Old mystery pro

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knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 1, 2008 - 03:40pm PT

I recently got my hands on a collection of old passive pro (peck crackers, clog nuts, etc) and included where some pieces that aren't stamped with size or manufacturer information. I'll try to post some pictures of the stuff I'm stumped on. I'd greatly appreciate any hard information, or even vague speculation, as to the manufacturer of aforementioned mystery pro.

Assorted mystery nuts. The hex on the left greatly resembles a Colorado Nut hex that I have but it isn't stamped. The nut on the far right looks more or less exactly like one of the CLOG nuts I've got, but again isn't stamped. As for the two large nuts in the middle, I have no idea.

Odd aluminum I-beam choks. I'd love to know if these things where commercially available at some point or if someone made these in the garage.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Feb 1, 2008 - 03:43pm PT

Look 'em up right here:

http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/nutsstory.htm

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Feb 1, 2008 - 04:13pm PT

Colorado Nut Company (Bill Roos and Paul Sibley) made three sizes of I-beam nuts in the early 70s: 1.75", 3" and 4" as I recall (they were all about 2" placed sideways). Your I-beams look a lot like NutCo's, but I can't tell if they actually are.

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 04:19pm PT

Thanks Clint, I've been hitting the nut museum website pretty hard recently trying to ID stuff. I haven't found anything that closely resembles the mystery gear though.

If those I-beam chocks turn out to be Colorado Nut gear that would be cool. Any ideas when these puppies might have been on the market?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Feb 1, 2008 - 04:20pm PT

Here's a photo I posted earlier on the New Scanner -- Old Climbs thread, showing Steve Wunsch carrying 1.75" and 3" I-beams in 1971.

maldaly

Trad climber

Boulder, CO

Feb 1, 2008 - 04:23pm PT

That thing with a sling through it is Moac, one of the best nuts ever. I think it only came in one size. Tom Frost has used the basic profile of it in his Sentinel Nuts. http://frostworksclimbing.com/sentinel.html
Mal

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Feb 1, 2008 - 04:25pm PT

knieveltech:
If those I-beam chocks turn out to be Colorado Nut gear that would be cool. Any ideas when these puppies might have been on the market?

My best guess would be 1970-72. Their nuts improved on the Clog and Peck nuts that were available at the time, but NutCo's heyday drew to a close as Chouinard's hexentrics and tube chocks came along -- the next good idea.

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 04:30pm PT

Maldaly: thanks a ton, that's one off my list.

Chiloe: The I-beams in your picture look exactly like the chocks I have, I'd say you hit the nail on the head. Thanks!

Moof

Big Wall climber

A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon

Feb 1, 2008 - 06:02pm PT

Only ever seen one other Colorado nut, and it is still in frequent active use the the owner. It's one of those magic pieces that just finds a home on every pitch, and works great for an impromptu hammer for stubborn, lesser, nuts.

Any interest in selling them?

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 06:45pm PT

Not really. I just finished re-slinging them and plan on taking them for a test drive tomorrow. Once I'm done putting together a rack of old pro I'm going to hunt down some tights. I'm bringin lycra back!

bachar

Trad climber

Mammoth Lakes, CA

Feb 1, 2008 - 06:52pm PT

Charlie Porter used to make some pretty nice nuts....

Anybody still have any of those?

scuffy b

climber

Stump with a backrest

Feb 1, 2008 - 07:14pm PT

I had one of his cam hexes, but it was part of the rack that got
boosted out of my car in 75.
It was heavy.

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2008 - 09:48pm PT

So I took the I-beams out to the crag today. Finding a placement was a bit tricky but once I did I'm confident you'd have to tear down the crag to pull it out. Definitely keepers.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 2, 2008 - 10:07pm PT

My personal favorite home made was a nut fashioned by Marty Woerner that features the word ZONK stamped into the 1" aluminum hex stock.

Check out the Diamond C Ice Gear at Neptune's Thread for some funk!

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

sorry, just posting out loud.

Feb 2, 2008 - 11:05pm PT

"I'm bringin lycra back!"

armageddon isn't supposed to happen for a couple more years.

yep, definite sign of apocalypse, yep

MisterE

Social climber

My Inner Nut

Feb 3, 2008 - 11:00am PT

As long as you don't start wearing the "Old Mystery Lycra" ! :-O

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2008 - 08:55am PT

It looks like Moof's statement about I beams finding a placement on every pitch is spot on. They especially have a knack for fitting in funky crystal-lined cracks where nothing else on my rack wants to go.

thedogfather

climber

Midwest

Apr 18, 2008 - 09:05am PT

I remember carrying several of the blue CMI girders for Devils Tower decades ago. If you think hexes make a lot of noise on a rack, you should have heard those things.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 18, 2008 - 10:54am PT

Moof:
Only ever seen one other Colorado nut, and it is still in frequent active use the the owner. It's one of those magic pieces that just finds a home on every pitch, and works great for an impromptu hammer for stubborn, lesser, nuts.

kneiveltech:
It looks like Moof's statement about I beams finding a placement on every pitch is spot on. They especially have a knack for fitting in funky crystal-lined cracks where nothing else on my rack wants to go.

Recently discovered another old photo (1970) of Colorado NutCo founder Paul Sibley, climbing with his gear.

Doug Robinson

Trad climber

Santa Cruz

Apr 18, 2008 - 12:02pm PT

Your first photos won't open here, for some reason. But since Malcolm nailed one piece as a MOAC, I gotta chime in.

I've had a MOAC on my rack since 1967. Quite simply the best piece ever. The rounded shape comes from being sandcast, which gives it a "human-feel" esthetic. Heard once what the word meant, but to me it's always stood for "Most Obvious Artificial Chockstone." I get a tad ritualistic about it, feeling like a climb isn't truly protected until I have begun placing it.

The MOAC was definitely our main model when Tom Frost and I designed Stoppers. And I find it very interesting that decades later when he came out with Sentinel Nuts -- and I won't leave the ground without a full set (see, the curves have gone too far. They cam in place nicely, but they get way too stuck) -- Frost returned to the steeper angles of the MOAC.

I once soloed halfway up the standard route on Pingora to retrieve the MOAC after a client couldn't get it out.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 18, 2008 - 12:16pm PT

Doug -- the MOAC used to be one of those place-on-just-about-every-pitch pieces of gear for me, when climbing Eldorado in the early 70s. Later, Bill Forest used the same taper in two sizes of Foxheads, one of them blue plastic. Those became favorite pieces as well.

Here's a blowup of the NutCo I-beam on Sibley's rack, from my photo upthread.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 18, 2008 - 12:18pm PT

Does MOAC stand for something? Don't think I ever knew the answer.

scuffy b

climber

up the coast from Woodson

Apr 18, 2008 - 12:42pm PT

Funny thing about the MOAC.
After I started using Stoppers, I didn't like
the shape of the MOAC so much, and filed it
down so it had the Stopper angles.

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2008 - 12:47pm PT

DR: Your first photos won't open here, for some reason.

Yeah, my web server is temporarily offline. The pics will come back once I reboot it, maybe later today. As far as the MOAC goes, I've reslung it and have been contemplating adding it to my rack, I'm not sure how well it'll function in quartzite/meta-sandstone/quartz conglomerate though.

Doug Robinson

Trad climber

Santa Cruz

Apr 18, 2008 - 12:51pm PT

MOAC does stand for or mean something. I made a point of asking when I was in Sheffield. Now I've forgotten. May have it written in a notebook somewhere...

Funny about the Stopper taper. While I insist on carrying the MOAC and the Frost Sentinels, I also mix in a few of the classic Stoppers. Seems a useful assortment. Or maybe just an old crusty overdoin' the CYA...

I also had a few of those I-Beam things for awhile. Monsterously heavy, tho, so I quit carrying them.

And Foxheads: could never get my sense of security around a slipppery plastic nut.

Doug Robinson

Trad climber

Santa Cruz

Apr 18, 2008 - 12:57pm PT

The MOAC worked for me in every rock I've tried -- most, by now.

I sling it and all my bigger pieces with 9 mm dynamic rope. Not accessory cord, but pieces of old lead rope. I figure it works like a minor version of a screamer, lowering the peak impact force a bit on my top piece. Thus I hope it nudges my system toward not breaking the piece or the rock it's placed in.

rockanice

climber

new york

Apr 18, 2008 - 03:23pm PT

Preparing to climb Little Fingers on Roger's Slide (Rock) on Lake George July 1973. This photo was a copycat of The Robbin's photos with his gear neatly laid out on a picnic table before the Nose and Salathe.
My second season, I'm in the middle.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Apr 18, 2008 - 03:32pm PT

Looks like the "A" team.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, Ca

Apr 18, 2008 - 03:56pm PT

Far as I could tell, even the Nut Museum doesn't have a set of these:

Leeper Z Nutz.

Ha. I should sling those babys up and take 'em climbing. They ring nicely as they dangle together.

Ed Bannister

Mountain climber

Riverside, CA

Apr 18, 2008 - 07:48pm PT

Hi Kris!

Leeper Zs also on another thread today, I have a set somewhere too.

As for MOAC, were they English??

I have a wired MOAC that is a solid round tube, never seen one of those since, and the nuts I never used as the taper was so fast that they were hard to seat... ie i would rather fix a piece than have it fall out.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Apr 18, 2008 - 08:15pm PT

MOAC = "MOuntain ACtivities"

from

http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/nutsstory.htm

"Ellis Brigham, owner of a chain of outdoor shops in UK who sponsored the die cast first production run, also owned a climbing equipment import company, Mountain Activities. Therefore the name MOAC was chosen for
this nut, that many British and American climbers still carry them for sentimental reasons."

MOAC on left, acorn on right

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Apr 19, 2008 - 01:14am PT

John,

I've only seen Charlie's double slider nuts and bashies, would love to other gear he made if anyone has some of it.

Ksolem, you'll be making Stephane drool over that collection of the little AntiZtons - very nice. I think he only has a couple.

And Clint, sometimes I get the impression that of all the gear in the Nut Museum that the MOACs are what Stephane treasures most of all.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 19, 2008 - 08:01am PT

Clint, you've cleared up that ancient MOAC mystery in my mind.

Some day I should dig out that box of old hardware in my attic, and see if there's anything worth photographing.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Apr 19, 2008 - 02:48pm PT

Start digging - inquiring minds want to know...

Doug Robinson

Trad climber

Santa Cruz

Apr 19, 2008 - 08:00pm PT

Now that I see the opening photo (thanks!) that MOAC is way different from mine. On mine every edge is rounded at about 1/4" radius. Likewise the top of the nut is milled away between the two holes so that the rope sits partway down, recessed into the head. The look of it is strikingly different, feeling like it was shaped by hand rather than sawed off of bar stock like that MOAC in the photo, all Stoppers, etc.

The article Clint referenced says the first model was carved out of balsa wood. So if that balsa MOAC was pressed into wet sand and aluminum was poured in, you'd get the nut I have.

Clint, thanks for that article!

Very lively and knowledgable. I learned a lot. Climbed on pretty much every one of the Clogs and Pecks in the late 60s and early 70s. I still have one knurled Peck here.

And my prize piece of hardware: a nut from the Snowdon Railway.
Dennis Hennek gave it to me after picking it up from the tracks.
It's hanging on a piece of hemp sling, over the fireplace.

Note to self: buy digital camera. I would love to share photos of this stuff with you guys.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 20, 2008 - 12:13pm PT

Here are some Clog I-beams along with other early nuts bought in the early 70's.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 21, 2008 - 12:03pm PT

healyje:
Start digging - inquiring minds want to know...

One or two oddities lurked at the bottom of that box in my attic. Here's one I'd forgotten
about: the first "screamer"? This was a Bill Forrest design, early 70s. As I recall Bill's
story, he put a lot of development effort into this idea. I haven't taken it apart, but
my recollection is that the principle was more complicated than just ripping stitches.

Anybody else use these things, or test them out?

Double D

climber

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:36pm PT

Bump for way cool thread. Anyone have pictures of the machine nuts with a sling n knot through them that the Brits used to use in the early 70's?

I remember making my first "Porter Cam" with a grinder and a block of aluminum. It was sorta like a hexicentric but the smaller side was rounded and cammed.

Forrest screamer???...Never even knew!

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:59pm PT

I need to take a pic, but I was wordering if anyone knows about a chock that was stamped ec. I found it at the top the Black Wall at Donner, probably 20 years ago. It was a straight tapered aluminum stopper with a swaged cable loop.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 21, 2008 - 04:27pm PT

Double D:
Forrest screamer???...Never even knew!

Must have been an idea ahead of its time. I don't remember hearing much about Forrest's
version, unlike the later idea of screamers.

Also pre-screamers, I once dropped by John Bouchard's place in North Conway when he was
testing a new shock-absorbing device, using a tree and cement bucket as his setup. The
shock-absorber was judged successful when he could catch a 20-foot drop of the cement
bucket with a runner made of shoelace.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 21, 2008 - 04:32pm PT

I didn't have the concept of saving things that might become museum pieces, BITD, so this
lovely Dolt piton got used on a number of A4s. The steel seemed to be tougher than
Chouinard's chrome moly.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 21, 2008 - 06:46pm PT

There was such a thing as a Holubar piton, at least that's what it says on the top
piece here. The other two say Stubai. I'm not sure what these were designed for, but
I used to think they might work as soft-rock bolts. Apparently I never tried out that theory.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 21, 2008 - 10:34pm PT

The Fall Arrestor was a Bill Forrest original I am pretty sure. Kevlar back strap and lots of strands of some miracle elastomeric compound. Way overdesigned compared to the sewn technology in the Yates' versions.

I had my one and only test ride during the FA of the Central Scrutinizer. I had exited Tribal Rite and set up a super exposed bolt belay on the very prow of the Nose. Above curved a thin expanding flake for about thirty feet and then a little, swirled crease coughed up a #3 and #4 RP which I set up. Forrest first, Yates Screamer beneath, and bravely worked my way up a series of overlaps culminating in an American Tourister with a long medium Bug neatly driven behind it! Jay Ladin craned his neck and was none too happy to track the dislodged scraps of rock within reach down in the sandchair.
I got into second steps and my entire vacation plans changed to air travel as the suitcase spit me out. I crossed my arms and went into a very slow roll as it all compressed and remember hearing the horrid ripping sound and feeling the rope quiver under load while upside down. Suddenly it all settled down and I righted myself and looked right across at Jay. "Whoa dude! Are you all right?" Yup, I'm okay. "Steve, I think I might be getting a bit old for this sort of thing!"
I looked back up to the awesome Aussie nuggets and fireworks shock absorbers that had stopped my big screamer at fifty rather than over one hundred and factor 2-!
I felt a bit old myself but this was a good route and the same Bug got an extra dose and didn't fail this time long enough to get a decent placement around the top latch and move by. The tattered and tweezed fall arrestors saved my bacon!

Ed Bannister

Mountain climber

Riverside, CA

Apr 21, 2008 - 10:55pm PT

Forrest actually did do screamers. and Bill did put a lot of effort into making them smooth in the process of absorbing energy, many falls duplicated on his tower built for that purpose.

It consisted of three different lengths of web made out a fiber that stretched one time only, backed up by nylon....

But, Chiloe..

the pic of the screamer you supplied above, probably is not a Forrest.
I think you might want to double check,
peel back the Lycra cover and you will find a YATES tag where the webbing is sewn to itself. Yates sewed the clippable loop to hold it open along the axis of the web, so I am pretty confident this is a yates screamer

This is a rip the stitches out design, very dependable to absorb energy, but not real smooth either.

OK maybe this is a little too much gear info.
Ed

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 22, 2008 - 09:19am PT

But, Chiloe..

the pic of the screamer you supplied above, probably is not a Forrest.
I think you might want to double check, peel back the Lycra cover and you will find a
YATES tag where the webbing is sewn to itself. Yates sewed the clippable loop to hold it
open along the axis of the web, so I am pretty confident this is a yates screamer

I double checked, and Alpspitz is dead right. That is a photo of a Yates device. Sorry folks!
Bill Forrest described his new invention to me back in the 70s, I remember that part well.
Then finding the mystery pro in my attic the other day, I mistakenly guessed that's
what it was.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 22, 2008 - 09:23am PT

But here's an ID I'm more sure of, one of the original rounded-off MOACs that DR mentions upthread.
Based on a balsa wood prototype, you say? I guess that could explain the smoothed, almost organic shape.

nutstory

climber

Apr 25, 2008 - 02:49am PT

Bonjour,

Steve Grossman, these I-beams were not made by Clog but by Parba. In 1968 Paul Seddon produced what were probably the first nuts for wide cracks, the Big-H, which were cut from an H-section extrusion. In 1970, Paul Seddon teamed up with Tony Howard and Alan Waterhouse at Troll. That is the reason why one can find Big-H stamped either Parba or Troll. It would be very interesting to know which name is stamped on your one-hole Wedges… Parba or Troll…? Parba would probably drive me crazy…

Stephane / Nuts Museum

Ghoulwe

Trad climber

Spokane, WA

Apr 25, 2008 - 07:34am PT

Chiloe:

If that is a Forrest product, I'm guessing it is an early proto of the Fall Arrest. Bill took a bunch of time (and money) developing it, I believe with Rose Manufacturing in Denver. He released it in the early '80's but it wasn't very well recieved - too much money for a one-time use product.

Under the sheath it had a program-stitched stretchy material that absorbed impact. I had the pleasure of testing them with him one day prior to the product release at Castle Rock in Boulder canyon. It was kinda' like falling on a bungee cord. Still got a couple of them in my home collection.

Eric

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 25, 2008 - 10:48am PT

Ghoulwe, thanks, I recall some of that story from conversations with Forrest. Unfortunately, as
Alpspitz noticed upthread, I mis-identified a Yates device as being the Forrest piece in question.

Does anybody have a photo of a real Forrest Fall Arrest?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 25, 2008 - 10:50am PT

No mystery about this venerable old pro.

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Apr 25, 2008 - 11:22am PT

Just a teaser for ya... don't get your hopes up.
They're not going anywhere.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 25, 2008 - 12:33pm PT

Quite a collection, Greg. They don't look very used!

I wish I'd kept all my old stuff, who knew?

Anyway, here's Colorado NutCo's version of I-beam. about 3" x 2".

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Apr 25, 2008 - 12:40pm PT

Thanks Larry - they are pretty much scratch free. Actually was sort of surprised to find that MOAC in that pile. I'd forgotten it was in there.

Figure Stephane is over having an anuerism about now. :-)

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 27, 2008 - 01:42pm PT

Well here's one from the vault for ID The middle nut has no stamp but by the cable girth and rounded corners I bet its the smallest Moac of them all. Stephane?!?

Shown with a #6 aid shorty and #6 1/2 standard Stopper for shape comparison.

So right about the Troll/Parba on the I-beams. Any other nuts released under the name of Parba? The one holers are all Clog stamped.

nick d

Trad climber

Apr 27, 2008 - 02:09pm PT

Prompted by this thread I just dug up my old Forrest catalog. It has a great treatise on nutwork and many illustrations of unique Titon placements.

Unfortunately, it is of 70's vintage so predates the Fall Arrest, as I believe they were called, so no photos.

Looking at it makes me wonder why it is not attained classic status like the 72 Chouinard catalog. I learned a lot from it as a kid. Somehow Bill just never had the cachet that the California boys had.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 27, 2008 - 02:28pm PT

BITD, Bill told a story about how he tested the Forrest wall hammer, which was the first of
its kind with a fiberglass handle (the middle one in this photo from Cascadeclimbers).

Wanting to be sure that the new hammer was durable, and also to reassure skeptical climbers, Bill
said that he chained a prototype (through its carabiner hole) to a post in his yard, then offered
the neighborhood kids -- he suggested it was a tough neighborhood -- $10 or something if they
could break the hammer simply by swinging it hard against the chain.

The only requirement was they had to keep count of how many swings each kid made, and log
those in a notebook so Bill would know how long it took to break. At the time of this story he
said the kids were working hard, 10,000 swings so far, but the hammer still hadn't broken.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 27, 2008 - 03:23pm PT

Steve, that middle nut of yours does look like the small wired MOAC. My partner used to carry
one of those things everywhere.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 27, 2008 - 03:32pm PT

I could never understand the limited size offerings early on from overseas. Gotta love that fat cable even though it put a lot of torque on the placements. I found my trusty Fall Arrestor, blown and resewn. The aidscreamers are my choice for clipping crap these days and much lighter!

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

Apr 27, 2008 - 04:35pm PT

Chiloe:

The last pic you posted (of the three hammers)...
The top one (the alpine hammer) has a sticker with the word 'Mjolnir'

You got me currious and I had to go look at mine.
The sticker is there but all the print is worn off.

Was not 'Mjolnir' the name of a European gear manufacturer as well ?

I was wondering:
Did Forrest work with other (larger) manufacturers in much the same way as Chouinard/InterAlp?

Raydog

Trad climber

Boulder Colorado

Apr 27, 2008 - 06:14pm PT

RE:
"I was wondering:
Did Forrest work with other (larger) manufacturers in much the same way as Chouinard/InterAlp?"

an interesting question...
wish I knew more about the (Bill) Forrest gear legacy

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 27, 2008 - 06:19pm PT

Mjolnir (also spelled Mjollnir) was the name of an enchanted hammer belonging to Thor,
the Norse thunder god. I secretly wondered whether Forrest thought of that name due to
its resurrection in the Marvel comic books. Naw, couldn't be.

Forrest's polygonal Mjollnir looked vaguely like the Marvel version, IMHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics);

And neither looks much like the historical representations of Mjolnir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mjolnir

Salamanizer

Trad climber

Vacaville Ca,

Aug 2, 2008 - 01:50am PT

How did I miss this thread?

A bit of an old thread but one worth bumping to the top of the heap from time to time.

So, here ya go. Here's some stuff I've accumulated over the years from various sources. See if you can identify it. Some easy, some not so much.

First up, a mistery nut I have.
No visable markings on the nut. I thought It might be an old Chounard, but doesn't match any of my other old Chounard nuts.

Another mystery nut. This one looks to be pretty modern.

Some interesting cams made by Edelrid.

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Aug 2, 2008 - 01:58am PT

First nut (wedge) may be a MOAC. Pre-stoppers.

Salamanizer

Trad climber

Vacaville Ca,

Aug 2, 2008 - 11:51am PT

Here's a "D" biner I bootied on a "not so well traveled" route in the Valley. Looked to have been there a while.

Next to a modern oval for size referance.
It's one of the biggest aluminum crabs I've seen.

Two old style Chouinard biners, just for fun.

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber

Yosemite

Aug 2, 2008 - 01:27pm PT

Salamanizer,

The first nut is a MOAC. They only came in one size.

Ken

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 16, 2008 - 11:05pm PT

I had the honor of sorting through a big box of old climbing gear for my boss last summer. I started by just emptying the box and spreading it out, then taking a picture. Unfortunately this is the only one I have of most of the gear.
What I'm most curious about is the nuts in the bottom leftish of the picture they look like they're used in a similar way to a hex. It's like a normal nut with two nubs from each side. The nubs run the length of the nut, but it you were to hold the but in front of you, the nubs are offset vertically

Also of interest are the biners in the bottom right, to the left of the nuts. The biners have a bar that crosses their axis, and spins freely. When I asked about it I was told that they're for making a carabiner brake, but I could never ID who made them.

For the fun of it, you're more than welcome to try you hand at IDing anything else in the picture. I have closer pics of some things, so feel free to ask. Thanks go out to the nut museum, without them I never would have been able to identify as much as I did

Salamanizer

Trad climber

Vacaville Ca,

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:33am PT

Those hexes are made by Clog I believe. I have a couple that are identical accept slung with cord. Early to mid 70's I believe. Not certain.

What the hell is that aluminum nut looking thing just above them?

nick d

Trad climber

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:38am PT

If we're looking at the same thing it is a Forrest PinBin? I think thats the right name.

edit: I don't think I'm looking at the same item!

Salamanizer

Trad climber

Vacaville Ca,

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:42am PT

Not the pin bin, (though I was wondering about that too) the thingy just to the right. Looks like a square with some grooves and a hole in the top.

nutstory

climber

Oct 17, 2008 - 03:19am PT

Bonjour Basilisk & Salamanizer!

The nuts on the bottom left are Clog Cogs! The one alone just above them is also a Clog Cog, but it is pictured upside-down. These nuts hit the market in 1976 and had to be the serious British competitor for the Chouinard Hexentrics. In fact, unfortunately for Clog, they never became popular. The original sets consisted of the sizes 1 to 10. The sizes 1 to 5 were available either on wire or on rope; the sizes 6 to 10 were only available on rope. These five bigger sizes were too much heavy so, in a second generation (the ones on your photo), these sizes were made shorter, with two holes on the top, and just one hole on the bottom. The early longer sizes are rare…

If I had understood how to post a photo on this forum, I would have showed you a couple of good pics of these nuts…

The three blue hexes on the bottom are C.M.I. Hexachoks (no “c” before the “k”), made circa 1976.

Stephane / Nuts Museum

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:29am PT

Hi Stephane, thanks a bunch for your email. Here's a copy of the pic you set me

The hexachoks are interesting too- I could never find any info on those. Never suspected they were that old. Are they the first anodized chock?

Chris2

Trad climber

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:52am PT

Damn, those chocks don’t look used at all.

The Colorado nut is an awesome piece of gear. (this may have already been stated, didn’t read each post) However…

The “fins” will snap right off, if the nut is placed incorrectly.

scuffy b

climber

On the dock in the dark

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:03pm PT

Not the first anodized chock, but maybe the first good anodized chock.
Dolt was anodizing chocks much earlier than this, spidernuts, trunuts, etc.
Most of his stuff didn't have a great shape.

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 18, 2008 - 11:33pm PT

More goodies from Stéphane!

* Clog Cogs 2: The first advertisement for the Clog Cogs, published in Climber and Rambler in August 1976.

* CMI Hexachoks 1: CMI Hexachoks and Wired Hexachoks. The 2 wedges are prototype Wallnuts designed by CMI for Royal Robbins

Stéphane, any idea what's going on with that up-ended hexachok on the left? It looks like it's only been hollowed out halfway. Just a different design they were playing with?

On the Cog photo it mentions stacking, something I hadn't even thought of when I played with them. It sort of an early Bluewater CocoNut in that respect. Stacking nuts has really fallen off these days.

I gotta say, I am supremely jealous of all this info! Keep it coming please!

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:32pm PT

MORE!

"It is a real pleasure to “drive anybody mad” with all the info I can supply… so enjoy again!

The attached pic should answer your question about the CMI Hexachok. In fact all the Hexachoks were manufactured with a 1/8” web in the center. This page is an extract from the CMI catalog 1975!

