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knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 1, 2008 - 03:40pm PT
I recently got my hands on a collection of old passive pro (peck crackers, clog nuts, etc) and included where some pieces that aren't stamped with size or manufacturer information. I'll try to post some pictures of the stuff I'm stumped on. I'd greatly appreciate any hard information, or even vague speculation, as to the manufacturer of aforementioned mystery pro.



Assorted mystery nuts. The hex on the left greatly resembles a Colorado Nut hex that I have but it isn't stamped. The nut on the far right looks more or less exactly like one of the CLOG nuts I've got, but again isn't stamped. As for the two large nuts in the middle, I have no idea.



Odd aluminum I-beam choks. I'd love to know if these things where commercially available at some point or if someone made these in the garage.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Feb 1, 2008 - 03:43pm PT
Look 'em up right here:

http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/nutsstory.htm
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 1, 2008 - 04:13pm PT
Colorado Nut Company (Bill Roos and Paul Sibley) made three sizes of I-beam nuts in the early 70s: 1.75", 3" and 4" as I recall (they were all about 2" placed sideways). Your I-beams look a lot like NutCo's, but I can't tell if they actually are.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
Thanks Clint, I've been hitting the nut museum website pretty hard recently trying to ID stuff. I haven't found anything that closely resembles the mystery gear though.

If those I-beam chocks turn out to be Colorado Nut gear that would be cool. Any ideas when these puppies might have been on the market?



Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 1, 2008 - 04:20pm PT
Here's a photo I posted earlier on the New Scanner -- Old Climbs thread, showing Steve Wunsch carrying 1.75" and 3" I-beams in 1971.

maldaly

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 1, 2008 - 04:23pm PT
That thing with a sling through it is Moac, one of the best nuts ever. I think it only came in one size. Tom Frost has used the basic profile of it in his Sentinel Nuts. http://frostworksclimbing.com/sentinel.html
Mal
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 1, 2008 - 04:25pm PT
knieveltech:
If those I-beam chocks turn out to be Colorado Nut gear that would be cool. Any ideas when these puppies might have been on the market?

My best guess would be 1970-72. Their nuts improved on the Clog and Peck nuts that were available at the time, but NutCo's heyday drew to a close as Chouinard's hexentrics and tube chocks came along -- the next good idea.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 04:30pm PT
Maldaly: thanks a ton, that's one off my list.

Chiloe: The I-beams in your picture look exactly like the chocks I have, I'd say you hit the nail on the head. Thanks!
Moof

Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
Feb 1, 2008 - 06:02pm PT
Only ever seen one other Colorado nut, and it is still in frequent active use the the owner. It's one of those magic pieces that just finds a home on every pitch, and works great for an impromptu hammer for stubborn, lesser, nuts.

Any interest in selling them?
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 06:45pm PT
Not really. I just finished re-slinging them and plan on taking them for a test drive tomorrow. Once I'm done putting together a rack of old pro I'm going to hunt down some tights. I'm bringin lycra back!
bachar

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Feb 1, 2008 - 06:52pm PT
Charlie Porter used to make some pretty nice nuts....

Anybody still have any of those?
scuffy b

climber
Stump with a backrest
Feb 1, 2008 - 07:14pm PT
I had one of his cam hexes, but it was part of the rack that got
boosted out of my car in 75.
It was heavy.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2008 - 09:48pm PT
So I took the I-beams out to the crag today. Finding a placement was a bit tricky but once I did I'm confident you'd have to tear down the crag to pull it out. Definitely keepers.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 2, 2008 - 10:07pm PT
My personal favorite home made was a nut fashioned by Marty Woerner that features the word ZONK stamped into the 1" aluminum hex stock.

Check out the Diamond C Ice Gear at Neptune's Thread for some funk!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Feb 2, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
"I'm bringin lycra back!"

armageddon isn't supposed to happen for a couple more years.

yep, definite sign of apocalypse, yep
MisterE

Social climber
My Inner Nut
Feb 3, 2008 - 11:00am PT
As long as you don't start wearing the "Old Mystery Lycra" ! :-O
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2008 - 08:55am PT
It looks like Moof's statement about I beams finding a placement on every pitch is spot on. They especially have a knack for fitting in funky crystal-lined cracks where nothing else on my rack wants to go.
thedogfather

climber
Midwest
Apr 18, 2008 - 09:05am PT
I remember carrying several of the blue CMI girders for Devils Tower decades ago. If you think hexes make a lot of noise on a rack, you should have heard those things.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 18, 2008 - 10:54am PT
Moof:
Only ever seen one other Colorado nut, and it is still in frequent active use the the owner. It's one of those magic pieces that just finds a home on every pitch, and works great for an impromptu hammer for stubborn, lesser, nuts.

kneiveltech:
It looks like Moof's statement about I beams finding a placement on every pitch is spot on. They especially have a knack for fitting in funky crystal-lined cracks where nothing else on my rack wants to go.


Recently discovered another old photo (1970) of Colorado NutCo founder Paul Sibley, climbing with his gear.

Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:02pm PT
Your first photos won't open here, for some reason. But since Malcolm nailed one piece as a MOAC, I gotta chime in.

I've had a MOAC on my rack since 1967. Quite simply the best piece ever. The rounded shape comes from being sandcast, which gives it a "human-feel" esthetic. Heard once what the word meant, but to me it's always stood for "Most Obvious Artificial Chockstone." I get a tad ritualistic about it, feeling like a climb isn't truly protected until I have begun placing it.

The MOAC was definitely our main model when Tom Frost and I designed Stoppers. And I find it very interesting that decades later when he came out with Sentinel Nuts -- and I won't leave the ground without a full set (see, the curves have gone too far. They cam in place nicely, but they get way too stuck) -- Frost returned to the steeper angles of the MOAC.

I once soloed halfway up the standard route on Pingora to retrieve the MOAC after a client couldn't get it out.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:16pm PT
Doug -- the MOAC used to be one of those place-on-just-about-every-pitch pieces of gear for me, when climbing Eldorado in the early 70s. Later, Bill Forest used the same taper in two sizes of Foxheads, one of them blue plastic. Those became favorite pieces as well.


Here's a blowup of the NutCo I-beam on Sibley's rack, from my photo upthread.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:18pm PT
Does MOAC stand for something? Don't think I ever knew the answer.
scuffy b

climber
up the coast from Woodson
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:42pm PT
Funny thing about the MOAC.
After I started using Stoppers, I didn't like
the shape of the MOAC so much, and filed it
down so it had the Stopper angles.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2008 - 12:47pm PT
DR: Your first photos won't open here, for some reason.

Yeah, my web server is temporarily offline. The pics will come back once I reboot it, maybe later today. As far as the MOAC goes, I've reslung it and have been contemplating adding it to my rack, I'm not sure how well it'll function in quartzite/meta-sandstone/quartz conglomerate though.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:51pm PT
MOAC does stand for or mean something. I made a point of asking when I was in Sheffield. Now I've forgotten. May have it written in a notebook somewhere...

Funny about the Stopper taper. While I insist on carrying the MOAC and the Frost Sentinels, I also mix in a few of the classic Stoppers. Seems a useful assortment. Or maybe just an old crusty overdoin' the CYA...

I also had a few of those I-Beam things for awhile. Monsterously heavy, tho, so I quit carrying them.

