Stance Drilling

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deuce4

Big Wall climber

the Southwest

Dec 6, 2007 - 04:18pm PT

Hi Tarbaby-

Actually, I remember that drill, if I recall correctly, and it was a drill made by "Dakota Bolt Works" , which is no longer in business. The Dakota drill used the set screws, and the only way you could really make it work properly in my experience is to use lock-tite to glue in the set screws every time you changed a bit. Set screws really are not designed for impact/vibration applications.

The Hurricane drill, which I designed (when I was living in Hurricane, Utah, around 1993 or so), used a completely different principle, that is, a tightening interchangable collet system, which had two advantages: 1, you could change out the collets to allow any size shank to be used, in increments of 1/64" as well as metric, so it made hardware store bits in any country a viable bit for the system (it also worked with SDS bits, of course, but had the added advantage that the SDS bit shank could be cut down (as it didn't require all the SDS flutes and stuff), so the overall drill system was nice and short. Mainly, the tightening system is bombproof, once a bit was set, there was no chance for any loosening.

Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it...

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Dec 6, 2007 - 05:00pm PT

Sounds like a story worth sticking to Deuce.

Yes Dakota; that sounds right, purchased at Rim Cyclery in '87.
I recently snapped off a bit in the handle, trying to remove it.
(must have rusted/molecular bonded into the handle.

Ever use the cobalt bits?

mooch

Big Wall climber

The Immaculate Conception

Dec 6, 2007 - 05:15pm PT

Nate D making it count on the FA of 'Three Amigos'.

"Arms tired yet, Nate?" ;)

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Dec 6, 2007 - 05:24pm PT

BHilden wrote:
"I think drilling styles is pertinent to this discussion"

I use an alternating combination of light taps and heavy hitting to engage the muscles differentialy, all while keeping the bit twisting a slight bit as the blows are delivered.

What works best for me is a very agressive, heavy hit with a good, weighty hammer head (old Chouinard wall hammer) combined with a light twisting motion at the moment of impact and an attitude of visualizing that damn drill punching a hole very quickly, backed up with resolve and force to get the job done. I primarily use light taps as my alternating "rest phase".

deuce4

Big Wall climber

the Southwest

Dec 6, 2007 - 05:29pm PT

TarDaddy-

Yep, cobalt bits were the only bits I used for 1/4", mostly becuase I could buy specific sizes, e.g. 17/64" for softer granite, and 9/32" for some rivets, etc.

Though I still have a good collection of old Rawls, Leepers, and even some early 5.10 bits, it turned out it was just easier (and cheaper) going to the hardware store, though I did find that you had to buy a variety of brands, then toss a few cheapos away (in other words, quality varied).

The advantage of the cobalt bits were the "margin" which worked best with custom sharpening. I have some images of what I mean by "margin" on my bigwalls.net website somewhere.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

sorry, just posting out loud.

Dec 6, 2007 - 07:48pm PT

Ubergoober on early efforts of Operation Pinnacles Freedom at Pinns Nat. Mon.

Minerals

Social climber

The Deli

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2007 - 12:06am PT

Hey, Clint! No, I haven’t tried those SDS bit types that you have pictured above. The first one, with the centering point looks like it might be a little sharper than the standard Powers SDS bit. But as sharp as a HSS bit? I dunno. The three- and four-point tips look like they would drill about as well as those old-school three-point HSS quarters… But who knows, if I used a power drill, I might think that they rule!

Yes, different drilling situations may require different drilling equipment – we use whatever is most practical for each given situation, and whatever suits our personal preferences best.

Drilling styles are most definitely pertinent to all hand drilling discussions. Good call, Bruce. Greg and I have quite different drilling styles, yet we achieve the same goal with roughly the same amount of time and effort... except for those quarters… ;) Once the hole gets started, some prefer a rhythm of a few to several hits with a slight pause to readjust their grip on the drill between hits. I prefer a constant rhythm while adjusting my grip between each hit, not during rotation. It seems to me that the more rotation between each hit (without rotating too much), the more efficient the drill time. And hell, if the bit will take it, talk to it like you mean it!

