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Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 23, 2007 - 11:57pm PT

Splurged on a Lake Sonoma 02 Dry Creek Valley Zin tonight. Costa, my local wine merchant, scored on the last 11 bottles available as a distributor had a broken case. 92 pts says he in Wine Aficionado. This 18 dollar beauty has fine legs, thick berry jam flavors and the wife is gone for the weekend. OMG

Any wine moments in your life? Have any of you bay area climbers attended the annual grapes and granite gathering in J-Tree?

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 24, 2007 - 12:10am PT

If you want a bargain that tastes expensive, try Gnarly Head Zinfandel, or Estancia Cab Sav.

Wine moments... yeah, plenty, but you'd only be jealous, or disbelieving. The great ones cost way too much now. Once upon a time you could get a real read burgundy for 7 bucks and a white one for 12. And some of these California cabs that are over 100 bucks now were in the teens in the late 70's-early 80's.

Chaz

Trad climber

So. Cal.

Jun 24, 2007 - 12:17am PT

I've been seeing Tobin James Ballistic Zinfandel in a local supermarket and at Bev-Mo for about $17-$18. The '05 is the best yet.

http://www.tobinjames.com/our_wines.asp

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2007 - 12:54am PT

Cigars are the new hippie lettuce. A great wine and a fine cigar, now we're talking.

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2007 - 01:17am PT

Thanks Locker,

I gave up the cigars, but still have fond memories.

If I don't climb in Idlewild tomorrow I will head to Josh and pick up the shoes. Need a partner?

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 24, 2007 - 08:04pm PT

Six Great Zins

A. Raffanilli-Dry Creek Valley, Sonoma
Turley-Napa
Outpost-Paso Robles?
Biale- Napa
David Michael "Lust"-Lodi
Deerfield-Sonoma

All of these makers produce single vineyard designates, most of which are higher end, all of which are outstanding. Some of these wines can be difficult to come by but they all certainly deliver the goods.

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2007 - 09:45pm PT

Hey Kenny, The only one I have had on the list is the Rafanilli and it is truly a fine wine. One of my buddies grew up with those boys. He has some stories to tell.

This "Dancing School House " painting of mine is used by Burrell School Vinyard for their Old School Cabernet. The wine sold out last year and was outstanding. It is a small mom and pop winery in the Santa Cruz Mountains.

http://www.burrellschool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=73

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

Jun 24, 2007 - 09:58pm PT

Zin is in my mind the best value in red on the market right now. Even the best zins, like the Ridge Lytton Springs, are less than $40, and you can get very good zin for less than $20. Not mention the fact that I like it.
Totally agree on the Rafanelli. Outstanding stuff. The Peachy Canyon single vineyard wines are also great for their price.

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 24, 2007 - 10:28pm PT

LOL, hearing the word "Value" and the phrase, "less than 40 dollars", about wine makes me feel old.

Used to drink Heitz Martha's Vinyard for 35-40 bucks a pop. BV Private Reserve Cab Sav for 12, then 15 bucks. Phelps Insignia and Eisle, take your pick, 25 bucks each. We thought those were expensive at the time. Let's not talk about Chassagne Montrache red and white for 7 and 11 bucks a bottle, SOB SOB.

But still, Gnarly Head zin tastes like the old style Zins did for about 10 bucks, and Estancia Cab Sav at about 15 bucks is mighty fine.

That's four zins for the price of one of those 40 dollar bottles, if anyone cares, and I don't think you'll find 30 bucks difference between em.

It really pesters me to see wines that were unknown and really reasonably priced just 20 or so years ago selling for over 100 bucks a bottle now. It's the same wine, tastes the same, just costs more. Mondavi wanted to make California wine expensive, and now it is, Oh Joy.

Raydog

Trad climber

Boulder Colorado

Jun 24, 2007 - 10:39pm PT

nice

climbrunride

Trad climber

Durango, CO

Jun 24, 2007 - 10:45pm PT

Silver Mountain Pinot Noir is excellent! They're just down the road from Burrell School Vinyards and also make an excellent Chard from organic grapes grown on the estate. Less than $20 a bottle. WOW! I got to go along for a private party and tour at the vinyard and like it even more now - I was very impressed.

Too bad I can't get it out here in CO.

Rick A

climber

Boulder, Colorado

Jun 24, 2007 - 11:04pm PT

Here's a tip: Fess Parker Syrah from Santa Barbera, the vintage that's in stores right now. A great bargain at $18. Keep this amongst yourselves.

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

Jun 24, 2007 - 11:08pm PT

Not the point I was trying to make Dirt.
I agree that what is perceived as the best wine has gotten way too expensive, and that those single vineyard Ridge's, are in no way three to four times better than any number of $10-15 zins.
Just that those Ridge's are good, and are recognized in the same way that the Phelps Insigna, or Mondavi Private Reserve, or any number of other $100+ bottles of Cab. Or $50-$75 bottles of Merlot or Pinot. Relative to those options, the zin is a value in my mind. Not that it makes me run around and buy $40 bottles of zin, when there are plenty of good options for less than $20, even here in Utah.

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 24, 2007 - 11:25pm PT

Steverino, my point about wine is that there is almost always something around ten or 15 bucks that is damned good, and I mean good without reservation. My other point is that 40 bucks is too much, unless the wine is truly world class. That's a function of drinking a lot of great wine before the nouveau riche drove the prices of French, then California wine sky high. Sort of like paying 3k for your first new car, and thinking that 20k is WAY too much for any car, and 40K is unspeakable.

