B Y conditions?

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Messages 1 - 48 of total 48 in this topic
bachar

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 16, 2007 - 01:18am PT
I want to do this thing (again) but it got a lot harder (weird huh?). Anyway, just wanted to see if anybody's been "up there" lately .... don't want to do one of these!


Whew!

Thanks for any beta ahead of time - jb
marty(r)

climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
Aug 16, 2007 - 01:31am PT
Johnny Rock rides again! You're obligated to provide a detail-rich report.


As for conditions, I have no clue. Best of luck on/in the high lonesome.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 16, 2007 - 01:31am PT
Too funny asking for beta on your own route!

Course, I've brough topos on climbs I've done 5 times.

Bolts were replaced, that's good news just in case.

Has it really got harder (knobs breaking) or is that kind of climbing just something you have to get used to again before it feels ok?

It would be fun to take pictures of you return flight..I mean ascent!

Glad it hasn't taken you very long to get way better than us all again so soon after your accident.

Peace

Karl
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Aug 16, 2007 - 02:20am PT
THAT IS THE SH#TNIZZLE RIGHT THERE!!!

as Blinny my post. WHOA MAN!


that's a rad shot. Who are the climbers? And is that angle correct?

gnar
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 16, 2007 - 03:10am PT
Rob,

For the caption and other photos, see the previous B Y thread from May:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=375380

"Thierry Renault (sp?) falling on the 2nd pitch. He ends up below the belayer (Wolfgang Gullich). They went home after that."
Wild Bill

climber
Ca
Aug 16, 2007 - 03:10am PT
Goddam nOObs!

B- Y is STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP - that's all you need to know.

Bring a full rack, with 2 number 4 friends for the wide section.

Good luck noob.




































































God that was fun! Sorry JB
Wild Bill

climber
Ca
Aug 16, 2007 - 03:11am PT
PS - was in the meadows this past weekend, and it was sunny.

Hope that helps.
bachar

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2007 - 03:51am PT
Thierray (sp?) Renault falling, Wolfgang Gulich belaying. TR ends up about 8-10 feet below WG and rebounds up into him. Wolfgang gets smashed against the rock pretty hard. They bail.

I don't think Wolfgang ever went back. I think Thierray (sp?)) went back and did it later?

Gimme some beta please... this thing is horrendous,

heh heh, jb
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 16, 2007 - 04:04am PT
Yeah, you know what they say..."If you have to ask..."

I mean, it's a sport climb for christ'ssake, clippity do da, where's the beta in "pinch that knob, then the next one, then the next one, repeat a hundred times and don't let go except to clip the bolt'?

but I guess when you're trying to make the move up from bouldering (even if it's highball) then anything with a rope seems daunting.



Still, I guess it's fairly bold for a sport route (cause the guys who put it up were seriously distrubed or lazy) so don't try to cozy up to the big boys by gettin in too deep.


Or what the heck, go for it. It's only air anyway, there's nothing safer than falling.




Hitting, on the other hand, is kind of hit or miss.







;-|

K
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 16, 2007 - 04:11am PT
But since we're on the subject

Why do they call it "Bachar Urine" anyway. Did he piss himself up there?











(sorry Dave)

Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 16, 2007 - 04:14am PT
Don't pay any attention to those posts above, written in my name by some imposter.

Now John, I'm glad you asked about that route. I'm certain that it would be suicide to attempt such a line in anything less than a premier climbing shoe like ACOPA brands shoes.

Yes, make sure they are ACOPAs or Yu'll die fur Sure.

ACOPA, so you'll edge instead of ledge...
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Aug 16, 2007 - 10:13am PT
Warm up on this....Black Out 5.10+ (F. A. Kurt Smith on lead;..J. Bachar taking photos.....the rest of us just biting our nails....Kurt's The Man!)

andanother

climber
Aug 16, 2007 - 10:16am PT
the Tuolumne SAR guys retro-bolted it so they could run laps on it for training. It's way safer now. No need to worry.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2007 - 11:03am PT
yeah man, heard the FA guys were way cheap, didnt want to spend money on equipping that sport route properly ya dig? contact them and maybe they'll agree to a few additional bolts.








too funny, sorry i couldnt resist.


but dont feel bad. i was approaching one of the most popular cliffs in a popular area with the guidebook author once and we frickin got lost on the 5 minute approach.

good luck to you jb.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 16, 2007 - 11:23am PT
We just threw a TR on Blackout, man that rig is serious!

Cutter beauty though...

Those are some strange lo0oking bolts up there. What they heck are they (round eye bolts)?







PS. As far as knowing if the route has gotten harder, I think there's really only one person who could tell us that...
bachar

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2007 - 03:10pm PT
k-man, Those are Taper eye bolts - $8 each, 5,000+ lbs. outward pull, 8,000 lbs. shear. They should be quite bomber still.

I'll be top roping Blackout, thank you.

