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knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 1, 2008 - 03:40pm PT
I recently got my hands on a collection of old passive pro (peck crackers, clog nuts, etc) and included where some pieces that aren't stamped with size or manufacturer information. I'll try to post some pictures of the stuff I'm stumped on. I'd greatly appreciate any hard information, or even vague speculation, as to the manufacturer of aforementioned mystery pro.



Assorted mystery nuts. The hex on the left greatly resembles a Colorado Nut hex that I have but it isn't stamped. The nut on the far right looks more or less exactly like one of the CLOG nuts I've got, but again isn't stamped. As for the two large nuts in the middle, I have no idea.



Odd aluminum I-beam choks. I'd love to know if these things where commercially available at some point or if someone made these in the garage.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Feb 1, 2008 - 03:43pm PT
Look 'em up right here:

http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/nutsstory.htm
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 1, 2008 - 04:13pm PT
Colorado Nut Company (Bill Roos and Paul Sibley) made three sizes of I-beam nuts in the early 70s: 1.75", 3" and 4" as I recall (they were all about 2" placed sideways). Your I-beams look a lot like NutCo's, but I can't tell if they actually are.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
Thanks Clint, I've been hitting the nut museum website pretty hard recently trying to ID stuff. I haven't found anything that closely resembles the mystery gear though.

If those I-beam chocks turn out to be Colorado Nut gear that would be cool. Any ideas when these puppies might have been on the market?



Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 1, 2008 - 04:20pm PT
Here's a photo I posted earlier on the New Scanner -- Old Climbs thread, showing Steve Wunsch carrying 1.75" and 3" I-beams in 1971.

maldaly

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 1, 2008 - 04:23pm PT
That thing with a sling through it is Moac, one of the best nuts ever. I think it only came in one size. Tom Frost has used the basic profile of it in his Sentinel Nuts. http://frostworksclimbing.com/sentinel.html
Mal
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 1, 2008 - 04:25pm PT
knieveltech:
If those I-beam chocks turn out to be Colorado Nut gear that would be cool. Any ideas when these puppies might have been on the market?

My best guess would be 1970-72. Their nuts improved on the Clog and Peck nuts that were available at the time, but NutCo's heyday drew to a close as Chouinard's hexentrics and tube chocks came along -- the next good idea.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 04:30pm PT
Maldaly: thanks a ton, that's one off my list.

Chiloe: The I-beams in your picture look exactly like the chocks I have, I'd say you hit the nail on the head. Thanks!
Moof

Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
Feb 1, 2008 - 06:02pm PT
Only ever seen one other Colorado nut, and it is still in frequent active use the the owner. It's one of those magic pieces that just finds a home on every pitch, and works great for an impromptu hammer for stubborn, lesser, nuts.

Any interest in selling them?
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2008 - 06:45pm PT
Not really. I just finished re-slinging them and plan on taking them for a test drive tomorrow. Once I'm done putting together a rack of old pro I'm going to hunt down some tights. I'm bringin lycra back!
bachar

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Feb 1, 2008 - 06:52pm PT
Charlie Porter used to make some pretty nice nuts....

Anybody still have any of those?
scuffy b

climber
Stump with a backrest
Feb 1, 2008 - 07:14pm PT
I had one of his cam hexes, but it was part of the rack that got
boosted out of my car in 75.
It was heavy.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2008 - 09:48pm PT
So I took the I-beams out to the crag today. Finding a placement was a bit tricky but once I did I'm confident you'd have to tear down the crag to pull it out. Definitely keepers.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 2, 2008 - 10:07pm PT
My personal favorite home made was a nut fashioned by Marty Woerner that features the word ZONK stamped into the 1" aluminum hex stock.

Check out the Diamond C Ice Gear at Neptune's Thread for some funk!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Feb 2, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
"I'm bringin lycra back!"

armageddon isn't supposed to happen for a couple more years.

yep, definite sign of apocalypse, yep
MisterE

Social climber
My Inner Nut
Feb 3, 2008 - 11:00am PT
As long as you don't start wearing the "Old Mystery Lycra" ! :-O
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2008 - 08:55am PT
It looks like Moof's statement about I beams finding a placement on every pitch is spot on. They especially have a knack for fitting in funky crystal-lined cracks where nothing else on my rack wants to go.
thedogfather

climber
Midwest
Apr 18, 2008 - 09:05am PT
I remember carrying several of the blue CMI girders for Devils Tower decades ago. If you think hexes make a lot of noise on a rack, you should have heard those things.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 18, 2008 - 10:54am PT
Moof:
Only ever seen one other Colorado nut, and it is still in frequent active use the the owner. It's one of those magic pieces that just finds a home on every pitch, and works great for an impromptu hammer for stubborn, lesser, nuts.

kneiveltech:
It looks like Moof's statement about I beams finding a placement on every pitch is spot on. They especially have a knack for fitting in funky crystal-lined cracks where nothing else on my rack wants to go.


Recently discovered another old photo (1970) of Colorado NutCo founder Paul Sibley, climbing with his gear.

Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:02pm PT
Your first photos won't open here, for some reason. But since Malcolm nailed one piece as a MOAC, I gotta chime in.

I've had a MOAC on my rack since 1967. Quite simply the best piece ever. The rounded shape comes from being sandcast, which gives it a "human-feel" esthetic. Heard once what the word meant, but to me it's always stood for "Most Obvious Artificial Chockstone." I get a tad ritualistic about it, feeling like a climb isn't truly protected until I have begun placing it.

The MOAC was definitely our main model when Tom Frost and I designed Stoppers. And I find it very interesting that decades later when he came out with Sentinel Nuts -- and I won't leave the ground without a full set (see, the curves have gone too far. They cam in place nicely, but they get way too stuck) -- Frost returned to the steeper angles of the MOAC.

I once soloed halfway up the standard route on Pingora to retrieve the MOAC after a client couldn't get it out.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:16pm PT
Doug -- the MOAC used to be one of those place-on-just-about-every-pitch pieces of gear for me, when climbing Eldorado in the early 70s. Later, Bill Forest used the same taper in two sizes of Foxheads, one of them blue plastic. Those became favorite pieces as well.


Here's a blowup of the NutCo I-beam on Sibley's rack, from my photo upthread.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:18pm PT
Does MOAC stand for something? Don't think I ever knew the answer.
scuffy b

climber
up the coast from Woodson
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:42pm PT
Funny thing about the MOAC.
After I started using Stoppers, I didn't like
the shape of the MOAC so much, and filed it
down so it had the Stopper angles.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2008 - 12:47pm PT
DR: Your first photos won't open here, for some reason.

Yeah, my web server is temporarily offline. The pics will come back once I reboot it, maybe later today. As far as the MOAC goes, I've reslung it and have been contemplating adding it to my rack, I'm not sure how well it'll function in quartzite/meta-sandstone/quartz conglomerate though.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:51pm PT
MOAC does stand for or mean something. I made a point of asking when I was in Sheffield. Now I've forgotten. May have it written in a notebook somewhere...

Funny about the Stopper taper. While I insist on carrying the MOAC and the Frost Sentinels, I also mix in a few of the classic Stoppers. Seems a useful assortment. Or maybe just an old crusty overdoin' the CYA...

I also had a few of those I-Beam things for awhile. Monsterously heavy, tho, so I quit carrying them.

And Foxheads: could never get my sense of security around a slipppery plastic nut.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:57pm PT
The MOAC worked for me in every rock I've tried -- most, by now.

I sling it and all my bigger pieces with 9 mm dynamic rope. Not accessory cord, but pieces of old lead rope. I figure it works like a minor version of a screamer, lowering the peak impact force a bit on my top piece. Thus I hope it nudges my system toward not breaking the piece or the rock it's placed in.
rockanice

climber
new york
Apr 18, 2008 - 03:23pm PT


Preparing to climb Little Fingers on Roger's Slide (Rock) on Lake George July 1973. This photo was a copycat of The Robbin's photos with his gear neatly laid out on a picnic table before the Nose and Salathe.
My second season, I'm in the middle.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Apr 18, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
Looks like the "A" team.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
Apr 18, 2008 - 03:56pm PT
Far as I could tell, even the Nut Museum doesn't have a set of these:



Leeper Z Nutz.

Ha. I should sling those babys up and take 'em climbing. They ring nicely as they dangle together.
Ed Bannister

Mountain climber
Riverside, CA
Apr 18, 2008 - 07:48pm PT
Hi Kris!

Leeper Zs also on another thread today, I have a set somewhere too.

As for MOAC, were they English??

I have a wired MOAC that is a solid round tube, never seen one of those since, and the nuts I never used as the taper was so fast that they were hard to seat... ie i would rather fix a piece than have it fall out.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 18, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
MOAC = "MOuntain ACtivities"

from

http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/nutsstory.htm

"Ellis Brigham, owner of a chain of outdoor shops in UK who sponsored the die cast first production run, also owned a climbing equipment import company, Mountain Activities. Therefore the name MOAC was chosen for
this nut, that many British and American climbers still carry them for sentimental reasons."


MOAC on left, acorn on right
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 19, 2008 - 01:14am PT
John,

I've only seen Charlie's double slider nuts and bashies, would love to other gear he made if anyone has some of it.





Ksolem, you'll be making Stephane drool over that collection of the little AntiZtons - very nice. I think he only has a couple.

And Clint, sometimes I get the impression that of all the gear in the Nut Museum that the MOACs are what Stephane treasures most of all.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 19, 2008 - 08:01am PT
Clint, you've cleared up that ancient MOAC mystery in my mind.

Some day I should dig out that box of old hardware in my attic, and see if there's anything worth photographing.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 19, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
Start digging - inquiring minds want to know...
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 19, 2008 - 08:00pm PT
Now that I see the opening photo (thanks!) that MOAC is way different from mine. On mine every edge is rounded at about 1/4" radius. Likewise the top of the nut is milled away between the two holes so that the rope sits partway down, recessed into the head. The look of it is strikingly different, feeling like it was shaped by hand rather than sawed off of bar stock like that MOAC in the photo, all Stoppers, etc.

The article Clint referenced says the first model was carved out of balsa wood. So if that balsa MOAC was pressed into wet sand and aluminum was poured in, you'd get the nut I have.

Clint, thanks for that article!

Very lively and knowledgable. I learned a lot. Climbed on pretty much every one of the Clogs and Pecks in the late 60s and early 70s. I still have one knurled Peck here.

And my prize piece of hardware: a nut from the Snowdon Railway.
Dennis Hennek gave it to me after picking it up from the tracks.
It's hanging on a piece of hemp sling, over the fireplace.

Note to self: buy digital camera. I would love to share photos of this stuff with you guys.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 20, 2008 - 12:13pm PT
Here are some Clog I-beams along with other early nuts bought in the early 70's.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 21, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
healyje:
Start digging - inquiring minds want to know...

One or two oddities lurked at the bottom of that box in my attic. Here's one I'd forgotten
about: the first "screamer"? This was a Bill Forrest design, early 70s. As I recall Bill's
story, he put a lot of development effort into this idea. I haven't taken it apart, but
my recollection is that the principle was more complicated than just ripping stitches.

Anybody else use these things, or test them out?

Double D

climber
Apr 21, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
Bump for way cool thread. Anyone have pictures of the machine nuts with a sling n knot through them that the Brits used to use in the early 70's?

I remember making my first "Porter Cam" with a grinder and a block of aluminum. It was sorta like a hexicentric but the smaller side was rounded and cammed.

Forrest screamer???...Never even knew!
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 21, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
I need to take a pic, but I was wordering if anyone knows about a chock that was stamped ec. I found it at the top the Black Wall at Donner, probably 20 years ago. It was a straight tapered aluminum stopper with a swaged cable loop.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 21, 2008 - 04:27pm PT
Double D:
Forrest screamer???...Never even knew!

Must have been an idea ahead of its time. I don't remember hearing much about Forrest's
version, unlike the later idea of screamers.

Also pre-screamers, I once dropped by John Bouchard's place in North Conway when he was
testing a new shock-absorbing device, using a tree and cement bucket as his setup. The
shock-absorber was judged successful when he could catch a 20-foot drop of the cement
bucket with a runner made of shoelace.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 21, 2008 - 04:32pm PT
I didn't have the concept of saving things that might become museum pieces, BITD, so this
lovely Dolt piton got used on a number of A4s. The steel seemed to be tougher than
Chouinard's chrome moly.



Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 21, 2008 - 06:46pm PT
There was such a thing as a Holubar piton, at least that's what it says on the top
piece here. The other two say Stubai. I'm not sure what these were designed for, but
I used to think they might work as soft-rock bolts. Apparently I never tried out that theory.



Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 21, 2008 - 10:34pm PT
The Fall Arrestor was a Bill Forrest original I am pretty sure. Kevlar back strap and lots of strands of some miracle elastomeric compound. Way overdesigned compared to the sewn technology in the Yates' versions.

I had my one and only test ride during the FA of the Central Scrutinizer. I had exited Tribal Rite and set up a super exposed bolt belay on the very prow of the Nose. Above curved a thin expanding flake for about thirty feet and then a little, swirled crease coughed up a #3 and #4 RP which I set up. Forrest first, Yates Screamer beneath, and bravely worked my way up a series of overlaps culminating in an American Tourister with a long medium Bug neatly driven behind it! Jay Ladin craned his neck and was none too happy to track the dislodged scraps of rock within reach down in the sandchair.
I got into second steps and my entire vacation plans changed to air travel as the suitcase spit me out. I crossed my arms and went into a very slow roll as it all compressed and remember hearing the horrid ripping sound and feeling the rope quiver under load while upside down. Suddenly it all settled down and I righted myself and looked right across at Jay. "Whoa dude! Are you all right?" Yup, I'm okay. "Steve, I think I might be getting a bit old for this sort of thing!"
I looked back up to the awesome Aussie nuggets and fireworks shock absorbers that had stopped my big screamer at fifty rather than over one hundred and factor 2-!
I felt a bit old myself but this was a good route and the same Bug got an extra dose and didn't fail this time long enough to get a decent placement around the top latch and move by. The tattered and tweezed fall arrestors saved my bacon!
Ed Bannister

Mountain climber
Riverside, CA
Apr 21, 2008 - 10:55pm PT
Forrest actually did do screamers. and Bill did put a lot of effort into making them smooth in the process of absorbing energy, many falls duplicated on his tower built for that purpose.

It consisted of three different lengths of web made out a fiber that stretched one time only, backed up by nylon....

But, Chiloe..

the pic of the screamer you supplied above, probably is not a Forrest.
I think you might want to double check,
peel back the Lycra cover and you will find a YATES tag where the webbing is sewn to itself. Yates sewed the clippable loop to hold it open along the axis of the web, so I am pretty confident this is a yates screamer

This is a rip the stitches out design, very dependable to absorb energy, but not real smooth either.

OK maybe this is a little too much gear info.
Ed


Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 22, 2008 - 09:19am PT
But, Chiloe..

the pic of the screamer you supplied above, probably is not a Forrest.
I think you might want to double check, peel back the Lycra cover and you will find a
YATES tag where the webbing is sewn to itself. Yates sewed the clippable loop to hold it
open along the axis of the web, so I am pretty confident this is a yates screamer


I double checked, and Alpspitz is dead right. That is a photo of a Yates device. Sorry folks!
Bill Forrest described his new invention to me back in the 70s, I remember that part well.
Then finding the mystery pro in my attic the other day, I mistakenly guessed that's
what it was.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 22, 2008 - 09:23am PT
But here's an ID I'm more sure of, one of the original rounded-off MOACs that DR mentions upthread.
Based on a balsa wood prototype, you say? I guess that could explain the smoothed, almost organic shape.

nutstory

climber
Apr 25, 2008 - 02:49am PT
Bonjour,

Steve Grossman, these I-beams were not made by Clog but by Parba. In 1968 Paul Seddon produced what were probably the first nuts for wide cracks, the Big-H, which were cut from an H-section extrusion. In 1970, Paul Seddon teamed up with Tony Howard and Alan Waterhouse at Troll. That is the reason why one can find Big-H stamped either Parba or Troll. It would be very interesting to know which name is stamped on your one-hole Wedges… Parba or Troll…? Parba would probably drive me crazy…

Stephane / Nuts Museum

Ghoulwe

Trad climber
Spokane, WA
Apr 25, 2008 - 07:34am PT
Chiloe:

If that is a Forrest product, I'm guessing it is an early proto of the Fall Arrest. Bill took a bunch of time (and money) developing it, I believe with Rose Manufacturing in Denver. He released it in the early '80's but it wasn't very well recieved - too much money for a one-time use product.