IT could be worse. I knew a fellow whose dad had bought Chateau Latour 61 for about 2 bucks a bottle. Imagine how he felt when the wine price boom hit!

But back to wine values, there have been tastings where the so-called experts, who have a lot to do with setting prices, were given wines where the bottles had been swapped-- in other words, the cheaper wines were put in the expensive lables and vice versa. Guess what they picked as the best wines? And then there was the tasting with the wines in black glasses, where the 'experts' could not tell red from white.

I'm a firm believer that wine should be judged on how it tastes, and nothing else.

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 24, 2007 - 11:38pm PT

Jude, the Raffanelli's have become stingy w/ there juice. Tasting by appt. only and only 1 bottle per group- even if you are 10 people!

Steve, really lovin' the Ridge eh? good sh#t but some of the finest Zins are small lot little known labels w/ fat price tags, only to get worse.

Dirt, gas was a buck ten a gallon at that time. Those days are over bro, so either suck it up and pay at the pump, get an inside connect to lessen sticker shock, or continue drinkin' swill like Estancia cab.

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2007 - 11:41pm PT

Price, for the most part, does not determine the quality of the wine. I have tasted 60 dollar bottles that could have cost 10 bucks. However, The master wine maker, using advanced blending teckniques and ingredients will make a huge difference.

French Oak, which is the most prized aging barrel used for Pinot and Cabs, is very expensive. Hense the cost is passed on to the customer who is willing to pay for the quality craftsmanship and artistry that goes into these fine wines.

If the wine maker is a true artist, you will tell the difference.

California wines are amoung the best in the world. The list goes on.

I had Knarly Head for the first time this week, very tasty.

WBraun

climber

Jun 24, 2007 - 11:44pm PT

California wines are among the best in the world. The list goes on.

Ripple

Mad dog 20-20

night train

Thunderbird

Wild Irish Rose

etc.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jun 24, 2007 - 11:48pm PT

Last night I went camping with some friends in the mountains.
The weather was absolutely perfect, the night calm and clear, the moon and venus were the first to light the night. We were up in the firs and pines and with nobody within 5 miles the calm was only broken by a deer snorting in the woods nearby.

Being something of the wilderness sommelier I carried a modest selection, and as I was in the company of a young doctor with an experienced palete I decided to break out a bottle of Mouton Cadet Bordeaux to go with the london broil we barbecued.
Imagine my surprise when our third, a mormon rastafarian, expressed the wish to try the second glass of wine in his 30+ years.

Suffice to say that next time it will be his FIFTH glass.

Damn it was great.
Cheers to you all.

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2007 - 11:49pm PT

LOL Werner is coming for dinner, break out the mad dog and q up some dogs.

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 24, 2007 - 11:51pm PT

Dirty Kenny, bad analogy, what else on ST?

The range of price and quality in gasoline does not come close to that in wine. There are no gas tastings, and nobody will seriously tell you that brand x gas is worth 20 times the price of brand y, LOL.

If wine followed gas pricing structures, there woudl be three prices for wine, and all brands would price out within a few cents of each other, and be cheaper than bottled water. If only that were true.

But lets use your analogy anyway. 61 Latour, one of the greatest wines of all time, 2 bucks in say 1965, when you would be hard pressed to find gas at more than 25 cents a gallon in the USA. Let's find a multiplier. OK, gas is now over 3 bucks, for you losers in CA we'll call it $3.75, and use that to find that gas prices rose by a factor of 15. OK, using the same factor for wine, Latour should cost, HMMM, lemme see here, um, why, 30 bucks.

OK, I will buy all that you will sell me at that price, ROTFLMAO!!!!

But if you think Estancia is swill, you're just an effing wine snob, and I pity you. I'll bet you could not pick it in a blind tasting out of 12 wines as the 'swill' you proclaim.

Wild Bill

climber

Jun 24, 2007 - 11:51pm PT

Nice story Ron.

You helped him live a little, and it only took some Mouton-Cadet.

Wild Bill

climber

Jun 25, 2007 - 12:08am PT

Being partial to big reds, dry or sweet or anything in between, I am in heaven living in Northern California. (Although I found some CA wines being sold cheaper in NYC and Washington DC, even after being transported across country?)

For Big'n'Full I like, among many others, Lolonis reds. They just this weekend did the annual ladybug release into their Mendocino vineyards, as part of an organic pesticide-free operation.

https://www.lolonis.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6&Itemid=48

Rosenbloom Cellars in Alameda makes Huge reds, esp. Zinfandels, made in Alameda from grapes grown all over the bay area.

http://www.rosenblumcellars.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=37

This thread's making me hungry for a New York steak, grilled with olive oil, balsamic and a sprig of rosemary. And plenty of pepper.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm - steak!

Chaz

Trad climber

So. Cal.

Jun 25, 2007 - 12:40am PT

"...the calm was only broken by a deer snorting in the woods nearby."

I've done that.

Fart, and blame it on a deer snorting.

