Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
reddirt
climber
subarwu
|
|
|
Sep 22, 2008 - 09:15am PT
|
given the state of the economy, I'm gonna make an extra effort to do ALL my tipping in cash... it's up to the recipient if they want to report it all or just in part to the feds... & contribute to the crazy wall street corporate bail-out.
|
|
Ola Girl
Trad climber
Thousand Oaks, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2008 - 11:44pm PT
|
"I'll make you the best Big Wall Coffee you've ever tasted."
I dunno, man...Scott's coffee is damn good!
See, I have a smile on my face. Mmmm...tasty!
|
|
Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:29am PT
|
You folks drink coffee up there?
I would think you would want something a little easier on the lower GI?
Hey, those Special Forces have a pill that makes em hold it for a week.
Possible uses on the wall?
Or just use the Locker thing?
Not the crab, that would probably hurt.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:33am PT
|
"given the state of the economy, I'm gonna make an extra effort to do ALL my tipping in cash... it's up to the recipient if they want to report it all or just in part to the feds... & contribute to the crazy wall street corporate bail-out."
I wouldn't stress too much about that, most guides don't make enough for Uncle Sam to get a full pound of flesh from them anyway, and any money is better than no money.
As for coffee. personally it always seems like a lot of time and trouble. I have one word for folks with a coffee-caffeine addiction.
Dark Chocolate covered Expresso Beans.
Ok, that was a lot of words
Peace
Karl
|
|
Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:37am PT
|
Did your socks stick to that ledge like a fruit roll up?
You look pretty happy to me. :-)
Congratulations on having an experience that surpassed your desires and expectations!
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2008 - 12:42am PT
|
Thanks for the follow up Ola G!
|
|
Ola Girl
Trad climber
Thousand Oaks, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2008 - 09:10am PT
|
We brought a Jet Boil - very lightweight, doesn't take up much space, boils water in a snap - super simple! Also useful for Mountain House meals - Meat with Potatoes and Onions is my favorite!
And yes, my socks stuck to that ledge - EW! I'm sure there were yellow crystals all over the bottom of them, but I didn't look to confirm. Ignorance is bliss...
|
|
Mtnfreak
Mountain climber
Epicenter of North California
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2008 - 12:05pm PT
|
I heard an older guide say it best once...
"They trust us as much as their doctor.
They pay us less than their plumber.
At least they could tip us like their waiter."
I think a 20-10% of the rate is reasonable - which is how I tip my waiters. I'm paid a bit better than American guides in the past, but its still a struggle. I am slowly making it an affordable career, but I'm not going to get rich off of it.
Chris
|
|
Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2008 - 01:02pm PT
|
LEB,
Some guide services make it clear that tips are dandy, and that it is your choice.
"Guides are compensated for their time but happily accept gratuities for exceptional service." --Estes Park Mtn. Shop
Now, if the guide is working independently and names their own price I think a tip is not necessary.
That is, I expect them to name the price they want to work for.
 Bill
Nefarius edit
Hmmmm... didn't think of it THAT way. If I ever hire a guide
who is working independently I will not stiff'em on the tip
like that. Even tho they name their price it's still good
form to express appreciation for excellent service in $$$.
My bad, but not again. Thanks!
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2008 - 01:04pm PT
|
Ever see what a guide makes, Lois?
Tipping IS built into the system.
like being a waiter, with less money on the table.
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2008 - 01:22pm PT
|
I've never had the need for a guide. I've guided and been tipped, guided and not been tipped. My view of tipping is the same across the board; the idea of tips being obligatory is total BS. Tips are given to show appreciation for outstanding, or above-and-beyond service. I don't feel the need to add 15% to everything, just because someone did their job. If the service was exceptional, sure. I'll probably give you more than 15%. If the service was bad, I'll surely give you nothing or something very small so that you know I noticed and didn't simply forget to tip. If you need to make more money, you should probably find a job that pays more.
