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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 14, 2007 - 12:52pm PT
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Non-climbing threads on the SuperTopo Forum are fine. If you could only talk about climbing here without slightly going off topic the SuperTopo forum would not be the place it is. However, off topic threads and political ones in particular have a problem: they get a small group of people riled up to post a lot real fast. By comparison, a really good trip report is enjoyed by more people but doesnt necessarily get as many comments. The result is the cool climbing trip reports often get bumped down by non-climbing threads... which is a bummer. The number one mission of this web site is to create a great resource for climbers about climbing.
How to address this issue? some people say put all the off topic stuff in another forum. we have thought a lot about that. however we always seem to come back to this: one of the reasons the supertopo forum is cool is because its all in once place. other forums are so split up you have to surf around from forum to forum. there is something cool that arises when everything is in one forum. There is also the giant issue of actually sorting through posts and making sure they are in the right place.
There is a balance. Hopefully most people will focus on providing info related to climbing on the forum and just occasionally post about non-climbing stuff. If a person's only interest is in non-climbing topics, I think everyone would appreciate it if that person found a suitable forum out there more appropriate for their interest. There is a online forum for EVERYTHING.
Since anyone can post as many times as they want, there is the ability for a person or group to steer the entire forum to reading what they want by bumping their topics to the top. If a person or group chooses to do that, the forum is no longer as free and open a place because they are taking disproportionate control of what the rest of the forum sees listed on the top. We hope people will not abuse this power and for the most part people don't.
So I will make my annual request to the forum: please err on the side of replying too often with a thoughtful/witty response to a climbing thread you find really informative, funny, etc. And, please err on the side of resisting one liner replies, personal banter, attacks etc to the non-climbing threads.
Thanks to everyone who is making this site a better climbing resource.
 Chris
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 14, 2007 - 12:56pm PT
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Thank you, Chris!
(Unnecessary but symbolic bump - it was second from the top.)
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goatboy smellz
climber
colorado
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:00pm PT
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Your a good one Chris, thanks for keeping it together.
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survival
Big Wall climber
arlington, va
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:02pm PT
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Thanks Chris,
There's plenty of politics on TV these days.
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SteveW
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:07pm PT
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Chris
Thanks for having us and sometimes putting up with our
shenanigans. Much appreciated.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:13pm PT
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Thank you, thank you, gentle Chris Mac.
I'm a relative newcomer. Posting six months, after lurking for a couple of years. Probably pretty typical.
This forum has changed my life. I mean the daily way I live, cycling by here to have a look, often several times a day. I mean connecting with so many folks I haven't talked with in decades. Really menaingful, stimulating idea-churning, campfire talk. I've quoted exciting stuff you guys have said here in articles I've written. Last night I read aloud Jello's amazing Pumori story to my household after dinner.
I've wondered about the politics and the slander taking up bandwidth here, and often enough I've simply taken my beer and walked over to the other side of the campfire where there was still climbing talk. Chris' suggestion that we cool the flaming and the way-OT stuff just a bit is about as reasonable and as mild a request from our benefactor as I can imagine.
Thanks again, Chris. You are, to use your own word, Cool!
doug
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:15pm PT
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Thanks Chris!
The Taco Stand really has maintained it's "virtual campfire" feel, which is just a lost concept on most other forums.
A split forum for climbing/non-climbing would indeed degrade the Taco Stand experience. I guess it would be nice if posters were able to add a flag for climbing/non-climbing. On those days you just can't take another Ron Paul thread you could weed out all the topics marked non-climbing, while still keeping the default appearance of the Taco Stand as the default.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:22pm PT
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I couldn't agree more, Chris.
Thanks for allowing us to play here.
I think I'll post a TR now.
Todd
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:24pm PT
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I agree with Moof. People here should just label their off topic threads as such...(OT). Seems to have worked well so far.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:25pm PT
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Chris said: "There is a online forum for EVERYTHING."
That's what this place is. "Everything"
Other places are too narrow, this place is wide open.
Chris, you are a lucky dude to have all these psychos here unbeknown to your own sense.
This place most likely has the highest number of lurkers of any site. They are your hidden audience.
People come here to see the daily train wreaks for themselves, and shake their heads in disbelief and then go about their lives thinking how they can better themselves.
There's a subtle world along that influences our external.
And there's much more .........
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:38pm PT
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Chris' remarks are gentle and well-taken.
He explains clearly what the problem is with high-volume and off-topic posting. It's that this process quickly drives most climbing content off the first (and second, and third) pages, so interesting discussions die out before they should.
This problem can't be solved, as people keep suggesting, simply by ignoring posts or posters we don't like, or by labeling OT posts as "OT."
It's a structural problem with SuperTopo, which sometimes reminds me of a library in which all books are lined up on one long bookshelf, extending through many buildings -- and where any person at any time can move any book to the front of the line. SupterTopo has many good threads and some stellar ones, but it's not hard for a few people to drag it off in their own directions.
I hope Chris' appeal will get heard, and we all (self included) think about how to help.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Dec 14, 2007 - 01:44pm PT
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I'm certainly guilty of adding grist to the mill when it comes to heated, non-climbing discussion. The blow-up last week, and particularly my own participation, helped me to see what SO many have been complaining about for a long time.
The majority simply doesn't want to read bs threads. All day, all the time. It's like watching a wonderful documentary in television that's been blown to bits by commercial interruptions every few minutes.
I have pledged to myself, and now publicly, to change my behavior and resist dramatic posts that only serve to incite. I've realized nobody really gets anything but irritated by them. The person they are addressed to doesn't hear my message, and therefore, they aren't helpful.
It's not the average off-topic thread that I am referring to. It's the ones where I go off on diatribes. Honestly - I don't think I am ready to "stop" when it comes to general discourse, though if I heard feedback of "Please, Happie - STOP!" from the people here I respect, I think I'd find a way.
I'll do my best, though no doubt I'll stumble on occasion.
Happy Holidays to Chris, and thanks again for the forum and your way of managing it.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 14, 2007 - 02:27pm PT
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Make
An
IGNORE
BUTTON.
Then,
Make
An
INDEX
of
the
REALLY
GOOD
CLIMBING
INFO
HERE.
Then, everyone could have the Taco exactly the way they want it.
What's so bad about that?
One more thing, I used to routinely bump all the climbing stuff I could find to the front page.
IT NEVER STAYED THERE, because people DON'T want it to.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 14, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
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...the daily train wrecks...
Nice turn of phrase, Werner! Ain't it the truth.
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survival
Big Wall climber
arlington, va
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Dec 14, 2007 - 02:56pm PT
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weschrist,
You can't get excited without photos?
In the old days we had a technique to overcome this, maybe you've heard of it.......imagination?
All the best, here's to climbing threads and climbers that keep me sane.
B
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 14, 2007 - 03:23pm PT
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That's why an IGNORE POSTER and an IGNORE thread button would be better wes.
Nobody would have to police anything, or move posts to the right place.
If you didn't like Clash of Civilization, PART 1,258,321 threads, for instance, you'd never see em again.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Dec 14, 2007 - 03:44pm PT
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How 'bout having more than 30 topics on the front page? The way it is now, a topic drops off the page in a couple hours.
Some forums have 100 topics on their front pages.
The TR's and the pics and tales from back in the day are my favorite threads, but by the time I see most of them someone has already posted what I would have posted; "Cool TR!"
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 14, 2007 - 03:55pm PT
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That's a great point chaz.
ST grew so much in the last two years that the front page doesn't hold the good topics like it used to when fewer people were posting.
The back in the day stories and trip reports are a good reason to have an INDEX, so that you could find em without someone having to make a post to get em visible again.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 14, 2007 - 04:13pm PT
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Anyone who thinks they can control the direction a thread will take once it's been posted is a damned fool.
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MarkWoz
climber
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Dec 14, 2007 - 04:13pm PT
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What Werner said!
MW
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 14, 2007 - 04:17pm PT
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YOU can't handle the point.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Dec 14, 2007 - 04:19pm PT
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As long as the thread topic is clear and descriptive I don't care if it says OT or not. Unclear thread topics I just don't click on unless it gets tons of posts and I get curious.
As long as we're posting our feature requests all I'd like to see is being able to tag a thread as good. The more people tag it the higher a thread is rated. So you could sort a search or the forum list by highest rated.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 14, 2007 - 07:53pm PT
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Hey Chris Bro
Just a note of thanks for the wisdom that you employ in providing a forum for us. Aren't young bucks like you supposed to be stupider?
It's a real service to our community that you provide. Thanks
Peace
Karl
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 14, 2007 - 08:02pm PT
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I think it is time to have an "Index" tab on the bar next to "Home," "Climbing Areas," ... "Forum".
The index would hyperlink to the threads in the index, it would be alphabetic and it is possible that there would be multiple links in the index to a single thread... e.g. 'Trip Reports,' 'Obscure Climbs,' 'Andy's Inferno'
You could have have a field on the thread creation page so that the author of a thread could suggest index categories, and have the first order index build automagically (hey khanom, is that possible?). You, or someone, might have to tweak the index from time to time, but it would seem a reasonable way to have the authors build up references to the threads accessible from another angle than the search...
Just an idea, but maybe something functional that would provide another way to browse the Forum content...
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Dec 14, 2007 - 08:12pm PT
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I'm sure my experience here is richer b/c of the stuff that I read that I wouldn't have sought out elsewhere. I prefer to not see separate forums.
And yet, this bears repeating...and bolding too.
"If a person's only interest is in non-climbing topics, I think everyone would appreciate it if that person found a suitable forum out there more appropriate for their interest. "
Thanks for nicely stating your position, Chris.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Dec 14, 2007 - 08:48pm PT
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The whole idea of sorting threads by topic is pointless. You'd have to have a category for "Threads That Started Out On Topic But Drifted Off Into Senseless Drivel." Every thread would ultimately end up in this category. So we would ultimately just end up where we are now.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 14, 2007 - 09:10pm PT
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the whole idea of an index is not to change the Forum structure, just to provide another way of accessing the threads independent of the order of the last post to the thread.
My guess is that the "interesting" climbing threads are mostly short and on topic. The very long "interesting" climbing threads, e.g. stonemasters, etc, are usually pretty much on topic to...
An index would allow access to them quickly, where ever they are in the stack.
There is a lot of dross... my guess is that you don't have to go to them in the index unless the author of the thread was totally deceptive, but then a mild form of "wack a mole" would be to eliminate that thread from the index... which would require a mild intervention (i.e. the thread wouldn't be eliminated from the Forum, just from the Index).
Anyway, I think an Index is a good idea, it doesn't change the Forum much (just adds index tags) and it provides the capability of quickly going to threads that are interesting....
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 14, 2007 - 09:23pm PT
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hey there cris... thanks so very much for appearing here... as i'm new here... i need to see your guidelines...
sure do love learning about all these climbers... at campside and all...
sure do love learning about climbing... and love the climbing threads, so i will try my best to bumb them...
my only trouble that keeps me back from some, is my computer downloads pics very slow...yet, i love these pic-trip post/threads... they ARE THE BEST around...
the campfire, here, though, makes it very real, and alive, and unique... never seen nothin' like it in my life... oh, my...
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Michelle
Trad climber
a camper shell somewhere, soon to be the Carolinas
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Dec 14, 2007 - 09:33pm PT
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Dear Santa-Chris -
Do not change a f_ucking thing. thanks.
to censure the climbing community is silly. to ask climbers to only talk about climbing is silly. Sometimes talking about climbing is downright boring. if that is all you do, well, you need some other stimulation because life will shortly begin to suck ass for you. just a thought here.
However, derailing a thread that is honest and posted in earnest is equally silly and frankly insulting. I have never understood why some people feel the need to slander or start sh#t unnecisarily. ohwell.
if you have a problem with me (or anyone), waste MY (OUR) time and send me (US) an email, rather than slander and cause SHI_T in a forum (unless you want to demonstrate your juvinile nature).
Why bother having registration in the first place?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 14, 2007 - 09:48pm PT
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Derailing, as you call it, or Hijacking, as it is more properly and commonly called, is a high art form that you obviously do not appreciate.
Sometimes stupid threads are hijacked into climbing threads FYI.
Some threads need hijacking.
Some idiots need to be called idiots, otherwise, they might go though life not knowing what idiots they are, and that could turn out tragically.
For example, in NC, where you are moving, some idiot may have broken holds and placements off a climb at Laurel Knob on purpose. Now, if enough people had called this idiot an idiot, he might have gotten the message and felt too insecure and bad about himself to take a hammer to a route.
The thing that would make an index work would be good cross referencing and LOTS of categories. The more in the index and the more info you can get just by glancing at the index heading the more useful it is, as you can get to exactly what you want faster.
A good index would take thread content (and the author) into account as well as the thread title, which sometimes is not very descriptive of what's in the thread.
Anders is working on categories and descriptions as we type, for his meta-threads. I hope if the site engineers do go with any sort of index they will get with anders and try to use some of his work, cause he's already done a huge amount of sorting and categorizing.
And, not for the last time, the Luddites who don't want change won't see anything different. the forum can look exactly the same except for an index button in the menu.
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
a dark-green forester out west
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Dec 14, 2007 - 10:11pm PT
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I think maybe some of you have more time and energy than Chris.
He's out climbing, man!
He's not wanting to sit around indexing and mediating and all that crap!
I wouldn't want to either.
Especially when it's arguably cooler as one big forum.
