Aging, Arthritis, and Joint Pain

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elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
I am 68 and have tried most of the stuff mentioned, including Turmeric on Werners advice... none of it has worked for me. I just this morning had a long talk with my specialist and we looked at the Xrays together. My right shoulder joint has no cartledge left in it and thus it is bone on bone. I played a vicious game of racquetball for many years and of course climbing and other physical activities. I just wore out that joint and am in some pain most of the time and have very limited range of motion. Fortunately my left shoulder is fine, and my hips, legs and lower joints are fine even though I am as fat as a town dog.
I am living with it ... most likely will have to have a replacement somewhere along the line. One can try all the homeopathic stuff, chemicals, needles, etc you want but they only work for those with something left to work with... so.... beware people... throughout most of human existance people didn't live much past 40, so we didn't evolve to have good joints at 70 and, unless you do things in moderation, you can't expect to be as agile as you were back in your younger days. Take a look at Bridwells hands sometime! Arthritis can be genetic a lot of the time and thus maybe you will escape its ravages. However if you abuse your joints with constant stress then you can expect some bad outcomes later on. Getting old isn't for the weak!! Good luck folks!
SpokaneBob

Ice climber
Spokane, Washington
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Hi John,

I read your reply with interest. Knowing you have a disciplined mind I wonder if you might share any insights you have gained over time with taking this supplement for arthritis. For instance is hyaluronic acid best taken ingested in tablet form? Is it best to take it on an empty stomach or with food? Is there a perferred dose per Kg of body mass to obtain benefits (some supplements, drugs, etc., must be used above a certain threshold for one to receive its beneficial effects)? Does time of day matter, i.e., for example is it best taken prior to going to bed? Sometimes such variables do not matter, but sometimes they do. I would appreciate any wisdom you might care to share.

Cheers,

Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Bruce! Great point about the lack of correlation between arthritis (as verified by radiographs) and pain. I often tell my patients about that, as a way to provide encouragement and hope that despite your x-rays showing degeneration, the pain is not "guaranteed for life".

But what you said about musculoskeletal pain in general is probably an over-estimation of the psychosocial aspects of pain. There is indeed much to be learned when looking at pain from a purely psychological perspective. But normal physiology does in fact 'permit' pain, it is definitely real, and it has very well-known neurological origins. Specifically the spinothalamic tract in the CNS, and in the nociceptive ("Type IV") nerve fibers which transmit pain (and incidentally, temperature sensation). But what you stated does touch upon some very important aspect of working in a clinical setting: proper orthopedic testing. This can include testing to determine if a person is a malingerer (faking) or if there is a psycho-somatic component of the pain that the person is experiencing. An example of this is "McBride's test".

Chiropractic is not a placebo treatment just like acupuncture is not a placebo treatment just like Celebrex is not a placebo treatment.

Pain is REALLY REAL!

And I agree that anyone with pain ought to get an accurate diagnosis. Which could be equally well provided by any number of professionals: medical doctors versed in musculoskeletal conditions, orthopedic doctors, doctors of chiropractic, doctors of osteopathy, etc. The definition of "traditional" has changed to include all of the above, one reason being that we all work from the same book of diagnostic codes: the International Classification of Diseases (ICD).

PS: Love your Castle Rock guide ;)
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
Utilizing the power of a placebo cure, like a joint supplement or chiro session, can also work too.

I had an interesting experience with chiropractic in about 1995. It was certainly not placebo. I had been in a bad car crash which I was lucky to walk away from. Over the following weeks though it became apparent to me that I was not uninjured. I felt "crooked," developed back and neck pain and had trouble sleeping.

Finally I started seeing a local chiropractor, and after each visit I would feel better for a while but it would not last. Sensing my frustration, this chiro decided she was not doing me any good and she was kind enough to refer me to her "mentor," as she described him.

This guy was different. On my first visit he did almost nothing. He had me walk around in my shorts while he observed, and then he did some subtle massage and said to come back the next day. On this second (and last) visit he laid me out face up on the table, and walked around me gently laying his hands on me here and there. He was slow and gentle, and I became very relaxed. Then without any warning he performed a sudden almost violent adjustment to my entire upper body. It felt like he popped my entire rib cage like a bug. It was like he was a martial artist or something. Immediately after I got over the shock of it I began feeling better. Within a couple of days I was back to normal. This was a profound experience.

More recently I've seen a Chiro locally here in Monrovia who studied massage with Shiatsu in Japan. He has been very helpful, with his hands and body reading skills, to loosen up my left hip which was heading for trouble a couple years ago but now that I know how to maintain it is fine now.





bjj

climber
beyond the sun
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
"
There is absolutely no correlation between arthritic aging changes and pain. Arthritis limits mobility, but does not "cause" pain (although the structural anomaly may 'trigger' it). Arthritis is one issue, pain is quite another. I read above where a 42 year old did a bunch of lifting and biking and then suddenly in two weeks, he was racked with crippling hip pain. Arthritis doesn't work like that. "

Um, wat?

