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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 1, 2007 - 09:40pm PT
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The title says it all. His first post was to the "First Ascent of the Needle's Eye" thread. He also has an excellent website, with a great deal about the history of bouldering, at www.johngill.net.
Glad that he's visited us here in SuperTopia, and hope that he visits often.
Anders
ps Please let me know if you'd like this removed - it's something of a ST tradition to say hello to new people.
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goatboy smellz
climber
colorado
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Yes!!! A heartfelt welcome to John.
Eric
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Mighty, I say Whoa! The heavy hitters are here. Welcome John.
Ken
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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John Gill,
Most excellent!
We're not worthy, but then who is...
Grab a chair & tell us a story!
Cheers,
Roy
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Does he know about the Boogaloo?
He could answer some questions.
Like;
Did that route on VD boulder, seen in M 'o' rock, go, bitd?
What about the original ground leval on the "Gill boulder"? - is standing on a trash can at the start cheating, in current conditions?
why as a kinda smart guy, am I so bad @ math?
I have a jeopardy-full, of questions.
Big welcome, in any case. From a peon, like myself.
as an over 50 guy, I am working on regaining, from advice on his site, my one arm pull up.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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...I hadn't read the Needles thread, and thanks to MH for this one, which pointed me in it's direction. Great stuff!
Welcome John!
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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hey John, nice to see your post - I sold you some shoes at Neptune's about 11/12 years ago...cheers,
Ray
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WBraun
climber
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Where? I did knott see which avatar is John Gill?
All glories to you John.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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without John Gill (and his biographer Pat Ament)I think a lot of us in San Diego would have never known that "bouldering" was something real...thanks guys!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2007 - 10:34pm PT
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Werner, John's nom de plume is "jgill". It may have been his first ST post, the 47th on the Needles thread.
I like the idea of welcoming new folks, although understanding that some may prefer peace and quiet.
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WBraun
climber
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Yes thanks Anders
But earlier I searched the whole thread several times and did not see it.
I'm so sorry I'm blind as bat.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Gill on the Jenny Lake boulders in the mid-sixties:
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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John Gill on The Thimble
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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John Gill doing something, uh, way hard...
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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perfect form, a Gill trademark
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Wilkommen!
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wiclimber
Trad climber
devil's lake, wi
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How cow Raydog, that pic actually does show him levitating.
Welcome John!
(this is way better than all those sushi threads)
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Welcome to ST, John.
Best regards, Roger
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artmusicsouth
climber
VA
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Welcome to the Master!
I was first introduced to Gill as this anomaly that happened to do some climbing in Alabama for a brief time. There was a problem at the Boulder Field sin B'ham (now Moss Rock preserve) with two names, Vast Understatment or the Gill Problem. It really is pretty easy roof with a big jug on it but to my noobie eyes it was a prize. There was also talk of many problems put up by the master all along Shades Crest Rd.
Master Gill, if you are reading this I would love to see some photos from that time if you have them.
All the best,
Mark
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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I second the Motion on Alabama photos. Did you ever make it up to the Citadel (near little river canyon), Mr. Gill?
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Bienvenido John!
See you at the crags?
Cheers, John Bachar
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Some comments in support of the "different planet" observation by Dingus.
Gill did his thing because he loved to do it. During his prime, he had no competition, no one really pushing him, and virtually no recognition for his achievements, at least partially because there were very few people who were capable of even understanding what Gill was doing, much less repeating it.
Those were different days. I think the analogy now would be to find someone in a remote area outside today's media circus, who, on their own and with no real connection to the outside world of climbing, was bouldering four grades harder than the current standard and climbing two grades harder.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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John...Bob D here...welcome...you'll like here.
It kinda hard to understand just what John did when it came to climbing.
Using another sport as a reference...My thoughts...everyone else was running a 4:20 mile...John ran a 3:59 mile.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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The thimble in '63(?) ... with the shoes of the day ... solo ...over cars/ gaurdrails!
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jstan
climber
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John:
Welcome.
This place breaks out in a catfight on occasion, but ultimately, that is good. It shows we can survive even this.
