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randomtask

climber
North fork, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 11:31pm PT
Gene,
I read every post.


I think SEALs are bad ass. I've read a lot of books by SEALs...they are bad asses. BY SEALs and not ABOUT SEALs.
BUD/S alone sounds like hell. I don't think I could make it through that. The lack of sleep, I'd get over, but the freezing cold you endure in Hell Week. Hell no!!

Whatever, I'm not bashing them OR taking anything away from them.

Why can't Karl make those statements??? In this time, with this war, People llike Karl need to speak those things that others feel are inapropriate regardless of what thread it is on. Oh and yeah, blah,blah,blah I missed your point and blah,blah,blah, you missed mine. But this obviously isn't the time or place.
-JR
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 11:37pm PT
Thats one word there Crowley...Sacrebleu!
WBraun

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 11:38pm PT
Is that what makes a bad ass? You sh'it in your pants?

Hahahaha

So then all climbers are bad asses too? They all seem to say they've sh'it in their pants too.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 11:44pm PT
Not bad ass enough Werner?
How about having poisonous snakes crawl over and around you for hours,
while you can't move a muscle or make a sound?
How long could you do that?

Try crawling on your stomach, an inch at a time, and straightening the flattened grass with your toes so as not to leave a trail in the grass.
Oh and "sleep" is out of the question....you can't take a nap in the middle of a mission in enemy territory..
So while laying flat on your stomach, you lift your head up off the ground, close your eyes and squeeze in a 3 second nap.
The idea is that as soon as you fall asleep, your face will smack into the ground and wake you up!






john hansen

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 11:44pm PT
I just finished the book "Lone Survivior" and have the utmost respect for those guys. It does make you wonder thou.. why did the guy that won the Medal of Honour,die, exposing himself to fire while trying to make a 'cell phone call' to try to save his unit.

Why dont these guys have radio's that work? Couldn't they use 'sat' phones?
These guys are the most elite fighting force in the world, but they cant make a phone call?

I read another book called 'Roberts Ridge' and it seems sometimes these elite forces are good at stirring up hornet's nest's. In this one 12 or 15 guys landed on top of a mountain that just happen to have a hundred Taliban fighters dug in on it.

They pulled up to get away from the RPG,s and one guy fell out the back,,, by the time it was over three helicoptor's had gone down and they had suffered many casualty's.

Same in Mogodishu,, the "Delta Force " guys had to run out of the city???? Wheres the calvary?

All due respect for the special forces, they should get the backup they need.

SNAFU... situation normal, all fu#ked up..


WBraun

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 11:53pm PT
Let me tell ya.

I worked some 5 Survival of the Fittest shows.

The Navy Seals came in last.

The climbers kicked their asses bad.

Now I know one Valley Park Ranger who became a seal, he was a climber too! When he wanted to join they said he was too old but he could try out anyways and then they thought they'd eliminate him in a few days.

He was in the top of the class and they gave him special permission to go on and become a true Navy seal.

Park Ranger becomes Navy seal and was top in the class .....
coiler

Trad climber
The Rock Monkey Ranch
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:01am PT
You don't have to be a Navy Seal to go land, sea, and air. I do it all the time. I ride my 750 motorcycle to Columbia airport (O22) where I jump in my '61 Cessna 150A, I then fly to Watsonville airport (WVI)... head out to Moss Landing and sail the "dutchman", my 27' sloop, out on Monterey Bay.
There you have it; Land, Sea, and Air (in one day). You don't have to get sh#t on by some DI, get sent to f*#ked up Iraq, or be GW's pawn to make it happen. Easy Money Bitches!
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:05am PT
Werner, don't you get it?
It's not about fitness level...it's how much can to take physically and mentally and not give up or quit.
WBraun

climber
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:09am PT
"Werner, don't you get it?"

Don't be so sure.

Never underestimate ..........
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:13am PT
Ok, one more thing....

Most people think that the SEALs are like Delta Force, whose missions are generally hostage rescue/precision strike force etc...

Nope.

For the vast majority of SEAL missions, the point of the mission is to gather intelligence data, but to NOT be seen by or engage the enemy at all.
Being spotted or engaging the enemy in a firefight would be considered a failure.
Missions are generally deep behind enemy lines and support is not an option.
The teams are usually dropped miles from the objective and sneak in, then sneak out, without firing a shot.
They do not go on offensive missions.
If they are firing at the enemy it is usually only to cover their evac, which is also typically quite a ways away from the objective.
So if guns are blazing, something has gone wrong.


Hey Bart,
I believe SEAL Team 6 did not officially exist when your bro was on.
Was he on Team 6 when they went and got Noriega?
I know a guy who was on 6 then.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:39am PT
Believe me, we had guys over there that looked like Iraqi's,
blending in with the population, just waiting for the green light to put a bullet in his head..
We had them there in the first gulf war too. So did the Brits.
But remember, the US doesn't officially do assassination,
and once the war broke out, Saddam took extreme measures to
make sure his location was kept secret.
He was veeery worried about being nabbed by the US.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:47am PT
You think we should have assassinated him before the war?
Hahaha!
OMG, so then you'd be going on and on about "Dubya, the cold blooded murderer!"

Riiiiight.


