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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jan 23, 2013 - 09:11am PT
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Aside from the side effect of causing you to change your name frequently, turmeric is good. Follow e..'s suggestion and google it.
Resveratrol is good.
Vitamin D is good.
Gluc/Chond worked well on my sore shoulder once. Doesn't seem to be nearly as effective these days. No studies of consequences of long-term use.
BTW - I have no arthritis, knee pain is due to torn meniscus.
Oh yeah, NAC (n-acetyl cysteine, precursor to glutathione) is good.
Capsaicin for immediate relief.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
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Jan 23, 2013 - 09:18am PT
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Donald Thompson is on track here.
After experimenting with the popular supplements for about 12 years, I came across something I rarely see in relation to arthritis type joint pain. Ph balance. Most Americans have an extremely acidic diet, coffee and alcohol are the #1 culprits, but our standard diet contributes.
I started brewing my own Kombucha a few years ago. While it is an acidic substance, it helps alkalize our system. This constant Ph toward the acidic is damaging to joints, and possibly muscle tissue, connections in the brain, etc. It seems that if you can get your Ph balance more in balance, toward the alkaline, it is soothing and healing to these stressed tissues.
Last summer my knees were absolutely killing me. I finally went in to see an ortho when the pain was making me nauseous. About that time I lost my job. I got 3 injections of hyralonic acid in my left knee over 2 weeks, the right one just needed a little rest.
1 week after the final injection, I left on the JMT. No, or little coffee, just green tea, and a fairly Ph balanced diet for 30 days.
My knees were pain free, and other than aches and soreness related to the pack, no muscle pain that lasted for days, no "fuzzy brain", in short, I felt 10 years younger.
More to this story;
When I went in to see the Dr., I got some blood work done and came back as Hypothryoid. They put me on Synthroyd, which helped pull me out of it, but was hell to take. I did not take any on the JMT trip, it messed with my heart rate at altitude too much and left me weak.
Anywho, after doing MORE research, I came across that Hypothyroidism is linked to acidic Ph. AND, that raw cruciform vegetables, chlorine and fluoride block thyroid hormone up take. As well as being acidic substances. Cook those veggies al dente and they transform.
I had been heavy on raw veggies, especially broccoli and cauliflower, drinking whatever water and using toothpaste with fluoride. You get the picture.
198 miles in 30 days cleared me out. The thyroid issue has resolved.
It's the Ph man, check it out.
(I use a ton of turmeric in my cooking, seems to help.)
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jan 23, 2013 - 10:16am PT
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Jim Fixx was a heavy smoker and had an extremely poor diet and lifestyle up till age 35. That's why his story was so compelling. Even after he started running, he felt diet was not that important. Drugs may or may not have helped, but educating people earlier in life about far better solutions will have the most impact. MD's just don't have the time for this. and look to other solutions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-robbins/what-should-we-learn-from_b_815943.html
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Jan 23, 2013 - 10:21am PT
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I tried Glucosemine until I discovered I had a shellfish reaction- not good. Ginger seems to help though.
I just had hip #2 replaced and not being able to take Vitamin I is a pain ... no nsaid's on blood thinners.. only for one more week though.
I think it interesting the link between stress and arthritis flares.. this certainly exists for me....
john
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 23, 2013 - 10:27am PT
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It is often a revelation to most docs that high glycemic carbs , when consumed without restraint , often leads to epidemic levels of Diabetes 2.
All I can say is that you have talked to a very small number of doctors, to make a statement about "most docs".
In reality, what most docs say when asked about giving such advice: a waste of time, because they'll follow it for a week, then stop. All objective measures worsen with time. That's experience from people who are actually responsible for what happens.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 23, 2013 - 10:29am PT
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P.S. KenM, yes, I realize Turmeric does nothing for the condition of my shoulder, but rather just manages the pain and inflammation.
There is nothing wrong with that in my book!
I'd take Turmeric in a second, if I didn't have repetitive kidney stones (one of which I'm dealing with at the moment)
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steve shea
climber
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Jan 23, 2013 - 10:52am PT
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For me with blown achilles, 1 ACL, 2MCLs, several tib/fib breaks, one severe I have an IM rod multiple plates and screws, and a neck fusion, I am in surprisingly good shape pain wise. I have been injured off and on since 1980 and am used to pain and rehab and all attendant problems. I think Steve A. is correct, use it or lose it. I think I have had some pain so long I've raised my pain threshold without thinking about it. I wanted to do mountain sports and figured out a way to cope. I'm lucky and still have good knee cartilage, genetics? The one residual effect from prior activity, I used to run a lot, is a bad case of IT band inflamation which will not go away. What to do? I work out 3 times week with a Mt. Athlete type program. Lots of core and movement. Drink lots of water and stretch. The workouts make me sleep like a baby.