I like the way he put it.
If you're here strictly for non-climbing topics, there are other forums for you. Bump climbing threads for this CLIMBING forum. And please post OT in the title of the compelling threads that aren't climbing.
Thanks Chris for the annual message - I agree.
Aaron
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Dec 15, 2007 - 10:50am PT
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khanom,
I was just being a bit dramatic, while making a point.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 15, 2007 - 12:11pm PT
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Hear hear! Chris' words are honest and heartfelt, and if people listened McTopo would be a better place.
Or is Chris just pissing into the wind? Will anyone [especially the most annoying] heed his advice?
I've always wanted a separation of Climbing Stuff and Non-Climbing Stuff, but agree everything should stay on one page to maintain McTopo's uniqueness. Could there be a colour coding or something? Asking people to put "Non-Climbing" in their post title seems too much to ask.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 15, 2007 - 12:33pm PT
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Some people just have very low reading comprehension.
Several people are willing to work on creating a good index. Anders is hard at it, and has created a huge list of stuff worth having at your fingertips.
One other person who knows has said an automated index would not be too hard to do.
The only thing that makes a Luddite happy is the same old sh!t, forever. Not only do they not want improvement for themselves, they don't want anyone else to have it.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Dec 15, 2007 - 01:38pm PT
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Just split things up into a few different sections like any other forum. Weeding through all the threads on one page really isn't that great of a "feature." Splitting things into 3 or 4 sections doesn't bury things as much as you think, and you can simply make an "unread threads" button that shows the top XX number of threads with new posts you haven't read. Or you can simply get a PPHP forum package for free or cheap which already does all this stuff.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Dec 15, 2007 - 04:31pm PT
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Merry Christmas, Chris, and thanks for providing this great forum. We all need to try to keep your request in mind through the year.
Also, another thanks for taking me to crags and personally helping me learn the new aid techniques that got my a$$ up El Cap. Five years ago and I am still feeling high!
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Dec 15, 2007 - 07:01pm PT
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Chris,
Great site! It seems to have become the site of record for American climbing. Maybe that's an exageration, but I know a lot of climbers across generations check it out on a regular basis. Newbies can interact with legends. It's inspiring. You've attracted a lot of interesting people, with a strong love for climbing. Your job in overseeing the interaction and moderating is not easy. Your gentle touch is appreciated. Something very powerul and beautiful is happening here. Thanks. Geno
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Dec 15, 2007 - 07:58pm PT
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and here i go bumping another non-climbing thread...
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Dec 15, 2007 - 08:13pm PT
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my annual "don't split the forums," post.
and, I'm with Jody on the PPHP (?) thing. Generification is not what this place needs!
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Ahwahnee Bartender
Big Wall climber
Fog Town
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Dec 15, 2007 - 08:25pm PT
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Hey f*#k all you guys that say PTPP blows.
Respect,
Theo
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Dec 15, 2007 - 10:58pm PT
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Mr. Mac. I'd have to say thanx a bunch! Without this venue I wouldn't have found lost dear old friends, rekindled relationships and otherwise established a renewed vigor for what I had always held most dear...My hat's off to you sir.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 15, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
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It's nice to see that practicing homosexuals like Ahawanee Bartender are welcome here.
IF you doubt my assertion, consider that he wants to f*#k a bunch of guys who think PtHP give blow jobs.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Dec 17, 2007 - 09:50pm PT
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Thanks for the forum Chris.
No suggestions / requests to make it better - you already did that!
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Dec 17, 2007 - 10:44pm PT
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One thing that folks who are tired of seeing dynamite climbing threads flung into oblivion by the OT internecine wars can do is to search for and bump older threads.
Witness as an example Handsome B's "Rock Climbing in Moab" thread:
http://supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=322210&msg=482401#msg482401
Posted in Feb '07, it got ONE reply before going deep six until November. Diamond photos on this thread, check it out if you haven't seen it. Had it not been bumped out of obscurity it would never have been seen by most of us. How many killer threads are still sleeping with the fish?
Consider also the message that is sent to posters like HB, who put time and effort into sharing something that embodies what this site is (ostensibly) all about, only to see it turn leviathan under the weight of a million heaps of reeking, puerile and petty bullsh#t.
My vote is with the change nothing camp, too. Thanks for the site, McNamara. Along with National Geographic, we salute you.
Best of Adventure: Audacious Acts
The wildest deeds of 2007—we salute to the bold, daring, innovative, and occasionally insane feats of the year. Text by Steve Casimiro
Chris Mcnamara Made the Wildest BASE Jump Known
In May Chris McNamara leaped into a cleft in a 3,000-foot (914-meter) face above the polar desert of Baffin Island. Using a nylon "wingsuit," the 28-year-old Californian flew horizontally out of the crevasse, then down the side of the face until he pulled his chute some 200 feet (61 meters) above ground. He landed a mere 100 feet (30 meters) from his tent.
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Mimi
climber
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Dec 17, 2007 - 10:47pm PT
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Chris, thanks for all you do!
That's a big 10-4, Wild Bill!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Dec 17, 2007 - 11:06pm PT
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Generification? A decent forum package allows for an insane amount of customization for both the look, features and layout. Hailing Supertopo's uniqueness is like insisting on using EB's and then talking about how some better performance and options would be swell. We're kind of reinventing the wheel here. Just sayin.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 29, 2008 - 06:06pm PT
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30 threads on the top page, the breakdown:
17 climbing related if I really stretch
9 political
the remainders are either vanity related or geek-show kinda posts...
Sort of discouraging...
Feb 29, 2008 02:59pm Have you climbed Via Ferrata? Matt Mossman 27
Feb 29, 2008 02:57pm Old climbing books tolman_paul 3
Feb 29, 2008 02:56pm Tasteless, but I'm laughing Loomis 5
Feb 29, 2008 02:55pm Name one accomplishment of Obama? JuanDeFuca 6
Feb 29, 2008 02:49pm Obama: this video is unsettling, weird and creepy. WoodySt 9
Feb 29, 2008 02:47pm ElCap Report "Pics Fall 07 " WBraun 47
Feb 29, 2008 02:46pm Old Man McCain seeking endorsements from nutcases dirtbag 1
Feb 29, 2008 02:38pm fascism in America? never! bookworm 22
Feb 29, 2008 02:30pm Need gear beta for Vendetta, Twinkie (Cookie, Yosemite) nutjob 9
Feb 29, 2008 02:28pm January 08' Diet Challenge??? James Durbin 296
Feb 29, 2008 02:28pm Iraq Veterans Against the War(OT) happiegrrrl 135
Feb 29, 2008 02:27pm The most amazing !@#$%^& thing I've ever seen!! Hardman Knott 28
Feb 29, 2008 02:26pm McCain Not Eligible for President? Domingo 24
Feb 29, 2008 02:23pm Action photos? Post 'em up here! Matt 37
Feb 29, 2008 02:22pm This video is insane and so is the climber JuanDeFuca 5
Feb 29, 2008 02:21pm Should we move to the Portal? Rhodo-Router 19
Feb 29, 2008 02:04pm Ibex TR tenesmus 4
Feb 29, 2008 01:59pm Climbing after torn achilles? davidji 6
Feb 29, 2008 01:59pm a bit of a morbid question martygarrison 10
Feb 29, 2008 01:53pm super anal question about writing style marky 30
Feb 29, 2008 01:41pm Lycra appreciation thread... show us your colors! BrassNuts 90
Feb 29, 2008 01:40pm mean ass mule takes out mountain lion. rockermike 9
Feb 29, 2008 01:40pm U.S. Navy proud bluering 176
Feb 29, 2008 01:07pm North dome gully mark miller 12
Feb 29, 2008 12:57pm A short stroll on Mt. Williamson (TR) snowey 3
Feb 29, 2008 12:55pm 36 reasons why Bill thought Monica was a babe... Hardman Knott 38
Feb 29, 2008 12:53pm LAKE TAHOE'S CAVE ROCK CLIMBING CLOSURE BECOMES PERMANANT DHike 74
Feb 29, 2008 12:48pm Obama attended a madrasa (Islamic religious school) ? Majid_S 7
Feb 29, 2008 12:46pm Black and White (photo related) john hansen 95
Feb 29, 2008 12:23pm Red Rocks - avoid the loop road tomorrow March 1st Greg Barnes 2
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Ahwahnee Bartender
Big Wall climber
Fog Town
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Feb 29, 2008 - 06:11pm PT
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Hey did that dirtineye dude just call me a practicing homosexual? Can he do that?
Respect,
Theo
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Feb 29, 2008 - 06:18pm PT
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I'm doing my best to get something done about it.
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Feb 29, 2008 - 06:22pm PT
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Way to step forward UDoug.
Its not right for Dirt to call him that if he does not have somebody to practice with.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 29, 2008 - 06:23pm PT
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Feb 29, 2008 02:59pm Have you climbed Via Ferrata with Obama and Old Man McCain? Matt Mossman 27
Feb 29, 2008 02:57pm Climbing after super torn anal in Portal tolman_paul 3
Feb 29, 2008 02:56pm Proud ass Monica style after unsettling Twinkie diet Loomis 5
Feb 29, 2008 02:55pm Name one accomplishment of fascism in America? JuanDeFuca 6
Feb 29, 2008 02:49pm Tastelss lycra appreciation thread. WoodySt 9
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Feb 29, 2008 - 06:42pm PT
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Well if I did, Theo, I sure hope it made the correct impression on you.
Let's just be certain about this: Yer a frigging fag-boy aid climber. There, is that better?
Of course, I'd rather climb with gay climbers ( and have) than with aid climbers any day.
On the other hand, some of my friends are aid climbers, go figure.
I hope this is climbing related enough.
Let's make sure!
Wall ladders rock!
The best shoes are Megas!
The Best rope is better than the next best one!
Wear a helmet, it might keep your head safe!
Sport climbing is the work of the devil!
New gear is shiny!
Don't go climbing without a harness, unless you forgot your rope too!
An SUV gets bad gas mileage, and won't hold that much crap, so they are not really very good climbing cars!
MMMMM trip reports, good!
Tie knots in your rap lines, so you won't rap off and die!
Learn to tie your shoes!
A cat or a monkey can out climb you, but don't feel bad!
The best camera for climbing is one you can afford to drop and break!
Climbers like to drink a lot, so, bring a lot of beer when climbing!
DO NOT drill a hole in your head or your partner's head and bolt it!
And remember, most of all, if you post a non-climbing thread on ST, you'll go to hell.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 29, 2008 - 09:18pm PT
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yer on.
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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Feb 29, 2008 - 10:55pm PT
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Chris,
I've been around here awhile. One of the first to get a guide book, post beta, and start a flame on the forum. After all this time, I can pretty much discern the climbing threads from the foolishness ones, mostly by the posters.... you know who you are:)
The real bummer is that good climbing pics, clips, and TR's get bumped SO QUICK, that if you don't log on everyday, then you'll miss the good stuff.
Perhaps an intelligent algorithm that will sort, or a radio button for climbing and OT subjects.... Just a thought.
doug
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Feb 29, 2008 - 10:57pm PT
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You got a real cool deal here Chris! Thanx for putting it here for us to abuse...(Just Kidding...!)
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Feb 29, 2008 - 11:02pm PT
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i only look at super topo just for the topo guide to the walls. I really hate the other Bull Sh#t. nothing but climbing is what this super forum is all about.
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quartziteflight
climber
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I love the supertaco. Lots of nutty funny folks, great climbing content,and Sweet beta!
The political threads are way lame!
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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I hear you qflight, people whining about holes in the rock is as political as it gets...a whole is a hole, rock don't care.
No love for "Common Sense Day"? OT...
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Bump, to get it back on top where I believe it should be. Thanks Chris for a place for me to lurk for several years, laugh my butt off sometimes, get info occasionally, and oh yea, inspired by some,(you do not usually know who you are).
Bob
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Gordon
Trad climber
South Florida
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Godamn liberals... you're all the same!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Hey CMac, I'm lookin' for you to reply to my SprayLord thread. Not only is it climbing related, but responding automatically enters you into the comp. Who knows, you might win a guide book...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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I like this forum and I think it should stay the same. I agree that more restraint needs to be shown by some people (me?), particularly on non-climbing threads, but there is a good buzz on the forum.
Anyway, for the most part, the dross (and those that generate it) does disappear fairly fast.
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justthemaid
climber
Los Angeles
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*(sigh)*Everyone around here is stuck in the mud.
Remember when we switched to numbered pages instead of endless thread posts that stretched into oblivion? I seem to remember a LOT of bitching and moaning. Maybe even a few babies who threw themselves down on the floor kicking and screaming and clutching at the old way. How much better is life now that we have page numbers? Gee! Egads!! Page #'s are kinda nice and haven't changed the flavor of the site at all.
Trust me Chris- in spite of your perfectly reasonable request, no one is going to stop posting the way they want to post. My 2 cents: A split into "Climbing" and "Everything Else" would be a good move and I'm sure (almost) everyone in here is smart enough to figure out whether they want door "A" or "B". ST won't lose it's heart and soul if it becomes a tad more organized and everyone can keep posting in the manner they are accustomed to.
Index is a good idea too.
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DHike
climber
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I wholeheartedly support Chris Mac's plea for restraint from incessant babble on this forum.
Just look at the thread titled 'OK so what do we do about it now?", and one has to ask, WTF?
So, either the forum needs an 'ignore' button or be split into two sections, one for climbing related, one for everything else.