I know B Y didn't get harder - I got older and weaker....

I think I can lead the first two pitches - it's that third pitch I'm worried about - 5.10c run out friction and dime edging. Whew!
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Aug 16, 2007 - 03:17pm PT
I'd venture to say John, yer well on the recovery road! I'd like to come on up and watch this....uh this has nothing to do with the naked climbing thread you had up a few weeks ago???? Here's some beta for you.... try not to look too far left or right...you know what I'm talking about! Take care bro!
Peace
Ron
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 16, 2007 - 04:01pm PT
Those are Taper eye bolts ... they should be quite bomber still.

They were totally tight, as if they were put in a week ago. Still, I'll never clip those [two] beauties, though I wish I could.


The book says .12a if you come in from the side, and that Cos did the first all-free (love that new FA info!). When I was there I couldn't /see/ where you'd climb in from the left...12a sure gets hard out there!
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Aug 16, 2007 - 04:07pm PT
John...I got older and weaker decades ago!.......(join the crowd....it's fun to be old and weak.....) You always have an excuse, and you get to hop on all the cool moderate climbs that are fun as hell......
bachar

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2007 - 04:24pm PT
k-man,
The 12a start is actually the first pitch of "Cheatstone" (Coz did it without the cheatstone - pretty tough bouldering at the start!). Blackout is really only that one pitch off the ledge. I think I did a weird first pitch start with one bolt that come in from the ground on the far right side and makes its way up and left towards Blackout...

My memory is fried too!
pFranzen

Boulder climber
Portland, OR
Aug 16, 2007 - 07:14pm PT
"Hitting, on the other hand, is kind of hit or miss."

I'd say it's more 'hit' than 'miss', but that's just my experience...
426

Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
Aug 16, 2007 - 07:47pm PT
A few people I've talked to about Medlicott have said quite a number routes have gotten harder over there due to broken holds...


Someone fill in the "euro whipper" on tied off knobs story(s) here...
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 16, 2007 - 08:10pm PT
You wanna talk broken knobs...I've got one word for you:

Pinnacles.


Where 5.9s turn to 5.12s.

GDavis

Trad climber
SoCal
Aug 16, 2007 - 08:25pm PT
B Y too hard and scary, climb the route off to the right.
malabarista

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Aug 17, 2007 - 09:29pm PT
If you do climb it again John, please write a TR. It would be really cool too hear your impressions.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 18, 2007 - 12:20am PT
I hope you all won't be too annoyed that I am mildly gratified to hear that what I was talking about decades ago seems to be coming to pass.

The erosion issues that have long been a concern to desert climbers are now being experienced on harder rock.

We really need to take the long view when establishing routes. Putting all the emphasis on the "performance" of the FA has untoward effects down the road.

Not picking a fight (or duel LOL). Just trying to make observations that may be useful when considering resource management.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 18, 2007 - 02:48pm PT
Piton Ron, do you have any ideas? How would you engineer routes
so the rock doesn't break?
James

climber
A tent in the redwoods
Aug 18, 2007 - 03:15pm PT
Kelly,
Don't you sport climb?
Sika holds the world together.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 18, 2007 - 03:37pm PT
Some amusing stuff here, especially Karl's. You'd think the OP was some sort of troll or something...

Ron has an interesting point. In geological terms, everything we climb on is temporary. In even a few million years, nothing we currently climb on will be recognizable, and many of the things we climb on change on a much shorter time scale. A few change on a human time scale, whether due to natural causes (erosion, rockfall, earthquake) or human effects (pitons, "cleaning", etc). It was more obvious when pitons were widely used, and is more obvious on softer rocks. But most who have been climbing for even a decade have seen, or at least know of, significant change - look at the Half Dome Northwest Face TR, with large flakes falling off since the 1970s. Most such changes aren't attributable to human causes - but humans can speed them up.

Human impacts are now often more diffuse - breaking off of knobs and flakes, accumulation of chalk and rubber, polishing (especially from toproping), and of course the broader environmental impacts - waste, trails, increased numbers. I suspect they're not a real concern on the B-Y, unless people are toproping the crap out of it, or practicing hooking, and causing incidental damage.

I climbed in Britain in the mid 1970s. At that time, many moderate routes in north Wales had been polished and eroded - by nailed boots, in use since the late 19th century. Use of nailed boots stopped in the 1960s, but the damage, although often superficial, is very visible. Use of modern boots and now shoes may have helped, but increased numbers may cancel it out.

Climate change may be another biggie in terms of affecting routes and areas, not to mention access and a whole bunch of bigger issues. Double the rainfall, or intensity of rainfall, and you magnify the erosive effects.
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
Otto, NC
Aug 18, 2007 - 07:59pm PT
This gives me an idea...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=436049
jerr

climber
Aug 19, 2007 - 10:32am PT
I think that would be awesome if you did it again.
I was just out there staring at it really tired from climbing Temple.
It is such an amazing line.
I still really want to climb it as well . I think i need a few days/weeks knob climbing or else .... haha
Send it
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 20, 2007 - 06:43pm PT
I wonder how many FA parties repeat their routes?