Under the sheath it had a program-stitched stretchy material that absorbed impact. I had the pleasure of testing them with him one day prior to the product release at Castle Rock in Boulder canyon. It was kinda' like falling on a bungee cord. Still got a couple of them in my home collection.

Eric
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 25, 2008 - 10:48am PT
Ghoulwe, thanks, I recall some of that story from conversations with Forrest. Unfortunately, as
Alpspitz noticed upthread, I mis-identified a Yates device as being the Forrest piece in question.

Does anybody have a photo of a real Forrest Fall Arrest?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 25, 2008 - 10:50am PT
No mystery about this venerable old pro.

steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 25, 2008 - 11:22am PT
Just a teaser for ya... don't get your hopes up.
They're not going anywhere.


Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 25, 2008 - 12:33pm PT
Quite a collection, Greg. They don't look very used!

I wish I'd kept all my old stuff, who knew?

Anyway, here's Colorado NutCo's version of I-beam. about 3" x 2".

steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Apr 25, 2008 - 12:40pm PT
Thanks Larry - they are pretty much scratch free. Actually was sort of surprised to find that MOAC in that pile. I'd forgotten it was in there.

Figure Stephane is over having an anuerism about now. :-)
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 27, 2008 - 01:42pm PT
Well here's one from the vault for ID The middle nut has no stamp but by the cable girth and rounded corners I bet its the smallest Moac of them all. Stephane?!?






Shown with a #6 aid shorty and #6 1/2 standard Stopper for shape comparison.

So right about the Troll/Parba on the I-beams. Any other nuts released under the name of Parba? The one holers are all Clog stamped.
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Apr 27, 2008 - 02:09pm PT
Prompted by this thread I just dug up my old Forrest catalog. It has a great treatise on nutwork and many illustrations of unique Titon placements.

Unfortunately, it is of 70's vintage so predates the Fall Arrest, as I believe they were called, so no photos.

Looking at it makes me wonder why it is not attained classic status like the 72 Chouinard catalog. I learned a lot from it as a kid. Somehow Bill just never had the cachet that the California boys had.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 27, 2008 - 02:28pm PT
BITD, Bill told a story about how he tested the Forrest wall hammer, which was the first of
its kind with a fiberglass handle (the middle one in this photo from Cascadeclimbers).



Wanting to be sure that the new hammer was durable, and also to reassure skeptical climbers, Bill
said that he chained a prototype (through its carabiner hole) to a post in his yard, then offered
the neighborhood kids -- he suggested it was a tough neighborhood -- $10 or something if they
could break the hammer simply by swinging it hard against the chain.

The only requirement was they had to keep count of how many swings each kid made, and log
those in a notebook so Bill would know how long it took to break. At the time of this story he
said the kids were working hard, 10,000 swings so far, but the hammer still hadn't broken.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 27, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
Steve, that middle nut of yours does look like the small wired MOAC. My partner used to carry
one of those things everywhere.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 27, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
I could never understand the limited size offerings early on from overseas. Gotta love that fat cable even though it put a lot of torque on the placements. I found my trusty Fall Arrestor, blown and resewn. The aidscreamers are my choice for clipping crap these days and much lighter!



TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Apr 27, 2008 - 04:35pm PT
Chiloe:

The last pic you posted (of the three hammers)...
The top one (the alpine hammer) has a sticker with the word 'Mjolnir'

You got me currious and I had to go look at mine.
The sticker is there but all the print is worn off.




Was not 'Mjolnir' the name of a European gear manufacturer as well ?

I was wondering:
Did Forrest work with other (larger) manufacturers in much the same way as Chouinard/InterAlp?
Raydog

Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
Apr 27, 2008 - 06:14pm PT
RE:
"I was wondering:
Did Forrest work with other (larger) manufacturers in much the same way as Chouinard/InterAlp?"

an interesting question...
wish I knew more about the (Bill) Forrest gear legacy
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 27, 2008 - 06:19pm PT
Mjolnir (also spelled Mjollnir) was the name of an enchanted hammer belonging to Thor,
the Norse thunder god. I secretly wondered whether Forrest thought of that name due to
its resurrection in the Marvel comic books. Naw, couldn't be.

Forrest's polygonal Mjollnir looked vaguely like the Marvel version, IMHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics);

And neither looks much like the historical representations of Mjolnir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mjolnir
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Aug 2, 2008 - 01:50am PT
How did I miss this thread?

A bit of an old thread but one worth bumping to the top of the heap from time to time.

So, here ya go. Here's some stuff I've accumulated over the years from various sources. See if you can identify it. Some easy, some not so much.


First up, a mistery nut I have.
No visable markings on the nut. I thought It might be an old Chounard, but doesn't match any of my other old Chounard nuts.






Another mystery nut. This one looks to be pretty modern.






Some interesting cams made by Edelrid.


Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 2, 2008 - 01:58am PT
First nut (wedge) may be a MOAC. Pre-stoppers.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Aug 2, 2008 - 11:51am PT
Here's a "D" biner I bootied on a "not so well traveled" route in the Valley. Looked to have been there a while.

Next to a modern oval for size referance.
It's one of the biggest aluminum crabs I've seen.




Two old style Chouinard biners, just for fun.

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Aug 2, 2008 - 01:27pm PT
Salamanizer,

The first nut is a MOAC. They only came in one size.

Ken
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 16, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
I had the honor of sorting through a big box of old climbing gear for my boss last summer. I started by just emptying the box and spreading it out, then taking a picture. Unfortunately this is the only one I have of most of the gear.
What I'm most curious about is the nuts in the bottom leftish of the picture they look like they're used in a similar way to a hex. It's like a normal nut with two nubs from each side. The nubs run the length of the nut, but it you were to hold the but in front of you, the nubs are offset vertically

Also of interest are the biners in the bottom right, to the left of the nuts. The biners have a bar that crosses their axis, and spins freely. When I asked about it I was told that they're for making a carabiner brake, but I could never ID who made them.



For the fun of it, you're more than welcome to try you hand at IDing anything else in the picture. I have closer pics of some things, so feel free to ask. Thanks go out to the nut museum, without them I never would have been able to identify as much as I did
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Oct 17, 2008 - 12:33am PT
Those hexes are made by Clog I believe. I have a couple that are identical accept slung with cord. Early to mid 70's I believe. Not certain.

What the hell is that aluminum nut looking thing just above them?
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Oct 17, 2008 - 12:38am PT
If we're looking at the same thing it is a Forrest PinBin? I think thats the right name.

edit: I don't think I'm looking at the same item!
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Oct 17, 2008 - 12:42am PT
Not the pin bin, (though I was wondering about that too) the thingy just to the right. Looks like a square with some grooves and a hole in the top.
nutstory

climber
Oct 17, 2008 - 03:19am PT
Bonjour Basilisk & Salamanizer!

The nuts on the bottom left are Clog Cogs! The one alone just above them is also a Clog Cog, but it is pictured upside-down. These nuts hit the market in 1976 and had to be the serious British competitor for the Chouinard Hexentrics. In fact, unfortunately for Clog, they never became popular. The original sets consisted of the sizes 1 to 10. The sizes 1 to 5 were available either on wire or on rope; the sizes 6 to 10 were only available on rope. These five bigger sizes were too much heavy so, in a second generation (the ones on your photo), these sizes were made shorter, with two holes on the top, and just one hole on the bottom. The early longer sizes are rare…

If I had understood how to post a photo on this forum, I would have showed you a couple of good pics of these nuts…

The three blue hexes on the bottom are C.M.I. Hexachoks (no “c” before the “k”), made circa 1976.

Stephane / Nuts Museum
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 17, 2008 - 11:29am PT
Hi Stephane, thanks a bunch for your email. Here's a copy of the pic you set me



The hexachoks are interesting too- I could never find any info on those. Never suspected they were that old. Are they the first anodized chock?
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 17, 2008 - 11:52am PT
Damn, those chocks don’t look used at all.

The Colorado nut is an awesome piece of gear. (this may have already been stated, didn’t read each post) However…

The “fins” will snap right off, if the nut is placed incorrectly.
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Oct 17, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
Not the first anodized chock, but maybe the first good anodized chock.
Dolt was anodizing chocks much earlier than this, spidernuts, trunuts, etc.
Most of his stuff didn't have a great shape.
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 18, 2008 - 11:33pm PT
More goodies from Stéphane!



* Clog Cogs 2: The first advertisement for the Clog Cogs, published in Climber and Rambler in August 1976.



* CMI Hexachoks 1: CMI Hexachoks and Wired Hexachoks. The 2 wedges are prototype Wallnuts designed by CMI for Royal Robbins

Stéphane, any idea what's going on with that up-ended hexachok on the left? It looks like it's only been hollowed out halfway. Just a different design they were playing with?

On the Cog photo it mentions stacking, something I hadn't even thought of when I played with them. It sort of an early Bluewater CocoNut in that respect. Stacking nuts has really fallen off these days.



I gotta say, I am supremely jealous of all this info! Keep it coming please!
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 20, 2008 - 12:32pm PT
MORE!

"It is a real pleasure to “drive anybody mad” with all the info I can supply… so enjoy again!


The attached pic should answer your question about the CMI Hexachok. In fact all the Hexachoks were manufactured with a 1/8” web in the center. This page is an extract from the CMI catalog 1975!

If I am not mistaken, the Bluewater Coconuts were in fact made by the French company Simond in 1996 and known here as Camerocks. These nuts were never really popular in France. An earlier version of these nuts is the Simond Bicams (attached pic), made in 1986. The nuts with the red plastic sleeve can be stacked together, but not with the nuts with the blue plastic sleeve, and vice versa;

Stéphane"






It's pretty interesting that "I-beam technology" was being implemented even back then. I thought that was just a recent thing, thus why DMM obsesses over it so much

I was just thinking it strange that the concave side of the nuts was on the outside, but I just noticed the coconuts did the same. In fact I can't think of any other way to do it aside from the modern concave/convex nuts.

The Coconuts/camrocks were never popular in the states either. Regardless, I was thrilled to come across an ad for them in an old guidebook to North Conway. I was even more thrilled when I found the units themselves last summer
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 20, 2008 - 12:39pm PT
Salamanizer (a few post back), they sure look a lot like

Supernuts.

"The nut, that always get stuck!"

(because the bottom is rounded, there is no way to "hammer" at it, with your nut tool)

Basilisk...interesting drawings. Very nice.
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 21, 2008 - 11:25am PT
Less Politics, more climbing history!

Stéphane is on a roll!

The original brochure for the camerocks:





And for the fun of it I scanned the ad in my Conway guidebook:




I also came across a Fish ad. Anyone know if there's a relation to the board favorite gear-maker?



And one more for Stéphane. I don't know if you collect ice gear, but This collection is largely unorganized:

The only one I know for sure is that Warthog second from the right. I have guesses one the rest, but it's up in the air. Got any clues?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 21, 2008 - 11:56am PT
I don't recall the names, but remember seeing all those ice screws out in the wild on folks racks at one point or another.

Jello...?
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 11:59am PT
into the "way back machine of my mind"

Snargs???
Tomcat

Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
Oct 21, 2008 - 12:02pm PT
The one on the right is a Lowe Snarg.Then the warthog.The black one dunno,but the clip in area looks a lot like some Salewa screws I have.The next is the Chouinard standard screw.The wire one might be a Simond,but not at all sure.
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 12:30pm PT
Thanks Tomcat. My mind is still intact!

(very pleased I never took a fall on one of those things, as I recall, they would only be a last resort placement)
nutstory

climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:13pm PT
I am sincerely sorry but I have very little knowledge about ice climbing equipment. My main field of research has always been artificial chockstones and I must confess that, believe it or not, I have never climbed ice faces. Nevertheless, I do have some treasures at home: among them, a Peck Terrordactyl (axe hammer) and old home made ice screws, made in Great Britain the early sixties…!

The blacksmith John Brailsford used the long bolts that hold the chairs to the sleepers of the railways to make his ice screws. He cut off the heads and made a special, thin, oval punch which he used to pierce the bolt. He then drilled the small hole until it would take a single karabiner. They were cadmium plated at Rolls Royce by his engineer friend and were highly successful, if a bit heavy. They were considerably stronger than Pete Crew’s screws which had a welded eye to take several karabiners.

The pic is coming soon… On the top, the ice screws made by John Brailsford (who created the first purpose designed nut) and, on the bottom, the ones made by Pete Crew.

Stéphane / Nuts Museum
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:27pm PT
On the ice gear above... not sure what the left end one is, but second from the left looks like a Coonyard ice screw, then an old US Army Ice Pition. The one on the right end is a Snarg (made by Lowe?).
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
Did it seem to take forever to place a Snarg?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:41pm PT
Basilisk,

> I also came across a Fish ad. Anyone know if there's a relation to the board favorite gear-maker?


Yes, Russ Walling = Fish.
http://fishproducts.com/
He has done some really cool ads over the years, and lots of really good gear as well. Plus he's a master of the too-true critique with great humor, climbing, and other stuff. Most of us would just like to be good at one of those things!
Ain't no flatlander

climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 01:46pm PT
"Did it seem to take forever to place a Snarg?"

Place? no. Remove? Yes. About the same as Warthogs but they held better (though I hear the latter is better in chalk).
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:03pm PT
That was my experience on the Snarg as well...not that bad to place, took a while to take out.
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:05pm PT
How were they placed? I assumed they went in and out as a screw.
It appears that the pitch of the threads would mean a lot more
turning of the screw than with a Salewa screw.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:13pm PT
The leftmost ice screw I believe is a Marwa "coathanger" type, an untrustworthy design which (unless I'm mixing up old stories) was implicated in the death of Dan Doody in Huntington Ravine.
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:15pm PT
The snarg was hammered in. Obviously not used on water ice.
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:17pm PT
Here's the pic Stephane promised, as well as his quoted post for ease of reading:

"The blacksmith John Brailsford used the long bolts that hold the chairs to the sleepers of the railways to make his ice screws. He cut off the heads and made a special, thin, oval punch which he used to pierce the bolt. He then drilled the small hole until it would take a single karabiner. They were cadmium plated at Rolls Royce by his engineer friend and were highly successful, if a bit heavy. They were considerably stronger than Pete Crew’s screws which had a welded eye to take several karabiners.

The pic is coming soon… On the top, the ice screws made by John Brailsford (who created the first purpose designed nut) and, on the bottom, the ones made by Pete Crew."



Those screws are pretty trippy. Looks like they're just lag bolts with a holes


Edit: This goes a little upstream, but if anyone has any Clog Cogs they'd be willing to sell, I've got a buddy looking to buy. Thanks!
Chris2

Trad climber
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:30pm PT
damn, that top (blue colored) eye screw isn't even drop forged
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:39pm PT
Dig that photo above... I have one of those Terrordactyl knucklebuster axes and a couple of that general type of ice screw. Can't even imagine trusting one of those eyebolts with your life.
Russ S.

climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 21, 2008 - 02:59pm PT
Not to side track the thread, but help me with the climbing shoes in Basilisk's photos of gear spread on the red floor and in the display case.

Those were my first climbing shoes bought in San Diego in '78, which I've always remembered as labeled "RR's". This confused me because why use the same name as the earlier generation Blue/red RR's. When I had them resoled once, the guy in the shop insisted they were PA's. Clearly a strong resemblance to the bright green shoe, but I'm sure they were labeled RR's. What does the leather pack logo say on the side of the shoe?
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 21, 2008 - 03:10pm PT
I'm not sure myself, Russ. Here's a better shot to jog some memories:


Closeup:



Edit: Better closeup
duncan

Trad climber
London, UK
Oct 21, 2008 - 05:32pm PT
Basilisk, I'll have a look for Clog Cogs. I'm sure I have some somewhere. Alternatively, a post on a UK website might be productive.

Any ideas about this? It says BI-CAPS on it.



Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Oct 21, 2008 - 06:37pm PT
The left-hand ice screw of those posted by Stephane is almost certainly a Marwa "coat hanger". Some tests were done on them in the 1970s, which showed that they were virtually useless as anchors.

They weren't bad for opening wine bottles, though.
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Oct 21, 2008 - 07:22pm PT
Russ S

The two shoes were the same.
Galibier PAs (the red/black ones) had lost market share to EBs,
and they had stopped making the Robbins Boot.
The green PAs were stickier than the red/black ones, but most
people seemed to think they still didn't work as well as EBs.
Robbins and Galibier had connections at the time, RR had name
recognition, why not crank out two shoe models for the price
of one?
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 29, 2008 - 05:06pm PT
I miss this thread, so I'm bringing it back.