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 25, 2007 - 01:41am PT

You know its slippin' when you are arguing wines on a climbing web page but here goes-
Dirt, save your pity bro, I'm not a wine snob but I taste wines regularly as a part of my job and have for the last 15 years. I'd love to take you up on your little blind tasting wager. You are right, there are no gas tastings but there are wine tastings and there are plenty of people that will tell you that wine x is worth 20 times what wine y is worth. I am very familiar W/ Estancia wines among many others at that price point and in my opinion it is literally bottom of the barrel. That includes the entire line, not just there cabs. There are great bargains out there at that price point but that ain't one of them. BTW how many shares you holdin'?

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 25, 2007 - 02:32am PT

Well at least we know one of two things, Kenny.

You either have bad taste, or you have a wooden pallet.

15 year in the wine biz, tsk tsk, I got OUT of the wine biz way before you ever got in it. Started drinking serious wines seriously in '78. I think you were drinking milk only at that point. I'll bet you were a milk snob too!

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jun 25, 2007 - 08:40am PT

Anybody remember the skit on Saturday Night Live where these two winos are trying to "bum" hundreds of dollars for a high end bottle of wine, and then they get into a wine snob argument?

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 25, 2007 - 10:09am PT

I missed that one Ronbo. What year was it done?

There was also a good scene in a movie with Peter Lorrie, where he was a drunken bum, and a wine snob challenged him to a tasting. The wine snob would make all these glowing comments full of typical wine snob terms, while Lorre's character, after every glass, would only comment, in a half drunk slurred tone, "That's very nice wine!". Of course Lorre identifies all the wines correctly and wins.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jun 25, 2007 - 11:48am PT

California wine is expensive, even in California, as I saw back in January.

Over here in Ireland the best value wines at the moment, generally speaking, are from South Africa or Argentina, though some of the French regionals, such as from Languedoc, are also excellent value.

But you should try wines from Conn Valley Vineyards, where my brother Mac is the winemaker. He only makes about 12,000 cases a year, so while it is no boutique winery, it isn’t large either.

Robert Parker (he who thinks he is God) usually rates Mac’s wines around the mid-90s. His wines are in the Ritz in London, Paris Ritz, Ritz-Carlton in New York, nine of the main hotels/casinos in Vegas, and three Michelin star restaurants in France.

Yes, a Napa wine in French restaurants.

If you ever get the chance to visit the winery, it is on Rossi Road off Howell Mountain Road off the Silverado Trail. It’s off the beaten track and my brother says that people are always getting lost trying to get there.

http://www.connvalleyvineyards.com

I think it is safe to say that my brother is one of the top winemakers in the States.

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2007 - 12:13pm PT

I'll have to give that Conn Valley a go Patrick. Recently I had the pleasure of drinking an Opolo Zin from Paso Robles. It is very robust and jammy. I love the zins with 16% alcohol.

There is a small winery in Boulder Creek, Alghren that produces an incredible zin. Rosenbloom is a solid choice, Ridge, Storrs, so many great wines, so little time.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jun 25, 2007 - 12:34pm PT

Wild Bill, darn you, you should have included Mac's wines since you've been to the winery. Hhhmph

Wild Bill

climber

Jun 25, 2007 - 12:59pm PT

Aye, you're right Patrick. What can I say, it was late when I posted that.

But to be honest, your brother's excellent wines are, how shall I say it, a wee bit out of my range. Mac gave me two bottles, both of which were rated in the top 1-2% of all wines. They were phenomenal, rich beyond belief and perfectly balanced. They also retail for nearly $100 each, IF you can even find them.

So for me it was like renting a Ferrari for a day. I'd love to drive one every day, but, well, you know the story. Please trust me when I say Mac's wines were enjoyed immensely. I was planning on drinking one of the bottles with you up in Tuolumne, but that plan was quickly abandoned after the first of Mac's bottles was emptied.

Cheers

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 25, 2007 - 01:27pm PT

Anybody who pretends to wine snobbery should set themselves up with a double blind taste test as a reality check.

The one's I've checked can't tell the difference between Merlot, Cab and Pinot without crutches.

I'm with Dirty eyes. Great expensive wines are for those with money to burn. For the rest of us, there is a point of diminishing returns. You want a $50 bottle and a glass or a $15 bottle and a lobster?

Maybe the class wines have got expensive but the science of winemaking has evolved to the point where really cheap wine (particularly from Chile and parts of the world on their way up) can be just great with a nice meal.

Peace

Karl

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2007 - 01:49pm PT

Yellow Tail Shiraz $4.95 has won 3 different blind wine tastings I am aware of where the rules were bottles up to $20.00.

Trader Joe's, the campers gourmet store.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jun 25, 2007 - 02:50pm PT

Karl, you are right, some great values can be had from places like Chile.

But the best wine advice I ever got was from the great Johnny Hugel (one of France's top winemakers now retired. I was working the vendange in 1982 at Hugel et Fils in Riquewihr, Alsace. I was with my two friends, Marc and Etienne Hugel, along with some guy who had a wine shop and ran wine courses in Boston, Mass. We were in the private tasting room and they were using jargon that was going over my head (I have never had a formal wine tasting training or course).

In walks Johnny (Jean, but he preferred the English spelling), Marc and Etienne’s uncle. He asked how I was doing and I replied that I didn’t know what they were talking about.

He just replied: “It doesn’t matter. What matters is this (pointing to his nose), this (pointing to his head) and what you like.”