And Foxheads: could never get my sense of security around a slipppery plastic nut.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:57pm PT
The MOAC worked for me in every rock I've tried -- most, by now.

I sling it and all my bigger pieces with 9 mm dynamic rope. Not accessory cord, but pieces of old lead rope. I figure it works like a minor version of a screamer, lowering the peak impact force a bit on my top piece. Thus I hope it nudges my system toward not breaking the piece or the rock it's placed in.
rockanice

climber
new york
Apr 18, 2008 - 03:23pm PT


Preparing to climb Little Fingers on Roger's Slide (Rock) on Lake George July 1973. This photo was a copycat of The Robbin's photos with his gear neatly laid out on a picnic table before the Nose and Salathe.
My second season, I'm in the middle.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Apr 18, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
Looks like the "A" team.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
Apr 18, 2008 - 03:56pm PT
Far as I could tell, even the Nut Museum doesn't have a set of these:



Leeper Z Nutz.

Ha. I should sling those babys up and take 'em climbing. They ring nicely as they dangle together.
Ed Bannister

Mountain climber
Riverside, CA
Apr 18, 2008 - 07:48pm PT
Hi Kris!

Leeper Zs also on another thread today, I have a set somewhere too.

As for MOAC, were they English??

I have a wired MOAC that is a solid round tube, never seen one of those since, and the nuts I never used as the taper was so fast that they were hard to seat... ie i would rather fix a piece than have it fall out.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 18, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
MOAC = "MOuntain ACtivities"

from

http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/nutsstory.htm

"Ellis Brigham, owner of a chain of outdoor shops in UK who sponsored the die cast first production run, also owned a climbing equipment import company, Mountain Activities. Therefore the name MOAC was chosen for
this nut, that many British and American climbers still carry them for sentimental reasons."


MOAC on left, acorn on right
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 19, 2008 - 01:14am PT
John,

I've only seen Charlie's double slider nuts and bashies, would love to other gear he made if anyone has some of it.





Ksolem, you'll be making Stephane drool over that collection of the little AntiZtons - very nice. I think he only has a couple.

And Clint, sometimes I get the impression that of all the gear in the Nut Museum that the MOACs are what Stephane treasures most of all.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 19, 2008 - 08:01am PT
Clint, you've cleared up that ancient MOAC mystery in my mind.

Some day I should dig out that box of old hardware in my attic, and see if there's anything worth photographing.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 19, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
Start digging - inquiring minds want to know...
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 19, 2008 - 08:00pm PT
Now that I see the opening photo (thanks!) that MOAC is way different from mine. On mine every edge is rounded at about 1/4" radius. Likewise the top of the nut is milled away between the two holes so that the rope sits partway down, recessed into the head. The look of it is strikingly different, feeling like it was shaped by hand rather than sawed off of bar stock like that MOAC in the photo, all Stoppers, etc.

The article Clint referenced says the first model was carved out of balsa wood. So if that balsa MOAC was pressed into wet sand and aluminum was poured in, you'd get the nut I have.

Clint, thanks for that article!

Very lively and knowledgable. I learned a lot. Climbed on pretty much every one of the Clogs and Pecks in the late 60s and early 70s. I still have one knurled Peck here.

And my prize piece of hardware: a nut from the Snowdon Railway.
Dennis Hennek gave it to me after picking it up from the tracks.
It's hanging on a piece of hemp sling, over the fireplace.

Note to self: buy digital camera. I would love to share photos of this stuff with you guys.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 20, 2008 - 12:13pm PT
Here are some Clog I-beams along with other early nuts bought in the early 70's.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 21, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
healyje:
Start digging - inquiring minds want to know...

One or two oddities lurked at the bottom of that box in my attic. Here's one I'd forgotten
about: the first "screamer"? This was a Bill Forrest design, early 70s. As I recall Bill's
story, he put a lot of development effort into this idea. I haven't taken it apart, but
my recollection is that the principle was more complicated than just ripping stitches.

Anybody else use these things, or test them out?

Double D

climber
Apr 21, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
Bump for way cool thread. Anyone have pictures of the machine nuts with a sling n knot through them that the Brits used to use in the early 70's?

I remember making my first "Porter Cam" with a grinder and a block of aluminum. It was sorta like a hexicentric but the smaller side was rounded and cammed.

Forrest screamer???...Never even knew!
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 21, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
I need to take a pic, but I was wordering if anyone knows about a chock that was stamped ec. I found it at the top the Black Wall at Donner, probably 20 years ago. It was a straight tapered aluminum stopper with a swaged cable loop.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 21, 2008 - 04:27pm PT
Double D:
Forrest screamer???...Never even knew!

Must have been an idea ahead of its time. I don't remember hearing much about Forrest's
version, unlike the later idea of screamers.

Also pre-screamers, I once dropped by John Bouchard's place in North Conway when he was
testing a new shock-absorbing device, using a tree and cement bucket as his setup. The
shock-absorber was judged successful when he could catch a 20-foot drop of the cement
bucket with a runner made of shoelace.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 21, 2008 - 04:32pm PT
I didn't have the concept of saving things that might become museum pieces, BITD, so this
lovely Dolt piton got used on a number of A4s. The steel seemed to be tougher than
Chouinard's chrome moly.



Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 21, 2008 - 06:46pm PT
There was such a thing as a Holubar piton, at least that's what it says on the top
piece here. The other two say Stubai. I'm not sure what these were designed for, but
I used to think they might work as soft-rock bolts. Apparently I never tried out that theory.



Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 21, 2008 - 10:34pm PT
The Fall Arrestor was a Bill Forrest original I am pretty sure. Kevlar back strap and lots of strands of some miracle elastomeric compound. Way overdesigned compared to the sewn technology in the Yates' versions.

I had my one and only test ride during the FA of the Central Scrutinizer. I had exited Tribal Rite and set up a super exposed bolt belay on the very prow of the Nose. Above curved a thin expanding flake for about thirty feet and then a little, swirled crease coughed up a #3 and #4 RP which I set up. Forrest first, Yates Screamer beneath, and bravely worked my way up a series of overlaps culminating in an American Tourister with a long medium Bug neatly driven behind it! Jay Ladin craned his neck and was none too happy to track the dislodged scraps of rock within reach down in the sandchair.
I got into second steps and my entire vacation plans changed to air travel as the suitcase spit me out. I crossed my arms and went into a very slow roll as it all compressed and remember hearing the horrid ripping sound and feeling the rope quiver under load while upside down. Suddenly it all settled down and I righted myself and looked right across at Jay. "Whoa dude! Are you all right?" Yup, I'm okay. "Steve, I think I might be getting a bit old for this sort of thing!"
I looked back up to the awesome Aussie nuggets and fireworks shock absorbers that had stopped my big screamer at fifty rather than over one hundred and factor 2-!
I felt a bit old myself but this was a good route and the same Bug got an extra dose and didn't fail this time long enough to get a decent placement around the top latch and move by. The tattered and tweezed fall arrestors saved my bacon!
Ed Bannister

Mountain climber
Riverside, CA
Apr 21, 2008 - 10:55pm PT
Forrest actually did do screamers. and Bill did put a lot of effort into making them smooth in the process of absorbing energy, many falls duplicated on his tower built for that purpose.

