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john hansen
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 4, 2007 - 01:11am PT
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They only used thirteen on the FA. How many now?
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Got to be a lot more than when I did it in 81...
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john hansen
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2007 - 01:17am PT
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Are there stories of when any new bolts were added, Piana's and Skinners belay on the headwall...
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monolith
Trad climber
Berkeley
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On the pitch to Long Ledge, there is a variation to the left that allows a bypass of Long Ledge. I'm guessing about 5 bolts. No doubt someone on ST has a better recollection then I do. I believe Piana and Skinner placed them.
These probably don't count as they are not directly on the route.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I don't know the current bolt count but here is an interesting historical tidbit. When RR made his third ascent of the route in 1976 there were 42. The first two repeats didn't carry a bolt kit, so between about 1966 and 1976 twenty nine bolts showed up!
Not too hard to see why lots of people like RR, YC and Roper were rabid about the spurious bolting issue.
I would like to figure out which positions are the original thirteen and replace the existing bolt hangers with replica stainless ones.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Steve, I believe all or most of the original bolts were below the Half Dollar. The heavy traffic on that part, and free ascents, may mean that most or all have been replaced.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I think that there is one original bolt protecting a hard move a pitch or two above Heart Ledge and that is the last of the thirteen. I will have to ask Royal next time I see him.
Warbler- I will also have to ask him about the incident where he demanded Graham's hammer after your futuristic little spree. Makes me chuckle every time I think of it.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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When my cousin George and I made the 7th ascent in '69, there were no additional bolts yet. But I heard that shortly afterward one was placed at a cruxy little move above Heart Ledge.
-JelloWithTheMemoryOfAnElephant
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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"The first two repeats didn't carry a bolt kit, so between about 1966 and 1976 twenty nine bolts showed up! Not too hard to see why lots of people like RR, YC and Roper were rabid about the spurious bolting issue."
Steve: We were down visiting Allen in Berkeley a couple of weeks ago, and he pulled out the film of the third (first non-Robbins) ascent. As you said, he and Roper and Long didn't take even a single bolt, but they did take a movie camera and plenty of film. Pretty amazing footage when you consider they learned how to use the camera the night before they went up. It currently exists in the form of a few VHS copies plus the original celluloid, but he said they're working on a DVD version, with commentary. That will be a treasure.
David
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Coincidentally, I just recieved a disk from my cousin yesterday, containing about 100 photos from old climbs we did together. Three of them were from our 1969 climb of the Salathe. Thought I'd share them.
-Jello
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Naw, Kevin, we had jugs, but hanging in mid air on goldline, you never stop spinning!
-Jeff
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WBraun
climber
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Yeah yeah like wtf man?
Holes in your jeans, a goldline POS rope and wtf happened to the bolts that are supposed to be on the wall behind your head there.
You Photoshop those away?
And looky here here kid you're not even tied in and your mom will suffer a stroke seeing sh'it like that.
Thanks for the great memories Jeff ..... w00t
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Those were good days, were'nt they? El Cap seemed SOOO big back then. I was quaking in my boots the day we started. Finally settled down after a couple days, and felt totally at home when we topped out on the fifth day. George and I discussed the freeclimbing possibilities along the way. He didn't think it would all go, but the thought stayed in the back of my mind as something to eventually try...
-JelloDreams
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Mimi
climber
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Nice shot and stories and an awesome thread! Back when Jello first appeared on the shelf.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Those are some great photos Jeff. Quite the youngster there!
Kevin I think I removed more bolts than we added in total. That should have made for only 8 bolts required for the whole route.
Damm Kids
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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I only recall 1 old bolt on the route, at the top of the hollow flake chimney pitch. There are plenty of bolts at belays but only 2 protection bolts on the original route above the Half Dollar. The bolt protecting the slab move off Heart, and the bolt added by Skinner and Piana on the headwall.
(Edit: Oh yea...forgot about the bolts on the roof pitch...don't recall how many)
About 1/2 of the bolts on the 2 Freeblast slab pitches are not necessary for freeclimbing, but removing them would definately increase the spice factor for those not confident on 5.11 slab. The slab crux on Freeblast is always a slight disapointment as I usually always use the huge chisled hook placement as a hand hold. It would be a lot harder without that hold.