As Tomas Clancy, an Irish wine writer, put it to me once at a portfolio tasting (I write about wine as well, not that I know anything), there is more snobbery in wine that perhaps anything else.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 25, 2007 - 03:13pm PT

Snobbery is a great way to waste money. Create a mystic and charge for itl

That's how they have shoes and handbags that cost $400 and you can't even stash your gear in the bag or climb 5.7 in the shoes.

I think it would be great to have a tasting, inviite lots of snobs (but nobody with a magic taste) and offer them what's supposed to be $100 wine but is really $15 bottles. See who's fooled and who'se not. It would make for a fun reality show.

Peace

Karl

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 25, 2007 - 03:29pm PT

Karl, it's been done. You can look it up in old Wine Spectators. Not sure if you can find out exactly who was badly fooled though.

As I mentioned earlier, the expensive wine was put in the cheap wine bottles, and vice versa. Many experts tasted what they saw, LOL, not what went into their mouths, LOL.

But my favorite was the black glasses tasting, where some could not tell red from white.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jun 25, 2007 - 03:53pm PT

A professor at the University of Bordeaux did some research and decided that most people, blindfolded, could not tell the difference between a white wine and red wine, not to mention varieties.

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 25, 2007 - 04:24pm PT

Dirt, Who's sounding like the wine snob now? Back in '78 stories all sound the same to me. Iv'e got a bottle of '98 Hietz Cellars Marthas Vineyards Cab in my stash right now, not the best vintage but the price sure was right, 0$ just like most of my other wines of that caliber. So either get a connect or quit cryin' about the price of wines these days. Surely w/ your extensive background and knowledge on the subject you can score a freebie (or at least a price break)now and again.

BTW Gramps, I ain't no spring chiken but in '78 (age 16) I was not a milk snob I was a Coors light snob, thought it the blood of Christ. palates are subjective and once again in my opinion Estancia=Thunderbird, if you're going to pay 18$ for a bottle of that crap get yourself 9 bottles of 2 Buck Chuck, its all the same, a cuvee of grapes from god knows where.Oh, and, the fact that you are proppin' that sh#t so hard tells me that you are the one w/ wood on your palate-no pun intended

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 25, 2007 - 04:54pm PT

Estancia is not 18 bucks here, it's 15 or a little less.

I have no interest in them other than the wine writer I know knoes the winemaker there, and I've enjoyed all the Estancia products I've tasted.

COORS LITE?????

Game over dude, you lose.

You miss the point about those big name wines I dropped. back then, they were slightly pricey, but they were The Wines. Now wines cost a fortune even if they have almost no pedigree, and people like you gladly pay 40 bucks and way more for em.

And we wonder why the prices went up.

Chaz

Trad climber

So. Cal.

Jun 25, 2007 - 04:56pm PT

Best thing about Wine?

Wineries!

Spyro Gyra at Thornton Winery in Temecula, California:

Acoustic Alchemy at Thornton (damn, we get good seats!):

This guy's name is "Sangiovese" (or something like that) and he works the Customer Relations Department at Eberle Winery in Paso Robles, California:

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 25, 2007 - 05:32pm PT

Dirt, most of the wines you are talking about with "no pedigree" and big price tags are labels that you probably have never even heard of. The ironic thing is that those are now "THE WINES", being made by the makers with ALL the pedigree. Most of the wine makers who made "THE WINES" back in the day have moved on from the big houses and are doing small lot, highly allocated wines, wines that you will never get hands on, because you don't know sh#t about whats out there and whats good for the price point.
Many of the big names from back in the day are fetching top $ on just that, big names.

I personally won't pay 40$ a bottle because I don't have to. You are the guy the industry loves, barkin' loud about swill. They have to do something with the huge excess of mediocre grapes and you are just the type of sucker they are targeting. I have wines given to me all the time and I also get wines at cost(6 or 7$ a bottle for the dog sh#t you're drinkin'), so if anybody is guilty of driving up wine prices in Ca. its not consumers like me, and its not Robert Mondavi, its hypocritical, know nothing windbags like you. Your wine writer pal isn't doing you any favors Dirt, he's probably getting kickbacks from the winery and laughing all the way to the bank. Keep reading Wine Spectator and Wine Enthusiast as your main sources of info and you will get sucked into the politcal vacuum. Buying wine for guys like you is a "craps" shoot and you don't even realize it.

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno, CA

Jun 25, 2007 - 07:02pm PT

edit: Well said Dirty Kenny!

Interesting points of view and opinions here... Some of it makes one wonder just how much some of the people posting here actually know about wine. But, then again, that's how it goes with wine, in general. Always lots of wannabes when wine is the subject.

I don't claim to know a lot or much, but I've dated a wine maker for a few years of my life and have several good friends who are wine makers and claim to respect my palette a fair amount, especially my port palette. With that in mind, I'd wonder how many folks posting can actually differentiate differing flavors in wines? That's the real question. How many people can actually pick up on berries or jams or pepper or woods, or whatever have you in a wine. Once you can do that, it's not difficult to tell wines apart.

I don't think it's difficult, at all, to tell the difference between a really good wine and a bad wine, or even a mediocre wine. Nor is it terribly difficult to tell the difference between a Pinot, Merlot, Cab, etc... (Sorry Karl. And blind taste testing has been done to prove this, as I thought the same when I started dating the wine maker. Her whole enology class did it). It's all really a matter of refining your palette.

