Aging, Arthritis, and Joint Pain

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Messages 41 - 60 of total 92 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 22, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
This is a sort of progress report, since I posted back in 2007. At nearly 76 I am enjoying moderate bodyweight exercises, although I gave up climbing several years ago due to severe shoulder arthritis and reduced confidence in soloing. There is a short video of me exercising with a link on the first page of my website.

I have taken glucosamine (2000 units/day) for about eight years, and so far my legs and other joints are fine - the shoulders flamed out some time ago. I take 600 mg of ibuprofen in the morning and one or two tablets (200mg) more during a 24 hour period. Without the "vitamin I" I would be in some pain whenever I used my shoulders. I admire those who disdain this NSAID and are able to function well without it, but for me it is wonderful. I have had no side-effects so far, and I have been taking it for almost a decade.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Jan 22, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
ive got pretty bad arthritis(left leg< walk with a limp) im 53, it hurts unless i take Tumeric.or Vicoden.
i just climbed the Widows Tears last week and didnt feel too bad the next day.
its Tumeric for me.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jan 22, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
I'm still on 1/3 dose of turmeric. . . IT WORKS!

Been on it for years and years.

YAY!

(I used to be Blinny)
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Jan 22, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
All this mention of Turmeric. Don't forget Omega 3 :

http://www.arthritistoday.org/nutrition-and-weight-loss/healthy-eating/food-and-inflammation/fatty-acids-benefits.php

http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/food-nutrition/facts/benefits-of-omega-34.htm

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/08/two-arthritis-powerhouses-even-stronger-together.aspx

Help your arthritis by consuming fish and fish oil supplements.

Look for the IFOS label on the supplement.
http://www.ifosprogram.com/industry-home
DickMcfartin

Ice climber
soewhere over the rainbow....
Jan 22, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
Tart Cherry Juice.

Tumaric,

Fresh ginger.

Pineapple.



Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 22, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
A couple of notes on things the bedevil many of us, from my 30+ years of practice:

There are different types of arthritis. Responses to treatments and outcomes will vary dramatically as to the cause. Last time I looked there were 45 different types.

Setting aside the more esoteric types, there are generally two issues to consider: structural deformities, and inflammation.

My observation is that structural deformities (a bone broke, cartilege was torn, a tendon ripped) is somewhat like a flat tire.....it doesn't matter what kind of air you put in, whether it has Turmeric or Glucosamine.....it doesn't change the abnormality. The main treatment (short of repair) is pain control.

Inflammation is very different. There also may be considerable inflammation associated with a deformity. Generally, you want to attack the inflammation, although you may ALSO attack the pain.

In western medicine, the big deal is treating with NSAIDS...such as advil.

One thing that is poorly understood is that for many of these 40-odd drugs, they treat BOTH pain and inflammation. However, the dosage may be different! For the example of Advil, the pain dosage is the OTC dose, two tabs twice a day. Pushing the dose does not really increase the pain effect, much. HOWEVER, the anti-inflammatory dose does not really kick in until you get to the prescription dosage, which would be 16 tablets a day.

There is also considerable differences in potency of these drugs. Diclofenac (Voltaren, Cataflam) is generally considered about the strongest, and the top dose is 75mg twice daily. It is generic, and cheap(3 months/$10)

I don't have a problem with the herbal remedies, but a word of caution: Many have not been vetted for safety, particularly over a long time. I think they are generally safe, but Caveat Emptor.

For those who have arthritis in their hands, and some other joints, an old fashioned remedy that works well for some, is a Paraffin Bath. I use one daily, and it really helps. It also treates dry skin!
You can pick them up for about $25, and no adverse reactions.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:13am PT
A regular regimen of bicycling and beer seems to have kept my joints in good working order for 65 years.

I did my best to detach my left leg twelve years ago, and when they bolted it back on they told me I'd soon have arthritis in my hip, but so far that hasn't happened.

Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:13am PT
I don't have a problem with the herbal remedies, but a word of caution: Many have not been vetted for safety, particularly over a long time. I think they are generally safe, but Caveat Emptor.

True. I myself don't suffer from arthritis , but I understand the immediacy of pain, as well as its sometimes chronic nature, which, in effect may produce structural changes in the brain.
I am making the case for a daily lifestyle approach to health.