Then there are the many times when people say the equivalent of, “You know, I had not thought of it that way. You could be right.”
Absolutely pure gold.
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jgill
climber
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Thank you very much for your warm greetings, fellow climbers. Makes an ol' codger feel real good! I'm particularly happy to see my 1960s bouldering companions, rgold and Oli, repesented here – outstanding climbers who, believe me, were VERY strong performers on the small rocks. And Bob d., John B., and John S., thanks for your welcome to the site. And, to the rest of you, my warmest regards. I'll try to contribute tidbits of the history I observed from time to time, at least what I can remember - before it all slips away!
For those of you into history of the sport of rock climbing, I recently talked with Oliver Perry-Smith's youngest son, Crosby, and learned a little about his father's life after Elbsandstein. I.e., after 1913. Plus a few more photos from that early era. You can read about this great pioneer American rock climber at: "http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/HistoricalClimbingImages1.html"
Thanks again!
John
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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John, I saw your post on the other thread, and being pretty new here myself, never realized that this is your 1st time to the site.
Welcome aboard.
You stand out among giants in the arena of rock climbing and have motivated me since the 60's. Thanks.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Hi John,
Your website is becoming THE definitive repository for the worldwide history of bouldering. When is the book coming out?
Curt
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prunes
climber
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Did you really chip the Flatiron at Devils Lake? who cares! Your routes at the lake are amazing for there time. The DLFA Salutes You!
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Welcome, John.
Is there a chance that you have the good version of your guide
to the Jenny Lake boulders?
I was there once with Sherman who had a copy.
We were successful on the Badille-like North Face of Falling Ant
Slab, and even fired off the East Face of Mount Fonda.
Most of us have never seen that classic guide.
Cheers
Steve m
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G_Gnome
Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
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I have one of those that I got from the ranger station in about 1985. I was so happy that I could actually do a few Jenny Lake problems.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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The one with lines like (paraphrased, of course)
These are big boulders...big enough to make their own weather
and
many an ant has lost his dignity, if not his life, tumbling
down the Badille-like North Face of Falling Ant Slab
If so, how about posting some tidbits?
You're taking binoculars to the Meadows, right?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Nice to see you here, John.
Of course, this site may not offer the intellectual exhilaration of moderating such rc.com history threads as, "lynn hill hill topless photo what magazine."
(And nice job on the perry-smith interview-- the 10th really had a collection of interesting folks.)
Cheers
Kerwin
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jstan
climber
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Even sixty years down the road I keep running into people who were in the 10th or whose forebearers were in that Division during the War. The most recent was just last month. We need to search for the roll-call list for that group.
I read through the Perry Smith piece right away. A superb piece of work! It was like a window. A freshly cleaned and polished window.
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jgill
climber
Colorado
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Scuffy b : I wish I did have a copy of that guide. I only put together the original, in a cardboard cover. Chouinard did the part about "these are big boulders . . ." We gave it to the climbing rangers at Jenny Lake, and they secreted it somewhere. In the 1980s, I think, they ran off some zerox copies. I have no idea where the original now resides. Wish I did.
Dingus : I discovered Elephant Rocks about 1965, when I was teaching at Murray State. So, those photos on my site are from that era. I found no evidence of any kind of climbing having been done there - which, of course, doesn't mean there hadn't been any. I think I made a couple of visits.
Jaybro : Don't know which VD boulder you mean. And does the "gill boulder" mean Red Cross Rock at JL? If so, no TC allowed! As to your math abilities, who knows. Lots of brilliant people, even geniuses, are not very good at math. A little like a musical talent.
Artmusicsouth & 426 : Most of the photos taken in Alabama (1962-1966) are on my site. Go to Reflections & Commentary.
Prunes : Yes, I took the sharp, pointed tip off a fingerhold after cutting my finger on it. Bad form - even back in 1958 - and I still regret doing it!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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John, by VD boulder, I meant that huge (~1 pitch) boulder in the main part of Vedauwoo. One of the chapters in Master of Rock starts with a a photo of you crimping on the initial holds, it's kind of a step above exposure, not hard to get on but hard to move off of. I've grasped the holds ...