And those trying to push the "a $10 bottle is as good as a $200 bottle - the difference is ego or $$$ to burn..." Well, that's just flat out jealousy talking. Maybe you should sell all your A5, Mountain Hardwear, BD, Petzl, etc, gear and hit Ebay for some of those $50-for-a-full-set of cheap cams and WalMart for your fleece, shell, tent, and rain gear, etc... But, then again, how many people are there who own tons of gear that never really gets used too? Lots of wannabes in climbing too, methinks!

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jun 25, 2007 - 07:55pm PT

I drag my gear behind my car to make people think I'm very experienced.

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 25, 2007 - 08:21pm PT

Yo Karl, or Karl in Yo, whichever it is, the quality of a wine starts with the grape itself. Yes, the science of wine making has advanced greatly and a great wine maker can manipulate mediocre grapes to a certain extent(drinkable), just as an inexperienced wine maker can make a great wine with high quality grapes. A great wine however, will not be made with low quality grapes- plain and simple. You can soup up a VW bug but its still just that, a VW bug, not a Ferrari. You can drive the f*#ker and think you're cool but you ain't takin' on the race track.

Believe it or not most people who drink a lot of wine (weather its a good thing or not) can easily distinguish the differences between varietals, especially the popular one's, i.e. Cab, Merlot, Pinot Noir, Syrah. It ain't snobbery bro it just a lot of f*#kin' drinking. Snobbery is a personality flaw and has nothing to do with the subject of wine knowledge. Yes, great wines are for people w/ money to burn (wish I was one) or for people who can't afford them but are lucky enough to get them cheap or free. Some of the biggest "snobs" I've ever met are people who claim to be experienced climbers, most of whom are washed up fatso's who couldn't tow there asses up even 5.11 if there live's depended on it.

As to your question: Which would you rather have, a 50$ bottle of wine and a glass, or a 15$ bottle of wine and a lobster? Depends on the bottle. However, if I didn't know the label I'd take neither and settle for four beers or one good single malt- and a lobster.

mrtropy

Trad climber

Nor Cal

Jun 25, 2007 - 09:33pm PT

Maybe silghtly off topic but the owner/winemaker was/is a climber and kayaker. Makes some excellent wines. check out his site.
http://www.macchiawines.com/macchia/index.jsp

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jun 25, 2007 - 10:26pm PT

DIrty kenny, god what a blow hard.

Guys like you are a dime a dozen, LOL.

Never drank the good stuff when it was readily available, trying too hard now to compensate. Happy to pay too much cause you never got to pay something reasonable for good wine. Nuff said.

Anyone ever in the wine biz got those deals pal, you think that makes you special? blow me. Been there, done that, Yawn, don't care any more.

It's good you are still in the wine biz, you seem to need a lot of alcohol.

goatboy smellz

climber

colorado

Jun 25, 2007 - 10:46pm PT

Jeez, who would imagine a wine appreciation thread would turn into a pissing match. HA!

Since it cost a lot to win
and even more to lose
You and me bound to spend some time
wondering what to choose

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 25, 2007 - 11:10pm PT

Spurtineye, "blowhard"? "Blow me"? You are the one with wood on your palate, remember? "Been there done that" - ha! Been there done sh#t. Just like your "climbing career". You are the one dropping big names and whining about prices, ya big fat schmuck. Us "losers" here in Cali may pay more for gas, but we don't pay more (or at all) for wines. Speaking of losers, ever heard the word projection? Still livin' at mommy's house? Guys like you are not a dime a dozen, people at your age (56?) usually have something to show for it, in your case at least a bottle of one of your big-name wines from "back in '78". For a guy who "doesn't care any more" you are sure taking this sh#t hook line and sinker. I suppose you don't care about climbing anymore either because you've been there and done that too - Ha! What a joke! I don't think I'm "special" because I get deals on wine and I know that everybody in the industry gets breaks, but you're not one of them, gramps, and you seem a bit hostle about it. You're a f*#king poser trying to convince the world that you're the sh#t. BTW, loser, run down to Safeway because there's a deal on Estancia, and Mom's making spaghetti tonight - a perfect pairing: Estancia & spahgetti, Dirt & Mommy...

climbrunride

Trad climber

Durango, CO

Jun 26, 2007 - 01:21am PT

Wow! Yet again, the old rule held true. Jude started a nice thread, others joined in with worthwhile info, there was a nice discussion. I'm going to print off the first couple pages, to help my memory when I'm in the wine shop.

Then somewhere around 40ish posts, everything degenerated. Sad.

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2007 - 01:56am PT

Spurtineye, "blowhard"? "Blow me"?

What makes you tink we gut uf toopic clmbrrunneer reeider?

Damn fine 900 dolleer veeenteege ear.

climbrunride

Trad climber

Durango, CO

Jun 26, 2007 - 07:16am PT

Jude, it looks like you've been enjoying some of that good wine tonight. Prost!

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jun 26, 2007 - 08:39am PT

Chaz, you are right, wineries are the best, I love the smell of a winery, though being downwind of the Guinness Brewery also stirs the senses.

Can't you guys just agree to disagree... wine is a very personal thing and taste, so its subjective. Why argue about it, just chill out and have a glass.

And Johnny Hugel's advice wouldn't go amiss among some of you.

