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LongAgo

Trad climber
Aug 21, 2011 - 05:04pm PT
Way back on this thread, Karl said:

"I have a perverse desire to do the Hinterland, after doing Galactic Hitchhiker just about every year."

Given all the discussion on the thread of the exact way it might go, I'd be curious if Karl or others went up this summer and gave it a go. Do you Karl or others have any news to report?

Tom Higgins
LongAgo

Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 21, 2011 - 05:38pm PT
I had way too much fun breaking my arm on Zodiac so I'm just getting back on the stone these days

Maybe next year!

Peace

Karl
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Aug 21, 2011 - 07:00pm PT
Higgins on Coonyard, June 15, 1969
Coonyard register
Coonyard register
Credit: guido
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 21, 2011 - 07:32pm PT
P. Gleason on that page, too.
LongAgo

Trad climber
Aug 26, 2011 - 01:08am PT
Karl, hope it was a clean break away from any joint, in which case you are good to go in no time.

Guido, thanks for Coonyard journal info. Looks like I was moaning about getting lost, but can't read it very well. Me wonders where all these registers reside - in attics I guess. Who cares really, though nice to have scans of them on supertopo to bring back old days and enter the cyberspace record forever, or as long as servers last. Thanks again.

Tom Higgins
LongAgo
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Aug 26, 2011 - 11:22am PT
Tom- There exists a vast collection of Registers almost in your own backyard at the Bancroft Library in Berkeley, Mountain Record Collection. Here is a short summary I put up from our 50th anniv climb on Coonyard last fall:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1497580/Coonyard-Pinnacle-50-Years-Later

Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2011 - 06:37pm PT
MIghty-climbed it 4-5 times over the years, two were ascents to the Oasis. Soon after the first ascent, Chouninard, Hempel, Moi and I think Amborn went up and climbed two pitches above Coonyard, Oasis bound. Later Amborn and Foott got within a pitch or two of the Oasis and as you know Kor and Chouinard finished it off. Nice thing about Yvon is he included Foott and Amborn as being on the first ascent when he wrote it up. Bad thing about Yvon is he placed a bolt on the Coonyard route and Amborn later chopped it.

Reilly-See the first ascent Post to get the origin of Coonyard.

bvd-whoa, solo on Coonyard, that is pretty friggin awesome. I was far too much of a lightweight to try any solo games on hard friction. I know Simon soloed Marginal and even that is difficult for me to imagine. The thing about friction is once you start to slide it is difficult after the momentum has built up to stop.

Roger-That is most of the Register I believe. There were some loose pages if I remember and they were not included in the batch. I think the Register was lost for a while and someone put it back up.

Register- The largest collection of Registers of Cal climbs and peaks is part of the Mountain Record Section at the Bancroft Library at UC Berkeley. Last summer Kali and I spent an afternoon going through some choice boxes. Almost got kicked out because we were oohing and ahing too loud and the serious head librarian was not impressed. Serious place with high security and slow response but on the whole very accommodating people. I had the library copy via stat the Coonyard Register plus Rixons's Pinnacle, Phantom Pinnacle, El Cap, Glacier Point Apron, Fairview Dome, Lost Arrow Tip and the Royal Arches. It took months to get this completed and they provided the stats on microfilm. Fortunately UC Santa Cruz has a brand new scanner that will scan direct from the microfilm to disk for free! IThe copying at the Bancroft was not cheap, something like $275 ............

I had to spend 3-4 hours on the Coonyard Register with Photoshop to make it presentable and readable. Somebody like maestro Haan could turn it into an art piece.

I am convinced the way to handle this reproduction would be to film a Register. You can set it up so you can do the photo work yourself at the Library. Film would maintain the mood of the paper and give a more realistic presentation of the actual writing. Filming would also be less damaging to the handling of the Registers. Some of these are very very delicate and they had go go to the Restoration Dept before they would copy them. Copying is more traumatic than filming.

Wouldn't it be fantastic to have all of the Bancroft Register Collection on film. This would be a massive job but certainly doable. Then everyone would have access to these historical gems. Ken could have all the data on DVD for the future Yosemite Collection and they could even be made available online.

The AAC also has a significant collection of Registers.

Perhaps we should put together a project to raise enough dinero to have this accomplished? Maybe Ed or someone else in the area wold be interested. Some of these Registers go back to the turn of the century! Not a small project but an immensely worthy one.

I'm in.

As a side note Bonnie Kamps offered to assist in this endeavor but since I am in NZ most of the year it would be impossible for me to contribute much time.
LongAgo

Trad climber
Aug 27, 2011 - 01:28am PT
Guido,

Having gone to CAL, I knew about the B. Library and remember reading the Breen Donner Party diary there (under glass) years ago. Had no idea they had registers. So let me get this straight. You say, "I had the library copy via stat the Coonyard Register plus Rixons's Pinnacle, Phantom Pinnacle..." So they go to microfilm for a fee, then you can go to digital from microfilm, in your case for free from UC Santa Cruz. Guess any commercial outfit could do transfer too, e.g. Kinkos. Several issues:

 Sounds like B. Library is OK with copying project and may do the whole batch upon request and with proper fee, but don't they need to know it is a public interest project, not commercial enterprise or do they care?