If I am not mistaken, the Bluewater Coconuts were in fact made by the French company Simond in 1996 and known here as Camerocks. These nuts were never really popular in France. An earlier version of these nuts is the Simond Bicams (attached pic), made in 1986. The nuts with the red plastic sleeve can be stacked together, but not with the nuts with the blue plastic sleeve, and vice versa;

Stéphane"

It's pretty interesting that "I-beam technology" was being implemented even back then. I thought that was just a recent thing, thus why DMM obsesses over it so much

I was just thinking it strange that the concave side of the nuts was on the outside, but I just noticed the coconuts did the same. In fact I can't think of any other way to do it aside from the modern concave/convex nuts.

The Coconuts/camrocks were never popular in the states either. Regardless, I was thrilled to come across an ad for them in an old guidebook to North Conway. I was even more thrilled when I found the units themselves last summer

Chris2

Trad climber

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:39pm PT

Salamanizer (a few post back), they sure look a lot like

Supernuts.

"The nut, that always get stuck!"

(because the bottom is rounded, there is no way to "hammer" at it, with your nut tool)

Basilisk...interesting drawings. Very nice.

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:25am PT

Less Politics, more climbing history!

Stéphane is on a roll!

The original brochure for the camerocks:

And for the fun of it I scanned the ad in my Conway guidebook:

I also came across a Fish ad. Anyone know if there's a relation to the board favorite gear-maker?

And one more for Stéphane. I don't know if you collect ice gear, but This collection is largely unorganized:
The only one I know for sure is that Warthog second from the right. I have guesses one the rest, but it's up in the air. Got any clues?

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:56am PT

I don't recall the names, but remember seeing all those ice screws out in the wild on folks racks at one point or another.

Jello...?

Chris2

Trad climber

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:59am PT

into the "way back machine of my mind"

Snargs???

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Oct 21, 2008 - 12:02pm PT

The one on the right is a Lowe Snarg.Then the warthog.The black one dunno,but the clip in area looks a lot like some Salewa screws I have.The next is the Chouinard standard screw.The wire one might be a Simond,but not at all sure.

Chris2

Trad climber

Oct 21, 2008 - 12:30pm PT

Thanks Tomcat. My mind is still intact!

(very pleased I never took a fall on one of those things, as I recall, they would only be a last resort placement)

nutstory

climber

Oct 21, 2008 - 01:13pm PT

I am sincerely sorry but I have very little knowledge about ice climbing equipment. My main field of research has always been artificial chockstones and I must confess that, believe it or not, I have never climbed ice faces. Nevertheless, I do have some treasures at home: among them, a Peck Terrordactyl (axe hammer) and old home made ice screws, made in Great Britain the early sixties…!

The blacksmith John Brailsford used the long bolts that hold the chairs to the sleepers of the railways to make his ice screws. He cut off the heads and made a special, thin, oval punch which he used to pierce the bolt. He then drilled the small hole until it would take a single karabiner. They were cadmium plated at Rolls Royce by his engineer friend and were highly successful, if a bit heavy. They were considerably stronger than Pete Crew’s screws which had a welded eye to take several karabiners.

The pic is coming soon… On the top, the ice screws made by John Brailsford (who created the first purpose designed nut) and, on the bottom, the ones made by Pete Crew.

Stéphane / Nuts Museum

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Oct 21, 2008 - 01:27pm PT

On the ice gear above... not sure what the left end one is, but second from the left looks like a Coonyard ice screw, then an old US Army Ice Pition. The one on the right end is a Snarg (made by Lowe?).

scuffy b

climber

On the dock in the dark

Oct 21, 2008 - 01:36pm PT

Did it seem to take forever to place a Snarg?

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Oct 21, 2008 - 01:41pm PT

Basilisk,

> I also came across a Fish ad. Anyone know if there's a relation to the board favorite gear-maker?

Yes, Russ Walling = Fish.
http://fishproducts.com/
He has done some really cool ads over the years, and lots of really good gear as well. Plus he's a master of the too-true critique with great humor, climbing, and other stuff. Most of us would just like to be good at one of those things!

Ain't no flatlander

climber

Oct 21, 2008 - 01:46pm PT

"Did it seem to take forever to place a Snarg?"

Place? no. Remove? Yes. About the same as Warthogs but they held better (though I hear the latter is better in chalk).

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Oct 21, 2008 - 02:03pm PT

That was my experience on the Snarg as well...not that bad to place, took a while to take out.

scuffy b

climber

On the dock in the dark

Oct 21, 2008 - 02:05pm PT

How were they placed? I assumed they went in and out as a screw.
It appears that the pitch of the threads would mean a lot more
turning of the screw than with a Salewa screw.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Oct 21, 2008 - 02:13pm PT

The leftmost ice screw I believe is a Marwa "coathanger" type, an untrustworthy design which (unless I'm mixing up old stories) was implicated in the death of Dan Doody in Huntington Ravine.

Chris2

Trad climber

Oct 21, 2008 - 02:15pm PT

The snarg was hammered in. Obviously not used on water ice.

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 21, 2008 - 02:17pm PT

Here's the pic Stephane promised, as well as his quoted post for ease of reading:

"The blacksmith John Brailsford used the long bolts that hold the chairs to the sleepers of the railways to make his ice screws. He cut off the heads and made a special, thin, oval punch which he used to pierce the bolt. He then drilled the small hole until it would take a single karabiner. They were cadmium plated at Rolls Royce by his engineer friend and were highly successful, if a bit heavy. They were considerably stronger than Pete Crew’s screws which had a welded eye to take several karabiners.

The pic is coming soon… On the top, the ice screws made by John Brailsford (who created the first purpose designed nut) and, on the bottom, the ones made by Pete Crew."

Those screws are pretty trippy. Looks like they're just lag bolts with a holes

Edit: This goes a little upstream, but if anyone has any Clog Cogs they'd be willing to sell, I've got a buddy looking to buy. Thanks!

Chris2

Trad climber

Oct 21, 2008 - 02:30pm PT

damn, that top (blue colored) eye screw isn't even drop forged

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Oct 21, 2008 - 02:39pm PT

Dig that photo above... I have one of those Terrordactyl knucklebuster axes and a couple of that general type of ice screw. Can't even imagine trusting one of those eyebolts with your life.

Russ S.

climber

Seattle, WA

Oct 21, 2008 - 02:59pm PT

Not to side track the thread, but help me with the climbing shoes in Basilisk's photos of gear spread on the red floor and in the display case.

Those were my first climbing shoes bought in San Diego in '78, which I've always remembered as labeled "RR's". This confused me because why use the same name as the earlier generation Blue/red RR's. When I had them resoled once, the guy in the shop insisted they were PA's. Clearly a strong resemblance to the bright green shoe, but I'm sure they were labeled RR's. What does the leather pack logo say on the side of the shoe?

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 21, 2008 - 03:10pm PT

I'm not sure myself, Russ. Here's a better shot to jog some memories:

Closeup:

Edit: Better closeup

duncan

Trad climber

London, UK

Oct 21, 2008 - 05:32pm PT

Basilisk, I'll have a look for Clog Cogs. I'm sure I have some somewhere. Alternatively, a post on a UK website might be productive.

Any ideas about this? It says BI-CAPS on it.

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Oct 21, 2008 - 06:37pm PT

The left-hand ice screw of those posted by Stephane is almost certainly a Marwa "coat hanger". Some tests were done on them in the 1970s, which showed that they were virtually useless as anchors.

They weren't bad for opening wine bottles, though.

scuffy b

climber

On the dock in the dark

Oct 21, 2008 - 07:22pm PT

Russ S

The two shoes were the same.
Galibier PAs (the red/black ones) had lost market share to EBs,
and they had stopped making the Robbins Boot.
The green PAs were stickier than the red/black ones, but most
people seemed to think they still didn't work as well as EBs.
Robbins and Galibier had connections at the time, RR had name
recognition, why not crank out two shoe models for the price
of one?

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 29, 2008 - 05:06pm PT

I miss this thread, so I'm bringing it back.

It's not exactly pro, but I'm curious if anyone can ID this shoe:

There are no visible markings on it, and it's built like a ton of bricks. Its stiffer than any shoe I've seen nowadays, I can barely put a bend in the sole. Definitely board lasted. Any clues?

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Oct 29, 2008 - 05:10pm PT

Basilisk,

That shoe is an EB, with blue leather added by the user.
aka EB Super Gratton, the shoe which ushered in the climbing of many 5.11s in Yosemite starting in 1971.

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Oct 29, 2008 - 06:24pm PT

That would explain the less-than-phenomenal threadwork around the blue then. Was it common to add different colored leather to shoes?

Jaybro

Social climber

wuz real!

Oct 29, 2008 - 06:34pm PT

Yes, almost universal in some abrasive areas, like vedauwoo and josh.

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 02:34pm PT

This thread is awesome. I am having a blast drooling over all of the antique pro. Speaking of which I've made a few additions to my collection recently, I'll try to post pictures this evening..

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 06:22pm PT

Clog nuts and hexes

Colorado Nut Company hexes, with a single clog hex that managed to sneak into the group

EB Super Grattons, mint in bag, they're even my size!

Forrest stuff. Unsure what each type of piece is called.

The absolute pride and joy of my active rack, my #3 and #4 Colorado Nut Company I-beam chocks. These things are absolutely magical. So much so I'm in the process of fabricating replacements so I can retire the antiques.

No clue on these guys, any ideas?

Likewise, no idea on this one. No markings on the piece.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v703/211/39/1055488021/n1055488021_195721_6958.jpg

Campbell saddlewedges

SMC hexes and camlocks

Forrest titons?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 24, 2008 - 06:27pm PT

knievel, could one or both of your "no clue" wired wedges be Forrest Foxheads?
He made something like that, a smaller MOAC shape built around a copperhead.
The single, flexible wire worked well in placements -- I thought they were great.

scuffy b

climber

On the dock in the dark

Nov 24, 2008 - 08:30pm PT

I think the copperhead-inside-the-wedge is the Foxhead,
can't remember the name of the squashed copperheads.
FWIW, the only time I've seen a copperhead placed, it was used
as a nut.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 24, 2008 - 08:35pm PT

can't remember the name of the squashed copperheads.

This just came to me -- weren't they called "arrowheads"?

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Nov 24, 2008 - 08:36pm PT

Yes - Arrowheads it is.

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Nov 24, 2008 - 09:20pm PT

From the Climber's Sourcebook, by Steven and Anne Schneider, 1976
Forrest Chocks

scuffy b

climber

On the dock in the dark

Nov 24, 2008 - 09:26pm PT

Wouldn't that be Bob & Anne Schneider?

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Nov 24, 2008 - 09:34pm PT

Not according to the cover of the book...more correctly, it should be "Steven" Schneider. Apparently of New Hampshire.

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Nov 24, 2008 - 09:38pm PT

Clog hexes...looks like a home swag job... check out the size of the cable in that big one (dime for scale).

Clog hex heads...

The whole assortment of Forrest stuff, plus one small Clog hex.

Closer shot of Arrowheads and Foxheads. Showroom fresh!

Arrowheads with Foxhead

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 24, 2008 - 09:47pm PT

FWIW, the only time I've seen a copperhead placed, it was used
as a nut.

I think that was their original purpose -- hammering copperheads in as bashies was a secondary development, though it quickly became their main use.

I carried a set of copperheads for a while just as nuts for free climbing protection -- they seemed to do the job.

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Nov 24, 2008 - 09:54pm PT

Check out this Troll nut... it's nearly just a cube shape. Barely any slope to the sides at all.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 24, 2008 - 10:40pm PT

Bill Forrest, as an accomplished clean aid climber, was the first to offer two cable lengths in his products knowing that three or four extra inches of height can sometimes make or break a reach problem and that the weight savings was also a consideration. He sure made some money on Copperheads until the cheapskates like me discovered the boating supply.

Blakey

Trad climber

Newcastle UK

Nov 25, 2008 - 03:59pm PT

Regarding the EBs, used and mint.

Towards the end of the 70s EBs went from being the shoe of choice, to somethingh no one would touch. The reason being that they went from a glued on separate sole and rand, to a completely moulded sole and rand unit. These were made of a harder rubber and were nowhere near as useable as their predesessors, which pretty much ruled the roost on both sides of the Atlantic.

This almighty c*#k up with the soles coincided with the arrival of several other shoes (like the early blue Asolos) which presaged in turn the arrival of Fires.

The EBs in the photo are 'late models' I think.

Best,

Steve

Chris2

Trad climber

Nov 25, 2008 - 04:03pm PT

The people I know that have those Colorado Nuts...loves them. Wish I had a metal shop!

knieveltech

Social climber

Raleigh NC

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2008 - 05:07pm PT

I happen to have access to a metal shop and have found a source for 6061 T6 aluminum I-beam of the correct dimensions. Once I get the prototype replicas fabricated I'm sending them off to be pull tested. Assuming they perform as expected I'd be willing to make sets for folks.

Chris2

Trad climber

Nov 25, 2008 - 05:10pm PT

Cool...email me direct I will buy some!

Basilisk

Ice climber

New Hampshire

Nov 25, 2008 - 05:14pm PT

I'd buy some also!

Just another reason I love this thread. Thanks for sharing folks

scuffy b

climber

On the dock in the dark

Nov 25, 2008 - 05:54pm PT

There's a market for I-Beams???

couchmaster

climber

Mar 3, 2009 - 11:56am PT

Gear bump for the gear whores. BTW, I have some EB'S I sewed leather onto which I'll try to get a pic on. The thin canvas usually got eaten through before the sole if you did any kind of sharp crack or offwidth jamming. They were very expensive shoes then, I think @ $30 a pair or so if memory serves me right.

anees

climber

Oct 30, 2010 - 09:03pm PT

Bump...

Does anyone recognize this nut?

For more info and photos, plus bigger photo size, you can go to the original post over at MP (http://www.mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/can_anyone_id_this_old_mystery_nut/106943278#a_106943375)

This nut was dug out of the back of the Stanford Alpine Club's gear shed... is it some sorta neat old-school California original?

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Oct 30, 2010 - 11:05pm PT

Alex,

I agree - it looks homemade. Looks like milling marks on the largest face.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Oct 31, 2010 - 01:46am PT

What does the top of the nut look like?

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Oct 31, 2010 - 02:46am PT

The images are on the MP link:

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Oct 31, 2010 - 03:01am PT

Yup, homemade for sure!

mike m

Trad climber

black hills

Dec 16, 2011 - 11:56am PT

This is a cool thread.

crunch

Social climber

Feb 24, 2013 - 04:43pm PT

Out of the sad, and massive clean-up operation to dispose of Jenny Martin's piles-o-stuff in her garage:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2066314&tn=0&mr=0

Salvaged a handful of old gear. Evidently stored on one of the coasts for some time, much corroded, far too gone and decrepit for any climbing use, but a few interesting items:

Some old Chouinard "Regular" Hexentrics and a couple wired stoppers of about the same vintage.

And some alternative Hexagons/Regular Hexentrics. The larger, #6 Eigers are shaped, like the early Chouinard Hexentrics, to have a wider lower, bearing face, narrower upper, non-bearing face:

Colorado Nut Hexagon 1.5:

As well as an SMC Hexagon, which, like the Colorado Nut Hex, is an exact hexagon in profile:

And a couple mystery nuts:

Here's a hexagon. A true hexagon, again. No markings except a lengthwise seam of some kind on one of the non-bearing faces:

And, maybe easier, an unmarked nut, possibly a baby Moac? (EDIT: It's a Gendarme! Thanks Steve Grossman).

The mystery gear might be Colorado Nut Co. related, since Jenny lived in the Chicken Coop for a while. A mystery why she would have these ancient relics, she'd have been a little kid when many of these were made. but, she sure seemed to not throw much away....

Maybe someone might even recognize these. Pale blue paint on some items. Also initials, maybe DCH, stamped on a nylon Foxhead?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 24, 2013 - 04:46pm PT

The last one is a Gendarme Nut.

The #6 is an Eiger for sure.

wivanoff

Trad climber

Feb 24, 2013 - 04:53pm PT

Here's a hexagon. A true hexagon, again. No markings except a lengthwise seam of some kind on one of the non-bearing faces:

It's not a seam. It's an extrusion mark from an imperfection in the extruding die and doesn't affect anything. The nut was cut from hex stock, holes drilled, ends tapered.

crunch

Social climber

Feb 24, 2013 - 05:10pm PT

Wow, Steve. An answer within, what, 3 minutes? Uncanny!

Never heard of Gendarme Nuts, but I have now. A quick search reveals they were made near Seneca Rocks, hence Gendarme name.

I'm seeing a parallel here with the early Chouinard pitons. As Chouinard modified and streamlined their early pitons manufacturing, other manufacturers were driven out of business (or just lost interest). Seems like a similar process with the early nuts. The larger sizes were easy enough to make and many folks tried their hand: Eiger, SMC, Colorado Nut Co.

But Chouinard's/Frost's development of "Regular Hexentrics" and then the even more sophisticated Poly-whatsit Hexentrics was enough to make much of the domestic competition gave up.

Cheers,
Crusher

EDIT: Thanks for the clarification, wivanoff!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 24, 2013 - 05:19pm PT

Plenty of information about Gendarme Nuts here...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1397992&tn=20

I have a full set to post up soon.

The market dominance of Chouinard Equipment definitely chased a lot of small shapers on to other things.

Tom and Yvon understood that a full range of sizes was just as valuable in a selection of nuts as it was with a rack of pitons. Why this idea didn't have traction in Britain is a mystery.

Most small businesses aren't willing to spring for the sort of big extrusions necessary to compete. Eiger was willing to have their own extrusions made to compete with Chouinard in the larger sizes.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Apr 18, 2013 - 03:36am PT

I acquired this little nut yesterday, and I would appreciate some help from you to identify it. It does not have any famous logo stamped on it. After cleaning it a little, it seems that I can see an “E” stamped on one face. As it does not seem to be “home made”, I am sure that someone here will be easily able to put a name to this “E Nut”. Marty, Steve…?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 20, 2013 - 02:55pm PT

Stephane- Did that come from a European source or North America?

If NA I would guess that it is an MSR wedge but I don't have one to confirm that. The maker had a power swager and did a neat job on the nut so I suspect that it was in production.

Anybody else have a clue?

tansofun

climber

Long Beach, CA

Apr 21, 2013 - 09:52am PT

Anybody know what this is? Looks like a camming nut of some sort. No identifying marks, found it in a gear shop in Kathmandu. Sorry for the poor phone pic.

Rick A

climber

Boulder, Colorado

Apr 21, 2013 - 10:36am PT

Missed this the first around, but it's a fun thread. Read the link to the Needle Sports history of nuts linked on the first page and this caught my eye:

Let's come back to England where, in a small village in the Peak District, Mark Vallance, creator of Wild Country, improved considerably the most classic pyramidal nut. "Rare are the cracks showing the same profile as the nuts". Starting from this statement, in 1978, Mark Vallance thought of changing the two large flat sides to create the maximum possible point contact with the rock. Using some Forrest Foxheads as prototypes he tried a large number of combinations to obtain finally the first curved nut, marketed early in 1979 under the name of Rock. No matter what the angle formed by both sides of a crack, the Rocks have always a three-point contact instead of only two for the pyramidal nut. By coincidence, at about the same time, Geoff Birtles, the Editor of High Mountain Sports magazine, worked with Tom Proctor on a closely similar design. They offered Mark Vallance the name Rocks which was what their device was called.

A curved stopper was made by Richard Harrison and John Long in Richard’s basement in Upland, California sometime around 1974-1975. They took a file to a Chouinard number 7 stopper and gave it into a curved shape, and named it the “Banana Nut”. I was skeptical about it when they showed it to me, but found that it worked well.

Wild Country later patented the curved stopper and when Chouinard brought out its own version, Wild Country sued for patent infringement. Around 1983, Dick Leversee, who was working for Chouinard, called me to confirm the existence of the Banana Nut and I became a witness in the lawsuit.

I testified that the curved design was already in use by Richard, John and I , a fact that was legally significant and could have invalidated the patent under the doctrine called “prior art.”

Richard gave Chouinard’s lawyers the Banana Nut for use in the litigation, but he never got it back. I think the lawsuit was settled out of court, but I am not sure.

Around the same time, Richard and John also filed down a Chouinard Hexentric, giving it a curved side which allowed it to act like a cam.

tansofun

climber

Long Beach, CA

Apr 21, 2013 - 11:15am PT

Reply to my own question, it looks like a wire tri-cam.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 21, 2013 - 01:25pm PT

Wired variation on the theme of an Abalakov cam made from a pulley wheel and not likely a commercial release.

Ricky- Sounds like a colossal waste of money trying to enforce a patent on a nut shape like that but I guess they thought that they had something original.

More questions for Yvon once I get a chance to sit down with him. Tom was gone by then.

SavageMarmot

Trad climber

Nederland, CO

Apr 21, 2013 - 03:21pm PT

Chouinard Stopper:

What size is this? The cord holes are 9.3mm and it measures 21.3mm wide and 32.5mm long at the top. Pre 80's?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 21, 2013 - 03:33pm PT

You need to post a picture with a Stopper of known size nearby for comparison.

Several generations of flat-sided Chouinard Stoppers to consider before they switched to the curved shape.

Stoppers #1-#4 on an open wire and #5- #8 slung in the early seventies. 8 sizes.

Tom Frost photo of Yvon Chouinard wearing his wares.

Stoppers #1- #8 1/2 available on a wire and #4 -#8 1/2 available slung. 16 sizes.

Stoppers #1-#13 available wired some sizes slung. 13 sizes.

SM- Yours is a #7 from the 13 size range set. The last two shots are from the 1978 Great Pacific Ironworks catalog.

SavageMarmot

Trad climber

Nederland, CO

Apr 21, 2013 - 04:00pm PT

Here's a next gen #10 stopper for reference.

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Apr 21, 2013 - 04:15pm PT

#11 Stopper

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 21, 2013 - 04:19pm PT

It looks on closer inspection that you have a older style #7 with undersize cord. Perfect fingerlock size if you have big paws.

SavageMarmot

Trad climber

Nederland, CO

Apr 21, 2013 - 04:51pm PT

My gut says you nailed it. When were these made?

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Apr 21, 2013 - 05:33pm PT

If it's a 1972 first gen stopper and is a #7 it will measure 3/4" by 1-1/4" long

A bit later the #11 is 7/8" which comes up closer to your dimension.

Is your dimension across the narrow aspect or the wide side?

Stopper dimensions were published measured on the narrower of the two widths in the 72 catalog.

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Apr 21, 2013 - 06:47pm PT

You guys are just saying it a a #7 Stopper cause that's what it says on it. LOL

At least that's what I see. ps, nice post Steve G!

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Apr 21, 2013 - 07:02pm PT

OK you've forced me to go open the junk drawer and get the dial calipers out.

2 samples of #7s 0.84 and 0.85

So the catalog dimensions of 0.75 aren't correct.

Here's another mystery.

I have a #8 that's 1.18 and has the oval hollow extrusion.

This one isn't in the 72 catalog, but I'm sure it was purchased around then.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Apr 22, 2013 - 02:27am PT

Stephane- Did that come from a European source or North America?

Steve- I am sorry, I am not sure of the origin of this little nut. Maybe it was found somewhere in North America. It has a rather similar shape as an old Chouinard Stopper, but it is mounted on a thinner wire.

And... as you mention the Abalakov cam, I am very proud to show you the full set of Grivel Bikov. It took me a long long time to complete the set...

Rick A- Thank you for sharing the fascinating story of the Banana Nut.

bhilden

Trad climber

Mountain View, CA

Apr 22, 2013 - 03:25am PT

I agree with TGT. The Chouinard stopper in question looks like a first generation #7. Of course, the numbering has changed over the years and I have no clue what it translates into today's versions.

tansofun

climber

Long Beach, CA

Apr 23, 2013 - 06:52am PT

Wired variation on the theme of an Abalakov cam made from a pulley wheel and not likely a commercial release.

Thanks Steve! Learning more about old gear every day.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 25, 2013 - 12:16am PT

Just for fun some Abalakov-style flywheel cams brought back from a Russian exchange expedition by Chuck Kroger and now in the YCA collection.

Roots

Mountain climber

SoCal

Jul 3, 2013 - 05:05pm PT

Tansofun (my friend) was over in Nepal and bought some souvenirs for us like the one he posted above.

My box of fun just arrived - only took 2 months to get here due a stop by Home Land Security. Here is one item. The Sherpa told him it was an old ice screw.....what do you think it was used for? - Maybe anchoring ladders?

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Jun 30, 2014 - 01:51pm PT

ok so the pictures I posted above didn't interest anyone LOL - it looks much nicer now all cleaned up, but how about this cam? What is known about them?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jun 30, 2014 - 04:31pm PT

Abalakov (also from a set of 4) obtained during the same surreptitious negotiations as Kroger's.

Still in use...

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 08:29am PT

....made by Camp. Anyone know anything about them?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 09:08am PT

....made by Camp. Anyone know anything about them?

They should have been made by 'Bunk'.

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 03:16pm PT

^LOL that do seem sketchy! I guess that's why these are unused?

Well just curious if anyone knows what they are called, circa?

Thanks!

ClimbingOn

Trad climber

Sep 4, 2014 - 08:24pm PT

I recently got this gear sling with a lot of vintage gear I purchased. It looks homemade but the sewing looks professional. No identifying marks on it. Looks like a very early example of a multi-loop gear sling. I believe each "loop" was used for racking pitons. Anyone seen anything like this before?

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

extraordinaire

Sep 4, 2014 - 10:58pm PT

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 5, 2014 - 12:11am PT

Roots: your purple nuts are CAMP Pentanuts. They hit the market in 1985. Yours are a “second” generation. First generation doesn’t have lightening holes.

Trad climber

Sep 5, 2014 - 05:25am PT

Looks like something Forrest would create.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Sep 5, 2014 - 08:49am PT

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 5, 2014 - 09:29am PT

The SMC nut is a Quick-Taper Wedge.
The ABC Stone, (also called Gem or Gemstone) was made by Faces. Faces Designs on Mountains (Matlock) was the third British company (with Wild Country and HB Climbing Equipment) to produce cams in the nineties. Faces was jointly owned by Jim Ballard and his wife Alison Hargreaves, Ian Parsons and Ian Brown. Alison was a famous mountaineer. Her death on K2 and the Single European Market rules are probably the two main reasons why Faces went out of business.
At that time, they produced nuts and cams, as Gems, Pearls, Jewels, Tech Cads, Three Cam Cads, Four Cam Cads and Slugs…

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Sep 5, 2014 - 02:42pm PT

Thank you!!