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WBraun
climber
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After Skinner and Piana did their Salathe climb I saw many new bolts on the pitch going over the roof to the headwall.
Big ones, fat ones with slings on them.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Kevin the comment was more like “Immature Kidds” as I was told it went when Yabo confronted Royal in the parking lot. Yabo may have taken the origin of the myth with him.
Maybe it was something like 6 bolts. I’m sure you remember our first free version of that pitch followed a weakness of holds wandering around the bolt ladder making it rather useless. It’s sad upping the anti on the route didn’t keep it from being yet slain again with all the chipping - A more destructive out come than I imagined when removing the bolts. Still to this day I don’t think the logic was flawed but in hindsight just rerouting the pitch completely and having it as an option would have been the best. Then you’re back to the question would it have been really freeing a part of the Salathe?
Adding bolts to free routes isn’t new but its sure scrutinized more than it was 30 years ago. So I for one can’t get all up in a roar about it, its just evolution.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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A retro repair may be in order. Better late than never they say.
I actually wouldn’t mind doing that traverse from the Nose to the Salathe again. I think your memory on that is better than mine. Most I recollect about the deal was it was sure fun.
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WBraun
climber
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Hahahaha yeah Kevin LOL
But I tell ya, after you guys did the deed up there Dale got that pitch and he was swinging all over the place on that slab trying to get to the right place. I was laughing.
The next time, I made Merry lead it, cause I knew I would surely die.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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This is a Frost photo of RR at the fifth belay stance taken on the FA.
Three of the original thirteen bolts can be accounted for here. I recently asked RR if he remembered where the last original bolt was located and he couldn't recall.
I have a whim to replace the original thirteen bolts with stainless angle replicas to allow for some appreciation of the style of the FA. The sharp corners on the original hangers that were crucial for good bootbite back in the day will, of course, be eased considerably!
Any thoughts on refilling the original thirteen holes if that is reasonably discernable?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Some relevant quotes from Robbins' account of the first and second ascents, in the 1963 American Alpine Journal:
(First ascent)
"Altogether, in nine-and-a-half days of climbing, we placed 484 pitons and 13 bolts."
(Second ascent)
"We dispensed with a camera this time and did not carry a bolt kit."
"As the clouds scudded over our heads toward the north, Tom skillfully led the difficult section of the blank area where we had placed thirteen bolts the previous year. The use of more bolts in this area had been originally avoided by some enterprising free climbing on two blank sections and some delicate and nerve-wracking piton work. It would take only a few [more?] bolts to turn this pitch, one of the most interesting on the route, into a "boring" walk-up."
It sounds like all 13 bolts then were on the pitches below the Half Dollar. At least until certain Stonemasters arrived...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Tom Frost has got the eye for composition, hands down! So few El Cap routes have anything like a dozen total holes! It would also open the door for a first spotless ascent, original bolts only, otherwise hammerless.
SB in the Spring sounds good. And I got ya waxing all nostagic about the Graham Traverse so you are on board for the bottom of the Turning Point, me bucko!
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Hey, what are you guys up to?
You know with only 8 – 13 bolts for the route you would have to pull many boltless natural anchors. Back in the day those were Pin anchors! Makes me a little sweaty thinking of a bunch of cams for a station with a bunch of guys hanging (dicking) around on.
Reading back through this there is no way there were 46 or whatever bolts on this route back in 76. Royal must have been on something for that comment.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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The idea is not to clean house and make everybody spread 'em! Rather it is to provide in a relevant fashion some clue to the past. Once anyone paying attention to such details figures the shape and numbering scheme out it can't help but cause reflection especially once lucky thirteen was passed. It would be an interesting puzzle for everybody.
The West Face sounds like a good case too since only one replica/marker hanger would be necessary.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Here are some photos from November 2006 of the current bolts on pitches 5 and 6. I was having some bad camera problems on p5, so those photos are fairly ugly, but I believe they do show the bolt locations.
pitch 5, showing the current free line.