 Seems a perfect project for AAC so the digital registers could wind up in their library and on line. While I'm a member, I have no particular connections or clout (well, someone might answer my e-mail remembering me from way back when). In any case, someone there should be approached, and if they agree, next step would be setting up a donation fund to help out, I would think. I'd sure donate. AAC seem right for the lead? Know anyone there to approach?

Tom Higgins
LongAgo
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Aug 27, 2011 - 01:02pm PT
Tom


"So they go to microfilm for a fee, then you can go to digital from microfilm, in your case for free from UC Santa Cruz. Guess any commercial outfit could do transfer too, e.g. Kinkos. Several issues:"

Yes except the proper way to maintain realistic visual would be to film them and that is ok with the BL under their guidelines which are not too strict in that manner. In other words, an individual from outside the library can come in and set up to photograph the Registers.Would be prohibitively expensive to have the BL perform this task. Photostatting robs them of the archival mood of the time.


"Sounds like B. Library is OK with copying project and may do the whole batch upon request and with proper fee, but don't they need to know it is a public interest project, not commercial enterprise or do they care?"

Correct as the BL has strict guidelines on their use and is quite territorial over the Registers, not rightly so I believe. Most of the Registers came from the Sierra Club and few from continuing donations. There they sit in boxes in the basement.

"Seems a perfect project for AAC so the digital registers could wind up in their library and be available online. While I'm a member, I have no particular connections or clout (well, someone might answer my e-mail remembering me from way back when). In any case, someone there should be approached, and if they agree, next step would be setting up a donation fund to help out, I would think. I'd sure donate. AAC seem right for the lead? Know anyone there to approach?"

Seems like a logical idea to me at this point. AAC has a great website, has the heritage and political clout that the BL would respect and is well established. The transfer would be expensive but not outrageous and a Donation Fund seems to be the logical mode to accomplish this. Donini would be the one to recc someone in the AAC to contact on this.

Probably best we start another Topic Thread so we don't rob Hall of Mirrros too much of all the fun input on this site.








klk

Trad climber
cali
Aug 27, 2011 - 01:24pm PT
@guido and tom:

the reproduction of material of any sort that is in The Bancroft is subject to the restrictions in both copyright law (for relevant material) and the terms of the donation. with many large collections, the donor-- and not the library --retains copyright/permissions control over the donated material.

what the library and its users can do with the registers and any repros of their contents, will be governed first by the terms of that agreement. the library typically tries to negotiate donations with the broadest possible terms of use, but many collections typically limit the creation (and thus potential circulation) of reproductions. others will charge by image, not just for the labor involved in copying, but also for each use. and the agreements can vary widely in terms of use.

i have worked in the sierra club collection, but as i havent yet used any of the images in publications, i'm not familiar with the terms of that agreement. you can ask the librarians and they can tell you.

for images not bound by donor/collection agreements, the standard rule of the thumb (at the bancroft and other archives) is to label or credit each image: "Courtesy of The Bancroft Library."

The B has done a series of extensive (and in some cases, pioneering) digitization projects and is always hoping to do more. but that depends on funding. if folks wanted the registers digitized and on the web, the first thing is to find out if the current terms of the donation allow for that sort of reproduction. the next step would be to organize the fundraising. it's way more expensive than you might think. the sort of let's-get-drunk-and-scan-some-of-our-old-slides-on-this-random-deal-i-bought-on-the-web crowd sourcing that we do here all the time isn't going to happen at a serious research library.

i've written a bit about the issue here:
http://alpinehistory.com/2010/04/yosemites-first/


and yes, guido, the easiest way to copy things like those summit registers is simply to photograph them, assuming the donation's terms of use allow that. the industry standard for those sort of images, btw, is TIFF rather than JPEG.

The B already has stacks of stuff digitized, by the way. Most of the finding aids are online, and there are large collections of digital images on various topics already up, including (iirc), parts of the SC Collection. That Collection includes not only summit registers but correspondence, meeting memoranda, and a related series of transcribed oral interviews with many of the principals.