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
Kidland, 24x7, but sometimes Pasadena, CA
|
|
I'm way late to the party, Ola Girl, but congrats.... I can tell you had a great time just from the photos. Good on ya!
Fletch
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
"What I am wondering is why we even tip in the first place - aside from restaurants wherein it is built into the system. If I hire you to do something and you quote me a price to do it, why am I tipping on top of that. "
Think about it as "performance based incentives" Too bad wall streets execs aren't as dependent on good service.
Still, I never give it a second thought (although it's been a blessing at times)
Tipping can be a hassle, cause you never know what's expected of you and what the motives behind your good service is (kinda like being a hot woman, when will the ulterior motive show itself?)
Both in restaurants and guide services, the owners are counting on you to make up for them wishing to pay less in labor. In europe, it's figured into the bill for restaurants but you still pay for it.
Peace
karl
|
|
jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
|
|
Karl is right.
The problem with tipping as I see it is that too many times it becomes an excuss for crappy pay. In a perfect world a guide (waiter, etc) would be compensated fairly for their service and the customer should be left free to not tip for crappy service or give a grand tip for extraordinary treatment. I don't like leaving a bad tip in a resturant because I know much of my server's income is based on it but what do you do when you get really lousy service?
The catch 22 about the European tipping system is that many times you're not given any service at all. The wait staff know the tip is compulsory they don't have to work for it. In those situations a good wait staff can really make or break a restaurants reputation. Think of it. People doing a good job because of integrity and not because of greed.
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
Say, you might hire Locker to guide you. He should be free for a bit. His two regular customers are all stove up. He broke one's leg and the other one is wearing braces on his braces.
LOL!
Sorry Lock. Couldn't resist the temptation.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
One thing, Guides get a better daily rate than waiters, who are actually assessed taxes based on the assumption that they get about 8% of their food sales in tips (after they tip out buspersons and bartenders and such)
So, if you only tip a waiter 10%, it's already pretty minimal and if you stiff them, it actually costs them money. That's something to keep in mind.
Tipping guides can be considered optional but tipping waiters in the United States is part of the deal. Don't stiff a waiter that you wouldn't be happy taking money right out of their pocket against their will.
peace
Karl
|
|
jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
|
|
Unfortunately I've had those waiters. Yeah, the ones I felt like should be paying me. And whats with a waiter taking your order and someone else brining it out. Places like Outback do that. I feel really put out when that happens. The waiter/tress takes your order then some guy, who's name you don't even know, comes out and wants to know who ordered what.
Back to climbing - I did a climb where I was required by law to hire porters. I went into town and found a guy who's name I was given and he picked out 3 other guys. They had a great time. I carried all my own stuff so they didn't work to hard. I shared the extra food I brought with them and in the end I gave them a good deal of my gear. I hated the thought of hiring porters and didn't have any extra money for tipping but after I saw what they have to put up with and how little they got paid I gave them 50 bucks each. They thought I was rich because I owned two used cars and made 35K a year.
|
|
Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
|
|
Hank,
I am NOT guiding you up any more ice routes .......
LOL
Jack
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
"And whats with a waiter taking your order and someone else brining it out. Places like Outback do that. I feel really put out when that happens. "
I think it's a system designed to keep your waiter out on the floor taking care of things and not waiting in the back to grab your food (or not doing that and it gets cold)
but heh, we shouldn't turn this into a restaurant thread. Other guides might not like it to become so associated.
Already seems like that a bit to me, "Hello, I'll be your guide, would you like some struggle and pain with your fun in the sun. We have a special here on crack!"
Peace
Karl
|
|
Witch Hunter
Social climber
Templeton, CA
|
|
I worked as a river guide for many years and tipping was always an issue. It would kill me when you take a group of people on a hair raising class V run and all you would get was a hand shake at the end, yet you take a couple of moose hunters out for a few days on a flat water float, you average about $200 a day, more if they bag a good one. When it came down to it, guys that buy their gear from Cabela's always tip better than anyone that buys their gear from Patagonia, plus they always have booze and never bitch about boating while under the influence.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!