It's not exactly pro, but I'm curious if anyone can ID this shoe:



There are no visible markings on it, and it's built like a ton of bricks. Its stiffer than any shoe I've seen nowadays, I can barely put a bend in the sole. Definitely board lasted. Any clues?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 29, 2008 - 05:10pm PT
Basilisk,

That shoe is an EB, with blue leather added by the user.
aka EB Super Gratton, the shoe which ushered in the climbing of many 5.11s in Yosemite starting in 1971.
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Oct 29, 2008 - 06:24pm PT
That would explain the less-than-phenomenal threadwork around the blue then. Was it common to add different colored leather to shoes?
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Oct 29, 2008 - 06:34pm PT
Yes, almost universal in some abrasive areas, like vedauwoo and josh.
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 02:34pm PT
This thread is awesome. I am having a blast drooling over all of the antique pro. Speaking of which I've made a few additions to my collection recently, I'll try to post pictures this evening..
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 06:22pm PT


Clog nuts and hexes



Colorado Nut Company hexes, with a single clog hex that managed to sneak into the group



EB Super Grattons, mint in bag, they're even my size!



Forrest stuff. Unsure what each type of piece is called.



The absolute pride and joy of my active rack, my #3 and #4 Colorado Nut Company I-beam chocks. These things are absolutely magical. So much so I'm in the process of fabricating replacements so I can retire the antiques.



No clue on these guys, any ideas?


Likewise, no idea on this one. No markings on the piece.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v703/211/39/1055488021/n1055488021_195721_6958.jpg

Campbell saddlewedges




SMC hexes and camlocks



Forrest titons?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 24, 2008 - 06:27pm PT
knievel, could one or both of your "no clue" wired wedges be Forrest Foxheads?
He made something like that, a smaller MOAC shape built around a copperhead.
The single, flexible wire worked well in placements -- I thought they were great.
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Nov 24, 2008 - 08:30pm PT
I think the copperhead-inside-the-wedge is the Foxhead,
can't remember the name of the squashed copperheads.
FWIW, the only time I've seen a copperhead placed, it was used
as a nut.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 24, 2008 - 08:35pm PT
can't remember the name of the squashed copperheads.

This just came to me -- weren't they called "arrowheads"?
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 24, 2008 - 08:36pm PT
Yes - Arrowheads it is.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:20pm PT
From the Climber's Sourcebook, by Steven and Anne Schneider, 1976
Forrest Chocks









scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:26pm PT
Wouldn't that be Bob & Anne Schneider?
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:34pm PT
Not according to the cover of the book...more correctly, it should be "Steven" Schneider. Apparently of New Hampshire.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:38pm PT
Clog hexes...looks like a home swag job... check out the size of the cable in that big one (dime for scale).


Clog hex heads...


The whole assortment of Forrest stuff, plus one small Clog hex.


Closer shot of Arrowheads and Foxheads. Showroom fresh!


Arrowheads with Foxhead
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:47pm PT
FWIW, the only time I've seen a copperhead placed, it was used
as a nut.


I think that was their original purpose -- hammering copperheads in as bashies was a secondary development, though it quickly became their main use.

I carried a set of copperheads for a while just as nuts for free climbing protection -- they seemed to do the job.
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Nov 24, 2008 - 09:54pm PT
Check out this Troll nut... it's nearly just a cube shape. Barely any slope to the sides at all.



Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 24, 2008 - 10:40pm PT
Bill Forrest, as an accomplished clean aid climber, was the first to offer two cable lengths in his products knowing that three or four extra inches of height can sometimes make or break a reach problem and that the weight savings was also a consideration. He sure made some money on Copperheads until the cheapskates like me discovered the boating supply.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Nov 25, 2008 - 12:16am PT
A couple of posters have stated that MOACs came in only one size. I have two identical chocks, unstamped, whose top surface is 15/16" by 1&3/8". I believe these are the regular MOACs pictured in this thread. But I also have a chock that is clearly stamped "MOAC 4". The top surface on this one is 1.5" by 1&1/4".

I also have an eiger 7 and an eiger 10, which are early hexcentrics. Anybody know anything about these?
Blakey

Trad climber
Newcastle UK
Nov 25, 2008 - 03:59pm PT
Regarding the EBs, used and mint.

Towards the end of the 70s EBs went from being the shoe of choice, to somethingh no one would touch. The reason being that they went from a glued on separate sole and rand, to a completely moulded sole and rand unit. These were made of a harder rubber and were nowhere near as useable as their predesessors, which pretty much ruled the roost on both sides of the Atlantic.

This almighty c*#k up with the soles coincided with the arrival of several other shoes (like the early blue Asolos) which presaged in turn the arrival of Fires.

The EBs in the photo are 'late models' I think.

Best,

Steve
Chris2

Trad climber
Nov 25, 2008 - 04:03pm PT
The people I know that have those Colorado Nuts...loves them. Wish I had a metal shop!
knieveltech

Social climber
Raleigh NC
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2008 - 05:07pm PT
I happen to have access to a metal shop and have found a source for 6061 T6 aluminum I-beam of the correct dimensions. Once I get the prototype replicas fabricated I'm sending them off to be pull tested. Assuming they perform as expected I'd be willing to make sets for folks.
Chris2

Trad climber
Nov 25, 2008 - 05:10pm PT
Cool...email me direct I will buy some!
Basilisk

Ice climber
New Hampshire
Nov 25, 2008 - 05:14pm PT
I'd buy some also!

Just another reason I love this thread. Thanks for sharing folks
scuffy b

climber
On the dock in the dark
Nov 25, 2008 - 05:54pm PT
There's a market for I-Beams???
couchmaster

climber
Mar 3, 2009 - 11:56am PT
Gear bump for the gear whores. BTW, I have some EB'S I sewed leather onto which I'll try to get a pic on. The thin canvas usually got eaten through before the sole if you did any kind of sharp crack or offwidth jamming. They were very expensive shoes then, I think @ $30 a pair or so if memory serves me right.
anees

climber
Oct 30, 2010 - 09:03pm PT
Bump...

Does anyone recognize this nut?
Credit: anees

For more info and photos, plus bigger photo size, you can go to the original post over at MP (http://www.mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/can_anyone_id_this_old_mystery_nut/106943278#a_106943375)

This nut was dug out of the back of the Stanford Alpine Club's gear shed... is it some sorta neat old-school California original?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 30, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
Alex,

I agree - it looks homemade. Looks like milling marks on the largest face.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 31, 2010 - 01:46am PT
What does the top of the nut look like?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 31, 2010 - 02:46am PT
The images are on the MP link:
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 31, 2010 - 03:01am PT
Yup, homemade for sure!
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Dec 16, 2011 - 11:56am PT
This is a cool thread.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Feb 24, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
Out of the sad, and massive clean-up operation to dispose of Jenny Martin's piles-o-stuff in her garage:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2066314&tn=0&mr=0

Salvaged a handful of old gear. Evidently stored on one of the coasts for some time, much corroded, far too gone and decrepit for any climbing use, but a few interesting items:

Bedayn Biner. This one in good shape, 3 others badly corroded/tarnishe...
Bedayn Biner. This one in good shape, 3 others badly corroded/tarnished/pitted
Credit: crunch

Some old Chouinard "Regular" Hexentrics and a couple wired stoppers of about the same vintage.

And some alternative Hexagons/Regular Hexentrics. The larger, #6 Eigers are shaped, like the early Chouinard Hexentrics, to have a wider lower, bearing face, narrower upper, non-bearing face:

Eiger Hexagons
Eiger Hexagons
Credit: crunch

"6" on back and front, no manufacturer stamp, presumably Eiger????
"6" on back and front, no manufacturer stamp, presumably Eiger????
Credit: crunch

Colorado Nut Hexagon 1.5:

Colorado Nut Number 1 and a half
Colorado Nut Number 1 and a half
Credit: crunch

Colorado Nut One-and-One-Half. Love the oversize number-stamping and t...
Colorado Nut One-and-One-Half. Love the oversize number-stamping and the classic use of the fraction instead of the decimal.
Credit: crunch

As well as an SMC Hexagon, which, like the Colorado Nut Hex, is an exact hexagon in profile:

SMC Hexagon, unusual is that the bearing faces are not sized larger th...
SMC Hexagon, unusual is that the bearing faces are not sized larger than the non-bearing faces--a true haxagon shape
Credit: crunch

And a couple mystery nuts:

Here's a hexagon. A true hexagon, again. No markings except a lengthwise seam of some kind on one of the non-bearing faces:

Mystery hex nut.
Mystery hex nut.
Credit: crunch

Mystery hex
Mystery hex
Credit: crunch

And, maybe easier, an unmarked nut, possibly a baby Moac? (EDIT: It's a Gendarme! Thanks Steve Grossman).

nut
nut
Credit: crunch

nut
nut
Credit: crunch

nut
nut
Credit: crunch

The mystery gear might be Colorado Nut Co. related, since Jenny lived in the Chicken Coop for a while. A mystery why she would have these ancient relics, she'd have been a little kid when many of these were made. but, she sure seemed to not throw much away....

Maybe someone might even recognize these. Pale blue paint on some items. Also initials, maybe DCH, stamped on a nylon Foxhead?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 24, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
The last one is a Gendarme Nut.

The #6 is an Eiger for sure.
wivanoff

Trad climber
CT
Feb 24, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
Here's a hexagon. A true hexagon, again. No markings except a lengthwise seam of some kind on one of the non-bearing faces:

It's not a seam. It's an extrusion mark from an imperfection in the extruding die and doesn't affect anything. The nut was cut from hex stock, holes drilled, ends tapered.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Feb 24, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
Wow, Steve. An answer within, what, 3 minutes? Uncanny!

Never heard of Gendarme Nuts, but I have now. A quick search reveals they were made near Seneca Rocks, hence Gendarme name.

I'm seeing a parallel here with the early Chouinard pitons. As Chouinard modified and streamlined their early pitons manufacturing, other manufacturers were driven out of business (or just lost interest). Seems like a similar process with the early nuts. The larger sizes were easy enough to make and many folks tried their hand: Eiger, SMC, Colorado Nut Co.

But Chouinard's/Frost's development of "Regular Hexentrics" and then the even more sophisticated Poly-whatsit Hexentrics was enough to make much of the domestic competition gave up.

Cheers,
Crusher

EDIT: Thanks for the clarification, wivanoff!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 24, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
Plenty of information about Gendarme Nuts here...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1397992&tn=20

I have a full set to post up soon.

The market dominance of Chouinard Equipment definitely chased a lot of small shapers on to other things.

Tom and Yvon understood that a full range of sizes was just as valuable in a selection of nuts as it was with a rack of pitons. Why this idea didn't have traction in Britain is a mystery.

Most small businesses aren't willing to spring for the sort of big extrusions necessary to compete. Eiger was willing to have their own extrusions made to compete with Chouinard in the larger sizes.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Apr 18, 2013 - 03:36am PT
I acquired this little nut yesterday, and I would appreciate some help from you to identify it. It does not have any famous logo stamped on it. After cleaning it a little, it seems that I can see an “E” stamped on one face. As it does not seem to be “home made”, I am sure that someone here will be easily able to put a name to this “E Nut”. Marty, Steve…?

"E Nut"
"E Nut"
Credit: nutstory
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 20, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
Stephane- Did that come from a European source or North America?

If NA I would guess that it is an MSR wedge but I don't have one to confirm that. The maker had a power swager and did a neat job on the nut so I suspect that it was in production.

Anybody else have a clue?
tansofun

climber
Long Beach, CA
Apr 21, 2013 - 09:52am PT
Credit: tansofun
Anybody know what this is? Looks like a camming nut of some sort. No identifying marks, found it in a gear shop in Kathmandu. Sorry for the poor phone pic.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Apr 21, 2013 - 10:36am PT
Missed this the first around, but it's a fun thread. Read the link to the Needle Sports history of nuts linked on the first page and this caught my eye:

Let's come back to England where, in a small village in the Peak District, Mark Vallance, creator of Wild Country, improved considerably the most classic pyramidal nut. "Rare are the cracks showing the same profile as the nuts". Starting from this statement, in 1978, Mark Vallance thought of changing the two large flat sides to create the maximum possible point contact with the rock. Using some Forrest Foxheads as prototypes he tried a large number of combinations to obtain finally the first curved nut, marketed early in 1979 under the name of Rock. No matter what the angle formed by both sides of a crack, the Rocks have always a three-point contact instead of only two for the pyramidal nut. By coincidence, at about the same time, Geoff Birtles, the Editor of High Mountain Sports magazine, worked with Tom Proctor on a closely similar design. They offered Mark Vallance the name Rocks which was what their device was called.

A curved stopper was made by Richard Harrison and John Long in Richard’s basement in Upland, California sometime around 1974-1975. They took a file to a Chouinard number 7 stopper and gave it into a curved shape, and named it the “Banana Nut”. I was skeptical about it when they showed it to me, but found that it worked well.

Wild Country later patented the curved stopper and when Chouinard brought out its own version, Wild Country sued for patent infringement. Around 1983, Dick Leversee, who was working for Chouinard, called me to confirm the existence of the Banana Nut and I became a witness in the lawsuit.

I testified that the curved design was already in use by Richard, John and I , a fact that was legally significant and could have invalidated the patent under the doctrine called “prior art.”

Richard gave Chouinard’s lawyers the Banana Nut for use in the litigation, but he never got it back. I think the lawsuit was settled out of court, but I am not sure.

Around the same time, Richard and John also filed down a Chouinard Hexentric, giving it a curved side which allowed it to act like a cam.
tansofun

climber
Long Beach, CA
Apr 21, 2013 - 11:15am PT
Reply to my own question, it looks like a wire tri-cam.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 21, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
Wired variation on the theme of an Abalakov cam made from a pulley wheel and not likely a commercial release.

Ricky- Sounds like a colossal waste of money trying to enforce a patent on a nut shape like that but I guess they thought that they had something original.

More questions for Yvon once I get a chance to sit down with him. Tom was gone by then.
SavageMarmot

Trad climber
Nederland, CO
Apr 21, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
Credit: SavageMarmot
Chouinard Stopper:

What size is this? The cord holes are 9.3mm and it measures 21.3mm wide and 32.5mm long at the top. Pre 80's?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 21, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
You need to post a picture with a Stopper of known size nearby for comparison.

Several generations of flat-sided Chouinard Stoppers to consider before they switched to the curved shape.

Stoppers #1-#4 on an open wire and #5- #8 slung in the early seventies. 8 sizes.


Tom Frost photo of Yvon Chouinard wearing his wares.

Stoppers #1- #8 1/2 available on a wire and #4 -#8 1/2 available slung. 16 sizes.







Stoppers #1-#13 available wired some sizes slung. 13 sizes.





SM- Yours is a #7 from the 13 size range set. The last two shots are from the 1978 Great Pacific Ironworks catalog.
SavageMarmot

Trad climber
Nederland, CO
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
Credit: SavageMarmot
Here's a next gen #10 stopper for reference.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
#11 Stopper
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
It looks on closer inspection that you have a older style #7 with undersize cord. Perfect fingerlock size if you have big paws.
SavageMarmot

Trad climber
Nederland, CO
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
My gut says you nailed it. When were these made?

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 21, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
If it's a 1972 first gen stopper and is a #7 it will measure 3/4" by 1-1/4" long

A bit later the #11 is 7/8" which comes up closer to your dimension.

Is your dimension across the narrow aspect or the wide side?

Stopper dimensions were published measured on the narrower of the two widths in the 72 catalog.


couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 21, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
You guys are just saying it a a #7 Stopper cause that's what it says on it. LOL



At least that's what I see. ps, nice post Steve G!

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 21, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
OK you've forced me to go open the junk drawer and get the dial calipers out.

2 samples of #7s 0.84 and 0.85

So the catalog dimensions of 0.75 aren't correct.

Here's another mystery.

I have a #8 that's 1.18 and has the oval hollow extrusion.

This one isn't in the 72 catalog, but I'm sure it was purchased around then.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Apr 22, 2013 - 02:27am PT
Stephane- Did that come from a European source or North America?
Steve- I am sorry, I am not sure of the origin of this little nut. Maybe it was found somewhere in North America. It has a rather similar shape as an old Chouinard Stopper, but it is mounted on a thinner wire.

