Discussion Topic |
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 17, 2007 - 06:29pm PT
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I recently re-acquired a B.A.T. hammock, which I first bought in Yosemite in 1976. It's going to go to the Yosemite Climbing Museum, assuming Ken wants it, but I'm curious as to what it's worth. It's in fairly good shape - probably used only once or twice when I bought it. I may never have used it, though I did put in some reinforcing stitching and a few patches, and in the early 1990s sold it to a friend, who never used it, and who just sold it back to me.
It's orange ripstop, with yellow straps. Laid out, it forms a rectangle, with four straps on each side. Those at the head end are adjustable. There's no label on it that I can see, so I can't say for sure if it is a B.A.T. hammock, or a copy - the sewing seems fairly well done, though.
Of course, those who have actually "slept" in one may pay to have as little to do with it as possible... But I was curious what they're worth, if anything.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2007 - 07:01pm PT
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I've slept in that POS and you wake up in the morning with no feeling in your shoulders.
I threw mine away years ago.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Oct 17, 2007 - 07:05pm PT
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A guys been trying to sell one on craigslist for a while at $250 with no takers.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Oct 17, 2007 - 09:01pm PT
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the worth may have something to do with it's scarcity, in other words, how many of them were made. it might be interesting to find out who did the actual construction as well, IMO.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Oct 17, 2007 - 09:06pm PT
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Anders the bat tent was a solid enclosed triangle. Mostly red some may have had a blue band in the middle as a reinforcement.
Slept in on once… it was a bad night
Mike
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2007 - 09:34pm PT
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The Bat Tent was sewn by Denali Expeditions of Fresno. Roger Derryberry used to sew for them. I can't wait to see it. Mike Graham is right about it being an orange triangle with blue webbing. I have one but would like another for traveling displays.
Ken
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2007 - 09:50pm PT
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Perhaps my memory has failed me, and it's something else. What could it be?
It's not a B.A.T. tent - there's no fly or cover. Simply a single-point suspension hammock. It's reasonably well made, judging from the design and sewing, which suggests it was done commercially. Given the date I got it, it was probably new in 1974 or 1975. It was more or less the same type as the other hammocks around at the time, and may have been a copy of something else.
Any thoughts? Who else made hammocks then?
If I have a chance, I'll hang it up and take a picture and post it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 17, 2007 - 09:56pm PT
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Sounds like a Forrest.
(Is it moth eaten BTW?)
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Oct 17, 2007 - 09:58pm PT
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IT could be an early Bill Forrest product. Jello may know better on that.
Rodger Derryberry was the name I was looking for, thanks Ken.
It was a very little shop in Fresno, don’t think it lasted a year. My guess is there was not much of a market for wall climbing gear back then. Batso was directly involved but B.A.T. stood for something like “Basically Absurd Technology”. I bet they didn’t make but 50 of those in total.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Oct 17, 2007 - 10:01pm PT
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50 sounds like a good number...something like that
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2007 - 10:33pm PT
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So here's some pictures of the thing. The first is stretched out on the rug. The yellow + black straps are adjustable, and so probably at the head end.
And one hanging up. (I had to tie a knot in the straps, to get it to hang.) Loki wasn't interested in curling up inside it, so I used some sleeping bags.
Ron edit: No moths were damaged in the taking of these pictures.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2007 - 10:46pm PT
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I think the Forrest hammock came out for the masses(all twenty of us in 1976 or 1977). I remember a Climbing cover of one with a purple background around that time with a Shield article. Sold me, I bought one right away and after use, modified it with a Speedy Stitcher and added double spreader bars purchased from the local hardware store.
Here I am fixing it up indoors after the first use.
And in use during my second El Cap route in 1977.
It sure was fun back then when you could dream and work on improving your equipment for the next go around. That part of climbing is lost to some extent because of all the wonderful equipment designers that abound these days. They think of things that I never did and sometimes never would.
Ken
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2007 - 10:48pm PT
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Now if you could only get your hands on a one of a kind that Bev Johnson made for Charlie Porter. It had a built in sleeping bag.
