John Salathe - Yosemite Climber by Chris Jones 1976

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Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 19, 2007 - 12:48am PT
A classic bit of history from a Mountain 50 (1976) reprint.







LongAgo

Trad climber
Sep 19, 2007 - 03:29pm PT
Steve,

Thanks for the bit of history revisited. I for one am much fascinated by climbing characters, the souls and motives behind the routes.

My question to you and others posting articles of this kind: any concern about copyright issues? When constructing my website made up of many AAC, Ascent and other articles, I got explicit permission from publishers to use the material non-commercially. Maybe I didn't need to worry about it, but if we supertopo posters make these kind of posts from time to time (I'd like to see more), should the issue be visited? Or maybe it is on some thread already?

Thanks again,


Tom Higgins
LongAgo
jstan

climber
Sep 19, 2007 - 03:35pm PT
I am guessing that is a steel US Army biner. Can't carry a whole junk sling of those!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2007 - 09:12pm PT
Tom - I believe the copyright issues are tied to profit and the internet would qualify as personal use. A website that could be construed as advertising or a revenue source might be a different story. I post photos and prose with all due respect and would immediately delete anything without question. I also view posting as free exposure and promotion for the publication which can only enhance sales and demand especially for out of print titles. Would you be offended by my posting your fine written work, for instance? I guess that would be the proprietary crux of the argument.

I have personally published very little but always hope for a broad exposure. The ST is a fantastic forum! The offset to the proprietary stance is the glaring need for accessible and living history in an increasingly technological and less bookish time.

Jstan - Salathe made his own biners too if memory serves and Ken posts.......
steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Sep 19, 2007 - 10:08pm PT
As another benefit of postings like this one, many younger climbers get to see and read some history of the sport and it might give them a chance to see where it all came from.

Alternatively, this stuff just sits on a shelf somewhere pickin' up dust and that's about it. I'd guess libraries don't stock these back issues, and they're probably not available widely on microfilm or whatever they're using to archive these days. Good on ya, Steve!
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 19, 2007 - 10:16pm PT
Mountain went out of business in about 1992, sadly. Into receivership if not bankruptcy, I believe. It may be very difficult to determine who now owns copyright to the magazine itself. It gets more complicated in that the articles were written by individual authors, and contain a variety of photos. Determining what rights they sold to Mountain, at this point, might be impossible. Certainly a right to publish, once, but possibly not more.

I'm not a copyright lawyer, so can't comment on whether publication in an environment such as SuperTopo would be a copyright violation, and if so what the consequences might be.

I think these articles, whether in threads of their own or inserted into apropos threads, add a lot to SuperTopo. So I agree with Steve - put them in, give due credit, and be prepared to remove them if there are any concerns.
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Sep 21, 2007 - 04:00pm PT
This one is for Jstan. Salathe piton and two of his carabiners. The smaller one is a Bedayn made carabiner and the larger a Salathe made carabiner.



Ken
Gene

climber
Sep 21, 2007 - 04:09pm PT
MH,

My understanding, which ain't worth nothing, is that an author typically licenses the article to a magazine. The copyright remains with the author for 50 to 70 years after the author's death.

Again, not knowing nothing, I believe that economic gain is one of several factors in determining if use of copyrighted material is "fair use" versus infrigment.

I love these old articles and I hope that they fall under fair use.

GM
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2007 - 08:15pm PT
Thanks for posting the biners Ken. When I was down several months ago, Ken showed me some unusual metal aider steps that Salathe had designed. Turns out that the clever smith had designed the first adjustable aider by making an end radiused and drilled step that could be repositioned to rest against knot pairs of varying heights on the suspension rope. The 3/8" rope used to fashion the aider would just slip into and out of a harrow break in the flat aluminum strap radius if the lay of the rope was cleverly flattened out.
Three cheers for the original American gear freak!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2008 - 11:37am PT
Vay kan't ve just bump?
Dr. Rock

Ice climber
Sep 20, 2008 - 03:05pm PT
Does anybody know this Chris Jones guy?

I might have gone to high school with that freak.
He had a couple of fingers that got caught in a fan belt as a kid, so he had a couple of stubs that would have made him a cut above when it comes to climbing cracks.

Nice article.
Copywrights?

By the time someone complains and the stuff is pulled, it's too late.

Web crawlers and archivers and internet lurkers snatch that stuff up like crazy.
From then on, it's a Geometrical Progression.
Kind of like a pyramid scam.


Like throwing a steak to a hungry linebacker.
Like throwing a Wallburger to a storm trapped El Cap type of guy.

How many people get trapped this fall on the wall?

I am guessing three partys during the week of Nov. 9th til the 14 th.
The valley will get three inches of snow, what say?
Raydog

Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
Sep 20, 2008 - 03:14pm PT
RE:
"Vay kan't ve just bump? "

ya dats vut I say too...
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Sep 20, 2008 - 05:18pm PT
Dr. Rock. I saw Chris less than two months ago and he still had all his fingers.

Ken
Dr. Rock

Ice climber
Sep 20, 2008 - 05:27pm PT
Dang.
Wrong Chris Jones.

Heck, how many Chris Jones' can there be?
I mean we only had two in my High School, and I emphasize the word High, in our morning advisory class.

And a Chris Jensen
And a Gary Christensen..

Funny thing, we would go "ChrisJensen" from the back row, and both Gary Christensen And Chris Jensen would turn around.
Great joke, used it all year, they never caught on, it was like Pavlov's Dog in reverse.


Hey ChrisJensen!

What?
What?


The trick was to insert just the right amount of space in between Chris and Jensen, so you could sting them both.

If you said Chris....Jensen.

Then only Chris Jensen would turn around.

If you said Chris Jensen, only Gary Christensen would turn around.

But if you said Chris...Jensen, then they both would turn around, and they sat side by side, cheap thrills, but anything is better than American History 101.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
Salathé Bump...
Blakey

Trad climber
Newcastle UK
Aug 30, 2012 - 11:45am PT
I've got most of the Mountain Magazines that Steve scans from up in my loft, gathering dust!

I can't believe that either Ken Wilson, the origional editor, two subsequent editors and contributors aren't aware of (and flattered by) Steve's prolific posting of these articles.

From what Steve has posted I'm guessing none have been churlish enough to ask for an article to be taken down?

We are all the better off for them being online, it's important historical stuff that would otherwise be lost.

Steve
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2012 - 05:40pm PT
No one has asked me to remove anything that I have posted except Richard Jensen and his Riverside Quarry guide.

I think that most folks see the value in making these historical accounts accessible and the reach of the ST is very broad.

Most of the good climbing history books about American climbing are out of print and the ST is where this material can be found.

History is the gift that keeps on giving. I simply recognize the consequential articles and take the time to pass them along.

pk_davidson

Trad climber
Albuquerque, NM
Feb 20, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Vay kan't ve just bump?

Yah, a bump for one of the original hardmen.
Cam Burns

Social climber
CO
Feb 21, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
I've got most of the Mountain Magazines that Steve scans from up in my loft, gathering dust!

I can't believe that either Ken Wilson, the origional editor, two subsequent editors and contributors aren't aware of (and flattered by) Steve's prolific posting of these articles.

From what Steve has posted I'm guessing none have been churlish enough to ask for an article to be taken down?

We are all the better off for them being online, it's important historical stuff that would otherwise be lost.

Steve

Blakey, I worked for Mountain magazine (I even have a business card they printed up for me back in 1991), and see Supertopo very irregularly. But I love what's going on with all these reprinted pieces. I'm pretty sure Ken and Bernard would like it, too. But they're on to other lives, other careers.

Best,
Cam
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