It consisted of three different lengths of web made out a fiber that stretched one time only, backed up by nylon....

But, Chiloe..

the pic of the screamer you supplied above, probably is not a Forrest.
I think you might want to double check,
peel back the Lycra cover and you will find a YATES tag where the webbing is sewn to itself. Yates sewed the clippable loop to hold it open along the axis of the web, so I am pretty confident this is a yates screamer

This is a rip the stitches out design, very dependable to absorb energy, but not real smooth either.

OK maybe this is a little too much gear info.
Ed


Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 22, 2008 - 09:19am PT
But, Chiloe..

the pic of the screamer you supplied above, probably is not a Forrest.
I think you might want to double check, peel back the Lycra cover and you will find a
YATES tag where the webbing is sewn to itself. Yates sewed the clippable loop to hold it
open along the axis of the web, so I am pretty confident this is a yates screamer


I double checked, and Alpspitz is dead right. That is a photo of a Yates device. Sorry folks!
Bill Forrest described his new invention to me back in the 70s, I remember that part well.
Then finding the mystery pro in my attic the other day, I mistakenly guessed that's
what it was.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 22, 2008 - 09:23am PT
But here's an ID I'm more sure of, one of the original rounded-off MOACs that DR mentions upthread.
Based on a balsa wood prototype, you say? I guess that could explain the smoothed, almost organic shape.

nutstory

climber
Apr 25, 2008 - 02:49am PT
Bonjour,

Steve Grossman, these I-beams were not made by Clog but by Parba. In 1968 Paul Seddon produced what were probably the first nuts for wide cracks, the Big-H, which were cut from an H-section extrusion. In 1970, Paul Seddon teamed up with Tony Howard and Alan Waterhouse at Troll. That is the reason why one can find Big-H stamped either Parba or Troll. It would be very interesting to know which name is stamped on your one-hole Wedges… Parba or Troll…? Parba would probably drive me crazy…

Stephane / Nuts Museum

Ghoulwe

Trad climber
Spokane, WA
Apr 25, 2008 - 07:34am PT
Chiloe:

If that is a Forrest product, I'm guessing it is an early proto of the Fall Arrest. Bill took a bunch of time (and money) developing it, I believe with Rose Manufacturing in Denver. He released it in the early '80's but it wasn't very well recieved - too much money for a one-time use product.

Under the sheath it had a program-stitched stretchy material that absorbed impact. I had the pleasure of testing them with him one day prior to the product release at Castle Rock in Boulder canyon. It was kinda' like falling on a bungee cord. Still got a couple of them in my home collection.

Eric
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 25, 2008 - 10:48am PT
Ghoulwe, thanks, I recall some of that story from conversations with Forrest. Unfortunately, as
Alpspitz noticed upthread, I mis-identified a Yates device as being the Forrest piece in question.

Does anybody have a photo of a real Forrest Fall Arrest?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 25, 2008 - 10:50am PT
No mystery about this venerable old pro.

steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 25, 2008 - 11:22am PT
Just a teaser for ya... don't get your hopes up.
They're not going anywhere.


Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 25, 2008 - 12:33pm PT
Quite a collection, Greg. They don't look very used!

I wish I'd kept all my old stuff, who knew?

Anyway, here's Colorado NutCo's version of I-beam. about 3" x 2".

steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 25, 2008 - 12:40pm PT
Thanks Larry - they are pretty much scratch free. Actually was sort of surprised to find that MOAC in that pile. I'd forgotten it was in there.

Figure Stephane is over having an anuerism about now. :-)
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 27, 2008 - 01:42pm PT
Well here's one from the vault for ID The middle nut has no stamp but by the cable girth and rounded corners I bet its the smallest Moac of them all. Stephane?!?






Shown with a #6 aid shorty and #6 1/2 standard Stopper for shape comparison.

So right about the Troll/Parba on the I-beams. Any other nuts released under the name of Parba? The one holers are all Clog stamped.
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Apr 27, 2008 - 02:09pm PT
Prompted by this thread I just dug up my old Forrest catalog. It has a great treatise on nutwork and many illustrations of unique Titon placements.

Unfortunately, it is of 70's vintage so predates the Fall Arrest, as I believe they were called, so no photos.

Looking at it makes me wonder why it is not attained classic status like the 72 Chouinard catalog. I learned a lot from it as a kid. Somehow Bill just never had the cachet that the California boys had.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 27, 2008 - 02:28pm PT
BITD, Bill told a story about how he tested the Forrest wall hammer, which was the first of
its kind with a fiberglass handle (the middle one in this photo from Cascadeclimbers).



Wanting to be sure that the new hammer was durable, and also to reassure skeptical climbers, Bill
said that he chained a prototype (through its carabiner hole) to a post in his yard, then offered
the neighborhood kids -- he suggested it was a tough neighborhood -- $10 or something if they
could break the hammer simply by swinging it hard against the chain.

The only requirement was they had to keep count of how many swings each kid made, and log
those in a notebook so Bill would know how long it took to break. At the time of this story he
said the kids were working hard, 10,000 swings so far, but the hammer still hadn't broken.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 27, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
Steve, that middle nut of yours does look like the small wired MOAC. My partner used to carry
one of those things everywhere.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 27, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
I could never understand the limited size offerings early on from overseas. Gotta love that fat cable even though it put a lot of torque on the placements. I found my trusty Fall Arrestor, blown and resewn. The aidscreamers are my choice for clipping crap these days and much lighter!



TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Apr 27, 2008 - 04:35pm PT
Chiloe:

The last pic you posted (of the three hammers)...
The top one (the alpine hammer) has a sticker with the word 'Mjolnir'

You got me currious and I had to go look at mine.
The sticker is there but all the print is worn off.




Was not 'Mjolnir' the name of a European gear manufacturer as well ?

I was wondering:
Did Forrest work with other (larger) manufacturers in much the same way as Chouinard/InterAlp?
Raydog

Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
Apr 27, 2008 - 06:14pm PT
RE:
"I was wondering:
Did Forrest work with other (larger) manufacturers in much the same way as Chouinard/InterAlp?"

an interesting question...
wish I knew more about the (Bill) Forrest gear legacy
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 27, 2008 - 06:19pm PT
Mjolnir (also spelled Mjollnir) was the name of an enchanted hammer belonging to Thor,
the Norse thunder god. I secretly wondered whether Forrest thought of that name due to
its resurrection in the Marvel comic books. Naw, couldn't be.

Forrest's polygonal Mjollnir looked vaguely like the Marvel version, IMHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics);

And neither looks much like the historical representations of Mjolnir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mjolnir
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Aug 2, 2008 - 01:50am PT
How did I miss this thread?

A bit of an old thread but one worth bumping to the top of the heap from time to time.

So, here ya go. Here's some stuff I've accumulated over the years from various sources. See if you can identify it. Some easy, some not so much.


First up, a mistery nut I have.
No visable markings on the nut. I thought It might be an old Chounard, but doesn't match any of my other old Chounard nuts.






Another mystery nut. This one looks to be pretty modern.






Some interesting cams made by Edelrid.


Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 2, 2008 - 01:58am PT
First nut (wedge) may be a MOAC. Pre-stoppers.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Aug 2, 2008 - 11:51am PT
Here's a "D" biner I bootied on a "not so well traveled" route in the Valley. Looked to have been there a while.