The Bancroft, for what it's worth, has a reputation for being not only one of the best archival libraries in North America, but also for being one of the friendliest and most accessible. Just try doing a similar excursion at The Huntington LIbrary or even SPecial Collections at UCLA and see what that experience is like, heh.
LongAgo

Trad climber
Aug 27, 2011 - 05:18pm PT
OK, I started a thread on "digitizing summit registers" as the subject seems to deserve discussion separate from this thread. See:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1592918/Digitizing-Summit-Registers-For-Web-Access

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Aug 27, 2011 - 05:56pm PT
"The rock is so polished that old EBs would literally make squeaking noises.:









So did the old Sportivas. That was always disconcerting to me.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 27, 2011 - 06:31pm PT
The FA of “The Token,” a one-pitch thin slab on The Apron between Chiropodist’s Shop and Ephemeral Clog Dance, gives voice to the “take no prisoners” ethic Scott developed after the HOM.

did the token in '87 with the ex. felt like 12a to me. I thought it was a Bob Gaines route?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 29, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
Karl, hope it was a clean break away from any joint, in which case you are good to go in no time.

Good news, Away from the joint

Bad news, Plate and 8 screws nailing it all together.

Cast is off and I'm leading 5.8 or so, low angle!

Peace

Karl
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 21, 2011 - 05:16pm PT
Info on the 3rd ascent, by Alex Honnold:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1641757/Hall-of-Mirrors
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jan 2, 2014 - 11:46pm PT
Slab bump

Evel

Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
Jan 3, 2014 - 01:34am PT
I'm fairly certain that Woodward and my pal the Late Chris Purnell did the FA of the complete route to the rim. Late 80s/early 90s.
AlanDoak

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 21, 2014 - 03:20pm PT
Here's a trip report from a weekend were I dropped in from the top and micro-traxed some of the pitches:

http://www.supertopo.com/tripreport/tripreport.php?articleid=12578&dpid=Ojg5OzglICMrJA,,&dpid=Ojg5OzkoIiQlJg,,&dpid=Ojg5OzgiICMkJg,,&dpid=Ojg5OzkoIiQlJg,,&dpid=Ojg5OzglICMrJA,,&dpid=Ojg5OzglICMrJA,,&dpid=Ojg5OzggIyYiIw,,

What an awesome route, can't wait to get back on it.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 22, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
I was about to say that you should move your TR over to this thread for continuity.

So Honnold did it? Did he have anything to say? I remember him saying that Southern Belle was no big deal (now).

There are square miles of crackles rock in Yosemite that are just sitting there waiting to be climbed. They don't have drill stances, so the only way that they will get done is top down. At this point in time, I dunno why anyone would get their panties in a wad over that style. Most of the free El Cap routes have seen some amount of work from the top down. The exception being the Muir, as far as I know.

People got so upset over Growing Up on SFHD. Twenty years from now people will laugh at that.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 22, 2014 - 03:46pm PT
So Honnold did it? Did he have anything to say?
Yes. Click on the link in the post 4 above this and scroll about halfway down the page.

There are square miles of crackles rock in Yosemite that are just sitting there waiting to be climbed. They don't have drill stances, so the only way that they will get done is top down.
That was one of Sean Jones' excuses on Growing Up. Walt, Dave and Scott don't agree. See the end of Scott's writeup of Southern Belle.
http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Hey-Coz-Sure-would-like-to-hear-the-story-of-Southern-Belle/t271n.html
I think Sean's deeper reason may have been that he didn't want to spend all the extra time and effort to create those final 5.11 slab pitches on lead.
And I can understand that. Sean himself was conflicted and not sure if he should do that.
But I think if a climber is no longer interested in the challenge and adventure of doing a first ascent, maybe it's time to quit doing them.
They often do not work as a "public service".
For example, probably nobody has repeated those upper slab pitches of Growing Up.
Or taken up Doug Robinson's idea of hiking to the top and rapping in to do them, or toprope them.
Too many other good routes with less approach time.

There may be a misunderstanding about what works as a drill stance.
Myself, I was amazed at the stances used on p10 of Hall of Mirrors.
Steep and glassy.

At this point in time, I dunno why anyone would get their panties in a wad over that style. Most of the free El Cap routes have seen some amount of work from the top down. The exception being the Muir, as far as I know.
Well at least you admit your knowledge is limited.
Why post info which you are unsure of?
Look on my page and learn if you are actually interested.

People got so upset over Growing Up on SFHD. Twenty years from now people will laugh at that.
SOME people will laugh about it, now and later.
Others will be bummed.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 22, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
Clint,

List all of the El Cap free routes and tell me which ones were not worked in some form from the top down. You can start with those stance drilled bolts on the free variation of the last pitch of the Nose. You know, the overhanging pitch....

I suppose you should include pitches where they were aided and then protection bolts were added on rappel. Zodiac type bolts, that didn't get in the way of the hordes of aid climbers.

I'm not trying to start a fight. The fight over bolts ended about 20 years ago. Maybe you didn't get the message.

Rag on Tommy C. for the Dawn Wall. Geez. It is the same thing.

As for HOM, I remember when it was going up, year after year. Lots of slander. Plenty of it. Who cares now?






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