And... as you mention the Abalakov cam, I am very proud to show you the full set of Grivel Bikov. It took me a long long time to complete the set...
GRIVEL Bikov
GRIVEL Bikov
Credit: nutstory

Rick A- Thank you for sharing the fascinating story of the Banana Nut.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Apr 22, 2013 - 03:25am PT
I agree with TGT. The Chouinard stopper in question looks like a first generation #7. Of course, the numbering has changed over the years and I have no clue what it translates into today's versions.
tansofun

climber
Long Beach, CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 06:52am PT
Wired variation on the theme of an Abalakov cam made from a pulley wheel and not likely a commercial release.

Thanks Steve! Learning more about old gear every day.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
May 25, 2013 - 12:16am PT
Just for fun some Abalakov-style flywheel cams brought back from a Russian exchange expedition by Chuck Kroger and now in the YCA collection.





Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Jul 3, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
Tansofun (my friend) was over in Nepal and bought some souvenirs for us like the one he posted above.

My box of fun just arrived - only took 2 months to get here due a stop by Home Land Security. Here is one item. The Sherpa told him it was an old ice screw.....what do you think it was used for? - Maybe anchoring ladders?

Old homemade screw?  Auger?
Old homemade screw? Auger?
Credit: Roots

photo not found
Missing photo ID#309516

photo not found
Missing photo ID#309517
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jun 30, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
ok so the pictures I posted above didn't interest anyone LOL - it looks much nicer now all cleaned up, but how about this cam? What is known about them?

RADical dude!
RADical dude!
Credit: Roots

Wonder if the Koreans use the word "Rad" in their day to day lives..?
Wonder if the Koreans use the word "Rad" in their day to day lives..?
Credit: Roots
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 30, 2014 - 04:31pm PT
Abalakov (also from a set of 4) obtained during the same surreptitious negotiations as Kroger's.

Still in use...
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:29am PT
....made by Camp. Anyone know anything about them?

Unused
Unused
Credit: Roots
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:08am PT
....made by Camp. Anyone know anything about them?

They should have been made by 'Bunk'.
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jul 14, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
^LOL that do seem sketchy! I guess that's why these are unused?

Well just curious if anyone knows what they are called, circa?

Thanks!
ClimbingOn

Trad climber
NY
Sep 4, 2014 - 08:24pm PT
I recently got this gear sling with a lot of vintage gear I purchased. It looks homemade but the sewing looks professional. No identifying marks on it. Looks like a very early example of a multi-loop gear sling. I believe each "loop" was used for racking pitons. Anyone seen anything like this before?

Credit: ClimbingOn
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Sep 4, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
Credit: ß Î Ø T Ç H
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:11am PT
Climbing #101 April 1987
Climbing #101 April 1987
Credit: nutstory

Roots: your purple nuts are CAMP Pentanuts. They hit the market in 1985. Yours are a “second” generation. First generation doesn’t have lightening holes.
CAMP Pentanuts
CAMP Pentanuts
Credit: nutstory
OR

Trad climber
Sep 5, 2014 - 05:25am PT
I recently got this gear sling with a lot of vintage gear I purchased. It looks homemade but the sewing looks professional. No identifying marks on it. Looks like a very early example of a multi-loop gear sling. I believe each "loop" was used for racking pitons. Anyone seen anything like this before?

Looks like something Forrest would create.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 5, 2014 - 08:49am PT
(left to right) stampted "SMC #2"w/floating cable rolled pin, ...
(left to right) stampted "SMC #2"w/floating cable rolled pin, "the buddy" from Canada, ABC #4 Stone from UK, Forrest flat 2" webbing tie on swammy, Forrest harness with triangular buckles, vintage pins, DOLT stash pocket.
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Sep 5, 2014 - 09:29am PT
The SMC nut is a Quick-Taper Wedge.
The ABC Stone, (also called Gem or Gemstone) was made by Faces. Faces Designs on Mountains (Matlock) was the third British company (with Wild Country and HB Climbing Equipment) to produce cams in the nineties. Faces was jointly owned by Jim Ballard and his wife Alison Hargreaves, Ian Parsons and Ian Brown. Alison was a famous mountaineer. Her death on K2 and the Single European Market rules are probably the two main reasons why Faces went out of business.
At that time, they produced nuts and cams, as Gems, Pearls, Jewels, Tech Cads, Three Cam Cads, Four Cam Cads and Slugs
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Sep 5, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
Thank you!!
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Sep 6, 2014 - 12:10am PT
FortMentäl: I suspect that it might be CAMP as they marketed a rather similar cam in 1989, the Passe Par-Tout, also made in Korea.
CAMP Passe Par-Tout (1989)
CAMP Passe Par-Tout (1989)
Credit: nutstory
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Sep 11, 2014 - 11:54pm PT
The ABC Stone, (also called Gem or Gemstone) was made by Faces. Faces Designs on Mountains (Matlock) was the third British company (with Wild Country and HB Climbing Equipment) to produce cams in the nineties. Faces was jointly owned by Jim Ballard and his wife Alison Hargreaves, Ian Parsons and Ian Brown. Alison was a famous mountaineer. Her death on K2 and the Single European Market rules are probably the two main reasons why Faces went out of business.
At that time, they produced nuts and cams, as Gems, Pearls, Jewels, Tech Cads, Three Cam Cads, Four Cam Cads and Slugs…
Shortly after posting on here some details about the British company Faces Designs On Mountains I was contacted by Ian Parsons who pointed out that the actual order of events rather contradicted the idea that Alison Hargreaves' death had in any way contributed to the the company's demise; its climbing hardware production had largely ceased by the end of 1992, and Faces itself disbanded in early 1993, more than two years before Alison went to K2. He also suggested that they couldn't really blame the looming requirements - but also the opportunities - of the Single European Market; other climbing companies, notably DMM and Wild Country, took these in their stride and prospered.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:26am PT
Hey climbingon; I may know something about that gear sling.
Any chance any of that vintage gear had DWs stamped on it with a metal stamp?


And no, OR, it's not made by Forrest.
OR

Trad climber
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:34am PT
Sling is cool looking whomever made it …..thats for sure.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:35am PT
You should see the new version. OR
Credit: Cosmiccragsman
Credit: Cosmiccragsman


I'm still curious to know if any of that vintage gear climbingOn got
has DWs, metal stamped on it.

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 08:08am PT
That looped gear sling, ClimbingOn showed a pic of, was made in about 1985/1986.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 08:17am PT
Another thing I am curious about is how that looped gear sling made it back to NY.
Not many of them were ever made.
ClimbingOn

Trad climber
NY
Sep 12, 2014 - 08:58am PT
Cosmic, replied to your PM. If it was yours back in the day, or you made it, I'd be happy to mail it to you.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 09:26am PT
No it's ok Climbing on.
I'm just curious to know how the sling made it's way back to NY,
and if any of the vintage gear had D W stamped into the metal.
ClimbingOn

Trad climber
NY
Sep 12, 2014 - 09:30am PT
No DW initials stamped on any of it. So spill the beans - who made it?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 09:57am PT
I might start making them again once I make a deal with
someone to do the sewing in quantity, as I don't have a sewing machine anymore.
I Have a couple of small companies in mind that I am going to talk to.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 10:17am PT
BTW, This gear rack,

Credit: Cosmiccragsman

was not sewn by me. it was sewn by John Yates on special order,
working on the design I gave him.
I no longer had a good sewing machine
to make the rack, so I had John do it.


Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Sep 12, 2014 - 11:21am PT
Cosmic, racked up for Pine Line?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
^^^^^^^

No. That's the way my rack looks when I take it out of my pack.
I take off what I don't need for a climb and use what's left on the rack.

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Sep 12, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
Lol.. #3's and a 4 on pine line? Lol
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 12, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
My rack is ready for any climb except for maybe climbs at Indian Creek.
and my storage rack has all the multiple pieces I would need for IC
wgd

Mountain climber
vancouver
Oct 24, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
Wondering if someone can help me identify who manufactured these piton holders ... picture is from 1966/67 Ski Hut Catalog

Credit: wgd
OlympicMtnBoy

climber
Seattle
Oct 24, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
And what was the purpose of that hook on the right? I have one of those, never found a use for it, even for bat hooking.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Oct 24, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
WGD... the piton holder pictures was called a Bandolier and was manufactured by Bill Forrest of Forrest Mountaineering.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 24, 2014 - 10:44pm PT
Simon,
I believe the Piton Holder above predates the Forrest products,
PinBin and a Bandolier which held PinBins:

I believe this Piton Holder has been discussed on supertopo,
but I'm not sure if I can find that discussion.

The hook shown is apparently an early model Chouinard Cliffhanger.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 25, 2014 - 12:18am PT
Clint Cummins, you are right, the “piton-carrier” has already been discussed on supertopo, here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1077283&msg=1145453#msg1145453
Piton Carrier, 1st and 2nd generation
Piton Carrier, 1st and 2nd generation
Credit: nutstory
Simon, after such an error, I am wondering if it would not be the time for you to part with a set of your Stubai Trangos… ;-)
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 25, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
Agreed...LOL
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 25, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
Thanks, Stephane - it's great that we have a true expert like yourself to provide the answer when the rest of us come up short!
OlympicMtnBoy

climber
Seattle
Oct 25, 2014 - 07:04pm PT
Cool, I didn't realize the cliffhanger had undergone such a radical change to the current version. And there isn't any labeling on mine. Thanks!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 25, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
The interesting historical connection between these piton keepers and the Forrest Pinbin bandolier concept is made clear in a prototype Pinbin that I got from Bob Culp that featured the classic Pinbin trapezoidal shape rendered in metal tubing pinched and formed just like the earlier designs.
wgd

Mountain climber
vancouver
Oct 27, 2014 - 09:42am PT
thanks everyone .. appreciate the replys
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Apr 9, 2015 - 11:35am PT
Fun stuff!...more homemade gear anyone?

Credit: Roots
Montecarlo

Trad climber
Stockholm, Sweden
May 26, 2015 - 06:21am PT
wgd and clint cummins, the piton holder was, I think, manufactured by Stubai in Austria. The fi-fi hook looks like the model Salewa made, but maybe others have produced similar models.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 26, 2015 - 07:32am PT
Sticht link, Roots?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
May 27, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
The oval piton holder was also advertised in the Blacks of Greenock catalogue in the late '60s(?) or early '70s.

Might have been manufactured by Stubai.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 27, 2015 - 04:46pm PT
I am pretty sure the middle "hook" is fifi hook for french free.

Edit:

I saw two French climbers trying to climb the first pitch of Serenity Crack when it was running with water. The leader would place some pro, try to make a few moves, and then hang by a hook just like that one on the pro to rest or place more pro.

There was so much water that when he tried to place a jam water would actually run down his arm and start dripping off of his elbows. It was sort of funny and sad all at the same time, but I had to give him credit for perseverance
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jun 3, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
^ The French are kick ass climbers.

Here's another link but this one is made of aluminum:

Made for climbing...not for locking up your bike.
Made for climbing...not for locking up your bike.
Credit: Roots

karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Jun 4, 2015 - 05:18pm PT
The aluminum single chain links colored red and non colored were made by MSR as a belay and rappel device shown in the 1970s MSR catalog. The MSR chain link may date back to 1969. The Arizona Mountaineering Club sold stainless steel chain links back in the late 1960s to use for the same purpose. The hook looks like a First Generation Chouinard Cliff Hanger so advertisement probably mid 1960s.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Jun 5, 2015 - 04:33pm PT
MSR  April 1973 Newsletter Catalog
MSR April 1973 Newsletter Catalog
Credit: karabin museum
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jun 5, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
Would love to get my hands on some of those old Forrest P-Nuts. They were springy but I liked 'em
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Jun 6, 2015 - 11:58am PT
The Piton carrier is a Salewa Clip
1970s Ellis Brigham catalog
1970s Ellis Brigham catalog
Credit: karabin museum
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Jun 6, 2015 - 12:00pm PT
Arizona Mountaineering Club belay and rap link. c1969-1970s
AMC belay/rappel link
AMC belay/rappel link
Credit: karabin museum
Gunks Jesse

Trad climber
Shawangunk, NY
Jun 29, 2015 - 08:19am PT
For those of you who are Colorado Nut gear lovers, a #3 and a #4 I-beam chock fromy collection are going up on eBay. They are both in great shape. The #3 is up and the #4 will follow shortly. Here is a link to my current items for sale from my collection:

http://m.ebay.com/sch/flashoflight2/m.html?_pgn=1&isRefine=true

couchmaster

climber
Jul 2, 2015 - 02:32pm PT
Your link doesn't work for me, here's the list of your ebay stuff for anyone looking: http://www.ebay.com/sch/flashoflight2/m.html?item=161748670246&hash=item25a8f8d726&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Both of your Colorado Nuts are well over $100, congrats! Would have been a hell of an investment had you stocked up when they were new:-) The #3 is at $128 and there are 3 days left on the auction.

Edit, the #3 Colorado Nut sold for $157! Whoah.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Jul 22, 2015 - 12:32am PT
My turn to ask some help from you my friends… There is a set of camming devices on eBay at the moment and… I have no idea about the maker. Steve, the “Maestro” must sometimes confess his ignorance… and lose your confidence…
"Unknown" cams
"Unknown" cams
Credit: eBay
"Unknown" cam
"Unknown" cam
Credit: eBay
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jul 22, 2015 - 08:34am PT
You will never lose my confidence, Maestro.

Until the Nutstory is complete we are all fishing around for the details. I don't recognize the cams but the stems obviously took some care so I would start trying to study that detail. The slotted axle screws are pretty distinctive too and an odd choice. Did you contact the seller for details?
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Jul 22, 2015 - 09:38am PT
Steve, here is what was mentioned in the auction: A set of seven rock climbing camming devices. These are of unknown age and provenance and should be used appropriately. That being said, they seem structurally sound, and the springs all work fine. They all seem to have been used rather gently, and the only visible sign of use are minor surface scratches. Some of these have plastic and other metal triggers, and all are in need of professional reslinging. Their width when fully opened is around 10, 8, 7, 5.5, 3.5, 3 and 2.5 cm. Free shipping and UK ONLY!

These cams have been sold this morning.

Until the Nutstory is complete we are all fishing around for the details.
Fortunately Steve, it is a never ending quest...
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 22, 2015 - 10:01am PT
Some of these have plastic and other metal triggers,

that makes me think that they may be of Korean origin, some time in the early 90's ? i have a
off-size #1 that has a red plastic trigger(bar) that broke in the slot, snapped in half while my second tried to remove it.
So cheap a knock off, the trigger, but the rest seemed bomber.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Jul 22, 2015 - 11:07am PT
Maybe Russian? Wonder if the cam lobes are ti?
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Jul 23, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
Not sure who made the cams but the closest thing I could find was a Stregor cam from the Ukraine. The Stregor has the same flat head screw and washer, the same stem end for the carabiner and the same stem end where it attaches to the axle. Also the cam lobe tips angle downward (large cams). Maybe those cams are early Stregor?