Next to a modern oval for size referance.
It's one of the biggest aluminum crabs I've seen.




Two old style Chouinard biners, just for fun.

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Aug 2, 2008 - 01:27pm PT
Salamanizer,

The first nut is a MOAC. They only came in one size.

Ken
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 16, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
I had the honor of sorting through a big box of old climbing gear for my boss last summer. I started by just emptying the box and spreading it out, then taking a picture. Unfortunately this is the only one I have of most of the gear.
What I'm most curious about is the nuts in the bottom leftish of the picture they look like they're used in a similar way to a hex. It's like a normal nut with two nubs from each side. The nubs run the length of the nut, but it you were to hold the but in front of you, the nubs are offset vertically

Also of interest are the biners in the bottom right, to the left of the nuts. The biners have a bar that crosses their axis, and spins freely. When I asked about it I was told that they're for making a carabiner brake, but I could never ID who made them.



For the fun of it, you're more than welcome to try you hand at IDing anything else in the picture. I have closer pics of some things, so feel free to ask. Thanks go out to the nut museum, without them I never would have been able to identify as much as I did
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Oct 17, 2008 - 12:33am PT
Those hexes are made by Clog I believe. I have a couple that are identical accept slung with cord. Early to mid 70's I believe. Not certain.

What the hell is that aluminum nut looking thing just above them?
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Oct 17, 2008 - 12:38am PT
If we're looking at the same thing it is a Forrest PinBin? I think thats the right name.

edit: I don't think I'm looking at the same item!
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Oct 17, 2008 - 12:42am PT
Not the pin bin, (though I was wondering about that too) the thingy just to the right. Looks like a square with some grooves and a hole in the top.
nutstory

climber
Oct 17, 2008 - 03:19am PT
Bonjour Basilisk & Salamanizer!

The nuts on the bottom left are Clog Cogs! The one alone just above them is also a Clog Cog, but it is pictured upside-down. These nuts hit the market in 1976 and had to be the serious British competitor for the Chouinard Hexentrics. In fact, unfortunately for Clog, they never became popular. The original sets consisted of the sizes 1 to 10. The sizes 1 to 5 were available either on wire or on rope; the sizes 6 to 10 were only available on rope. These five bigger sizes were too much heavy so, in a second generation (the ones on your photo), these sizes were made shorter, with two holes on the top, and just one hole on the bottom. The early longer sizes are rare…

If I had understood how to post a photo on this forum, I would have showed you a couple of good pics of these nuts…

The three blue hexes on the bottom are C.M.I. Hexachoks (no “c” before the “k”), made circa 1976.

Stephane / Nuts Museum
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 17, 2008 - 11:29am PT
Hi Stephane, thanks a bunch for your email. Here's a copy of the pic you set me



The hexachoks are interesting too- I could never find any info on those. Never suspected they were that old. Are they the first anodized chock?
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 17, 2008 - 11:52am PT
Damn, those chocks don’t look used at all.

The Colorado nut is an awesome piece of gear. (this may have already been stated, didn’t read each post) However…

The “fins” will snap right off, if the nut is placed incorrectly.
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Oct 17, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
Not the first anodized chock, but maybe the first good anodized chock.
Dolt was anodizing chocks much earlier than this, spidernuts, trunuts, etc.
Most of his stuff didn't have a great shape.
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 18, 2008 - 11:33pm PT
More goodies from Stéphane!



* Clog Cogs 2: The first advertisement for the Clog Cogs, published in Climber and Rambler in August 1976.



* CMI Hexachoks 1: CMI Hexachoks and Wired Hexachoks. The 2 wedges are prototype Wallnuts designed by CMI for Royal Robbins

Stéphane, any idea what's going on with that up-ended hexachok on the left? It looks like it's only been hollowed out halfway. Just a different design they were playing with?

On the Cog photo it mentions stacking, something I hadn't even thought of when I played with them. It sort of an early Bluewater CocoNut in that respect. Stacking nuts has really fallen off these days.



I gotta say, I am supremely jealous of all this info! Keep it coming please!
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 20, 2008 - 12:32pm PT
MORE!

"It is a real pleasure to “drive anybody mad” with all the info I can supply… so enjoy again!


The attached pic should answer your question about the CMI Hexachok. In fact all the Hexachoks were manufactured with a 1/8” web in the center. This page is an extract from the CMI catalog 1975!

If I am not mistaken, the Bluewater Coconuts were in fact made by the French company Simond in 1996 and known here as Camerocks. These nuts were never really popular in France. An earlier version of these nuts is the Simond Bicams (attached pic), made in 1986. The nuts with the red plastic sleeve can be stacked together, but not with the nuts with the blue plastic sleeve, and vice versa;

Stéphane"






It's pretty interesting that "I-beam technology" was being implemented even back then. I thought that was just a recent thing, thus why DMM obsesses over it so much

I was just thinking it strange that the concave side of the nuts was on the outside, but I just noticed the coconuts did the same. In fact I can't think of any other way to do it aside from the modern concave/convex nuts.

The Coconuts/camrocks were never popular in the states either. Regardless, I was thrilled to come across an ad for them in an old guidebook to North Conway. I was even more thrilled when I found the units themselves last summer
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 20, 2008 - 12:39pm PT
Salamanizer (a few post back), they sure look a lot like

Supernuts.

"The nut, that always get stuck!"

(because the bottom is rounded, there is no way to "hammer" at it, with your nut tool)

Basilisk...interesting drawings. Very nice.
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 21, 2008 - 11:25am PT
Less Politics, more climbing history!

Stéphane is on a roll!

The original brochure for the camerocks:





And for the fun of it I scanned the ad in my Conway guidebook:




I also came across a Fish ad. Anyone know if there's a relation to the board favorite gear-maker?



And one more for Stéphane. I don't know if you collect ice gear, but This collection is largely unorganized:

The only one I know for sure is that Warthog second from the right. I have guesses one the rest, but it's up in the air. Got any clues?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 21, 2008 - 11:56am PT
I don't recall the names, but remember seeing all those ice screws out in the wild on folks racks at one point or another.

Jello...?
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 11:59am PT
into the "way back machine of my mind"

Snargs???
Tomcat

Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
Oct 21, 2008 - 12:02pm PT
The one on the right is a Lowe Snarg.Then the warthog.The black one dunno,but the clip in area looks a lot like some Salewa screws I have.The next is the Chouinard standard screw.The wire one might be a Simond,but not at all sure.
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 12:30pm PT
Thanks Tomcat. My mind is still intact!

(very pleased I never took a fall on one of those things, as I recall, they would only be a last resort placement)
nutstory

climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:13pm PT
I am sincerely sorry but I have very little knowledge about ice climbing equipment. My main field of research has always been artificial chockstones and I must confess that, believe it or not, I have never climbed ice faces. Nevertheless, I do have some treasures at home: among them, a Peck Terrordactyl (axe hammer) and old home made ice screws, made in Great Britain the early sixties…!

The blacksmith John Brailsford used the long bolts that hold the chairs to the sleepers of the railways to make his ice screws. He cut off the heads and made a special, thin, oval punch which he used to pierce the bolt. He then drilled the small hole until it would take a single karabiner. They were cadmium plated at Rolls Royce by his engineer friend and were highly successful, if a bit heavy. They were considerably stronger than Pete Crew’s screws which had a welded eye to take several karabiners.