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 6, 2014 - 12:10am PT

FortMentäl: I suspect that it might be CAMP as they marketed a rather similar cam in 1989, the Passe Par-Tout, also made in Korea.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 11, 2014 - 11:54pm PT

The ABC Stone, (also called Gem or Gemstone) was made by Faces. Faces Designs on Mountains (Matlock) was the third British company (with Wild Country and HB Climbing Equipment) to produce cams in the nineties. Faces was jointly owned by Jim Ballard and his wife Alison Hargreaves, Ian Parsons and Ian Brown. Alison was a famous mountaineer. Her death on K2 and the Single European Market rules are probably the two main reasons why Faces went out of business.
At that time, they produced nuts and cams, as Gems, Pearls, Jewels, Tech Cads, Three Cam Cads, Four Cam Cads and Slugs…

Shortly after posting on here some details about the British company Faces Designs On Mountains I was contacted by Ian Parsons who pointed out that the actual order of events rather contradicted the idea that Alison Hargreaves' death had in any way contributed to the the company's demise; its climbing hardware production had largely ceased by the end of 1992, and Faces itself disbanded in early 1993, more than two years before Alison went to K2. He also suggested that they couldn't really blame the looming requirements - but also the opportunities - of the Single European Market; other climbing companies, notably DMM and Wild Country, took these in their stride and prospered.

Trad climber

Sep 12, 2014 - 07:34am PT

Sling is cool looking whomever made it …..thats for sure.

ClimbingOn

Trad climber

Sep 12, 2014 - 08:58am PT

Cosmic, replied to your PM. If it was yours back in the day, or you made it, I'd be happy to mail it to you.

ClimbingOn

Trad climber

Sep 12, 2014 - 09:30am PT

No DW initials stamped on any of it. So spill the beans - who made it?

Gunkie

Trad climber

East Coast US

Sep 12, 2014 - 11:21am PT

Cosmic, racked up for Pine Line?

Big Mike

Trad climber

Sep 12, 2014 - 12:28pm PT

Lol.. #3's and a 4 on pine line? Lol

wgd

Mountain climber

vancouver

Oct 24, 2014 - 04:56pm PT

Wondering if someone can help me identify who manufactured these piton holders ... picture is from 1966/67 Ski Hut Catalog

OlympicMtnBoy

climber

Seattle

Oct 24, 2014 - 08:55pm PT

And what was the purpose of that hook on the right? I have one of those, never found a use for it, even for bat hooking.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Oct 24, 2014 - 10:12pm PT

WGD... the piton holder pictures was called a Bandolier and was manufactured by Bill Forrest of Forrest Mountaineering.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Oct 24, 2014 - 10:44pm PT

Simon,
I believe the Piton Holder above predates the Forrest products,
PinBin and a Bandolier which held PinBins:
I believe this Piton Holder has been discussed on supertopo,
but I'm not sure if I can find that discussion.

The hook shown is apparently an early model Chouinard Cliffhanger.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 25, 2014 - 12:18am PT

Clint Cummins, you are right, the “piton-carrier” has already been discussed on supertopo, here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1077283&msg=1145453#msg1145453
Simon, after such an error, I am wondering if it would not be the time for you to part with a set of your Stubai Trangos… ;-)

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Oct 25, 2014 - 01:52pm PT

Agreed...LOL

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Oct 25, 2014 - 02:38pm PT

Thanks, Stephane - it's great that we have a true expert like yourself to provide the answer when the rest of us come up short!

OlympicMtnBoy

climber

Seattle

Oct 25, 2014 - 07:04pm PT

Cool, I didn't realize the cliffhanger had undergone such a radical change to the current version. And there isn't any labeling on mine. Thanks!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Oct 25, 2014 - 08:05pm PT

The interesting historical connection between these piton keepers and the Forrest Pinbin bandolier concept is made clear in a prototype Pinbin that I got from Bob Culp that featured the classic Pinbin trapezoidal shape rendered in metal tubing pinched and formed just like the earlier designs.

wgd

Mountain climber

vancouver

Oct 27, 2014 - 09:42am PT

thanks everyone .. appreciate the replys

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Apr 9, 2015 - 11:35am PT

Fun stuff!...more homemade gear anyone?

Montecarlo

Trad climber

Stockholm, Sweden

May 26, 2015 - 06:21am PT

wgd and clint cummins, the piton holder was, I think, manufactured by Stubai in Austria. The fi-fi hook looks like the model Salewa made, but maybe others have produced similar models.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

May 26, 2015 - 07:32am PT

Sticht link, Roots?

Stewart

Trad climber

Courtenay, B.C.

May 27, 2015 - 04:26pm PT

The oval piton holder was also advertised in the Blacks of Greenock catalogue in the late '60s(?) or early '70s.

Might have been manufactured by Stubai.

StahlBro

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

May 27, 2015 - 04:46pm PT

I am pretty sure the middle "hook" is fifi hook for french free.

Edit:

I saw two French climbers trying to climb the first pitch of Serenity Crack when it was running with water. The leader would place some pro, try to make a few moves, and then hang by a hook just like that one on the pro to rest or place more pro.

There was so much water that when he tried to place a jam water would actually run down his arm and start dripping off of his elbows. It was sort of funny and sad all at the same time, but I had to give him credit for perseverance

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Jun 3, 2015 - 04:52pm PT

^ The French are kick ass climbers.

Here's another link but this one is made of aluminum:

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jun 4, 2015 - 05:18pm PT

The aluminum single chain links colored red and non colored were made by MSR as a belay and rappel device shown in the 1970s MSR catalog. The MSR chain link may date back to 1969. The Arizona Mountaineering Club sold stainless steel chain links back in the late 1960s to use for the same purpose. The hook looks like a First Generation Chouinard Cliff Hanger so advertisement probably mid 1960s.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jun 5, 2015 - 04:33pm PT

johntp

Trad climber

socal

Jun 5, 2015 - 04:44pm PT

Would love to get my hands on some of those old Forrest P-Nuts. They were springy but I liked 'em

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jun 6, 2015 - 11:58am PT

The Piton carrier is a Salewa Clip

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jun 6, 2015 - 12:00pm PT

Arizona Mountaineering Club belay and rap link. c1969-1970s

Gunks Jesse

Trad climber

Shawangunk, NY

Jun 29, 2015 - 08:19am PT

For those of you who are Colorado Nut gear lovers, a #3 and a #4 I-beam chock fromy collection are going up on eBay. They are both in great shape. The #3 is up and the #4 will follow shortly. Here is a link to my current items for sale from my collection:

http://m.ebay.com/sch/flashoflight2/m.html?_pgn=1&isRefine=true

couchmaster

climber

Jul 2, 2015 - 02:32pm PT

Your link doesn't work for me, here's the list of your ebay stuff for anyone looking: http://www.ebay.com/sch/flashoflight2/m.html?item=161748670246&hash=item25a8f8d726&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Both of your Colorado Nuts are well over $100, congrats! Would have been a hell of an investment had you stocked up when they were new:-) The #3 is at $128 and there are 3 days left on the auction.

Edit, the #3 Colorado Nut sold for $157! Whoah.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 22, 2015 - 12:32am PT

My turn to ask some help from you my friends… There is a set of camming devices on eBay at the moment and… I have no idea about the maker. Steve, the “Maestro” must sometimes confess his ignorance… and lose your confidence…

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jul 22, 2015 - 08:34am PT

You will never lose my confidence, Maestro.

Until the Nutstory is complete we are all fishing around for the details. I don't recognize the cams but the stems obviously took some care so I would start trying to study that detail. The slotted axle screws are pretty distinctive too and an odd choice. Did you contact the seller for details?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 22, 2015 - 09:38am PT

Steve, here is what was mentioned in the auction: A set of seven rock climbing camming devices. These are of unknown age and provenance and should be used appropriately. That being said, they seem structurally sound, and the springs all work fine. They all seem to have been used rather gently, and the only visible sign of use are minor surface scratches. Some of these have plastic and other metal triggers, and all are in need of professional reslinging. Their width when fully opened is around 10, 8, 7, 5.5, 3.5, 3 and 2.5 cm. Free shipping and UK ONLY!

These cams have been sold this morning.

Until the Nutstory is complete we are all fishing around for the details.

Fortunately Steve, it is a never ending quest...

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Jul 22, 2015 - 10:01am PT

Some of these have plastic and other metal triggers,

that makes me think that they may be of Korean origin, some time in the early 90's ? i have a
off-size #1 that has a red plastic trigger(bar) that broke in the slot, snapped in half while my second tried to remove it.
So cheap a knock off, the trigger, but the rest seemed bomber.

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

Jul 22, 2015 - 11:07am PT

Maybe Russian? Wonder if the cam lobes are ti?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 23, 2015 - 09:09pm PT

Not sure who made the cams but the closest thing I could find was a Stregor cam from the Ukraine. The Stregor has the same flat head screw and washer, the same stem end for the carabiner and the same stem end where it attaches to the axle. Also the cam lobe tips angle downward (large cams). Maybe those cams are early Stregor?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 24, 2015 - 12:36am PT

Thank you Marty! You may probably be right.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Jul 24, 2015 - 04:21am PT

Amazing, there was a strong contingent of Checz (ukraine ?) climbers in the Gunks in the '80s.
They had an older mentor, who had a small home at the base of the route 44/55, the main road that ran past the Trapps, the main climbing area of the Mohonk preserve.
His name was Jon Burr. He made yearly trips back to Eastern Europe...and came home with as well as inspired communist block climbers, Goodies, like that.
One at least became a Mohnk Ranger, and I think still is. His name is Frank Tach.(?)
The poster 'Happie girl' is a seasonal ranger and may be able to put you in touch.

Banquo

climber

Amerricka

Jul 30, 2015 - 01:40pm PT

I've never seen one of these: Saw it on Ebay today.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Lot-of-Rock-Climbing-Gear-Hexs-Stoppers-and-Misc-Webbing-/231632299412?hash=item35ee5c6594

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jul 30, 2015 - 06:36pm PT

That looks like a poor attempt at a stackable made from one or possibly two large Stoppers and not likely to be anything beyond that by my eye.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 31, 2015 - 01:09am PT

Steve, I would not say that it is such a poor attempt. I am far from being an engineer but, as a modest collector, I find this nut rather interesting and beautiful.

Banquo

climber

Amerricka

Jul 31, 2015 - 07:05am PT

I am an engineer and I think it is interesting and probably works - as well as stackable nuts do. I won't bid on it but I'd like to try it.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 31, 2015 - 07:37am PT

I can't bid on it but I'd love to have it…
I am not an engineer but… when looking closely at the device, it seems to me that there should be more friction on the two nuts against each rock face than on the nuts against each other; so it might work. Anyway, thank you Banquo for posting it here.

Gunks Jesse

Trad climber

Shawangunk, NY

Aug 25, 2015 - 06:49pm PT

Not a mystery who made it to me: obviously a Forrest piece, size 2. But what was it called...

Also, got a couple SMC camlock nuts. Anybody ever used them? They look pretty cool and am debating on selling them off or adding them to my rack for the Gunks.. Advice?

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Aug 25, 2015 - 06:56pm PT

Forrest Arrowhead...

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Aug 25, 2015 - 07:15pm PT

SMC Camlock, sort of semi-useless for camming, ok as a nut if it fit something.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Aug 26, 2015 - 03:24am PT

I have just received most interesting information from our friend Ashby Robertson (Vertical Archaeology) regarding the mysterious cams sold on eBay a few weeks ago. Mystery solved…?

I saw a post you put on Supertopo about some unmarked cams. I had a climbing partner in Seoul, Korea in 1990 who had a set exactly like that. Completely unmarked, random plastic or light metal trigger (both bent!), and really stiff trigger action. They seemed to be early flex-friends copies and overall the construction wasn't too bad. The cable stem was floppy and inconsistent on the small sizes and almost ridged on the big size. I think we only had 5 units though... I don't have any pictures of that stuff but I remember it very well.
I think they were Czechoslovakian. My partner who owned them picked them up while stationed in Germany with the US Army. Sometimes you could find weird things for sale cheap if visiting climbers were trying to turn gear into money for their trip home.
I'm not sure all of these were of the origin I just outlined. The two middle sized units look a little different.

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Sep 30, 2015 - 08:13am PT

Here's a couple of small pitons that came from Ed Cooper's kit. Anyone know what we have here:

bhilden

Trad climber

Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO

Sep 30, 2015 - 09:21am PT

^^^^^^^
Look like someone's version of a RURP.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 1, 2015 - 12:20am PT

It seems to be plectrums for heavy metal rock guitar player...;-)

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Oct 2, 2015 - 08:12am PT

^Ha! So true!

Here's a comparison picture of what I believe to be a DOLT Thin Bit. Prior to obtaining the one shown from Ed, it was the smallest piton I had ever seen...

Gunks Ray

Trad climber

Gunks

Oct 2, 2015 - 10:41am PT

Also, got a couple SMC camlock nuts. Anybody ever used them? They look pretty cool and am debating on selling them off or adding them to my rack for the Gunks.. Advice?

SMC camlock. Keep or sell?
SMC camlock. Keep or sell?
Credit: Gunks Jesse

I used an SMC Camlock like in your photo to protect the first crux move into the overhangs on the first attempts of Suppers Ready in the Gunks, it was a key piece, nobody had anything else that would work in the small horizontal. This was back in 84 so it was before all the small cams came out. I'm pretty sure it was still on the route and used by Jim D on the first ascent.

Lorenzo

Trad climber

Portland Oregon

Oct 2, 2015 - 04:26pm PT

You need more of those SMC cam locks.

I'll sell you my old set.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Oct 2, 2015 - 04:47pm PT

Gunks Ray ?!?
There can be only one!
Just this week I jawed at Frank Minuni!
Now you ?
It must be. . '
83 ?
Suppers Ready?
SMC Wired Cam locks,!!? (in opposition they would stay )

You almost never post
Is that a way to be cool in the Gunks thing,
' always knew you to be above most of that.
Glad to hear tell of you ! How is Hay?

Over on the project they are in need of
A history lesson about weschester climbing
They think that they are the first at Byram Lake Rd
The big #s cliff at Armonk! You were there before me or Al I think?
(I know you got tic bit & Lymes)was that also 83?

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Oct 6, 2015 - 08:44am PT

Speaking of RURPS; how about these - any idea who made them?

Ed Cooper said he used them on the FA of NE Face of Mt. Baring 7/1960:

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 7, 2015 - 07:15am PT

I have just discovered these two cams on eBay. To my knowledge, these close copies of the Wild Country Technical Friends (1987) were made by the Canadian company, Outland Climbing Equipment, in the early nineties. They were called Outland Four Cam Units and marketed in five sizes. Is there anybody here who could confirm it?

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Oct 22, 2015 - 09:48am PT

^^^^^bump for my mystery RURPS and micro pitons....

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Oct 23, 2015 - 10:26am PT

Here's another mystery piece of gear but not "pro"..hope you gear whores don't mind ; )

Was used by Gene and Betsy White. Betsy said it was made by Forrest and probably a prototype. Anyone know?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 23, 2015 - 10:34am PT

SMC Camlocks - pretty bogus, but worked OK as regular nuts. Carried 'em for a while until I
decided they didn't have much 'range'.

That pipe above looks like you would really have to suck hard on it!

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Oct 23, 2015 - 01:42pm PT

There were some nut tool / hammers that looked like that made from nuclear reactor control rods. I'd suggest taking a giger counter to that thing.

bhilden

Trad climber

Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO

Oct 23, 2015 - 01:49pm PT

Stephane,

I have several of those Outland Cams. Mine have a red-colored trigger. Probably a size thing.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Oct 23, 2015 - 07:30pm PT

Roots: nice Dolt Bits! The ebay hammer nut tool looks homemade to me. Rurps unknown but you are going on Eds memory. Are you positive those Rurps are from 1960?

Stephane: My 5 cam set I have listed as Extreme Cams from Extreme Mountain Gear from Canada late 1980s. The cams are shown in an advertisement in R&I or Climbing magazine. These are Outland Cams? The slings were added by Ragged Mountain.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 24, 2015 - 12:56am PT

The Canadian company Outland Climbing Equipment Ltd started in 1989. They produced nuts, TCUs and four cam units in the early nineties. The Extreme Mountaingear cams were made by Outland Climbing Equipment Ltd.
bhilden, are your Outland cams that have a red-colored trigger bar the same size?
Marty, I suspect that it is the advertisement that you mention in your post.

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Oct 27, 2015 - 04:44pm PT

Roots: nice Dolt Bits! The ebay hammer nut tool looks homemade to me. Rurps unknown but you are going on Eds memory. Are you positive those Rurps are from 1960?

-DOLT it is then, but does not look like his finished quality. Maybe prototype?

-I thought it was homemade too, but Betsy didn't hesitate when she answered "The nut tool was made by Bill Forrest, probably a prototype".

-Ed's is suffering from CRS. He couldn't remember if some of what I have was used on Dihedral Wall FA or not, even though some of the pieces are displayed in the DH gear photo.

-However, he did clearly remember using those RURPS on the FA of Mt. B. He said without them, the ascent would not have been possible.

-If he is remembering correctly, that kinds of throws off the Chouinard timeline on RURPS???? If they are Chouinard...

-He stopped buying climbing gear in 1964.

*EDIT: Looks like I have a typo above. Thank you Clint for verifying. 1961.*

Thanks for the help!

PS More to come : )

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Oct 27, 2015 - 04:51pm PT

-If he is remembering correctly, that kinds of throws off the Chouinard timeline on RURPS???? If they are Chouinard...

Ed's timeline is consistent with Chouinard, and Ed's are Chouinard RURPs.

RURP: invented by Yvon Chouinard and Tom Frost for the April 1960 FA of Kat Pinnacle - Southwest Face

Mt. Baring - North Face - FA: Don Gordon and Ed Cooper, July 13, 1961.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 29, 2015 - 10:51am PT

What is this...?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Oct 29, 2015 - 02:50pm PT

Wow cool! I like how the end of the trigger bar is cut in for a thumb catch

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Oct 30, 2015 - 08:38am PT

Pitons made by whom??!!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Oct 30, 2015 - 09:30am PT

Dolt...

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Oct 30, 2015 - 09:53am PT

DOLT!!

Well of course I had hoped for that answer but again, the quality is not top notch like other examples I have of his gear. Seems his early creations were not as "finished" as his later ones?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Oct 31, 2015 - 09:09am PT

looks like Dolt with the welded ends

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Oct 31, 2015 - 12:51pm PT

Classic Dolt!

13 sizes where two or three would be more than adequate.

LilaBiene

Trad climber

Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite

Oct 31, 2015 - 07:55pm PT

Except that he did find making two of the same size "nuttifying"... ;D

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 1, 2015 - 10:13pm PT

Nuttifying it is!

So very Dolt!

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Nov 2, 2015 - 08:52am PT

Oh - you guys are good..thank you for the help!

How about this set:

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Nov 2, 2015 - 06:25pm PT

They look crude but beautiful, creator unknown.

looks like a personal creation, not from a manufacturer

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 2, 2015 - 08:33pm PT

Unless Ed knows the story behind those pitons they look like student pieces.

Cooper and Baldwin worked with a local blacksmith when the Grand Wall was going up but those don't look to be made with much skill at all. I will say that Dick Long forged his horizontals from thick bar and these may have been his first attempts at forging but that would need to be confirmed directly.

That bottom one has a lot of eye deformation which would lead me to believe that these are not tempered alloy pitons.

Everyone starts somewhere...

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Nov 2, 2015 - 10:09pm PT

I like Steve's thought that these could be early models by Dick Long.
Here are his April 1964 models for reference:

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Nov 3, 2015 - 08:08am PT

Interesting....the majority of his kit that I now have is Longware; bongs, etc.

I really like this set. They are thick and heavy but small.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Nov 4, 2015 - 09:43pm PT

The Dolt pitons are amazing! They look beat up but still has their original shape. Classic Dolt! Its nice that a few have surfaced. Thanks Roots for posting the pics.

Mountain climber

there and back again

Dec 9, 2015 - 08:59am PT

Is this one of the early RURPs

Chossboss

Trad climber

The GNAR

Dec 9, 2015 - 11:54am PT

That looks like a standard production RURP to me. Early 80's Chouinard Equipment.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 9, 2015 - 04:34pm PT

Nutstory, those are 'Cloud Nines.' A production runs on #9's, and a 9" and 12", with. a bd 5 and a #9 VG, for scale. The nine is a close to production model. They are twenty first century cams, made by offwidth superstar Bart Bledsoe in London, Kentucky.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Dec 9, 2015 - 11:46pm PT

Jaybro, thank you very much for your answer! Would it be possible to get Bart Bledsoe’s email address? I would be delighted to get in touch with him…
Then… hum… Jaybro, with such magnificent weapons on your rack now, you do no longer need your old Wired Bliss Big Bud #7…? Hurrah! No matter its condition, it will find a well-deserved retirement here in Corsica…

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Dec 20, 2015 - 12:13pm PT

Both are sets of ABC cam units with white trigger bars. The question is: which set was developed first? Also date created?

In the above photo the top set has oval thumb bars stamped “ABC” and white open trigger bars. The bottom set has square thumb bars with a “ABC within a carabiner outline” stamp and closed trigger bars held by a pin.

I would think the improvements on the units would be the oval thumb bar (top) but at the same time the pins on the trigger bars (bottom) serve as an improvement. If money was being saved on the mfg of the units then the cams should have square thumb bars, simple “ABC” stamp and no pins.

Hmmm, so which set was developed first?
Happy Holidays!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jan 10, 2016 - 07:49pm PT

Roots will like this! I was researching the Lowe Alpine Systems belay device, which basically is a SMC rappel ring, and I found your mystery ebay nut tool. It is a Lowe Alpine Systems Hammer and Nut Tool. Notice on the 1974 price list that it retails for more than the Split Cam device retails for.

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Jan 11, 2016 - 07:56am PT

Yes! Awesome..thank you!

grover

climber

Castlegar BC

Jan 11, 2016 - 09:31am PT

Thanks for the info. Marty.

I always wondered why the ring had a swage.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Jan 16, 2016 - 03:05pm PT

Just now saw this, I'll send you his contact info, via super taco IM, he's also on Facebook.

Another inventor has borrowed my WB #7 but I'll get it back by this summer.

Also, have you seen the Pamalots?

Jaybro, thank you very much for your answer! Would it be possible to get Bart Bledsoe’s email address? I would be delighted to get in touch with him…
Then… hum… Jaybro, with such magnificent weapons on your rack now, you do no longer need your old Wired Bliss Big Bud #7…? Hurrah! No matter its condition, it will find a well-deserved retirement here in Corsica…

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jan 16, 2016 - 03:45pm PT

It's a gay old time in Camelot and you get to push the Pamalot?!?

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Jan 16, 2016 - 04:52pm PT

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jan 18, 2016 - 03:07am PT

Just now saw this, I'll send you his contact info, via super taco IM, he's also on Facebook.
Another inventor has borrowed my WB #7 but I'll get it back by this summer.
Also, have you seen the Pamalots?

Jaybro, thank you so much for your message! I am going to try to get in touch with Bart... Wait & see...
Oh yes, I have seen the Pamalots. On the photographs shown on the Internet the trigger system seems to be a little "crude".
So we can suspect that your Wired Bliss #7 is going to have some more "children" in the future...

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Jan 18, 2016 - 08:40am PT

It's looking like it!

Banquo

climber

Amerricka

Feb 6, 2016 - 07:50am PT

I don't know if these qualify as "old mystery pro" but they might. I was told they are US military surplus but don't know. There are no marks. I have no need for them so if Stephan or Marty wants them I'm willing to part with them.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Feb 8, 2016 - 03:52am PT

Banquo,

I have seen these nuts on ebay a few times but never knew who the manufacturer was. Yes I will love to have the set of nuts for the Karabin Museum. I have seen these nuts numbered 1-5 as well.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Feb 8, 2016 - 09:12am PT

Banquo,

I have seen these nuts on ebay a few times but never knew who the manufacturer was. Yes I will love to have the set of nuts for the Nuts Museum. I have seen these nuts numbered 1-5 as well.

Marty, forgive this joke... and Banquo, thank you very much for your kind attention. Anyway, it will be much cheaper for you to give them to Marty than to post them to Corsica.
Edit: this morning, after twenty five years of research, I finally completed the Troll Tee Chock collection, so I feel very generous today :-)

Banquo

climber

Amerricka

Feb 8, 2016 - 01:16pm PT

They are on their way to Marty although I would have been happy to send them to Corsica. Marty answered first so that's it.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Feb 9, 2016 - 12:18am PT

Banquo, I was probably sleeping when Marty posted on this thread... ;-)
Anyway, again, I thank you very much for thinking to me regarding this most interesting set.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Feb 10, 2016 - 08:44pm PT

Banquo - The set of nuts have arrived and are now in the Karabin Climbing Museum. Thank you so much for your support and donations to the museum! The nuts are crude with wire ends sticking out from the swags and the edges of the nuts are sharp. The wire holes drilled through the nut is the same size as the braided wires so I am sure assembly was tedious. Don't get me wrong I love these nuts! Yet they still lack a manufactures name and history.

Stephane: I read Banquos message about the set of nuts and for no reason, except for my Leo smile, I let you have first crack at them by not responding for 24 hours. I woke up early in the morning and rechecked the post and nobody else had replied. Not Stephane or anybody else! WoW! So Banquo can be proud that his nuts are preserved in the Karabin Museum!

Stephane congrats on the Troll Tee collection. Please share some pictures.....I only have two.........

Banquo

climber

Amerricka

Feb 11, 2016 - 07:49am PT

Glad they got there Marty. Although unfinished, they look pretty solid. They seem to be cut from extrusions so whoever made them must have made enough to bother with getting the extrusions made.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Feb 15, 2016 - 08:49pm PT

Banquo - If these nuts are military I bet a lot of these nuts were made especially for use in training. During action the nuts are probably placed and left there like ladders. John Yates told me "when it comes to action you leave the sh#t behind and you get in there and you clean house!" Good times!

Banquo once again thanks!

Gunks Jesse

Trad climber

Shawangunk, NY

Feb 16, 2016 - 02:06pm PT

I've searched everywhere and can't find anything like this tiny piton. I'm now suspecting it was sheared out of scrap steel at somebody's fab shop for a specific route and placement and then never used. Workmanship is better than somebody hacking something together would typically put into a quick little pin like this though. Anybody ever seen one like it or know what it is?

Batrock

Trad climber

Burbank

Feb 16, 2016 - 04:48pm PT

That little "piton" is actually a pin used to remove a drill bit from the drill holder. I have a few and I think Leeper was one of the distributors at the time.

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

Feb 16, 2016 - 08:18pm PT

Yep...drift pin. Useful if you need to swap out a busted bit.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Feb 16, 2016 - 08:55pm PT

I'm gonna sling my drift pins, that's a good idea

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Feb 17, 2016 - 08:15am PT

How about this MSR tool? The pick angle is so steep I can't imagine that it would work very well on ice. Kind of reminds me of a (forest) fire fighter's axe?

