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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 11, 2007 - 03:26pm PT
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John, sorry to miss you in Vedauwoo, this summer!
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2007 - 05:37pm PT
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Cool Jody. I'll look into it.
I've been reading Up and Down California, in 1860-1864. The journal of William H. Brewer. Brewer was a member of the California Geologic Survey, and Whitney's right hand man. Here's an excerpt I read the other night...
"Tuesday, September 9, [1862)] we continued on our way. In a few miles we passed the Castle Rocks (Devil's Castle of the map), most picturesque objects to behold. A granite ridge rises very abruptly from the valley, its crest worn into the most fantastic forms--pinnacles, minarets, battlements, domes, and peaks. Some of these rise perhaps three thousand feet above the valley, and the chain of Castle Mountains is much higher beyond. We were in sight of them a long time and each turn of the road disclosed a new view of them. In crossing a spur from this chain that runs down to the river we had the most magnificent view of Mount Shasta that we have yet had. It appeared up the valley, the foreground of mountains opening to show it, the great cone rising high, its upper six thousand feet streaked with glistening snow, its outlines sharply cut against the intensely blue sky, its sides steep beyond belief."
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 11, 2007 - 06:34pm PT
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Jody, it WILL happen.
Spencer, thanks for that comander Reid stuff, never knew or heard of him before this, glad you are there to let us know!
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2007 - 07:30pm PT
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Sorry to hear that Jody. That's how the game works. "We need it yesterday... Oh, nevermind..." Send them a digital processing fee to cover your lost time. Hundred bucks or so. heh.
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Misha
Trad climber
Woodside, CA
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Oct 11, 2007 - 09:35pm PT
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You got it easier than when I had an encounter with Nat Geo Adventure. They called me on Wednesday and their deadline was... that very Wednesday. They decided to publish me on Thursday morning. Fortunately, I shoot digital and don't have to scan anything but I still had to skip a couple of hours of work that day :)
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2007 - 09:58pm PT
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Best not to think of it personally, ie: "They decided or decided not to publish ME..." If you do that you're all set up for heartbreak.
To them, it's just an image and they aren't thinking about you. Either its a perfect fit for the story they are working on, or not. It says nothing about the quality of the image, which you, and they, know is damn good, or they never would have called you. So you want to get them to agree to a research/digital services fee up front, which may become a credit toward, or is in addition to (preferable), usage fees. That way you at least get something for your time if they don't use anything, which is often the case. I'll add that once they have made that commitment to get the images, they are more likely to actually use them.
We're drifting off topic...
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Misha
Trad climber
Woodside, CA
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Oct 11, 2007 - 10:10pm PT
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Sound advice, Jerry. Thanks!
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2007 - 02:26am PT
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And if you don't try, how will you ever know?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Oct 12, 2007 - 02:41am PT
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Lake Sabrina pic with midnight blue sky....
hint hint
see other thread...
Sincerely,
Drift Wood
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2007 - 12:35pm PT
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Looking into it Munge.
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john bald
climber
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Oct 12, 2007 - 12:47pm PT
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Jaybro.........I've been chatting w/Zander about a November trip out your way..hope to see you then. I can tell you all about the Crags. Must do my Dike Route on the E face of the Dome.
Cheers........JB
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john bald
climber
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Oct 12, 2007 - 12:48pm PT
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Has anybody finished my line on the right buttress of Becks Tower?
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2007 - 02:27pm PT
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Hey Jody, last bit on this topic,
Regarding those fees, etc, you have to try to cover the time people are willing to waste. I can't speak for the climbing rags, but most mainstream magazines pay research fees, digital service fees etc. You have to consider your cost of doing business and can't give this precious time away. So you're basically asking them not to waste your time when you ask for these fees. If you play them as a credit toward usage fees, it won't end up costing the client anything extra in the end, but you get the assurance that you won't walk away empty handed. However, you can and should get these fees in addition to usage fees. If they called you looking for images, you don't have to worry about them going on to the thousands of other photographers, because it is your photo they are looking for. I like to think that these days most editors understand the costs associated with consistently making great photographs. But you have to educate your client, have confidence, act professionally, charge rates that reflect your actual cost of doing business, and walk away from bad deals no matter how "cool" it feels to get published.
Okay, carry on.
John, Dike Route story?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Oct 12, 2007 - 03:28pm PT
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That all sounds about right to me, Jerry.
Nothing to add to this, really. It's really about being professional and that your time is valuable. Time is money, so the (correct) adage goes. And, as Jerry said, you will never know until you try. I think you are sending a couple of different messages, in making the request. First of all, as Jerry pointed out, "don't waste my time". I also think it sends a more polished/professional message to the editor, as well. It says you're used to this, you've been doing it a while, that you know what you and your time are worth (the confidence Jerry mentioned) and that you'll accept nothing less. You're a pro.
I believe Outdoor Photo Mag only gave me same day on the calendar, as Nat Geo did with Misha, too. No biggee though. Pretty standard affair with all of the periodicals I've dealt with.
I'll send you a link to a group/forum that will be very informative, in regards to the above issues, jody.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Oct 12, 2007 - 03:58pm PT
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I haven't followed up with them, as you did, Jody, so, it's hard to say. A lot of that stuff gets placed into my bulk mail filter (their original request was, for instance). I go through it frequently, but if I've been gone for a few days, etc. I know I miss stuff when trying to scan the subjects of 500+ mails. I should probably check with them.
The following week, however, a company contacted me about having a number of photos featured in their calendar for the year. So, it all works out.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Oct 12, 2007 - 05:37pm PT
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Thanks, Jody. It's sometimes hard to look at things the way Jerry pointed out above, but I try. Even if it turns out they didn't use my photo, I'm honored that it was one of their selections. They see thousands upon thousands of photos, so it's a big deal that our photos were even selected in the process. It speaks a lot about our work. Your stuff is very nice, Jody.
Negative self-talk is something I've really been working on, in general. It's something I think so many of us are not even conscious of doing most of the time, yet it pervades a lot of areas of our lives. I've really focused on changing it while on routes, for instance. My partner pointed out that when I was having a bad climbing day, or really struggling on a route, I was really pretty hard on myself about it and had lots of negative dialog. Correcting has really helped me to relax and get it back when I'm pumped or just not feeling it that day.
Anyway... I've never had the chance to climb much at Castle Crags. I've stopped a couple of times on the way too/from Shasta, etc. Nothing major though. Looks like there's TONS of potential up there, however, it also seemed like there was a lot of choss there too.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Oct 13, 2007 - 12:40am PT
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Yeah, it sucks. Don't go there.
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john bald
climber
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Oct 13, 2007 - 02:53pm PT
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Jerry, as Spencer alluded to....there is a lot of choss at the Crags, though, hidden gems are tucked away if you are willing to work for it.
I always heard of the rumors of Lowe, Harding and Bonnington having interest in this face, and thought I'd give it a go. Prefering to do as little bolting as possible, my first attempt only made it a few pitches via runout low angle rock. Stan the Man helped me push the upper route.
I believe there is another line to the left of this one, for someone with the eye for climbing at the crags.
Thanks to all for posting to great pics. You bring back a flood of good memories from a very special place.....JB
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