The pic is coming soon… On the top, the ice screws made by John Brailsford (who created the first purpose designed nut) and, on the bottom, the ones made by Pete Crew.

Stéphane / Nuts Museum
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:27pm PT
On the ice gear above... not sure what the left end one is, but second from the left looks like a Coonyard ice screw, then an old US Army Ice Pition. The one on the right end is a Snarg (made by Lowe?).
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
Did it seem to take forever to place a Snarg?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:41pm PT
Basilisk,

> I also came across a Fish ad. Anyone know if there's a relation to the board favorite gear-maker?


Yes, Russ Walling = Fish.
http://fishproducts.com/
He has done some really cool ads over the years, and lots of really good gear as well. Plus he's a master of the too-true critique with great humor, climbing, and other stuff. Most of us would just like to be good at one of those things!
Ain't no flatlander

climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:46pm PT
"Did it seem to take forever to place a Snarg?"

Place? no. Remove? Yes. About the same as Warthogs but they held better (though I hear the latter is better in chalk).
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:03pm PT
That was my experience on the Snarg as well...not that bad to place, took a while to take out.
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:05pm PT
How were they placed? I assumed they went in and out as a screw.
It appears that the pitch of the threads would mean a lot more
turning of the screw than with a Salewa screw.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:13pm PT
The leftmost ice screw I believe is a Marwa "coathanger" type, an untrustworthy design which (unless I'm mixing up old stories) was implicated in the death of Dan Doody in Huntington Ravine.
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:15pm PT
The snarg was hammered in. Obviously not used on water ice.
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:17pm PT
Here's the pic Stephane promised, as well as his quoted post for ease of reading:

"The blacksmith John Brailsford used the long bolts that hold the chairs to the sleepers of the railways to make his ice screws. He cut off the heads and made a special, thin, oval punch which he used to pierce the bolt. He then drilled the small hole until it would take a single karabiner. They were cadmium plated at Rolls Royce by his engineer friend and were highly successful, if a bit heavy. They were considerably stronger than Pete Crew’s screws which had a welded eye to take several karabiners.

The pic is coming soon… On the top, the ice screws made by John Brailsford (who created the first purpose designed nut) and, on the bottom, the ones made by Pete Crew."



Those screws are pretty trippy. Looks like they're just lag bolts with a holes


Edit: This goes a little upstream, but if anyone has any Clog Cogs they'd be willing to sell, I've got a buddy looking to buy. Thanks!
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:30pm PT
damn, that top (blue colored) eye screw isn't even drop forged
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:39pm PT
Dig that photo above... I have one of those Terrordactyl knucklebuster axes and a couple of that general type of ice screw. Can't even imagine trusting one of those eyebolts with your life.
Russ S.

climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:59pm PT
Not to side track the thread, but help me with the climbing shoes in Basilisk's photos of gear spread on the red floor and in the display case.

Those were my first climbing shoes bought in San Diego in '78, which I've always remembered as labeled "RR's". This confused me because why use the same name as the earlier generation Blue/red RR's. When I had them resoled once, the guy in the shop insisted they were PA's. Clearly a strong resemblance to the bright green shoe, but I'm sure they were labeled RR's. What does the leather pack logo say on the side of the shoe?
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 21, 2008 - 03:10pm PT
I'm not sure myself, Russ. Here's a better shot to jog some memories:


Closeup:



Edit: Better closeup
duncan

Trad climber
London, UK
Oct 21, 2008 - 05:32pm PT
Basilisk, I'll have a look for Clog Cogs. I'm sure I have some somewhere. Alternatively, a post on a UK website might be productive.

Any ideas about this? It says BI-CAPS on it.



Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Oct 21, 2008 - 06:37pm PT
The left-hand ice screw of those posted by Stephane is almost certainly a Marwa "coat hanger". Some tests were done on them in the 1970s, which showed that they were virtually useless as anchors.

They weren't bad for opening wine bottles, though.
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Oct 21, 2008 - 07:22pm PT
Russ S

The two shoes were the same.
Galibier PAs (the red/black ones) had lost market share to EBs,
and they had stopped making the Robbins Boot.
The green PAs were stickier than the red/black ones, but most
people seemed to think they still didn't work as well as EBs.
Robbins and Galibier had connections at the time, RR had name
recognition, why not crank out two shoe models for the price
of one?
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 29, 2008 - 05:06pm PT
I miss this thread, so I'm bringing it back.

It's not exactly pro, but I'm curious if anyone can ID this shoe:



There are no visible markings on it, and it's built like a ton of bricks. Its stiffer than any shoe I've seen nowadays, I can barely put a bend in the sole. Definitely board lasted. Any clues?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 29, 2008 - 05:10pm PT
Basilisk,

That shoe is an EB, with blue leather added by the user.
aka EB Super Gratton, the shoe which ushered in the climbing of many 5.11s in Yosemite starting in 1971.
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 29, 2008 - 06:24pm PT
That would explain the less-than-phenomenal threadwork around the blue then. Was it common to add different colored leather to shoes?
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Oct 29, 2008 - 06:34pm PT
Yes, almost universal in some abrasive areas, like vedauwoo and josh.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 02:34pm PT
This thread is awesome. I am having a blast drooling over all of the antique pro. Speaking of which I've made a few additions to my collection recently, I'll try to post pictures this evening..
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 06:22pm PT


Clog nuts and hexes



Colorado Nut Company hexes, with a single clog hex that managed to sneak into the group



EB Super Grattons, mint in bag, they're even my size!



Forrest stuff. Unsure what each type of piece is called.



The absolute pride and joy of my active rack, my #3 and #4 Colorado Nut Company I-beam chocks. These things are absolutely magical. So much so I'm in the process of fabricating replacements so I can retire the antiques.



No clue on these guys, any ideas?


Likewise, no idea on this one. No markings on the piece.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v703/211/39/1055488021/n1055488021_195721_6958.jpg

Campbell saddlewedges




SMC hexes and camlocks



Forrest titons?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 24, 2008 - 06:27pm PT
knievel, could one or both of your "no clue" wired wedges be Forrest Foxheads?
He made something like that, a smaller MOAC shape built around a copperhead.
The single, flexible wire worked well in placements -- I thought they were great.
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Nov 24, 2008 - 08:30pm PT
I think the copperhead-inside-the-wedge is the Foxhead,
can't remember the name of the squashed copperheads.
FWIW, the only time I've seen a copperhead placed, it was used
as a nut.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 24, 2008 - 08:35pm PT
can't remember the name of the squashed copperheads.

This just came to me -- weren't they called "arrowheads"?
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 24, 2008 - 08:36pm PT
Yes - Arrowheads it is.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:20pm PT
From the Climber's Sourcebook, by Steven and Anne Schneider, 1976
Forrest Chocks









scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:26pm PT
Wouldn't that be Bob & Anne Schneider?
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:34pm PT
Not according to the cover of the book...more correctly, it should be "Steven" Schneider. Apparently of New Hampshire.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:38pm PT
Clog hexes...looks like a home swag job... check out the size of the cable in that big one (dime for scale).