I had it diagnosed. It is osteo arthritis. No if's, ands or buts about it. It runs in my family. The symptoms are absolutely textbook. The doctors (more than one) confirmed that is absolutely what it is.

I believe you either misread, or made some assumptions about the sequence of events. It didn't go from completely fine to "crippling" overnight. It started as mild discomfort and over the course of some months, got worse. I wouldn't call it "crippling", but it was definitely getting bad.

No offense, but I will take my evidence, which includes diagnosis by trained medical professionals over some random on the internet telling me it is due to my "unconscious emotional life" (whatever that means).

bjj

climber
beyond the sun
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
"bjj- I had my first hip replaced at age 45, almost 8 years ago and it's doing great."

Can you tell me how bad it was before going under the knife? Mine is doing well now due to a combination of lots of PT exercises, losing some weight, moderate used of ibuprofen and avoiding movements and positions that aggravate it.

If I wasn't so into climbing and other sports, I probably would barely notice it on a day to day basis.

I would love to have it completely "fixed" such that I can do wide stems and big left foot high steps / rock overs again, but I'd rather avoid surgery as long as possible.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
Before doing hip replacement surgery, it's a very good idea to have both hips X-rayed to see if the "normal" hip and the "injured" hip have the same amount of aging changes. If they do, what's wrong exactly with the hip that's being replaced? Test, don't guess.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Stem cells.

Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
both hips X-rayed

I've had several very successful joint surgeries, and my understanding is that contrast MRI and or CT is the only way to get a clear image of soft tissue in / around a joint and even then there can be surprises during an invasive procedure.

I should point out that my surgeries (so far) have been to repair traumatic injuries, not degenerative problems which are a different situation altogether.

Anyway good luck and good fortune to everyone. Getting old in any kind of style is not for the faint of heart.
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Jan 24, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
At 45 , my right hip was shot.. top of the joint was almost concave.. I asked what my alternate was and the Doc said "in 6 months , you will bein wheelchair"

I was dragging it as the dead leg. A recent xray showed no decline or wear after 8 years... No more Devil's tower 5.12 but other than that, not really any huge issues. You do know it's there though and I guess thats good- I hear disloctions are pretty bad.
With the hip a couple weeks ago, the Doc stretched things out a bit (quad, psoas, etc) while inserting the implant. it hurt like hell for a week, but now it's OK. I guess this is a way to keep the dislocation risks down (and get the atrophyed muscles going)

I'm on the thera bands now and start swimming saturday
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 24, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
There is absolutely no correlation between arthritic aging changes and pain. Arthritis limits mobility, but does not "cause" pain (although the structural anomaly may 'trigger' it). Arthritis is one issue, pain is quite another

This is absolute baloney. Tissue becomes inflamed around the arthritic joint and to the afflicted one becomes indistinguishable from the other. It is true some people have osteoarthritis limiting motion or strength without accompanying pain (my mother did after an accident, at an old age), but one should not generalize.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
'Inflammation" = Not proven (Scots Verdict)
WBraun

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
The gross material body is the source of all misery .......
xkyczar

Trad climber
denver
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
Interesting review of several osteoarthritis studies conducted on climbers.

http://scienceblogs.com/webeasties/2013/01/22/rock-climbing-fat-fingers-and-arthritis/

Seems to conclude that there is no conclusion.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
Do-it-yourself self-estem pills. Feel better about pain, and for cheap.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
after several attempts at alleviating the effects of arthritic knees, I think I will try acupuncture.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
In What Time Zone Am I?
Dec 19, 2014 - 11:29am PT
Sorry Moose. Interesting. Maybe the wet weather? My shoulder and bad toe have been acting up. We are headed up skiing either Sat or Sun for a few days. Hoping things won't hurt too much. I'm so sorry about how much you are afflicted. That sounds gruesome.

Susan
WBraun

climber
Dec 19, 2014 - 11:30am PT
Turmeric and ....

http://www.silversolutionusa.com/shop-now-1/
WBraun

climber
Dec 19, 2014 - 11:46am PT
Yes FDA will tell you The colloidal silver is not safe.

You will die.

I been taking it for 20 years.

You can cash me in for all the silver stored inside me ......
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Dec 19, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
78 in a couple of months. I'm still on the vit-I regimen I described earlier, but I gave up the H acid tablets some time ago since I could not tell the difference if I took them. Yesterday I worked out on my horizontal ladder in the back yard - levers and traverses - and the day before I did laps on the large talus boulders constituting the rip rap at the nearby Lake Pueblo dam. Great for dynamic balance and varied use of the legs and thighs. Not much change in the arthritic shoulders, but no noticeable deterioration either. Still pretty damn strong for my age.

I highly recommend bodyweight exercises for aging men. I've been at them for 60 years and have found no substitute for maintaining/gaining strength, including yoga, pilates, etc. Men, stay strong as you journey into old age . . . it may not keep you alive any longer but you will not go willing into that good night.
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