Murf
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:42am PT
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it has to do with RV and DE EE getting all kinds of praise for their visionary excellence, and all the kudos for the excellent route that they did, five stars, the best route in Josh, Pictured on Magazine covers
There's a story in the new Josh Classics book about the FA of Crime of the Century (it's been told on the Taco as well). The particulars escape me, but it involves absent partners, poaching of a route, all the same sordid nonsense. At the end, the guy who was left out (Yaniro I believe) was apologized to. His response was along the lines of , "It's just a route, and you guys are my bros. Lets go climbing."
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Dr. F.
climber
So Cal
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:43am PT
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I placed the fourth or the fifth bolt, just above where you are on the photo above, and then backed off, since I could not see the next stance,
Randy put in the next two
At the end, the guy who was left out (Yaniro I believe) was apologized to.
did they tell him he probably couldn't do the route anyway, so it was for his own good that he was left out
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Murf
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:47am PT
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I placed the fourth or the five bolt, just above where you are on the photo above, and then backed off, since I could not see the next stance, Randy put in the next two
Come on Craig, editing is weak! If you have the story so firm in your mind, why did you just change that post from:
I placed the fourth bolt,
to
I placed the fourth or the five bolt,
edit for
Now it reads:
I placed the fourth or the fifth bolt,
As well as quoting my Yaniro post.
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Dr. F.
climber
So Cal
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:50am PT
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Because DE said he placed the next bolt
and I don't want to make him any madder than he already is
I know I placed that bolt, right above his head
he says he did, did he?, I see no picture of him up at the stance drilling
I can not remember exactly how many bolts DE placed
edit: I will edit all I want
Whats your problem you got a stick up your butt, or what
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Murf
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:53am PT
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Because DE said he placed the next bolt and I don't want to make him any madder than he alrready is
So what is this a vendetta against Vogel only? Pistols at ten paces?
I know I placed that bolt, right above his head he says he did, did he?, I see no picture of him up at the stance drilling
Where are the pictures of you on it at all?
I can not remember exactly how many bolts DE placed
But I thought it was so clear in your mind?
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Murf
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:54am PT
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edit: I will edit all I want
Whats your problem you got a stick up your butt, or what
Pssst, Craig? There's a mirror in the restroom at the office. Take a quick break (and a deep breath) and go take a look at it.
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Johnny K.
climber
Southern,California
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:55am PT
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With all due respect to,bolts at Joshua tree always bring out the worst in people.Period.
Life is too short for bs.Talk less,climb more.
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Dr. F.
climber
So Cal
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:57am PT
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What is clear in my mind is the Fact; that it was only me and Spencer that started the route, and I was team leader, I found the route, I started the route, I brought them all to the Base to work on MY Route
The the exact details of who put what bolt in may have escaped my mind
The only issue here is ONE, was the route stolen or not?
so you are just being an as#@&%e asking about what I said about what bolt
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Feb 10, 2011 - 10:59am PT
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As you can see in the photo the fourth bolt has not been placed yet. I stood up and placed it.
Randy placed the fifth bolt.
I'm not mad about anything.
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Dr. F.
climber
So Cal
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:02am PT
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So its all OK that RV and DE EE stole my route
You are OK with that
and I have a problem for talking about it
what can I talk about??
and what other things should I not talk about??
take a look in the mirror, you must hate yourself for letting routes be stolen, and then giving credit to route thieves
DE didn't know why I wasn't there the day they finished the route, it was RV decision to steal it, and he didn't tell DE the truth
I will not answer any more questions about who placed which bolt, since we will never have a consensus
But we do have a consensus on who started the route, and who finished it
and that is the question we are discussing, not about the bolts
But I do remember placing he bolt above Dave's head, so we have another stalemate
I placed the bolt, then came down
I'm not sure that the picture of DE was even the same day as when I was there, so I can not comment anymore on Dave's Memory
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Murf
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:06am PT
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Craig seriously...
Sketchy sez
I am very sorry that we did not wait for you Craig.
Craig was an inspired, talented and motivated Josh climber. It was a pleasure to have called him a friend and to have shared time at the crags. I choose to remember and leave it at that.
Make him buy you a beer or something....
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Murf
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:10am PT
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So its all OK that RV and DE EE stole my route
You are OK with that
"We" aren't the problem. You have the issue, and it seems like nothing will ever set it right. You want the world to acknowledge your complete awesomeness? The world has moved and the FOTL is a obscure footnote.
take a look in the mirror, you must hate yourself for letting routes be stolen, and then giving credit to route thieves
I think a lot of things when I look in the mirror. It usually involves terms "fat ass" and "muffin top".
DE didn't know why I wasn't there the day they finished the route, it was RV decision to steal it, and he didn't tell DE the truth
And for this you want... what exactly?
EDITED TO ADD:
I will not answer any more questions about who placed which bolt, since we will never have a consensus
Checks clipboard, OK, crosses off "Issue: who placed what bolt".
But we do have a consensus on who started the route, and who finished it and that is the question we are discussing, not about the bolts
Checks clipboard... scratches out hate, remorse, anger. Writes, "Issue 1: who started it... Issue 2: who finished it."
But I do remember placing he bolt above Dave's head, so we have another stalemate
I placed the bolt, then came down I'm not sure that the picture of DE was even the same day as when I was there, so I can not comment anymore on Dave's Memory
Checks clipboard, shakes head, pencils back in "Issue: who place what bolt".
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Dr. F.
climber
So Cal
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:11am PT
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But we can have so much more fun discussing it forever, yes
Randy did apologize somewhat, but he has not agreed to the problems with the FA
He apologized for making me mad, and not waiting for me
and still claims all the glory for the ascent
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Murf
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:17am PT
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But we can have so much more fun discussing it forever, yes
Randy did apologize somewhat, but he has not agreed to the problems with the FA
He apologized for making me mad, and not waiting for me
and still claims all the glory for the ascent
At the end of the day, the glory goes to the guys who stood on top first. Not sure who you can argue about that point with.
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Dr. F.
climber
So Cal
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:27am PT
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No argument there
But like other tainted ascents
the taint could be mentioned along with the glory
Isn't this waht we do on ST
argue about old things, and talk about getting screwed
I don't give an F about the route now, but I stil love to talk about it
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Friend
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:28am PT
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This thread is a riot, I love it. All I would like to add is:
Thanks Dave and Randy for this kick ass route. The two of you are true visionaries.
Here's yet another old (but not THAT old) shot, mid 90s:
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Dr. F.
climber
So Cal
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:32am PT
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DE EEE
How do you feel about being a True visionary of the route?
Please tell us
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