Otherwise, the inmates will continue to run the prison.
Just my $.02
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Splitting the forum into "Climbing" and "other" would hardly degrade it and would make it easier to find the posts you are looking for.
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Trad
Trad climber
Northern California
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May 14, 2008 - 09:31pm PT
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I saw a topic about Forum Rules and this thread came to mind. Chris's original post seemed more directed at the political stuff but the spirit of his post still comes through.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 14, 2008 - 09:33pm PT
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I think people overwhelmingly agree that the politics is tolerable, but porn is understood by most to be across the line. That includes partial labia.
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Sanjan
Boulder climber
a prissy pit
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May 14, 2008 - 09:52pm PT
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true that dividing up the forum(s) into many categories lessens the energy level . i hope it will stay in the same format . . and people will heed your post .
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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May 14, 2008 - 10:00pm PT
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seems like a -two tabbed- forum could help kick certain
good aspects into high gear...
simply, climbing and non-climbing
same rules apply, no porn, discretionary use of violent/gore images etc...
chust se kommon senz ztuff
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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May 14, 2008 - 10:17pm PT
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Hey Chris,
I ditto DR, if I'm screwing up, just email me. I'd rather not post than have you split up ST. As a semi-writer and manager I don't think splitting it up would be good for ST.
Werner is poetic as usual.
Khanom, from years of listening around the campfire, even at the Josh Redux lately, I think climbers enjoy relaxing with the slander, then get into talking about the climbs that may have been great fun or sometimes major epics. (We used to call the really good ones Slander Masters back then.)
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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May 14, 2008 - 10:43pm PT
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Agree with Geno
Dirtineye or Stzzo - hate to ask but what is a Luddite?
Even if you split all the stuff up and catagorize etc. I'll still need to check all the threads cause even if they wander, someone can pop in with something REALLY great but not totally related.
CHRIS, I SINCERELY MEAN THIS AND HAVE SAID THIS MORE THAN ONCE. SUPER TOPO THE FORUM AND ALL IT'S PEOPLE HAVE SAVED MY BRAIN AND HELPED KEEP ME ON COURSE DURING ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT TIMES IN MY LIFE.
IT HAS RECONNECTED ME WITH CLIMBING FRIENDS FROM THE PAST AND IS NOW PROVIDING ME WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE WILLING TO HELP ME BRUSH UP ON THE SPORT AND START CLIMBING AGAIN.
Flaws occur and when things go South they tend to do so all at once. Stay the course please. I know you will take time to consider all the suggestions and not over react. God Bless you, you are a special person.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 14, 2008 - 10:51pm PT
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A Luddite was someone in early 19th century England who resisted the encroaching Industrial Revolution, on the basis that it would put many handworkers (e.g. textiles) out of work. Sometimes by smashing the machinery. It's now often used to describe anyone you want to portray as anti-progress/development/change, e.g. "Climbers who oppose the methods which were used to establish Growing Up on the south face of Half Dome are a bunch of Luddites."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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May 14, 2008 - 11:20pm PT
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Bump for the topic. If you care about the Taco take time to read all the posts.
Mighty Hiker, you're back again. Howdy and thanks for the info.
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Chewbongka
climber
लघिमा
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All you political dry humpers can gargle my hairy nargels!
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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We had the same problem at another forum.
So we broke it up.
A Meta section was started.
This contained info, articles, and links to threads in the forum that had specific info on the subject at hand.
Some new guy wants to know how to build a XXYZ box, we had a Meta for XXYZ box.
This way you do not have to surf for a specific thread that is burried deep.
The search engine here could be improved. That would help.
So a Meta section at this forum might contain:
Routes Without Fixed Gear
How to buy a rope
Camping areas near your rock climbing location
Weather forecast for all the popular areas
Which rack for which rock
You get the idea.
Anyone can be the Meta guy for a specific topic.
Then you add stuff to the Meta as new info comes in.
Also, a Classified section really took off.
It gets more traffic than the regular forums.
People always want to make a buck.
So a Buy and Sell section would probably work here.
Someone goes down to REI with his credit card and buys two of everything.
Then he finds out that he is afraid of heights.
So he sells the gear on the forum.
This place needs a room called the 5.15D room, or the Certified Climbers Only room.
Someplace where the heavy weights can kind of be by thewmselves, discussing important topics.
Then there would be the Scramblers Room.
This is where all the B.S. would occur, along with beginners topics, like where can I buy some rock shoes.
That way, the heavies do not have to scroll down to topics that need to stay on top for development.
If you want an example of how this works, check out this forum.
It is a forum I helped develop on vintage and modern recording equipment for the DIY hobby guy.
The Drawing Board is where the heavies hang out, slow scroll, for topic development.
The Brewery is the BS section.
The Lab is for beginners looking for help
The Black Market is where they buy and sell.
Also, please click on the Meta Meta buttons to see what I mean.
This is the best forum of it's type on the web.
So the setup is working pretty good.
http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/
Another idea is to have threads start at the end when you click on them.
I always have to hit the Last button every time but the first time.
Another neat thing is a counter on each thread.
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Chewbongka
climber
लघिमा
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Lynne for Supertopo President!!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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So Dr Rock votes to make this a generic site, noted.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Hey, I knew if I wanted to remain an ST member I better darn well start climbing. lrl
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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People hate change, there was a lot of rejection to splitting up the linked forum, myself included.
But after it was done, everybody like it.
This place could get by with two or three tabs, two if you ditch the buy/sell, which might be ok since people probably do not sell gear that often.
But this place needs at least one more button.
A BS room would take away %90 percent of the posts, and this would leave all the climbing topics in one place.
We took a vote on what to name the rooms.
There are also moderators over there, in case things get real whacked.
I do not see the need for any Mods here, the only time was when the guy got drunk and wanted to punch out the other guy, then they meet at the bridge and the guy ends up helping haul gear.
That was pretty cool, and a indicator that you do not need a moderator here.
OK, so what do I have to solo to get into the club?
Peer pressure has no place in climbing.
It gets people killed.
That is why I will probably be climbing alone, among other reasons.
I did not mean old climbers, I meant experienced climbers.
Which may be young or old.
If you have a well working forum, it can attract some pretty good people.
We have engineers from JBL, MacIntosh, owners of studio equipment companies, microphone builders, you name it.
It took a while, but got to be a pretty good forum.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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I'd like to quote a good friend, Mike, who must have repeated it a hundred times this weekend...
"The sense of community is uncanny!"
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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hey dr rock,
FYI.. If you click the number of replies ( 108 ) instead of the thread title it will take you to the
last page of the thread.
Fish Finder Analogy ( supertopo forum changes ) .........a fine wine ages in a dark cellar, no light, and is only turned a few times before enjoyed.
this forum is just fine as is .
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Fish Finder, I pretty much agree with you. I love this forum as is. lrl
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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This place could get by with two or three tabs
that would have us fried for a bit...
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Wonder
climber
WA
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I just want to see more huckin'..
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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This is the best climbing forum, that is true, so if it ani't broke...
I understand that.
But it is growing like crazy.
So it may be fine now, but believe me, at this growth rate, you will need to add another room.
It might be 6 months from now, but I bet it will happen.
There is a four week wait for the belay class at Planet Granite, if you need proof at the growth rate of this sport.
The best way to handle it, when the time comes, is to take a vote on it, let the forum community dictate the direction.
Thanks for the tip on getting to the last post.
These photo albums are cool, but realize that if you post 10 pics of high pixel stuff, the guys with a 56k dial up are really going to suffer, so it is best to post the pics as links so it does not take 5 hours to view the thread.
This place might go world wide eventually, so those folks in the Outback are really going to suffer.
BTW, Are there some HTML tags for shrinking links at this place?
I hate to explode the screen, but sometimes no choice.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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uh, you got those tabs?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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"This place could get by with two or three tabs,"
-or, even better, without!
Wonder, you realize that photo is off topic and must be buried in the nether regions that D'rock advocates, right?
He is looking out for us, for our own good!
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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How many you need?
You can not get good acid nowdays.
It's all a bunch of strychnine.
Leary just died, so yeah, that Moody's song makes more sense.
Did Owsley have a rock climbing relation?
Finding good acid is as hard as finding those cool metal 35mm film canisters with the screw on lid that are perfect keeping your weed in, remember those?
You don't think the Stonemasters ever ate mushrooms and went out night climbing?
I bet half the FA's in the 70's were "drug aided".
Have you seen Vertical Frontiers?
Cool climbing video.
The inventor of nylon, ie climbing rope, took some bad acid:
":On April 28, 1937, Carothers went to the Experimental Station to work. The following day he committed suicide in a lonely hotel room in Philadelphia by taking cyanide dissolved in lemon juice, knowing that the ingestion of cyanide in an acidic solution would greatly intensify the speed and effect of the poison. He left no note."
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Yeah Jaybro, but it's our leader. MrMac.
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Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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The balance is perfect in all things.
The most freedom produces the zenith of human ability/knowledge.
There are many forums of less freedom which satisfy those who want to efficiently see what they have already learned.
Genuine climbers seek something beyond that.
All those who fear new knowledge do much to prevent others from learning it, for fear of it, especially National Park Service mountaineering rangers and unwise forum moderators.
Enjoy the show.
DougBuchanan.com
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KlimbIn
climber
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Dr.Rocks wrote, among other things:
There is a four week wait for the belay class at Planet Granite, if you need proof at the growth rate of this sport.
Yup this forum is just right for that audience... especially with tabs or rooms or photo albums.
of high pixel stuff, the guys with a 56k dial up are really going to suffer, so it is best to post the pics as links so it does not take 5 hours to view the thread.
When I have a slow connection, I turn off displaying /downloading pictures. You can do that in all the browser's I've ever used. I like the way pictures display right now on here. Clicking this and that tab / album, is a waste of time IMHO.
This place might go world wide eventually, so those folks in the Outback are really going to suffer.
Dang I thought there were only these types of weirdos on the left coast.
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Eddie
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Apologies if it has been suggested or is stupid...
Rather than having two or more sections, could there just be a filter tab on the main forum page:
View All : View Only Climbing : View Only OT
When you create a new thread, you just check a box that says Climbing or OT and it gets tagged that way. That's it.
For the record, I like it the way it is and definitely don't want it divided or complex.
I think that doing the above would leave it just like it is (just never change the default "All" tab), but would add a very simple filter for those days when you want just climbing or just junk.
Pete
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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My vote, as always is to leave it the way it is. Any dividing of the forum won't work because many climbing threads quickly drift toward non-climbing topics. Similarly, many non-climbing threads drift and become climbing threads. No way to prevent this (nor should we imo).
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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The wise see through your BS Jeff.
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Though I tend to agree that we should leave it alone I'd love to see one more tab on top like the Photos and Forum tabs. It would be called Trip Reports.
These threads rarely get turned into anything but a TR. They typically get read but often get not enough responses to keep them floating.
What I'm suggesting isn't really geared towards changing this forum but rather adding a whole 'nother feature to this site.
But it won't happen so that's cool.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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You can always go back to the old style forum if you try something and do not like it.
This place scrolls three to four pages a day.
You want a room that scrolls a page a week, and a room that scrolls a page a day.
The scroll rate today is insane, and getting worse by the moment.
The better the layout, the better the people you attract.
Usually, the "heavies" do not participate in forum politics, they have better things to do.
An extra room means another ad or two that can go up.
The ads here are very unobtrusive, so I am sure nobody would notice an extra ad or two in another room, which means more payback for Mr. Mac. I am sure he likes doing this, but it is a lot of work.
If you have a room that is designated as the BS room, you can go in there and clean the back end out every 90 days to free up server space.
That way you can leave the important stuff on forever.
Funny thing, when we put the BS room up at the other forum, it got more traffic than the topical threads.
I guess people like forums first and foremost, for just shootin the stuff with people they have something in common with.
I mean if you wanna be just a chat room for climbers, thats cool.
But a forum where you could learn something about rock climbing, that would be even better.
Just my 2 cents.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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How about adding just one more tab....and calling it "the Neatly Categorized Version."
When the user clicks on the tab, it takes them over to rc.com....
hyuck, hyuck.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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What does being a good climber have to do with knowing how to run a forum?
Just curious.
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nez
Social climber
confusion
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Doug Buchanan is a certifiable nut job. What a ranting lunatic. Have you read any of this loons web site crap? Holy s#%t.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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As cracko requested it...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 24, 2009 - 02:13pm PT
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the front page, today... ugh... 29 threads...
9 climbing
4 climbing related
6 site related
4 culture
9 politics
I guess I don't have an argument if the climbing threads equals the politics threads though... what a baby I am...
Kennel/dog sitters Banff/Canmore climbing related
Israeli's Nazi's politics
The Obama Team (ot) politics
Get on board hippy--war is cool now politics
We should have elected the Black Pope politics
Lets hear it for Aretha's hat. politics
nationalize the banks? politics
What's a personal *climbing* speed record of your own? climbing related
Posting pictures site related
Hardest 5.8/5.9 in the Valley and elsewhere climbing
Fox and Rush Poisen America (OT) politics
Freed by USA, gitmo prisoner becomes aQ chief. politics
What would you do with a million dollars? culture
I use to suffer fools gladly site related
What is virginity worth? culture
Northeastern edition TRs 2 climbing
a mystery site related
Frank Sacherer -- 1940 - 1978 climbing
This board sucks site related
Ice Slackin' climbing related
mac uninstaller (OT) site related
Foot stuck on Sickle climbing
So this pirate walks into a bar... culture
Bay Area Residents (ot, the cop shooting) politics
BLM Land or private land need climbing related
Climbing around North Carolina and NYC climbing
A Musical Treat culture
Making holds... climbing
Bad virus - Bankerfox.a Machine is dying....help! site related
Orange Juice Avenue - January 18, 2009 climbing
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
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Ed, with all due respect, I'm stuck indoors probably all weekend. Can't I rap politics with my homies? Looking at climbing pics gets old and taunting when you're stuck away from it.
