Classic Squamish Chief Commentary Robin Barley 1978

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Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 6, 2008 - 09:31pm PT
Dreams from the drizzle...This one is for Anders, in memory of Eric Weinstein and Darryl Hatten. The best early historical survey from Mountain 64 Nov/Dec 1978.















Cloudraker

Big Wall climber
BC
Jan 6, 2008 - 09:43pm PT
kick assss...
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Jan 6, 2008 - 09:46pm PT
I remember seeing that picture of Clean Crack and saying to myself "I gotta go there!"

Lots of great routes at Squamish. If I had to pick my five favorites (this is hard......)

    Grand Wall with the Cruel Shoes start

    Exasperator

    Local Boys Do Good (down at Shannon Falls) an amazing
slab route with some big runouts (at least it used to be run)

    Smoke Bluff Connection

    Center Street

I never managed Clean Crack. Unlike most of the routes at
Squamish, it is pretty stiff for its grade. Trained hard to
do it after my first failure but they closed that area for
awhile in the late 80s.




Exasperator from the WWW
Jello

Social climber
No Ut
Jan 7, 2008 - 01:07am PT
Thanks again for posting up memories, Steve. Unfortunately I only ever got to Squamish just one time, not long after that article appeared, I think. But I did get to do Clean Crack and a few of the other short classics. Then Don Serl and I had a fine day on Grand Wall. This was my only climb with Don, who is a visionary and sage of the Coast Range, as you know.

-CleanJello
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 7, 2008 - 01:31am PT
Originally Clean Crack was only 7 - 8 metres of climbing. You climbed the thin crack to the 'pod', then made a few moves and grabbed a down-hanging cedar. Above was jungle. In the winter of 1976-77 I spent five or six days dangling on a rope, removing shrubs and digging out the entire 30+ metres of the crack. It was then climbable for its whole length, although it later got some more cleaning.

I never have been quite able to climb the thing, in post-1977 condition. Oh well, the railway company is now more aggressive about trespassing on the right of way - the base is perhaps two metres from the tracks. A few years ago they bolted a "do not climb" sign at the base of Clean Crack.

I'll see if I can find a pre-1976 slide, and one of the railway sign.
BeeHay

Trad climber
San Diego CA
Jan 7, 2008 - 02:32am PT
Kinda off topic, but this got me to wondering about Perry Beckham. Nice guy, towed me up some routes in Josh one Christmas vacation. Think he was a Squamish regular with Croft.

Brad
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2008 - 10:41am PT
Perry was still guiding masterfully the last time that I was up there. I had the pleasure of watching him float the mildly burly left side of the Split Pillar on the Grand Wall. I hope that he is still around and smiling as always.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 7, 2008 - 11:08am PT
Wow! Squamish has been on my list for years now. Gotta ask myself, "what's keeping me dude, get on with it?!"

Hey Steve, thanks for all the history. Sometimes it keeps me from work, but dreaming is good. Just one comment. I wonder if you can increase the Contrast a smidge on your scans. The photos are great but the text is a little hard to make out. Probably my error.

Thanks again.

Arne
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2008 - 11:28am PT
I'll see if I can better the resolution.... A photo of the classic and friendly Right Side of the Split Pillar.


Edit:Michael Kennedy photo.

Cups anyone?!?
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 7, 2008 - 11:44am PT
Clean! The weather's basically the same as Seattle isn't it? Which I never really think of as being all that rainy. How long does that crack continue like that?
Arne
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 7, 2008 - 12:23pm PT
How long does that crack continue like that?

Goes from fingers to about 4 inches over the course of 30 meters (100 feet) or so. No move really very hard, but no rests whatsoever. After that it changes character and you've got about another 10 meters of varied climbing to the belay ledge.

David
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Jan 7, 2008 - 12:41pm PT
most make the transition from jamming to laybacking a bit below the
guy in the photo and then it is a race to the first rest.

One post up, Squamish gets more rain than Seattle for sure (Squamish is in the anti-rain shadow), but it tends to be really nice from mid-June - October.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 7, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
Perry is alive and well and living in Squamish. He climbs, works as a rigger, and plays bluegrass. Hardly changed at all - he gave a well-received talk at the Squamish Mountain Festival in July 2007.

It (almost) always rains in Squamish - how else do you suppose the trees could grow so large? For climbers who visit in the summer, and are smitten and want to move there, I usually suggest a visit in November or February, to provide a balanced perspective.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 7, 2008 - 06:50pm PT
I still miss Squamish, at least when the weather is good. When I was there, I couldn't wait to get to SoCal sunshine. I can remember walking down to the Malamute one day in the rain, thinking I'd just check out routes since we couldn't climb. Peter and Tami were there on Clean Crack. Peter was repeatedly leading and down-leading that first crux section in the rain. He told us it was good training.

Peter and Perry Beckham made that scene really friendly for beginniners. They were always helping out and giving advice and spent hours patiently listening to us ask questions and spew. They were probably only five or six years older than me, but seemed like the local elders. I was really fortunate to start the craft there rather than in some of the places I lived in later on.
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Jan 7, 2008 - 10:25pm PT
my favorite line ever from mountain "sutton and Burton losing interest to meditations and halucinogens on the high wall of yosemite"

I just talked to Thom Nephew who named the route and drilled the bolts through the beer cans on the early attempts of Uncle Bens

hopefully he'll surface from his eastern washington HQ and post about the Chief

murf
E.L. "One"

Big Wall climber
Lancaster, California
Jan 7, 2008 - 10:30pm PT
A reprint from one of my previous posts, just cause it is one of my lasting climbing memories.....

It was 1978, and I was living in the state of Washington with my college buddy and his girlfriend. Chehalis, Washington. We escaped there after finishing college in California.
Typical college grads with no direction, no jobs in our fields, and no real interest in our fields even if jobs existed. So, we fled to the state of Washington where my friend knew some people who owned a small farm. We lived in the barn and did odd jobs in the community for money, until I landed a job working with delinquent youth in a group home. In our spare time we climbed Raineer and St. Helens (before it blew). We did some routes in the North Cascades, Index Town Wall, and the great climbing areas around Leavenworth. My college buddy was the one who introduced me to climbing in the late 60’s, and who also introduced me to steelhead fishing. Washington had plenty of both, and if it wasn’t for the damn rain I might still be living there today. I stayed in Washington for another year, and then decided to head back to So Cal via a long climbing trip through Canada and the Western United States. I loaded up my VW Van with all my possessions and headed north for Squamish.