5-1 is a bolt at the top of the 5.10d groove. Probably not original. Probably a piton was used here originally, but the scar is too shallow for clean pro now, and it follows an 5.10a slab move, and protects a 5.9 section to bolt 5-2, so it probably needs to stay.
5-2 is probably original (or close to where the original one was). There might be a bolt between 5-1 and 5-2 that I backcleaned.
5-3 and 5-4 are not original, and probably added after Kevin and Mike freed their right side variation.
5-5 or 5-6 is probably the bolt Kevin placed; the other was probably added later.
I don't show the current belay bolt(s) (5-9?) at the end of the pitch; probably one was original.
pitch 5. View further to climber's left (skier's right). Dark spots 5A?, 5B? and 5C? might be where the original Robbins bolts were. Unfortunately the photo quality is very bad.
[Edit: I found the next 2 better quality photos from June 2007]
this time I backcleaned the slings from bolts 5-2 and 5-3
shows my aider on the free crux move (currently rated 5.11b, bolt 5-6) - I still had to do a couple of 5.10 moves out of the aider.
The chalked hold below 5-5 is probably the mantle Kevin describes in his post below,
so the bolt he placed when establishing the Free Blast with Mike was probably near 5-5 or 5-6.
Note that bolt 5-7 was simply placed next to the old 5-8, instead of in the original hole (not the right way to replace).
Anders' photo from 1976, bolt IDs by me
It looks like his partner just swung/lowered down from the nest of slings at 5-2 or 5C?
There is also the Frost photo of Robbins on p5, on p.63 of "The Vertical World of Yosemite", and a higher quality version on p.142-143 of "The Stanford Alpine Club" (photography editor: Glen Denny). In both versions, it seems clear that Royal's foot is in an aid sling, maybe on bolt 5-2. In the higher quality version, there is a bright spot that looks like a biner to the right, about halfway over to the top of the 5.10d groove crack. So that might be another bolt, or maybe a pin?
pitch 6.
I'm not sure which of these bolts were original. A few shallow pitons might have been used in a few spots, but the scars are no longer usable. I don't know if Tom Frost has a photo of this pitch.
There is a broken rusty 1/4" bolt remnant at 6A. It can be bypassed by a couple of 5.10+ moves or by reaching for the fixed pin with a cheater stick (or something improvised like some wired nuts girth hitched together). Neither of these techniques makes sense for the first ascent, so 6A was probably an original bolt (or maybe some holds broke off and the bolt was added later). It would be difficult to replace in its original hole, since the old rusty stud would have to be drilled out, but it is probably possible.
pitch 6, photo of Jeff Lowe in 1969, with my IDs of the bolts.
This should confirm that at least 6-2 and 6-3 are likely original.
pitch 6, Anders' photo from 1976, bolt IDs by me.
Looks very similar to 2007. Nothing at that location 6A, so it could have already broken off or been removed by 1976?
[Edit to hopefully clarify: when I used the terms "original" and "not original" above, and I explained why bolt 5-1 "needs to stay", I did not intend to suggest that all (or even some) non-original bolts should be removed. However, few would complain if 5-8 was removed and carefully patched. Since people do not use pitons there anymore, and piton scars have changed some of the placements, a rollback to the original equipment is not desirable. But I support Steve's interest in determining where the original 13 bolts were placed, and marking them with special hangers. That way, current climbers may gain some perspective on what the route looked like originally.]
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I'm not sure what the feeling is about belay bolts.
I can understand the "classic experience" sentiment, but personally a couple of well placed belay bolts don't detract for me from having a appreciation of the original climb.
And they can sure help my bad back when hauling.
I am guilty of adding one such bolt at the far right end of Mammoth (maybe in the background of George's pic of Jello) some thirty-odd years ago, but I have an "out".
I had just completed a new pitch up to Mammoth and wasn't really on the Salathe but rather the Dorn.
Wonder if it is still there (and if its still alone).
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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To be clear here, no house cleaning of extraneous bolts is proposed unless they are clearly idiot bolts. God forbid people have to set up their own gear anchors! LOL
I think the original holes might be 3/8". Any such observation Clint?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Question is are you the fish or the bait?
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Hey Kevin, doing well…
I agree that would be a fun day an especially out on that slab between the Nose and the Salathe. Still some adventure to be had there for sure.