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno, CA

Jun 26, 2007 - 12:41pm PT

"Yellow Tail Shiraz $4.95 has won 3 different blind wine tastings I am aware of where the rules were bottles up to $20.00. "

Hmmm... Where are you finding YT Shiraz for $4.95 a bottle, Jude? I find it for $6.95 all the time, and at TJ's it like $8.95... That's like a 50% savings!

I don't know about any blind tasting done with it, but I really do like Yellow Tail. I always have a couple of bottles around. While I strongly disagree with Karl and don't think drinking a $50 bottle of wine is a big deal, I can't do it *every* day. Maybe a couple a week is OK. YT's Shiraz is a great wine that doesn't break the bank when you want a bottle without busting out something expensive. At the very least, it helps me continue building my collection, rather than removing from it.

Roger Breedlove

climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Jun 26, 2007 - 12:56pm PT

Wine stories,

1. Shanghai is very international and very modern—over 2000 skyscrapers. One evening on a business trip, I attended a wine dinner at an Italian restaurant. Mostly expatriates from all over. Surprisingly few Americans. It cost about $80 person for the wine and the food. A local wine importer brought in a smallish vintner from Tuscany, and we tasted three wines. The first and second were very good. The vintner told us about his family history—I think they have been making wines in the same soil since 1400—and the particular wines. He was the quintessential Italian—tall, dark, handsome, perfectly tailored, stylish suit. Nice job to be born into. The prices of the wines were about twice what they would be in the US. For the third wine the vintner went on and on about how proud he was of the wine since it had been come from such a tough harvest. Of course it tasted like sh#t. This seemed to be the international consensus. Wine knows no borders. My colleague gave me a bottle of Chinese Cabernet to take home. He suggested that I offer it in a blind tasting. No need, it was quite good.

2. I followed my bride to a conference in Arizona, south of Tucson, just north of the Mexican border. The country side was familiar and beautiful, but I had little to do. So I rented a car and drove around the country side. There are not many roads so I struck out towards Patagonia, a town on a high plateau southeast of Tucson. The little town had a coffee shop with real coffee drinks and daily delivery of the WSJ. I settled into a daily routine, driving 40 miles for a coffee and paper. On the last day we pushed past Patagonia and, rounding a hill, came to vineyards. This was totally unexpected. We sampled several wines at the shared wine tasting building—originally a whore house as are all old building in southern Arizona—and bought a bottle of red, labeled Tubac, like the town and artist colony. It sat at home on display. It was not good but it was drinkable. And it made a nice conversation piece.

3. At a New Year’s Eve celebration a few years ago, my bride and I joined several other couples in a quiet, refined sit down dinner, set on good china, and had quite, refined conversations (I had to practice.) Great folks with great stories, picked up from far and wide. The wines were picked by one of the guests, a very successful retired man who has been chasing wines all over the world, and who now has so many bottles in his wine cellar that he has calculated that he will die before he can drink them all. Personally, I think it is sort of useless to try to solve these sorts of single equations with at least two unknowns—his passing date and his consumption rate.

He brought a very nice, silkly white wine from 1947, (Vouvray, Le Haut-Lieu ), and a very smooth Paul Jaboulet Aîné, Hermitage La Chapelle 1990. The wine host gave us a tour: ...dense, youthful crimson colour. Dark, brooding aromas. Caramel, spices, plummy black fruit and super-ripe.... The party host was very nervous, because in her words, we were the wrong crowd for all the on-sight wine analysis (she was thinking of me.) But it turns out that I have two drinking personalities: one that throws his head back, takes big gulps, eagerly accepts refills, and makes the best jokes and quips on this side of any drunken façade (drunken delusions, notwithstanding), and the other one that slows down, looks thoughtfully in the wine and can just glimpse the taste and aromas being described (social delusions, notwithstanding).

For wines this far up the scale, I sort of expected fireworks, but instead we were treated to all the complexities that the wine enthusiast was alluding to. There is also the issue of getting the right social graces locked in by not drinking too fast, at least not at something like $100 per glass. The jokester had to be subdued.

But there was real salvation in that night of dining and drinking—-the wine host had enough of that fine stuff and a truncated sense of his own time for me to find a perfect blend of my two drinking personalities. By the time we got through the fine ports (Fonseca 1977) and then slipped into the high end Scotchs, I had reconciled my two personalities and reconciled with the old year. A great night and, thankfully, a short walk home.

4. For a big birthday, we and 14 of our closest friends took over a private dining room at a Italian restaurant (Bice’s local establishment). All eyes were on me, since I had organized the affair, picked the menu from the suggestions of the chef and asked the wine steward to pair it all with wine. Because of the size of the crowd, he purchased wines especially for the dinner. What a treat: fine, fresh Procesco to start, with the salad, appetizers, and toasts.

Quick aside, my toast, which I slaved over for a week, worked pretty well:

“I first met M on Saturday, March 15, 1975 at Jeannie and Bill’s in Berkeley.

She was beautiful, smart, stylish, and fun. (Spoken slowly to her and with intensity)

I was thirteen. (In my patented, pre-teen voice.)

There have been a lot of birthdays since then and lots of fun times. But some things never change. (Said to audience.)

I am still thirteen. (In my wearied, slight Southern drawl.)

And M is still beautiful, smart, stylish, and fun. (Refrain)

Happy Birthday.”