Another advantage of placing quarter-inchers on the FA of free routes is that you can move the bolt position at replacement time if necessary. Top-roping rehearsal and rap-bolting allow for PPP (Proper Prior Planning) of bolt placements to exact locations. Ground-up stance drilling may not allow for such well-planned bolt locations. So why not “fix” your route after your original “experience” to create the desired end product? Al Dude, sir-bad-ass, earlier this season you said that retro-bolting one’s own route seems like a strange idea… but if the end product will be enjoyed by many climbers and the original (Jimi Hendrix) “experience” has been achieved, why not retro? …Even if it means adding bolts to original run-outs! Or must we prove ourselves to all who may follow our routes?

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, Ca

Dec 7, 2007 - 02:09am PT

I retro'd one of my routes: Seamstress, at Courtright. Regretted it ever since. The FA was one of the boldest stunts I have ever done. I got talked into degrading it by folks who couldn't climb it after I added bolts. Shoulda' left it the way it was... (knot that anyone knows where it is or gives a hoot anyway.)

Think twice before you alter your own route. A perfect example is the bolt added to the top of Monaco in Indian Cove. Brought that route down a lot.

Brutus of Wyde

climber

Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA

Dec 7, 2007 - 04:45pm PT

Added a bolt to the start of Hairline. Originally the first bolt was 20 feet or so off of the top of the snowbank.

Next year we go back, and that d@mned thing is 65 feet off the deck!

Alex punched in a bolt lower (I didn't want to, but it was his lead!)

Then what does he do? He turns the lead over to me.

I pulled the lead rope and climbed right past that first bolt, way up to the "keep the riff-raff-off" bolt of our first attempt. Needless to say, I insisted we pull the lower bolt, but, unfortunately we didn't have the tools to do it.

Fast forward 18 years to when Nurse Ratchet, Elmar, Lisa and I are replacing the quarter inch bolts.

I figure if I can still climb past that first bolt, we'll pull it. This time we have the pry pars, tuning forks, and patching gunk to do it right.

I clipped it, and was thankful.

We replaced it with a 3/8".

Brutus

mooch

Big Wall climber

The Immaculate Conception

Dec 7, 2007 - 07:21pm PT

Yo Kris....

knot that anyone knows where it is or gives a hoot anyway

Horton knows....and he's a Who! ;)

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

sorry, just posting out loud.

Dec 7, 2007 - 07:45pm PT

i've retro'd one of my own routes, but only because it is on an otherwise basic crag, and I have enough runout routes otherwise I suppose... i guess I'm not always trying prove something. Do I really need to prove anything? Probably not. Just a game at the time.

scooter

climber

Moss Landing CA

Dec 8, 2007 - 12:35am PT

Bob Jensen and Sean Kriletich did a buch of bolting on lead on their Fairview traverse. I have only seen the route from other routes on the dome.

Watusi

Social climber

Newport, OR

Dec 8, 2007 - 12:42am PT

Yeah Kris, I had lead Monaco the way it was and you could take a little whip at the top but now...Tame.

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Dec 8, 2007 - 10:49am PT

Hey Tusi,
I wonder how our single 1/4"er is holding up on Wall of Voodoo down in the Trono.

By the way, that N Face route we 'been eyeballin': Accomazzo did an aid ascent back in the day...

LongAgo

Trad climber

Dec 10, 2007 - 04:35pm PT

Tidbits:

craziest one: yes, as noted above, with Pat Ament on Soarks where he drilled using a rock as a hammer since, umm, we left the real one at home.

technique stuff: not sure there was any full proof technique against (1) broken drills, (2) slow go (3) falling off in the middle. Did find I could drill with a broken drill, blowing dust from the hole seem to prevent binding and sometimes you just fall especially when adjusting a stance or hammering too hard overhead on steep stuff. Never used hooks or weighted the drill but did have a sling connecting drill to me so not to drop it (but still managed a drop once on Fairest of All with night approaching)

hard stances: think I've repressed them, but some on Chiquito Dome, one or two on Shake and Bake, some in Tuolumne. Here's steep old Shake and Bake, Pinnacles National Monument. Chris Vandiver and Tom Fukuya are pictured on an early attempt. After their scouting, I led and placed bolts above and that's where a couple were tippy to place.

Tom Higgins
LongAgo