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bjj
climber
beyond the sun
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Jan 23, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
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I had arthritis of the hip strike me at a relatively young age (42) about a year and a half ago. It happened during a summer where I was spending a lot of time in the gym, lifting very heavy and doing a lot of cycling. Just came out of nowhere and got pretty bad, pretty quick. It runs in my family, I have come to find out.
Within a few months it was so bad I had stopped all physical activity and was walking with a noticeable limp on numerous days of the week.
7 months ago, after ending up sedentary for half a year+ because of it, I started investigating options. Doctors told me surgery / replacement should be a last resort, especially because of my young age.
To make a long story short, what ended up helping the most was going to a Pilates studio and doing special strengthening exercises several days a week - along with general conditioning. I first hobbled in there 8 months ago almost 20 pounds heavier (including useless muscle bulk) with a massive imbalance of weakness across my whole lower left side. It was causing the additional problem of a knee pulled out of alignment and now starting to also hurt.
I won't claim I am 100% better, but it is now very manageable and for the most part no longer holds me back from any sports. Lack of range of motion means big left foot high steps and wide stems are pretty iffy, but besides that, I am good to go. I just have to come up with different solutions to certain moves.
I just started climbing again 3 months ago after being inactive (for other reasons) for 10 years, and the arthritis is still not yet a limiting factor. I am on-sighting hard 5.10 again. I'm also ok again on the bicycle, though I can't pedal in a full tuck. The thing that gives me the most scares, is walking DOWN steep hills, especially when I am tired. My left side becomes lazy when fatigued and I am prone to falling down on walk offs.
The only "supplements" I have used for it has been ibuprofen. I am going to start looking in to turmeic (sp?) and some of the other things listed.
So far, staying more active than ever, getting down to the lowest weight possible and keeping all the muscles of the area very strong have been the keys to slowing this down.
Good luck to all the cartilage deficient!
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wayne w
Trad climber
the nw
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Jan 23, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
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Bjj, you may benefit from using a pair of hiking poles, especially when walking downhill. Place the poles out in front of you to lean on when taking a step with your left leg. By using your upper body strength you can help to compensate for whatever weakness there is on your left side. Falling over is no fun.
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bjj
climber
beyond the sun
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Jan 23, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
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That would probably help, but means I'd have to bring them along on long routes for the walk offs. That's pretty much the only time I put myself in a position of doing long downhill hiking.
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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Jan 23, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
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Three years ago the main joint on my left big toe was basically frozen with limited range of motion, pain during walking, and excruciating pain with direct contact, so I couldn't even put on climbing shoes and foot jams were out of the question. The podiatrist I saw took x-rays and a few other tests and told me it was osteoarthritis and there was nothing I could do about it. He said it would only get worse over time, and I would eventually require a titanium joint replacement.
That was, of course, unacceptable. I went to see an accupuncturist who agreed that there is never "nothing you can do about it," and after three treatments of about 40 minutes, spread over two weeks, I had nearly full mobility and the pain was largely gone. I started taking glucosamine and fish oil supplements, and was able to lace on climbing shoes and return to the rock 2-4 times a week. I also massage in Iron Hand liniment or Arnica gel 1-2 times a day.
Today the toe is only slightly swollen looking, and is not a factor whatsoever as to what I can do. I just started taking daily turmeric about 2 weeks ago, so we'll see how that goes.
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Jan 23, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
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bjj- I had my first hip replaced at age 45, almost 8 years ago and it's doing great.
The left one, 2 weeks ago was " a bone not fit for beast or soup" shot. I weird because other than scopes, the knees are OK.. knock, knock
Edge- you got toes that the Doc says " I don't want to know.."
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c_vultaggio
Trad climber
new york
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Jan 23, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
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Another happy Turmeric user - I get mine through Mountain Rose herbs online, I think <$10 for a lb of organic. I mix in my breakfast cereal daily, about a total tbs worth or slightly more, with almond milk. Also good in a tea (almond milk, turmeric, honey, cinnamon, and cardamom).
Also check out Collagen - great research in the UK on auto-immune efficacy with joint issues. Something about how it steps in to prevent the body attacking the small joint tears (RA). I use a type II supplement in my smoothies mixed with a protein powder.
Fish oil I find works well (among other benefits) and would probably help the cause, I've had limited success with glucosamine/MSM.
Best words of advice for supps I ever got was "The most expensive supplement is the one that doesn't work." In other words, buy the expensive stuff if you want it to work, the cheap COSTCO crap will never absorb into your body.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Jan 23, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
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Ok, I'm gonna say it!!