Mountain climber

there and back again

Feb 17, 2016 - 01:45pm PT

Going through my stuff to sell off and thought I would start here with belay devices I have collected over the years before posting it to the general public.

I wish I could afford to give them to the many worthy museums, but work is slow etc. If your interested let me know what it is worth to you. And if you'd care to comment on or identify that would be cool too.

Mountain climber

there and back again

Feb 17, 2016 - 10:11pm PT

Here is another odd belay device

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Feb 17, 2016 - 10:36pm PT

Hey H what I love besides the whole stash is the colors of the two cords
Leave them and tell buyers not to discard them. The red and green and black flecked with green & pink - decades old but holding fond memories I wish I knew with certainty
Great share though, placed under a Roots share too

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Feb 18, 2016 - 12:08am PT

H: Gary Storrick is THE man you are looking for the history.
http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml

Stephen McCabe

Trad climber

near Santa Cruz, CA

Feb 18, 2016 - 01:26am PT

By upper right you must not mean the 9 11mm Salewa Sticht plate with the red rope.
I don't know that other one, but my sticht plate looks identical and has the same red rope with blue,
so the rope seems like it must be the original that came with it.

Stephen

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 18, 2016 - 08:07am PT

I would be interested in the gold ring and the three hole device (two small, one big left of the top figure 8) if it has some sort of stamp on it.

Mountain climber

there and back again

Feb 18, 2016 - 09:43am PT

Thanks Gnome for the nice feedback.

Alright Cosmic. Thanks for the Kong info. I have Couinard, wild country, Cmi, SMC, BD, and two uknown.

Nutstory, Gary is an incredible resource. Thanks

Stephen, no I mean the one to the right of the stitch plate, above the gold ring.

Steve I think the gold ring is sold. The 3 holed device your asking about is an Edelrid.

Here are a couple more interesting peices:

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 18, 2016 - 10:14am PT

The nut on purple perlon is a Moac.

Rockies Obscure

Trad climber

rockiesobscure.com....Canada

Feb 18, 2016 - 10:20am PT

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/339713/Smiley-Climbing-Equipment-Steve-Carmen-anyone

Mountain climber

there and back again

Feb 18, 2016 - 10:41am PT

Thanks Steve I'll add them to a couple others I have. Still interested in the Edlerid?

Rockies thanks. Intertesting story.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 18, 2016 - 03:13pm PT

Harrison- Yes I am interested in the Edelrid device. I will email you about it and the Colorado Nut.

Roots- I looked at that MSR axe and I think it was designed during the brief period when it was considered acceptable style (ala Bugs McKeith) to hang directly from your ice tools in slings so you would drive it in using the hammer head as a striker and run an aider through the hole in the pick. No teeth and the weird droop are very unusual for a swinging axe.

Mountain climber

there and back again

Feb 18, 2016 - 05:09pm PT

Thanks Steve. I'll put them aside for you and wait for your email.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Feb 18, 2016 - 08:54pm PT

I am interested in the Stubai Trango (nut with rubber ) and the small alum rap ring below the gold Ringdolt if they are still available.

Sweet!

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Feb 18, 2016 - 09:07pm PT

I'd love that plastic Forrest nut... how do I make that happen?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Feb 19, 2016 - 12:20am PT

the slung nut looks like it was cast. Not a Forrest?

H: your nut is a MOAC Original Chock, 2nd generation.
Please find below a MOAC Original Chock, 1st generation.

Mountain climber

there and back again

Feb 19, 2016 - 02:22pm PT

Hi Karabin, They have both been sold and shipped out. What was the diamond shapped thing by Stubai?

Steel I think it was sold I'll get back to you. The first person to inquire get the first chance. Sorry

Nutstory I am not sure they are from the same manufacture. Check out the picture:

Here is a pin holder made and bought by me in Seattle late '80's. Anyone recognize the logo?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Feb 20, 2016 - 02:42am PT

H: Ellis Brigham, owner of a chain of outdoor shops in UK who sponsored the die cast first production run of the MOAC Original Chock, also owned a climbing equipment import company, Mountain Activities. Therefore the name MOAC was chosen for this nut, that many British and American climbers still carry them for sentimental reasons. There are two generations of MOAC Original Chock produced in the sixties / early seventies. Mounted on 9 mm rope, if only one size was available, other sizes could be obtained by filing them down to reduce their thickness.
In 1972, MOAC also produced a set of more "common" nuts, in four different sizes, loose and on wire.
Regarding the Stubai Trango, they were produced in 1987.

Mountain climber

there and back again

Feb 23, 2016 - 04:48pm PT

Thanks Nutstory. Yep that's it alright.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Feb 23, 2016 - 05:33pm PT

Crazy, 'Trango' thing!
I had one, that I used to hold a hotel door open, during a prolonged 18 months stay.
got taken, I was & still am angry about that, Lots of stuff walked.....

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2771543&msg=2771661#msg2771661

I was still in need of keeping the door open
went to a piece of scrap Iron I'll see about a pic, but it is not climbing gear so...maybe not.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Feb 23, 2016 - 06:10pm PT

I did not realize that
I had not put these here YES Forrest, P`(EA)' NUT` Think they came in 3 sizes .?They were Brilliant. Left room for the tips of your fingers, A key thing for my short reach , this, # 1, is the perfect size for the Climb OPEN COCKPIT,Gunks, @Sky Top

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Feb 23, 2016 - 06:19pm PT

Well LOVED `old skool` MOACs, & 'straight sided' same vintage? Italian/Chouinard,for comparison
I can't seem to find the snaps of the round peck nuts they are not so rare or strange on the other (uk)side of the pond, so no big deal...

Q-man

Trad climber

Feb 24, 2016 - 08:38am PT

Gnome, first pic is a Forrest P-Nut.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Feb 24, 2016 - 07:03pm PT

Here is a pin holder made and bought by me in Seattle late '80's. Anyone recognize the logo?

C & S Engineering.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010201152400/http://www.cands.net/
(page archived in 2001)

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Feb 25, 2016 - 06:58am PT

As always thanks , Clint, it only led to more questions....

Hey,
EDIT:
Q-man? ~ yup,(1of 3sizes?) Forrest Peanut,
No mention of the Lowe proto-type? cam, thing!?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Feb 25, 2016 - 07:47am PT

This is not a prototype. It is a splendid sample of Lowe Split Cam (1974), slightly different from mine that has a composite ring between the two cam lobes.
Forrest Mountaineering P-Nuts, 1982. Four sizes covered 1/2" to 1-1/4"

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Feb 25, 2016 - 08:09am PT

Ah 4 sizes, I only had 3. and I thought it was "P" also but wanted to draw out this elusive Q-man poster....

whoa, editing at the same time as your answer!
I was thinking it looked pre production? no spring or Grooved "teeth"?

I `so' miss my collection of old gear!

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Feb 25, 2016 - 11:42am PT

Roots- I looked at that MSR axe and I think it was designed during the brief period when it was considered acceptable style (ala Bugs McKeith) to hang directly from your ice tools in slings so you would drive it in using the hammer head as a striker and run an aider through the hole in the pick. No teeth and the weird droop are very unusual for a swinging axe.

Thanks Steve...I love the very unusual stuff : )

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Feb 25, 2016 - 12:49pm PT

Stephane - I assume the split headed version of the Lowe Cam came along as an improvement over the non-split version? Do you have a date of mfr on the unsplit cam?

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Feb 25, 2016 - 02:15pm PT

Greg,
There's lots of info on the Lowe Cam on Stephane's page:
http://www.needlesports.com/content/nuts-story-clockwork-friends.aspx
1972 - single lobe prototypes
1973 - patent for constant angle cam
1973-May - ad for single lobe cam for $3.95 in Climbing magazine
1974 - twin lobe cam

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Feb 25, 2016 - 08:02pm PT

- H: Thanks anyways. I already had the same size Trango you did but I was going to send it to the Olson collection. In the photos I show the Stubai Trango #1, 4, 6 and I have the #5 in a display at the Phoenix Rock Gym. Many years ago I traded to Gary Neptune my #3 for a Salathe Bolt hanger. Not sure who made the smaller aluminum rap ring.

Stephane: that Lowe Split Cam photo is sweet!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 25, 2016 - 09:54pm PT

Classic Cartoon!

Mountain climber

there and back again

Feb 25, 2016 - 09:57pm PT

Clint Thanks for finding the C and S ad. Interesting site "the way back machine". I guess they were not very successfull. Anyway nice to have a piece of history.

Gnome good eye on the Split cam. I have not figured how much I want for that one yet, but its up for grabs. I used to have a single shaft but don't know where it ended up.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 1, 2016 - 03:18am PT

steelmnkey:

Stephane,
When Mike Lowe asked me to split the cams [of the Lowe Cam Nut], which as you know are cast aluminum, I didn't realize that the alloy would make the cutting process somewhat difficult. I made a jig for our cut-off saw that would hold the casting firmly when I cut them, but the casting was very 'dirty', meaning that there were impurities in the aluminum that sent sparks flying and dulled the carbide saw blade very quickly. I was very happy that I only had a few hundred cams to split!
[Billy Ross, 29 May 2009]

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 1, 2016 - 07:49am PT

Another mystery pro… It is my turn to need a little help from my friends on Supertopo. Is there anybody here who would has ever seen these cams? I got them a couple of weeks ago, but I do not know anything about them. They are quite similar to the Advanced Base Camp cams (made in Korea) but the axle ends are different. Only the four cam unit is stamped with “ROCK FACE II”

WyoRockMan

climber

Grizzlyville, WY

Mar 2, 2016 - 07:11pm PT

No idea on those cams.

Is this a CMI Kirk's Kamm or a RokJox? If the latter was that also by CMI?

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 2, 2016 - 07:22pm PT

I believe thats the spring loaded version of what we called the 'CMI Swivel O' Death'...

WyoRockMan

climber

Grizzlyville, WY

Mar 2, 2016 - 07:28pm PT

I'm amazed there was more than one of these made. Ray Charles could see it would walk all over.

deuce4

climber

Hobart, Australia

Mar 2, 2016 - 07:37pm PT

speaking of Moacs, there was another nut way back when with similar sharp taper and useful in certain rock types, I think they were called Seneca's.

They were all sold out when I tried to get some, but I made my own similar versions at the Dartmouth machine shop in 1978

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 3, 2016 - 12:23am PT

Is this a CMI Kirk's Kamm or a RokJox? If the latter was that also by CMI?

If you want to be the most accurate possible, it is a CMI RoKJoX, made in 1987.

speaking of Moacs, there was another nut way back when with similar sharp taper and useful in certain rock types, I think they were called Seneca's.

John, if I am not mistaken, the real name of Seneca's is Dual Taper Wedge or Steve's Stone. They predate the Chouinard Stopper by one year.
These "A5" handmade "Seneca's" are just splendid...

Mountain climber

there and back again

Mar 10, 2016 - 06:59pm PT

Here is a collection of Sliders I have been hanging on to. I would like to know what I have if anyone out there can help.

Thanks

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 10, 2016 - 08:55pm PT

Quickies on the top and Rock N Rollers second from the top if I am not mistaken. I'd have to pull out a few from my collection to distinguish the Quickies from the Not So Quickies.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 11, 2016 - 07:12am PT

H : On your first picture, the 3 Quickies on the left are pre-production models. “DB” stands for Don Best. I would love to get them in my collection. Unfortunately, I can’t spend any money for them. Sorry H…:-(
Edit: Your GO PRO Rock'n Rollers (Bravo Steve!) are 2nd generation (1987)

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 11, 2016 - 07:56am PT

Maestro Pennequin- Where does Gendarme Nuts fit into the nomenclature?

Are they Gendarme Dual Taper Wedges?

The fellow who generously sent me a beautiful set of said Wedges also sent me a classic Moac nut and pointed out that Markwell simply cut the Moac in half to yield the design with very little other modification.

Harrison- Check your email

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 11, 2016 - 08:01am PT

John [Middendorf], if I am not mistaken, the real name of Seneca's [Gendarme Nut] is Dual Taper Wedge or Steve's Stone. They predate the Chouinard Stopper by one year.

Steve, does the post above reply to your question?

The fellow who generously sent me a beautiful set of said Wedges also sent me a classic Moac nut and pointed out that Markwell simply cut the Moac in half to yield the design with very little other modification.

Absolutely exact!

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 11, 2016 - 08:13am PT

Will I be able to retire by selling my set of Charlie Porter sliders?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 11, 2016 - 08:18am PT

No... especially if you are a generous benefactor :-) Only the number 5 is missing here...

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 11, 2016 - 08:23am PT

Ah, mon petit chou, vous ne disposez pas d'un ensemble? Hmmmm.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 11, 2016 - 08:24am PT

What a "lovely" French language...
I would have written: "Ah, mon cher ami, vous ne possédait pas le jeu complet? Hum..."

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 11, 2016 - 08:30am PT

Reilly- I'd like to manage your retirement if you would let me fondle your portfolio.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 11, 2016 - 08:32am PT

I thought a number five was among the ones I sent...?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 11, 2016 - 08:40am PT

No Joseph, but you did so much for me at that time. Without you (and David) the "Porter Nuts Museum" would not exist...

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 11, 2016 - 11:20am PT

Nutstory, excusez-moi, je sais que mon français est horrible.
La femme est française, pas moi! ;-)

Mountain climber

there and back again

Mar 11, 2016 - 05:46pm PT

Thanks for the info guys.

How about the the year of the Metolius and Lowe sliders? Any help there?

Here are some cams:

I am pretty sure these are early cams. Any help would be great.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 12, 2016 - 12:37am PT

Rigged west coast.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 12, 2016 - 12:46am PT

1st and 2nd photograph:
Associate ½ made by Dave Altman, Rob Oravetz and Eben Stromquist (mid eighties). A real treasure…
3rd photograph:
Colorado Custom Hardware Alien 1st generation (1987)
4th photograph:
Wild Country Flexible Friend / Technical Friend #1½ (1988). Axle with low profile end-screws.
5th photograph:
Large cam device with rigid stem #6 made by Dave Altman, Rob Oravetz and Eben Stromquist (mid eighties).
6th photograph (left to right):
- Wild Country Friend #½ 1st generation (1986) thick titanium stem.
- Custom made ‘Friend-like” #0.75 by a long time valley climber and journeyman machinist. I am sorry, I do not know more about this cam (I have a similar sample).
- Wild Country Friend #½ 2nd generation (1986, yes!) thin titanium stem.
- HB Cam #½ 2nd generation (1982) made by Malcolm Matheson (aka Horsham Bruce) in Australia.
- Wild Country Friend #1 (1978) thin trigger bar and flat thin machine nuts.

Without the devices in hand I am not 100% sure…

Edit: The Metolius Sliders hit the market in 1983.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 12, 2016 - 05:30am PT

All these are great and I'm glad I was able to help out yours and the other collections. This is also a pretty cool aspect of the internet, that all our various flotsam and detritus can surface to be swept up and preserved. I don't have the discipline or time for it, but am thankful guys like you, Marty, Steve, Jeff, Ken, and Gary do have such a passion for it. Otherwise it would be a shame to lose track and sight of this aspect of climbing's history and heritage.

I'd also definitely encourage others to to keep their eyes open for such treasures and contribute whatever they can to these great collections.

And here's to you guys thinking about how and where your collections and legacies will end up residing over the long haul such that the public will gain access in either permanent and / or traveling exhibits.

Mountain climber

there and back again

Mar 12, 2016 - 02:34pm PT

Thank you Stephane for your id of these cams. Your wealth of knowledge is invaluble.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 14, 2016 - 01:37am PT

Left to right: Micro 1/2, Steve Jones "Friend" 3/4 (1982/1983), unknown "Friend" 3/4 (similar to H's device), Wild Country Friend 1/2 (1st generation, 1986), Wild Country Friend 1/2 (2nd generation, 1986).
Your Associate truly would be an awesome addition to this collection...

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 15, 2016 - 06:12am PT

No matter old or new, "mystery" is the "key word"...
I suspect that these are Salewa Quick Screw.
http://www.salewa.com/en/quick-screw.html

Mountain climber

there and back again

Mar 15, 2016 - 02:17pm PT

I just have to say this has been a great learning experience for me. I just went through the Two Shipley cams for sale post:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=809995&tn=100
It was fasinating. Thanks Joe, Marty and Stephane for all you do.

My Associate I think is a 3/4. It measures 1"and 5/8 when deployed.
My "unknown" friend is a little different from yours Stephane only by an aditional hole between the head and trigger? The head measures 1 1/8 and 5/8 deployed.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Apr 15, 2016 - 09:41am PT

Is there anybody here who could help me to identify this mysterious cam…?
Ukraine, Czech Republic, Canada, Korea…?
I must confess that I cannot make the job...:-(

Chossboss

Trad climber

The GNAR

Apr 15, 2016 - 04:39pm PT

Early model flexible friend?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Apr 16, 2016 - 12:11am PT

Early model flexible friend?

No Chossboss. I have samples of all the generations of the Wild Country Flexible-Technical Friends (I have even seen the prototypes at the factory in 1996), so I suspect that this cam is just a beautiful duplicate...

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Aug 15, 2016 - 07:47am PT

Salewa carabiner tested and extremely light. Is it hollow?

life is a bivouac

Trad climber

Bishop

Aug 15, 2016 - 03:46pm PT

Hello, Marlow,
Your 'biner is very similar to the R. Robbins hollow 'biners he sold in the mid '70s. His tested @ 3100 lbs. and looks the same except he had his name stamped on the long body side. Yes, indeed they were hollow.
Cheers! Russ

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Aug 15, 2016 - 04:28pm PT

This model Salewa hollow biner was shown in a 1978 ad in Mountain magazine.
The R ROBBINS / Salewa hollow biners of 1978 were ovals (though otherwise very similar).
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1830238/Robbins-Salewa-hollow-carabiners

originalpmac

Mountain climber

Anywhere I like

Aug 15, 2016 - 05:23pm PT

Worlds largest piton. Any one know what it is?

I have a vague idea.

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Aug 15, 2016 - 05:39pm PT

Marlow! Per your question & Russ's comment, Salewa made two "ultralight" (for the time) biners back around 1978. Robbins imported both of them with his name on them instead of Salewa.

The larger diameter one was hollow, & I think the skinnier one was solid.

Here's a Mountain magazine ad from 1/1978 that shows the Salewa hollow biner, and mentions it is available in the U.S.

And here's my photo of both Robbins/Salewa Biners. The hollow one is at bottom.

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Aug 15, 2016 - 06:15pm PT

^ re large piton up thread:

Any one know what it is?

It's Worlds largest homemade piton.. : )

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Aug 15, 2016 - 07:38pm PT

I think some of the pitons fashioned for the FA of the Nose are certainly bigger than that one.

I agree with the Gnomes assessment below that you are looking at gate hardware and likely not a piton at all.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Aug 15, 2016 - 09:03pm PT

I hate the location of the learn more tab.....!

A Hinge part?

I think it looks like a 'female' (shackle style, primitive gate/Barn door) Stockade hinge part, The two holes used to bolt it to the frame of a structure. Oriented horizontally, to provide a capture point for a 'male' peg.

Or a eastern block bolt the Eye of the thing to hold a cable holding a religious icon in place, like on the European summits.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 15, 2016 - 10:24pm PT

Gnome you beat me to the answer. I was going to say a homemade barn door hinge, but many of them are not angled like a piton. I do however have a few beefy pitons that were made/used to tie logs together when running them down the river in the old logging days.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Aug 16, 2016 - 09:37am PT

Thanks to Russ, Clint and Fritz.

From your comments and photos, I think there is reason to conclude as I have done below:

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Aug 16, 2016 - 10:40am PT

That hollow Robbins biner should have a visible seam at both ends of the gate, where the aluminum tubing was smashed flat.

Forming aluminum tubing into a biner, without buckling and collapsing it near the tight bends, was probably a difficult magic trick.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Aug 16, 2016 - 12:37pm PT

Incidentally, climbing equipment has now made the big time. I was watching "How It's Made" on the Science Channel several months ago, and one of the episodes showed the manufacture of 'biners and cams.

John

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 4, 2016 - 08:18am PT

Still a mystery to me - CCB gear - Who made the gear? Where was it made?

Here's some old CCB Eckenstein crampons

CCB also made ice axes and pitons.

These crampons were sold by Christen, Bern.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 4, 2016 - 10:15am PT

Splendid question Marlow!

I have been wondering the same about CCB and haven't been able to find much.

As Switzerland made it through WW II without a lot of disruption it would seem that information would be available since they were producing pitons at least well into the 1960s. That they were producing "Eckenstein" stamped crampons puts their production at least as far back as the 1930s. It seems that the Eckenstein designation disappeared from crampons as soon as Grivel began to produce theirs from better steel and made available a much lighter crampon and one with front points.

You are very good at finding information so I am surprised that you are running into the same problems that I have experienced.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 4, 2016 - 11:31am PT

Steve.

I have been searching for CCB information without finding much, and what I find is constructively confusing. One website mentions "CCB Freres Sports" (sounds French or Swiss). The name CCB Freres was used connected to an ice axe carrying the name "Marke Mischabel" on one side and "CCB" on the other (and not the word Freres - "freres" = "brothers"). I have seen the same ice axe model sold three or four times on the web, so it is quite common. Marke Mischabel was normally produced by "Gebr. Andenmatten" (Swiss). The "CCB Marke Mischabel" ice axe was believed to have been produced 1945-1950. Which makes me think that the CCB Eckenstein crampons could also have been produced as late as 1945-1950.

One eBay seller sold CCB as being produced in Britain.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 4, 2016 - 11:39am PT

I am pretty sure the CCB name is based in Switzerland which certainly works with Mischabel.

CCB was imported by Abercrombie and Fitch as best I can determine without any catalogs as their pitons were available on the east coast of the US before WW II based on anecdotal evidence with Sporthaus Schuster being the main competitor. If you were able to find CCB hardware being sold by Sporthaus Schuster alongside their own hardware that would cast some doubt on the Abercrombie and Fitch connection. I haven't seen CCB in the many early catalogs that you have so wonderfully posted.

Have you found any evidence of CCB away from climbing equipment as many of these blacksmith shops and foundrys seem to produce gear as a small part of their commercial offerings?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 4, 2016 - 11:46am PT

Steve

I have seen many old Sporthaus Fritsch pitons being sold by American sellers. When were these pitons imported to America? And who imported them?

Were they imported in competition with Sporthaus Schuster and CCB?

I have not seen any other CCB items than CCB climbing gear, but that is also what I have been looking for. I will keep my eyes and mind open.

CCB could be a pure seller and not a producer or a combined producer and seller.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 4, 2016 - 12:04pm PT

CCB pitons are distinct from the others and seem to have been made independently of the other producers. I have been trying to trace the importers of this early European hardware as best I can and that requires catalogs to be definitve.

CCB was imported by Sports Chalet in the 1960s. During the 1940s I think that Sportshaus Schuster hardware was ordered fromEeurope.

Early accounts of ascents like the Higher Cathedral Spire mention waiting for hardware orders to arrive which makes me think that many climbers were still ordering from overseas before WW II.

The earliest issues of Summit magazine have lists of equipment suppliers/importers and very few existed in the US. Abercrombie and Fitch was one of them but again I have no catalogs to verify what they were bringing in.

I collect a lot of this early hardware in hopes of making a sensible timeline for the availability of it in the US with hopes of being able to coordinate with European suppliers.

After WW II lots of the classic military surplus hardware became readily available but climbers needed more than these four sizes and designs and importing began in earnest as the number of retailers began to expand to fill the demand. The Swiss companies and Sporthaus Schuster were the main suppliers since they weren't thrown backwards as much during the war.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Sep 4, 2016 - 12:31pm PT

KINGTUT<
. . . . . . .(?sic)
You realize you are old...when you recognize 80% of the old crap in this thread, have used it extensively, clipped a fixed one, or threw it out as junk lol. And youts today look at it like a Model T on display at the Smithsonian.

Jesus, my old trusties are museum pieces :(.

yup mine too!
you would not believe the attitude, some climbers have to my Gear as I pass the bolted top roping stations by protecting the cracks, at the same places, with cams older than they are.
that and the looks!
Ive Passed around my #1 Original (pre US distribution) Wild Country Friends, Like it was Show and tell.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 4, 2016 - 12:49pm PT

I laid out a nice sampling of this older hardware at the first Oakdale Climbers Festival in 2012 and have acquired quite a bit since then.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1902674/Announcing-The-Oakdale-Climbers-Festival-10-26-10-28-2012

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Sep 4, 2016 - 02:06pm PT

Perhaps
CCB = C. Christen, Bern (town in Switzerland)
Where the person's first name started with C and Christen was their last name.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 4, 2016 - 04:30pm PT

Solid possibility Clint.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 5, 2016 - 10:47am PT

Searching around, I found one CCB Willisch ice axe and one CCB Schild ice axe. Both Willisch and Schild are old Swiss ice axe smiths. See the CCB Schild ice axe below.

This makes me think that CCB was mainly a seller (Sport/"Sporthaus") and not a smith.

I have many times seen the logo "Christen, Bern" on ice axes. One of them was a Bhend, Grindewald.

All items I have seen carrying the name "Christen, Bern" have been old items, and all items carrying the name CCB have been younger items.

I think I will follow Clint in his hypothesis:

There may be a connection between the name "Christen, Bern" and the name CCB

CCB may be the moderne form/name/logo for "Christen, Bern"

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Sep 5, 2016 - 04:17pm PT

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 5, 2016 - 08:13pm PT

Marlow- What do you know about Hupfauf gear? I believe I have the spelling correct.

I had a nice selection of pitons that I thought were CCB as they resembled their offerings closely and were from Switzerland. I laid them out at the first Oakdale Climbers Festival as such only to find out later that they came from Hupfauf by comparing stamp lettering.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 6, 2016 - 10:52am PT

Steve.

Hupfauf, Einsiedeln

Hupfauf were blacksmiths who started a factory in Einsiedeln, Switzerland. The first generation was Anton Hupfauf (1871-1916). The second generation was son Anton Hupfauf (1908-1993)

Anton the first was born in Fulpmes in the Tyrol region of Austria. After being trained as a blacksmith, he moved to Einsiedeln in Switzerland in 1898, and started as a blacksmith.

Initially the production was mainly farming tools and knives, but he gradually started to make ice axes and crampons. The products were exported to other countries. He won the gold medal in the Turin World's Fair, Italy in 1911. Founder Anton Hupfauf passed away because of an accident in 1916.