Stregor cam, Ukraine
Stregor cam, Ukraine
Credit: karabin museum
Stregor cam, Ukraine
Stregor cam, Ukraine
Credit: karabin museum
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Jul 24, 2015 - 12:36am PT
Thank you Marty! You may probably be right.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 24, 2015 - 04:21am PT
Amazing, there was a strong contingent of Checz (ukraine ?) climbers in the Gunks in the '80s.
They had an older mentor, who had a small home at the base of the route 44/55, the main road that ran past the Trapps, the main climbing area of the Mohonk preserve.
His name was Jon Burr. He made yearly trips back to Eastern Europe...and came home with as well as inspired communist block climbers, Goodies, like that.
One at least became a Mohnk Ranger, and I think still is. His name is Frank Tach.(?)
The poster 'Happie girl' is a seasonal ranger and may be able to put you in touch.
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Jul 30, 2015 - 01:40pm PT
I've never seen one of these: Saw it on Ebay today.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Lot-of-Rock-Climbing-Gear-Hexs-Stoppers-and-Misc-Webbing-/231632299412?hash=item35ee5c6594

Credit: Banquo
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jul 30, 2015 - 06:36pm PT
That looks like a poor attempt at a stackable made from one or possibly two large Stoppers and not likely to be anything beyond that by my eye.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Jul 31, 2015 - 01:09am PT
Steve, I would not say that it is such a poor attempt. I am far from being an engineer but, as a modest collector, I find this nut rather interesting and beautiful.
Home made stacked or opposed nuts
Home made stacked or opposed nuts
Credit: eBay
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Jul 31, 2015 - 07:05am PT
I am an engineer and I think it is interesting and probably works - as well as stackable nuts do. I won't bid on it but I'd like to try it.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Jul 31, 2015 - 07:37am PT
I can't bid on it but I'd love to have it…
I am not an engineer but… when looking closely at the device, it seems to me that there should be more friction on the two nuts against each rock face than on the nuts against each other; so it might work. Anyway, thank you Banquo for posting it here.
Gunks Jesse

Trad climber
Shawangunk, NY
Aug 25, 2015 - 06:49pm PT
Not a mystery who made it to me: obviously a Forrest piece, size 2. But what was it called...
Forrest something?
Forrest something?
Credit: Gunks Jesse

Also, got a couple SMC camlock nuts. Anybody ever used them? They look pretty cool and am debating on selling them off or adding them to my rack for the Gunks.. Advice?
SMC camlock.  Keep or sell?
SMC camlock. Keep or sell?
Credit: Gunks Jesse
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Aug 25, 2015 - 06:56pm PT
Forrest Arrowhead...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 25, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
SMC Camlock, sort of semi-useless for camming, ok as a nut if it fit something.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Aug 26, 2015 - 03:24am PT
I have just received most interesting information from our friend Ashby Robertson (Vertical Archaeology) regarding the mysterious cams sold on eBay a few weeks ago. Mystery solved…?
I saw a post you put on Supertopo about some unmarked cams. I had a climbing partner in Seoul, Korea in 1990 who had a set exactly like that. Completely unmarked, random plastic or light metal trigger (both bent!), and really stiff trigger action. They seemed to be early flex-friends copies and overall the construction wasn't too bad. The cable stem was floppy and inconsistent on the small sizes and almost ridged on the big size. I think we only had 5 units though... I don't have any pictures of that stuff but I remember it very well.
I think they were Czechoslovakian. My partner who owned them picked them up while stationed in Germany with the US Army. Sometimes you could find weird things for sale cheap if visiting climbers were trying to turn gear into money for their trip home.
I'm not sure all of these were of the origin I just outlined. The two middle sized units look a little different.
"Unknown" cams
"Unknown" cams
Credit: eBay
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:13am PT
Here's a couple of small pitons that came from Ed Cooper's kit. Anyone know what we have here:

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Sep 30, 2015 - 09:21am PT
^^^^^^^
Look like someone's version of a RURP.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 1, 2015 - 12:20am PT
It seems to be plectrums for heavy metal rock guitar player...;-)
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Oct 2, 2015 - 08:12am PT
^Ha! So true!

Here's a comparison picture of what I believe to be a DOLT Thin Bit. Prior to obtaining the one shown from Ed, it was the smallest piton I had ever seen...

DOLT on left
DOLT on left
Credit: Roots
Gunks Ray

Trad climber
Gunks
Oct 2, 2015 - 10:41am PT

Also, got a couple SMC camlock nuts. Anybody ever used them? They look pretty cool and am debating on selling them off or adding them to my rack for the Gunks.. Advice?


SMC camlock. Keep or sell?
SMC camlock. Keep or sell?
Credit: Gunks Jesse

I used an SMC Camlock like in your photo to protect the first crux move into the overhangs on the first attempts of Suppers Ready in the Gunks, it was a key piece, nobody had anything else that would work in the small horizontal. This was back in 84 so it was before all the small cams came out. I'm pretty sure it was still on the route and used by Jim D on the first ascent.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Oct 2, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
You need more of those SMC cam locks.










I'll sell you my old set.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 2, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
Gunks Ray ?!?
There can be only one!
Just this week I jawed at Frank Minuni!
Now you ?
It must be. . '
83 ?
Suppers Ready?
SMC Wired Cam locks,!!? (in opposition they would stay )

You almost never post
Is that a way to be cool in the Gunks thing,
' always knew you to be above most of that.
Glad to hear tell of you ! How is Hay?




Over on the project they are in need of
A history lesson about weschester climbing
They think that they are the first at Byram Lake Rd
The big #s cliff at Armonk! You were there before me or Al I think?
(I know you got tic bit & Lymes)was that also 83?
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Oct 6, 2015 - 08:44am PT
Speaking of RURPS; how about these - any idea who made them?

Ed Cooper said he used them on the FA of NE Face of Mt. Baring 7/1960:

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 7, 2015 - 07:15am PT
I have just discovered these two cams on eBay. To my knowledge, these close copies of the Wild Country Technical Friends (1987) were made by the Canadian company, Outland Climbing Equipment, in the early nineties. They were called Outland Four Cam Units and marketed in five sizes. Is there anybody here who could confirm it?
OUTLAND Four Cam Units
OUTLAND Four Cam Units
Credit: eBay.com
OUTLAND Four Cam units
OUTLAND Four Cam units
Credit: eBay.com
OUTLAND CLIMBING EQUIPMENT three cam unit & four cam unit
OUTLAND CLIMBING EQUIPMENT three cam unit & four cam unit
Credit: nutstory
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Oct 22, 2015 - 09:48am PT
^^^^^bump for my mystery RURPS and micro pitons....
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Oct 23, 2015 - 10:26am PT
Here's another mystery piece of gear but not "pro"..hope you gear whores don't mind ; )

Was used by Gene and Betsy White. Betsy said it was made by Forrest and probably a prototype. Anyone know?

Heavy!!
Heavy!!
Credit: Roots

Credit: Roots

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 23, 2015 - 10:34am PT
SMC Camlocks - pretty bogus, but worked OK as regular nuts. Carried 'em for a while until I
decided they didn't have much 'range'.

That pipe above looks like you would really have to suck hard on it!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 23, 2015 - 01:42pm PT
There were some nut tool / hammers that looked like that made from nuclear reactor control rods. I'd suggest taking a giger counter to that thing.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Oct 23, 2015 - 01:49pm PT
Stephane,

I have several of those Outland Cams. Mine have a red-colored trigger. Probably a size thing.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Oct 23, 2015 - 07:30pm PT


Roots: nice Dolt Bits! The ebay hammer nut tool looks homemade to me. Rurps unknown but you are going on Eds memory. Are you positive those Rurps are from 1960?

Stephane: My 5 cam set I have listed as Extreme Cams from Extreme Mountain Gear from Canada late 1980s. The cams are shown in an advertisement in R&I or Climbing magazine. These are Outland Cams? The slings were added by Ragged Mountain.

Extreme Cams, Canada late 1980s
Extreme Cams, Canada late 1980s
Credit: karabin museum
Extreme Cams, Canada late 1980s
Extreme Cams, Canada late 1980s
Credit: karabin museum
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Oct 23, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
Roots. I had one of the Forrest Bam nut tools.
It was ok but I ultimatly took the Nut off and kept the cleaning tool.



Pika had one called the Nutbuster
that was almost a takeoff of the Forrest Bam Nut.



Does anyone remember the Forrest 4 inch swami belt?
I loved it. I'd use 1 inch webbing for leg loops
I switched from the 2 inch webbing swami wrap around for the Forrest 4 inch.



nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 24, 2015 - 12:56am PT
The Canadian company Outland Climbing Equipment Ltd started in 1989. They produced nuts, TCUs and four cam units in the early nineties. The Extreme Mountaingear cams were made by Outland Climbing Equipment Ltd.
Outland Climbing Equipment brochure
Outland Climbing Equipment brochure
Credit: nutstory
bhilden, are your Outland cams that have a red-colored trigger bar the same size?
Marty, I suspect that it is the advertisement that you mention in your post.
Extreme Mountaingear advertisement
Extreme Mountaingear advertisement
Credit: nutstory
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Oct 27, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
Roots: nice Dolt Bits! The ebay hammer nut tool looks homemade to me. Rurps unknown but you are going on Eds memory. Are you positive those Rurps are from 1960?

-DOLT it is then, but does not look like his finished quality. Maybe prototype?

-I thought it was homemade too, but Betsy didn't hesitate when she answered "The nut tool was made by Bill Forrest, probably a prototype".

-Ed's is suffering from CRS. He couldn't remember if some of what I have was used on Dihedral Wall FA or not, even though some of the pieces are displayed in the DH gear photo.

-However, he did clearly remember using those RURPS on the FA of Mt. B. He said without them, the ascent would not have been possible.

-If he is remembering correctly, that kinds of throws off the Chouinard timeline on RURPS???? If they are Chouinard...

-He stopped buying climbing gear in 1964.

*EDIT: Looks like I have a typo above. Thank you Clint for verifying. 1961.*


Thanks for the help!


PS More to come : )
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 27, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
-If he is remembering correctly, that kinds of throws off the Chouinard timeline on RURPS???? If they are Chouinard...
Ed's timeline is consistent with Chouinard, and Ed's are Chouinard RURPs.

RURP: invented by Yvon Chouinard and Tom Frost for the April 1960 FA of Kat Pinnacle - Southwest Face

Mt. Baring - North Face - FA: Don Gordon and Ed Cooper, July 13, 1961.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 29, 2015 - 10:51am PT
What is this...?
Jaybro's mystery pro
Jaybro's mystery pro
Credit: Jaybro
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Oct 29, 2015 - 02:50pm PT

Wow cool! I like how the end of the trigger bar is cut in for a thumb catch
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Oct 30, 2015 - 08:38am PT
Pitons made by whom??!!

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 30, 2015 - 09:30am PT
Dolt...
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Oct 30, 2015 - 09:53am PT
DOLT!!

Well of course I had hoped for that answer but again, the quality is not top notch like other examples I have of his gear. Seems his early creations were not as "finished" as his later ones?

karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Oct 31, 2015 - 09:09am PT

looks like Dolt with the welded ends
Dolt, 1958 catalog
Dolt, 1958 catalog
Credit: karabin museum
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 31, 2015 - 12:51pm PT
Classic Dolt!

13 sizes where two or three would be more than adequate.
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
Oct 31, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
Except that he did find making two of the same size "nuttifying"... ;D
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 1, 2015 - 10:13pm PT
Nuttifying it is!

So very Dolt!
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Nov 2, 2015 - 08:52am PT
Oh - you guys are good..thank you for the help!

How about this set:

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots

Ed Cooper Collection
Ed Cooper Collection
Credit: Roots
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Nov 2, 2015 - 06:25pm PT

They look crude but beautiful, creator unknown.

looks like a personal creation, not from a manufacturer
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 2, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
Unless Ed knows the story behind those pitons they look like student pieces.

Cooper and Baldwin worked with a local blacksmith when the Grand Wall was going up but those don't look to be made with much skill at all. I will say that Dick Long forged his horizontals from thick bar and these may have been his first attempts at forging but that would need to be confirmed directly.

That bottom one has a lot of eye deformation which would lead me to believe that these are not tempered alloy pitons.

Everyone starts somewhere...
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Nov 2, 2015 - 10:09pm PT
I like Steve's thought that these could be early models by Dick Long.
Here are his April 1964 models for reference:
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Nov 3, 2015 - 08:08am PT
Interesting....the majority of his kit that I now have is Longware; bongs, etc.

I really like this set. They are thick and heavy but small.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Nov 4, 2015 - 09:43pm PT

The Dolt pitons are amazing! They look beat up but still has their original shape. Classic Dolt! Its nice that a few have surfaced. Thanks Roots for posting the pics.
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Dec 9, 2015 - 08:59am PT
Is this one of the early RURPs

Chossboss

Trad climber
The GNAR
Dec 9, 2015 - 11:54am PT
That looks like a standard production RURP to me. Early 80's Chouinard Equipment.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 9, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
Nutstory, those are 'Cloud Nines.' A production runs on #9's, and a 9" and 12", with. a bd 5 and a #9 VG, for scale. The nine is a close to production model. They are twenty first century cams, made by offwidth superstar Bart Bledsoe in London, Kentucky.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Dec 9, 2015 - 11:46pm PT
Jaybro, thank you very much for your answer! Would it be possible to get Bart Bledsoe’s email address? I would be delighted to get in touch with him…
Then… hum… Jaybro, with such magnificent weapons on your rack now, you do no longer need your old Wired Bliss Big Bud #7…? Hurrah! No matter its condition, it will find a well-deserved retirement here in Corsica…
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Dec 20, 2015 - 12:13pm PT

ABC cam units
ABC cam units
Credit: karabin museum

Both are sets of ABC cam units with white trigger bars. The question is: which set was developed first? Also date created?

In the above photo the top set has oval thumb bars stamped “ABC” and white open trigger bars. The bottom set has square thumb bars with a “ABC within a carabiner outline” stamp and closed trigger bars held by a pin.

I would think the improvements on the units would be the oval thumb bar (top) but at the same time the pins on the trigger bars (bottom) serve as an improvement. If money was being saved on the mfg of the units then the cams should have square thumb bars, simple “ABC” stamp and no pins.

Hmmm, so which set was developed first?
Happy Holidays!

ABC cam units
ABC cam units
Credit: karabin museum
ABC cam units
ABC cam units
Credit: karabin museum
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Jan 10, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
Roots will like this! I was researching the Lowe Alpine Systems belay device, which basically is a SMC rappel ring, and I found your mystery ebay nut tool. It is a Lowe Alpine Systems Hammer and Nut Tool. Notice on the 1974 price list that it retails for more than the Split Cam device retails for.

1976 Lowe Alpine Systems catalog, cover
1976 Lowe Alpine Systems catalog, cover
Credit: karabin museum
1976 Lowe Alpine Systems catalog <br/>
page 18
1976 Lowe Alpine Systems catalog
page 18
Credit: karabin museum
1976 Lowe Alpine Systems catalog <br/>
page 19
1976 Lowe Alpine Systems catalog
page 19
Credit: karabin museum
1976 Lowe Alpine Systems catalog <br/>
page 20
1976 Lowe Alpine Systems catalog
page 20
Credit: karabin museum
1974 Lowe Alpine Systems product sheet
1974 Lowe Alpine Systems product sheet
Credit: karabin museum
1974 Lowe Alpine Systems, price list
1974 Lowe Alpine Systems, price list
Credit: karabin museum

Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jan 11, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Yes! Awesome..thank you!
grover

climber
Castlegar BC
Jan 11, 2016 - 09:31am PT
Mystery solved
Mystery solved
Credit: grover

Thanks for the info. Marty.

I always wondered why the ring had a swage.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 16, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
Just now saw this, I'll send you his contact info, via super taco IM, he's also on Facebook.

Another inventor has borrowed my WB #7 but I'll get it back by this summer.

Also, have you seen the Pamalots?

Credit: Jaybro

Jaybro, thank you very much for your answer! Would it be possible to get Bart Bledsoe’s email address? I would be delighted to get in touch with him…
Then… hum… Jaybro, with such magnificent weapons on your rack now, you do no longer need your old Wired Bliss Big Bud #7…? Hurrah! No matter its condition, it will find a well-deserved retirement here in Corsica…
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 16, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
It's a gay old time in Camelot and you get to push the Pamalot?!?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 16, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
Credit: Stolen from the Internet
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Jan 18, 2016 - 03:07am PT
Just now saw this, I'll send you his contact info, via super taco IM, he's also on Facebook.
Another inventor has borrowed my WB #7 but I'll get it back by this summer.
Also, have you seen the Pamalots?
Jaybro, thank you so much for your message! I am going to try to get in touch with Bart... Wait & see...
Oh yes, I have seen the Pamalots. On the photographs shown on the Internet the trigger system seems to be a little "crude".
So we can suspect that your Wired Bliss #7 is going to have some more "children" in the future...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 18, 2016 - 08:40am PT
It's looking like it!
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Feb 6, 2016 - 07:50am PT
I don't know if these qualify as "old mystery pro" but they might. I was told they are US military surplus but don't know. There are no marks. I have no need for them so if Stephan or Marty wants them I'm willing to part with them.

Credit: Banquo

Credit: Banquo

Credit: Banquo
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Feb 8, 2016 - 03:52am PT
Banquo,

I have seen these nuts on ebay a few times but never knew who the manufacturer was. Yes I will love to have the set of nuts for the Karabin Museum. I have seen these nuts numbered 1-5 as well.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Feb 8, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Banquo,

I have seen these nuts on ebay a few times but never knew who the manufacturer was. Yes I will love to have the set of nuts for the Nuts Museum. I have seen these nuts numbered 1-5 as well.