Steve I think you are spot on with your idea. I have always enjoyed looking at the fine details of a route and think back as to how perhaps the FA party felt on it. I get equally strong feelings looking at something that’s gone free since then. Experiencing all the history of a route just adds more to the moment.
No bolts should be removed from anywhere on the route as even poorly placed ones are cause for reflection. The free climbing should supersede on any pitch (sorry)
Clint looking at all those bolts scattered around its hard to remember which way we actually took. I would guess in today’s shoes you would have more route options available. I do remember bolts weren’t skipped or removed to make it a bolder pitch they were just plain not needed. Obviously hind sight being what it is just adding the free variation and leaving the bolt ladder alone would have been the best choice.
If you look at the Salathe in its whole you see its not the most direct way up the Captian but that’s the beauty of it. Royal’s and Tom’s vision was a natural path that would yield a route with the least amount of unnatural placements. The path we chose on the slab followed the same premise, a weakness in a wandering line of holds. Not the most direct but the least evasive to the rock which after all should be our biggest concern.
I have posted this link before but I think its pretty relevant as well as a damm good story if you haven’t read it. Coming from a First ascension’est return to the Salathe there is no reference to the condition of the route only the experience of being up there again.
Salathe 2001
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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You guys have an interesting challenge ahead. It should help a great deal that you're debating the options in public (more or less), where others can put in their two cents if they want. Many will undoubtedly care about what happens.
I'm wholly in support of responsible climbers cleaning up the climb, including all the junk that has no doubt collected en route, the superfluous bolts (q.v.), etc. Perhaps Chris Mac could then be persuaded to publish an updated topo, showing the route's modern state - assuming there were any real changes. I might be able to help, as a Sherpa anyway, if it was done this fall. Perhaps a clean-up/restoration of one or other of the major Valley routes could be part of the FaceLift each year?
Part of the challenge may be defining what result(s) would be desirable. Another may be carefully measuring community expectations. For a route that's so well established, so heavily travelled (especially to Mammoth), and climbed in so many different styles, that could be interesting.
The prevailing style and expectation is that the Salathe Route (Wall) is 5.9 - middle 5.10, A2, meanders a fair bit, has a good share of wide cracks, and has lots of variety. Perhaps 60 - 70% free, for those climbing at moderate 5.10 level on the wall, and taking many 4 - 5 days. A small minority do the climb all free, in a day, etc. Many using significant variations, e.g. the Monster Offwidths or the pitches left of the Headwall. Most expect to find two good modern bolts (at least) at belays, which is two more than there were for virtually all the belays when the route was created.
I suspect that not many climb the lower pitches all free, or do the Free Blast traverse in from the first pitch of the Nose. I believe both are 5.11, as is some of the climbing on pitches 4 and 5 (leading up to the Half Dollar). Those two pitches are also rather beat out - I believe they originally involved nailing in seams, interspersed with bolts and free moves. So simply replacing the original 13 bolts, which were mostly in that area, won't really restore the route or that area to its state in 1962.
Making the route so that those lower pitches somewhat resemble what they were like in 1962, but meet other expectations - belay bolts, freeable by variations and protected for those able, aidable for the many who choose that - could be interesting.
I have some slides of the lower pitches from 1976, and will look to see if they shed any light on the status then.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Old pre-alteration photos are the key here unless my 3/8" hole size assumption turns out to be correct. Post away as it is clearly on topic! The cool thing about having Kevin and Mike involved is the accuracy of treatment of their contribution. I don't think the big downward traverse will ever see much action!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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This is more of a historical demarcation than a restoration effort, per se. Don't want to hit the route with the ugly stick!
Lots of bolts in that era were the Star drivin type placed shallowly. Do you guys remember crap sticking out above the hanger when you chopped them?
Hopefully, some early shot will reveal bolt type as visible from the other side of the angle stock hangers.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Wow Jello, classic. Makes me wish I had those early hardman experiences during the golden age, when the walls were uncrowded, and few climbed. Nearly every line you could dream would be a FA. Stay limits in the valley in Camp 4 were unheard of. The world was in better condition environmentally speaking, but even then it was changing fast.