It has been demonstrated that orthomolecular food substances like turmeric and fish oil , as well as antioxidants in general, reduces systemic inflammation . Food choices can keep the level of inflammatory markers down on a daily basis.
Mainstream medicine has often been giving the wrong advice to people on what constitutes a state of health .
My mom , a diabetic, was told as long as she took the drugs she was prescribed she could eat things like cake and cookies. I wondered about this until I spotted her physician- who was perhaps 40 lbs. overweight with a BMI of well over 35.
The primary solution the medical establishment has for the commonplace ills of mankind are prescription and OTC drugs. Period.
People should realize that physicians, and medicine, as presently constituted, is really good for things like catastrophic emergencies and immediate solutions to acute situations- but are largely relatively clueless as to what might constitute the practice of daily health.

People were once told by the high priests of medicine that carbs were good and too much protein was bad, now they are told the reverse . Fat was demonized , now people are told that there are different fats , some good, some bad..
Now ordinary people , confused,have thrown up their collective hands and started eating whatever they damn well please - with catastrophic results.
Mainstream medicine has only one solution to the problems they have helped to cause: more prescription drugs.


Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:47am PT
The primary solution the medical establishment has for the commonplace ills of mankind are prescription and OTC drugs. Period.

Donald, while I understand why you say that, and don't totally disagree, you should have some perspective, that perhaps you don't:

Virtually all physicians spend a significant amount of time imparting information on lifestyle modification. Diabetes is a perfect example of a disease process that is prone to such modification. You can imagine the frustration of imparting such advice, and seeing it ignored. After you see 10 in a row.....100 in a row....1000 in a row. At a certain point in time, I think many physicians just give up, and move onto the things that they know will actually produce a superior outcome.

It's easy to give advice, when there is no consequence of being wrong. The example of Jim Fixx comes to mind. Could not have led a healthier lifestyle. And yet, there is virtually no doubt that medications could have saved his life.
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:28am PT
Virtually all physicians spend a significant amount of time imparting information on lifestyle modification. Diabetes is a perfect example of a disease process that is prone to such modification. You can imagine the frustration of imparting such advice, and seeing it ignored. After you see 10 in a row.....100 in a row....1000 in a row. At a certain point in time, I think many physicians just give up, and move onto the things that they know will actually produce a superior outcome.

I understand. I am not blaming individual physicians out there. Human nature being what it is.
I am attempting to illuminate aspects of the medical establishment that itself is in a constant state of bewilderment. It is often a revelation to most docs that high glycemic carbs , when consumed without restraint , often leads to epidemic levels of Diabetes 2. Moreover,you have my mom's example, which I suspect is the rule and not the exception. She was not told the origins of her condition. Therefore , she has not learned to associate her diabetes with poor choices in her diet. When I attempted to inform her of that very real possibility, she would not listen, because I am not a doctor.
Her non-exercising, obese physician's solution to her predicament is more pharmaceuticals and advice to enjoy cookies and cake, as long as the metformin is there.

Keep up the good work Doc. I know you want the best for your patients. I am falling asleep at this moment.
Today I ran 2 miles and sprinted 5 x 50 yard dashes.
If your body can handle it I heartily recommend ( no pun intended) sprinting 30 - 50 yds intervalled with 1/4 mile slow jogs.


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:39am PT
jogill: I have taken glucosamine (2000 units/day) for about eight years, and so far my legs and other joints are fine - the shoulders flamed out some time ago. I take 600 mg of ibuprofen in the morning and one or two tablets (200mg) more during a 24 hour period. Without the "vitamin I" I would be in some pain whenever I used my shoulders. I admire those who disdain this NSAID and are able to function well without it, but for me it is wonderful. I have had no side-effects so far, and I have been taking it for almost a decade.

This is precisely what I did for years and years for my bad shoulder - 800mg of 'I' daily - until I started taking the Turmeric. But after three months with the turmeric I have less pain than I ever with the advil.

P.S. KenM, yes, I realize Turmeric does nothing for the condition of my shoulder, but rather just manages the pain and inflammation.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:54am PT
DT: ...the medical establishment

Ken, it's not you, Donald just has a problem with 'establishments' not on the Rovian-approved list of high lobby dollar institutions.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:11am PT
Aside from the side effect of causing you to change your name frequently, turmeric is good. Follow e..'s suggestion and google it.

Resveratrol is good.

Vitamin D is good.

Gluc/Chond worked well on my sore shoulder once. Doesn't seem to be nearly as effective these days. No studies of consequences of long-term use.