Marty, forgive this joke... and Banquo, thank you very much for your kind attention. Anyway, it will be much cheaper for you to give them to Marty than to post them to Corsica.
Edit: this morning, after twenty five years of research, I finally completed the Troll Tee Chock collection, so I feel very generous today :-)
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Feb 8, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
They are on their way to Marty although I would have been happy to send them to Corsica. Marty answered first so that's it.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Feb 9, 2016 - 12:18am PT
Banquo, I was probably sleeping when Marty posted on this thread... ;-)
Anyway, again, I thank you very much for thinking to me regarding this most interesting set.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Feb 10, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
Banquo - The set of nuts have arrived and are now in the Karabin Climbing Museum. Thank you so much for your support and donations to the museum! The nuts are crude with wire ends sticking out from the swags and the edges of the nuts are sharp. The wire holes drilled through the nut is the same size as the braided wires so I am sure assembly was tedious. Don't get me wrong I love these nuts! Yet they still lack a manufactures name and history.

Stephane: I read Banquos message about the set of nuts and for no reason, except for my Leo smile, I let you have first crack at them by not responding for 24 hours. I woke up early in the morning and rechecked the post and nobody else had replied. Not Stephane or anybody else! WoW! So Banquo can be proud that his nuts are preserved in the Karabin Museum!

Stephane congrats on the Troll Tee collection. Please share some pictures.....I only have two.........

Credit: karabin museum
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Feb 11, 2016 - 07:49am PT
Glad they got there Marty. Although unfinished, they look pretty solid. They seem to be cut from extrusions so whoever made them must have made enough to bother with getting the extrusions made.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Feb 15, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
Banquo - If these nuts are military I bet a lot of these nuts were made especially for use in training. During action the nuts are probably placed and left there like ladders. John Yates told me "when it comes to action you leave the sh#t behind and you get in there and you clean house!" Good times!

Banquo once again thanks!
Gunks Jesse

Trad climber
Shawangunk, NY
Feb 16, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
I've searched everywhere and can't find anything like this tiny piton. I'm now suspecting it was sheared out of scrap steel at somebody's fab shop for a specific route and placement and then never used. Workmanship is better than somebody hacking something together would typically put into a quick little pin like this though. Anybody ever seen one like it or know what it is?

Mystery pin
Mystery pin
Credit: Gunks Jesse
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Feb 16, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
That little "piton" is actually a pin used to remove a drill bit from the drill holder. I have a few and I think Leeper was one of the distributors at the time.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Feb 16, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Yep...drift pin. Useful if you need to swap out a busted bit.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 16, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
I'm gonna sling my drift pins, that's a good idea
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Feb 17, 2016 - 08:15am PT
How about this MSR tool? The pick angle is so steep I can't imagine that it would work very well on ice. Kind of reminds me of a (forest) fire fighter's axe?

what is this?
what is this?
Credit: Roots
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Feb 17, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
Going through my stuff to sell off and thought I would start here with belay devices I have collected over the years before posting it to the general public.

I wish I could afford to give them to the many worthy museums, but work is slow etc. If your interested let me know what it is worth to you. And if you'd care to comment on or identify that would be cool too.





Belay devices over the years
Belay devices over the years

Curious about the age of some of these. The top right has no markings ...
Curious about the age of some of these. The top right has no markings nor the yellow ring.
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Feb 17, 2016 - 10:11pm PT
Here is another odd belay device

another belay device
another belay device
I wonder what year this was made
I wonder what year this was made
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 17, 2016 - 10:36pm PT
Hey H what I love besides the whole stash is the colors of the two cords
Leave them and tell buyers not to discard them. The red and green and black flecked with green & pink - decades old but holding fond memories I wish I knew with certainty
Great share though, placed under a Roots share too
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Feb 17, 2016 - 10:38pm PT
what brands of 8s do you have there, H?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Feb 17, 2016 - 10:47pm PT
H;
That kong Brev is not a belay device

It's called a Kong Slyde and it was used in an adjustable shock limiting daisy chain.
I believe it came out in 1996.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Feb 18, 2016 - 12:08am PT
H: Gary Storrick is THE man you are looking for the history.
http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml
Stephen McCabe

Trad climber
near Santa Cruz, CA
Feb 18, 2016 - 01:26am PT
By upper right you must not mean the 9 11mm Salewa Sticht plate with the red rope.
I don't know that other one, but my sticht plate looks identical and has the same red rope with blue,
so the rope seems like it must be the original that came with it.

Stephen
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 18, 2016 - 08:07am PT
I would be interested in the gold ring and the three hole device (two small, one big left of the top figure 8) if it has some sort of stamp on it.
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Feb 18, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Thanks Gnome for the nice feedback.

Alright Cosmic. Thanks for the Kong info. I have Couinard, wild country, Cmi, SMC, BD, and two uknown.
Figure eights. From bottom moving left; Chouinard, Cmi with different ...
Figure eights. From bottom moving left; Chouinard, Cmi with different logos, SMC, 5 BD various colors, 2 unknown, last 2 are Wild Country with differt logos

Nutstory, Gary is an incredible resource. Thanks

Stephen, no I mean the one to the right of the stitch plate, above the gold ring.

Steve I think the gold ring is sold. The 3 holed device your asking about is an Edelrid.

Here are a couple more interesting peices:
Smiley's? never heard of them!
Smiley's? never heard of them!
HBG stamped on the big one but I think it denotes the owner? Otherwise...
HBG stamped on the big one but I think it denotes the owner? Otherwise no markings on these.
Wired nut have long cables with different colored swedges. the slung n...
Wired nut have long cables with different colored swedges. the slung nut looks like it was cast. Not a Forrest?
Stubi "thing" and a Forrest plastic nut
Stubi "thing" and a Forrest plastic nut
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 18, 2016 - 10:14am PT
The nut on purple perlon is a Moac.
Rockies Obscure

Trad climber
rockiesobscure.com....Canada
Feb 18, 2016 - 10:20am PT

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/339713/Smiley-Climbing-Equipment-Steve-Carmen-anyone
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Feb 18, 2016 - 10:41am PT
Thanks Steve I'll add them to a couple others I have. Still interested in the Edlerid?

Rockies thanks. Intertesting story.
D2R2

Sport climber
Earth
Feb 18, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
Credit: D2R2
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 18, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
Harrison- Yes I am interested in the Edelrid device. I will email you about it and the Colorado Nut.

Roots- I looked at that MSR axe and I think it was designed during the brief period when it was considered acceptable style (ala Bugs McKeith) to hang directly from your ice tools in slings so you would drive it in using the hammer head as a striker and run an aider through the hole in the pick. No teeth and the weird droop are very unusual for a swinging axe.
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Feb 18, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
Thanks Steve. I'll put them aside for you and wait for your email.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Feb 18, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
I am interested in the Stubai Trango (nut with rubber ) and the small alum rap ring below the gold Ringdolt if they are still available.

Sweet!
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Feb 18, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
I'd love that plastic Forrest nut... how do I make that happen?
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Feb 19, 2016 - 12:20am PT
the slung nut looks like it was cast. Not a Forrest?
H: your nut is a MOAC Original Chock, 2nd generation.
Please find below a MOAC Original Chock, 1st generation.
MOAC Original Chock, 1st generation
MOAC Original Chock, 1st generation
Credit: nutstory
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Feb 19, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Hi Karabin, They have both been sold and shipped out. What was the diamond shapped thing by Stubai?

Steel I think it was sold I'll get back to you. The first person to inquire get the first chance. Sorry

Nutstory I am not sure they are from the same manufacture. Check out the picture:
The one on the left has an interesting design from the mold it was cas...
The one on the left has an interesting design from the mold it was cast in. the two on the right are stamped MOAC. the one on the left does not. Plus the head size is the same but the taper is longer. Not shown here.

Here is a pin holder made and bought by me in Seattle late '80's. Anyone recognize the logo?
Seattle late 80's
Seattle late 80's
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Feb 20, 2016 - 02:42am PT
H: Ellis Brigham, owner of a chain of outdoor shops in UK who sponsored the die cast first production run of the MOAC Original Chock, also owned a climbing equipment import company, Mountain Activities. Therefore the name MOAC was chosen for this nut, that many British and American climbers still carry them for sentimental reasons. There are two generations of MOAC Original Chock produced in the sixties / early seventies. Mounted on 9 mm rope, if only one size was available, other sizes could be obtained by filing them down to reduce their thickness.
MOAC Original Chock 1st & 2nd generation
MOAC Original Chock 1st & 2nd generation
Credit: nutstory
In 1972, MOAC also produced a set of more "common" nuts, in four different sizes, loose and on wire.
MOACs
MOACs
Credit: nutstory
Regarding the Stubai Trango, they were produced in 1987.
STUBAI Trango
STUBAI Trango
Credit: nutstory
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Feb 23, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
Thanks Nutstory. Yep that's it alright.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 23, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
Crazy, 'Trango' thing!
I had one, that I used to hold a hotel door open, during a prolonged 18 months stay.
got taken, I was & still am angry about that, Lots of stuff walked.....

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2771543&msg=2771661#msg2771661

I was still in need of keeping the door open
went to a piece of scrap Iron I'll see about a pic, but it is not climbing gear so...maybe not.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 23, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
I did not realize that
I had not put these here
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
YES Forrest, P`(EA)' NUT` Think they came in 3 sizes .?
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
They were Brilliant. Left room for the tips of your fingers, A key thing for my short reach
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
, this, # 1, is the perfect size for the Climb OPEN COCKPIT,Gunks, @Sky Top
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 23, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
Well LOVED
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
`old skool` MOACs, & 'straight sided' same vintage? Italian/Chouinard,for comparison
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase

I can't seem to find the snaps of the round peck nuts they are not so rare or strange on the other (uk)side of the pond, so no big deal...










Q-man

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:38am PT
Gnome, first pic is a Forrest P-Nut.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Feb 24, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
H,
Seattle late 80's
Seattle late 80's
Here is a pin holder made and bought by me in Seattle late '80's. Anyone recognize the logo?
C & S Engineering.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010201152400/http://www.cands.net/
(page archived in 2001)
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 25, 2016 - 06:58am PT
As always thanks , Clint, it only led to more questions....

Hey,
EDIT:
Q-man? ~ yup,(1of 3sizes?) Forrest Peanut,
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
No mention of the Lowe proto-type? cam, thing!?



nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Feb 25, 2016 - 07:47am PT
This is not a prototype. It is a splendid sample of Lowe Split Cam (1974), slightly different from mine that has a composite ring between the two cam lobes.
LOWE Split Cam &#40;1974&#41;
LOWE Split Cam (1974)
Credit: nutstory
Forrest Mountaineering P-Nuts, 1982. Four sizes covered 1/2" to 1-1/4"
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 25, 2016 - 08:09am PT

Ah 4 sizes, I only had 3. and I thought it was "P" also but wanted to draw out this elusive Q-man poster....


whoa, editing at the same time as your answer!
I was thinking it looked pre production? no spring or Grooved "teeth"?


I `so' miss my collection of old gear!
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Feb 25, 2016 - 11:42am PT
Roots- I looked at that MSR axe and I think it was designed during the brief period when it was considered acceptable style (ala Bugs McKeith) to hang directly from your ice tools in slings so you would drive it in using the hammer head as a striker and run an aider through the hole in the pick. No teeth and the weird droop are very unusual for a swinging axe.

Thanks Steve...I love the very unusual stuff : )

steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Feb 25, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
Stephane - I assume the split headed version of the Lowe Cam came along as an improvement over the non-split version? Do you have a date of mfr on the unsplit cam?

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Feb 25, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Greg,
There's lots of info on the Lowe Cam on Stephane's page:
http://www.needlesports.com/content/nuts-story-clockwork-friends.aspx
1972 - single lobe prototypes
1973 - patent for constant angle cam
1973-May - ad for single lobe cam for $3.95 in Climbing magazine
1974 - twin lobe cam
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Feb 25, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
- H: Thanks anyways. I already had the same size Trango you did but I was going to send it to the Olson collection. In the photos I show the Stubai Trango #1, 4, 6 and I have the #5 in a display at the Phoenix Rock Gym. Many years ago I traded to Gary Neptune my #3 for a Salathe Bolt hanger. Not sure who made the smaller aluminum rap ring.

 Stephane: that Lowe Split Cam photo is sweet!

Stubai Trango #1, 4, 6
Stubai Trango #1, 4, 6
Credit: karabin museum
Stubai Trango
Stubai Trango
Credit: karabin museum
Lowe Split Cam and Cam Nut
Lowe Split Cam and Cam Nut
Credit: karabin museum
Lowe Alpine Systems catalog, 1976
Lowe Alpine Systems catalog, 1976
Credit: karabin museum
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 25, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
Classic Cartoon!
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Feb 25, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
Clint Thanks for finding the C and S ad. Interesting site "the way back machine". I guess they were not very successfull. Anyway nice to have a piece of history.

Gnome good eye on the Split cam. I have not figured how much I want for that one yet, but its up for grabs. I used to have a single shaft but don't know where it ended up.
Here is a different angle
Here is a different angle
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 1, 2016 - 03:18am PT
steelmnkey:
Stephane,
When Mike Lowe asked me to split the cams [of the Lowe Cam Nut], which as you know are cast aluminum, I didn't realize that the alloy would make the cutting process somewhat difficult. I made a jig for our cut-off saw that would hold the casting firmly when I cut them, but the casting was very 'dirty', meaning that there were impurities in the aluminum that sent sparks flying and dulled the carbide saw blade very quickly. I was very happy that I only had a few hundred cams to split!
[Billy Ross, 29 May 2009]
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 1, 2016 - 07:49am PT
Another mystery pro… It is my turn to need a little help from my friends on Supertopo. Is there anybody here who would has ever seen these cams? I got them a couple of weeks ago, but I do not know anything about them. They are quite similar to the Advanced Base Camp cams (made in Korea) but the axle ends are different. Only the four cam unit is stamped with “ROCK FACE II”
Unknown cams
Unknown cams
Credit: nutstory
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Mar 2, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
No idea on those cams.

Is this a CMI Kirk's Kamm or a RokJox? If the latter was that also by CMI?
Kirk's Kamm or RokJox?
Kirk's Kamm or RokJox?
Credit: WyoRockMan
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 2, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
I believe thats the spring loaded version of what we called the 'CMI Swivel O' Death'...
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Mar 2, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
I'm amazed there was more than one of these made. Ray Charles could see it would walk all over.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Mar 2, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
speaking of Moacs, there was another nut way back when with similar sharp taper and useful in certain rock types, I think they were called Seneca's.

They were all sold out when I tried to get some, but I made my own similar versions at the Dartmouth machine shop in 1978

Nuts handmade by John Middendorf at Dartmouth College in 1978
Nuts handmade by John Middendorf at Dartmouth College in 1978
Credit: deuce4
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:23am PT
Is this a CMI Kirk's Kamm or a RokJox? If the latter was that also by CMI?
If you want to be the most accurate possible, it is a CMI RoKJoX, made in 1987.

speaking of Moacs, there was another nut way back when with similar sharp taper and useful in certain rock types, I think they were called Seneca's.
John, if I am not mistaken, the real name of Seneca's is Dual Taper Wedge or Steve's Stone. They predate the Chouinard Stopper by one year.
These "A5" handmade "Seneca's" are just splendid...
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
Here is a collection of Sliders I have been hanging on to. I would like to know what I have if anyone out there can help.

two different kind of sliders  the 4 on the right are numbered 0-3. <br/>
...
two different kind of sliders the 4 on the right are numbered 0-3.
The 3 on the left are stamped DB. ed Quickies 1987
Rollers with no markings? <br/>
ed. GoPro Rock and rollers. 1987 Thanks St...
Rollers with no markings?
ed. GoPro Rock and rollers. 1987 Thanks Stephane
Metolius Sliders with brass and lead/tin?? numbered 1-4
Metolius Sliders with brass and lead/tin?? numbered 1-4
the 2 on the left say Lowe/Byrne. The Yellow is a #1 and is stamped ma...
the 2 on the left say Lowe/Byrne. The Yellow is a #1 and is stamped made in Korea, the blue is a #3 and has R.O.K stamped on the back.
The one in the middle is a #3 and has Lowe/Byrne stamped on the trigger thumb brace.
The 2 on the right are Trango #1

Thanks
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
Quickies on the top and Rock N Rollers second from the top if I am not mistaken. I'd have to pull out a few from my collection to distinguish the Quickies from the Not So Quickies.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:12am PT
H : On your first picture, the 3 Quickies on the left are pre-production models. “DB” stands for Don Best. I would love to get them in my collection. Unfortunately, I can’t spend any money for them. Sorry H…:-(
D. BEST MOUNTAINEERING Quickies 1st generation &#40;1986&#41; & 2nd ge...
D. BEST MOUNTAINEERING Quickies 1st generation (1986) & 2nd generation (1987)
Credit: nutstory
Edit: Your GO PRO Rock'n Rollers (Bravo Steve!) are 2nd generation (1987)
GO PRO Rock'n Rollers 1st generation &#40;1986&#41; & 2nd generation &#40;1987&#41;
GO PRO Rock'n Rollers 1st generation (1986) & 2nd generation (1987)
Credit: nutstory
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Maestro Pennequin- Where does Gendarme Nuts fit into the nomenclature?