It probably is a classic museum piece if someone can find it.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2007 - 10:50pm PT
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Anders, I am pretty sure that is a BAT Hammock but not a BAT Tent. That is a predecessor to the BAT Tent and I might have one, will have to look. Very cool Anders!
Ken
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2007 - 10:51pm PT
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Werner did you ever try that one out?
Ken
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 17, 2007 - 10:55pm PT
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I used a Forrest hammock on the Diamond in July '74, so they must have come out earlier.
But this was an early model (pre-spreader bar).
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2007 - 10:56pm PT
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Yes, I remember spreader bars. The best were PVC tubing, cut to the right length, with slots in the ends. Easy to drop.
B.A.T. = Basically Absurd Technology (from Downward Bound).
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:09pm PT
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Ken
I never tried Porters custom hammock. You should email Charlie and ask him if he's still got it for your museum.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:11pm PT
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Anders, I had these nice little rubber caps that would fit over the ends and never dropped one. I also sewed an Ensolite into the bottom and a nylon cover to hold my feet in and keep my feet slipping out and to keep me from being too clumsy and dropping anything. Also had a nylon cover to keep my make-shift pillow from dropping as well. I also sewed loops above to hang water, food, shoes, and other necessities. Piton Ron, you could be right about the date as to when the Forrest's came on the market. I trust you still have your BAT Tent.
Ken
Werner, I have been trying to get a hold of him, to no avail. Have you heard from him recently?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:25pm PT
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Anders,
that is definitely a B.A.T. hammock. I have one as well.
Bruce
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:28pm PT
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Boy does that old style coated fabric stink!
Got a couple of Warren's hammers, pins, and a homemade steel figure 8 descender too.
What with my disenchantment with the AAC, it looks to be a good bet for your museum, but your display intentions and my tax profile (i.e. write-offs per given specific year) would likely be the major influencing factors.
Because I'm single and don't have my accountant try a lot of hankey-pankey the AMT dinged me for a thousand bucks last year. That thing really sucks, and could prove to be a major disincentive towards charitable donations, not just on my part but all accross the board among those who, in the past, have given most.
Goddamn strapped-for-cash Uncle Sam. I might not gripe so much if they spent it better.
(rant over)
So anyway, we'll see Ken.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2007 - 11:29pm PT
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Yes, the fabric reeks - it's quite gross. Probably carcinogenic, too.
I vaguely recall removing the label from the thing - at one time I was anti-label. Long before the No Logo bunch. But I'm not certain what the label was.
Once I demonstrated the hammock for a girlfriend's parents. We climbed together, and so one night gave them a little talk about what it involved. We hung it in a tree, and both sat in it - very cozy.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:37pm PT
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I'm just forming this mental picture of you getting into a one-man hammock with both of her parents,...
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
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Ron and Anders, I meant to mention that in my last post. The Nylon reeks to the point that I would have to have air freshener on hand to display it. Apparently, all the old Nylons have a similar problem, and it wasn't just residuals from our feet. Roger Breedlove checked into a non-stink treatment for older Nylon and made some progress. I have the information somewhere. Roger?
Ken
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:45pm PT
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Ron,
He did say both. That could mean the parents, or he and the lucky young lady.
Ken
P.S. Anders, I got your back.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2007 - 11:46pm PT
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Being stored in closets and basements for 30 years, folded on itself, in a plastic bag, probably hasn't given it much chance to outgas, either.
Ron, you are a naughty person. One man, or two persons/one couple.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:48pm PT
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You and the mom?????????????????
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2007 - 11:48pm PT
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Anders, You friggin crack me up! Hope to see you next year.
Ken
Edit: Gives the other definition of or meaning to the word "Coupling".
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2007 - 11:50pm PT
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Ron, on the other hand, has occasionally been known to outgas.
