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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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If they didn't f*#k up, they'll be fine. That story you linked doesn't map to the charges though. Seems a lot was left out.
I've got a buddy who's a former SeAL. Good, scary guy. They put up with and deal with a lot of sh#t I can't even imagine. Hope everything works out okay for them. I can't stand to see soldiers on trial. Generals, Admirals, beauracrats, fine.
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WBraun
climber
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Navy Seals
On land, top conditioned climbers always kick the seals asses.
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Jason Torlano
Social climber
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I have been all around the world in the Army and as a Contractor and the Military has done me right from the start of my service to the end. and the people we "U.S" have helped is amazing. Karl you should see the look in the peoples eyes when they are free and can walk down the street. My friends who have been killed or injured have all been taken care of. Stop watching CNN. Karl if you want to see how good we are doing in Afganistain take a trip to Kabul, Panshir valley etc and see how many people say thank you. War is ugly. Sometimes it is the only option for freedom which many Americans take for granted. You can not truly appreciate your freedom until you have it taken from you.
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FeelioBabar
Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
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Who fuggin cares about some ghey survival of the fittest shows.
Climbing doesn't mean sh#t either. It's a self serving wankfest compared to what these amazing warriors do selflessly for us all, every day.
Coz nailed it.
Carry on.
Son of a SEAL.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Maybe this isn't the thread for it Jason, but you brought it up.
I confined my comments in this thread to Iraq, which was not a justified war. It's not up to us to bomb countries into accepting the freedom we think they should want. Iraq is still not better off than it was, and God only knows when it will be. Over a hundred folks died from bombs just yesterday in Bagdad. You think passing dominance from Shiites to Sunnis is really worth a trillion dollars, 2 million refugees fleeing from their homes and haven't returned, and not to mention untold thousands dying, when these guys never attacked us? If you'd like to get get permanently injured over there to change Iraqi tribal politics, perhaps I respect that but wish to protect others from that fate.
Afghanistan? The US top soldier says we're losing there, after 8 years, losing, and much of the country is a no-go zone after all this time. Soviets lost there too and they had more to lose.
http://tinyurl.com/yztpxcd
"This is the most dangerous time I've seen growing up the last four decades in uniform," Adm Mike Mullen told audiences of soldiers and marines, some of whom are weeks away from flying to conflict.
"We are not winning, which means we are losing and as we are losing, the message traffic out there to [insurgency] recruits keeps getting better and better and more keep coming..."In the long run, it is not going to be about killing Taliban," he told the marines at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina. "In the long run, it's going to be because the Afghan people want them out."
So tell me, if the Afghans (who everybody says are tough as nails,) wanted what we are offering, and we have all the powerful weapons, how come the country has such huge areas under Taliban control? Doesn't add up, a weakly armed minority does not dominate a powerfully armed Majority.
Nobody likes their invader. Sure some will say thank you. Some will mean it cause they were on the outs with the old power and some say it because you're the guys with the new power.
Guys who serve in the military sometimes die in their service and often are gravely injured. We need politicians who only put them in harms way for serious and honest reasons
PEace
Karl
Coz wrote
"In all the years, I have work proudly with them, I have never heard an argument about any war, they just serve and they don't need to say anymore. I think many people do not realize the world is not a perfect place, that bad people exists, and we need warriors and heros (someone who does something greater than themselves)."
Yup, the military folks themselves are not inclined or even allowed to call bullshit on the wars that politicians send them to. We have to do it or we let down those who we are asking to die for us. It's cheap to laud the soldiers without defending them from unwise conflicts or being contaminated with DU for that matter.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2009 - 01:20pm PT
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Admiral Mullen is a f*#king disgrace to people fighting in Afghanistan. I heard that whole speech. What a dick!
First lower morale and then insinuate the mission is futile. This to Marines preparing to deploy.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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All people who serve should be given respect and honor no matter if they are an E-1 or all the way to 4 star generals, no matter if they are lowly dish washer cooks or elite Rangers, Special Forces, SEALS, or what have you.
However, good people can go bad. Erik Prince Blackwater/Xe case in point. Also there are high-level trained assassins in the ranks right now, and these operations are ultra black-op secret. Case in point those who were there to back-up and shoot MLK Jr. if the designated assassin didn't do it. And another who confessed to assassinations and taking out our own service men who stood against these dark powers within the government and Armed Forces. The one Navy SEAL who was an assassin and who was an S-4 sentry at Area 51, Groom Lake, Papoose Lake, in Nevada comes to mind. I'll have to find the links to that and post it.