I picked up a hitch hiker North of Vancouver who had done some climbing, and knew how to get to Squamish Chief. After dropping him off in a small town South of Squamish I quickly made my way up the old road at the base of the Chief and pulled into what could only be described as a “squatters” campground. I saw people bivied under the big rock cave, and out onto the old road. I pulled off to the side of the old road, got out and was greeted by a dozen climbers who noticed my California plates. They welcomed me to the circle where everyone was cooking or drinking beer and talking about routes in the area. A sandy haired blonde kid was talking about how classic the Grand Wall was, and then invited me to join him on a short crack climb called The Exasperator. He fired up the thing in the time it took me to get a harness on, and then watched me labor up it encouraging me the whole way. That evening, he shared with the group, his fascination with the DNB in Yosemite Valley, and how much he wanted to travel to Yosemite and do all the classic routes. He finally introduced himself as Peter Croft. Next to him was a very friendly Canadian by the name of Perry Beckman, and there was also an older guy by the name of Walt Dembisky who was with the U.S. Navy stationed in Alaska and on leave. He claimed to have climbed with Chouinard back in the day, and we made plans to climb some routes on the Slab just North of The Chief. Hearing this, Croft immediately recommended a climb called Diedre, and went on for twenty minutes about how classic the route was and how much we would enjoy it. Meanwhile, Perry Beckman invited me to join him on the Grand Wall the next morning after hearing how fascinated I was with this route. I reluctantly agreed to join him the next morning after unsuccessfully arguing that I wasn’t up to the grade. The next morning, I followed Perry up to the base, and listened to him describe, in great detail, all the features of the Grand Wall. We ended up doing four or five pitches that resulted in my balls ending up lodged in my throat, and then hung out at a belay checking out the upper pitches of Grand Wall which were really spectacular. We then rapped off, and I found Walt and headed for Diedre.

I spent a week at Squamish Chief and it is one of my best climbing memories. Since then, I have climbed in many areas throughout the Western United States, Great Britian and Europe, and have never come across a friendlier, more supportive group of climbers.


Cracko
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2008 - 11:28pm PT
Second that! I first met the Squamish crew in Yosemite in the early seventies. They were hanging out with Steve Quinlan and Jim Olsen and were instant fun around the fire. Dave Fulton aka Mel Fish and I still keep in touch.
Unfortunately, the scene around Squamish was pretty spartan early on and is much improved of late. Not that sleepy is all bad but when you find yourself getting excited about the Overweightia......
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
Now Russ Clune has seen some stone and he likes the Grand Wall best!!! From Mark Kroese's superlative Fifty Favorite Climbs, 2001. The Kennedy shot of the Split Pillar opens the section.






Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 8, 2008 - 08:18pm PT
The Split Pillar (pitch 7 in Russ' description) was actually first freed in 1975, by Daryl Hatten and Eric Weinstein. They used hexes to protect the parallel sided crack - they weren't very stable, as Daryl graphically recounted afterward.

They graded it 5.9, too.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2008 - 11:28am PT
Old school 5.9, Yeeehaw!
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 9, 2008 - 12:56pm PT
They graded it 5.9, too.

Used to hear "There's no move on it harder than 5.9" all the time. Sure doesn't feel that way when you're a quivering mess of lactic acid and there's still another ten feet of "5.9" offwidth to go before you hit the first rest.

AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Jan 9, 2008 - 01:50pm PT
How do you grade something when every move is 5.8-5.9?
Just like Butterballs has no move over 5.11a yet is a 5.11c lead.
Split Pillar is kind of like a continuous steep ice climb in that any 10 foot section is easy but putting the whole thing together is another deal altogether. 10b for the Split seems about right though technically easier than Caboose or Apron Strings.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2008 - 07:32pm PT
There certainly is no crux which puts the sand in the bag.....Anyone have a shot of the boatrope climb once above the Sword? Is that thing still fixed through the bolt ladders?
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 9, 2008 - 07:46pm PT
Eric said that if there was any 5.10 on the Pillar, it was in the first move or two. It's not much different from many Valley 5.9s, often from the 1960s, that are also burly and sustained, but don't really have a crux.

Don't get me started on grade inflation.

The rope on the Sword was removed years ago, and I believe it now lives in a bucket in my brother's basement. He probably isn't planning to start a museum, though.
Strongerdog

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 9, 2008 - 08:26pm PT
I use to go up to Squamish every so often back when the town was still backwards and unique. Now, as has been stated, they have a Starbucks - what more can you say.

I did the Grand years ago with Hummerchine from a crack of noon start. We finished off with the Roman Chimney finish (highly recommended) just as it got dark.

After drinking some beers in town we were walking downtown when some of the loggers yelled "faggots" to us from across the street. We were each wearing Hind running tights which of course meant we were gay (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Squamish should be on every climbers list, along with an umbrella and pair of Hind tights.

Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 9, 2008 - 08:31pm PT
An old guidebook to Vantage (central Washington) said "Ellensburg also features a large selection of redneck bars, where the patrons would be happy to take umbrage at your Verve tights."
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2008 - 11:54pm PT
Absolutely priceless Anders! I used to ponder the same sort or worlds colliding in Almo, Idaho back when the first Sport Touros began to flood into The City of Rocks lycra and all. LOL
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 10, 2008 - 01:20am PT
The redneck bars in Squamish had their terrors as well, and long before anyone ever heard of lycra. I've heard stories of Steve Sutton battling loggers in the Chieftan back in the day...
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 10, 2008 - 01:36am PT
The rednecks, and hooligan teens, were chasing climbers out of Squamish bars and such well into the 1970s. Their driving was sometimes a little anti-social, too.