Reminds me of the movie "SOLO."
A simple time machine just to go back to certain points in history and experience those special moments, without the possibility of changing the future would be something wouldn't it? I think I would keep going back to a time when Shrub wasn't the president.
Sure we can still have those same adventures today, but now you have to go to the remote ends of the Earth, travelling through beautiful countries where the people hate us (thanks Shrub!!). The vib is definately different and unsafe now and not because of objective dangers that mother nature throws at us.
There is something to be said about the Golden Age of Big Wall Climbing. Wish I had been there to experience that. I was 7 in '69.
Truly inspirational.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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OT, but the "environment" was objectively a lot worse off in many areas before the Clean Air and Water acts were passed. Rivers catching fire, that sort of thing.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Klimmer- you can be right there if you leave your hammer on the ground or otherwise factor some real uncertainty into your next adventure. The adventure that you experience while climbing is entirely dependent on style. Head on up there alone with a few Tiger Milk bars and couple of quarts of water and you have what they had!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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I added 3 more (improved) photos and more comments to my post above.
Ron,
> I am guilty of adding one such bolt at the far right end of Mammoth (maybe in the background of George's pic of Jello)
I'm pretty sure that the photo of Jello is on Hollow Flake Ledge. Compare with Tom Frost's photo of TM "hanging himself" on p.97 of "Royal Robbins, Spirit of the Age". You can see the contours on the outside of the ledge match perfectly. Also there is a small overlap where TM is anchored which is not very visible in the Lowe photo (no little overlap there at Mammoth). Also Mammoth is flatter right there.
> some thirty-odd years ago, but I have an "out". I had just completed a new pitch up to Mammoth and wasn't really on the Salathe but rather the Dorn.
:-)
> Wonder if it is still there (and if its still alone).
There are two there now. Very nice to have - I have used them several times.
Steve,
> I think the original holes might be 3/8". Any such observation Clint?
I don't know. I did it in '85 but haven't checked the slides yet and they may not show sizing.
The broken bolt remnant on p6 is definitely 1/4", but I don't know for sure if it was original. It seems likely to be original, though.
Kevin,
> I noticed the photos Clint posted appeared to be taken from the perspective of RR's belay in the historic Frost photo that Steve posted.
Yes.
> When Mike and I did the Freeblast, I distinctly remember continuing past the ladder a good sixty feet to a ledge below the Half Dollar to belay. This was a position where I couldn't see the bolt ladder, as the slab changes to lower angle above it.
It sounds like you combined part or all of what is now p6 - see the 1982 Meyers topo (or 1987, 1994).
> RR's belay in the Frost photo employed the last 2 or 3 bolts of his ladder, perhaps, and his rucksack hangs from the final (13th?) bolt.
> Is there a bolted belay stance there now?
Yes, there is a bolted belay stance right in the position of the Frost photo. That is the current end of p5 on the Meyers topo.
I can't accurately ID the bolts on the current p6 in Frost's photo. It would just take a new photo from that exact spot to do it, though.
Anders,
> Perhaps a clean-up/restoration of one or other of the major Valley routes could be part of the FaceLift each year?
I like the spirit, but I think it has to be done very carefully, so I don't think it should be annual or synchronized. It's not really the same as a bunch of people going out independently and clearing trash from the bushes.
> Most expect to find two good modern bolts (at least) at belays, which is two more than there were for virtually all the belays when the route was created.
Incidentally, there are still several belays without 2 big bolts. For example, the belay under the Half Dollar, and the next 2 above it.
I appreciate your excellent description of the kind of traffic the route gets.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I think that shot is all about TM's mug! But I'll check it after the game!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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What a game! Way to go Gints! Not much but a really good laugh to take away from this photo!
There is one bolt in the frame but not a lot of position information to be gleaned from it.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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A classic photo - although, unlike every other photo I've seen from that golden age of Yosemite, it appears a bit steeper than it really is. Probably the perspective from which it was taken. It depends on exactly where it was taken - there are steeper bits on that slab, but it's mostly lower angle.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Here are some pictures of pitches 5 and 6 of the Salathe (Meyers guide), taken in September 1976. Perhaps they'll help. If not, I can remove them. They're Kodachrome slides, and some got cropped by the scanner.