BTW - I have no arthritis, knee pain is due to torn meniscus.

Oh yeah, NAC (n-acetyl cysteine, precursor to glutathione) is good.


Capsaicin for immediate relief.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:14am PT
http://www.puritan.com/turmeric-510/turmeric-400-mg-000525

hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:18am PT
Donald Thompson is on track here.
After experimenting with the popular supplements for about 12 years, I came across something I rarely see in relation to arthritis type joint pain. Ph balance. Most Americans have an extremely acidic diet, coffee and alcohol are the #1 culprits, but our standard diet contributes.
I started brewing my own Kombucha a few years ago. While it is an acidic substance, it helps alkalize our system. This constant Ph toward the acidic is damaging to joints, and possibly muscle tissue, connections in the brain, etc. It seems that if you can get your Ph balance more in balance, toward the alkaline, it is soothing and healing to these stressed tissues.

Last summer my knees were absolutely killing me. I finally went in to see an ortho when the pain was making me nauseous. About that time I lost my job. I got 3 injections of hyralonic acid in my left knee over 2 weeks, the right one just needed a little rest.

1 week after the final injection, I left on the JMT. No, or little coffee, just green tea, and a fairly Ph balanced diet for 30 days.

My knees were pain free, and other than aches and soreness related to the pack, no muscle pain that lasted for days, no "fuzzy brain", in short, I felt 10 years younger.

More to this story;
When I went in to see the Dr., I got some blood work done and came back as Hypothryoid. They put me on Synthroyd, which helped pull me out of it, but was hell to take. I did not take any on the JMT trip, it messed with my heart rate at altitude too much and left me weak.
Anywho, after doing MORE research, I came across that Hypothyroidism is linked to acidic Ph. AND, that raw cruciform vegetables, chlorine and fluoride block thyroid hormone up take. As well as being acidic substances. Cook those veggies al dente and they transform.
I had been heavy on raw veggies, especially broccoli and cauliflower, drinking whatever water and using toothpaste with fluoride. You get the picture.
198 miles in 30 days cleared me out. The thyroid issue has resolved.


It's the Ph man, check it out.


(I use a ton of turmeric in my cooking, seems to help.)
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:16am PT
Jim Fixx was a heavy smoker and had an extremely poor diet and lifestyle up till age 35. That's why his story was so compelling. Even after he started running, he felt diet was not that important. Drugs may or may not have helped, but educating people earlier in life about far better solutions will have the most impact. MD's just don't have the time for this. and look to other solutions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-robbins/what-should-we-learn-from_b_815943.html
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:21am PT
I tried Glucosemine until I discovered I had a shellfish reaction- not good. Ginger seems to help though.
I just had hip #2 replaced and not being able to take Vitamin I is a pain ... no nsaid's on blood thinners.. only for one more week though.

I think it interesting the link between stress and arthritis flares.. this certainly exists for me....

john
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:27am PT
It is often a revelation to most docs that high glycemic carbs , when consumed without restraint , often leads to epidemic levels of Diabetes 2.

All I can say is that you have talked to a very small number of doctors, to make a statement about "most docs".

In reality, what most docs say when asked about giving such advice: a waste of time, because they'll follow it for a week, then stop. All objective measures worsen with time. That's experience from people who are actually responsible for what happens.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:29am PT
P.S. KenM, yes, I realize Turmeric does nothing for the condition of my shoulder, but rather just manages the pain and inflammation.

There is nothing wrong with that in my book!

I'd take Turmeric in a second, if I didn't have repetitive kidney stones (one of which I'm dealing with at the moment)
steve shea

climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:52am PT
For me with blown achilles, 1 ACL, 2MCLs, several tib/fib breaks, one severe I have an IM rod multiple plates and screws, and a neck fusion, I am in surprisingly good shape pain wise. I have been injured off and on since 1980 and am used to pain and rehab and all attendant problems. I think Steve A. is correct, use it or lose it. I think I have had some pain so long I've raised my pain threshold without thinking about it. I wanted to do mountain sports and figured out a way to cope. I'm lucky and still have good knee cartilage, genetics? The one residual effect from prior activity, I used to run a lot, is a bad case of IT band inflamation which will not go away. What to do? I work out 3 times week with a Mt. Athlete type program. Lots of core and movement. Drink lots of water and stretch. The workouts make me sleep like a baby.
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