Not all climbers were angelic, either.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2008 - 10:55am PT
Awww, say it ain't so!!! Peter Croft easily makes up for all the jerks in town.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2008 - 12:28pm PT
Has Cruel Shoes been rebolted any time recently? Best way to reach the Split Pillar for sure . The original aluminum hangers were still there the last time that I passed through.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2008 - 11:13pm PT
Quality bump!
Scared Silly

Trad climber
UT
Aug 18, 2008 - 11:41am PT
Funny, I visited Squamish for the first time a couple of weeks ago. On our second day we did the Grand Wall via Apron Strings and then finished on the Dyke route. Good fun though I did have to wimp and hang in the split pillar and once on Perry's. So thirty years later ....
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2008 - 11:20pm PT
So Anders.....what is the story with Bricks Shannon soloing the upper pitches on the Black Dike on "motor responses!"
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 18, 2008 - 11:22pm PT
Greg did solo the first ascent of the upper five pitches of the Dyke, in around 1974. Mixed aid and free. I don't know much more, but could ask him about it.

ps It's Shannan, not Shannon.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2008 - 01:23am PT
Greg and "Bricks" Shannan are one and the same then?
Keeper of Australia Mt

Trad climber
Whitehorse, Yukon , Canada
Aug 19, 2008 - 11:36pm PT
Ah, all this talk Squamish gets me antsy - will have to tag some days on a southbound trip in early October and have at it some more.

Diedre is definitely a delight - the most travelled route in Canada as Marc Bourdon notes. But there are many delights on the Apron including Banana Peel and Sickle. I hope to tick Snake on one of my next trips. But a real gem is Starchek - bit up the road - a nice little rap to the bottom of the canyon - waves dancing all round, the roar of white water, snow capped mountains ringing your view almost 360 - and away you go. Definitely one of the embedded Squamish gems - 5.9 but with some harder stuff adjacent.

As with most things, timing is everything and there is good weather to be had for sure a little nippy early spring and fall but with a few double shots at the Starbucks launchpad and the post-mortem suds at the Brew Pub - how can life be better.
If you are lucky you can tie in with some seriously amazing climbers - Bourdon, Morehead and others. Ah, to be young and talented! Or you can hook up with Anders (well seasoned, wise and talented!) And you have both talent and local color in the Hanzels, biker George - running up Diedre in some outrageously ridiculous minimal amount of time sans rope. His Climb On store is one grand belay for the whole operation - good place to hang out for a few minutes and pick up the hot beta on new routes and his incisive data on the whole scene. And if you want to get your ya yas out (or something else!) how about a 30 ft whipper on Freeway. Or replicate a local lad's ropeless solo of the Grand Wall - check the DVD for the white knuckles.

But in Nirvanna there can always be some disaster zones and leaving your vehicle in the Chief parking lot with climbing gear exposed is gauranteed to lead to some personal misery. There are some dudes who only recently oozed out ot the adjacent Howe Sound in the evolutionary sense. And they seem to have acquired the ability to use screwdrivers on vehicle locks with nasty effect. If you catch them, you can do us all a favour of setting them as a permanent chockstone on the grand wall or clipped into a single bolt on the Sheriff's Badge for a few days, or weeks or months.

In any case, all climbers owe Anders many free beers, a maybe a free massage or two, for his relentless work with the BC Access group in sustaining open access to the climbing areas. The depth and richness of the Squamish experience would be lesser had it not been for his superlative efforts over many years.

And if you do get the big dump whilst in Squamish, the fallback position is to jump in the humvee, or vw beetle and make a hasty insurgent foray east to Skaha in the dry interior. Near desert conditions, cactus, snakes - you will feel like you never left the southern 48 - except the beer is better and there is lots of water. The ice is even in at the Memorial Arena so life is and would be good. And chances are you will still run into Anders because the dude is omnipresent and omni-potent with his passion for the game.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 20, 2008 - 12:49am PT
For this I pay him?! Few if any of the things Jeff says about me are true, and the remainder exaggerated.

Yes, Greg Shannan is none other than Bricks. So nicknamed, I believe, because of an incident involving imitation bricks in a wall outside the Jolly Alderman, a then less than stellar bar across from Vancouver city hall.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2009 - 11:16am PT
Bump in the rain.....
Cloudraker

Big Wall climber
BC
Apr 3, 2009 - 11:56am PT
bump in the sun!!!
MH2

climber
Apr 3, 2009 - 12:47pm PT
I think this is Greg Shannan, facing camera, a few years ago.

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 3, 2009 - 12:52pm PT
Yes that's Greg. A really really fine guy. Is that Neil Bennett with his back to the camera?

And here's a really really fine climb: Anybody care to name it?

Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 3, 2009 - 01:08pm PT
Nice thread guys. My buddy Richard was in town last week; he was at Daryl's memorial with Yerian and I. Once again he told me the story of how he and Daryl and Dave got beat up at the base of the Chief by a bunch of local high school kids. Great story. I pleaded with him to post up on the Taco, since a bunch of you would love that story. A different kind of epic.
MH2

climber
Apr 3, 2009 - 01:21pm PT
Ghost, if that isn't Blazing Saddles it is doing a good imitation of it. I was hoping it would be that climb on the wall the other side of the creek on the backside trail.

edit: nice color and brave photographer - That route sheds rock.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 3, 2009 - 01:27pm PT
if that isn't Blazing Saddles it is doing a good imitation of it

Yes, Blazing Saddles -- with Mari just below the part where you go from thinking "This is pretty easy for the grade" to thinking "What a total f*#king sandbag!"

Tami

Social climber
Vancouver, Canada
Apr 3, 2009 - 02:37pm PT
.....I heard another story about how Greg got the name of Bricks.

BigGrin.

When I met him thirty years ago he was driving a hearse. He finally got rid of it c'os it got really lousy gas mileage.

Hahhaa

That is def Neil with his back to the camera. Bricks for sure in front. Both next to the Grouse Nest on top of The Grind.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2009 - 08:38pm PT
The expense was killing him, eh!

BigGrin===> Funny story %%$$?
Climbing dropout

Trad climber
Vancouver, BC
Apr 4, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
I used to climb grand wall regularly, with Hamish Fraser in the 80's and early 90's.

The biggest piece on the rack for the route was a single 1.5 friend, 1 or 2 RP's and one or two perlon slung stoppers.