Are they Gendarme Dual Taper Wedges?

The fellow who generously sent me a beautiful set of said Wedges also sent me a classic Moac nut and pointed out that Markwell simply cut the Moac in half to yield the design with very little other modification.

Harrison- Check your email
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:01am PT
John [Middendorf], if I am not mistaken, the real name of Seneca's [Gendarme Nut] is Dual Taper Wedge or Steve's Stone. They predate the Chouinard Stopper by one year.
Steve, does the post above reply to your question?
The fellow who generously sent me a beautiful set of said Wedges also sent me a classic Moac nut and pointed out that Markwell simply cut the Moac in half to yield the design with very little other modification.
Absolutely exact!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:13am PT
Will I be able to retire by selling my set of Charlie Porter sliders?
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:18am PT
No... especially if you are a generous benefactor :-) Only the number 5 is missing here...
PORTER ENGINEERING nuts
PORTER ENGINEERING nuts
Credit: nutstory

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:23am PT
Ah, mon petit chou, vous ne disposez pas d'un ensemble? Hmmmm.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:24am PT
What a "lovely" French language...
I would have written: "Ah, mon cher ami, vous ne possédait pas le jeu complet? Hum..."
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Reilly- I'd like to manage your retirement if you would let me fondle your portfolio.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:32am PT
I thought a number five was among the ones I sent...?
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:40am PT
No Joseph, but you did so much for me at that time. Without you (and David) the "Porter Nuts Museum" would not exist...
PORTER ENGINEERING #4, #5 & #6
PORTER ENGINEERING #4, #5 & #6
Credit: nutstory
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2016 - 11:20am PT
Nutstory, excusez-moi, je sais que mon français est horrible.
La femme est française, pas moi! ;-)
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
Thanks for the info guys.

How about the the year of the Metolius and Lowe sliders? Any help there?


Here are some cams:
Rob Orvitz From Berkeley I beleive
Rob Orvitz From Berkeley I beleive
1st generation Alien?
1st generation Alien?
Wild Country Flexible Friend / Technical Friend #1½ &#40;1988&#41;. Ax...
Wild Country Flexible Friend / Technical Friend #1½ (1988). Axle with low profile end-screws. ed. thanks Stephane
Bob Ortivetz and friends
Bob Ortivetz and friends
Green sling shaft has a rounded edge 1st gen friend 86. 2nd from left ...
Green sling shaft has a rounded edge 1st gen friend 86. 2nd from left is a "friend" made by Malcolm Matheson from Oz, Blue sling 2nd gen WC friend. Purple sling is a HB year? What do you think?

I am pretty sure these are early cams. Any help would be great.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 12:37am PT
Rigged west coast.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 12, 2016 - 12:46am PT
1st and 2nd photograph:
Associate ½ made by Dave Altman, Rob Oravetz and Eben Stromquist (mid eighties). A real treasure…
3rd photograph:
Colorado Custom Hardware Alien 1st generation (1987)
4th photograph:
Wild Country Flexible Friend / Technical Friend #1½ (1988). Axle with low profile end-screws.
5th photograph:
Large cam device with rigid stem #6 made by Dave Altman, Rob Oravetz and Eben Stromquist (mid eighties).
6th photograph (left to right):
- Wild Country Friend #½ 1st generation (1986) thick titanium stem.
- Custom made ‘Friend-like” #0.75 by a long time valley climber and journeyman machinist. I am sorry, I do not know more about this cam (I have a similar sample).
- Wild Country Friend #½ 2nd generation (1986, yes!) thin titanium stem.
- HB Cam #½ 2nd generation (1982) made by Malcolm Matheson (aka Horsham Bruce) in Australia.
- Wild Country Friend #1 (1978) thin trigger bar and flat thin machine nuts.

Without the devices in hand I am not 100% sure…

Edit: The Metolius Sliders hit the market in 1983.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 05:30am PT
All these are great and I'm glad I was able to help out yours and the other collections. This is also a pretty cool aspect of the internet, that all our various flotsam and detritus can surface to be swept up and preserved. I don't have the discipline or time for it, but am thankful guys like you, Marty, Steve, Jeff, Ken, and Gary do have such a passion for it. Otherwise it would be a shame to lose track and sight of this aspect of climbing's history and heritage.

I'd also definitely encourage others to to keep their eyes open for such treasures and contribute whatever they can to these great collections.

And here's to you guys thinking about how and where your collections and legacies will end up residing over the long haul such that the public will gain access in either permanent and / or traveling exhibits.
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Mar 12, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Thank you Stephane for your id of these cams. Your wealth of knowledge is invaluble.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 14, 2016 - 01:37am PT
Left to right: Micro 1/2, Steve Jones "Friend" 3/4 (1982/1983), unknown "Friend" 3/4 (similar to H's device), Wild Country Friend 1/2 (1st generation, 1986), Wild Country Friend 1/2 (2nd generation, 1986).
Left to right: Micro 1/2, Steve Jones "Friend" 3/4 &#40;1982/1983&#41;...
Left to right: Micro 1/2, Steve Jones "Friend" 3/4 (1982/1983), unknown "Friend" 3/4, Wild Country Friend 1/2 (1st generation, 1986), Wild Country Friend 1/2 (2nd generation, 1986).
Credit: nutstory
Your Associate truly would be an awesome addition to this collection...
On the left: Micro ½  <br/>
On the right: Steve Jones “Friend” ¾ <br/>
On the left: Micro ½
On the right: Steve Jones “Friend” ¾

Credit: nutstory
Naitch

climber
Blue Ridge Mts, Shenandoah River
Mar 15, 2016 - 05:16am PT
I know the title of the thread is "Old mystery pro" but what about "new mystery pro"?

My climbing partner saw this on an ice climbing list. Not being an ice climber I have no idea what they are? Anybody???

Credit: Naitch
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Mar 15, 2016 - 06:12am PT
No matter old or new, "mystery" is the "key word"...
I suspect that these are Salewa Quick Screw.
http://www.salewa.com/en/quick-screw.html
Naitch

climber
Blue Ridge Mts, Shenandoah River
Mar 15, 2016 - 06:27am PT
Thanks!
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Mar 15, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
I just have to say this has been a great learning experience for me. I just went through the Two Shipley cams for sale post:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=809995&tn=100
It was fasinating. Thanks Joe, Marty and Stephane for all you do.

My Associate I think is a 3/4. It measures 1"and 5/8 when deployed.
My "unknown" friend is a little different from yours Stephane only by an aditional hole between the head and trigger? The head measures 1 1/8 and 5/8 deployed.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Apr 15, 2016 - 09:41am PT
Is there anybody here who could help me to identify this mysterious cam…?
Ukraine, Czech Republic, Canada, Korea…?
I must confess that I cannot make the job...:-(
"Ian's mystery cam"
"Ian's mystery cam"
Credit: Ian Parsons
Chossboss

Trad climber
The GNAR
Apr 15, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
Early model flexible friend?
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Apr 16, 2016 - 12:11am PT
Early model flexible friend?
No Chossboss. I have samples of all the generations of the Wild Country Flexible-Technical Friends (I have even seen the prototypes at the factory in 1996), so I suspect that this cam is just a beautiful duplicate...
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Aug 15, 2016 - 07:47am PT

Salewa carabiner tested and extremely light. Is it hollow?

Salewa carabiner
Salewa carabiner
Credit: Marlow
Salewa carabiner
Salewa carabiner
Credit: Marlow
life is a bivouac

Trad climber
Bishop
Aug 15, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Hello, Marlow,
Your 'biner is very similar to the R. Robbins hollow 'biners he sold in the mid '70s. His tested @ 3100 lbs. and looks the same except he had his name stamped on the long body side. Yes, indeed they were hollow.
Cheers! Russ
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 15, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
This model Salewa hollow biner was shown in a 1978 ad in Mountain magazine.
Ad in Mountain Magazine Jan 1978.  Only ad I could find for Robbins Ho...
Ad in Mountain Magazine Jan 1978. Only ad I could find for Robbins Hollow carabiners in Mountain or Off Belay.
Credit: Fritz
The R ROBBINS / Salewa hollow biners of 1978 were ovals (though otherwise very similar).
hollow Robbins/Salewa carabiner on bottom, solid one on top
hollow Robbins/Salewa carabiner on bottom, solid one on top
Credit: Fritz
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1830238/Robbins-Salewa-hollow-carabiners
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
Aug 15, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
Credit: originalpmac

Credit: originalpmac

Worlds largest piton. Any one know what it is?

I have a vague idea.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Aug 15, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
Marlow! Per your question & Russ's comment, Salewa made two "ultralight" (for the time) biners back around 1978. Robbins imported both of them with his name on them instead of Salewa.

The larger diameter one was hollow, & I think the skinnier one was solid.

Here's a Mountain magazine ad from 1/1978 that shows the Salewa hollow biner, and mentions it is available in the U.S.

Credit: Fritz

And here's my photo of both Robbins/Salewa Biners. The hollow one is at bottom.

Credit: Fritz
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Aug 15, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
^ re large piton up thread:

Any one know what it is?

It's Worlds largest homemade piton.. : )
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Aug 15, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
I think some of the pitons fashioned for the FA of the Nose are certainly bigger than that one.

I agree with the Gnomes assessment below that you are looking at gate hardware and likely not a piton at all.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 15, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
I hate the location of the learn more tab.....!

A Hinge part?

I think it looks like a 'female' (shackle style, primitive gate/Barn door) Stockade hinge part, The two holes used to bolt it to the frame of a structure. Oriented horizontally, to provide a capture point for a 'male' peg.

Or a eastern block bolt the Eye of the thing to hold a cable holding a religious icon in place, like on the European summits.
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Aug 15, 2016 - 10:24pm PT

Gnome you beat me to the answer. I was going to say a homemade barn door hinge, but many of them are not angled like a piton. I do however have a few beefy pitons that were made/used to tie logs together when running them down the river in the old logging days.

Loggers pitons
Loggers pitons
Credit: karabin museum
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Aug 16, 2016 - 09:37am PT

Thanks to Russ, Clint and Fritz.

From your comments and photos, I think there is reason to conclude as I have done below:

Salewa hollow carabiner
Salewa hollow carabiner
Credit: Marlow
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 16, 2016 - 10:40am PT
That hollow Robbins biner should have a visible seam at both ends of the gate, where the aluminum tubing was smashed flat.

Forming aluminum tubing into a biner, without buckling and collapsing it near the tight bends, was probably a difficult magic trick.


JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 16, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
Incidentally, climbing equipment has now made the big time. I was watching "How It's Made" on the Science Channel several months ago, and one of the episodes showed the manufacture of 'biners and cams.

John
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 4, 2016 - 08:18am PT

Still a mystery to me - CCB gear - Who made the gear? Where was it made?

Here's some old CCB Eckenstein crampons

CCB Eckenstein crampons
CCB Eckenstein crampons
Credit: Marlow
Credit: Marlow

CCB also made ice axes and pitons.

These crampons were sold by Christen, Bern.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 4, 2016 - 10:15am PT
Splendid question Marlow!

I have been wondering the same about CCB and haven't been able to find much.

As Switzerland made it through WW II without a lot of disruption it would seem that information would be available since they were producing pitons at least well into the 1960s. That they were producing "Eckenstein" stamped crampons puts their production at least as far back as the 1930s. It seems that the Eckenstein designation disappeared from crampons as soon as Grivel began to produce theirs from better steel and made available a much lighter crampon and one with front points.

You are very good at finding information so I am surprised that you are running into the same problems that I have experienced.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 4, 2016 - 11:31am PT

Steve.

I have been searching for CCB information without finding much, and what I find is constructively confusing. One website mentions "CCB Freres Sports" (sounds French or Swiss). The name CCB Freres was used connected to an ice axe carrying the name "Marke Mischabel" on one side and "CCB" on the other (and not the word Freres - "freres" = "brothers"). I have seen the same ice axe model sold three or four times on the web, so it is quite common. Marke Mischabel was normally produced by "Gebr. Andenmatten" (Swiss). The "CCB Marke Mischabel" ice axe was believed to have been produced 1945-1950. Which makes me think that the CCB Eckenstein crampons could also have been produced as late as 1945-1950.

One eBay seller sold CCB as being produced in Britain.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 4, 2016 - 11:39am PT
I am pretty sure the CCB name is based in Switzerland which certainly works with Mischabel.

CCB was imported by Abercrombie and Fitch as best I can determine without any catalogs as their pitons were available on the east coast of the US before WW II based on anecdotal evidence with Sporthaus Schuster being the main competitor. If you were able to find CCB hardware being sold by Sporthaus Schuster alongside their own hardware that would cast some doubt on the Abercrombie and Fitch connection. I haven't seen CCB in the many early catalogs that you have so wonderfully posted.

Have you found any evidence of CCB away from climbing equipment as many of these blacksmith shops and foundrys seem to produce gear as a small part of their commercial offerings?
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 4, 2016 - 11:46am PT

Steve

I have seen many old Sporthaus Fritsch pitons being sold by American sellers. When were these pitons imported to America? And who imported them?

Were they imported in competition with Sporthaus Schuster and CCB?

I have not seen any other CCB items than CCB climbing gear, but that is also what I have been looking for. I will keep my eyes and mind open.

CCB could be a pure seller and not a producer or a combined producer and seller.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 4, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
CCB pitons are distinct from the others and seem to have been made independently of the other producers. I have been trying to trace the importers of this early European hardware as best I can and that requires catalogs to be definitve.

CCB was imported by Sports Chalet in the 1960s. During the 1940s I think that Sportshaus Schuster hardware was ordered fromEeurope.

Early accounts of ascents like the Higher Cathedral Spire mention waiting for hardware orders to arrive which makes me think that many climbers were still ordering from overseas before WW II.

The earliest issues of Summit magazine have lists of equipment suppliers/importers and very few existed in the US. Abercrombie and Fitch was one of them but again I have no catalogs to verify what they were bringing in.

I collect a lot of this early hardware in hopes of making a sensible timeline for the availability of it in the US with hopes of being able to coordinate with European suppliers.

After WW II lots of the classic military surplus hardware became readily available but climbers needed more than these four sizes and designs and importing began in earnest as the number of retailers began to expand to fill the demand. The Swiss companies and Sporthaus Schuster were the main suppliers since they weren't thrown backwards as much during the war.
kingtut

Social climber
carmel, ca
Sep 4, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
"jumping green Chinese crud, I've got a saber up my ass!"

comes to mind. Thanks TM Herbert.

You realize you are old...when you recognize 80% of the old crap in this thread, have used it extensively, clipped a fixed one, or threw it out as junk lol. And youts today look at it like a Model T on display at the Smithsonian.

Jesus, my old trusties are museum pieces :(.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 4, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
KINGTUT<
. . . . . . .(?sic)
You realize you are old...when you recognize 80% of the old crap in this thread, have used it extensively, clipped a fixed one, or threw it out as junk lol. And youts today look at it like a Model T on display at the Smithsonian.

Jesus, my old trusties are museum pieces :(.
yup mine too!
you would not believe the attitude, some climbers have to my Gear as I pass the bolted top roping stations by protecting the cracks, at the same places, with cams older than they are.
that and the looks!
Ive Passed around my #1 Original (pre US distribution) Wild Country Friends, Like it was Show and tell.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 4, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
I laid out a nice sampling of this older hardware at the first Oakdale Climbers Festival in 2012 and have acquired quite a bit since then.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1902674/Announcing-The-Oakdale-Climbers-Festival-10-26-10-28-2012
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 4, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Perhaps
CCB = C. Christen, Bern (town in Switzerland)
Where the person's first name started with C and Christen was their last name.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 4, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
Solid possibility Clint.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 5, 2016 - 10:47am PT

Searching around, I found one CCB Willisch ice axe and one CCB Schild ice axe. Both Willisch and Schild are old Swiss ice axe smiths. See the CCB Schild ice axe below.