Until the second generation was old enough to manage the factory, a man named Melchior Ochsner, one of the employees, took over the management. In 1924 they possibly opened a shop and started to sell metal products and household goods there in addition to the factory.

Second generation Anton Hupfauf learned metal processing in Fulpmes Technical College in his father's hometown Fulpmes (Fulpmes Technical College). He graduated from there in 1926, and took over his father's factory in 1930.

Ice axes and crampons continued to be exported to foreign countries. During the Second World War they also delivered equipment to the army.

At most the factory had 15 employees. I think Hupfauf must have been very successful at their time. I have seen a catalogue from the 1920s where they had several ice axe lengths to choose among – 1, 2, 2,5, 3, 3,5, 4, 4,5, 5, 5,5, 6 and 7 and you could get the ice axe in every shaft length you wanted. They sold several models – Prima, Lion mark, and Marke Tödi. At least Prima and Lion mark had sub-catogories of axes – Grindelwald model, Walliser model, Swiss model. The ice axes are among the most common old axes that you find on the web today. The Hupfauf factory was closed after the war in 1948.

Einsiedeln Town is located at the northern foot of the Swiss alps, 30 km southeast of Zurich and 30 km from Luzern. The meaning of the name Einsiedeln is said to be “to live as a hermit”. There is an old Benedictiner monastry in the town. It is a famous pilgrimage site.

Main source: Thanks to nirayama.com and Mr. Suwabe.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 6, 2016 - 11:17am PT

Thanks Marlow.

So much for my thought that Hupfauf was the primary piton maker for CCB if they closed in 1948. Perhaps some of their smiths kept making pitons for CCB after that date. The mystery continues...

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 6, 2016 - 11:24am PT

Steve

If I have understood this right, the shop was open until 1979, many years after the factory was closed.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 6, 2016 - 11:38am PT

I wonder if Mr. Suwabe and Mr. Nirayama (?)would like to join this conversation?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 6, 2016 - 11:49am PT

Or Nobi? Nobi knows Mr. Suwabe.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 6, 2016 - 12:25pm PT

Marlow- If you are in contact with these gentlemen please see if they would be interested in joining the conversation as they obviously are very informed.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 6, 2016 - 12:50pm PT

Nobi is sometimes posting on the historical climbing gear threads. He will post if he wants to.

Here is a link to the story about the first start of the Japanese-Swiss climbing connection (There is also an American connection): http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2657087&msg=2657087#msg2657087

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 1, 2016 - 11:22am PT

Some older Quickdraws.

The carabiners are Cassin models.
The green-yellow slings are carrying the NeviSport Scotland logo.
The multi-coloured slings are possibly self-made.

NeviSport, Scotland

Founded in 1970 by a pair of highland climbers and outdoor instructors Ian A Sykes MBE and Ian D Sutherland, Nevisport (a ‘wee climbing shop’) started life with money saved by Sykes (a former member of the RAF Mountain Rescue Team) while serving as a base commander in the Falkland Islands on the British Antarctic Survey.

The first Nevisport occupied a small store at the west end of Fort William’s high street and was sustained financially during its first year by Sutherland, who continued to work full-time elsewhere while Sykes ran the shop day to day. Such was the success of the fledgling company it was soon forced to relocate to larger premises and subsequently opened a second store in Glasgow in 1974.

By the spring of 1982 Nevisport had moved its headquarters into a purpose built retail unit at the end of Fort William’s high street which remains the focal point of the town centre to this day and is still the company’s flagship store. Nevisport Fort William also incorporates a café and bar well used by walkers and climbers over the years as well as a gift shop catering for tourists. During the early 1990s the company moved into Edinburgh and also opened what is the UK’s highest outdoor shop on the western slopes of Aonach Mor at the top of the gondola at the Nevis Range ski centre. From the front door of what is arguably Britain’s only true ‘mountain’ shop, hardy visitors can ride one of the world’s best downhill mountain bike tracks, or ski Nevis Range’s fearsome Back Corries. Those looking for a slightly more sedate activity can also send a postcard from Britain’s highest post box!

In 1997 Nevisport continued its expansion by acquiring an English outdoor chain called Wilderness Ways and an independent store by the name of Nick Estcourts. Shortly afterwards Clive Rowland’s store in Aviemore and Marshall’s in Aberdeen were welcomed on board too, making Nevisport one of the biggest outdoor companies in the northern half of the UK.

Since those early days Nevisport has grown into one of the country’s leading outdoor retailers and in 2004 Sykes and Sutherland retired, leaving Nevisport as an established household name with stores stretching from Inverness in the north to Central England in the south.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 5, 2016 - 09:02am PT

This gear was sold under the name Klemmgeräte Unikate. If Unikate is their name or just to tell us that they are unique, I don't know. The seller had bought them in Sisterone, France, some years ago. I have seen this gear once before, posted by Nutstory on ST. The way they work is similar to the way the Edelrid Bivo works.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 7, 2016 - 06:14am PT

Marlow: the three camming devices on your first photograph are Kush; made by Mike Cuaz under the brand name The Blue Light. Mike has a little workshop in Sisteron, France.
The cam on your second photograph is an Edelrid Bivo, second generation.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Oct 7, 2016 - 07:50am PT

Yikes! No wonder they have to come to the States to learn to crack climb.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 7, 2016 - 08:42am PT

Mike Cuaz (The Blue Light) in his workshop in Sisteron.
http://vimeo.com/29549414

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 7, 2016 - 09:26am PT

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Nutstory. Much appreciated!

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 8, 2016 - 12:04am PT

Marlow, here are some more goodies for you...;-)

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 8, 2016 - 12:16am PT

Very cool... incredible collection...

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Oct 8, 2016 - 11:10am PT

The Blue Light items in the Karabin Museum came through Stephane years ago. My Kush compared to the Kush in Marlows photo has additional pull loops added between the finger and thumb triggers. The older design of the Kush has a extra steel tip added to give longer life to the device. I believe Mike Cuaz recreated his older style Kush device for Stephane and the Karabin Museum. I especially love the Kush devices because of how many different pieces were needed to make one device. A true labor of craftsmanship!

Cheers Stephane!

ClimbingOn

Trad climber

Oct 15, 2016 - 06:00pm PT

Who made this little camhook? No markings on it and a very different design.

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

Oct 16, 2016 - 12:28am PT

Sisteron is a fun little town to base out of for some climbing...

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Oct 19, 2016 - 06:25am PT

ClimbingOn - The small cam hook is a Yellow Dragon made by Moab Adventure Outfitters in Utah, Circa late 1990s. A Red Dragon hook was also created.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Oct 19, 2016 - 07:35pm PT

. . bitd knifeblade pulled off some obscurity today. anyone able to decipher the stamp? or recognize the embellished C?

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

Oct 19, 2016 - 07:59pm PT

Looks like a CMI?

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Oct 19, 2016 - 08:48pm PT

Yes, CMI.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Oct 19, 2016 - 08:50pm PT

yep you're right Brian! The angled main surface and the embellished C match the bugaboo style CMIS here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/321840/CMI-Pitons-Old-Valley-Dads
Thanks!

Damn Clint is quick!

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Oct 19, 2016 - 09:27pm PT

It doesn't seem like so long ago we might see one of those fixed and be glad it was so new!

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Oct 19, 2016 - 09:41pm PT

ha! my buddy clipped it (screamer and all) and went for it. we were both pretty surprised at how little contact it seemed to have had with the rock when I pulled it with a few taps from a little cobble.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 26, 2016 - 05:10am PT

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Nov 19, 2016 - 08:16pm PT

Stephane: That Diablo is very sweet!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Nov 19, 2016 - 08:22pm PT

Question: when did Doug Black start making climbing gear? Doug passed away March 12, 2016 and in Doug’s celebration letter it mentions that Doug was in the Navy then returned to the valley and opened his own welding shop in 1967. Doug is one of the founding members of the Arizona Mountaineering Club which started in 1964. The 1965 Eiger catalog shows Doug Black pitons for sale which specifies stainless steel rings. I have a Doug Black SS ring rap hanger from 1964, hand drill, and rappel rack from later 1960s. Does anybody know when Doug first started climbing and creating climbing gear?

Recently I obtained two first generation Doug Black angle pitons that have galvanized rings and welded ends. This shows that not all Doug Black rings were stainless steel.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Nov 19, 2016 - 08:25pm PT

Doug Black celebration letter

Come Join Us In A celebration of Doug's life .
Wednesday, March 23rd, 2016 from 5pm to 8 pm. at the
American Legion Post # 35 2240 West Chandler Blvd. Chandler, Az. 85224
outdoors at the Garden Pavilion area
( Just West of Dobson Rd. on Chandler Boulevard )

Website: http://www.legionpost35az.org/index.php?id=1
Map: https://goo.gl/maps/qnjx68ywjiz

Dress Casual and come mingle with all of his family and friends. Be sure to bring your best memories, jokes and stories along to share with us in celebration of his life.
There will be free food and beverages available for all and The Mountain Rescue Honor Guard will be performing a bagpipe salute to their fallen member along with other tributes to this great man's life.

Father, Business Owner, Rock Climbing pioneer in the Phoenix area and one of the founding members of the Arizona Mountaineering Club and the Central Arizona Mountain Rescue Association (CAMRA), and avid Sailor, passed away on Saturday, March 12th 2016 in Chandler after a long battle with Alzheimer's Disease. He is survived by his wife, Jeanne, children David Black-Gomes, Thomas “Tom” Black, John Black, Martin “Rand” Black and Susan Falcon as well as 6 Grand children and 4 Great Grand children.

Doug moved to the valley with his parents in 1950 from Minneapolis, MN and later served in the Navy aboard the aircraft carriers USS Hornet and USS Bon Home Richard. He returned to the valley and started his own welding shop in 1967, that specialized in steel stairs and railings and his specialty, custom spiral staircases. Always ready he worked with the 7th step foundation giving ex-convicts that much needed first job after they served their time in Arizona State prison.

Doug was one of the early members of the Arizona Mountaineering Club. He is remembered as a hero that along with other club members, was frequently called upon by Phoenix Fire Dept. to rescue stranded and injured hikers and climbers from Camelback Mtn., Piestewa Peak, Pinnacle Peak and the Superstition wilderness area, in the 60's. They later formed the Central Arizona Mountain Rescue Association (CAMRA) which became a Maricopa County Sheriffs Posse. He helped establish a rock climbing school along with other members of the Arizona Mountaineering club and later the Mountain Rescue Team, training men and women to properly and safely climb for sport. The team trained Phoenix Fire Dept., Pinal County Sheriffs, Grand Canyon Search and Rescue and other agencies in mountain climbing and mountain rescue techniques with CAMRA and he held Officer posts in both CAMRA and the National Mountain Rescue Association and helped to develop some of the technical hardware such as pulley and belay systems used to this day in Mountain Rescue. He brought the idea of using ATV wheels mounted on the stretchers for transporting victims through rugged terrain to the valley after seeing one at a National Mountain Rescue Conference in Washington state and was the first to begin mounting them on stretchers for use here in the valley. They are now standard equipment for Search and Rescue teams everywhere.

As a sailor, Doug bought his first boat while in the Navy and smuggled it on board the Aircraft carrier. He would break it out when they were moored in port and sail around as much as he could. In the 60's the family purchased several sailboats including a Coronado 15' which they regularly sailed on Lake Pleasant. He joined the Arizona Yacht Club (yeah you probably didn't know such a thing existed) and along with his son, John, they raced the boat in regattas at Lake Pleasant with the club.

Doug sold his business and home in 1978 and bought a fully ocean ready Coronado 41' Sailboat in Michigan and sailed it through the Great Lakes, the Erie Canal, down the East coast, through the Gulf of Mexico, The Panama Canal and up the West coast to Ventura Ca.. where he lived and sailed for several years taking trips as far away as Hawaii and British Columbia. He frequently sailed the Channel Islands off the California coast, one of his favorite places. In 1986 he bought land in Steinhatchee, Fl. and moved the boat there. He remained there for 21 years, starting his Wrought Iron company back up and volunteering with the local fire dept. until 2014 when his health brought him back to Arizona to stay with his son, John in Chandler.

R.B.

Big Wall climber

47N 122W

Nov 21, 2016 - 07:34pm PT

Marty, Thank you for posting up my fathers remembrance letter. I have some of his older climbing gear. I remember Dad describing how he manufactured the "rappel rings." One publication stated they would hold 4500 lbs static; pretty strong weld. Anyways, drop me an email sometime if you wish.
Rand Black

couchmaster

climber

Nov 21, 2016 - 07:48pm PT

Marty - your pic is kind of small and not to question your intelligence- which on climbing relating things is world class and way above my pay grade. But your words: "Recently I obtained two first generation Doug Black angle pitons that have galvanized rings and welded ends. This shows that not all Doug Black rings were stainless steel."

How do you know this is right? Did you test them? A magnet will stick hard on 400 series stainless (high tensile stainless) exactly as if it was high alloy steel. Those rings on Blacks pitons may in fact be 420 stainless steel. All welders know that Galvanization is deadly to breath once hit by the heat of a weld, no matter the type of weld. They DO NOT want to weld on it although they will if they have to do so to repair something in a critical application. This was a mfg application, not a critical repair. You are saying that Black ignored this conventional wisdom and welded on Galvanized steel? When this does occur, there is usually an appearance change as the galvanized coating burns off and leaves bare (based steel) metal whi9ch quickly rusts to a deeper brown butted up against the lighter grey coating. Welding 400 series stainless will not cause that appearance conflict/change.

I'm a shitty welder, so am probably wrong, but if you haven't already, you might consider checking the material to verify or eliminate 420 stainless steel so as to not change history in error?

Rand Black - thanks for showing up. Marty will be contacting you I'm sure. Speaking for the rest of us, any stories of your dad you'd like to share, Anything at all. In my opinion, the best stuff on this web site is historical ramblings and remembrances of back when. It's what makes the site awesome.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Nov 23, 2016 - 08:13am PT

Rand - Its the holidays, lets talk about family! Talk to you soon.

Couchmaster - I am not a metal expert but the rings on the old Doug Black angles look like the rings on half of the other pitons I have. Maybe just metal with a gray non rust coating? The newer Doug Black rings retain their shimmer and shine even after 50 years of natures weathering. The magnet sticks to the ring. So I have not tested the older Doug Black rings to see it they are truly SS, but comparing the old and new Doug Black rings there is an obvious difference. The first generation pitons were purchased directly by Wally Vegors from Doug Black.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Dec 1, 2016 - 11:37am PT

Edelrid Amigo

Edelrid Twin Cam

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Dec 1, 2016 - 12:00pm PT

Some mythical climbing shoes

PAs

EB Super Gratton

La Sportiva Mariacher

La Sportiva Mirage

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Dec 3, 2016 - 06:33am PT

Marlow - Edelrid Amigo 1983 Germany created by Rudolf Springmann.

Edelrid Twin Cam. 1985 Germany (Info from the Karabin-Pennequin Masters Challenge): Available in sizes 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2, 3. Available in different colored slings, This cam nut uses the same lobes as the Edelrid Bivo cam devices. Created by Bernt Prause.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Dec 3, 2016 - 09:18am PT

Brilliant. Thanks, Marty!

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Dec 4, 2016 - 01:02am PT

No mystery, but some cool old cams sold now: Splitter Gear Rock Climbing Cam Set, 2 & 4 Lobes - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Splitter-Gear-Rock-Climbing-Cam-Set-2-4-Lobes-/112225385977?hash=item1a21277df9:g:3qkAAOSw5cNYQ6mh

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Dec 7, 2016 - 07:04am PT

Patent DE 32 45 893 Rudolf Springmann 14 June 1984

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Dec 7, 2016 - 08:55pm PT

Dingus - The spring on the Edelrid Amigo is so tough, it could second for automobile springs! I don't know how that device could be placed and removed one handed. Outstanding collectors piece for sure! The one I have came from Stephane.

nutstory - Stephane your Amigos and Twin Cams are so clean and beautiful!

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Dec 8, 2016 - 12:59am PT

In 1983, in Germany, Edelrid produced the Amigo, in two sizes, which worked on the same principle of a wedge sliding on another. Designed for medium cracks, 36 to 52 mm, one needed a third hand to place them, that brushed aside quite a number of potential users living on our planet.

Nuts' Story: Clockwork Friends ;-)

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Dec 17, 2016 - 08:53am PT

Mystery shoes looking old - what model?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 17, 2016 - 10:10am PT

Looks like a very lovingly reinforced pair of Fires or very late model EBs to me. Beyond that I have no real good idea.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jan 4, 2017 - 04:28am PT

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jan 5, 2017 - 01:50am PT

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Feb 13, 2017 - 11:26am PT

Very cool...

Here's an example of KISS construction: Grivel Abalakov thread hook

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Feb 13, 2017 - 11:49am PT

Old Stubai ice climbing pitons:

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Feb 13, 2017 - 12:33pm PT

Guess who?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 15, 2017 - 01:20pm PT

Looks like a Universal style piton so I would guess Maestri/Egger since you are the one asking, Jim.

EdBannister

Mountain climber

13,000 feet

Feb 18, 2017 - 06:57pm PT

bump

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Feb 18, 2017 - 09:45pm PT

Egger's shinbone pounded into a crack by Cesare!

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Feb 24, 2017 - 10:00am PT

Early Edlinger Dolomites: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCARPE-ARRAMPICATA-DOLOMITE-Patrick-Edlinger-mis-45-1-2-/182434592688?hash=item2a79f2f7b0:g:LlAAAOSwLnBXXp~0

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Feb 25, 2017 - 01:54am PT

Here you see an Exentric 8. There is no Camp sign anywhere on the Exentric and no Chouinard sign. Excentrik has first been stamped into the metal, letter by letter, using a K as the last letter and the K has then been changed to a C.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 25, 2017 - 10:22am PT

Those letters are individually stamped and the 8 is tiny so that isn't a commercial marking on that nut. It may have been an unstamped second that someone finished on their own. The end cuts look to be too close to the sling holes too. Definitely an unusual nut. Is it one of yours?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Feb 25, 2017 - 10:29am PT

Yes, I bought it at the same time as I bought some others that were marked Camp and Exentric in the usual professional way. And Exentric is still the name, not Hexentric.

The 8 looks professionally made, not handstamped.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 25, 2017 - 02:01pm PT

Looking at the ends of the nut, does the extrusion thickness and profile look the same as the others that you bought?

Studly

Trad climber

Feb 25, 2017 - 02:19pm PT

Could be one of the original prototypes?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Feb 26, 2017 - 02:38am PT

"Does the extrusion thickness and profile look the same as the others that you bought"

No, there is a difference both in form and thickness. The outer measures of the two Exentrics are exactly the same.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Feb 26, 2017 - 08:00pm PT

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Feb 26, 2017 - 11:45pm PT

MAMMUT (Swiss) Coinceurs Perrin (1990) Invented and designed by Gilbert Perrin. Patent CH681139A, 29 January 1993. Made in Czech Republic.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Mar 22, 2017 - 08:10pm PT

thanks stephane!

here is an easy one for the old salts. what the hell is this

i saw one of those stubai ice ring pitons pounded into a driled hole today

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 22, 2017 - 09:12pm PT

That's a masonry anchor Cowboy. I think Harvey Carter was the first person that I am aware of to use those on sandstone routes in the Fischer Towers.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Mar 22, 2017 - 11:18pm PT

Thanks SG! I believe that the Fishers were the first place I ever saw such leaden soft steel with the two-part integral jacket/hanger with nail. This one appeared to leave some further amount of sleeve/jacket material behind when I pulled it.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 24, 2017 - 05:33pm PT

Marlow- definitely two different extrusions which is why I asked. I wonder where yours originated? Anyone have a stamped match for this atypical profile?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 25, 2017 - 12:44am PT

Steve.

I have no idea where it originated. The hand stamped Exentri-k/-c came with the ordinary Camp Exentrics and these three mystery nuts:

If I should guess, they are all connected to Camp.

The nuts don't carry a single sign of their name or origin. The one in the middle is clearly made of a different more grey metal mix than the two others.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Apr 13, 2017 - 03:15am PT

Not very old and possible not a mystery, but fascinating nontheless - Camp Interalp descender for use at work:

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Apr 13, 2017 - 05:54am PT

Dahu might well confirm the following information:
Discensore "JOB", 1980 (Art. 656.000)

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Apr 13, 2017 - 09:48am PT

Nutstory

Thanks to you and Dahu. That's surely as exact as it can be.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 13, 2017 - 11:49am PT

Marlow- Those last three mystery nuts would be someone's attempt to work out the best taper angle for a stopper type nut early on or a very inept attempt at copying existing designs as they have no second side taper. As prototypes they wouldn't be stamped. Was there anything else that is of 1960s era age in the lot of gear?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Apr 13, 2017 - 12:04pm PT

The three mystery nuts came with the hand-stamped Exentri-c/-k and three ordinary machine-stamped Camp Exentrics.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 13, 2017 - 12:30pm PT

The mystery continues...

Tom Frost called the three attitude Hexentric the "Eccentric" Hexentric.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Apr 21, 2017 - 03:17pm PT

One day left on ebay and already hitting $225.00. LONGware 5" aluminum bong. Its beautiful!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 21, 2017 - 10:50pm PT

Already have one...

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 4, 2017 - 08:51am PT

No mystery, but cool nuts:

Salewa Bi-caps

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 4, 2017 - 08:54am PT

Edited: Simond Bicams

I got the help I needed with the name of the model.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 4, 2017 - 09:07am PT

Here I am! ;-)

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 4, 2017 - 09:22am PT

Nutstory.

Aha.. Bicam(s) is the model...

and...

what an incredible collection...

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 4, 2017 - 09:26am PT

what an incredible collection...

just time, passion, good friends, and... a comprehensive family... ;-)
edit: 1 Bicam, 2 Bicams

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 10, 2017 - 06:41am PT

Nutstory and Marlow - What history do you have on these? They both have the same swag as the Simond Bicams, but one only has a number and the other looks like it is painted blue with the words "ELITE"

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 10, 2017 - 06:45am PT

I also notice that the Simond nuts have two different colors. Different generations?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 10, 2017 - 06:50am PT

With the Simond Asymetrics I notice that the holes for the cord on some are drilled far apart, and on others they are close together.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 10, 2017 - 06:53am PT

Some Simond Chocks have the letter "N" and some do not. Different generations? Does "N" stand for Number?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 10, 2017 - 06:54am PT

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 10, 2017 - 07:56am PT

The Simond Bicoins anodised in red come from the first generation, 1976. The Simond Bicoins anodised in purple came onto the market a couple of years later.
Yes Marty, "N" stands for number (numéro in French)

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 14, 2017 - 10:51pm PT

I have not seen this hammer before. Was this made for rock climbing?

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

May 15, 2017 - 03:59am PT

It's a
Multitasker,
Its for rock climbering in places where you may have to fight off orcs!

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

May 15, 2017 - 04:39am PT

As my sleepless night progressed I tried to find similar hammerIt seems that maybe, if it has a lanyard hole, it may be climbing specific but I did not find anything?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 15, 2017 - 06:43am PT

Seal Brands "Fire Streak" Piton Hammer. I feel like it is used for construction of some sort over being used for rock climbing. It does not look like a good design, and after prying on it for a while the head looks like it will come loose. This hammer is presently on ebay.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 15, 2017 - 11:56am PT

Something for the karabin museum? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TROLL-OMNI-Rock-Climbing-Trousers-/232330051757?hash=item3617f340ad:g:l9MAAOSwfRdZEsMr

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 15, 2017 - 08:07pm PT

Wow Marlow I have not seen these pants yet. For the museum that has it all.....hmmmmm...

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 16, 2017 - 07:34am PT

Marty- That same seller had a batch of pitons made by a blacksmith friend so that hammer is likely a one off just like the pitons.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 23, 2017 - 10:47am PT

Mystery nuts carrying no name or logo.
Heavy.
Great diversity of shapes.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 23, 2017 - 12:05pm PT

Looks like a nice set of home made nuts to me rather than prototypes.
Where did they come from?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 23, 2017 - 01:12pm PT

I bought them from a seller in Barton-upon-Humber in the UK. They came with Stubai, Cassin and Chouinard pitons, a couple of Troll and Clog nuts etc. A couple of small but very heavy nuts followed. They were dark in color and started to get green, like the greening you see on copper.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 23, 2017 - 01:22pm PT

Here's the dark nuts

They are small, but very heavy for their size...

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 23, 2017 - 04:06pm PT

Steve - You are correct. That hammer was in the same ebay sale as the sculpted piton lot. So possibly that hammer was homemade. Heres the photo of the homemade piton set, which is a cool set.

Marlow - Cool nuts. Looks like somebody with passion created them, but do they look like they were ever placed on a route?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 23, 2017 - 05:11pm PT

The heavy ones are likely brass. It will be interesting to see what Meastro Pennequin thinks they are.

Marty- Of course I am correct when I brought this to your attention. Duh...

Juan Maderita

Trad climber

"OBcean" San Diego, CA

May 24, 2017 - 12:43am PT

Marty,
The handle of that strange hammer (pictured in your 5-14-2017 post) appears to be a replacement. Seal Brands made hickory replacement handles. Here is a 1959 trade catalog:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1959-Trade-Catalog-SET-Brochures-034-SEAL-BRANDS-HICKORY-TOOL-HANDLES-034-Advertising-/122497984795
The print on photo #1 shows the "Firestreak" model with qualities of "Average Service, Fire Finish, Hickory"

This should be a more permanent link to company info:
https://archive.org/details/LaPierreSawyerHandleCo

Sorry, no clue as to the head of the hammer.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

May 24, 2017 - 07:13am PT

Still on eBay? 1952,

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 24, 2017 - 07:25am PT

Marty- Of course I am correct when I brought this to your attention. Duh...

You know Steve sometimes it is very difficult communicating with you. My neck continually gets sore because you are so high up on your pedestal. I enjoy peacefully dialing in the history of climbing gear while you tend to sell your ego within your comments. Being human to me is enjoyable because it allows progression. Gods tend to stand firm on their correctness and then scorn individuals when proven incorrect.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 24, 2017 - 08:38am PT

Marty- We are talking about connecting the dots on an ebay listing here. No godliness is required.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 24, 2017 - 01:29pm PT

The mystery nuts above belonged to a climber who is now in his 80s. He was a good climber in his 30s, climbing all over the world. I am checking if it is alright that I mention his name (in case some of you know him).