The 1.5 got placed 10 feet up apron strings, then the only other piece he would use was a #4 RP to protect the crux of apron strings. When the rope length was payed out I would start climbing we would 4th class to the base of the split pillar from the ground placing 2 pieces, and clipping the bolts on merci me.

I think we had figured out that he would have already clipped the first bolt on mercy me, as I was doing the crux on apron strings, so we were safe ! ha ha ha ... we did this routine so often it really was a low risk 4th class.

Belaying started at the split pillar, Hamish would lead the pillar placing the 1.5 friend 10 feet up the pillar and then run it out to clip the manky bolts that used to protect the OW section. I think there was a stopper placement he used after that.

The 1.5 friend then protected the sword, with a stopper and RP or two, and wasn't used again till the last pitch, that we simu-climbed to the base of from the bolt ladder top, which would be the only piece used there. Of course he clipped every bolt on the route.

As I recall it was usually a spontaneous, late, and sunny afternoon decision to do the route. I think it was a 2 hour trip to bellygood ledge, maybe Hamish knows how long it usually took us

Hamish had amazing, strength, endurance, good judgment and complete confidence in his abilities while knowing his limits at the same time. I was lucky to have climbed the amount of stone with him that I did. Which was a lot !

Croft always said what held Hamish back as a climber was his work ethic, which was very high, just like his climbing standards, and morals.



klk

Trad climber
cali
Apr 4, 2009 - 09:07pm PT
Not that hard to imagine Split Pillar as 5.9. Thin hands boulder sectino off the belay, then bomber hands.

There was no real OW section, because of the chockstones. Then easy chimney. Nice pitch.

The left side looked KILLER! Does it still get done? It was filled with mud, the one time I ventured left to check it out.

I enticed a couple friends from SoCal up to visit Squamish in the late 1980s. Early Pet Wall days. S sprained his ankle the first day of the trip, so their goals got dialed back a bit. But I do remember hanging with The Chieftains for part of an afternoon at Murrin Park.

Friendly crew-- S was chronic, and having a hard time. The Cs were remarkably generous and friendly. I did have some questions about hygiene, but hey, when in Rome.
Climbing dropout

Trad climber
Vancouver, BC
Apr 4, 2009 - 09:08pm PT
you're right it was a fist size ... it's been well over a decade since I was up there. My problem was I have small hands. It was slightly beyond a fist jam for me, well it was a layback section really. The left side never saw many ascents in a year. Nowadays I haven't a clue, probably sees very few ascents still. My memories are impaired by the amount of dope smoking that went on in those days up there ...
Tami

Social climber
Vancouver, Canada
Apr 5, 2009 - 12:33am PT
Hamish high morals ? Bruce you did smoke too much weed :-D

HAHAHA!!!!

But, yah, Hamish sure could WORK hard. And Croft ? Work ? HAHAHAHAAA!!!!

Okay,okay , I followed the L side of the Pillar a zillion yrs ago but I don't recall any mud.

Climbing dropout

Trad climber
Vancouver, BC
Apr 5, 2009 - 12:51am PT
I should have said climbing ethics, morals was the wrong word for the context of the statement

whatever .... we had boatloads of fun

I never did the left side, Dean Hart broke off nice foothold on the traverse into the left side, I remember seeing that happen from the ground.

Speaking of too much weed, Tami, wanna hear the story about how Indica Point in the North Walls of the Chief got it's name ?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2009 - 03:25pm PT
Smoke signals if I ever saw them! LOL Speaking of which, how did the Little Smoke Bluffs get that name?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 5, 2009 - 03:59pm PT
Speaking of which, how did the Little Smoke Bluffs get that name?

The guys who first started climbing there were into Carlos Castenada, who referred to reefer as the little smoke. Much of their activity in the bluffs involved...

anyway, they came to call them the little smoke bluffs, and the name stuck.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2009 - 05:26pm PT
El Humito! Es bien obvio, claro!

Thanks for the Little Smoke History.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 5, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
Common refrain at the time:

"What ya wanna do?"

"I dunno. I'm probably too stoned to climb."

"Yeah, me too. Let's go do something in the Bluffs then."
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2009 - 06:07pm PT
But Squamish already has an Apron!
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 6, 2009 - 12:21am PT
Another explanation for the name Little Smoke Bluffs related to the mill at Woodfibre, about 6 km southwest of Squamish. BITGOD, the mill's output of sulphuric clouds was prodigious. During stable weather in midsummer, the stuff would accumulate overnight and in the morning. The closer to the mill, the greater the concentration - there may have been other mills right in Squamish to add to it. So it tended to be fairly cloudy and smelly on midsummer mornings, especially near ground level. Usually an adiabatic (inflow) wind would develop later in the morning, and by afternoon have cleared away much of the smoke.

So the name also (allegedly) related to its relative freedom from the stench from Woodfibre.

Here's a photo of Woodfibre from a late afternoon in spring of 1983. By then a lot of the atmospheric (but not oceanic) pollutants had been reduced, but it was still a lot.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2009 - 10:59pm PT
I think I'd prefer the other sort of smoke....
Tami

Social climber
Vancouver, Canada
Apr 7, 2009 - 12:59am PT
Steve - in 1983 there was a fair bit of that type of smoke too

:-D
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 7, 2009 - 01:13am PT
I pretty much passed on the "voluntary" smoke, and could easily have done without that from Woodfibre too.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2009 - 11:04pm PT
Little Smoke Bump!
Tami

Social climber
Vancouver, Canada
Nov 2, 2009 - 02:37pm PT
I thot the Smoke Bluffs were so named because of a forest fire that went through the place in the early '70's ( there was another in the '80's too ) . The fire got underground into the roots of trees & smoked for some weeks..........
Paul Kindree would prolly be the guy who would know. Remember his house ( and that horrible monkey they owned ) was just around the corner from where we used to gain access to the Bluffs parking lot.