The first is looking down on pitch 5
Leading pitch 6 (to base of corner leading up to Half Dollar)
Looking down on belayer, pitch 5/pitch 6 belay
And there was this long-haired Canadian we met en route
(Photos of the long hair taken by Brian Wyvill.)
We got to Hollow Flake, and were defeated by a combination of hot weather, lack of resolution (mine), and concern for a guy who was trying to solo Magic Mushroom and seemed in trouble. At that time, all belays in the Meyers guide, at least to Heart Ledge, had bolt belays.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Anders,
Thanks for posting your scanned slides - I put some cropped versions with bolt IDs up in my post above.
That guy with the long hair looks pretty relaxed up there!
Kevin,
I doubt your bolt was at 5-8, because it's dead easy above that. Probably it was at 5-5 or 5-6, and the Leeper hanger was replaced sometime later.
Steve + Kevin,
The classic TM photo Steve posted is from The Vertical World of Yosemite, and I agree with Kevin's ID of its position, and with Anders that it is tipped a bit. The photo I was referring to from "Spirit of the Age" (on Hollow Flake Ledge) is different (he's pretending to be hung from a sling around his chest).
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Kevin + Mike,
> On Freeblast, Mike placed two bolts on the slab traverse we did from the top of the first pitch of the Nose to join the Salathe above the roof.
> That was some bold, thin slab climbing, right there.
I think the second of those bolts is easily visible from the belay on top of p3 of the Salathe':
It's at the left side of the photo, a little below the middle.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Clint should consider posting some of his work on the 'art' threads. It's quite interesting. Not that I know much about art. :-)
I only took the first and third photos that I posted - the others were by Blob. It's interesting - there's a faint green line across all four photos, that I hadn't noticed before. I wonder why?
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Mighty Hiker, if all those shots came out of the same camera, same roll of film, it is possible there was a very fine piece of grit trapped in the shutter area. The film gets dragged across the stationary grit and scratched. It would have to have cut only partly through the emulsion, otherwise the line would be a lot more distinct.
Since it is a weird color I think the more likely culprit is your scanner, some kind of digital artifact?
Check the slides with a loupe to see if they are damaged and you will have the answer. I hope it is just some scanning artifact and your slides are still perfect!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks! The photos were taken with two different cameras, so I suspect it's an artefact. I'll fish out the slides and look, and check my scanner.
Edit: Checked, scanned some other slides. It must be the scanner.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 17, 2008 - 01:41pm PT
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So where does the last original bolt position end up folks? Top of the ladder on six or at a belay higher up?
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CF
climber
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Feb 17, 2008 - 07:10pm PT
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The original Meyers 8.5x11 top bound guide shows 14 bolts on the Salathe.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 27, 2008 - 02:09pm PT
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Well here it is folks and right now this one goes into the highest original hole on the sixth pitch. Unlikely that the last drilled anchor would have been a belay bolt above that point but the question remains open.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:52am PT
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I went up the Free Blast a few weeks ago and took several photos of the bolts. It looked like the original bolts were 1/4" or 3/16" star dryvin or similar with a sheath and nail. I will try to get a few photos up.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 29, 2008 - 12:38am PT
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Do you agree that the last original bolt was at the top of the ladder on pitch six? I think all the original holes were shallow 3/8" and nail drive filled. Tom Frost still had some and they weren't Stardrives. Ken has a few tucked away along with the rest of Tom's little used bolt kit.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 15, 2008 - 10:50am PT
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How does the belay station at the end of pitch six look with respect to a boltless anchor? That would be the highest logical spot for the thirteenth bolt.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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May 15, 2008 - 08:03pm PT
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Steve,
Nice hanger #13! Excellent idea to start with that.
> Do you agree that the last original bolt was at the top of the ladder on pitch six?
Yes, I think it was 6-6 as labelled in the various photos.
The bolt ladder on p6 is in 2 parts - 5 bolts (6-1 to 6-5), a broken bolt, then a pin and 2 more bolts (6-6 and 6-7). I think there used to be a big bashie instead of the bolt which is currently at 6-7.