Which ones and why?

Mark my words, one ethics controversy of the future will be whether to retexturize crux holds. More attachments for the Bosh.

Peace

Karl
Anastasia

Trad climber
California
Aug 20, 2007 - 06:55pm PT
B Y conditions? Now what are you up to?
Honey, you know I don't want to belay you on that monster "but you better bring me along to watch". Plus, I want to have the full use of the good camera too.
Deal? ;)
AF
P.S.
Now don't be planning to have my arm working by next month even if you do drag me through all the exercises yourself.
Yet in a year...
Wait a minute... Uh Bachar? "What are you thinking?"

Is this to keep me distracted from getting a dog?
G_Gnome

Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
Aug 20, 2007 - 07:13pm PT
Don't worry Ana, I will belay John on the thing.
Colt

climber
Midpines
Aug 20, 2007 - 07:31pm PT
Karl,

Your words are noted. In fact I remeber hearing about some problems in Fontainebleau were "reestablished" with carefully applied concrete to restore the original texture. This was several years ago...and I don't really have any other details. But it gives way to your proposal that it will be a common practice for crag stuards.

I'll go a step further to say that the group of which you speak will be some strange hybrid between a climbing renegade and a museum curator. They will be both loved and hated amonst the climbing community.

On that note, it is a hard thing to own the fact that climbing, at least in the way that it is currently pursued, is not sustainable.
G_Gnome

Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
Aug 20, 2007 - 07:57pm PT
While the B&Y doesn't seem to be in much danger of losing it's knobs, there are many other routes at Tuolumne that are either much harder now than their original rating or they are impossible. Some domes seem to have knobs that are quickly pulled out/off (Canopy World, Central Cottage) while others like East Cottage and Medlicott seem to have knobs that will last forever. Thin edge face routes seem to have similiar issues. Drew and I were discussing whether Mystery Achievement on Hammer will ever go again. How many ascents has it had?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 21, 2007 - 10:02am PT
They actually were arguing about whether BY was a sport climb here!

http://tinyurl.com/3bbgyc

Peace

Karl
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Aug 21, 2007 - 12:46pm PT
Isn't B-Y on the low angle slab on the dome near just left of the center of this picture? Ha ha. From Tenaya Peak last Tuesday afternoon.


Enroute to Dozier Dome...last Thursday...


Dry as a BONE in Tuolumne last week. Seems like its coolin' off a tad too.

Cheers!

-Brian in SLC
G_Gnome

Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
Aug 21, 2007 - 02:54pm PT
John, if you are going to go to all that trouble, you should probably just climb Peace. Ron will love you for it! I know you guys are such buddies now that Lonnie hangs with you.
Dakman

Trad climber
Denver, CO
Aug 21, 2007 - 03:25pm PT
JB,

And which model of your Acopa shoes will you use for the send this time?
aldude

climber
Monument Manor
Aug 21, 2007 - 05:00pm PT
This model perhaps ?

[url=http://imageshack.us]{{img}}h~~p://img250.imageshack.us/img250/2306/dscf0779cd2qa5.jpg[/img][/url]
Anastasia

Trad climber
California
Aug 21, 2007 - 10:28pm PT
John is wearing sunglasses.

No cheat stick though...
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 21, 2007 - 10:31pm PT
Cheat rocket or grappling hook, more like!
Anastasia

Trad climber
California
Aug 21, 2007 - 10:38pm PT
He is looking mighty fine!
G_Gnome

Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
Aug 22, 2007 - 12:10pm PT
Hey Aldude, can you tilt that photo a little more? We all know that East Cottage is NOT vertical. Have you tried the knob routes on Central Cottage yet, they are wicked fun.
aldude

climber
Monument Manor
Aug 22, 2007 - 01:19pm PT
Me? Tilt? Absurd!! .......

Was on the FA of Dead Ranger,Sex on the Flag,Driller Elite and Rugburn. Haven't done Polaris or Warm Fuzzies yet. Good place on a hot day.
James

climber
A tent in the redwoods
Aug 22, 2007 - 01:33pm PT
Polaris sucks
G_Gnome

Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
Aug 22, 2007 - 02:28pm PT
Hmmmm, maybe I should look at the FA list for new routes more often. Anyway, excellent job Al. I have only done the 2 11d's on Central Cottage and they are great. I did break the upper crux knob off on the left one though!

We did the 12a on the Peanut Gallery and I was thinking of taking the time to put anchors and maybe hangers on the other 3 routes there next year. I did the other 12 with Alan Nelson many years ago and would like to try it again. Then there are the 2 11d's to try too. I really like the rock there. Or would this re-awaken some old bolt war dealio?
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