Just sayin'.
The good news is that the same OT threads getting bumped so they're not really bumping climbing threads off. Now if people keep starting new/old OT threads, then I can see your point.
Bottom line is if people demand more climbing sh#t, they'll bump it.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Jan 24, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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All in a lazy morning spewing around the camp fire. Crack of noon alpine club here.
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Jim E
climber
away
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Mar 19, 2009 - 09:07am PT
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Bump, cuz I think Chris may have missed the annual mark.
Chris wrote:
There is a balance. Hopefully most people will focus on providing info related to climbing on the forum and just occasionally post about non-climbing stuff. If a person's only interest is in non-climbing topics, I think everyone would appreciate it if that person found a suitable forum out there more appropriate for their interest. There is a online forum for EVERYTHING."
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 12:07pm PT
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Right on as always, Chris! Personally, I'd rather chase a tale than chase my tail! LOL
Not a single political thread ever started from my keyboard. I am very interested in climbing and climbing history and not at all in politics on this forum. But that's just me.......
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 04:17pm PT
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on the front page of the SuperTopo web site is the motto: SuperTopo.com: the frigg'n future of rock climbing guide info
not that it really matters, but I've been laying low around these parts lately because putting climbing stuff onto SuperTopo Forum seems to have little longevity, attract little attention, and, aside from the intent that this site have something to do about climbing, little to do with the political flame wars.
No doubt that it is the sign of the times, as it were, that one set of discontented voters were replaced by the other, and so the need to beat the drums of moral indignation, shout the outrage, and generally feel bad because the otherwise shitty state of the nation, the economy and all that, have become an overwhelming imperative.
To wit, this site has ceased to be very interesting to me, as its primary interest for me in the past was the fact that something about climbing could be found, and that others on the site shared a common interest.
Now those threads are lost in the sea of vindictive back-and-forth provoked by every rumor, every slanderous statement made in the press... amplified here to a deafening pitch.
As a result, I'm looking here less and less... the idea of putting the work into making a post of value is very unattractive, as it would either be co-opted into some political fight, or drop immediately into obscurity.
I'll be checking in from time to time, my guess is that the site has reached its natural limit where the people most interested in posting are least interested in posting about climbing. Perhaps I'm wrong, and if that's so, I'll be back posting. But right now I can't imagine putting the time in for the current audience.
There are other places which are more climbing-centric, you can probably find my posts there...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 04:25pm PT
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Ed, don't let it get ya down.
But if'n that's the case, you always got a place to post stuff on SPH. :)
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Mar 19, 2009 - 04:30pm PT
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Don't stop posting Ed...you post the quality!
I agree with you though, sometimes it feels pointless...I encourage you to stick with it though...we're gonna get over run with out folks like you
Cheers!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Mar 19, 2009 - 04:30pm PT
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Here is all you really need to know:
When the SuperTopo newsletter comes out, for whatever reason that it does (recruitment of new members? bring lurkers out? drive people to the site/forum?) has it yet said anything like:
New route on El Cap!
Obama is not black enough!
Vets are baby killers!
New feature: Hamas, friend or foe?
New V2 in the Buttermilk!
Bush still biggest wanker in the world.
It only touts climbing, not the political bukkake that seems so important to some.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 19, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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I hate to post to this thread, but since I am posting anyway, hahahah political bukake, dead on!
I have never been to a climbing campfire/party/ whatever where all they talked nothing but climbing.
But I fee llike ed does-- there is TOO MUCH UNRELTED CRAP here. and it's not only unrelated to climbing, it's just STUPIS and WORTHLES selfabsorbed bullshit that NOBODY cares about except to OP.
THere is no cure other than to let someone moderate. and that opens a huge can 0 worms, so, there is probably nothign that can be done.
The huge influx of new idiots to this site over the last sevarl years nhas made the place almost a pain to visit. Stuff that was good used to stay on the from page a long time. Now, it id bumped down even in people are replying by the shear volumes of vapid worthles crap posts.
Oh well.
I'll be dead soon, so my views or actions. (I ain't leaving til I'm dead, too many pal here taht likes to read my drivel for some reason, LOL)really won't have any impact whatsoever, but MAYBE Chris or someone will finally come up with a way to seperate wheat from chaff.
Personally, I still think an ignore button, for each useer, would allow each person to see what they thought was important and ONLY that, and there could always be an exception that serious st guide book threads and meaningful climbing threads cold not be ignored.
BUT, my main gripe is that if you really think that people will lay off the mindless posting just becaus3 you ask them to, you need your head examined, cause you ain't dealing with reality at all.
Sorry Chris, that's just the truth and I wish you would accept that and DO something about the ruin of ST.
5 or 6 years ago it was much better, and again I see the main problem and a huge influx of what I will charitably call misguided morons.
Good luck finding a suitable solution.
Curt
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t^r
Social climber
dancing with puppies
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Mar 19, 2009 - 05:53pm PT
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"there is TOO MUCH UNRELTED CRAP here. and it's not only unrelated to climbing, it's just STUPIS and WORTHLES selfabsorbed bullshit that NOBODY cares about except to OP. "
stop talking about me
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Mar 19, 2009 - 06:07pm PT
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Ed, I am feeling much the same. I look everyday, but little appeals to me. Most doesn't. Do you know where everyone is going to post and read about primarily climbing? If you do, will you please let me know?
I've always thought the taco ebbed and flowed in terms of interesting stuff and not-interesting stuff. When the site was overloaded with political stuff, I knew it would eventually end. But that no longer seems to be the case. Too bad.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 07:23pm PT
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Don't stop posting Ed! Your TR's are the bread and butter of this place. I don't usually comment on them, but I sure enjoy them and they are cool and informative and keep me educated on different Yosemite climbs.
Your posts are what this website should be about. I agree that the LEBification of this place is not cool. I have been guilty as most have, of getting upset over issues best reserved for other sites and by blasting back. If we ignore these people, won't they go away?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 19, 2009 - 07:25pm PT
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Ok, I've been gone for awhile and jumped back in thinking I wouldn't respond to the political ones - well, that went down the tube in about a day. But I value Ed more than the politics so I'm here to personally apologize to Ed and state I will refrain from political posts from this moment on.
Joseph
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Mar 19, 2009 - 07:29pm PT
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take the hint.
everyone....
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 07:36pm PT
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I solemly swear to refrain from my idiotic replys to winter and ski related threads and to respond idiotically only to climbing related topics, so help me gawd. AMEN
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 07:44pm PT
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buncha bellyachers...
I would have never had discourse with Woody (King of OT) if the off-topic stuff was disallowed.
Sometimes it gets too heavy, sure, but it's the typical ebb and flow. When spring hits for good it'll get waaaayyyyy more climbing related.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 19, 2009 - 07:50pm PT
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"As a result, I'm looking here less and less... the idea of putting the work into making a post of value is very unattractive, as it would either be co-opted into some political fight, or drop immediately into obscurity.
I'll be checking in from time to time, my guess is that the site has reached its natural limit where the people most interested in posting are least interested in posting about climbing. Perhaps I'm wrong, and if that's so, I'll be back posting. But right now I can't imagine putting the time in for the current audience.
There are other places which are more climbing-centric, you can probably find my posts there..."
Yeah, the f*#ktard ratio has drastically increased over the last year. RC is worse, because the climbing-related posts themselves are just an endless series of mini-lobotomies. UKC is a better site than most, but it lacks the photo threads.
I don't see much hope, really, for a decent climbing web site. It won't make money. Morons obviously have a higher click-through rate.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 19, 2009 - 07:56pm PT
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Good points kik.
Personally, I would favor simple bifurcation, climbing or no.
(But I enjoy sneaking climbing references into OT stuff.)
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kev
climber
CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 08:21pm PT
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Ed posts quality material to this site. It would be sad to see him go. I worry that this trend could continue and pretty soon the taco strand would be full of more and more non climbing threads. A couple of years ago I bumped a bunch of climbing threads (after encountering on about 1 in 7th of the threads contained climbing info) only to have a sh#t load people get pissed at me. Some a$$hole even spoofed my account name and bump non climbing threads. It's sad that Chris Mac WON'T find a better solution. Notice I say WON'T not can't.
Sad to say but it's probably a financial issue. Most of us who are really into the taco stand are not readers of a supertopo guide book. Some of us may have started that way but in general we probably don't want to know every gear placement etc, so from a business standpoint we may not matter so much. Not sure if that's true or not but it's certainly plausible. Regardless there is no reason why this stuff cant be segregated. Chris Mac's free speech, blah blah blah arguments are pretty much BS. Bottom line - HOW COULD IT HURT TO FIND SOME WAY TO SPLIT THE CONTENT OR AT LEAST GIVE AN OPTION? From an implementation standpoint it isn't that hard.....But this has been visited before and no action has ever been taken.........
So, perhaps we should start our own site? Any takers? DRC you're gonna be out of work soon and we've talked about this before...
Ok there's my spray!!!!!!
kev
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 08:26pm PT
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Pretty sad here about what you have said Ed. My life is pretty much chaos and the Taco and all its great people have been life to me for the past year.
I have great family and friends don't get me wrong, but getting to know you Ed, on the Forum and in real life has lent intrinsic value to my day and the things I face. Your threads on climbing, nature, cars and philosophy etc. keep me thinking.
A person needs a kaleidoscope of people in their lives to keep them centered and balanced...imho.
Again imho, politics are hateful, hurtful and divide. No one is going to convince another to "come over". Laws, rules and regulations won't help us or our planet. Only how we take care of one another.
Dr. Hartouni, I sure do wish you will not depart. Some of us need your grace, wisdom, humor, perspective, knowledge and more in our lives for a variety of reasons. :D
lynne
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Mar 19, 2009 - 08:29pm PT
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"But I fee llike ed does-- there is TOO MUCH UNRELTED CRAP here. and it's not only unrelated to climbing, it's just STUPIS and WORTHLES selfabsorbed bullshit that NOBODY cares about except to OP. "
Somehow, I'm gonna wager that Ed's thoughts are a little more succinct than that and probably have a lot better grammar.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 08:36pm PT
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Somewhat on topic, whoever's posting as "t^r" ought to stop doing so - even if few are likely to confuse her/him with t*r, none are likely to be amused. If the fake avatars went away, and there was a little less about politics (mea culpa), religion, poker and such, and more about climbing, SuperTopo would be improved.
And I'd be really sorry if Ed was to spend less time here.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 08:37pm PT
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kev, I might be interested in that endeavor with you.
DRC prolly has the web-design experience though.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Mar 19, 2009 - 08:49pm PT
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I keep hoping that I will get back in shape so that I can post more climbing threads/posts.
In the meantime, there is one troll that gets on my nerves but jut a bit,, and I know from past threads/posts, she gets on other people's nerves. She isn't even a climber, nor has ever been. Apparently she feels that the late Woody was her champion, so that gives her the right to spout her BS. I just wish she would go away. Permanently. She contributes very little at the end of the day, if you look over all of her thousands of posts.
Ha, ha ha, you know who you are.
BTW, I do not lose any sleep over you troll, mainly because you are just crap.
As for me, I will do my best to refrain from posting to non-climbing threads, but I do like the discourse with most of you,
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rwedgee
Ice climber
canyon country,CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 08:52pm PT
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Yes, she is on my "ignore" button also. When it gets here. Please hurry.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 19, 2009 - 09:02pm PT
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OMFG you people are some whiney ass bitches sometimes.
A lot of the same people bitching right now start dumb ass threads about stupid stuff also. Big fuking deal, I could care less.
If it's stupid and dumb move on .....
This place ebbs and flows as some others up thread have said.
There's a guy bumping a whole series of threads right now and that doesn't do sh'it either, another stupid thing to do.
I live in a saturated climbing conscious area and for the most part actually avoid most climbers because how narrow minded and boring they are. It's always climbing this and climbing that.
No fuking life, just endless drones talking about some stupid climb. When I get off the rock at the end of the day I'm done being a climber.
Life comes from life .......
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 09:51pm PT
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I think some of you might have got it wrong, I'm not advocating any change to the STForum, like Werner said, we are much more dimensional than just climbing. I'd like to go out climbing with Werner do that thing AND talk about the comparison of ancient Indian philosophy to modern western scientific thought...
...it used to be that we had a balance, but I find more and more that people just discuss the non-climbing stuff. There are some recent posters who haven't posted on anything else but politics. Maybe they're climbers, or do climbing related things... even LEB posted about climbing at first... some just don't. And their numbers are growing.
Now a lot of you like that, I say good, fine. But we all make personal choices on how to spend our time. Events reported on STForum of late underline the importance of every bit of that time. And for my own personal choice, STForum is less important as the number of acerbic off topic threads grow.