Clog hex heads...


The whole assortment of Forrest stuff, plus one small Clog hex.


Closer shot of Arrowheads and Foxheads. Showroom fresh!


Arrowheads with Foxhead
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:47pm PT
FWIW, the only time I've seen a copperhead placed, it was used
as a nut.


I think that was their original purpose -- hammering copperheads in as bashies was a secondary development, though it quickly became their main use.

I carried a set of copperheads for a while just as nuts for free climbing protection -- they seemed to do the job.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:54pm PT
Check out this Troll nut... it's nearly just a cube shape. Barely any slope to the sides at all.



Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 24, 2008 - 10:40pm PT
Bill Forrest, as an accomplished clean aid climber, was the first to offer two cable lengths in his products knowing that three or four extra inches of height can sometimes make or break a reach problem and that the weight savings was also a consideration. He sure made some money on Copperheads until the cheapskates like me discovered the boating supply.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Nov 25, 2008 - 12:16am PT
A couple of posters have stated that MOACs came in only one size. I have two identical chocks, unstamped, whose top surface is 15/16" by 1&3/8". I believe these are the regular MOACs pictured in this thread. But I also have a chock that is clearly stamped "MOAC 4". The top surface on this one is 1.5" by 1&1/4".

I also have an eiger 7 and an eiger 10, which are early hexcentrics. Anybody know anything about these?
Blakey

Trad climber
Newcastle UK
Nov 25, 2008 - 03:59pm PT
Regarding the EBs, used and mint.

Towards the end of the 70s EBs went from being the shoe of choice, to somethingh no one would touch. The reason being that they went from a glued on separate sole and rand, to a completely moulded sole and rand unit. These were made of a harder rubber and were nowhere near as useable as their predesessors, which pretty much ruled the roost on both sides of the Atlantic.

This almighty c*#k up with the soles coincided with the arrival of several other shoes (like the early blue Asolos) which presaged in turn the arrival of Fires.

The EBs in the photo are 'late models' I think.

Best,

Steve
Chris2

Trad climber
Nov 25, 2008 - 04:03pm PT
The people I know that have those Colorado Nuts...loves them. Wish I had a metal shop!
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2008 - 05:07pm PT
I happen to have access to a metal shop and have found a source for 6061 T6 aluminum I-beam of the correct dimensions. Once I get the prototype replicas fabricated I'm sending them off to be pull tested. Assuming they perform as expected I'd be willing to make sets for folks.
Chris2

Trad climber
Nov 25, 2008 - 05:10pm PT
Cool...email me direct I will buy some!
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Nov 25, 2008 - 05:14pm PT
I'd buy some also!

Just another reason I love this thread. Thanks for sharing folks
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Nov 25, 2008 - 05:54pm PT
There's a market for I-Beams???
couchmaster

climber
Mar 3, 2009 - 11:56am PT
Gear bump for the gear whores. BTW, I have some EB'S I sewed leather onto which I'll try to get a pic on. The thin canvas usually got eaten through before the sole if you did any kind of sharp crack or offwidth jamming. They were very expensive shoes then, I think @ $30 a pair or so if memory serves me right.
anees

climber
Oct 30, 2010 - 09:03pm PT
Bump...

Does anyone recognize this nut?
Credit: anees

For more info and photos, plus bigger photo size, you can go to the original post over at MP (http://www.mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/can_anyone_id_this_old_mystery_nut/106943278#a_106943375)

This nut was dug out of the back of the Stanford Alpine Club's gear shed... is it some sorta neat old-school California original?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 30, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
Alex,

I agree - it looks homemade. Looks like milling marks on the largest face.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 31, 2010 - 01:46am PT
What does the top of the nut look like?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 31, 2010 - 02:46am PT
The images are on the MP link:
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 31, 2010 - 03:01am PT
Yup, homemade for sure!
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Dec 16, 2011 - 11:56am PT
This is a cool thread.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Feb 24, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
Out of the sad, and massive clean-up operation to dispose of Jenny Martin's piles-o-stuff in her garage:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2066314&tn=0&mr=0

Salvaged a handful of old gear. Evidently stored on one of the coasts for some time, much corroded, far too gone and decrepit for any climbing use, but a few interesting items:

Bedayn Biner. This one in good shape, 3 others badly corroded/tarnishe...
Bedayn Biner. This one in good shape, 3 others badly corroded/tarnished/pitted
Credit: crunch

Some old Chouinard "Regular" Hexentrics and a couple wired stoppers of about the same vintage.

And some alternative Hexagons/Regular Hexentrics. The larger, #6 Eigers are shaped, like the early Chouinard Hexentrics, to have a wider lower, bearing face, narrower upper, non-bearing face:

Eiger Hexagons
Eiger Hexagons
Credit: crunch

"6" on back and front, no manufacturer stamp, presumably Eiger????
"6" on back and front, no manufacturer stamp, presumably Eiger????
Credit: crunch

Colorado Nut Hexagon 1.5:

Colorado Nut Number 1 and a half
Colorado Nut Number 1 and a half
Credit: crunch

Colorado Nut One-and-One-Half. Love the oversize number-stamping and t...
Colorado Nut One-and-One-Half. Love the oversize number-stamping and the classic use of the fraction instead of the decimal.
Credit: crunch

As well as an SMC Hexagon, which, like the Colorado Nut Hex, is an exact hexagon in profile:

SMC Hexagon, unusual is that the bearing faces are not sized larger th...
SMC Hexagon, unusual is that the bearing faces are not sized larger than the non-bearing faces--a true haxagon shape
Credit: crunch

And a couple mystery nuts:

Here's a hexagon. A true hexagon, again. No markings except a lengthwise seam of some kind on one of the non-bearing faces:

Mystery hex nut.
Mystery hex nut.
Credit: crunch

Mystery hex
Mystery hex
Credit: crunch

And, maybe easier, an unmarked nut, possibly a baby Moac? (EDIT: It's a Gendarme! Thanks Steve Grossman).

nut
nut
Credit: crunch

nut
nut
Credit: crunch

nut
nut
Credit: crunch

The mystery gear might be Colorado Nut Co. related, since Jenny lived in the Chicken Coop for a while. A mystery why she would have these ancient relics, she'd have been a little kid when many of these were made. but, she sure seemed to not throw much away....

Maybe someone might even recognize these. Pale blue paint on some items. Also initials, maybe DCH, stamped on a nylon Foxhead?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 24, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
The last one is a Gendarme Nut.

The #6 is an Eiger for sure.
wivanoff

Trad climber
CT
Feb 24, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
Here's a hexagon. A true hexagon, again. No markings except a lengthwise seam of some kind on one of the non-bearing faces:

It's not a seam. It's an extrusion mark from an imperfection in the extruding die and doesn't affect anything. The nut was cut from hex stock, holes drilled, ends tapered.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Feb 24, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
Wow, Steve. An answer within, what, 3 minutes? Uncanny!

Never heard of Gendarme Nuts, but I have now. A quick search reveals they were made near Seneca Rocks, hence Gendarme name.

I'm seeing a parallel here with the early Chouinard pitons. As Chouinard modified and streamlined their early pitons manufacturing, other manufacturers were driven out of business (or just lost interest). Seems like a similar process with the early nuts. The larger sizes were easy enough to make and many folks tried their hand: Eiger, SMC, Colorado Nut Co.