With the other equipment there followed a Karrimor Alpiniste Whillans rucksack who had served it's owner very well.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 26, 2017 - 06:15am PT

The mystery stoppers were made by Alan Grainger at Twinlocks in New Zealand 50 years ago

The mystery stoppers, also posted on the last page, have a story to tell. They were made by Alan Grainger around 50 years ago when he worked at a place called Twinlocks in New Zealand. Alan was also a wrestler until an injury made him choose climbing. In his 30s he was a very skilled climber. The stoppers have been used all over the mountainous part of New Zealand, where he did a lot of moderate to hard routes (at the time). Alan is today 80 years old.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 26, 2017 - 08:12am PT

Marlow- Nice find and background information. The perlon on those nuts reminds me of what was available in the early 1970s when I started climbing.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 26, 2017 - 08:55am PT

I agree with Steve; what a wonderful collection!!!

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 26, 2017 - 09:02am PT

If there's a serious museum interested of these jewels, I will donate them. Nutstory?

D-Storm

climber

Carbondale, CO

May 26, 2017 - 09:05am PT

There is a museum for this stuff. Contact this place, which is based in the UK: http://www.needlesports.com/content/nuts-museum.aspx

More good history about passive pro development here:
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web17w/wfeature-roland-pauligk-obit

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 26, 2017 - 09:10am PT

If there's a serious museum interested of these jewels, I will donate them. Nutstory?

Marlow, I can't believe it...:-)
D-Storm: Needle Sports is based in the UK... the Nuts Museum... (it's me...) is based in... Corsica!
Stephen Reid, the owner of Needle Sports in Keswick, kindly hosts my webpages on his website.
edit: I modestly contributed to the moving tribute to Roland Pauligk written by Ross Taylor.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 26, 2017 - 09:40am PT

Nutstory

The ST PM function is unreliable, so maybe Dahu could send me your shipping information?

I will ask if Alan can remember exactly when he made the stoppers.

There is three more in the set. See below. These are lighter and possibly later.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 26, 2017 - 09:49am PT

Marlow: I'm just calling to Dahu at the moment about your very kind proposal.
He is going to send you my address... Many, many thanks for such an impressive donation!
From the historical point of view, the nuts made by Alan Grainger around 50 years ago in New Zealand are most interesting. John Ewbank made and marketed his Crackers in Australia in… 1968!
If Alan could add some more information on the history, it would be splendid.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 27, 2017 - 07:45am PT

Marlow, I am wondering if the nut ringed in black would not be a MOAC Original Chock...
Its rope does not match the ropes of the other nuts made by Alan Grainger.
With such a hypothesis, I can now figure out the other nuts which are really impressive.
Master Grossman, any comments...? ;-)

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 27, 2017 - 08:20am PT

Nutstory

I think all the stoppers are made by Alan Grainger, but I could be wrong. In case I'm wrong, an original Moac would be a nice addition. The nuts were all posted this morning and Dahu will supply you with the tracking information. Enjoy!

I have sent a few questions to Alan. One of them is if he can remember what year he made the stoppers. Another is what inspired him when he made them. Alan himself is no PC user, but he is getting help. Alan will probably answer on Tuesday or Wednesday next week.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 27, 2017 - 08:29am PT

Marlow, I do not have any climbing items made in New Zealand in the collection, so the nuts that you send me are an invaluable treasure for the Nuts Museum. Again, I thank you very much for your interest in my work on the history of the nuts and, most of all, for your kindness. As soon as your package reaches Corsica, I will let you know if the nut is a MOAC Original Chock...;-)
Any background information or anecdotes that Alan could tell us would be of great value.

Mark Force

Trad climber

Ashland, Oregon

May 27, 2017 - 08:33am PT

Anybody still making that MOAC shape?

MOACs were magical.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

May 27, 2017 - 08:36am PT

Nutstory

From the stories I have heard till now more than one book could be written about his life. He has been a globetrotter and vagabond besides being a climber...

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 27, 2017 - 10:11am PT

Marlow- History lives here so kindly share what you have discovered about this glorious nutcrafter or see if the venerable gentleman will come on and tell his own story with some help from a younger techno savant.

Looks like an early cast MOAC to me.

Mark- Dust off your Foxheads brother and ease the edges. I haven't seen such a radically tapered nut offered in several decades.

Mark Force

Trad climber

Ashland, Oregon

May 27, 2017 - 01:11pm PT

"Somebody" should cast an old one and put em out.

Some of the magic of MOACs I think was the relative softness of the metal - the bite made them sticky and stable.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 27, 2017 - 03:32pm PT

Lots of them out in the world if you really have to have one on your rack. Since they were cast and not machined from extruded stock,they were definitely stickier than most other nuts.
The Chouinard-Frost Stopper taper turned out to be more versatile especially in granite.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

May 27, 2017 - 05:50pm PT

Marlow - Cool that the nuts are headed to Corsica!

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 29, 2017 - 07:56am PT

Probably not the right place to post such a photograph.
On the other hand, it might well help to identify old "mystery" Friends...

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 29, 2017 - 09:26am PT

Very cool that you have one of Ray's prototypes with the trigger bar lock. If you look at the curvature of the cam on that one does it look like the others?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

May 29, 2017 - 09:36am PT

Here it is! And yes Steve, I am very fortunate to have such a jewel.
Ray sent it to me in 1996.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jun 1, 2017 - 12:27pm PT

Do you know the origin of theses steel carabiners? I have seen similar locking sleeves on Pierre Allain aluminium carabiners, but have no idea if there is a connection. These locking sleeves may have been used by other makers.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jun 1, 2017 - 07:09pm PT

Without a stamp of some sort we are all pretty much guessing. The gate detail does resemble Allain locking biners but the milling pattern on the sleeve doesn't match the ones I have.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jun 3, 2017 - 06:05am PT

Welcome to Corsica Alan Grainger!!!
Here, again, I would like to express all my gratitude to Marlow for this outstanding contribution.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jun 20, 2017 - 10:51am PT

Nutstory

On the last page you posted this photo showing the development of the WC Friends logo

I am no collector of cams, but has ended up accepting Friends (the first cams) into my collection. Recently I found a 1978/1 Friend which is a bit different from the one you posted. I have not been able to take a good photo, but have drawn the difference on your photo below. The difference is where FRIEND is placed on the shaft. My exemplar is Friend nr. 3, not nr. 1.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jun 21, 2017 - 08:37am PT

Yes Marlow, it seems that "FRIEND" moved from place to place on early Wild Country camming devices...

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jun 23, 2017 - 06:18am PT

Presently on ebay........332274572524

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jun 23, 2017 - 07:08am PT

Impressive... really fascinating!
So, this one just would be... the second prototype.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jun 23, 2017 - 08:02am PT

Interesting and likely very expensive piece. I wonder who the seller is beyond Sue from Ventura?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jun 25, 2017 - 04:04pm PT

Presently on ebay......322567559650

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jun 25, 2017 - 04:12pm PT

Marlow - The closest carabiner I can find to yours is shown in the Ellis Brigham catalog from the early 1970s. Maybe Stubai or Hiatt. Other close carabiners are Bonaitti.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jun 25, 2017 - 08:34pm PT

Marlow- Those carabiners look like they may have been fabricated to clip into pipe or cable and weren't intended for climbing use so they may be custom made rather than something off the shelf.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jun 25, 2017 - 10:34pm PT

Steve.

I think you are right about that. They are bygger than usual climbing carabiners too.

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Jun 25, 2017 - 11:13pm PT

Tree climbers, high voltage workers, steel building assemblers, and others who climb commercially tend to use big carabiners that look like Marlow's. Their gear is heavy, their harnesses look like WW II parachute rigs, and sometimes they clip in between their shoulder blades.

The stainless construction might have been from a navy ship, offshore oil rig, or other maritime industry. Or, they might date to the heyday of stainless steel, c. 1970, when chromium was so plentiful, it was even applied to automobile bumpers.

Here is an industrial carabiner that weighs two pounds, and costs more than $600.

INDUSTRIAL CLIMBING GEAR WEBSITE

If you need a Jumar that works on steel cable, that website sells one.

EDIT:

From a photo on the previous page:

The magnesium cam lobes of the Jardine #4 prototype are corroded, which is typical for magnesium. Corrosion was one of the reasons I stopped making magnesium Valley Giants. The corrosion would puff up, and cause the lobes to get sticky and not want to move.

VW and Porsche specified that after cleaning and rebuilding their magnesium engine cases, they were to be coated in cosmoline, or some other durable coating, to protect them from corrosion. VW and Porsche both discontinued using magnesium for their air-cooled engine cases, and switched over to aluminum.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jun 26, 2017 - 07:08am PT

Marlow, can you post a photo of the carabiners next to a common oval carabiner to show the size difference.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jun 28, 2017 - 08:21am PT

Not a mystery, but an old pro...

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 4, 2017 - 10:59am PT

Marlow - Maybe your mystery carabiner is the one shown in the 1955 Sporthaus Schuster catalog item # 3912b - 195g. Maybe the artist drew the drawing incorrect where the gate actually opened into the larger side of the carabiner.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 4, 2017 - 11:18am PT

Hi Marty.

Below you see the mystery carabiner and an ordinary sized DMM carabiner.

Sorry for the late answer.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 4, 2017 - 03:05pm PT

Marlow - Yes it is a mystery carabiner! Looks like some kind of construction tool! Thanks for posting it and I will keep it in mind as some day the answer to this mystery will surface. Fun!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 14, 2017 - 10:07pm PT

Presently on ebay. The large carabiner in this photo is from AustriAlpin

The AustriAlpin catalog lists that carabiner as Industrial Fire Brigade Karabiner. Comparing it to the one shown in the ebay photo, it looks like it was available with or without the directional bar.

Scrubber

climber

Straight outta Squampton

Jul 15, 2017 - 07:33am PT

They're also used for attaching fall protection to structures like scaffold (or fire truck booms) before scaff-hooks were common. If the gate opening is just over 2 inches, I'd suspect that sort of industrial application.

K

Timmc

climber

Jul 15, 2017 - 08:58am PT

[photoid=504420]

Found these below Cerro Torre last year
Maybe not a mystery but any thoughts on the Biner?

Love this thread. Thanks

Timmc

climber

Jul 15, 2017 - 09:03am PT

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 15, 2017 - 11:36am PT

Timmc:

I have a similar piton to the little one. The one I have is a Stubai.

My new old gear:

Lately I was lucky and got the opportunity to buy a collection of old nuts. They were bought from Mike who started climbing seriously in the late 1960's whilst at college and carried on into the early 1980's.

All his experience was in the UK, mainly in the Lake District (especially Langdale Pike area), The Peak District and North Wales.

His gear was bought in Frank Davies' "The Climber's Shop" in the village of Ambleside in the Lake District from about 1967 to 1970.

Before they had money to buy nuts like these, they started out using ordinary nuts from the hardware shop and filing out the screw thread.

Here you see "The Climber's Shop" in Ambleside: http://www.climbers-shop.com/about-us.aspx

And here's the gear I bought from Mike:

There's both an original and a first generation Moac.

There's also a mystery nut low down on the left side of the photo. Do anybody know anything about this mystery nut?

Timmc

climber

Jul 15, 2017 - 02:51pm PT

Marlow:

I thought that those little ones were possibly bolts from the compressor route???
Looks like some sort of wedge.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 15, 2017 - 09:11pm PT

Timmc - The fat carabiner may be a early Chouinard carabiner. The piton bolts are from Stubai. The bolt pitons were available with the wedge, or as a removable bolt piton with no wedge, two different styles.

Marlow - Your question mark hex may be a Eiger. Not sure who made the mystery nut you have circled. I wonder if it is a nut, or a wedge that is pounded into a crack.

Timmc

climber

Jul 16, 2017 - 05:30am PT

Karabin museum: thank you.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 16, 2017 - 09:28am PT

Marty.

The nut with question mark arrived with Clog and Troll nuts from 1967-70 and I am quite sure the question nut is British. But it is not exactly like the Troll nuts and only one of the holes are placed centrally on the nut. The other hole is off center, though both holes have a very regular shape. My guess is that it is an early Clog nut/hex.

Then more mystery. The nuts below have arrived one by one and always with other Clog nuts. But these nuts are not carrying the Clog logo or any other logo and their shape is different from other Clog nuts. The upper part of the nuts have unusually rounded corners. They are all the same size. Do you know what model these are?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 16, 2017 - 11:21am PT

Marlow - Those nuts look like Baby Moac's from 1969/1970. The question mark hex looks like it was originally made to be wired and it is missing the wire. The hex holes for cord is usually closer together where on the wire hexes the holes are further apart. So could be Clog or Troll wired #1 or #2?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 16, 2017 - 12:32pm PT

Thanks, Marty. Seeing the Baby Moac, I'm quite sure that is what it is.

DanaB

climber

Jul 16, 2017 - 12:46pm PT

The carabiner looks a bit like '70s era Bonnati.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 16, 2017 - 01:40pm PT

DanaB

It could be a Bonaiti carabiner. Maybe Timmc can find some letters on the carabiner.

The name would be Bonaiti, I think, not Bonatti. Today the name of the company is Kong:

The origins of Kong starts from afar, exactly around 1830 in a workshop at the foot of the Alps, where Giuseppe Bonaiti gave rise to our story, writing important pages for Made in Italy.
The attention for maximum protection of the human lives, together with the dreams that men "hang" climbing the peaks, led Bonaiti to export all over the world his products and philosophy.
His carabiners have become real fixed points for everyone who practice vertical disciplines.
In 1977 Bonaiti company changed its name to Kong, but the mission remains the same: "Being a manufacturer of safety where the risk is the protagonist"

To read more: https://www.kong.it/en/3-company/4-history

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 16, 2017 - 05:07pm PT

I know it seems weird but my first impression was a Bonaiti, but the Chouinard fits the profile perfectly. The carabiner body in the photo varies in thickness so the carabiner was molded. The early Bonaiti used a round stock so the thickness stayed the same throughout the entire Bonaiti carabiner body. The fat early Bonaiti carabiners had rounded gate tops. The Chouinard carabiner mfg stamp was not marked very well, however the Chouinard carabiner shown in the photo has somebody's initials carved into the gate where the original carabiner gate is manufactured with no markings. The Chouinard carabiners first came out in the late 1950s and were sold through the early 1960s worldwide.

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Jul 16, 2017 - 05:24pm PT

Marty & Timmc: I thought early Chouinard biner too, when I saw that photo. And as Marty knows, that style was manufactured up until Chouinard changed to this biner style in 1968.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 16, 2017 - 07:47pm PT

I recently purchased a few items from ebay. One was a hammer and pitons from code name Fritz. Not sure if ebay Fritz is associated with Supertopo Fritz. The pitons are old Fritsch & Cie and the smaller ice piton is marked made in Austria. The larger ice piton is unmarked but looks more manufactured than homemade. I mostly wanted the hammer since it is the one that is displayed in the 1958 REI catalog. Listed only as made in Austria. I know on Supertopo in past threads other climbers have inquired about this unmarked hammer that maybe was mfgd by Stubai or Salewa. I wonder if REI purposely told the factory in Austria to not brand the hammer, and to create it special to the REI co op?

A second hammer is listed also in the 1958 REI catalog where another ebay auction came up and I was able to obtain the hammer. This hammer still has a REI price tag on it which helps with the mystery. The second hammer is smaller and the handle is marked made in Austria. It has the same hammer head as the 1958 catalog shows but the handle is a later 1960s design. The price on the sticker shows it sold in the mid 1970s, but how long did it actually sit on the store shelf? This second smaller hammer is different than a Stubai hammer since the head is not square and actually tapers from one end to the other before dropping into a point. I am not sure what other manufacturers there were creating hammer heads in Austria which makes me think these hammers were not made by Stubai. On the REI 1973 catalog shown it lists other manufacturers names on products including Stubai, Salewa, and Chouinard, but still this smaller hammer is listed as only, …made in Austria.

Any thoughts on who was making the Austrian hammers for the REI co op? Do you think that Stubai was creating these different shape unmarked hammer heads exclusively for only REI’s use?

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Jul 16, 2017 - 07:53pm PT

Marty! Re your question:

Not sure if ebay Fritz is associated with Supertopo Fritz.

Nope.

I'm 8ray on EBay.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 17, 2017 - 02:24am PT

Marlow, the chock (n°2) on the bottom left of the photograph of the nuts which you acquired is not a MOAC Original Chock.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 17, 2017 - 07:57am PT

When you say so, Stephane, I know you're right. It is a privilege to be proven wrong. Is it a MOAC? What model? The nut was bought 1967-70. See the photos of the nut below. It is very well made...

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 17, 2017 - 08:16am PT

Marlow, I must confess that this nut puzzles me a little. It would be interesting to have the same good photograph of this nut near a MOAC Original Chock. I know that, mounted on 9 mm rope, other sizes could be obtained by filing them down to reduce their thickness.

Timmc

climber

Jul 17, 2017 - 08:21am PT

When I get home i will see if I can see any markings on the biner. It looks like the Chouinard shape and the date Maestri was active (1959) lines up with that possibility.

Any tricks to reveal markings?

Thanks
Tim

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 17, 2017 - 08:34am PT

At your wish - the mystery nut above with an early generation 1 MOAC.

This generation 1 MOAC is a cool item. It rolls whatever position I put it in.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 17, 2017 - 08:43am PT

When I did the FA of Torre Egger we climbed the "supposed" 1959 Maestri/Egger line to the Col of Conquest. We found many arifacts in the first 300 meters leading to a prominent snowfied....this turned out to be their highpoint.
The previous year I found the remains of Toni Egger where the glacier from the base of Cerro Torre bottomed out on the flat, dry glacier.
There were many artifacts so finding additional ones would be no surprise.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 17, 2017 - 08:56am PT

So marlow, your chock is a genuine Old Mystery Pro, and... a magnificent sample!

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Jul 17, 2017 - 09:49am PT

Timmc! Re your question:

Any tricks to reveal markings?

24 hours in vinegar & then a little light scrubbing with dish soap or Bartender's Friend & a plastic Scothbrite pad, works wonders on oxidized old biners.

If it is an early Chouinard, this is what you are looking for.
CHOUINARD will be very-faint & hard to see on one side, per this photo.

820 & ALCOA should be much more distinct on the opposite side.

Timmc

climber

Jul 17, 2017 - 09:52am PT

Wow Jim, that's a startling photo of Toni Egger's remains.

I also found a big cache of gear above the Nunatak that contained all kinds of stuff from early Patagonia clothing to ropes of different generations.
It likely melted out.

Will dig up some photos...

Timmc

climber

Jul 17, 2017 - 10:06am PT

Thanks Fritz. Can't wait to do this.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 17, 2017 - 10:40am PT

Donini - Jim, what did you do with the Toni Egger artifacts? I hope you donated them to a museum or something. They are awesome especially the leg bone in the boot!!! So very cool!!!

Marlow and Stephane - The nut shape looks like a very large Gendarme which the cord holes were more rounded out. Mystery nut for sure!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 17, 2017 - 11:05am PT

In the 1958 REI catalog it has two listings under the hammer showing one is Austrian (1 1/4lb) and one is Swiss (1 3/4lb). So I visited the post office this morning and they weighed the hammer for me showing it weighs in at one pound 4.4 ounces (20.4 oz), so it is the Austrian hammer which I have and is the one pictured in the REI catalog. The Swiss hammer weighs a 1/2 pound more....dang! Possibly the Swiss hammer and the Austrian hammer look alike?

Now the question is....what company in Austria created the unmarked Austrian hammers for REI?

Timmc

climber

Jul 18, 2017 - 08:24am PT

Here a a few photos of the gear I found near Cerro Torre:

Timmc

climber

Jul 18, 2017 - 08:26am PT

Timmc

climber

Jul 20, 2017 - 09:00am PT

Hey Fritz,

I have that old biner soacking on vinegar , but I can totally make out
820 and ALCOA- so a Choiunard for sure

I also found this on the glacier below Cerro Torre:

Old ice screw I suspect.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 20, 2017 - 09:13am PT

Yes, an ice srew...I actually used srews nearly identical to that in the late 60's.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 20, 2017 - 09:36am PT

It's possibly an old Stubai Marwa ice screw, though it is hard to see all the features from the photo. I think the Marwa was the first commercially available ice screw.

Marty has posted pictures earlier on ST: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1343654&msg=1376819#msg1376819

It could also be a Charlet Moser like the one Fritz posted earlier, though there's a clear difference at the top of the head: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1540620&msg=1540912#msg1540912

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 20, 2017 - 06:20pm PT

I am not sure who made that ice screw. The Stubai Marwa is pictured on the top of this photo and I am not sure who makes the other shown third down. You can see both are different than the Timmc mystery ice screw.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jul 20, 2017 - 07:32pm PT

Marty- Your hammer is likely made by Austrialpin who maddeningly doesn't stamp their gear except "MADE IN AUSTRIA".
The third ice screw down in your photo should be a Charlet-Moser.
The mystery screw looks like a Marwa but with a welded rather than wrapped eye detail which I have never seen.

WyoRockMan

climber

Grizzlyville, WY

Jul 20, 2017 - 07:48pm PT

Marty,

My uncle had this piton hammer that he bought from REI in 1967. It weighs 19.1 oz. It was made by Salewa.
Not rare (I wouldn't guess) but your pic above reminded me that I had it.

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Jul 20, 2017 - 08:03pm PT

Donini! Re your input!

Yes, an ice srew...I actually used srews nearly identical to that in the late 60's.

Please claify, was that the 1960's, or the 1860's?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 20, 2017 - 10:10pm PT

Steve - Did AustriAlpin make gear in the 1950s?

WyoRockMan - I have Salewa hammers like that but I always associate Salewa with West Germany not Austria, where REI says they are from Austria. Nice artifact! Maybe a distributor in Austria was importing Salewa hammers and sending them to REI? My hammer has no markings on the head or handle.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 21, 2017 - 01:20am PT

On a second generation of Charlet-Moser Super Mont-Blanc ice axe, the hole in the adze was modified in a shape of a keyhole that allowed the Charlet-Moser ice-screws to be driven with the axe.
Regarding the ice-screw on the bottom of Marty's photo, Dahu thinks that it is a Simond Conique à Frapper (1974).

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 21, 2017 - 06:45am PT

When you think of the development of climbing gear since climbing became a sport in the mid 19th Century a couple of things come to mind.
For roughly the first 100 years climbing was dominated by British aristocrats and the local Swiss and French guide class that arose to service them. This led to very little development of either equipment or technique because of the hidebound, traditional mindset. Consider that steps were still being cut on ice climbs in the mid 1950's and front points on crampons were so late in coming.
I believe that when Don Whillans and Joe Brown appeared on the scene and opened up Brutish climbing to the working classes the mindset began to change.
But the real changes were brought about by brash Americans who came from a culture where tradition had little force and new ideas were paramount.
Chouinard revolutionized ice climbing both in the development of new techniques and equipment. Likewise, Yosemite did the same for rockclimbing. The concept of free climbing without grabbing the occasional piece (French free), big wall techniques, and innovative gear like cams all had their genesis in the Valley.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 21, 2017 - 07:13am PT

I started purchasing my climbing gear in 1985 and many items came from the REI store. Harness leg loops and swami belts were separate. Friends and Metolius cam units had no webbing on them, No sewn slings or daisy chains. I was constantly having REI cut webbing for me and I became really good with tying water knots. A year or so later the Hiking Shack had Chouinard harnesses available that had the padded swami and leg loops all in one unit. It is amazing how much climbing gear has progressed in just the last 50 years.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 21, 2017 - 07:19am PT

Marty

Do you have any idea where this mystery harness is from? It looks like it's very pre Swami and Troll Whillans.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 21, 2017 - 09:05pm PT

Marlow - Did you win that ebay auction? I bid on it but lost it. I was most interested in that curved nut that was in the lot. My impression of the harness is that it is some kind of Army surplus item. Brass ends on the harness tails. I am not sure who makes the harness but it looks like 1960s/early 1970s. Also who makes the piton that is hiding under the Clog piton. It has a oval eye but the front tip is flat. Is it just a sawed off Simond? I did however win the second ebay lot from the same seller that is filled with bizarre nuts possibly homemade.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 21, 2017 - 11:26pm PT

Hi Marty.

Congrats with the auction you won. It was a fantastic collection of old equipment. I did not participate in that one.

I won the auction you have the photo from. I wonder when the army started making climbing harnesses. Do you know if they made their own harnesses before Swami, Troll Whillans etc?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 22, 2017 - 01:03am PT

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 22, 2017 - 07:38am PT

Marlow - so on ebay you are buyer y***r. I purposely bid low on the first auction that you won to throw off the bidders on the second auction. I am curious to see what that other hidden piton is. The harness I am guessing is some kind of Army thing since it has the brass ends on the harness tails. I am not sure if it is Army or who made it. It may be created for construction inspection purposes as well. Maybe a fireman used it with your mystery carabiner to clip into the truck ladder rig. Very nice item for sure! Maybe Steve has seen one of these. I will share pics of the second auction when I receive the items. I think most of the nuts in it are homemade but are very unique to the year they were created.

Nutstory - Very cleaver thinking on Charlet Mosers part with the ice screw slot. But could you not do the same thing by just putting the pick end into the ice screw loop to turn the ice screw? Or would that possibly damage the pick?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 22, 2017 - 07:50am PT

Or would that possibly damage the pick?

Yes, you are right, it was the best way to break the pick.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 22, 2017 - 08:00am PT

Nutstory - Thanks! I am experienced in collecting ice tools, not very experienced in climbing ice. When I moved from Michigan to Arizona, by that time I had enough of the snow. I for sure am a dry desert rat!

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 22, 2017 - 08:34am PT

Marty.

I will send you photos of the curved nut on this thread. I think there was one or more identically curved nuts in the collection you bought.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 31, 2017 - 11:08am PT

Salewa. What's the name of the model?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 31, 2017 - 10:40pm PT

Marlow - Out of the hundreds of different sliders I have in the museum, I don't have any of those Salewa devices. I just received my box of homemade nuts from eBay. I will post a picture soon. I saw the old pitons and Simond pitons selling on eBay but had no money to bid. Looks like you won a few of the lots. I am amazed that the two Simond pitons sold for over $250.00

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Aug 1, 2017 - 01:32am PT

Patent EP 47232B1

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Aug 1, 2017 - 09:15am PT

Nutstory

Great to see all three sizes and the prototype. TFPU!

Marty

Escalation of commitment is one possible outcome during an auction.

I think we in the photos you see above find one size 1 and two size 3. If so, I can send you one size 3. One out of three ain't bad - as a start.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Aug 2, 2017 - 08:10am PT

Here's a photo of the two old British nuts including the curved one

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 2, 2017 - 09:12am PT

Marlow - I will for sure take you up on your offer for that #3 Salewa slider. I have been dreaming of having one of the them in my museum since Stephane showed me what they looked like back in the late 1990s. So very cool! So very very cool!!!