> I think all the original holes were shallow 3/8" and nail drive filled. Tom Frost still had some and they weren't Stardrives. Ken has a few tucked away along with the rest of Tom's little used bolt kit.
Judging from the remnants still in place (see photos in my next post), I think they were 1/4" and nail drive filled.
> How does the belay station at the end of pitch six look with respect to a boltless anchor? That would be the highest logical spot for the thirteenth bolt.
I think the p6 anchor was originally boltless. Pins can be placed in that corner. There is one old bolt with a bent, drilled piton hanger next to the crack, but I don't think it is original. The current station has 2 big Todd & Paul bolts:
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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May 15, 2008 - 08:08pm PT
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Here are more bolt photos from a trip up the Free Blast on March 17, using the same labels as before.
my attempt to recreate Frost photo of RR which Steve posted above, but I think I needed to be higher, at the bolt 5-B.
Also, I think RR was lower than Jared, probably with his feet on the stance where bolt 5-7 is now:
I wonder how Royal freed the section above the lowest visible bolt?
Up and right, or down right from the bolt (that would put him over near where the Free Blast version goes).
And, is the visible bolt the one labelled 5-C in other photos? Or was the visible bolt removed by Mike and not replaced?
Note: by "original" rawldrive, I mean prior to replacement. It was not placed on the FA, since it is over on the free variation.
Most likely, the bolt Kevin Worrall placed on the FFA of the Free Blast was 5-5 or maybe 5-6.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 10, 2008 - 07:49pm PT
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Thanks to Ken I have it on good authority that all of the original thirteen bolts are located on pitches 5 and 6. The museum exhibit features Roper and Steck narrating a color film of the third ascent of the Salathe.
Anybody have a shot of the crack at the sixth belay?
How many bolts total below the belay at six at present?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:21am PT
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My interest is in replacing the original FA bolt positions so that folks might appreciate Tom, Royal and Chuck's extraordinary efforts and skill in crafting such a magnificent line.
I have floated the concept of a "spotless" ascent which is to say original holes only and no fixed gear allowed otherwise. The Rowell-Robinson-Henneck ascent of Half Dome was one fixed pin shy and so was Bruce Carson on the West Face of Sentinel. It is potentially another layer of challenge and accomplishment through better style with no downside. For classic, low bolt count routes, a worthy game.
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john hansen
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 12:26am PT
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"A worthy game", indeed.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 12, 2008 - 12:48am PT
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Glad that you agree. I just read in Rawlings' and Denny's superb history of the Stanford Alpine Club that your father flew P-38's in WW2 and was fond of proclaiming "no guts, no glory!" before tucking and bombing downhill on skiis. Bring back any memories?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 17, 2008 - 04:11pm PT
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Do I have the wrong Hansen here?!?
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Aug 17, 2008 - 04:13pm PT
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set of draws and 1 70m should get you to the summit now...
oh and maybe a few cams and nuts?
ks
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 17, 2008 - 05:33pm PT
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That still won't get ME to the summit!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2008 - 06:40pm PT
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Steve, Kevin probably wasn't suggesting that YOU free solo the Salathe!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 17, 2008 - 11:33pm PT
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What , you think I'm scared or or or or or what?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 18, 2008 - 10:15am PT
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Remember the DUPED (Designed Ultimate Peel Escape Device)? Seems like it showed up in a late seventies cartoon or something...
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Aug 18, 2008 - 11:06am PT
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Now that you mention it Kevin that might be Potter’s plan after his test drive on the Eiger.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Aug 18, 2008 - 11:27am PT
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There you have it, Sound's like they gave you the WORD
anyway you'd need two chutes, the extra for your BALLs
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jstan
climber
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Aug 18, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
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If you use a small oxyacetylene torch ( maybe 35 pounds) you can clear the metal from all the trashed bolt holes and restore the holes using epoxy rock paste topped with straight rock. Near full restoration I would think.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 18, 2008 - 11:26pm PT
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Just imagine the uproar! Especially all but one of the bolts gone from the West Face! Sure would bring back the mystery all of a sudden. LOL
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| Messages 1 - 70 of total 70 in this topic |
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