But Chouinard's/Frost's development of "Regular Hexentrics" and then the even more sophisticated Poly-whatsit Hexentrics was enough to make much of the domestic competition gave up.

Cheers,
Crusher

EDIT: Thanks for the clarification, wivanoff!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 24, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
Plenty of information about Gendarme Nuts here...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1397992&tn=20

I have a full set to post up soon.

The market dominance of Chouinard Equipment definitely chased a lot of small shapers on to other things.

Tom and Yvon understood that a full range of sizes was just as valuable in a selection of nuts as it was with a rack of pitons. Why this idea didn't have traction in Britain is a mystery.

Most small businesses aren't willing to spring for the sort of big extrusions necessary to compete. Eiger was willing to have their own extrusions made to compete with Chouinard in the larger sizes.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Apr 18, 2013 - 03:36am PT
I acquired this little nut yesterday, and I would appreciate some help from you to identify it. It does not have any famous logo stamped on it. After cleaning it a little, it seems that I can see an “E” stamped on one face. As it does not seem to be “home made”, I am sure that someone here will be easily able to put a name to this “E Nut”. Marty, Steve…?

"E Nut"
"E Nut"
Credit: nutstory
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 20, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
Stephane- Did that come from a European source or North America?

If NA I would guess that it is an MSR wedge but I don't have one to confirm that. The maker had a power swager and did a neat job on the nut so I suspect that it was in production.

Anybody else have a clue?
tansofun

climber
Long Beach, CA
Apr 21, 2013 - 09:52am PT
Credit: tansofun
Anybody know what this is? Looks like a camming nut of some sort. No identifying marks, found it in a gear shop in Kathmandu. Sorry for the poor phone pic.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Apr 21, 2013 - 10:36am PT
Missed this the first around, but it's a fun thread. Read the link to the Needle Sports history of nuts linked on the first page and this caught my eye:

Let's come back to England where, in a small village in the Peak District, Mark Vallance, creator of Wild Country, improved considerably the most classic pyramidal nut. "Rare are the cracks showing the same profile as the nuts". Starting from this statement, in 1978, Mark Vallance thought of changing the two large flat sides to create the maximum possible point contact with the rock. Using some Forrest Foxheads as prototypes he tried a large number of combinations to obtain finally the first curved nut, marketed early in 1979 under the name of Rock. No matter what the angle formed by both sides of a crack, the Rocks have always a three-point contact instead of only two for the pyramidal nut. By coincidence, at about the same time, Geoff Birtles, the Editor of High Mountain Sports magazine, worked with Tom Proctor on a closely similar design. They offered Mark Vallance the name Rocks which was what their device was called.

A curved stopper was made by Richard Harrison and John Long in Richard’s basement in Upland, California sometime around 1974-1975. They took a file to a Chouinard number 7 stopper and gave it into a curved shape, and named it the “Banana Nut”. I was skeptical about it when they showed it to me, but found that it worked well.

Wild Country later patented the curved stopper and when Chouinard brought out its own version, Wild Country sued for patent infringement. Around 1983, Dick Leversee, who was working for Chouinard, called me to confirm the existence of the Banana Nut and I became a witness in the lawsuit.

I testified that the curved design was already in use by Richard, John and I , a fact that was legally significant and could have invalidated the patent under the doctrine called “prior art.”

Richard gave Chouinard’s lawyers the Banana Nut for use in the litigation, but he never got it back. I think the lawsuit was settled out of court, but I am not sure.

Around the same time, Richard and John also filed down a Chouinard Hexentric, giving it a curved side which allowed it to act like a cam.
tansofun

climber
Long Beach, CA
Apr 21, 2013 - 11:15am PT
Reply to my own question, it looks like a wire tri-cam.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 21, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
Wired variation on the theme of an Abalakov cam made from a pulley wheel and not likely a commercial release.

Ricky- Sounds like a colossal waste of money trying to enforce a patent on a nut shape like that but I guess they thought that they had something original.

More questions for Yvon once I get a chance to sit down with him. Tom was gone by then.
SavageMarmot

Trad climber
Nederland, CO
Apr 21, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
Credit: SavageMarmot
Chouinard Stopper:

What size is this? The cord holes are 9.3mm and it measures 21.3mm wide and 32.5mm long at the top. Pre 80's?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 21, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
You need to post a picture with a Stopper of known size nearby for comparison.

Several generations of flat-sided Chouinard Stoppers to consider before they switched to the curved shape.

Stoppers #1-#4 on an open wire and #5- #8 slung in the early seventies. 8 sizes.


Tom Frost photo of Yvon Chouinard wearing his wares.

Stoppers #1- #8 1/2 available on a wire and #4 -#8 1/2 available slung. 16 sizes.







Stoppers #1-#13 available wired some sizes slung. 13 sizes.





SM- Yours is a #7 from the 13 size range set. The last two shots are from the 1978 Great Pacific Ironworks catalog.
SavageMarmot

Trad climber
Nederland, CO
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
Credit: SavageMarmot
Here's a next gen #10 stopper for reference.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
#11 Stopper
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
It looks on closer inspection that you have a older style #7 with undersize cord. Perfect fingerlock size if you have big paws.
SavageMarmot

Trad climber
Nederland, CO
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
My gut says you nailed it. When were these made?

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 21, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
If it's a 1972 first gen stopper and is a #7 it will measure 3/4" by 1-1/4" long

A bit later the #11 is 7/8" which comes up closer to your dimension.

Is your dimension across the narrow aspect or the wide side?

Stopper dimensions were published measured on the narrower of the two widths in the 72 catalog.


couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 21, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
You guys are just saying it a a #7 Stopper cause that's what it says on it. LOL



At least that's what I see. ps, nice post Steve G!

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 21, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
OK you've forced me to go open the junk drawer and get the dial calipers out.

2 samples of #7s 0.84 and 0.85

So the catalog dimensions of 0.75 aren't correct.

Here's another mystery.

I have a #8 that's 1.18 and has the oval hollow extrusion.

This one isn't in the 72 catalog, but I'm sure it was purchased around then.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Apr 22, 2013 - 02:27am PT
Stephane- Did that come from a European source or North America?
Steve- I am sorry, I am not sure of the origin of this little nut. Maybe it was found somewhere in North America. It has a rather similar shape as an old Chouinard Stopper, but it is mounted on a thinner wire.

And... as you mention the Abalakov cam, I am very proud to show you the full set of Grivel Bikov. It took me a long long time to complete the set...
GRIVEL Bikov
GRIVEL Bikov
Credit: nutstory

Rick A- Thank you for sharing the fascinating story of the Banana Nut.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Apr 22, 2013 - 03:25am PT
I agree with TGT. The Chouinard stopper in question looks like a first generation #7. Of course, the numbering has changed over the years and I have no clue what it translates into today's versions.
tansofun

climber
Long Beach, CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 06:52am PT
Wired variation on the theme of an Abalakov cam made from a pulley wheel and not likely a commercial release.

Thanks Steve! Learning more about old gear every day.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
May 25, 2013 - 12:16am PT
Just for fun some Abalakov-style flywheel cams brought back from a Russian exchange expedition by Chuck Kroger and now in the YCA collection.





Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Jul 3, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
Tansofun (my friend) was over in Nepal and bought some souvenirs for us like the one he posted above.

My box of fun just arrived - only took 2 months to get here due a stop by Home Land Security. Here is one item. The Sherpa told him it was an old ice screw.....what do you think it was used for? - Maybe anchoring ladders?

Old homemade screw?  Auger?
Old homemade screw? Auger?
Credit: Roots

photo not found
Missing photo ID#309516

photo not found
Missing photo ID#309517
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jun 30, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
ok so the pictures I posted above didn't interest anyone LOL - it looks much nicer now all cleaned up, but how about this cam? What is known about them?

RADical dude!
RADical dude!
Credit: Roots

Wonder if the Koreans use the word "Rad" in their day to day lives..?
Wonder if the Koreans use the word "Rad" in their day to day lives..?
Credit: Roots
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 30, 2014 - 04:31pm PT
Abalakov (also from a set of 4) obtained during the same surreptitious negotiations as Kroger's.

Still in use...
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:29am PT
....made by Camp. Anyone know anything about them?

Unused
Unused
Credit: Roots
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:08am PT
....made by Camp. Anyone know anything about them?

They should have been made by 'Bunk'.
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jul 14, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
^LOL that do seem sketchy! I guess that's why these are unused?

Well just curious if anyone knows what they are called, circa?

Thanks!
ClimbingOn

Trad climber
NY
Sep 4, 2014 - 08:24pm PT
I recently got this gear sling with a lot of vintage gear I purchased. It looks homemade but the sewing looks professional. No identifying marks on it. Looks like a very early example of a multi-loop gear sling. I believe each "loop" was used for racking pitons. Anyone seen anything like this before?

Credit: ClimbingOn
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Sep 4, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
Credit: ß Î Ø T Ç H
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:11am PT
Climbing #101 April 1987
Climbing #101 April 1987
Credit: nutstory

Roots: your purple nuts are CAMP Pentanuts. They hit the market in 1985. Yours are a “second” generation. First generation doesn’t have lightening holes.
CAMP Pentanuts
CAMP Pentanuts
Credit: nutstory
OR

Trad climber
Sep 5, 2014 - 05:25am PT
I recently got this gear sling with a lot of vintage gear I purchased. It looks homemade but the sewing looks professional. No identifying marks on it. Looks like a very early example of a multi-loop gear sling. I believe each "loop" was used for racking pitons. Anyone seen anything like this before?

Looks like something Forrest would create.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 5, 2014 - 08:49am PT
(left to right) stampted "SMC #2"w/floating cable rolled pin, ...
(left to right) stampted "SMC #2"w/floating cable rolled pin, "the buddy" from Canada, ABC #4 Stone from UK, Forrest flat 2" webbing tie on swammy, Forrest harness with triangular buckles, vintage pins, DOLT stash pocket.
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Sep 5, 2014 - 09:29am PT
The SMC nut is a Quick-Taper Wedge.
The ABC Stone, (also called Gem or Gemstone) was made by Faces. Faces Designs on Mountains (Matlock) was the third British company (with Wild Country and HB Climbing Equipment) to produce cams in the nineties. Faces was jointly owned by Jim Ballard and his wife Alison Hargreaves, Ian Parsons and Ian Brown. Alison was a famous mountaineer. Her death on K2 and the Single European Market rules are probably the two main reasons why Faces went out of business.
At that time, they produced nuts and cams, as Gems, Pearls, Jewels, Tech Cads, Three Cam Cads, Four Cam Cads and Slugs
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Sep 5, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
Thank you!!
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Sep 6, 2014 - 12:10am PT
FortMentäl: I suspect that it might be CAMP as they marketed a rather similar cam in 1989, the Passe Par-Tout, also made in Korea.
CAMP Passe Par-Tout (1989)
CAMP Passe Par-Tout (1989)
Credit: nutstory
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Sep 11, 2014 - 11:54pm PT
The ABC Stone, (also called Gem or Gemstone) was made by Faces. Faces Designs on Mountains (Matlock) was the third British company (with Wild Country and HB Climbing Equipment) to produce cams in the nineties. Faces was jointly owned by Jim Ballard and his wife Alison Hargreaves, Ian Parsons and Ian Brown. Alison was a famous mountaineer. Her death on K2 and the Single European Market rules are probably the two main reasons why Faces went out of business.
At that time, they produced nuts and cams, as Gems, Pearls, Jewels, Tech Cads, Three Cam Cads, Four Cam Cads and Slugs…
Shortly after posting on here some details about the British company Faces Designs On Mountains I was contacted by Ian Parsons who pointed out that the actual order of events rather contradicted the idea that Alison Hargreaves' death had in any way contributed to the the company's demise; its climbing hardware production had largely ceased by the end of 1992, and Faces itself disbanded in early 1993, more than two years before Alison went to K2. He also suggested that they couldn't really blame the looming requirements - but also the opportunities - of the Single European Market; other climbing companies, notably DMM and Wild Country, took these in their stride and prospered.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:26am PT
Hey climbingon; I may know something about that gear sling.
Any chance any of that vintage gear had DWs stamped on it with a metal stamp?


And no, OR, it's not made by Forrest.
OR

Trad climber
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:34am PT
Sling is cool looking whomever made it …..thats for sure.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:35am PT
You should see the new version. OR
Credit: Cosmiccragsman
Credit: Cosmiccragsman


I'm still curious to know if any of that vintage gear climbingOn got
has DWs, metal stamped on it.

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 08:08am PT
That looped gear sling, ClimbingOn showed a pic of, was made in about 1985/1986.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 08:17am PT
Another thing I am curious about is how that looped gear sling made it back to NY.
Not many of them were ever made.
ClimbingOn

Trad climber
NY
Sep 12, 2014 - 08:58am PT
Cosmic, replied to your PM. If it was yours back in the day, or you made it, I'd be happy to mail it to you.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 09:26am PT
No it's ok Climbing on.
I'm just curious to know how the sling made it's way back to NY,
and if any of the vintage gear had D W stamped into the metal.
ClimbingOn

Trad climber
NY
Sep 12, 2014 - 09:30am PT
No DW initials stamped on any of it. So spill the beans - who made it?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 09:57am PT
I might start making them again once I make a deal with
someone to do the sewing in quantity, as I don't have a sewing machine anymore.
I Have a couple of small companies in mind that I am going to talk to.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 10:17am PT
BTW, This gear rack,

Credit: Cosmiccragsman

was not sewn by me. it was sewn by John Yates on special order,
working on the design I gave him.
I no longer had a good sewing machine
to make the rack, so I had John do it.


Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Sep 12, 2014 - 11:21am PT
Cosmic, racked up for Pine Line?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
^^^^^^^

No. That's the way my rack looks when I take it out of my pack.
I take off what I don't need for a climb and use what's left on the rack.

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Sep 12, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
Lol.. #3's and a 4 on pine line? Lol
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
My rack is ready for any climb except for maybe climbs at Indian Creek.
and my storage rack has all the multiple pieces I would need for IC
wgd

Mountain climber
vancouver
Oct 24, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
Wondering if someone can help me identify who manufactured these piton holders ... picture is from 1966/67 Ski Hut Catalog

Credit: wgd
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