This makes me think that CCB was mainly a seller (Sport/"Sporthaus") and not a smith.

I have many times seen the logo "Christen, Bern" on ice axes. One of them was a Bhend, Grindewald.

All items I have seen carrying the name "Christen, Bern" have been old items, and all items carrying the name CCB have been younger items.

I think I will follow Clint in his hypothesis:
 There may be a connection between the name "Christen, Bern" and the name CCB
 CCB may be the moderne form/name/logo for "Christen, Bern"

Ice axe - CCB Schild
Ice axe - CCB Schild
Ice axe - CCB Schild
Ice axe - CCB Schild
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Sep 5, 2016 - 04:17pm PT

CCB pitons, c.mid 1950s?, 1960s? <br/>
- Switzerland
CCB pitons, c.mid 1950s?, 1960s?
- Switzerland
Credit: karabin museum
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Marlow- What do you know about Hupfauf gear? I believe I have the spelling correct.

I had a nice selection of pitons that I thought were CCB as they resembled their offerings closely and were from Switzerland. I laid them out at the first Oakdale Climbers Festival as such only to find out later that they came from Hupfauf by comparing stamp lettering.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 6, 2016 - 10:52am PT

Steve.

Hupfauf, Einsiedeln

Hupfauf were blacksmiths who started a factory in Einsiedeln, Switzerland. The first generation was Anton Hupfauf (1871-1916). The second generation was son Anton Hupfauf (1908-1993)

Anton the first was born in Fulpmes in the Tyrol region of Austria. After being trained as a blacksmith, he moved to Einsiedeln in Switzerland in 1898, and started as a blacksmith.

Initially the production was mainly farming tools and knives, but he gradually started to make ice axes and crampons. The products were exported to other countries. He won the gold medal in the Turin World's Fair, Italy in 1911. Founder Anton Hupfauf passed away because of an accident in 1916.

Until the second generation was old enough to manage the factory, a man named Melchior Ochsner, one of the employees, took over the management. In 1924 they possibly opened a shop and started to sell metal products and household goods there in addition to the factory.

Second generation Anton Hupfauf learned metal processing in Fulpmes Technical College in his father's hometown Fulpmes (Fulpmes Technical College). He graduated from there in 1926, and took over his father's factory in 1930.

Ice axes and crampons continued to be exported to foreign countries. During the Second World War they also delivered equipment to the army.

At most the factory had 15 employees. I think Hupfauf must have been very successful at their time. I have seen a catalogue from the 1920s where they had several ice axe lengths to choose among – 1, 2, 2,5, 3, 3,5, 4, 4,5, 5, 5,5, 6 and 7 and you could get the ice axe in every shaft length you wanted. They sold several models – Prima, Lion mark, and Marke Tödi. At least Prima and Lion mark had sub-catogories of axes – Grindelwald model, Walliser model, Swiss model. The ice axes are among the most common old axes that you find on the web today. The Hupfauf factory was closed after the war in 1948.

Hupfauf, Einsiedeln
Hupfauf, Einsiedeln
Credit: Marlow

Einsiedeln Town is located at the northern foot of the Swiss alps, 30 km southeast of Zurich and 30 km from Luzern. The meaning of the name Einsiedeln is said to be “to live as a hermit”. There is an old Benedictiner monastry in the town. It is a famous pilgrimage site.

Main source: Thanks to nirayama.com and Mr. Suwabe.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 6, 2016 - 11:17am PT
Thanks Marlow.

So much for my thought that Hupfauf was the primary piton maker for CCB if they closed in 1948. Perhaps some of their smiths kept making pitons for CCB after that date. The mystery continues...
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 6, 2016 - 11:24am PT

Steve

If I have understood this right, the shop was open until 1979, many years after the factory was closed.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 6, 2016 - 11:38am PT
I wonder if Mr. Suwabe and Mr. Nirayama (?)would like to join this conversation?
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 6, 2016 - 11:49am PT

Or Nobi? Nobi knows Mr. Suwabe.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 6, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
Marlow- If you are in contact with these gentlemen please see if they would be interested in joining the conversation as they obviously are very informed.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 6, 2016 - 12:50pm PT

Nobi is sometimes posting on the historical climbing gear threads. He will post if he wants to.

Here is a link to the story about the first start of the Japanese-Swiss climbing connection (There is also an American connection): http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2657087&msg=2657087#msg2657087
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 1, 2016 - 11:22am PT

Some older Quickdraws.

Cassin carabiners. The green-yellow slings - NeviSport Scotland. The m...
Cassin carabiners. The green-yellow slings - NeviSport Scotland. The multicoloured slings are possibly self-made.

The carabiners are Cassin models.
The green-yellow slings are carrying the NeviSport Scotland logo.
The multi-coloured slings are possibly self-made.


NeviSport, Scotland

Founded in 1970 by a pair of highland climbers and outdoor instructors Ian A Sykes MBE and Ian D Sutherland, Nevisport (a ‘wee climbing shop’) started life with money saved by Sykes (a former member of the RAF Mountain Rescue Team) while serving as a base commander in the Falkland Islands on the British Antarctic Survey.

The first Nevisport occupied a small store at the west end of Fort William’s high street and was sustained financially during its first year by Sutherland, who continued to work full-time elsewhere while Sykes ran the shop day to day. Such was the success of the fledgling company it was soon forced to relocate to larger premises and subsequently opened a second store in Glasgow in 1974.

By the spring of 1982 Nevisport had moved its headquarters into a purpose built retail unit at the end of Fort William’s high street which remains the focal point of the town centre to this day and is still the company’s flagship store. Nevisport Fort William also incorporates a café and bar well used by walkers and climbers over the years as well as a gift shop catering for tourists. During the early 1990s the company moved into Edinburgh and also opened what is the UK’s highest outdoor shop on the western slopes of Aonach Mor at the top of the gondola at the Nevis Range ski centre. From the front door of what is arguably Britain’s only true ‘mountain’ shop, hardy visitors can ride one of the world’s best downhill mountain bike tracks, or ski Nevis Range’s fearsome Back Corries. Those looking for a slightly more sedate activity can also send a postcard from Britain’s highest post box!

In 1997 Nevisport continued its expansion by acquiring an English outdoor chain called Wilderness Ways and an independent store by the name of Nick Estcourts. Shortly afterwards Clive Rowland’s store in Aviemore and Marshall’s in Aberdeen were welcomed on board too, making Nevisport one of the biggest outdoor companies in the northern half of the UK.

Since those early days Nevisport has grown into one of the country’s leading outdoor retailers and in 2004 Sykes and Sutherland retired, leaving Nevisport as an established household name with stores stretching from Inverness in the north to Central England in the south.

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 5, 2016 - 09:02am PT

Kush; made by Mike Cuaz under the brand name The Blue Light. Mike has ...
Kush; made by Mike Cuaz under the brand name The Blue Light. Mike has a little workshop in Sisteron. (Nutstory's information)
Credit: Marlow

This gear was sold under the name Klemmgeräte Unikate. If Unikate is their name or just to tell us that they are unique, I don't know. The seller had bought them in Sisterone, France, some years ago. I have seen this gear once before, posted by Nutstory on ST. The way they work is similar to the way the Edelrid Bivo works.

Edelrid Bivo &#40;second generation&#41;.
Edelrid Bivo (second generation).
Credit: Marlow
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 7, 2016 - 06:14am PT
Marlow: the three camming devices on your first photograph are Kush; made by Mike Cuaz under the brand name The Blue Light. Mike has a little workshop in Sisteron, France.
The cam on your second photograph is an Edelrid Bivo, second generation.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 7, 2016 - 07:50am PT
Yikes! No wonder they have to come to the States to learn to crack climb.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 7, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Mike Cuaz (The Blue Light) in his workshop in Sisteron.
http://vimeo.com/29549414
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 7, 2016 - 09:26am PT

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Nutstory. Much appreciated!
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 8, 2016 - 12:04am PT
Marlow, here are some more goodies for you...;-)
The Blue Light business card includes the Kush
The Blue Light business card includes the Kush
Credit: nutstory
The Blue Light Kush info sheet with Mike Cuaz' hand-writing
The Blue Light Kush info sheet with Mike Cuaz' hand-writing
Credit: nutstory
The Blue Light more recent publication
The Blue Light more recent publication
Credit: nutstory
The Blue Light other protections
The Blue Light other protections
Credit: nutstory
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 8, 2016 - 12:16am PT

Very cool... incredible collection...
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Oct 8, 2016 - 11:10am PT
The Blue Light items in the Karabin Museum came through Stephane years ago. My Kush compared to the Kush in Marlows photo has additional pull loops added between the finger and thumb triggers. The older design of the Kush has a extra steel tip added to give longer life to the device. I believe Mike Cuaz recreated his older style Kush device for Stephane and the Karabin Museum. I especially love the Kush devices because of how many different pieces were needed to make one device. A true labor of craftsmanship!

Cheers Stephane!


Esus and Rips <br/>
- The Blue Light <br/>
from: Stephane Pennequin
Esus and Rips
- The Blue Light
from: Stephane Pennequin
Credit: karabin museum
Kush <br/>
- The Blue Light <br/>
from: Stephane Pennequin
Kush
- The Blue Light
from: Stephane Pennequin
Credit: karabin museum
Kush, older design <br/>
- The Blue Light <br/>
from: Stephane Pennequin
Kush, older design
- The Blue Light
from: Stephane Pennequin
Credit: karabin museum
ClimbingOn

Trad climber
NY
Oct 15, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
Who made this little camhook? No markings on it and a very different design.

camhook 1
camhook 1
Credit: ClimbingOn

camhook 2
camhook 2
Credit: ClimbingOn
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Oct 16, 2016 - 12:28am PT
Sisteron is a fun little town to base out of for some climbing...

Mike Cuaz at the Blue Light in Sisteron
Mike Cuaz at the Blue Light in Sisteron
Credit: Brian in SLC
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Oct 19, 2016 - 06:25am PT


ClimbingOn - The small cam hook is a Yellow Dragon made by Moab Adventure Outfitters in Utah, Circa late 1990s. A Red Dragon hook was also created.

Red Dragon, Yellow Dragon cam hook <br/>
- MOAB Adventure Outfitters
Red Dragon, Yellow Dragon cam hook
- MOAB Adventure Outfitters
Credit: karabin museum
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 19, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Credit: thebravecowboy
.
Credit: thebravecowboy
. bitd knifeblade pulled off some obscurity today. anyone able to decipher the stamp? or recognize the embellished C?
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Oct 19, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Looks like a CMI?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 19, 2016 - 08:48pm PT

Yes, CMI.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 19, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
yep you're right Brian! The angled main surface and the embellished C match the bugaboo style CMIS here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/321840/CMI-Pitons-Old-Valley-Dads
Thanks!


Damn Clint is quick!
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Oct 19, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
It doesn't seem like so long ago we might see one of those fixed and be glad it was so new!
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 19, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
ha! my buddy clipped it (screamer and all) and went for it. we were both pretty surprised at how little contact it seemed to have had with the rock when I pulled it with a few taps from a little cobble.
nutstory

climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
Oct 26, 2016 - 05:10am PT
Edelweiss Diablo, designed by Mike Cuaz &#40;The Blue Light&#41;
Edelweiss Diablo, designed by Mike Cuaz (The Blue Light)
Credit: nutstory
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Nov 19, 2016 - 08:16pm PT


Stephane: That Diablo is very sweet!
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Nov 19, 2016 - 08:22pm PT

Question: when did Doug Black start making climbing gear? Doug passed away March 12, 2016 and in Doug’s celebration letter it mentions that Doug was in the Navy then returned to the valley and opened his own welding shop in 1967. Doug is one of the founding members of the Arizona Mountaineering Club which started in 1964. The 1965 Eiger catalog shows Doug Black pitons for sale which specifies stainless steel rings. I have a Doug Black SS ring rap hanger from 1964, hand drill, and rappel rack from later 1960s. Does anybody know when Doug first started climbing and creating climbing gear?

Recently I obtained two first generation Doug Black angle pitons that have galvanized rings and welded ends. This shows that not all Doug Black rings were stainless steel.

Doug Black ring angle pitons, c.early 1960s <br/>
First generation <br/>
- fro...
Doug Black ring angle pitons, c.early 1960s
First generation
- from Wally Vegors
Credit: karabin museum
karabin museum

Trad climber
phoenix, az
Nov 19, 2016 - 08:25pm PT

Doug Black celebration letter


Come Join Us In A celebration of Doug's life .
Wednesday, March 23rd, 2016 from 5pm to 8 pm. at the
American Legion Post # 35 2240 West Chandler Blvd. Chandler, Az. 85224
outdoors at the Garden Pavilion area
( Just West of Dobson Rd. on Chandler Boulevard )

Website: http://www.legionpost35az.org/index.php?id=1
Map: https://goo.gl/maps/qnjx68ywjiz

Dress Casual and come mingle with all of his family and friends. Be sure to bring your best memories, jokes and stories along to share with us in celebration of his life.
There will be free food and beverages available for all and The Mountain Rescue Honor Guard will be performing a bagpipe salute to their fallen member along with other tributes to this great man's life.


Father, Business Owner, Rock Climbing pioneer in the Phoenix area and one of the founding members of the Arizona Mountaineering Club and the Central Arizona Mountain Rescue Association (CAMRA), and avid Sailor, passed away on Saturday, March 12th 2016 in Chandler after a long battle with Alzheimer's Disease. He is survived by his wife, Jeanne, children David Black-Gomes, Thomas “Tom” Black, John Black, Martin “Rand” Black and Susan Falcon as well as 6 Grand children and 4 Great Grand children.

Doug moved to the valley with his parents in 1950 from Minneapolis, MN and later served in the Navy aboard the aircraft carriers USS Hornet and USS Bon Home Richard. He returned to the valley and started his own welding shop in 1967, that specialized in steel stairs and railings and his specialty, custom spiral staircases. Always ready he worked with the 7th step foundation giving ex-convicts that much needed first job after they served their time in Arizona State prison.

Doug was one of the early members of the Arizona Mountaineering Club. He is remembered as a hero that along with other club members, was frequently called upon by Phoenix Fire Dept. to rescue stranded and injured hikers and climbers from Camelback Mtn., Piestewa Peak, Pinnacle Peak and the Superstition wilderness area, in the 60's. They later formed the Central Arizona Mountain Rescue Association (CAMRA) which became a Maricopa County Sheriffs Posse. He helped establish a rock climbing school along with other members of the Arizona Mountaineering club and later the Mountain Rescue Team, training men and women to properly and safely climb for sport. The team trained Phoenix Fire Dept., Pinal County Sheriffs, Grand Canyon Search and Rescue and other agencies in mountain climbing and mountain rescue techniques with CAMRA and he held Officer posts in both CAMRA and the National Mountain Rescue Association and helped to develop some of the technical hardware such as pulley and belay systems used to this day in Mountain Rescue. He brought the idea of using ATV wheels mounted on the stretchers for transporting victims through rugged terrain to the valley after seeing one at a National Mountain Rescue Conference in Washington state and was the first to begin mounting them on stretchers for use here in the valley. They are now standard equipment for Search and Rescue teams everywhere.

As a sailor, Doug bought his first boat while in the Navy and smuggled it on board the Aircraft carrier. He would break it out when they were moored in port and sail around as much as he could. In the 60's the family purchased several sailboats including a Coronado 15' which they regularly sailed on Lake Pleasant. He joined the Arizona Yacht Club (yeah you probably didn't know such a thing existed) and along with his son, John, they raced the boat in regattas at Lake Pleasant with the club.

Doug sold his business and home in 1978 and bought a fully ocean ready Coronado 41' Sailboat in Michigan and sailed it through the Great Lakes, the Erie Canal, down the East coast, through the Gulf of Mexico, The Panama Canal and up the West coast to Ventura Ca.. where he lived and sailed for several years taking trips as far away as Hawaii and British Columbia. He frequently sailed the Channel Islands off the California coast, one of his favorite places. In 1986 he bought land in Steinhatchee, Fl. and moved the boat there. He remained there for 21 years, starting his Wrought Iron company back up and volunteering with the local fire dept. until 2014 when his health brought him back to Arizona to stay with his son, John in Chandler.