As a chiropractor I see a lot of patients with joint pain. I'm assuming we're talking about the joint pain associated with osteoarthritis (OA) aka degenerative arthritis, degenerative joint disease (DJD), degenerative disc disease (DDD), etc. It's all roughly the same. It's not inflammatory arthritis (e.g. Rheumatoid Arthritis, Systemic Lupus Erythematosis, Reiter's Syndrome, etc.)
Many people do not know, and are quite surprised to learn that nearly every joint in the body can be "manipulated" or "adjusted". Does it feel "stuck"? Like it's not moving properly? Is it also a bit painful? Maybe more painful with certain movements than others? Well let me tell you my trick!! I adjust these joints when they don't move the way they should. By carefully and specifically introducing motion into joints, they experience a few benefits...
The first one is purely biomechanical: the joint can now move throughout its normal range of motion.
The second one is neurological: any joint in the body, when immobilized in one or more directions, sends pain signals back to the brain to let you know that something "ain't right". Performing the proper adjustment restores the joint to its normal position so that these neurological signals of pain are no longer sent.
The third one is biochemical: careful and specific manipulation of any joint increases the flow of synovial fluid to and from that joint, which is the fluid within the joint capsule that provides nutrients, shock absorption, etc.
A story: I have a patient with hip pain on the left side. The hip joint becomes painful, she feels it with each step, and the hip joint does not have its normal expected range of motion. The adjustment happens, the magical "pop" is heard, and she giggles EVERY TIME. She thinks I'm some sort of weird magician. Or the Bruce Lee of the spine (hip). She doesn't really care to hear the explanations, she just likes that it works. ;)
So there it is. Straight from a rock climbing chiropractor. Feel free to ask me anything at any time!
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Jan 24, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
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DMT, thanks for that post! I hope that I can serve as some sort of "ambassador" for my profession here at supertopo.
The way I explain the "cure-all" angle is like this: there is a "vocal minority" in our profession that operates in that manner. They believe that they're not responsible for diagnosing conditions, that all they do as a chiropractor is find subluxations, adjust the spine, and let the body heal itself. While that is consistent with licensing guidelines, state board requirements, etc., it's not the way to go, IMO. It's true that any doctor can practice any way they want once they get a license, they can be really weird and bizarre, do a lot of things that aren't evidence-based, and this includes many medical doctors as well as chiropractors.
I don't personally see chiropractic as a "cure-all", but occasionally people report odd things as a result of getting adjusted, like sleeping more soundly, breathing more easily, seeing or hearing more clearly, getting sick less frequently, etc. These are all things that chiropractors experience when they treat patients, it's what the patients tell me. I don't know for sure if that's really true, because a lot of these things haven't been studied in depth. But perhaps some chiropractors take those little tidbits and run with them, giving themselves more credit than they should...
I view my role as providing conservative (non-drug, non-surgical) outpatient care for musculoskeletal conditions. Occasionally I see people that have conditions that aren't helped by chiropractic care, so I refer them to the appropriate specialist (an M.D.). I run an evidence-based office, that's what I call it. I'm known for treating people just ONE TIME and "fixing them" with one good adjustment. I'm not worried about "retention" and keeping people coming back indefinitely. I figure they'll tell a friend about how I fixed them and I'll get referrals that way. Most people do adopt a schedule that works for them, like once per month or something. I definitely recommend that.
I gotta say that I give chiropractic a TON of credit for keeping me injury-free and feeling amazing. I climb 5 days per week and it definitely helps with the little aches and pains, and to stay flexible.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Jan 24, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
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I'm 27 and in an orthopedic waiting room to look into meniscus surgery on my knee. Am I screwed? Will I be on this thread in my 30s? Anyone have good news for me? Should I just become a golfer?
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Jan 24, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
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I'd consider "conservative care" options first! Being only 27, you might have a darn good chance of conservative interventions giving you relief, rather than going for the "big guns" (surgery)!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 24, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
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Limpingcrab, take up golf and you'll be knocking on Dark Magus' door regularly.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jan 24, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
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There is absolutely no correlation between arthritic aging changes and pain. Arthritis limits mobility, but does not "cause" pain (although the structural anomaly may 'trigger' it). Arthritis is one issue, pain is quite another. I read above where a 42 year old did a bunch of lifting and biking and then suddenly in two weeks, he was racked with crippling hip pain. Arthritis doesn't work like that. Arthritis is slow and gradual, not sudden and catastrophic. Self-imposed pressure to over-achieve, though, can trigger a PPD or chronic pain episode at the location of arthritic changes. Checking out the relationship between your unconscious emotional life and the onset of pain syndromes is the key to eliminating them. Utilizing the power of a placebo cure, like a joint supplement or chiro session, can also work too.
Although most aches and pains are 95% the result of stress, it's really important to get checked out by a traditional doctor to rule out any preexisting medical condition because a lot of autoimmune disorders (and cancer) can cause lower-back and joint pain.
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