MH2

climber
Nov 2, 2009 - 07:19pm PT
Robin Barley in recent action:



Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2009 - 09:11pm PT
Does anyone have the next Squamish survey that features my buddy Mel Fish aka Dave Fulton powering up The Daily Planet on TR? Please post it up here, if you would!
MH2

climber
Nov 2, 2009 - 10:32pm PT
from Mountain #104 July/August 1985

Dave Fulton on the undercling traverse of The Daily Planet

photograph by Kevin McLane



Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2009 - 11:21pm PT
Thanks Andy! I love that shot and have to give it a go sometime.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2010 - 02:57pm PT
Name this airy spot from a Dick Culbert shot somewhere on the Chief from Off Belay August 1977.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jun 27, 2010 - 01:12am PT
It's at the top of Mercy Me, where Uncle Ben's and Ten Years After diverge. Taken on the FA of Ten Years After in 1970.
Chief

climber
Jun 27, 2010 - 09:55am PT
Things have certainly changed around here since Robin's article.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2010 - 11:56am PT
Ya think!?!?! I bet Mel Fish is still ripping the layers off up there...
Chief

climber
Jun 27, 2010 - 12:27pm PT
Fish is alive and well, lives in a nice house by the river and amongst many activities, spends time flying with his old pal Scott Flavelle and the Whistler/Pemberton crowd.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2010 - 01:54pm PT
Mel and I almost started a squirrel products business BITD! So many pelts, so little time...LOL
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2010 - 09:17pm PT
Squirrel Mukluks Bump!!!
MH2

climber
Jul 9, 2010 - 09:23pm PT
Mukluks for squirrels or mukluks from squirrels?
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jul 9, 2010 - 11:52pm PT
I'd go with BOTH ^^^^^^^^^


.........and a little sidemeat.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2010 - 10:48am PT
Perhaps a reconsideration is in order...Squirrels wearing squirrel prods?!? Now there's a PETA dilemma! LOL

Would you like home fries with that side of trimmings, maam?!?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2010 - 10:47pm PT
Not only does the man lay-wayback but he also holds forth on the topic of romancing the stone...From Rock and Ice March April 1988.



MH2

climber
Jul 31, 2010 - 03:21am PT
"We traded ends and she made a beeline for the top"

The girl who gets you out of trouble.

In the smaller context, that is.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2010 - 11:34am PT
Fish Floggin' Bump!
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Aug 1, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
HAHAAHAHA I remember that story. And I know who the girl iz.........but, d'oh, that should be easy fer EVERYONE to figger out. :-D

A great story hilariously told. Most wonderful Mel Fish. Thanks, Steve !
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
It's either you or Lynn Hill!?!? Instead of Butterballs and all! LOL
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
Mel Fish enter and sign in please!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
Slippery Fish Bump!
Randy Atkinson

Trad climber
North Vancouver
Dec 31, 2010 - 02:55pm PT
Hi Tami, this is about Greg Shannan's car, specifically the hearse that he had more or less lived in, slept in at various points in time. But I do believe that what really happened to Greg's hearse, was that it was involved in an accident.

I heard or sort of knew that Greg was working in LA, and yes he did have his hearse down there for getting around and what not. But apparently a bank robbery get away car and Greg's hearse, made some contact. Hearse was totaled, bank robbers caught, Greg has to get a new car.

Maybe Greg knows?
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Dec 31, 2010 - 03:32pm PT
I hadn't heard that story Randy; it's possible Dave Harris ( ghost ) knows. Not sure about Foodeater c'os I'm not so sure if he knew Bricks much. Peter C might also know but he only posts here on rare occasion. You know who WOULD know is Kon Kraft - funny he duzzn't post on this forum. It's rite up his alley. Oh, Neal Bennett might also know & I jsut got an email from him this a/m. Will write later tonight. Rite now off to ski...

I remember the hearse well tho' & couldn't figger out why Bricks drove that beheamoth when it got something like 8 miles to the gallon ... it did look great tho'..........
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 03:21pm PT
Ghost story Bump!
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Jan 2, 2011 - 03:47pm PT
Just spoke with Melvin Fish.
He's alive and well and I don't think he even knows The Stand exists much less that he's a character of some renown.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 04:02pm PT
Tell him that he's still on the front page of the Daily Planet and lookin' good!

He must divulge the identity of the Loveduck since Tami ain't sayin'!?!
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Jan 2, 2011 - 04:38pm PT
Steve, all I can safely say is it wasn't Tami!
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 2, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
^^^ I would NEVER have led Wheat Thin. WAY too sick & terrifying for me.


Def wazzn't me.


Perry knows ^^^^^


I know :-D


HA HA HA HA HA
gf

climber
Jan 2, 2011 - 08:45pm PT
tami-change the subject and tell us if you skied this weekend!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 2, 2011 - 08:48pm PT
Sounds like a leading question to me.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 08:56pm PT
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 2, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
Yup we did. The three of us waddled up the public access with a zillion snowshoers. Went to the top of Romstads "big hill" as Fred ( Burfield not Beckey ) useda call it. Hell, my Dad still calls it that. Hadda pee & puff atop that and beat a path down through the trees & beat up choss left by snowshoers and hikers then poached the ski area runs back to the car. Caught the sunset at 4:30.

Does the sneaky route join that trail at the place where Pacific Run starts to get steep? Looked like a well-worn path beat into the snow around there.

Mum is buggin' us to take her up c'os Dad isn't too keen any more to drive the road when it's icy. My son arrives here the seventh with his skate-ski gear in tow ready to rip it up on Hollyburn c'os it's freakin' pissin' rain in the Gatineau........

Think I'll wait till another dump ..............of snow.............to go back out again.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 2, 2011 - 09:43pm PT
Tami,

I'm back in Edmonton, going to Calgary . Say the word when I'm back and you Phil and I will go for a really great ski on some less traveled Cypress Park.

Jim
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 2, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
Jim :-) !!!
gf

climber
Jan 2, 2011 - 10:11pm PT
well -if jimmy is being chivalrous ...count me in too. -tami you guys will love it -how wide are your boards underfoot?

Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 2, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
We ski on tele gear. Not wide. But hey........at least Phil got me off the 195's I scored from you 20 years ago. Progress is measured in millimetres with me.

We don't have much in the way of avi gear either. Workin' dirtbag jobs & now havin two kids in college keeps the acquisitions to a bare minimum.