I'm not asking anyone to do anything about it... but really, I'm taking a pass at the campfire and just doing something else. The conversations really don't light my fire.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 19, 2009 - 10:13pm PT
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I've participated in many different forums due to a variety of hobbies, and they all ebb and flow. It seems there is a point where everyone gets along even with the occasional off topic thread, because there is the common bond that brings us together. Then a few loud drunks show up and ruin the party.
I've really enjoyed the taco as I get to read posts by folks I looked up to when I was a kid just getting into climbing. It's especially cool to be hitting middle age, still climbing, and seeing folks decades older then me climbing hard, totally inspirting. Also cool is conversing with those folks.
But, the o/t bs has really put a damper on this place. I think it especially hits hard due to loosing Woody. When you loose someone close to you, it puts everything in perspective. And that perspective is that all this petty bs is absolutely worthless.
The mindless bumping of old threads doesn't seem to help, just jumbles up threads you were trying to follow.
And, some of us are still somewhat snowbound and not quite on the rocks yet. I tried to get on my first rock route at lunch, but a combination of air temp of 20 degrees, and not quite having my head on for a lead roped solo didn't get me past the crux. Too many reasons to go down, especially watching my watch to make sure I didn't miss an after lunch meeting.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 10:21pm PT
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If this is the online campfire, conversation would always head toward politics and other topics. What's wrong with talking politics with your friends?
The beauty of the taco, is you can choose which conversation to join and you can choose which writers to read. There are some people I skip now that I know what they are going to say.
At a real campfire we'd have to listen to the load mouth. Here's there's much more choice.
The Taco, it will do what it's gonna do.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 19, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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hey nefarious, nice to see youu living up to you sh!tty name. now go fvck yourself.
Try taking 1/8 the drugs I have to take and see if you can even figure out how to turn on your pc. IDIOT.
But to address the ot subject, it's not that OT things are bad, soem are really good threads, even some of LEB's threads are really good.
IT' just that there are TROO MANY NEW POSTS EVERY DAY, many of them totally pointlees and meaningless to anyone but the OP, (not talking about you tr, haha) and so a site that once was small and cozy has become a huge unmanageable mess of threads that makes it really hard to keeep up with the ones yuo are interested in.
HEnce, the IGNORE button, which I have explained over adn over aagin, to no avail, but which would be a near perfect solution, and woudl certainly be better than what is here now.
Oh Werner, god you are so off base. I think you miss the whole point of the thread. briefly, the site owner askes that people make more climbing posts adn fewer OT posts. so I gues according to you he doesn't get it eitherm, and is a whiner for complaining about the way the site is going. Hmmm. OK no recopute and see if you ahve a different comment.
SO to recap:
Fvck you Nefarious.
OT is good in the right amounts, don't kill it.
Demand the Ignore button today, and make the worlds (and ST) a better place for all except the cretins who just have to inflict thier breand of crap on everyone.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 10:38pm PT
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WBraun wrote:
When I get off the rock at the end of the day I'm done being a climber.
Amen to that!
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 10:44pm PT
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I've learned so much from off topic threads. One time, I asked for medical advice, and within 20 or so posts, I had a real doctor giving me tips. It took a while and half the people called me an idiot but the advice was great.
With out the the taco, I used to see LMAO and think la- mow what the f*#k does that mean. Now I would say wtf does that mean.
Climbing posts do rule, but like Werner says, how much can you really say about it. That route was sweet! I can't wait to do that route!
That doesn't mean I don't straight to the TR for the photos, that's what I do. EC posting on obscue Southern Sierra Routes? Come on?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:03pm PT
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Look how the complaints roll in when a genuine Sherpa pops up and wants to talk about Everest. Two dozen Cali's leap on him and strangle him within the first 10 minutes. What kind of a welcome did HE get?
WTF are you talking about? Nobody "popped up and wanted to talk about Everest".
The forum was hijacked (as the site owner put it), by a relentless bombardment of SPAM.
Get real...
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:05pm PT
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Threads that devolve into Forumites talking about, and criticizing one another seem to be just about as popular as the political threads.
Probably more.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
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gezzz, I actually accidentally ran into Nefarious on the top of a rock at J. Tree. Didn't even know who he was. He was helping a gal learn crack climbing and his vibes were nice...so I said howdy. Found out later it was Nefarious and a nice Dude.
Why are some so edgy and negative tonight...? Yikes, be glad yo alive. Or be glad for something. Lynne
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:28pm PT
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holy shnikes!!!! Lois may have a point.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:33pm PT
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Winter coupled with an emotional election, change in ruling party and economic problems probably explains a lot of it. Some off topic stuff is fun, fills gaps and is often at least "climber lifestyle" related. I am sometimes amazed at the breadth of knowledge here. I'd say major political/current events deserve a spot. That said, there are some current thread starters, just passing poo being the worst, that never have any thing to say about climbing, or anything constructive to say at all, that drag down the site.
I'm relatively new, but quality seems to ebb and flow. I was getting tired of the site because of the political stuff in November and then wham- those amazing fist ascent of the totem pole pictures came up.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:46pm PT
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Dammit Ed - don't you go and pussy out on us here - your input and photos are too important to leave us with nothing but political and religious circle jerks.
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Mar 20, 2009 - 12:12am PT
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Rule #1: Don't engage the "byte wasters".
Rule #2: See rule #1.
Long live Trip Reports!!!
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Daphne
Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
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Mar 20, 2009 - 12:53am PT
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The tacostand does not suffer Noobs gladly. More lurkers would post on climbing threads if it weren't for this, imho. Not that I am saying things should change, but merely contributing a reason for why political and non-climbing threads proliferate. You don't have to have 20 years of climbing experience to debate the policies of the current administration.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 20, 2009 - 01:16am PT
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well I really hate trip reports, can't understand why anyone woudl write one or waste time reading one. Climbing is about climbing, and to me, that means, I go climbing, I like it, and I don't see any point in a trip report unless I am promoting an area, which is still a bit lame.
I mean, how many trip reports can you really stand?
How many shoe threads? How many what's the best rope threads?
Yes as someone said, losing woody brings things into focus a bit.
I didn't know woody, but I st-know a few of his good pals, and I can only imagine how they feel.
IT sucks htat posts about woody's accident, which are actually realavant and important and might help someone in the future, and bumpe off the top buy incessant mindless posts of any sort.
Again, the problem is too much volume and no way to sort topics by relevance. again, 6 years ago, this was not hte case, but times have changes, and st needs to adapt or continue to frustrate a lot of the users.
As for who buys a guide book or uses one, HEll I bought that alaska book, for one to support chris nad the site, for another cause I'll never make it there and I enjoyed the pictures, and three, cause I fewlt a little obligation to pay at least somethign for the service of st. yes it is a service, and despite the ads, yo uare using it for free if you have not bought anything from the site. If you like being a free loader, fine, just realize that that is the case. remember also that ST has value, and all that that entails.
haha thanks HK, but still our love can never be, old chum.
Lois does havea point. but here's an additional point that seems a good corellary to the idea that people who are intersted in a climbing thrad shoud start one, and people who clainm to like those threads shoud post to em.
point tow is, maybe they are, but because of the volume of crap posts, plus the MORE voluminous replies that certain onher threads get for good or ill, the climbing posts are still overshadoewd and fall from the top page.
sort of like when rethuglicans deregualted teh once highly regulated speucation on futures market and the price of oil-- it turns out that teh entities that actually USE oil and MAKE thins gs from it liek gas, jet fuel, plastics, heating oil dtc, were comprising just 5% of the futures market, while paper pushers only out to make a buck comprised the other 95%.
Now, just which group do yoou think controlled the market?
same thing on st. Therefore I call for MORE REGULATION of threads, LOL. before everything goes to hell. hehe.
How's that for a segue?
Do I win a prize???? Do I??? Do I?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 20, 2009 - 01:23am PT
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Lois, you are too much...pro in a nice way BUT yo always get peeps off topic on a thread. I almost said I never, hardly ever cry, ever. But this is a Chris Mac MY Annual Post About Non-Climbing Threads"......so ....climb on. Lynne
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 20, 2009 - 01:37am PT
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Ed- you and I were among the few scouts to take the scout argument to the end. It is off topic, but central to the wilderness and climbing heart of the sport.
Rox- You know you are an as#@&%e on some things, but I got your back.
Woody, was the same way. He'd shake it up to make a few points.
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Mar 20, 2009 - 01:34pm PT
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Puttin it back up front for all to see. Maybe someday they will get it?
Bob
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Apr 16, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
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They'll never get it. *shrug*
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Feb 12, 2010 - 10:10am PT
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Since all the "rant n rave" threads drove this off the front page during the night.......
bump
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Feb 12, 2010 - 11:53am PT
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Base wrote: "Does anyone think that climbers only talk about climbing"
dude, have you ever been camping in the valley?
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MH2
climber
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Feb 12, 2010 - 03:55pm PT
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I would just like to be able to toggle between 2 ways of listing threads:
1. The way it is now, with the most recently posted-to thread moving to the top.
2. Same deal but now only threads I have previously read.
It shouldn't be hard to implement since threads I have read are already highlighted, so they are being tracked by the software. Just please allow me to view those threads only if I want to.
Or is it already possible to do that?
It might be nice to de-list a thread I view and don't want to see more of, also.
And a third list view of threads I posted to?
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Feb 12, 2010 - 06:24pm PT
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Kev I agree..in the valley it is world politics...someone is always asking if you have a current paper or if you have heard an update about something.
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 12, 2010 - 07:52pm PT
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@MH2
I would just like to be able to toggle between 2 ways of listing threads:
1. The way it is now, with the most recently posted-to thread moving to the top.
2. Same deal but now only threads I have previously read.
It shouldn't be hard to implement since threads I have read are already highlighted, so they are being tracked by the software. Just please allow me to view those threads only if I want to.
That's your browser tracking which links you have visited, has nothing to do with the forum software. Doing what you propose is a non-trivial addition (not to mention a ton of data to track.)
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
شقوق واس
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Feb 12, 2010 - 08:16pm PT
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You don't have to change anything if you JUST DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
Easy money. Just Don't.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 12, 2010 - 10:34pm PT
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This deserves to be at the top again.
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MH2
climber
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Feb 14, 2010 - 12:29am PT
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I would just like to be able to toggle between 2 ways of listing threads:
1. The way it is now, with the most recently posted-to thread moving to the top.
2. Same deal but now only threads I have previously read.
It shouldn't be hard to implement since threads I have read are already highlighted, so they are being tracked by the software. Just please allow me to view those threads only if I want to.
That's your browser tracking which links you have visited, has nothing to do with the forum software. Doing what you propose is a non-trivial addition (not to mention a ton of data to track.)
If only there were a machine designed to keep track of lots of data.
In the meantime, perhaps the solution is near at hand. If ST keeps track of all posts to threads and my browser keeps track of which threads I've viewed maybe we can work out a deal.
However, it sounds as though keeping track of new posts to only those threads I have previously posted to may require a third possibility which we haven't even considered yet.
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TMO
Trad climber
Puyallup, WA
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Oct 26, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
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Bump!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Moses, or at least his stand-in, speaks in the first post.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Bump this to the top--GO AWAY SPAMBOTS!!!!!!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 29, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
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Palin/Bachman Bump
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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bump
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Tahoe climber
climber
Davis these days
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Just re-read CMac's original post, and skimmed down a few for curiosity's sake to Doug Robinson's reply.
So cool to see that cat responding and approving!
Something he said resonates with me; that about if standing at an actual campfire when folks got all fired up and discussing politics, et al, he'd take his beer and go to the other side of the campfire where hopefully other people were still talking about climbing.
Very cool
TC
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
|
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Thanks for bumping this.....bump
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Forums have a life cycle. They start off hot and on topic with lots of interesting people and commentary. Then they go off topic and are dominated by a few. Then they die. ST is probably past the peak.
I am sure that Chris Mac can see the history of traffic on the forum. It would be interesting to see what it looks like.
I stumbled onto SummitPost 10 years ago (member # 2312 of 26585 as of today) and loved it. Famous climbers and lots of cool posts. It basically died a few years ago.
ST will die too and may have already started to do so. The prime topics have been discussed, the old stories told and some of the best, like Doug, seldom post anymore.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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"ST will die and may have already started to do so."
Oh, happy dagger! We're all gonna die, Banquo.
But there's a lot of us would deny that.
Climbers need to feel immortal, otherwise...
This Post is a great example of rising from the dead.
Someone's ghoulish enough to ressurect this.
We should consider all of us to be in charge of rescuing topics.
It's not Chris' job, it's all of ours.
It is our forum, directed by CMac (the most gentle of hosts, I must bump that sentiment), but as good guests we are expected to pitch in and help with the dishes wonce in a while.
We could do with spelling police, though. It's atrocious around here.
If good spelling were good protection, most of us would be dead. LOL
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Summitpost... died cause a few MODERATIORS took over and started chopping up other peoples posts, causing a huge confusion. It was a lot like ST in that it had "regulars" who would toss in thier .02$ worth - within seconds of the original post. These few were very nasty and mean with comments and outright lies. It was sad to see it go that way because lots of international climbers used it.
C MAC for president 2012
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
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Is this a non-climbing thread? (OT)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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And I thought I was the only other poster that read Macbeth.
The Taco cannot die! With all the geezers the smell would be terrible!