For the risotto we had a great Italian red (Sangiovese Intesa Villa Buonesera ’00) and then different wines each picked to compliment the meat (Amarone - Guiseppe Campagnola ’03), fish (Chardonnay Cabreo ’04) or chicken (Cortese Di Gavi-Pio Cesare ’05) entrées. Six hours of a perfect match of friends, wine and food. Of course, I insisted on sampling all of the wines and pretended to be drinking them with careful observation. In reality, I was just throwing my head back, if somewhat slowly to maintain social decorum, and thinking of the next joke.

I passed the host test.

On the way home, I asked my bride if she like my toast. She nodded but added, “I wasn’t stylish when I met you.”

Perfect.

I like wine.

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 26, 2007 - 12:59pm PT

Patrick you're right, way too much venom. Sorry people. A glass sounds good but its a bit early in the morning so a double espresso and a day of climbing will have to do-

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno, CA

Jun 26, 2007 - 01:10pm PT

Well, that's certainly better than the 12oz Red Bull and a day of desk jockeying I face... Regardless, Cheers!

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 26, 2007 - 10:18pm PT

Wine story

Used to Date a lady who worked at a fancy enough restaraunt. Came in after closing and the waitresses were gathered around the remnants of what was supposed to be a $5000 of wine that the big bosses had brought in for their special dinner. There was a bit left and we all got some drops to see how the fancy pants rich folks drank.

Very, very vinegary. Looked like some bad luck or bad storage had ruined $5000 of wine! Ouch.

Peace

Karl

Bill

climber

San Francisco

Jun 26, 2007 - 10:32pm PT

Karl, lots of people can identify varietal, region, and vintage blind. It's part of the test to become a master sommelier.

It's like saying all the cracks in Yosemite are the same.

Edit: OK, maybe not "lots". How about "some" instead.

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Jun 26, 2007 - 11:05pm PT

Wifes BD today.

She's been loosing weight and has been craving "pasta with weeds"

So tonight it was pesto with the Basil and Pepper from the back yard, seconds old, with garlic roasted in good olive oil last night. Served over Linguini and Brie with toasted Walnuts and Asiago garnish.

The wine was an 04 medium priced Chianti. Very good but a bit soft and probably more suited to a veal dish.

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2007 - 01:37am PT

TGT: Shouldn't you be in giving your wife her birthday spankings instead of chatting with us bums. You've got to love those wine sharing kisses but they are never better with veal. LOL

Russ Walling

Social climber

Out on the sand.... man.....

Jun 27, 2007 - 01:41am PT

You wine snobs crack me up.. but since you are here and I'm on the prison computer.... which box wine is better: Vella or Franzia??? I'm talking about something red... like Hearty Burgundy. Please advise.

Wild Bill

climber

Jun 27, 2007 - 01:43am PT

Russ - take whatever the guards are willing to smuggle in for you.

Pruno is not bad, if allowed to ferment adequately. Watch out for pits and teeth though.

Finn

Trad climber

Santa Rosa, CA

Jun 27, 2007 - 01:55am PT

Man, some really serious crying happening around here with all this talk of palate, blind tastings, distinguishing varietals, etc. I think we're slightly off kilter on this one.

With regards to pricing, I'm not gonna go look for it but there was the beginning of a very solid argument a number of posts back which started with the fact that a wine begins as little more than a grape. I would like to take that one step further and say that it's the vineyard. It's all the rage these days to be a winemaker and proclaim little influence on the grape and say that your wine is an expression of the vineyard. However, it’s no coincidence, the Europeans knew this long ago and it just took us a little longer to get there.

Not all but many of those that have the land and the vines value it that much more and are putting more time and energy into creating a product in a biodynamic and ecologically sound manner and truly returning to making wine for it's original purpose. But to do this in the proven wine regions of Cali it takes a ton of money.

When I talk about an organic vineyard or biodynamic vineyard this does not mean an organic wine (no sulfurs are used in organic wines), it merely relates to the vineyard management practices. Winemaking is a very organic process (in its finest form) save the sulfur.

You can always buy your two buck chuck but remember that the vineyards it grew in probably used a lot more pesticides and caused a lot more damage than a Sonoma Coast wine that was grown biodynamic by pioneering growers who care about their craft.

The costs rack up fast in the world of making great wine and the margins are slim. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of exceptions and some make grotesque margins. I’m simply defending the artisan that strives for a great product and tries to do it at a fair price but can’t compete with the gallos of the world. Their ethics are apples and oranges, as is their bottom line.

Finn

Trad climber

Santa Rosa, CA

Jun 27, 2007 - 02:00am PT

If you wanna spray about how hard you swirl and spit go here: http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jun 27, 2007 - 03:29pm PT

Bill is correct, there are some people who can, in a blind tasting, correctly identify wines by varieties, regions etc...

But it is tough.

Master of Wine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_wine

I know several very experienced wine writers, winemakers, and wine buyers who have struggled to pass/get this qualification. It is tough and rigorous. And the fact that there are only 300, give or take, Masters of Wine in the world, coupled with the failure rate... let's just say that people who pass have my vote of respect when it comes to wine knowledge.

But again, as I posted earlier, Johnny Hugel's advice is the best.

"What matters is this (your nose), this (your brain) and what you like."

That last one, and what you like, is perhaps the most important.

Roger Breedlove

climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Jun 27, 2007 - 05:35pm PT

Hey Pat,

I have my own master of the wine universe test that I pass with every bottle.