We'll join ya if we know we won't die :-)

And this: I saw two hikers on Romstads hill with TWO small poodle-ish type dogs. I bit my tongue instead of askin' if they were avalanche poodles.
gf

climber
Jan 2, 2011 - 10:41pm PT
You should have dog-napped those poodles, they will come in handy where we will be going...
Re -the skis -good god women, you were actually still trying to ski on those drill bits?
Not to worry, we'll spin the skin and ski discs on a smooth safe number, all members will have fun.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 2, 2011 - 10:42pm PT
Perhaps I'll come to, if the stars are so aligned.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 2, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
You are maligning my fabulous 195's????? I skied with the late great Ed Spat on the flying couches of Cypress ( didn't he INVENT clipping the passes from people in the parking lot??? Excuse me sir, you won't be needing that any longer will you ? Allow me.........) and he was on 223's. Whilst riding the lift up Black Mtn he started shouting at hapless d/h skiers beneath the lift "SHORT SKIS SUCK!!!!!! SHORT SKIS SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!"

I felt like I was on popsicle sticks. Yeah I know our Ed was over a foot taller then me. Duzzn't matter.

ANders is gonna tag along ? Oh, dear.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrright, as this turns into an expedition........I only have Sun/Mon available. I'm otherwise gainfully EMPLOYED.
bmacd

Trad climber
100% Canadian
Jan 2, 2011 - 11:01pm PT
I boot packed the snow shoe trails up there today via the original trail to lodge then to warming hut. Carried snowshoes strapped to my pack. Stopped for a visit at the boy scout cabin but all shuttered up. As some of you know I am not allowed to ski yet.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 2, 2011 - 11:34pm PT
Bruce, as long as you're there no one will care what's on your feet.

Ed was definitely the champ when it came to free skiing. He would counsel the enthusiastic to wait until at least 10 because that was when the environment was most target rich with thumped skiers.

He had side cutters bought specifically for the task and one day could not suppress his grin as he approached pliers first at a hapless, beaten pass holder. Resistance was futile...
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jan 3, 2011 - 03:32pm PT
Fall 1987 "Beautiful British Comumbia Magazine"

Will try this and if too small/large will correct.

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Found this while still looking for Eiger catalog, might have been posted before do not have the time to look back on previous posts on the subject.

If you want me to go a tad larger should be not a problem. let me know.
bmacd

Trad climber
100% Canadian
Jan 3, 2011 - 04:10pm PT
Ski mountaneering with Robin Barley usually involves dogs, and on this trip a helicopter was enlisted too.
Ski mountaineering with Robin Barley - Miller Creek &  Ipsoot Mtn - No...
Ski mountaineering with Robin Barley - Miller Creek & Ipsoot Mtn - Northern section of Pemberton Icecap
Credit: Robin Barley
Azul leads the way to Ipsoot summit - 8451 ft - on a Robin Barley trip...
Azul leads the way to Ipsoot summit - 8451 ft - on a Robin Barley trip 10+ years ago
Credit: bmacd
MH2

climber
Jan 3, 2011 - 05:45pm PT
Robin Barley more recently, telling us about his glue-in staples. Next day we saw a test staple which a truck was used to pull on and the rope broke.





gf

climber
Jan 3, 2011 - 07:13pm PT
Hi Anders and Tami
At present the prime turns are likely to be had wed between 7-10 am -a foolish few of us are planning on a dawn patrol -if you don't have min of 90 mm underfoot at mid point and around 110 mm tip and tail, i would not recommend this as the optimum day -the track will be steep, it will be chucking coastal snow, but damm it will be fun. A more sedate choice would be sat or sun of next weekend. Let me know, always happy to participate.

Returning to the topic at hand, squamish climbing.
In regard to staples -well they seem to work pretty damm well in thailand, plus animal instinct and others have these in situ in our part of the world.

g
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 3, 2011 - 07:42pm PT
Mister Food Eater - Since I've done one day of skiin' in the past 2 yrs ( 31 Dec 2010 ) I'll pass on yer dawn patrol. I work eves, boyz, and am not big on the crack o' dawn starts. Lame, yeah.....

Next Sun maybe but more likely we'll be doing the on-piste stuff with my folks - both who have expressed interest in going up. But , since they're both goin' on 90 , I think we'll stay on the lower runs. Maybe take Mum up to the base of Romstads but she doesn't do well in the choss. Thanks fer the headszup.

Back to talkin' Robin :-) and his staples.
gf

climber
Jan 3, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
Tami,

Please give my kind regards to your parents -that is just super that they are out and about on the sticks -wish i could get my folks to do same -they packed in skiing in their early 70's -near as i can figure it was a "fear of falling thing" which is fair enough i reckon.
I will keep an eye out for you and them next weekend -i have tanner rigged up with inserts for her downhill gear so we may be doing an initial foray -to date she has been using sawn off tuas and mismatched 3 pin bindings so this is a big step up!
g
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 3, 2011 - 07:56pm PT
Good to get the kids started on crap gear. Then they appreciate the cream later on.

'Sides, the little f*#kers grow outta everything when ya leave the room so best to do the Cheap.

NOw , of course, I'm getting bugged for some kinda fancy heart monitor training thingie for child # 1. ( turns 21 next week ) oy oy oy
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2011 - 08:28pm PT
Squishy Bump!
squishy

Mountain climber
sacramento
May 21, 2011 - 12:09am PT
wtf is a squishy bump eh?
Tami

Social climber
Canada
May 21, 2011 - 12:27am PT
Squishy bump is a volleyball term. It's when the ball is slightly deflated and it gets bumped and it's , like, squish. And stuff.



Are you happy now?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2011 - 02:22pm PT
YOURS is a squishy bump, eh?!?
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
May 21, 2011 - 02:27pm PT
Looking out the dining room window at the cloud wreathed Sheriff's Badge.
Gentle rain, spring greenery, flowers blooming and birds chirping.
Very squishy and loving it!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 21, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
Speaking of which, what is the right word to use for when you're hiking in muddy weather? That neat sound that boots make as you walk into, then pull them out of, a muddy bit. Slurck? Splork?
Relic

Social climber
Vancouver, BC
Dec 26, 2011 - 01:05am PT
Barley bump
thekidcormier

Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
Dec 26, 2011 - 01:27pm PT
bump for anders muddy boots
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Dec 26, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
Staple Bump! The rope broke but I heard you can pull them easily with a crowbar?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Dec 26, 2011 - 09:30pm PT
The Barley staples are secured with common brick mortar. This is a construction technique that went the way of the dinosaur in the the late '70's. Any liquid adhesive or grout must be of a proven, engineered design and system documentation provided.