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slodog
Trad climber
ontario canada
|
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thank you chris for providng this forum -i'm bassically a lurker and i love the trip reports-i rarely pay any attention to the nonsense threads never mind reply to them-i guess its hard to have an open forum without that bs-but it sure wont keep me away cause the meat of what goes on here is informative and inspiring-thank you
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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what he said:
Dec 14, 2007 - 10:13am PT
Thank you, thank you, gentle Chris Mac.
I'm a relative newcomer. Posting six months, after lurking for a couple of years. Probably pretty typical.
This forum has changed my life. I mean the daily way I live, cycling by here to have a look, often several times a day. I mean connecting with so many folks I haven't talked with in decades. Really meaningful, stimulating idea-churning, campfire talk. I've quoted exciting stuff you guys have said here in articles I've written. Last night I read aloud Jello's amazing Pumori story to my household after dinner.
I've wondered about the politics and the slander taking up bandwidth here, and often enough I've simply taken my beer and walked over to the other side of the campfire where there was still climbing talk. Chris' suggestion that we cool the flaming and the way-OT stuff just a bit is about as reasonable and as mild a request from our benefactor as I can imagine.
Thanks again, Chris. You are, to use your own word, Cool!
doug robinson
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
this place is TAME compared to some sites in my industry,,, TAME...
...even when compared to some other climbing sites.
Curt
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Jim Hefner
climber
La Verne, CA
|
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Not too poop in my own room but....
Banquo: Forums have a life cycle. They start off hot and on topic with lots of interesting people and commentary. Then they go off topic and are dominated by a few. Then they die. ST is probably past the peak.
I am sure that Chris Mac can see the history of traffic on the forum. It would be interesting to see what it looks like.
I stumbled onto SummitPost 10 years ago (member # 2312 of 26585 as of today) and loved it. Famous climbers and lots of cool posts. It basically died a few years ago.
ST will die too and may have already started to do so. The prime topics have been discussed, the old stories told and some of the best, like Doug, seldom post anymore.
I mostly agree with him...
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
|
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It's been said before in this thread, and I can't think of a better way to say it, this forum is like a camp fire. Im kinda a loner, so I circle around the dark perimeter and sample some of the conversations, skip the ones that don't interest me, marvel at the unceasing idiocy of humankind, and occasionally i am inspired at the rare wonders of achievement and insight.
Chris started the fire, and as a moth to flame, I am drawn. The only way to deflect
me is to extinguish the flame. Personally, I find the pleasure outweighs the pain.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Forums have a life cycle. They start off hot and on topic with lots of interesting people and commentary. Then they go off topic and are dominated by a few. Then they die. ST is probably past the peak.
Sound reasonable but just isn't true. ST was vulgar and uber-flaming back in the day. Now there are many historical figures in the sport posting here and when there is a subject of climbing topical interest, we get a great community discussion and lots of history is recorded here that is nowhere else. It's important enough that even Cerro Torre got discussed here in a serious way by participants in the controversy
But you can't have that every second. Other times you have John Long discussing God and others relating the important issue of our time. It's a campfire and an ecosystem of communication.
Anyone know of a better place?
Peace
Karl
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
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Hey, Anxious, good to see you're back. Hope you're doing okay.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
For better or for worse, this is still my main haunt on the Internet. Overall the quality has gone up a lot in my opinion, thanks in large part to Dr F corralling the politics and religion and god and science stuff. I see the number of posts on the thread keep growing, and it's always somewhere near the front page in case I'm curious (it has happened a few times), but in general I don't have to get any of it on me.
The forum is working for me, there is new blood posting awesome trip reports, and I've got a backlog of my own TRs coming now that I've resolved some technical issues on my PC.
And Cmac just chimed in with a nice mapping website that directly helped plan my next week. I'm fat dumb and happy for now.
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MisterE
Social climber
|
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Bump because Duardo and others are just spewing the same-old, same-old and think it is new because it is THEIR TOPIC.
And still we respond, and as such it continues.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
|
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SPLIT THE FORUM.
There is a reason most forums have topic rooms. It works.
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
|
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I think the problem is that most of us don't climb as much as we used to, but we still want to hang out with the ones that do.
I miss Doug's input, and stories too.
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jstan
climber
|
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SPLIT THE FORUM.
There is a reason most forums have topic rooms. It works.
And how are they doing as compared to the traffic on ST?
You have noticed how fast trip reports fall off the front page?
How many times do you pull up a thread just because others are interested in it and found something really interesting? A lot. Even when you have no interest in the topic. I'll even pull up one of those god awful chest beating threads, perish the thought, and find great comments.
The sites split up 98 ways are not worth the effort it takes to look at them.
We all have favorite posters. There might be a useful tool to add to search. One that pulls up all the recent posts by authors on one's list of favorites. I do it one by one all the time but that tends to be laborious.
Another idea. New posters often start threads to gain more attention. Might there be a requirement that one has to have been logging onto or posting on the site for N months before one can start a thread? That would help reduce the number of political threads.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
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jstan- The problem with a wait period is that the reach of our forum is wide and lots of folks find it while looking for historical information and need an immediate response. The Gary Hemming thread is a good example.
We don't want to discourage participation.
Posters simply need to put themselves in Chris' position as lord of this CLIMBING forum. Incivility and coarse dialog chases good folks away as happens to any forum. Wet tee shirt threads do the same.
This forum is what WE make it, simple as that. Climbing content needs to drive it to keep Chris interested in continuing to host our glorious little mess. If it stops being worth his time and money then it may cease to be.
Degenerate political rant therapy gains Chris nothing.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
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Thanks Dingus.
I have to reign myself in just like everybody else. I get posts yanked now and then while heckling new political posters.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
|
Original post bump
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Gene
climber
|
|
We all love trip reports. But they have the highest views to comments ratio. The problem is that there are few things you can add beyond TFPU, bitchen, way to get after it, gnarly, and so on. TRs are very enjoyable but generally difficult to contribute something fresh to. I wish there was a way to keep them on the front page longer. Something like getting bumped to the top of the heap every X views.
g
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
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^^^^ good points, and I like that idea
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
|
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Maybe have a tab for traditional "sort by latest contribution" and a different tab for "sort by latest views" to see what is most popular at the moment. For example, under the Forum tab have a link "Most Active" and another link for "Most Popular"
There is room for both approaches.
Then there's the whole categories, tags, letting people create filtered views using those tags, etc....
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Sep 20, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
|
bump
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
|
You have to admit, the Werner multiplying birthday threads are pretty funny.
bump for zBrown and Hartouni
hahahahaha
EDIT: and of course Herr Braun. Where would the ST be without him?
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
|
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Oh no!!!! Election season :( I wanna hear more about climbing.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
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and Steve McKinney:
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
this is one of the best forums on the internet
don't mess it up
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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|
Bump, in honor of E.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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|
[quote
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Oct 3, 2012 - 08:49pm PT
this is one of the best forums on the internet
don't mess it up
[/quote]
Tom.... what do you mean one of the best??
Nothin else is even in the same league.
What? MP, RC, SP??? those places with the MODERATERS doing most of the posting???
Taco rules.
Thank you C. Mac
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Da_Dweeb
climber
|
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|
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
|
Wait, hang on, what's this "non-climbing thread" nonsense? I'm not sure that's actually a "thing" on this forum anymore.
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
|
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Jul 19, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
|
yes please QITNL!! let's see your pictures!
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Da_Dweeb
climber
|
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Jul 19, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
|
Sadly bud, I'm coming to agree with you.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
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Jul 19, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
|
Sadly bud, I'm coming to agree with you.
Me too.
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
|
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Jul 19, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
|
If we each bump a half dozen climbing post a day, maybe we can make a point.
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
|
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Jul 19, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
|
make that a few dozen.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 19, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
|
I continue to post to Supertopo, am I tacitly condoning and supporting all the ignorant and disgusting garbage posted here?
NO
Your 1/2 dome pics will be looked at by future climbing parties who search the web.
Get into any topics at your own risk, some are fun, some are nasty and in some the folks might just hate you and call you names...
It's a lot like life, but more like climbing.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
|
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Jul 19, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
|
Leeper, it's been proposed and done several times. Didn't even make a dent. I wish it had.
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
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Jul 19, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
|
yeah I was dreamin'
Stick around climbers, please.
Don't post on the political and religious thread, not much else we can do.
Survival, I really enjoy your threads, don't go!
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
|
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Jul 19, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
|
Wow QITNL, beautiful pictures!!
What does QITNL stand for, anyways?
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
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Jul 20, 2013 - 12:04am PT
|
yeah treez, I don't climb much these days either and I post to OT post sometimes too.
I hate purist.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Middle-of-Nowhere, Arizona
|
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Jul 20, 2013 - 01:08am PT
|
to quote Mark Hudon,
jeez... sometimes it's simply embarrassing to think that I participate in this forum....
I would tend to agree
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
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Jul 20, 2013 - 01:46am PT
|
I do worse things
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
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Jul 20, 2013 - 03:08am PT
|
Nice post Mr. Lillegaard
We can all agree to disagree on a certain topic.
That's freedom.
But when we disagree to agree on the style of that presented topic.
That's communism.
If you don't like the way the words are presented, move on.
Ur blaming other peoples words for your actions.
Foremost, this is a chat room of adventure.
Step out to the edge!
Or stay home!!
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
|
I'm with you guys, when someone like rSin posts a minimum of 50 times a day to all kinds of garbage threads it is near impossible to keep up. Thanks eKat for bumping a bunch of awesome climbing threads the other day, I got to see a lot of cool stuff before they fell away.
Out of control OT posters should be banned as to avoid on topic posters from getting annoyed & walking away. Mixing it up is fine, but when all you are doing is ranting constantly on OT threads you are useless to this place IMO.
Maybe a second forum would be good? On topic or off topic? Seems simple enough & an easy way for any type of poster to wade thru what they consider to be the junk.
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Gregory Crouch
Social climber
Walnut Creek, California
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
|
People should post with their real names. I'll bet accountability would make most of the insults and flame wars disappear.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
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Jul 20, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
|
I dunno, I have my name and picture here and it doesn't stop me... :) hehe.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
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Jul 20, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
|
rSin is yet another nameless, faceless and dickless coward. The sooner he is nuked, the better.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
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Jul 20, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
|
rSin is yet another nameless, faceless and dickless coward. The sooner he is nuked, the better.
But SOME dickless cowards can stay, right? I kinda like it here :D
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
|
Sometimes, getting more often, the Forum feels like hanging out at 2 a.m. on a street corner as the hard scrabble bars have just closed down, and one wonders if knives will appear; compared to sitting around the "campfire" where beer and a few joints have softened the razor sharp edges of opinion diversity. Robust discourse is great, but some of the ugliness that is manifest on ST ...well three letters, ick.
Susan
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
|
It really would be nice if there was even just a little bit of moderating.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
|
I've started a bunch of OT threads, and for the most part, they have been positive. I started a couple that turned into junk shows, so I removed them. I caught flak for doing so, but I really don't care.
OT threads can be really fun.
Case in point, my swimming thread. It doesn't relate to climbing, but climbers like to swim and huck themselves off of stuff. Should I remove it?
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10b4me
Ice climber
Middle-of-Nowhere, Arizona
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
|
I agree 100%, Mark.
|
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
|
Case in point, my swimming thread. It doesn't relate to climbing, but climbers like to swim and huck themselves off of stuff. Should I remove it?
I'm just one voice in the chorus, but I enjoy many of the OTs, it's when words that are used and tones are created that reasonable people would say is just ugly and, I think, meant to inflame and get a reaction and attention. One could say well just ignore it, don't read it etc etc, but when the swimming pool gets too pull of piss after awhile you just don't want to swim in it....sad...as others have pointed out, many have left.
Susan
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10b4me
Ice climber
Middle-of-Nowhere, Arizona
|
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Jul 20, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
|
I am so glad that rsin is gone. I would like to see Craig Fry, and especially Joe Hedge banned also.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
|
rSin needed a blowie and a joint like none other.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Middle-of-Nowhere, Arizona
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
|
Brandon, I was just discussing this with someone who post here. That person is embarrassed by the vitriol on the political thread.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:38pm PT
|
Brandon, I was just discussing this with someone who post here. That person is embarrassed by the vitriol on the political thread.
For good reason.
I still chime in here and there, but it's devolved into a real dog and pony show. Too much hate, not enough substance.
I'm kind of over the discussion here, most of the people I talk with are Facebook friends now, lame as that is.
So, ST is fun to argue with Ron A, and get beta.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
|
OT is ok sometimes, but when it's OT all the time you have issues.
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MisterE
climber
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
|
It really would be nice if there was even just a little bit of moderating.
As mentioned, rsin is gone, but there actually is a pretty good level of moderation for over-the-top avatars. Many iterations of Burchey were chased down and closed until he decided to play nice.
Other people have been suspended for various violations, and others have been let back.
I think the methodology is valid: allow people to go over the line, but shut them down if they do.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
|
rSin's gone??
My guess... they finally tracked his IP back to Pate's house.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
|
|
|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
|
If ALL the "political rants and commentary" were consolidated in ONE thread, if ALL the "Daily (nonclimbing) news" threads were consolidated into ONE thread, there would be so much less clutter. I don't click on those threads much anyway but they do tend to take over page one.
I love some of the off-topic threads that build community in a positive way.
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WBraun
climber
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
|
Supertopo is full of crybaby losers.
Whaaaaaa .... somebody said too much have him banned.
Sh!t I can't believe all you crybabies.
Americans are babies.