Perhaps I'll provide a demonstration of the two persons in a BAT hammock trick at the FaceLift next year - Crimpie would possibly be interested in helping. Beats being sawn in half by a would-be magician, maybe.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2007 - 11:59pm PT
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Here's a picture from Downward Bound of a BAT hammock. Warren Harding's magnum opus from 1974 or 1975. Looks much the same.
The fine print mentions that copies were being made by Denali, Forrest, and Swallow Mountain.
If I mail it to Ken and the YCA, hopefully Homeland Security won't wonder what the funny smell is. Maybe I'll have to bring it myself.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 18, 2007 - 12:28am PT
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Hey Anders,
Swallow Mountain sounds like a Warren Harding joke!
Ken
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 18, 2007 - 01:26am PT
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Actually its the nickname of a large woman named Lucy who hung out in C4 thirty years ago.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 18, 2007 - 01:57am PT
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Hey,
were he and Anders seperated at birth?
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 18, 2007 - 02:12am PT
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Thanks Werner and Anders. Be nice Ron!
Ken
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 18, 2007 - 02:15am PT
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Thanks Anders
Maybe you can help me find some information on the Sea Tomato that Charlie built for Ned Gillette's sea crossing expedition years ago?
There was an article about it in The National Geographic.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2007 - 02:25am PT
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Seeing as we're talking about hammocks...
My parents have a lovely large hammock woven from string, which they got in British Guyana in 1953. You have to suspend it between two trees, but it holds two or three people, and is exceedingly comfortable.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 18, 2007 - 02:31am PT
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Anders, For both?
Cheers, Ken
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2007 - 02:41am PT
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Comfortable for two adults, or four children, or combinations thereof. Even PTPP would likely approve of it, though it'd be a challenge to hang it on El Cap.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 18, 2007 - 03:23am PT
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OMG Ken, you knew her too?
Be nice Ken. lol
Someone should find and post the great photo of the vertical ghetto on the FA of the NA.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 18, 2007 - 03:31am PT
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Been in Slovakia for the last week and this thread is a good one to come home to. Too tired to say much, now, but will follow up manana.
BatSh#tJello
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 18, 2007 - 10:59am PT
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Here you go Ron.
Ken
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Oct 18, 2007 - 11:29am PT
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Just for comparison purposes...
This is a Forrest Hammock, with a home made G Tex fly, circa early 80's. I bought the Fly from a great guy, Dean Hannibal who used it on the FA of a route on Mt. Geike (Canadian Rockies) with G. Lowe. I think Dean had the fly made for that climb.
Note those streamlined shoulder straps, guaranteed to not be too comfortable and guaranteed to make it way too difficult to pull your sleeping bag over your shoulders.
This pic was taken on attempt at N. Face of Mt. Hooker, 1984.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Oct 18, 2007 - 11:46am PT
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I had a cagoule made by Swallow's Nest out of Seattle.
Maybe that's what was meant by Swallow Mountain?
For some reason I thought there was a connection between Harding
and Mountain Master (from Fresno.) Maybe a connection between
Denali and Mountain Master?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 18, 2007 - 11:56am PT
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Anyone have a copy of Galen's Vertical World of Yosemite? One of my favorite shots of Warren is from the South Face of Half Dome FA where his grisly mug is peering out from inside a Bat Tent porthole!
If you had the space, a truly hilarious wall climbers party game would start with the victim suspended at the end of a daisy chain. With no aiders, a stuffed sleeping bag and an ensolite pad the object would be to get set up for bed with the stop watch running for best time. Of course onlookers are free to poke and prod to induce a good spin or swing to further complicate the victim's travails and induce that wildcat in a barrel level of frenzy for the amusement of all!
At a Beanfest long ago, the reigning Beanmaster came up with this activity in the Alpine climbing category. The victim had to stand barefooted in a tub of icewater while attempting to tie several complicated knots wearing oversize expedition mitts all the while being pelted with more icewater by onlookers! Freakin' brilliant game! LOL
Zip, slide, click, click, clickety, click changed everything up there. Wall climbing would certainly be a lot less popular without Portaledges. Ahh, blessed relief from the nylon handrolling machine.