BTW, I meant before the war. We had spies gathering intel way before the sheite went down.
Do you seriously think we didn't?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:54am PT
Come on Shack, I thought this thread wasn't supposed to be about the war. Since you bring it up, I'll say that the war had nothing to do with Saddam if we couldn't also bring our troops there, establish a presence, and orchestrate a 'friendly' government there.

After all, Saddam offered to step down and leave to another Arab country if he could bring a billion dollars with him. We told him to shove off. That would have saved some soldiers and cash right there.

peace

Karl
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 23, 2007 - 02:03am PT
Karl, I didn't bring up Saddam, Crowley did...
but your right, I shouldn't have acknowledged his lame post.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 23, 2007 - 02:47am PT
Well at least the semi-off topic remarks in an off-topic thread keep it bumped.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 23, 2007 - 03:02am PT
"His final mission was on June 28, 2005, when he led a four-man Seal unit searching for a Taliban leader behind enemy lines. The Americans were spotted about 24 hours after being dropped in a mountainous stretch of eastern Afghanistan’s Kunar Province, according to the Navy. A firefight erupted. The Americans, vastly outnumbered, took cover in the steep slopes as the batted raged for more than two hours.

But then, according to Hospital Corpsman Marcus Luttrell, the unit’s only survivor that day, Lieutenant Murphy made his way toward the exposed ridge between the mountains, making him an easy target. “I was cursing at him from where I was,” he recalled in an interview. “I was saying, ‘What are you doing?’ Then I realized that he was making a call. But then he started getting hit. He finished the call, picked up his rifle and started fighting again. But he was overrun.”

The call placed by Lieutenant Murphy led American commanders to dispatch a small rescue force that included an MH-47 Chinook helicopter with eight Seals members and eight Army special operations soldiers. But a rocket-propelled grenade struck the slow-moving helicopter as it approached, killing all 16 men aboard. Lieutenant Murphy and two others in his unit were killed in the firefight. Corpsman Luttrell escaped, and took refuge in a village until he was rescued several days later.

Corpsman Luttrell and the other two men who were killed, Gunner’s Mate 2nd Class Danny P. Dietz and Sonar Technician 2nd Class Matthew G. Axelson, all received the Navy Cross.
"

All-in-all this sounds like a high-risk, but poorly resourced and supported DA operation plan given it was in the Pashtun-dominated northeastern Kunar province right on the border with Pakistan. It was deep into the heart of enemy-controlled territory. On a CSAR hot extraction like that I would think AC-130 gunship support would have been all but mandatory to really have had a good chance of success. Who knows whether one was planned to be available or not. In the end, though, I can't help but think this unfortunate event was at least partly a result of spreading our resources too thin over both Afghanistan and Iraq. To my way of thinking, that this was a SEAL mission at all, rather than an Army SPEC OPS one, speaks volumes to that in and of itself. Heros one and all, but it's hard not to believe this was a case where we weren't necessarily "supporting our troops" to the best of our ability.
Bart Fay

Social climber
Redlands, CA
Oct 23, 2007 - 03:08am PT
Shack, IIRC, My Brother was done standing up Six by then and had trained several
of the guys that got misused going for Noriega at that airfield.
He went back to Coronado to instruct for a couple years and then a couple more
at One, next door.

You're not gunna hear me saying that those guys are "Bad Asses".
But, each one I met was exceptional, once you got to know him.
And every one would have filled some place in "our" cherished perception
of the hard core climber lifestyle. Tarbuster to Largo...
Sorry, the Yabo's washed out. I met a few of them, too.

You should have seen the old maroon Dodge Power Wagon (50s SUV) thing that
they drove back to VA Beach when the got the call to Six. Long hair, beards,
bandanas, paisley vests even. You'd have bet they had several kilos in the back.

Wonder what they showed any Highway Patrol that chose to stop them.
Security clearances, stowed weapons, and even a little respect is my guess.

Course, I was a 16 year old kid and even then, cried that night watching them drive off
to begin their next set of adventures. I was not real psyched about him being shot at.

And Werner, we get it. You've self-actualized beyond all the rest of us.
Your depth of understanding transcends.

He's just my Brother.

Edit: And he's probably a lot like you guys.
Salathiel

Trad climber
South Beach, FL
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:32pm PT
They are men, doing a job. I have interacted with a lot of them, and can say that they are as human as each and every one of us. there are climbers I know that remind me of the special ops guys I have met in that they have the same ability to shut out the noise when the volume gets turned up.

In the Olympics, no one seems to care that you were the fourth best - he11, even silver and bronze medalists are considered slackers by the lethargic masses that observe what they do.

With climbers and SEALs and Olympic and professional athletes, or anyone, we are always critical of those in the elite because we expect so much from them and hang so much on them that when OUR expectations are not met, we criticize them.

We must remember though, we are all men (and women) and that is all we can be.

Note to Werner: except you of course - you have transcended all of us ;)

Blur
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
Here's an interesting study into why some people are better suited for the rigors of Special Forces training and less succeptable to severe combat stress.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/184156/page/1
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2009 - 09:12am PT
Navy Seals save the day...again.

I was wondering what was taking so long for the Seals to resolve this thing. Nice job, Seals.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gB7YMEDuCwwY9ncDOtPAkEI4-H2wD97HDPE80
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