Nice curved homemade nut! On the set I have from that same auction I was surprised that only one side of the nut was angled where the nut could have been placed in two directions. I should have time to post pictures tomorrow.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 3, 2017 - 07:39am PT

Marlow - Here is the other part of that British auction of nuts. Beautiful set for sure. Along with the homemade nuts is a few first edition Clog Hexagons (no oval stamp), Troll Spuds where one of the cord holes is drilled in the wrong direction, Clog single hole wedge, very early I believe Hiatt steel oval karabiner, and a 1980 Chouinard/Camp wired Stopper. Besides the 1980 Stopper all of the other nuts look like late 1960s vintage.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 3, 2017 - 07:47am PT

On a different British auction I won these homemade pitons vintage around late 1960s. Nice fun set that came with a early Hiatt steel karabiner.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Aug 3, 2017 - 08:47am PT

Troll Spuds where one of the cord holes is drilled in the wrong direction

The Troll Wedge is not drilled in the wrong direction. In fact the rope is threaded in a wrong way.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Aug 3, 2017 - 09:15am PT

Marty.

That's an awesome set of early British nuts.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Aug 3, 2017 - 04:17pm PT

More on this fascinating bit of early nut history here thanks to Maestro Pennequin.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1385689/The-First-Purpose-Designed-Nut

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 3, 2017 - 07:19pm PT

Steve - Thats a total coincidence that I unexpectedly received a Troll one hole wedge at the same time that you and Stephane were talking about the nut on another thread. I knew the British eBay nuts lot was a treasure, but now it reveals a even greater treasure. Very cool!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 3, 2017 - 09:14pm PT

These are a few gems I scored from the recent Bourgeois eBay auction from France. I am not sure what year the crude pitons were created. I don't think the maker of the ice piton is the same as the crude pitons. The Charlet Moser pitons are much heavier than the ones I have already in the museum.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 3, 2017 - 09:29pm PT

These were the climbing items that were up for bid in the Bourgeois eBay auction from France. There were two sets of climbing items being auctioned throughout a two week period. I was tempted to bid on a few items in the second auction set but shipping to the USA was very steep.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Aug 3, 2017 - 10:04pm PT

Oh, I really like that game-of-thrones looking middle pin with the curious attachment back up there in the first pic - clever.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 19, 2017 - 12:25pm PT

Does anybody know what manufacturer created the Piton Carrier, and what year it was first created?

Lorenzo

Trad climber

Portland Oregon

Aug 19, 2017 - 03:58pm PT

http://verticalarchaeology.com/2015/03/16/piton-carrier-oval/

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 19, 2017 - 08:30pm PT

Lorenzo - Thanks!

From Vertical Archaeology - " The sticker on the spine reads “made in western Germany”. Stéphane Pennequin informs me that it was designed by H. Strathmann in 1961, and predates the heart shaped version in our archives."

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Aug 23, 2017 - 08:20am PT

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=527817&msg=2516495#msg2516495

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Aug 25, 2017 - 11:13am PT

Grivel Dhaulagiri hammer

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 26, 2017 - 04:17pm PT

Awesome nutstory! Thanks for the info!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 26, 2017 - 04:23pm PT

Marlow - Thanks for your amazing donation to the Karabin Climbing Museum. I have dreamed for many years of being able to find one of these Salewa sliders! A truly wonderful piece of climbing craftsmanship!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 26, 2017 - 04:36pm PT

The buyer states that these pitons are definitely from 1880-1890 era which I can believe. But I keep looking at them in wonder as of why the piton end is so heavily hammered and the blade shows little scaring. My thoughts are that the pitons were created for the logging industry so the blades were being pounded over and over into green timber and not hard stone. I have a few modern logging pitons that look the same as these ancient relics, which were used to tie logs together into rafts where workers could stand more firmly on as they worked with stray logs being floated down rivers. Also used to assist in tying loads on carts or trucks or other uses with timber. I am sure some of these logging pitons made it into the mountains to serve as main anchor points on the big mountain routes, but I believe they were originally created for the logging industry.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 11, 2017 - 06:05am PT

Old mystery karabiner...???
Edit: after further research, I am wondering if this mysterious karabiner would not be the first generation designed by Sebastian Mariner in 1950...?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Sep 12, 2017 - 06:59am PT

nutstory - This is a page from the 1955 Sporthaus Schuster catalog....compliments Marlow. It shows two different karabiners. The bigger karabiner 3915 says it weighs 120 grams. Could this be your mystery karabiner?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 12, 2017 - 08:15am PT

Here are two better photographs of these karabiners (the previous photograph was taken with a mobile).
The karabiner on the left weighs 103g, the one on the right weighs 126g.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Sep 12, 2017 - 09:03am PT

Hmmmm... All of my MARWA, Stubai and ASMU carabiners of that shape are made of steel. I have not seen that aluminum version before. I thought the karabiner shown in that catalog was aluminum, but yours is a little less weight than the one listed. The mystery continues........

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 12, 2017 - 11:19am PT

I have never before seen anything like Nutstory's aluminium biner.

Forrest Titon T3: What's the story of this model? I seldom see this Titon logo.

Don Lauria

Trad climber

Bishop, CA

Sep 12, 2017 - 11:30am PT

Donini:

Chouinard revolutionized ice climbing both in the development of new techniques and equipment. Likewise, Yosemite did the same for rockclimbing. The concept of free climbing without grabbing the occasional piece (French free), big wall techniques, and innovative gear like cams all had their genesis in the Valley.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 13, 2017 - 12:25am PT

Marlow:

Forrest Titon T3: What's the story of this model? I seldom see this Titon logo.

Most, if not all Forrest items, have such a logo: a stylized FM (that stands for Forrest Mountaineering) inserted within a little tree.
A few months ago, I acquired two very old Titons with a logo without this little tree. I suspect that these two chocks might well be rather rare, as they may predate the anodized version.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 13, 2017 - 08:17am PT

Nutstory.

For sure, the two Titons look old.

I know the FM tree. It is seen on most Forrest Titons. What is special about the one I posted is the frame/rectangle around the tree. I guess I have seen 150 Forrest Titons, but this rectangle only once. I would be surprised if it isn't found more often than I see it.

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

Sep 13, 2017 - 08:58am PT

All very true with maybe the exception of "The concept of free climbing without grabbing the occasional piece ...". I believe that concept was born at Tahquitz with Royal and a few of the Sierra Club RCS climbers (circa 1952) before they migrated to the Valley for the long haul.

Wasn't also the concept of "free climbing" known at least in the Dresden area in the early 1900's? And in the Dolomites? England?

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Sep 13, 2017 - 09:21am PT

The persistent Cali legend concerning Royal and Tahquitz. One, that the Open Book was the first 5.9 and two that the first true free climbs were done there. Hardly likely on both counts...it's a big world out there and, in regards to climbing, the States appeared fairly late on the scene.

Don Lauria

Trad climber

Bishop, CA

Sep 13, 2017 - 09:29am PT

Jim,
I have no doubt that the Cali myths may be just that, but my comments refer to concepts not accomplishments.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 13, 2017 - 09:32am PT

What is special about the one I posted is the frame/rectangle around the tree.

The Forrest Titons size 1 to 5 were made of steel, that is the reason for which the logo is cast and not stamped, as for the aluminum samples (sizes 6 to 10, and later 6 to 17)

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 13, 2017 - 10:40am PT

Ah, simple as that... and then there must be relatively few 1-5 around, but more of the larger sizes...

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Sep 13, 2017 - 09:02pm PT

Marlow - There are 4 different sets of Forrest Titons to look for, but maybe Stephane pointed out that there may be a earlier set as well making five different sets.

Set one: The Forrest manufacture stamp is just "fm" and no tree outline. c.1973. Stephane shows he has #9 and 10, and further looking at my Titons I also have this in size #9 and 10. So it will be interesting if anybody else has any other sizes with just the "fm" logo.

Set two: Colored #1-10. c.1974. Sizes #1-5 are Stainless Steel and 6-10 are aluminum. #10 was uncolored. In my photo there are two #7s shown where my #6 gold color is presently in another display. For some reason I have two different colored #7 Titons which #7 is listed in the Forrest catalog as green. I also have brown.

Set three: Uncolored #1-17. c.1977. #1-5 are made of cadmium plated steel. #6-8 are the same shape as set two but are uncolored. #9-17 all have many holes drilled into them to make them lighter. #9 and 10 are different than the #9 and 10 of the earlier Set two colored.

Set four: Uncolored. Change to #9-17. These Titons look the same as set three but the bottom of the "T" side the chock was grinded down on a angle so now the Titon can be placed as a chock in the long position as well.

Set five: Uncolored. Change to size #9-17. These Titons look the same as set three and set four, but they are created with the long position angle already manufactured in. From the side you can see the longways angle, but when looking from the top the long edge is nicely machined the whole distance, not grinded down. The aluminum looks speckely and the tree logo stamp is smaller.

Forrest also created Chimney chocks which look like Titons but only have two holes for the sling. Not sure what advantage Chimney Chocks have over the Titons of the same size.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Sep 14, 2017 - 07:43am PT

Hi Marty.

That's a description even Marlow can understand. :o)

Thanks!

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 14, 2017 - 09:29am PT

The Forrest Chimney Chocks do not have any advantage over the Titons of the same size.
They only predate the Titon #11 to #17 that hit the market quickly after the Chimney Chocks.
Chimney Chocks, 1976, Titons #11 to #17, 1977.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Sep 14, 2017 - 08:36pm PT

Stephane - Thanks for clarification on the Chimney Chocks being made before the longer Titons were made.

………………………………………………………………………………..

I noticed a mistake with the Titons listing so I reedited the listing. Forrest didn’t have a uncolored set #1-10 in 1974. Of course the Titons were finished and uncolored before he anodized them, so some of them with the tree logo may have gone out to climbers for testing etc still being uncolored. I have a #10 with “fm” logo and a #10 with a tree logo which makes sense since the #10 was never colored.

The key Titon to find is a “#9 uncolored with a tree logo” of the set two style, “having the single one hole sling slot design.” In 1977 the Titons #9 and 10 design was changed to having lightening holes but the #6-8 sizes remained the same as the 1974 colored set, just they were no longer colored. #9 in the 1974 colored set was always colored and #10 was uncolored. So #9 uncolored with single sling slot and tree logo is a prize Titon to have.

Also note the 1974 Titons #1-5 were made of Stainless Steel, and the 1977 Titons #1-5 are made of Cadmium plated steel.

It will be cool if other sizes of the 1973 Titons (possible prototypes) that have the “fm” logo surface. So far there is proof of the #9 and #10 sizes both uncolored.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Sep 14, 2017 - 11:08pm PT

Used four #4 Titons to hang the Greenpeace banner on Sears Tower - worked like a charm...

ClimbingOn

Trad climber

Sep 15, 2017 - 03:06pm PT

I believe these stoppers and hook to be of European origin. No identifying markings can be found. Thoughts?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Sep 15, 2017 - 11:48pm PT

John Brailsford MOAC Original Chock, England ;-)
The hook is probabliy a Clog.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Sep 16, 2017 - 10:45am PT

Healyje - I didn't know that you were a Green Peace protestor.......very cool. And you were the banner hanging guy....very very cool!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Sep 17, 2017 - 10:12am PT

I dug around In my gear doubles box and was totally surprised to find a Forrest Titon #9 uncolored with a tree logo. This Titon does not show up in any of the Forrest catalog listings. This shows that Forrest let out a few samples of his 1974 colored set being uncolored.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Sep 20, 2017 - 05:19pm PT

Healyje - I didn't know that you were a Green Peace protestor.......very cool. And you were the banner hanging guy....very very cool!

Thanks. Yeah, the Sears and Tokyo Towers of mine and my partner Doug Allen's Eiffel Tower climb pretty much kicked-off the environmental banner hanging thing.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 3, 2017 - 08:37am PT

Wild Country climbing shoes

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-climbing-shoes-wild-country-tag-26-27cm-free-p-p/302474632572?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Boreal Fire for comparison

And then a female model looking closer to the WC shoes

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 3, 2017 - 08:52am PT

Wild Country was the importer / distibutor for Boreal in UK, So I suspect that these cimbing boots are Fire.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 3, 2017 - 08:54am PT

It looks like Fire, yes, but the black mark says Wild Country, maybe the same or a similar shoe produced by Boreal for Wild Country.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Oct 3, 2017 - 09:30am PT

I cant remember a pair of fires that ever had that black 'pipping' lining/re-enforceing the lace opening.

but i knew many folks who would customize, re-use tags .

nice art work, lol !

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Oct 3, 2017 - 09:39am PT

It looks like Fire, yes, but the black mark says Wild Country, maybe the same or a similar shoe produced by Boreal for Wild Country.

When Simond was the importer for Wild Country in France, the Friends were stamped SIMOND.

climber

Boulder, CO

Nov 3, 2017 - 05:41pm PT

As a sidebar to these many varied designs, I'd love to read about anyone who actually used, and was successfully caught by, some of the most bizarre, obtuse, curious, and peculiar pieces of protection. Way too many ex: the rubber treaded Trangos and inscrutable polygonal rotating, sliding wedge affairs look so frightening, unstable, and impractical as to be useful only as collectibles. Carabiners were originally used by firemen way before climbers discovered them, so large odd ones are not unique, just not what we are used to seeing.
MOAC was one of my first, and favorite nuts, and carried it on 1" sling big enough to go around my neck, a method that seems blatantly deadly now. I carried the one-hole Troll nuts two or three to a single over-the-shoulder runner for years, and rappelled off one that we had to bash into a shallow groove, spit on, and hope it froze in before committing to it. Always wondered if I'd find it at the base in the summer. Titons 4 and 5 also could be carried that way, after I stopped using them on the rack; the narrow head could slot into the back of right angled cracks where otherwise much smaller insecure nuts had to be used.
I also had a habit of falling on the first placement of each new item; #2 Friend, 50 footer, no problem; #1 RP, 8 footer, just fine; 6 footer onto a blind Rock N'Roller placement, also caught me; small TCU on Crankenstein at Vedauwoo, popped right out into my face with George Hurley's 1/4" bolt keeping me off the ground. Never fell on it, but placed a Dolt spoon piton several times, nearly impossible to remove due to the reverse flair shape, but it still looks pristine, a little CroMo jewel. Dave Rearick osage orange nut pulled out of Umph Slot is another display-only item. An early mentor had one of those coathanger ice screws catch his team on a slope in the Alps, after one or two more modern tubular screws failed. Whew.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 3, 2017 - 05:52pm PT

Hey AE,
I just sent you an email throught the Supertopo mail.Please let me know if it came through to you.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Dec 15, 2017 - 07:33pm PT

Steve - I tried contacting many people through ST email and never got a response. The email system has been down for many months. Merry Holidays!

This lot of Forrest Titons was recently listed on ebay. The #6 Titon has the FM stamp with no tree outline.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Dec 20, 2017 - 09:39am PT

Cool old Leeper nut tool...

No mystery...

Scrubber

climber

Straight outta Squampton

Dec 20, 2017 - 11:09am PT

Back to those Boreal Fires. The photos are comparing very different ages of shoes. The Wild Country tag was a common way to bring something into your product line when you were the exclusive distributor within a country or region.

The Boreal logo is still clearly visible on the ankle bone circular patch. These are some of the older ones with the brass lace eyelets. The second photo shows Fires from near the end of their reign, probably in the early 1990's. From that point, I believe they morphed into the Ballet.

K

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Dec 21, 2017 - 01:49am PT

Marlow - You are showing a Leeper Jiggle-O nut tool but I have not seen that Jiggle-O style before. If you ever find another, I know of this museum in Arizona that is looking for one. Wow it is beautiful! The regular Jiggle-O nut tool has 7 holes but yours has 8 and the hook is completely different.

The generations are identified by the end of the nut tool. First generation has three cuts on the end. So the nut tool you show Marlow may be the first batch of Jiggle-Os made. Second generation has two cuts on the end and tiny hole added at hook, third generation has one cut (flat) on the end.

Looks like a mystery to me!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Dec 27, 2017 - 09:06am PT

Does anybody know who produced these nuts? Are they early Wild Country Stones?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 27, 2017 - 07:36pm PT

Yes on Wild Country. They might have been called Microrocks if I recall correctly.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Dec 27, 2017 - 09:12pm PT

Steve - awesome, Thanks!

Next question: Are these Wild Country Stones? Hmmmmmm.....

WyoRockMan

climber

Grizzlyville, WY

Dec 27, 2017 - 09:39pm PT

WC Microrocks? (0-2)

WC Stones (1 & 4)

These have less rounded edges than yours Marty, different groove in the casting as well.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Dec 28, 2017 - 12:08am PT

WILD COUNTRY Micro Rocks (1983) #0 to #6
WILD COUNTRY Stones (1991) #0 to #6

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Dec 28, 2017 - 06:42pm PT

So on my display it looks like I have WC pretending to be HB.......I can fix that!

WyoRockMan - Your Stones are really cool! The ones I have don't have the stars on them and are completely unmarked. I wonder if the Stones you have are first generation, or the ones I have predate yours? Also yours have a channel on the front face and mine have a scoop..........Hmmmmmmm

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Dec 29, 2017 - 12:34am PT

Marty, Hughie Banner made the Micro Rocks for Wild Country before he set up his own business, HB Climbing Equipment.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Jan 2, 2018 - 09:10pm PT

Scrubber

climber

Straight outta Squampton

Jan 3, 2018 - 08:11am PT

Just keep driving it deeper as the rock erodes away.

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Jan 4, 2018 - 12:35pm PT

Or pull it and sell to me... : )

ClimbingOn

Trad climber

Jan 5, 2018 - 03:42pm PT

These Coca Cola logo pins showed up on eBay. Were these officially sanctioned? I've never seen them before and am curious as to if there is a story behind them.

Link to auction: https://tinyurl.com/colapitons

If someone here buys them, I'd like to purchase just one from you.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jan 5, 2018 - 03:54pm PT

I have not found any connection between Chouinard and Coke in any advertisement way, but this is the third time these same pitons have been posted on ebay.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Jan 5, 2018 - 08:39pm PT

they're done now, and it certainly coulna be some tape eh boys?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jan 6, 2018 - 12:15am PT

Yesterday I received this cool old well used tool. I have seen it before on ST, but had not recognized that there's three firm names on it: Lowe - Camp Interalp - Salewa

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jan 6, 2018 - 12:48am PT

Marlow, the name of your nut tool is Chock Tocker.
And this Lowe one predates it a little:

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jan 7, 2018 - 08:44am PT

Marlow - I looked through a pile of Wild Country catalogs and in many of the years Wild Country sold other manufacturers shoes. I see no listing for a Wild Country brand shoe. The shoe in question is definitely a Boreal, that at some time Wild Country was distributing this Boreal shoe under the Wild Country name. I still have more Wild Country research to do for the Mixed Nuts display and maybe the answer will appear in the price lists.

nutstory - What company do you credit for the first created nut tool?

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jan 13, 2018 - 05:54am PT

Here, once again, I would like to express all my gratitude to Marlow for discovering, buying, and generously giving these amazing home-made spring-loaded camming devices as a present to the Nuts Museum. At present we know very little about these devices. The seller (Hansjörg Struwe) climbed mainly in Western Germany (Pfalz). The designer of the cams Jacques (?) died a few years ago. He was from Viernheim. The region Pfalz is comparable to Eastern Germany called Elbsandstein. They climbed there a lot. Hansjörg Struwe told that the cams are similar to "Friends" which were very popular. His friend, Jacques (?), made the tooling and the calculation of tensile strength and so on. They are approximately 20 years old.
From the historical point of view, it is interesting to notice that Ray Jardine, Kris Walker (Forrest Mountaineering) and Ron Kirk (CMI) worked on a similar passive protection: a double inverted cam. Wild Country even advertized a passive cam nut in 1983, but they did never market it, the Cosmic Cam. These home-made devices are a spring-loaded version of these chocks.

Ballo

Trad climber

Jan 13, 2018 - 02:17pm PT

Nutstory, those look cool and terrifying at the same time

Ballo

Trad climber

Jan 13, 2018 - 02:20pm PT

Your images don't show, but I have a CLOG "nut" shaped like a star and perhaps meant to be used like a small hex. I tried placing that thing over a dozen times before taking it off my rack in frustration. What a POS!

CLOG ascenders were almost as crappy. Not sure if they ever made anything safe or decent (apologies if Mr Clog is reading this).

There were a lot of experimental gear in the 70s which didn't appear to see much time in the lab. Various sliding nuts which were probably trying to replicate the knifeblade-aluminum head combo, steel nuts, and the worst piece of pro I ever tried to place on lead: the SMC camlock. I don't know if anyone ever trusted those things and lived.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Jan 13, 2018 - 03:27pm PT

just picked up a pika nutbuster like the one pictured. also grabbed a titanium nut tool from same guy.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jan 13, 2018 - 04:10pm PT

Those weighted nut tools were designed to allow climbers to lightly test once-plentiful fixed pitons as well as to remove stubborn nuts.
The two camming nut designs shown up thread strike me as being dependent on sitting the point at the bottom of the shape on something in order to have any real holding power much like a Tricam. Otherwise the curvature seems wrong for placement in a parallel-sided crack.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jan 14, 2018 - 02:17am PT

Ballo, your Clog "nut" shaped like a star is probably a Clog Cog.
"Mr Clog", Denny Moorhouse managed International Safety Components. "Mrs Clog", the lovely Shirley Smith sadly passed away in 1998.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 5, 2018 - 01:29pm PT

I received an old mystery ice axe today. It's a Fritsch from the 1930s/40s marked Dick Ullman. If it is what I think it is, it's a cool old item.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 6, 2018 - 07:42am PT

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Mar 6, 2018 - 08:57am PT

^Marty - what's the mystery?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 6, 2018 - 09:50pm PT

The #10 Forrest Titons were manufactured with two slots.

1973 #6-10 Titons "FM" stamp (no tree) uncolored - #10 2 slots (First Generation)

1974 #6-10 Titons "FM Tree" stamp, colored - (#10 uncolored with 2 slots)

1977 #10 changes to new design.

Forrest catalogs show #10 Titons with two slots.

So sometime 1974-1976 some of the #10 Titons were created with one slot.
Presently on ebay another single slot #10 just surfaced.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 7, 2018 - 12:44pm PT

Four Bonaiti steel carabiners. First one side, then the other. The upper two carabiners are not carrying any firm name. The lower two are carrying Bonaiti (Cassin), which possibly make the two first Bonaiti only carabiners. The upper three are of the same dimensions.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 7, 2018 - 05:46pm PT

Marlow - For being made of steel those carabiners are in great condition!

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 10, 2018 - 11:24am PT

Marty.

Yes, the carabiners are well kept, and the big ones are very heavy.

Here's a mystery: Two belay devices without a name or logo on them.

Who made these?

The heart shaped one with three holes is possibly made by Hermione Cooper, Wild Country Raptor: http://www.smhc.co.uk/objects_item.asp?item_id=33032

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 10, 2018 - 02:55pm PT

Marlow - Hmmm maybe this is a question for rope device master Dr. Gary Storrick. I have not seen the belay device on the right before and it looks really cool. First thing that comes to mind is maybe Pierre Allain? The left device looks like a WC Raptor.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 11, 2018 - 12:39am PT

Also I thought of Pierre Allain, but looking at the PA belay devices Nutstory has posted prevously, I didn't find this one. Could still be PA, but maybe a Wild Country experiment?

Some pipe ice pitons, the ones to the right are Swiss as seen from the REI catalog Marty posted previously (see photos below). Who made the two on the left side?

Scrubber

climber

Straight outta Squampton

Mar 11, 2018 - 07:42am PT

I've seen boxes of those slotted tube and ring "ice pitons" at a military surplus shop in the US. They were signed "ice tent pegs" :)

K

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 11, 2018 - 07:44am PT

Then: Either it is a pipe ice piton with holes like the one in the REI catalog or it is a military tent plug... Or both ^^^^

hooblie

climber

from out where the anecdotes roam

Mar 11, 2018 - 08:09am PT

quiz:

application:

see port a wrap

http://youtu.be/Q5R7q_wCcoc

first item on left, not the same function ... but had me lookin'!

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 11, 2018 - 08:14am PT

Holy moly...

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 11, 2018 - 01:52pm PT

I would think those would be illegal in Europe!

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 12, 2018 - 12:55am PT

Marlow, the descender on the right side is a Wild Country Manta. I will confirm you the date this evening while at home. Do you have it???
Edit: 1994!

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 12, 2018 - 08:28am PT

Nutstory. I found it on the web this weekend. I'll soon have it.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 12, 2018 - 08:31am PT

Would you be willing to part with it...?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 12, 2018 - 03:49pm PT

Marlow - Those ice tube pitons are amazing!!! I have looked at that 1958 REI catalog page over 100 times now wondering if I will ever see a actual photo of what those tubes look like. So very amazing thanks for sharing!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 12, 2018 - 04:20pm PT

Yes I paid the big price for the recent 1960s Holubar lot. It adds a few more off sizes to the Holubar pitons I already have, and there are 4 interesting pins within the lot which are shown in the center of the photo.

I was confused on who made the Lost Arrow shown on the top since the eye is unusually large. And for sure it turns out to be a gem. The blade is stamped "Ambercrombie and Fitch Co made in New York," and the eye is stamped Hupfauf Einsiedeln, made in Switzerland. Cool piton in great condition. circa guess late 1960s.

The flat pointed vertical piton is a early 1950s Werk Fulpmes and Ralling, very heavy, thick, only stamped "Austria."

The bottom two pitons are both stamped Holubar and are so nice! I have not seen this shape Holubar before where the blade of the piton stays wide and flat all the way to the hammer end. circa later 1950s (?).

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Mar 12, 2018 - 11:06pm PT

That Abercrombie and Fitch piton cracks me up. It looks like a fake Lost Arrow that a trustafarian poseur might buy on Fifth Avenue for a one-day trip to go look at the Gunks.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 13, 2018 - 12:09pm PT

A Vaude Friend remover

Cam extractors as posted previously by Nutstory:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1955042&msg=2229466#msg2229466

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 14, 2018 - 01:24am PT

Awesome find Marlow; bravo, you are really a Master discoverer of treasures!

Scrubber

climber

Straight outta Squampton

Mar 14, 2018 - 05:15pm PT

I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of this thread, so I thought I'd add a few of my own. Nothing particularly rare here, but interesting enough to keep around.
Salewa hollow oval marked R ROBBINS on the back side

A5 Grade VI oval, familiar shape. Chouinard or SMC?

EIGER USA I know nothing about this company. Nothing on the other side.

Big honkin' Stubai D with UIAA logo near the nose

Ordinary old ring-angle. Only special to me because it was the second-last piton remaining on Serenity Crack about 22 years ago, and I pulled it out by hand while giving my quickdraw a little confirmation yank before climbing past. Just about fell from losing my balance when it popped out!