Putin will come and take over America and kick your crybaby asses ......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
|
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|
Jul 20, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
|
Supertopo is full of crybaby losers.
Yeah, and one dipstick. ;)
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jstn
Trad climber
monrovia, ca
|
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|
Jul 21, 2013 - 01:00am PT
|
cool
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
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|
Jul 21, 2013 - 01:10am PT
|
Ban that goose..or at least ban him to the non-smoking section....RJ
|
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MisterE
climber
|
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|
Jul 21, 2013 - 01:12am PT
|
Ban that goose..or at least ban him to the non-smoking section....RJ
Or the non-drinking section -
Or the non-political section -
Or the non-religious section -
Or the non-racial issue section -
Or the non-sexist section...
choose yer non-climbing poison.
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|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2013 - 05:56am PT
|
I like the non-climbing threads, it makes me feel a part of a wide community, and I know, since 2005, I have not started many climbing threads, but I contribute to other people's climbing threads and non-climbing threads.
Actually, I am going to start a thread about the late Helen Thomas, of course it is non-climbing, but I have been a journo for some 40 years in five countries and I admire this woman, she took on presidents.
Also, I like the following from the RSN Reader forum:
We are concerned about a recent drift towards vitriol in the RSN Reader comments section. There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. No one likes a harsh or confrontational forum atmosphere. At the same time everyone wants to be able to express themselves freely. We'll start by encouraging good judgment. If that doesn't work we'll have to ramp up the moderation.
General guidelines: Avoid personal attacks on other forum members; Avoid remarks that are ethnically derogatory; Do not advocate violence, or any illegal activity.
That sounds sensible to me and what CMac is trying to get across on this forum.
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MisterE
climber
|
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|
Jul 21, 2013 - 09:33am PT
|
LOL - good one, Dingus! :)
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10b4me
Ice climber
Bishop/Flagstaff
|
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|
Nov 26, 2013 - 10:09am PT
|
Bump
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|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
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|
Nov 26, 2013 - 10:26am PT
|
Is this a non-climbing thread or not?
Cuz I can narrow the focus on my outlook on life and exclude everything else, but I would not be doing so gladly here, were that the demand.
Thanks, CMac, and all, for ALL your thoughts, views, excrement, and angst.
And the climbing, don't forget the climbing.
MFM
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
|
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|
Nov 26, 2013 - 10:34am PT
|
Umberto Eco once described a "polymath" as "a person who likes everything, and nothing else."
Why fix what aint broken?
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10b4me
Ice climber
Bishop/Flagstaff
|
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|
Nov 26, 2013 - 10:43am PT
|
Bump
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10b4me
Sport climber
www.tenbeephotography.com
|
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|
Mar 20, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
|
bump
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|
labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
|
|
Bump!
"It really would be nice if there was even just a little bit of moderating."
M. Hudon
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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No Moderation..... only climbers are tough enuf to endure the BS show that is the new TACO, with little boys crying over trivial things.
It shows who the idiots are.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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little boys crying over trivial things.
Ahahahahah!
At least it makes for entertaining reading.
First World problems . . .
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Bean bag, bean bag, BEAN BAG!!
... regrets ...
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Manu-up and post some trip reports.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
|
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climb this if you will
I dont recall John Long posting anything climbing since his gym accident
BUT his threads are always such a pleasure as to the insight of his wordly views
I would be saddened to see him not be here, clearly he be longs (ba da boom)
This place would be stiff if it was only climbing
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weezy
climber
|
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sometimes you have to climb a pitch or two of choss. deal with it.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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little boys crying over trivial things.
"little boy" is the opposite of "guyman" So is girly-men.
Be a guyman and suck it up.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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"little boy" is the opposite of "guyman" So is girly-men.
Nope, not in the context you use it. You use it as "girly" is a synonym to weak, whining and noicemaking little bastards. That's more common male traits than female. Don't mix us in with that lot.
Tell you what, most "girlies" are way tougher than any man. :-)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Labor Pain Simulator for Two Men as The Wives Sit Nearby
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Ok, that was F'n FUNNY!
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Lollie,
I am so sorry, I was making a play on the Arnolds description of CA's legislature.
You are so right, woman are tough.
You are implying my final statement should have been,
"Suck it up like a Woman" ???
Catchy, huh?
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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clunker.... It s pretty dam hard to be funny with words.
That is the root cause of many internet fights.
just my .02
carry on, please.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Clinker,
this time you made me laugh.
:-D
I do see the complications of that one :-D
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Guyman,
Spank me.
Forums are a beautiful thing for those of us who can't shut up. : )
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Guyman,
Spank me.
That will cost you.... but trust me, it will be worth every penney.
:>)
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 12:19pm PT
|
Sooooo....just thinking about the changes that have occurred around ST lately....
A number of regulars are not posting like they used to, and wondering if there is a connection between any/most of them. Were they banned? Did they get contacted by the mods and asked to tone it down? Did they decide to do this completely on their own?
And what's with all of the threads &/or posts that have disappeared? There's so many of them, it's hard to believe that they all disappeared solely due to the OP's decision. If some/most of those deletions came from the mods, what criteria did they use?
Am I gonna get nuked for calling this out?
Personally, I think there could be a little more forum moderation here at ST (not too much, though), as some of the bullshit that goes on here sometimes really erodes from the overall potential of the place. Diversity is nice and makes it enjoyable, but as long as the core purpose isn't lost or overwhelmed.
Anybody know what has been going on around here lately?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 12:59pm PT
|
Anybody know what has been going on around here lately?
I've been on vacation for a week. Did I miss anything?
John
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 11, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
|
apogee, I was wondering about the same thing over lunch. Civilized or raw nature? Where to draw an idealogical line? Of course I can police myself. In my own opinion that is.
Super Respectable Topo-no game.
More respect, couldn't hurt.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
|
Why would Donald Thompson's stuff get nuked? I don't remember anything similar to Gilchrist's Krap coming from DT.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
|
As far as I am concerned, I am a guest on the Taco Stand. I believe it to be, for the most part, one of the best climbing forums.
I may have my transgressions, but I believe I have never gone overboard.
But what is overboard? What is OTT?
Name calling, slander (and yes I know the definition), some gross pornography.
I believe that most of us are decent people, but of course, under the internet we can be anonymous if we choose. I have never been anonymous, on any forum on any site I have posted to. I post by my name.
I wanted to post to the thread about ISIS, that showed a horrendous photo of the crimes/bloodshed being committed. Yes the one particular image was disturbing, very, very much so.
But, while one poster said that this is a forum that kids go on, I can understand his POV, on the other hand, perhaps we need such shocking images to wake us up.
I have always given to a number of charities, including those for children. Before becoming a full-time carer for Jennie, we gave about one-fifith of our income. Maybe not a lot to some, but a lot to us.
That was a disturbing image on the one thread. I am two half of minds on it being yanked.
Let's admit it, we participate in a 'sport' that some may call elitist, meaning the costs of gear, the time to climb, time a lot of people do not have on their hands. A sport/hobby/past-time whatever that most people on this planet cannot afford in a number of ways.
And yet some bitch about the content on the Taco Stand. Perhaps I am one of them but I have only censored myself. I have never called for any poster to be banned. I have NEVER.
Again, I am a guest on this forum. I try to behave as one. I am not by any means perfect, and in the past, especially my first few months, I allowed myself to be sucked into the morass of some threads. Mea Culpa.
I still think it is a great forum with very good people.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
|
Man, if such a script is the source of this widespread content loss, that really feels like doing surgery with a chainsaw.
Maybe there wasn't much other choice...if you ban someone, it's hard to argue why you could retain their 'contributions'. Still, posters like Coz, (yourself), or even DT had some really good On-Topic contributions to this site.
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SicMic
climber
across the street from Marshall
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
|
It seems like it's just more reason to have multiple forum threads. Non-climbing, political, adult only, general rant. How tough would it be to sort the mess out, or move the thread if necessary?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 02:43pm PT
|
The images posted on the Caliphate thread were appalling. I wish there was some way to un-see them, but there isn't.
I understand that some people wanted to expose the cruelty and sickness that is happening within ISIS, but posting that content as images rather than a link with a severe warning was completely unacceptable.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
|
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|
Aug 11, 2014 - 02:57pm PT
|
Maybe there wasn't much other choice...if you ban someone, it's hard to argue why you could retain their 'contributions'. Still, posters like Coz, (yourself), or even DT had some really good On-Topic contributions to this site.
100% agree with you on this Ap! We lost a ton of killer content thanks to this butchery!!!
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Inventioneer
Boulder climber
Mountain View, CA
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
|
Wow, Chris, somebody ought to hire you to run SuperTopo!! Some of these never-ending brain-draining droning dirges (like the one of Republicans always being wrong and the one about climate change that's changing nobody's mind) should be sent into some cyber trash can somewhere. I mean, do these people actually have productive lives not connected to their "Post" buttons? Now watch the drooling responses to what I just said. Predictable!!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
|
Stahlbro + 10
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 03:27pm PT
|
Some of those that got the whack had too much troll-ery going on, that's fer shur.
But some of those guys actually posted quality, valuable climbing content along with their troll-ery. Bummer to lose that....but maybe there was no other way to separate the wheat from the chaff.
And I still don't understand how or why WML's stuff got the whack.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
|
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|
Aug 11, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
|
A passenger couldn't find her luggage at the airport baggage area, so went
to the lost luggage office and told the person there that her bags
never showed up. The airport worker smiled and said "not to worry because
he was a Trained professional and you are in good hands. "Now," asked
the airport worker, "has your plane arrived yet?"
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
|
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Aug 11, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
|
so... go bump a climbing thread if it bothers you.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 11, 2014 - 04:10pm PT
|
Impeach Cmac, if this is ST government and we don' t like it. Mabey he is more like a King or dictator and must be overthrone. Or he is the Creator and we might want to invent a new religon "Our Way".
It maybe time for a ST confessional and priest to be Cmac's representative to all on the forum. Offenders sin might then be forgiven and good content and conscience preserved.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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Aug 11, 2014 - 04:32pm PT
|
There are non climbing threads?
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Oct 17, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
|
How about a "hide thread" button, Chris?
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Oct 17, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
|
Thank you, Chris
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
|
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Oct 17, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
|
Chris, still love the wild west feel of Supertopo - don't ever change it.
Erik
PS - STFU clinker. "Overthrone"? LOL!
;)
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pec
climber
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
|
Just wondering why multiple forums is a problem?
Have a look at UK climbing
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/
Scroll across the icons at the top to see what the forums are, there's loads of them, many completely unrelated to climbing. Its home to some great debate and discussion.
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gunsmoke
Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
|
How about a "hide thread" button, Chris?
Good question. SuperTopo could show all threads, or climbing related only threads. Each user could choose.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 01:13pm PT
|
If Cmac can't be bothered to write a new post to communicate with us, then I really cannot be bothered to read through 330 posts and then try to decode what he is trying to say.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 02:52pm PT
|
Forum topics would never work. I can't think of very many threads that stay on one topic.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 03:12pm PT
|
HOW ABOUT
a thread-bare doomsday device that automatically archives (never delete anything, because NSA has it anyway) those threads which are marignal or barely worthwhile according to an unspecified worthiness algorithm and/or less than an uncertain number of posts within an uncertain time period.
Certainly works for me. I just happen to have a (patented) algorithm that could be made available.
-.- Werner (not kidding here) Heisenberg
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 03:40pm PT
|
This is exactly right. Just do what you feel is correct. Since you are not fattrad you should be good to go.
As you were!
DMT
LOL!
Next you will be calling me LEB, and those would be fighting words!
Cheers!
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
|
Here's a radical idea.
Why not use more than one forum. One could be ( gasp) climbing.
Maybe add dogs, cats, and Birds. They bring traffic.
The other one could be the "all the other crap" forum. OK, they aren't climbing, but they are irresistible.
There would be no mysteries about what you were going to see.
If Cris M thinks this hampers his guidebook business he can just load up ads on the other crap forum and become a millionaire.
The folks on the climbing forum will figure out where to buy the topos.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:49pm PT
|
so now
are all of you happy
vented your spleens
ranted
made bad puns and
not so Cryptic messages
For G.O.D's Sake men .,.,.,.,.,.said in a stern british accent
Now from the Looks Of it we lost our muse
Mouse
yes I am crying into fart wind.,. CRY wha wha wha
but really it is very foolish what some of you wish for
You wo' not understand 'cause you were, most likely,
not there but a lot of us who passed through knew it,
this site is a little bit like the valley in '72 and by '90 it was OVER.
and it was good times and bad times and life with and without
But it was yours, mine and hers and even the LEOs' Respected,
shoes and a chalk bag some webbing
wide eyes was all that you needed to enter,
like the last errant leaf, spinning to earth, it comes to rest
ignored, indiscernible from the rest undetected.
your welcome back any time MOUSE OF MERCED!!
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TripleS_in_EBs
climber
Poulsbo, WA
|
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:19pm PT
|
How about a "hide thread" button, Chris?
I second that. Would love a "hide thread" button.
I also wish for a "hide threads authored by 'nickname' " feature.
I've visited ST a lot less in the last year or so because of the proliferation of chaff and the time it takes to sort through it to find the content that I originally appreciated from ST.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
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Oct 24, 2014 - 05:39am PT
|
Mister E, I was just throneing out an idea.
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couchmaster
climber
|
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Superbowl in 2 hours, raining outside. 2 interesting things to note.