Yes, we have secret assassins, and they even answered to the devil himself, Dick Cheney, but then you guys all know that right?
Should we honor these individuals who do such evil and wickedness?
I don't think so. They are traitors and their acts are acts of treason.
Good people can go bad in a big way.
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Jason Torlano
Social climber
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Karl We will never agrea with each other I respect your opinion. Admiral Mullen is a politician not a warrior. My hat and thanks go out to the families of the brave and talented special operation soldiers of America who give their lives daily for our freedom.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Thanks Jason
I respect your opinion as well and particularly since you've been there.
Always happy to agree to disagree and wish to maintain my respect of those in the service while holding the politicians to their word.
Now you called a military man a politician (and at that high level, he may be heavily influenced) but that just goes to show that politics affects the welfare of the troops, which is my beef.
PEace
Karl
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ME Climb
Social climber
Behind the orange Curtain
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Bluering for bringing this topic up:
HOO YAAAA!
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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What if?
The worst paranoid fears of right-wing Americans have been realized.
President Obama has ordered 30,000 troops to go to Venezuela to help Hugo Chavez create a socialist utopia.
But you wouldn't want to talk about that.
You'd just want to talk about how bad-ass those SEALs are.
They'll be risking it all, and some will die fighting against the Venezuelan conservatives and moderates that pose no danger to us.
But let's not talk about that.
As we spend our human and monetary treasure, let's talk about how much we respect our warriors while we show them by sending them to fight for a socialist demagogue.
Of course sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight for organized crime and drug traffickers is an even better way to show our respect, right?
But let's just talk about respect.
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General Ripper
climber
GnarthWest
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Dec 10, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
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"I never joined the army because "at ease" never seemed that easy to me. It seemed rather uptight, still. I do not relax by putting my arms behind my back and parting my legs slightly, that does not equal ease to me. At ease is not being in the military. I'm eased bro, cause I'm not in the military."
-Mitch Hedberg
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 10, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
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Nice post Wanda
It's always good to sample the shoe on the other foot
If more people looked at both sides of each coin, we'd have to send soldiers to fight less often
Peace
Karl
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Dec 10, 2009 - 03:49pm PT
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yeah... I'm with the "Support Our Troops" side of this debate (is it that yet?)
I cannot support the system that sends good human beings off to do whats best for business under the guise of "spreading democracy", or even for the betterment of the business classes", not even to "growth" reasons....
Plus, there is no honor once one of these warriors comes back home....
Don't even take my word for it.... More and more often I'm hearing about suicide being one of the leading causes of casualties on the Armed Forces.... I wonder why that could be? I wonder what kind of situation is a warrior in that would lead so many to off themselves while in the armed forces? hmmmm.. nobody wants to say that there is a problem within the system, and offer up possible solutions to the problem.. they just keep telling me to support my troops.. then tell me to shut up and don't ask questions....
my 2Cents....
no need to offer a refund neither
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Dec 10, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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Juan, you're a f*#king moron. The only reason the united states would send 30,000 troops to Venezuela is to participate in a coup. Obama is no socialist, he's a populist liar. He's MUCH more right-wing than any of us who voted for him would like.
Keep drinking that Fox news Kool-aid. They get advertising dollars by keeping their viewership up, which is accomplished by creating controversy where there isn't one, keeping those with an over-developed reptilian brain foaming at the mouth. As an example, "czars". OMG ROFLMFAO.
First "Czar" appointed by Reagan, "Czar" program greatly expanding by W, but now that Glen Beck shits disinformation into their willing ears, it's suddenly a big deal.
People are such gullible, brain-dead sheep.
As for Afghanistan, I'm finding hard to understand how when George W. was in office, anyone who questioned in any way how we deploy our military resources was labeled as "Hating America", and "anti-freedom"., Butnow that Obama wants to finish choking down the sh#t-sandwich that Bush created, it's suddenly "Patriotic" for all the right-wingers to be calling for the troops to come home.
Care to explain that for me?
Me: Pro-military, anti war, pro-diplomacy, anti pre-emptive strike.
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Dec 10, 2009 - 03:58pm PT
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Jingy, you're on the money. My best friend since I was 7, just completed his tour in Fallujah as a Force Recon marine. His account of military life is somewhat shocking.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 10, 2009 - 04:07pm PT
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FATRAD,
I spent 20 years in South Central and East LA without a gun, your a wimp.
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