Galvanized soft iron "hanger"? Not sure of the correct title of these, but I've seen them occasionally on older routes. (There are three on Tantalus Wall in Squamish) The squared end is interference press-fit when driven into a 1/4" hole. Not very confidence inspiring...

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Mar 14, 2018 - 05:20pm PT

Tom. that abbi fitch stuff was actually the real deal BINTD. outfitted Everest etc back when Evereast was a big deal. talked to a 10th Mtn vetran and early climbing legend in these parts who bought his hob nailed boots from Abe fitch for post ww11 rock climbing.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 24, 2018 - 02:43pm PT

Hey, they could work!

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 24, 2018 - 11:17pm PT

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 25, 2018 - 09:09am PT

Recently I received some pitons carrying the sign G. The pitons arrived with som Fritsch pitons. Do you know who made these pitons? Could the G be a Grivel sign?

The first type of ring piton

The second

Third

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 25, 2018 - 12:00pm PT

Kirk's Kamms sucked so bad we called them the "Swivel O' Death"

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 25, 2018 - 12:40pm PT

Marlow- If you bought your gear from the US that "G" might mean Gerry. I recently picked up an early steel biner that had the distinctive triangular configuration that later became the first mass produced Gerry carabiner and it carried a "G" stamp on the spine. The seller was from Colorado.
Those pitons seem handmade enough that it may simply be the smith's stamp rather than anything commercial in nature.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 25, 2018 - 12:47pm PT

Hi Steve.

I bought them from USA, so then it is Gerry. Thanks!
Do you have them in your collection?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 25, 2018 - 02:57pm PT

The stamp on my carabiner looks to be a reasonable match so you are likely to have bought very early Gerry. Holubar imported and stamped Stubai so Gerry might have imported Fritsch as their own option. Lots of work to do lining up the import sources.
I have lots of Holubar hardware but not so much early Gerry to compare with what you just got. I haven't had time to fully inventory my collection but I would be happy to coordinate with you as a serious and sharing collector.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 25, 2018 - 06:58pm PT

Besides the common 3 early Gerry pitons in the Gerry catalogs, I have one Ice piton stamped with the same "G." I am guessing that it is a Gerry item.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 25, 2018 - 07:10pm PT

I would put those Gerry pitons in the early to mid 1950s and made by some local blacksmith.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 26, 2018 - 09:44am PT

Steve and Marty.

I can post Gerry pitons to one of you and then you can share. Who will receive the package?

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Mar 26, 2018 - 01:11pm PT

I recall having some pitons stamped with "G"...I'll have to look around for them. Thanks for the Beta G-ents!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 26, 2018 - 05:39pm PT

Marlow-Email me at scgrossman(at )msn (dot) com
How many do you have?
Cheers!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 26, 2018 - 06:07pm PT

Marlow - You are donating the pitons........Awesome!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 26, 2018 - 08:03pm PT

from Ashby, Vertical Archaeology

I saw something on the old mystery pro thread on ST. And thought I could ad a bit to the Gerry piton info.
Here are two pictures of a "1947 piton supplement" stating the pitons were a first attempt at an American made piton. They were made locally, I would guess one of the foundries in Denver.
There was one foundry in Colorado Springs that made some small batches of pitons in the 1950s but I think that was a very small custom ordered batch for the Colorado College mountaineering club.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 26, 2018 - 08:16pm PT

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Mar 26, 2018 - 08:59pm PT

Tradman, thanks for the info on the A&F piton. I guess the company was different back then, compared to what it is today.

Eiger "Death Oval" carabiners were sold c. 1975, and had a reputation for being dangerous. I think some had the steel pins fall out, or something like that. I had some on the rack, but tried to only use them for racking pins, stoppers, etc. They fell out of favor rather quickly.

Liberty sold a very similar plain vanilla oval carabiner at about the same time, which didn't have the same bad reputation. And, so did SMC, which were a bit more expensive than the Liberty brand, as I recall.

Of course, the Chouinard ovals were the best available back then, but were the most expensive (except for carabiners that were imported from Europe).

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 26, 2018 - 10:45pm PT

Marty- Your carabiner is the same as the one I recently got from Paula. I think the "G" stamp is a decent match for the one on the pitons. Those flat ring pitons are the same as the ones shown by Marlow.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 27, 2018 - 10:13am PT

Here is all the Gerry pitons except one. They all carry a G sign except the upper two right which carry no sign.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 27, 2018 - 10:26am PT

And here's the mystery. The piton below has the same blueish surface as the G pitons and arrived with them, but there is no G on it. I think the letters seen are M and F or E. Possibly a piton made for Gerry by a blacksmith using his own initials/letters before Gerry started using the G?

Do you know what MF or ME stands for?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 27, 2018 - 11:13am PT

No idea what or who either of those options would be.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 27, 2018 - 11:48am PT

Marlow- I did give you my email up above but here it is again
I can't believe I missed this auction. How long ago was it?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 27, 2018 - 11:54am PT

I hope that you are keeping at least one of each style as they are some of the earliest commercial pitons made in the US and rare as such.
That the ring angles are press formed and not cut from angle stock is noteworthy.
Gerry Cunningham did his best to make good pitons but his expertise wasn't in metalwork. Once Gregg Blomberg started working with him that changed. Gregg went on to start CMI who made some fine pitons.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 27, 2018 - 11:57am PT

I am trying my best to stay within limits and keeping them could easily make it tempting to broaden my collection. I am sure you and Marty will give them a good home... ^^^^

The auction was five weeks ago.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 27, 2018 - 12:00pm PT

Is there anything that you would like to have in your collection that I might have to offer like a first run Chouinard carabiner? Let me know what might be on your wish list when you email me.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 27, 2018 - 05:24pm PT

Steve - A few months ago I sent Marlow a mint Alcoa (no Chouinard). Do you have any extra Chouinard carabiners that are colored?

Marlow - Great picture of the Gerry pitons! I have the 1960 set of 3 Gerry pitons, besides the early ice piton and carabiner, and piton holder and webbing stuff. So I don't have any of the pitons you show, and whatever you want to share is totally welcome with me!!!!

Its interesting that on the flat pitons the ring has been intentionally bent. I wonder if it is to allow more clearance space between the ring and piton since a smaller ring is used.

The unmarked pitons in the upper right corner I have seen early Army pitons like these, but usually they are stamped "US Ames" or other.

The Mystery piton looks like one of those French 1890s logging pitons. Looks like one of those pitons thats so tough you can beat the crap out of it, and it still begs for more!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 27, 2018 - 09:32pm PT

Marty- Please post what you have that is early Gerry with a "G" stamp besides the ice piton.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 28, 2018 - 07:47am PT

Marty

The MF/ME piton is about the same size as the Gerry piton in the middle of the photo above. And the surface of the MF/ME piton is blueish like the surface of the Gerry pitons. I am quite sure it is a pre-Gerry Gerry piton. It doesn't look like any early French, Swiss, Austrian or German pitons I have seen.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 28, 2018 - 06:02pm PT

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 28, 2018 - 10:10pm PT

Those are early 1960s.
Thanks for posting them.
The "G" on that horizontal pretty much conforms it that Gerry used that stamp all along.

hammerhead

Mountain climber

Eastsound,Wa.

Mar 29, 2018 - 09:08am PT

This is a great thread! The level of both design and manufacturing ingenuity is impressive.

One thing I haven't seen so far are plastic nuts.
My high school climbing partner went on a trip to the Alps in 1969 and one of the pieces of gear he brought back was a big plastic [nylon ?] nut ,
It was bright yellow , shaped like a wide tapered wedge with a red webbing sling made for a placement in about a 2'' crack or pocket.
I can't recall the manufacturer , but I remember that it was stamped with the name and logo of one of the big name gear makers in the Alps, Stubai, Cassin or ?

Anyway ,we left it fixed during a retreat in the rain from the West Face of Guye Peak near Snoqualmie Pass in Washington in 1970. Maybe someone bottied it or it's still up there.

Anybody else see or use plastic nuts ?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 29, 2018 - 09:14am PT

West Face of Guye Peak

Wow, the Wayback Machine is crankin’! 🤪

I can see plastic Forrest nuts in my basement, if I want to.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 29, 2018 - 09:38am PT

The blue plastic Forrest Foxhead and large Peck black nylon nut are the only two that I have in my collection but Meastro Pennequin has a bunch in his so wait a bit and he will likely share what he has.
The trouble with plastic is cleaning the things once they have been fall loaded.

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Mar 29, 2018 - 10:24am PT

Dug this up last night...looked at the receipt from 2001 and I paid less than $3 for it. Boy has the market changed.

Thank you for solving the "G" stamp mystery!

Scrubber

climber

Straight outta Squampton

Mar 29, 2018 - 11:11am PT

One thing I haven't seen so far are plastic nuts.

I think all of the examples of synthetic nuts are shown in the Nutsmuseum collection, but here's one for this thread:

Mammut Bicoin / Bi-Keil #3. circa 1968 or 69 IIRC. This is the largest of the three sizes they made.

hammerhead

Mountain climber

Eastsound,Wa.

Mar 29, 2018 - 01:39pm PT

^^^
That looks a lot like the one I remember.
It was shaped like it was formed in a bread pan, tapered on all four sides but shallow in profile, not tall like a Stopper.

The West Face of Guye Peak was sort of like a mini version of the Eiger Nordwand to our young fevered minds. It was usually wrapped in bad weather, very steep and foreboding with crappy rock, and obscure route finding with all our little epics in view of the highway below.

On one attempt, my friend Garen and I were climbing with his dad, Bob. Garen and I were both about 16 at the time.
Garen led a difficult bulge off a mossy ledge . Bob tried to get up the pitch but couldn't do it ,even with a shoulder stand from me[ ouch ] It started to rain hard so we bagged it , rapping off the single plastic nut. A large rock was dislodged by the rope and hit me square on the helmet and bounced off my pack before falling into the clouds.

Not long after that trip , I broke my back in a fall and took about a six month break before I went back at it.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 29, 2018 - 01:48pm PT

Among the Carabin museum nuts below are Mammut and Krok plastic nuts.

ClimbingOn

Trad climber

Mar 29, 2018 - 03:19pm PT

Here are a few more examples of Gerry pins. I had thought the G stamp was the owner's mark, as his last name began with a G. The above posts solved that mystery for me. I just realized that I had promised Steve a picture of these a year ago and spaced on it - sorry!

Also part of the same set are two pins with the letters RB on one and WP on the other - any thoughts on these? They surely belong to the same time period as the Gerry pins. Climber's initials or something else?

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Mar 29, 2018 - 05:44pm PT

Hammerhead! As mentioned by Steve Grossman, U.S. climbing gear maker Bill Forest made some plastic nuts. I owned one in the early 1970's, as per these photos of two in our combined racks at the Bugaboo trailhead in Sept. 1972.

Closeup.

The blue plastic was hard, but not nearly as hard as metal. In 1974, on a new route in Idaho's Selkirk Mountains, I set one in a jam crack I was climbing. After deciding the next move was above my free-climbing limits at the time, I clipped a webbing etrier into the nut & stepped into it. After two steps up, as I was fishing for another jam, the nut popped & I took a short but scary fall, I missed landing back-first on a ledge 10' below me, by about 2". The rope stretch popped me back onto the ledge in a sitting position, & at age 23, I said: "Wow! That was lucky!"

When I examined the plastic nut, it had a sharp gouge down one side, where it had torn loose from a feldspar crystal, under just my body weight. I quit using plastic nuts.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 29, 2018 - 05:52pm PT

Never trusted them. I’m a full metal jacket kinda guy. I never qualified to carry Bill Forrest’s
lunch but I knew the difference between plastic and metal! 😉

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 29, 2018 - 09:42pm PT

On the shelf is three plastic Hexes made by Altitude Equipment - Australia. The yellow and red Poly-Hexs are usually on my rack, I love them! The problem is if you fall on a plastic nut it becomes welded in place and very difficult to remove.

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 29, 2018 - 11:28pm PT

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 31, 2018 - 06:18am PT

When I first discovered The Manta in the Wild Country catalogue 1994 I immediately planned to get it as my new working descender. I have always loved beautiful climbing gear and the Manta seemed to be made like a part of a modern plane. Its three-dimensional geometry was very innovative for a figure of eight. I waited to find it on the market but, unfortunately, it was never marketed. When I visited the Wild Country factory in May 1996, I asked Mark Vallance why this awesome descender never hit the market. If I remember well it was rather expensive to produce and a bit too heavy. I asked if I could see at least a prototype or the sample that was shown on the catalogue, but Mark Vallance was unable to find anything to show me…
Here, again and again, I would like to express all my gratitude to Marlow for generously and very kindly completing my range of the 1994 Wild Country belay devices. This prototype Manta is truly an impressive addition to the collection!

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 31, 2018 - 07:50am PT

Nutstory.

It's great to see your collection of Wild Country 1994 belay devices completed. It's also cool to see the difference between the Manta prototype and the Manta in the catalog. The prototype is more slim.

Scrubber

climber

Straight outta Squampton

Mar 31, 2018 - 08:50am PT

"The Hand" looks a lot like the new device from Edelrid, the Ohm, allowing light belayers a significant safety margin belaying heavier climbers. The Ohm obviously has a much less aggressive profile inside allowing for assisted braking and limited slip, whereas the Hand would need to grip positively.

K

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 31, 2018 - 11:33am PT

Donc très esthétique!

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Apr 1, 2018 - 12:33am PT

Parfait Steve, votre français est excellent ! Merci pour votre "post".
Joyeuses fêtes de Pâques !

CrustyOldYoungGuy

climber

Apr 19, 2018 - 12:00pm PT

slush pickets? mud stakes? wind chimes?

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Apr 19, 2018 - 12:10pm PT

my french suks so do me english, but my 'merican is above parYes, Those are tent pegs

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 3, 2018 - 11:13pm PT

Back in December Marlow posted a photo of a Leeper nut tool that I never knew existed. Six months later a second one surfaced and I was able to get it for the museum. pre 1980s for sure probably Ed Leepers first nut tool he created.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 4, 2018 - 08:23am PT

Congrats, Marty. That one is as good as new.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 4, 2018 - 07:34pm PT

Marlow - yesterday I received these awesome Gerry pitons. I am totally psyched to have these wonderful antiques! Thank you so much Marlow for your generosity! Also thanks Steve Grossman for the postal bump to get them to the museum.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Jul 8, 2018 - 01:10pm PT

I am tempted to call this a leaf piton. What say you?

this one seems to be some kind of sawed off channel angle pin. what do you know about dis thing?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Jul 8, 2018 - 01:17pm PT

I don't know anything, but on the last one is written "Made in Ukrania".

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Jul 11, 2018 - 05:39pm PT

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 12, 2018 - 03:26am PT

thebravecowboy - The top piton has the same eye as this 1960s Japanese piton I got from Jim Bridwell. I was thinking that maybe that small pin was formed from a broken piton, but it looks like it was made to be like a RURP. The second photo are you sure the channel is sawed off, or maybe the edge was pounded down with a hammer? The third photo is a beautiful titanium Ushba piton from Russia, c.2000.

Largo

Sport climber

The Big Wide Open Face

Jul 12, 2018 - 10:03am PT

The "G" on that horizontal pretty much conforms it that Gerry used that stamp all along.
----

Don't forget that the great Jerry Gallwas made his own pins and might have stamped them with a "G."

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Jul 12, 2018 - 07:54pm PT

Blakey

Trad climber

Sierra Vista

Jul 13, 2018 - 04:26am PT

nutstory

climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Jul 26, 2018 - 09:39am PT

Carlos, I quite believe that, once again, I need your help to find the history and the people behind TRI-ROCC...

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 11, 2018 - 06:44pm PT

The only TRI-ROCC item I have is a bolt hanger. They made nuts and nut tools also?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 11, 2018 - 06:47pm PT

Does anybody know any info on this piton?

Manufacturers stamp "PH"

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 12, 2018 - 09:21pm PT

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 17, 2018 - 03:12pm PT

Unknown homemade piton set donated by Michael Chessler.

Anybody know who made these? My feeling is Europe somewhere.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Aug 17, 2018 - 03:18pm PT

No clue on the last set.
PH might be Peter Habeler but those pitons look a bit older than that.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 17, 2018 - 04:04pm PT

Steve - nice to hear from you. With the gear threads Supertopo has been quiet for months.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 18, 2018 - 04:50pm PT

Another few pitons with unknown manufacturer. The lower one is marked with 3 dots which is the markings from Bill Sewrey in AZ, who else marked their gear with three dots?

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Aug 18, 2018 - 06:41pm PT

While I was in Colorado I visited the Gary Neptune Museum. Tons of great historical gear! Gary wasn't there but I ran into him later at the OR Show. So Gary believes the piton is a Dick Williams creation and I show it as a Norton Smithe. Hmmmmmm.

Still trying to figure out the unknown piton as well.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Sep 18, 2018 - 04:45pm PT

Now I know I've seen the two-eyed proto-KB described before, but can one of you old salts help me out here?

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Sep 18, 2018 - 04:49pm PT

That thing is sweet!

oh, for the pictures below- ILL say I'm 90% sure of the pin,
the 'biner not so much
but I'LL take a stab, - & say that the steel 'biner is a Bonaiti,

The pin is Army/Navy. surplus.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Sep 22, 2018 - 09:51pm PT

c'mon now you scurvy dogs, what the heck is that last one? for the record, I clipped each one on the way up on their respective pitches, and then they fell out with a shake of the sling on the descent.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 22, 2018 - 10:12pm PT

You're in the Army now...

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Sep 22, 2018 - 10:14pm PT

That proto-KB looks non-army to me, and I know I've seen them somewhere, while the LA-style thing and steel hardware store 'biner are less curiousity-inducing (imo).

Moof

Big Wall climber

Orygun

Oct 19, 2018 - 10:24am PT

Colorado Nutco history link I stumbled on:
https://therobertreport.net/2017/06/27/colorado-nut-company-a-jaded-history-as-told-by-billy-roos-this-past-autumn-sept-2015-while-sipping-beers-at-the-rocky-flats-lounge/
I've managed to scrounge up a couple I-beam chocks, one 4", one 1 1/2" (my white whale). Now I need to get off my arse and climb again...

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Nov 15, 2018 - 11:43am PT

Not very old, but a new mystery to me: Do you know where these were made?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 17, 2018 - 07:15pm PT

Those look Russian to me. Ushba has offerings that resemble those lower wafer pitons in design.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Nov 18, 2018 - 09:06am PT

Steve: Yes, they could very well be Russian...

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Nov 25, 2018 - 11:50am PT

Do you know the history of Grivel pitons or when the Grivel pitons below were made?

The upper piton above is the lower piton below:

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 25, 2018 - 12:36pm PT

Nice finds Marlow!
The finer stamp with the ellipse around it is more recent and likely early 1960s. The other is likely 1950s era and might have belonged to Toni Gobbi or one of the other members of the Gobbi family connected with the operation of Grivel.
Both pitons look to be entirely forged by hand and hence fairly early in production.
Unfortunately historical information and timelines are disappearing from manufacturer's websites making the dating even more difficult as knowledgeable older folks are becoming less accessible. A lot of work needs to be done here that I wish I was in a position to accomplish.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Nov 25, 2018 - 12:38pm PT

Steve. Cool... thank you for the Gobbi connection...

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Nov 28, 2018 - 07:57pm PT

Marlow - Nice Grivel pitons! The items in this photo are made in the Ukraine distributed by Gear 4 Rocks. I believe all of the items especially the fifi hook were made by Krok in Ukraine.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Dec 10, 2018 - 03:22pm PT

not in my possession, but I am wondering what/who/when these are...

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 14, 2018 - 08:47am PT

Without a stamp of some sort it is really tough to identify verticals. I have easily more than a dozen mystery verts in my collection. Finding a catalog match is about as good as you can hope for and that often lets you know only country of origin. Lots of work to be done in this area.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Dec 14, 2018 - 09:40am PT

Thebravecowboy

Have you asked eispickel61?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Dec 14, 2018 - 09:54am PT

No mystery. but the first time I see them: A primitive Cassin ice screw model

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Dec 14, 2018 - 10:32am PT

My one foray into ice climbing was with short-eye versions of those. I was skeptical of the entire enterprise to begin with and they add to my confidence.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 15, 2018 - 11:33am PT

I have never seen those screws before. They strike me as too heavy.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Dec 15, 2018 - 11:50am PT

They might be heavier but that could mean they might hold a few hundred kilos,
huh? They look a lot beefier than those lame red shafted ones we had which
might keep you from falling off yer feet if you fell asleep on belay.

nutstory

Trad climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Dec 15, 2018 - 12:16pm PT

These Cassin ice screws are not mentioned in previous Au Vieux Campeur catalogs.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 15, 2018 - 12:24pm PT

Those Grivel screws are certainly intriguing. Anybody have one for show and tell?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Dec 15, 2018 - 12:45pm PT

What, I’m sposed to run down to my basement maintenant? 🤨

nutstory

Trad climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Dec 15, 2018 - 02:02pm PT

Oui, maintenant! ;-)

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Dec 15, 2018 - 02:07pm PT

Speaking of old scary ice screws. I bought this Charlet Moser Made in FR screw about 1971 & it shows at top in our gear photo taken in Sept. 1972 in the Bugaboos parking lot.

I never had the confidence to use it, except for opening wine. It worked well on corks.

7.5" long, 5/16" thick.

nutstory

Trad climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Dec 15, 2018 - 02:21pm PT

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Feb 17, 2019 - 07:09pm PT

One of the ice screws has a mfg sticker on it showing that it is Salewa, but the other ice screw is unmarked. Both ice screw tubes are the same, but the carabiner clip loop is different. Is the unmarked ice screw also a Salewa?

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Feb 18, 2019 - 01:05am PT

Stephane, interesting to see there was an axe to go with those screws. I did exactly one ice climb and it was with those screws. Never touched ice again.

nutstory

Trad climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Feb 18, 2019 - 03:51am PT

Joseph, you have done much more than me in your Life. I have never done any ice climb at all ;-)

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 18, 2019 - 01:50pm PT

Marty- Your mystery screw looks lik an updated version of the marked Salewa. I suspect that they realized that having a bit more room designed into the eye loop detail made placement with an ice tool easier.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Feb 19, 2019 - 07:21pm PT

Steve - The two screws were together in a ebay lot.

Here are three more unknown ice screws. Any ideas on the mfg or how old they are?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 19, 2019 - 07:31pm PT

No idea...I've seen ring screws like the one on the right that are 60s era by my best estimation. Post that shot on the Classic Ice Primer thread.

tiki-jer

Trad climber

fresno/clovis

Feb 20, 2019 - 10:04am PT

tiki-jer

Trad climber

fresno/clovis

Feb 20, 2019 - 10:08am PT

Anybody know anything about this steel monster? Markings are hard to make out....looks like 06 with an arrow and 10?

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Feb 20, 2019 - 10:22am PT

Wow! Steel?

grover

climber

Castlegar BC

Feb 28, 2019 - 09:34pm PT

I’m in the midst of a gear trade, the six pieces below, plus 4 bongs (no pic yet) will be arriving in a week or so.

I’ve identified three out of six in the pic.

1- Peck Ny-chock
2- ice piton? Never seen anything like it
3- Salewa Warthog - early 70’s?
4- no idea, ice or rock? The ring is pretty sweet though.
5- pretty cool snow/ice stake (or whatever you wanna call it) I might take this bad boy into the alpine, looks light
6- Salewa Tube - early 70’s?

Peace

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Feb 28, 2019 - 11:37pm PT

#4 is also an ice piton from the way back machine. Cool!

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Mar 1, 2019 - 08:05am PT

No new ideas, but the #3 photo Salewa Warthog dates from the mid to late 1970's. Salewa replaced it with a slightly different warthog in the late 70's. After the UIAA tested all available ice screws in the late 70's, a write-up of the test in Mountain Magazine showed warthogs did not have much holding power in ice, as compared to tubular screws.

Here's a Salewa Warthog we placed on the Chouinard Route on Mt. Fay, in the Canadian Rubblies, in 1978.

grover

climber

Castlegar BC

Mar 1, 2019 - 01:45pm PT

Thanks Bruce and Fritz.

Mt.Fay, sweet. Ya those warthogs look beefy but I wouldn’t want to whip on one!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 1, 2019 - 06:07pm PT

grover- Nice score!

#1- Peck Ny-Chock 1970s

#2- may be Stubai. It compares to the orange bent eye ice pitons I have on the display board. My guess it is a Stubai early 1960s. Stubai name starts in 1958/1959.

#3 is a Salewa Spiral piton that Chouinard was selling mentioned in the Chouinard 1969 catalog. In the 1972 Chouinard catalog the name was changed to Salewa Warthog.

#4 is Werk-Fulpmes-Ralling goes back to the 1950s.

#5 ice tube I have not seen yet. Nice piece! The slots on it are similar to two ice pitons I have from Ever New from Japan, 1970s.

#6 Salewa tubular ice screw mid to late 1960s. Chouinard was showing these pitons in the late 1960s Chouinard catalog.

grover

climber

Castlegar BC

Mar 1, 2019 - 08:10pm PT

Thanks Marty!

I’ll have a look for markings on the mystery ice piton when it arrives.

grover

climber

Castlegar BC

Mar 11, 2019 - 12:41pm PT

The mystery picket is made by Interalp-Camp

And #2 has no markings besides the previous owners name stamped in it.

nutstory

Trad climber

Ajaccio, Corsica, France

Mar 11, 2019 - 01:05pm PT

grover

climber

Castlegar BC

Mar 11, 2019 - 07:47pm PT

Nice, thanks Stéphane.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Mar 13, 2019 - 07:39am PT

Great Stephane! I was thinking that tube could be Camp but I no longer have the Camp catalog files you sent me years ago. The thieves that broke into my house did a great job of having me start over with everything I had stored on the computer.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Apr 14, 2019 - 12:43pm PT

I lately found these pitons in Austria. I was surprised by the form of some of them. Did Werk Fulpmes first make blade pitons with "two eyes" like the one in the photo?

WyoRockMan

climber

Grizzlyville, WY

Apr 16, 2019 - 07:51am PT

I found this interesting.
Mad respect for the effort.

http://adventuremilo.com/2019/04/hand-made-climbing-equipment-from-iraq/?fbclid=IwAR0hzoqxTg2j28wmee0_m6StJ3rZrvYbcKo1QRKUT-AD6c8VQw-xfWLCego

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 16, 2019 - 09:01am PT

Trying to establish originality of design when it comes to older pitons is really tough but Werk Fulpmes is a good guess and not Stubai in my experience. The somewhat mysterious pitons simply stamped MADE IN AUSTRIA are the earliest versions that I have seen with Cassin not far ahead. Certainly a sensible design that solves the eye crowding problem inherent in placing vertical pitons into corners.