The"Gill problem" is, I think, also a chapter starter in that book. It's right off the lower parking lot in main Vedauwoo, photo of you doing kind of a lieback while wearing a headband. I didn't try it till about '78 and the ground had eroded away beneath it. We attempted with a garbage can as cheater stone, as soon as the climber steped off it the spoters job was to qauickly move it away and then try to spot before the climber came crashing down, always a near thing!
edit,
"Gill problem" the one on the left
I will hunt up the photos, my copy of the book is in storage, 200 miles away from where I am right now.
Scuff, Chasbro has a copy of the Jenny lake guide, i think I'll try to get him to remember to run some off and down to us in Vedauwoo next week.
John, if you don't get a better offer join us in Vedawuoo the weekend of the 17th of this month or the week before. See the vedauwoo logistics, thread.
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jgill
climber
Colorado
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If you are referring to the full page photo on page 110 of the 2nd edition, that's me coming down after looking at the upper holds. That was 40 years ago on a visit with my wife and small child. If crash pads had been available (their appearance was still over 20 years away) I might have given it a try, although I can't remember what the landing was like. Is there a big gap between the two rocks? Seemed too risky at the time. Judging from what I've seen out at the Buttermilks I would guess this problem is now considered moderate (please don't tell me it's trivial!)
I remember that even then there was a stretch to get on the rock on that old aid practice boulder (the left-most photo you posted). Can't imagine what it's like now.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Great to have you here Mr Gill.
Jody Langford pics:
Peter Croft, John Gill, Happy Boulders '02
John Gill, Happy Boulders '02
Dorothy and John Gill, James Langford
Peter Croft, Jody Langford, John Gill
James Langford with John Gill, September 2006
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NinjaChimp
climber
someplace in-between
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Wow, now I'm impressed. Welcome John. I don't really have anything to contribute at the momement, perhaps that's because I feel like a teenage girl at a Beatles concert right now.
-Justin
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Someone above said the Thimble was done in 1963 (followed by a question mark). The route was done in 1961.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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John bouldering at the Puppy Dome boulders in 2004...
Curt
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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John,
Having skulked into this company a mere month ago, I'll offer a newbie welcome. Pretty cool place here. Alternately silly and inspirational, like any good campfire.
Huge respect to you man! Your attitude, and the way you articulate it are, like, awesome. One sample:
“Long easy solo climbs done smoothly and continuously can arouse the sensation of weaving in and out of the rock. I’ve had this fascinating and drug-free experience on a number of occasions, and do not recall ever leaving a hand or foot embedded in the stony matrix.”
I carry this idea of yours around as a mystery and a revelation. Quote it to myself and chuckle. One of the best concrete descriptions of a mind state where the divide between self and the world simply vanishes.
thanks for sharing your vision. It means so much.
Doug Robinson
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Same problem somewhat more recently. '87?
Chris Raypole dismounting after an unsuccessful attempt. I wish I had panned down a little to see where the ground was.
Last time I was there I think there was a full on runoff ditch there; but maybe they fixed that?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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On a side note Jaybro: ain't that Leroy?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Wow, this forum just keeps on getting better. Hello John, I never met you (I don't think) but a hearty welcome.
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knieveltech
Social climber
Raleigh NC
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Taken last weekend. There's still a rubble-filled drainage ditch at the base of the problem. Mr. Gill, it was an honor to fall off of one of your problems!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Tar- nah it's Raypole I remember the day well. Fred and I sat and watched, I had a giant speaker thumping that 'new' album (Paul Simon's Graceland)out the back of my '83 Subby wagon loud enough to blot out the sun. Still wasn't enough to get Chris up that one.
Leroy has seen the photo and commented that though it does kinda look like hime, his calves are more impressive
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Michael Hjorth
Trad climber
Copenhagen, Denmark
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It's hard to say "welcome" when you're in the periphery (and humbled).
I'll do it anyway:
Welcome John - from the other side of the ocean!