That's why there is Hilti Hit epoxy and other manufacturer's adhesives for just this application. Robin has such great imagination and willingness to pull off these projects.

It would be just as great if he showed the same respect for the safety engineering of construction materials as he does for anaesthetics.

What's up, Doc ? Anyone who's tried to tow a car with a climbing rope has come to the same weak conclusion. Climbing ropes only matter to 200lb's of weight falling 20'- 30', 5 times minimum, dynamically. Hardly a good point of reference.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 26, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
IIRC, the good doctor himself had some of his staples tested - after he'd placed a fair number, leading to some lively debate, something he's not unfamiliar with - and was informed that they're not as reliable or strong as he had believed. Even before the effects of weathering and installer error are factored in. That is what I heard from a reliable source, anyway.

As the staples are essentially mortared in, it might not be difficult to remove them by giving the metal a brisk tap, to crack the mortar, then to pull it straight out. A fall or other impact, or repeated freeze-thaw cycles, might have much the same effect.

The staples are an interesting idea, but give unreliable results. They're also not very user-friendly, and to such extent as there is an "industry" standard in terms of fixed anchors, they don't meet it.
bmacd

Mountain climber
100% Canadian
Dec 26, 2011 - 11:24pm PT
A hanging belay off one point and its a rusty 10 year old barley staple .... if there is ever going to be a precedent for litigation against a first ascentionist, Barley is setting himself up nicely for it. I pity the family that must pioneer the neccessary legal recourse after the tragedy.

Robin could seriously alter climbing in Canada as we know it.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Dec 26, 2011 - 11:34pm PT
So between the last three posters there is well over 100 years of climbing experience combined plus one has practiced law for three decades and one has been in construction for three decades...........so.........luke........does their evidence weigh enough ? :-)
Relic

Social climber
Vancouver, BC
Dec 26, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
One of my recurring nightmares involves a cliff overrun by Barley routes, all of which are rated 5.10 with 4PA and are named after various medical terminology. Oh and streaked with bleach with nice foamy frothing dirt at the base of it.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Dec 27, 2011 - 12:35am PT
Robin is a good guy and always enthusiastic for climbing. He's very spirited though and loves an argument.You'll have to bring the riot gear if you want to complain to him !
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Dec 27, 2011 - 01:19am PT
Always seemed flawed to me. Even the whole idea of the holes being so close and fracturing the rock.

Someone should write a letter to a manufacturer to sponser Robin's activities... If he will accept it??
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Dec 27, 2011 - 02:18pm PT
Mike,

I think the manufacturers of construction materials wish climbers would go away and stop using their stuff for dynamic applications. It's hard enough getting certification these days for an anchor that holds fast a paper towel dispenser.

The beast must roam though:

Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Dec 27, 2011 - 09:21pm PT
It's too bad that Robin is such a Luddite and never goes online, perhaps then he could defend some of his decisions.

I had tea with him last summer and he explained his rationalization for placing Staples and the science behind it. His deceased brother was an engineer who worked for a British rail company where staples are commonly placed in granite. He had shear and pull tests on the staples which surpassed or equaled stainless bolts.

My understanding is that the Squamish staples where removed with a pry bar after being repeatedly bashed with a hammer. This is the same method I use to remove Hilti 3/8" bolts.
I can't comment on the adhesive that was used, but will certainly bring up the topic next time I see him.

I agree he thrives on controversy and every one posting here probably agrees his contributions to BC rock climbing are unequaled, but sadly Barley Bashing has become sport with people who have never even met him. His most telling remark to me was " We all have things we regret and would do differently"

I also find the arguments against his Barley chain rap stations humorous, they are inconvenient and discourage top roping but have never been proven unsafe. Actually after this road trip , I realize how fortunate we are in Squamish to have so many state of the art belay and rap stations. Barley Chain rap stations or their equivalent are actually quite common in many areas and purposely placed to discourage top-roping.

My favorite ridiculous criticism of Robin was from a sport climber in Skaha, who had fallen off one of his mixed route and complained there were no bolts beside the obvious crack. " F...ing Robin Barley."
bmacd

Mountain climber
100% Canadian
Dec 28, 2011 - 02:54am PT
discretion is quality completely absent in robins world, if parks bc banned anything but UIAA approved drilled bolts, with anchors placed according to standards set by the guides, we would see a lot less squeeze plays and grid bolting by robin. hit him in the pocket book. those staples are total bunk

face it rolf the sh#t thats going on now is ridiculous, its a goddam park now and it's a privilege to be able to put up a route there period, a privilege robin risks blowing for everyone, out of his and his alone complete and utter selfishness.

squamish isn't an area reserved to a select few like it was 30 years ago, and robin is the only one behaving that way.

so stop blowing smoke rolf, regarding the good he's done cause it isn't going to justify the f*#kup when the sh#t comes down, which it eventually will
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 28, 2011 - 03:58pm PT
You raise an interesting point - in the modern world of rock climbing at Squamish, who should set the standards for activities that affect our community and the public? Who speaks for climbers? Fixed anchors, gimcrack ladder systems, trails, cleaning activities, and on and on. Standards that will probably be borrowed for use elsewhere in Canada.

It's reasonably sure that it shouldn't be commercial interests, given that their activities to some extent conflict with those of the climbing community as a whole, and as can be seen in the Alps, tend to lowest common denominator (= maximum profit) decisions.
gf

climber
Dec 28, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
Are there instances where commercial climbing interests have compromised the environment in squamish? Are these out of proportion to individual transgressions? Is it reasonable to dismiss input by commercial groups out of hand due to actual or perceived conflicts of interest? Is business bad?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 28, 2011 - 04:43pm PT
Commercial interests may contribute to the needed decisions, but shouldn't make them. That's all I'm suggesting. And the climbing community as a whole should be aware of the potential, at least, for competing and at times conflicting commercial interests.