Rolfr posted on the Bruce Kay is banned WTF thread 1/1/2015 after Bruce had allegedly repatedly attacked another poster who disagreed with him @ 20 times: "I posted the last message I received from Bruce after asking him about being banned. My apologizes to Bruce for posting it with out his permission. I have removed it . But a final quintessential Bruce quote " Forums are a bit like acid. A little is OK, a lot will send you into loonie land." "
CMAC said regarding deleting the Ferguson thread much earlier: "The thread was devolving into personal attacks. While we constantly wrestle with our comfort of having a climbing forum be occasionally overrun with heated political debate, we are very clear that we never want the forum to become a platform for personal attacks."
For myself, I appreciate a spirited debate with the disagreements intellectually parsed by each opposing side. We all learn a lot from them. However, personal attacks are needless, turn most normal folks off and the normal multitudes will go elsewhere.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
|
could we kill off the political threads?
probably not, this place really sucks at the moment. No interest at all to contribute even climbing.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
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|
Oct 10, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
|
Come on Ed, give it another month and it will all be over.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
|
I'm with you Ed.....just back from seven weeks in the Karakorum and I have no interest at all in doing a TR that will instantly slip beneath the waves in a sea where egregious threads like "When Trump Wins" sail on ad nauseum.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
|
OK, I won't post for a month...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
|
I'm with you 100%....it's Oct. 10th. No posts from me until Nov. 10th....at the earliest.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
|
Jim, I'd love to see a TR of your trip.
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zBrown
Ice climber
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
|
Two of my favorites. I'll look forward to your return(s).
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
|
I really enjoy political threads. I enjoy being able to read them and consider the arguments at my leisure. I rarely post to them though, that's more of a commitment than I want to make.
From my perspective, right now, the "Trump" thread is the most interesting one on Supertopo.
Trip reports are great, but John is right, there are only so many way to post "nice report," and so they tend to get read more often than posted to.
And BTW Ed, if you're still reading this: I just bought the in-Reach communications device that you mentioned in your JMT trip report. I'd been looking for something of this nature but hadn't ever heard of that one. I checked it out, and it fit what I needed perfectly :)
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
|
I get you, John. Mostly.
It's all about balance, and the polititard stuff can get stoooopidly out of balance sometimes. (Not sure this is point in time is the best example, though.)
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
|
too bad this is a climber's forum rather than a climbing forum.
but yeah, those few threads really do stain things brown around here. not in a good way.
life in an echo chamber (or is it a ketamine-ride in sensory isolation?) must suck.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 07:48pm PT
|
I don't want to be melodramatic. The seven weeks in the Karakorum were such a joy with absolutely NO election garbage news. I'll take my 30 day break with Ed and see if people want to talk about c.l.i.m.b.i.n.g AFTER the election.....ciao!.
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John M
climber
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
|
Its always weird to come out of the back country. I always wanted to come out, get a meal and a shower. See some friends. Sleep in a comfortable bed. And then go right back out there. Because everyday life was just so different.
Okay.. I'm deleting my posts..
Have a nice break Jim
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
|
yeah, i don't get it either...
this was a few minutes ago so it will have changed already, but here's what i counted on the first page:
trip reports: 6
directly climbing related: 8
other asymmetrically climbing related: 4
total climbing: 18
political: 3
other off topic: 9
total off topic: 12
and i looked on the second page and it was similar... edit: and this was before a bunch of climbing related threads that just got bumped as well...
while it's too bad that donini and Hartouni [two of the posters that i make sure i don't just skim] feel otherwise, i honestly don't get it... sure the political stays high, but that's the nature of the beast. there are only so many times a person can say sweet post to a great tr, whereas the fate of the world hangs in the balance of those politard threads [hahahahaha...]
anyway, hope you guys reconsider, as while there is certainly some noise in the signal, i'd argue that the signal is actually quite strong, relative to some of the supertopo epochs i've seen over the years...
but if you need a break, fair enough... just hope you two come back eventually as your content is appreciated [and i'm confident i can speak for more than myself] by many of us.
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
|
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Oct 10, 2016 - 11:25pm PT
|
Hey Chris,
Thanks for reposting.
You know for me (and I think many) it is not so much the off topic post but abusive content that is a problem. Albeit political post tends to bring out ardent opinions. I try not to get too involved or take stuff personally. And its easy because I am selective what I open. I have yet to open the Trump thread and probably wont.
There is some great content that is not climbing related that I would not have seen else where. We have huge cross section of the population with a wide variety of taste and knowledge at out disposal. That is what makes Supertopo so cool and important.
Thats just my 2 cents
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
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Oct 11, 2016 - 03:52am PT
|
This sounds like a concerted plot/plan to maintain intellectual survival.
See you polite people later.
Thanks for your contributions.
Write when you get to Canada. :0)
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
|
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Oct 11, 2016 - 05:21am PT
|
Time to catch up on some book reading here as well...
The Octopuses Arms
Swimming along,
The sea bass is near,
The tentacles ensnarl,
And strangulate a lonely crab,
"Goodbye crab,
I would have liked to have eaten you too."
-bushman
10/11/2016
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
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Oct 11, 2016 - 06:13am PT
|
Lightweights!
And Ed,, it's going to suck worse without your guys contributions.
Gee thanks!
https://youtu.be/zyltK6pmJGg
[Click to View YouTube Video]
You guys are supposedly two of the designated grown ups here(?) no wonder this place is chaos!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
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|
Oct 11, 2016 - 06:25am PT
|
I'm with you Ed.....just back from seven weeks in the Karakorum and I have no interest at all in doing a TR that will instantly slip beneath the waves in a sea where egregious threads like "When Trump Wins" sail on ad nauseum.
For now, nearly all of the political blather is limited to just one thread. Even though it's a constant, it's just one thread.
I look forward to reading your trip report.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
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|
Oct 11, 2016 - 07:17am PT
|
I enjoy trip reports, but I no longer climb owing to injuries. Consequently, climbing topics are not important to me anymore, and I realize there are more important things in life than climbing.
The problem of non climbing threads could have been remedied if Chris had divided the forum into climbing, and non climbing sections, as many of us had requested.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
|
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|
Oct 11, 2016 - 09:27am PT
|
Thanks for maintaining this playground for us CMac!
I wonder how much crossover there is between the climbing threads and the political threads? Does the politard stuff spill over into the climbing threads, and pollute other people's experience of the forum?
Seems to me like we're each free to read and post to whichever threads most amuse us. IMHO, we're all mature enough to choose those threads and our reactions to them in a way that suits us. Do we need really need to blame CMac if we're unable to do so?
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
|
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|
Oct 11, 2016 - 11:49am PT
|
Although I don't generally read the political threads and almost never respond to them I will argue that they are climbing related. We should have political threads and we should make them have good content so we can be at the table when necessary, advocate on our behalf, and stay informed.
The outcome of national and local elections can have direct bearings on:
1) Public lands -- we could lose important public lands to development
2) Access -- who has the right to recreate and who doesn't? Are motorized (drills) allowed?
3) Our basic economic viability to be able to recreate, have jobs that provide for gear and transportation, etc.
I can't help but think if climbers as a group were totally apathetic that would be not be a better alternative? Isn't that how we got Bush? We need to be involved and informed.
That said, having the same five people yell back and forth and call each other stupid is not productive and not informative. But those of you who have provided informative links and actual information, I'm grateful to you.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
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Oct 11, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
|
I just checked and exactly half the threads on page one were climbing related. That's not bad for a climbers' site where many posters are over sixty. And, yes, the political threads become dominated by a few combatants and that is not healthy, but I agree with Mike that it is useful to have reasonable political discussions on ST.
As for boycotting ST on this issue, that's an individual decision. I remember sailing through my 60s and up to my mid 70s still climbing some and having considerable interest in what was happening with the young whippersnappers taking standards to incredible heights. But when I became sidelined permanently my interest in climbing drifted off and I was glad ST had a variety of topics. However, some here who reach that point will continue to be intrigued by climbing feats. We're individuals, after all.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
|
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Oct 11, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
|
1 month posting moratorium by Hartouni and Donini...there goes 1/2 of the collective IQ & at least 1/3 of the collective cojones...
Politards Untie
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
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Oct 11, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
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Pretty unusual year for politics...
... the real discussions are also tilted in a different manner...
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Oct 11, 2016 - 07:00pm PT
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Anyone can click to the Prior 30 topics >> next page and look for the - [TR] next to the post?
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jstan
climber
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Oct 11, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
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Me?
I am here for Facelift.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Oct 12, 2016 - 05:58am PT
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Non Climbing Report (OT)
38° today at Caples Lake with a high of 65° and expect high winds, otherwise clear but with afternoon clouds. Random weather postings here into the first of 2017.
The DOW is down 200.38 and the NASDAQ is down by 81.86.
Dog's feet continue to maintain their Fritos scent and climbing dreams recur nightly.
Book reports, poetry, angry squirrels, barking dogs, grazing rabbits, and the occasional fox or coyote sighting found here at random intervals.
Services will be held for 3 barn owls and 2 raccoons along the South Folsom Canal today at 5pm. Birdseed donations to the wild accepted.
Life continues on stranger than fiction and that's just in my neighborhood, more at eleven.
-bushman
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
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Oct 12, 2016 - 11:30am PT
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I feel bad for the climbing dudes that visit ST to asked about backing a jumar or how to bail on 3rd pitch......
ST is all about politics
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 12, 2016 - 11:42am PT
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hey there say, ed, and jim... i look forward to your post, and trip reports, soon as you start...
:)
have not read or bumped up stuff for awhile...
been helping an older friend, so i jump-in-and-out...
missed a lot of good stories, too...
hang in here, hope to see and even help bump
up your neat adventures and those of everyone else...
there is always seasonal change, here, we all know that...
and--when the seasons are good, man oh man, they are:
great!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 12, 2016 - 11:50am PT
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Majid, you're breaking my heart.
It is a CHARACTER BUILDING exercise, getting advice of almost any kind on the forum.
Waiting for the advice asked for, which comes sooner or later, shows their DOGGEDNESS and DETERMINATION.
I'm not saying that it takes a hell of a lot of determination to bail from anything, mind you.
Straight answers take some time around here, as you know.
Not everyone is geared for or ready for the ST EXPERIENCE.
At the present time, the Supertopo climbing topic to non-climbing topic ratio (STCTNCTR) is exactly .33
and is expected to remain so for the rest of the afternoon.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 12, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
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The question is, should this be a discussion forum for climbers (who are human beings with interests united by climbing but ranging far beyond), or should this be just a source of climbing information?
If it was the latter, I wouldn't check here multiple times per day. I would only come here when planning a specific climb for which I wanted beta. Which is quite rare with my current life priorities.
I don't have time to invest in multiple Internet forum addictions, and this site gives me the right mix of climbing info, news commentary, comedy, drama, and human connection. If it became just about climbing, I might have to get addicted instead to Facebook or Reddit or something like that.
Honestly speaking, Supertopo has become outdated as a repository of route info given Mountain Project... but when it comes to human intelligence and insight, first hand accounts, this place is gold because of all the real players who visit the campfire. I think a dynamic that makes that happen is that these are all real people who value the mix of stuff to be found on Supertopo discussions. Making it a sterile climbing-only moderated place would drive away the participants. Be careful of throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Nov 10, 2016 - 04:41am PT
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Can we get off the Trump Train? Positive or negative, its clogging up the front page.
Get over it!!!!!!
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Nov 10, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
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Is that you Mike?
Moderators: time for a clean up?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 10, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
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there ya go needa' cleaned it up for ya!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 11, 2016 - 07:44am PT
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 10, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
could we kill off the political threads?
probably not, this place really sucks at the moment. No interest at all to contribute even climbing.
A while back, Chris shut down all the political threads. Then he allowed a single thread to rise from the ashes.
It's time for another mass closure.
Shut 'em all down.
Limit the political blather to a single thread.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 11, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
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In my opinion, the political threads on supertopo are awesome. Climbers are a rare and very respectable breed. I enjoy the candor and even slander on this site, because climbers are an honest breed. We deal with life and death. Life on the edge. Climbers dont hold back or they do for a good reason. I think that this is the most honest and revealing forum on politics Ive read. I like hearing what badass mothertruckers have to say, even if they disagree with me. These are people whove earned my respect on the wall. I want to hear what they have to say!
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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Nov 11, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
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i went climbing today. some climbers talked about politics at the crag. i couldn't stop em (dogs, babies, PADs and gym cards too). and this one old white guy wanted to rebolt something. i was like DUDE!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 11, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
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I went climbing yesterday, got in a few good pitches in a place with nobody else around except my partner and me. Also had some conversations about politics and societal organization. Life mirroring Supertopo mirroring life.
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David D.
Trad climber
California
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Nov 11, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
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I've come to believe that a healthy adult needs to have a few hobbies outside of work that force them to interact with a diverse array of people they might not otherwise encounter. I've climbed with people with whom I agree 100% on politics, and I've climbed with people who couldn't be more opposite than me. It's provided the fodder for many long drives from the coast to Yosemite. I remember one particular conversation that started the minute we got in the car at Camp 4, and only ended when I dropped him off at his house in Monterey. But you know what? We had an absolute blast climbing, and it was the shared experience of climbing that let us argue about politics, and then drop it because damn... Yosemite is such a magical place to get to be.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 11, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
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The only times I have questioned the wild west character of ST is when I see product advertisement "threads" taking up most of the first page.
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