Michael Hjorth
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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another famous Gill shot and, as usual there appears to be no holds
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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last one for me...
any other related pics out there?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Also from Master of Rock,
One of my favorites:
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Aug 11, 2007 - 03:08pm PT
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The photo two posts above was one of my first attempts at darkroom work. I was learning how to develop and print, and John had given me some old scratchy negatives. I was given permission to use the University of Colorado darkroom, and that photo was one of my first efforts. It was a very dark negative, grainy, not great focus, and in the days of darkrooms one did have photoshop or the easy means we now have for manipulating images, fooling with contrast, etc. There were a few tools, but it took quite a few attempts, adjusting the timing of developing, dodging, etc., to get a half way decent print.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 11, 2007 - 03:33pm PT
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I like the composition and texture of that shot a lot.
In so many striking depictions of Gill you can't tell whether he is straining at all, with his perfect form always engaged.
In this picture you see his flow in a very natural way and you can see him bearing down on the thin edges.
It conveys the feeling of primal elegance.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 11, 2007 - 04:36pm PT
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Nice job. It's possible a little feathering might have allowed the texture of the sweatshirt to be brought out withour losing the detail of the rock. But maybe not. The grainy character, IMHO, really adds a lot. That little loss in the surroundings moves the observer's attention onto what must have been going on in John's head.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Aug 12, 2007 - 03:46am PT
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About John never straining, or not showing it. Well, when you're with him he has these moments of high energy, for lack of a better description, where suddenly he starts getting really focused, and you seem to tense up right along with him, and he huffs and puffs a bit, training his mind toward some hold he intends to fly up to, or whatever. He does strain a bit at times, but in the way a gymnast might. Indeed his form is so amazing, and his technique so phenomenal, that almost invariably when you take a photo, even if the move he's on has required a big physical effort, he reveals some element of balance or transcendance or sheer power combined with exact footwork..., i.e. composure, control, mastery...
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MisterE
Social climber
Across town from Easy Street
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Aug 14, 2007 - 03:14am PT
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Welcome, John. Your quiet mastery was a great inspiration to me that 20 years ago, a newbie struggling with issues of ego and climbing. You represented to me all that was true and right about climbing as a celebration of movement.
Having a Master Scribe such as Oli was/is further reminder of what's important, and a unique synergy of energies during a formative period for many of us... the chaff fell away.
Thank you both.
Erik Wolfe
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Aug 14, 2007 - 08:03pm PT
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Thanks, Erik. Those are very kind words. All the best to you,
Pat
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2007 - 08:06pm PT
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I'm very glad to see that this thread has thrived (throve?) while I was away. It's the kind of thing that makes SuperTopia a special place.
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jgill
climber
Colorado
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Aug 14, 2007 - 10:08pm PT
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Thank you, Doug, Erik, Michael, Patrick, Justin, and Jody. I appreciate your thoughtful comments. And those of my old buddy, Pat!
John
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2007 - 10:46pm PT
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I completely forgot to mention what prompted thishread in the first place. A few years ago, one of the climbing magazines had a story about bouldering. It made some claim to the effect that John Gill had invented bouldering. (It wasn't a claim that he made - it was the magazine.) I had the temerity to write them a letter, noting that the origins of bouldering go much farther back than the 1950s, and gave the example of Oscar Eckenstein. The magazine published the letter - and then a few weeks later, out of the blue, an e-mail arrived from John Gill. He'd googled my name (not hard), and we had a pleasant exchange of notes about this. Naturally his website all along had mentioned Eckenstein and his role in the evolution of bouldering.
Eckenstein was a very interesting man, and all climbers owe him a debt for his ingenuity. There is even a boulder named for him, Eckenstein's Boulder, near the Pen y Pass hostel in Llanberis Pass in Wales, just up from Dinas y Gromlech. He gave climbing demonstrations on it in the 1880s and 1890s - but I believe there is now some doubt as to exactly which boulder it was. He'd be a good subject for a thread of his own. He even went climbing with Alisteir Crowley - the real one, that is. The Beast 666 etc.
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