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duncan
Trad climber
London, UK
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Oct 18, 2007 - 12:05pm PT
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Half-way up The Zodiac, November 1981. Troll hammock, the type used by Tasker and Bordman on the west face of Changabang. They must have been hard bastards. The spreader bars poking out beyond the attachment point were cunningly designed to suspend you away from the wall. Didn't work of course.
Rather badly focused I'm afraid, but I probably was.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 18, 2007 - 01:25pm PT
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I bet that Troll Trough softened even them up a wee bit! LOL My first El Cap route was the nearly ledgeless Trip and boy, the hard flat ground never felt so sweet.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 18, 2007 - 02:09pm PT
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Thanks Ken, but I heard it was the reverse;
(that Frost had fishnet stockings,...)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2007 - 05:38pm PT
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Thanks, Ken. Warren looks positively satanic. Pirate-like, anyway.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 18, 2007 - 09:32pm PT
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Is that a Denali (BAT) sewn haulsack next to the Bat Tent? Could be the first commercially sewn one if so. Without the colors it is hard to tell, but it sure looks neat.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 18, 2007 - 11:33pm PT
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The key to really hard alpine-style mixed climbs in the great ranges is a modified BAT tent. Along with a truly functional hanging stove (with heat-exchanger).
A safe and comfy bivy is had by pitching camp at the top of an ice slope, hanging the tent from steep rock and cutting a 12 to 18"-wide ldege, so you're mostly supported by the ledge but the outside shoulder and hip are cradled by the tent. Breathing holes with reticulated foam (like speaker-grille) at head and peak allow cooking inside with the hanging stove, even during a full-on storm, without closing the vents.
I could go on and on, but suffice to say, the art of the bivouac is as key to success as climbing skill, or even more so, in the high peaks.
-BasicallyAbsurdJello
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 18, 2007 - 11:41pm PT
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I dunno Jeff.
Sometimes I find that a bivy can be so comfortable that it can slow you down in the morning. I got my quickest starts from my worst nights.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 18, 2007 - 11:47pm PT
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I'm talking the mountains, Ron, not rock walls in Zion or the Valley. It's not a matter of mere comfort.
See you Monday, when we can discuss this like gentlemen over a bottle of wine...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 19, 2007 - 12:20am PT
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Don't get busted driving down with that bootleg euro wine. I can't bail THAT out.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 19, 2007 - 02:43am PT
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Jello,
That is what made them so awesome. They felt so good to get in them and it was a natural alarm clock because, it felt so good to get out of them. I have the same experience with Porta-ledges nowadays. Must be getting old.
Ken
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 20, 2007 - 09:48am PT
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A couple more hammock photos. Some of you just don't know what you are missing.
Ken
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Risk
Mountain climber
Minkler, CA
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Oct 20, 2007 - 01:13pm PT
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From the 1970 Life magazine coverage of WEML
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 20, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
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That last one looks like Warren playing Mephisto and beckoning you to his dark world.
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Jan 18, 2012 - 01:30am PT
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If it is a Forrest hammock, here's the dirty paper for it. From my 1974 Forrest Mountaineering catalog. For those interested, it cost a whopping $39, plus an extra $2.95 if you wanted to buy the spreader bar. Anders was obviously too cheap. Check out the balanced hammer to keep the hammock away from the wall!
K
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Jan 18, 2012 - 02:54am PT
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I talked with Dean Caldwell a little while back and asked him if he still had his B.A.T. hammock... the list of expletives about that piece was impressive. Yep, he still has it along with bags of iron from the W.O.E.M.L.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Jan 18, 2012 - 03:10am PT
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The precursor was sewn up for Royal Robbins after a discussion we had in Camp 4 just prior to the NA wall. He made two and gave me one; which i still have
he also made two similarly constructed belay seats (for use in the era of swami belts) and gave me one that i also still have in my gear bag
i think he made a few more and sold them for a while
i also have one of the first Fish portaledges, given me to test drive and debug
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