There are, of course, examples of commercial interests contributing in a positive way. That's not always the case - territorial behaviour on climbs and cliffs, the movie industry, promoting monopolies, some activities by 'sponsored' climbers, and convenience bolting come to mind. Climbers simply need to have open eyes about these things, as they need to have about their own behaviours.

It would be naive to believe that commercial interests always dovetail with those of the public, whether on our cliffs and mountains, or in the world at large.

ps And let's not even talk about people who write guidebooks and histories. Guilty! Guilty!
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 28, 2011 - 04:43pm PT
Is business bad?

Business is evil. I read that on an internet forum called supertopo. Some guys there said that business people are trying to destroy the middle and lower classes.

So business should be banned from climbing areas. You would know this if you read more information on the internet.
bmacd

Mountain climber
100% Canadian
Dec 28, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
who should set the standards for activities that affect our community and the public ?

Well I can tell you who shouldn't and that would be the the old school curmudgeons with their Palaeolithic backward thinking ways. I'll name names if you like; .... McLane, Barley, Neanderthal and Denisova man to get it started. People whom should be would include the guides working in squish.

I support these new generation climbers whom are raising the bar, pro-active, well educated and making contributions. There people now whom are already actively involved in making policy with parks and doing a fine job of it. Jeremy Firmer is more engaged in policy decisions with parks than anyone as far as I can tell, and thats a good thing as he fits the criteria I have listed. He may have made mistakes and drawn criticisms, but thats part of the game with leadership

I would also propose fines for park policy violations, including retroactive with overdue fees and compounded interest.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Dec 29, 2011 - 10:18pm PT
Personal assault at creative individuals is the "whatever happens in climber land" equivalent of sensational cases making for bad laws.

Axes to grind are plentiful for irrelevant middle aged attacks. A Ghost post was about those who make change are those who show up. I didn't like it then but I get it now.

Shrill scrubbers/trundlers tilting at bureaucrats will lead to a *best for all* lowest common denominator decision. As long as the youtube glitter captures the best HAHA while the protagonists plead purely, earnestly, their media passing will have no bearing on policy...

Yeah, right.

If you're ready for your close up, be as ready for who is scrutinizing.
Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Dec 30, 2011 - 12:46am PT
I can’t wait till Squamish becomes another Nanny state with climber supported policing. Sign me up, lets add a user fee for climbing to pay for the bureaucracy we’ll create.

Even though there has never been a successful liability lawsuit against land owners/ parks, involving rock climbing or hazardous recreational activities, we should demand that all climbers carry liability insurance and pass strict licensing guidelines. We all understand that climbing is dangerous and there is an inherent risk of bolt or pin failure, and we voluntarily chose to participate , but someone needs to protect us from ourself.

Since I am one of the evil business owners, I will be able to afford insurance, licensing and my own personal injury lawyer when I clip the pin on Climb and Punishment and it fails. I know Gordie Smaill is still alive, so maybe I can also sue him for making me scared on his runout unsafe climbs, a least Parks BC should retro bolt his climbs so us testicular challenged climbers can have equal access.

If Baldwin and Cooper had a climbing advisory committee, they would still be in the bar.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Dec 30, 2011 - 06:23am PT
Bruce- I did expect some comment, because staples have been such a hot topic issue around here.

I did not however expect such an interesting discussion.


Should Barley be allowed to place staples as pro? Sure...

Do I have to choose to use them and climb his routes? Hell no.

It is a shame however that some very nice routes have staples for pro. I have clipped a few in my time and was always unsure about it. Sure they'll hold a fall but how many?

It is a shame also that north american society cannot let a person take responsibility for his/her actions, but rather must find some other party to blame.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Jan 3, 2012 - 11:45am PT
Staple Bump!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
Bump for Frankenstein's neck...
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 24, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
Kyle and I were actually lucky enough to meet Robin and have a good chat with him a couple of times before i left for Vegas. He seemed like a good bloke. We saw him one day at Call it a day wall, rap bolting another barley slab.

Canada's most prolific route framer at work


Kyle took an interest in one of his routes there, and decided to give it a go, so he took an interest in us.

Kyle on some 10+ barley route. (Can't remember the name for the life of me)


He told us a little about his work crew, which included dirty harry, and the moderates they were trying to exhume from the moss and dirt.

Barley work crew hard at it.


I dare say he'll get a few nice routes out of it!!

I'm also happy to report he was using proper bolts!!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
Glad he has taken the staples out of his diet...LOL
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 24, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
Apparently i was wrong. ( what's new?). My partner in crime informed me it was tunnel rock, not a barley route, and called verticle sine wave.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:20am PT
Barley bump!

Check out his new squamish guidebook, destined to be a collectors item.
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Nov 12, 2013 - 11:35am PT
Bump,

Keep em high!

Steve
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2015 - 01:22pm PT
Classic Character Bump!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2016 - 10:33am PT
I did it my way...bump
the goat

climber
north central WA
Jul 17, 2016 - 11:33am PT
Thanks for the bump Steve, I enjoyed reading what I missed 8 years ago.

Thom Nephew started Uncle Ben's with S&B finishing it? Guess I missed that one too. I clearly remember Al Givler's comments about his and Mead's exploits on The Black Dike. I believe Mead chronicled it somewhere....
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2017 - 06:33pm PT
Wet Squishy Bump...
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Oct 21, 2017 - 07:31pm PT
Sure enough, Dunbar Lumber had the red-handled scrub brushes just like Robin's book said they would. Except these brushes had yellow handles and brass-colored wire.



edit:

Yes that was confusing, Tami. Even though I had checked the internet map I still had to walk the neighbourhood a while to find the place.

I was also confused by the inability of the search function on SuperTopo to lead me to Splodge, at least the Splodge I was looking for. Then I recalled the loss of B Kay and felt sad.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Oct 21, 2017 - 08:28pm PT
And Dunbar Lumber isn't on Dunbar any more :-)
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Oct 22, 2017 - 08:02am PT
One of the early posts mentions Darryl and others getting roughed up by local hoodlums.
Who in their right mind would take on Darryl? Must have been a big gang!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2017 - 09:08am PT
Loggers don't care about the size of a tree only which way it falls...
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