Nice label, check.
No mold, check.
Pretty color, check.
Nice aromas check.
Tastes fair, good, great, 'let's stop talking and savor this stuff', (pick one) check
Next bottle, check

Who's driving?

Buzz

There is an interesting series of articles by Mike Steinberger, Slate’s wine columnist on the state of assessing wines at Do You Want To Be a Supertaster?

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2007 - 05:47pm PT

Randall Graham of Bonnie Doon Vinyards on wine. (For the true snob)

http://wine.appellationamerica.com/wine-review/136/Randall-Grahm-on-Terroir.html

MONDOVINO is an enlightening movie on the history of wine that explores both European and American wine makers. The Europeans, so connected to the soil, contrasted by the brash dot commer
American who respects himself. A must see with a fine wine, goat cheese, olives and pepper crackers. http://imdb.com/title/tt0411674/

paganmonkeyboy

Trad climber

the blighted lands of hatu

Jun 27, 2007 - 09:50pm PT

"which box wine is better: Vella or Franzia???"

hmmm...as a regular gulper of both, i honestly couldn't tell ya - get the 11.95 burgundy and call it good ;-)

i used to work at the finest restaurant in buffalo. all the stars, couldn't get in and out with a deuce for under a bill unless you skipped the apps and went with the lemon pepper chicken...one night someone accidentally opened a 92 when the previous bottle was a 91 (i think) of a chateauneuf de pape (de fleurry ?) so it got rejected tableside...best red i have ever had, but not 50 bucks better than the box of vella imho...

and is the louis tres worth 120 a shot ? compared to the hennesy ? not sure i buy it, but the bottles sure look pretty...

sippin smoking loon syrah right now while rallying the third 14 hour day at work - yummmmmm...

Finn

Trad climber

Santa Rosa, CA

Jun 28, 2007 - 01:34am PT

Oh wow, sweet... A compliment from Crowley, ugh.

Mondivino is a great movie, worth seeing if you are somewhat interested in the subject. The guy who put it together suffers from the same things Michael Moore suffers from; brutal honesty and difficulty maintaining an unbiased view. None the less, he chronicles some very influential people who pride themselves in an ancient business.

A movie worth noting (but hardly worth seeing) is Sideways, it's done something really cool to the wine market and that's make Merlot really cheap! Enjoy it now because Merlot is a great grape and the surplus on the market right now is a real bonus for the consumer. But like everything, it's a trend and it will fall back into it's old expensive ways soon enough.

Pinot Noir is all the rage these days so it's a little tougher to find good bargains. Word on the street is that Pinot Gris is the next up and comer, I'm not sure yet but the prices sure are right.

Finn

Trad climber

Santa Rosa, CA

Jun 28, 2007 - 01:40am PT

"French wine-growers go guerrilla"
A shadowy group in France has issued the French government with an unusual ultimatum: raise the price of wine or blood will flow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6759953.stm

Hey Russ, try this box wine: http://www.threethieves.com/

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Jun 28, 2007 - 04:24am PT

Finn, doesn't surprise me, grape production in France is way up and Consumption is way down.The huge excess is being converted and used as a fuel source. BTW if you like the box wines stick with 'em, cause there is a ton of box wine out there being passed off in bottles with fancy labels and big price tags.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jun 28, 2007 - 09:44am PT

I don't know Finn, as entertainment, I thought Sideways was very entertaining.

Mondovino is a documentary I have been trying to see. I understand that it is quite good, though a bit long, and a bit repetitive, in that it asks many of the same questions to the same groups and gets the same answers. For example, all the small growers are saying the same thing, and the large conglomerates are all saying the opposite, especially about the homogenization of wine globally.

Finn

Trad climber

Santa Rosa, CA

Jun 28, 2007 - 12:05pm PT

Sideways is hillarious, no doubt. But it's very serious when you take a look at the impact it had on the wine industry. The consumer numbers tilted towards Pinot and away from Merlot immediatly after that movie hit the silver screen. Wine is a very fickle product and it's incredible how much the he said/she said thing influences the market. Don't even get me started about the wine writers.

On that note - you wanna try some great Pinot ;) check out Oregon! For the price there are some incredible values out there.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jun 28, 2007 - 03:04pm PT

Finn, the problem with Pinot Noir (perhaps my favorite variety) is that it is difficult to find a good one at a good price.

Certainly in Ireland it is, and we get Pinots from Burgundy, California, New Zealand, Australia/Tasmania, Chile and all points beyond, and it is difficult to find good value, more so than with (perhaps) in other varietals.

Hey, what's wrong with wine writers? I write about wine (but in an informative way, not a snobbish way, believe me, honest, really). I laos know some very good Irish wine writers, and some very snobbish ones as well. As with all walks of life, it takes all kinds.

Bill

climber

San Francisco

Jul 1, 2007 - 02:35am PT

"Two-Buck Chuck, less known by its formal name of Charles F. Shaw, was judged the best Chardonnay from California at the California State Fair Commercial Wine Competition, held in Sacramento."

"Since the state fair uses wine professionals as judges and the wines are tasted blind, the results stand on their own. Some 270 Chardonnays from 2005 were evaluated, so Two-Buck had plenty of competition."

From James Laube's blog at Wine Spectator.

Bill

climber

San Francisco

Jul 1, 2007 - 04:19am PT

Ravenswood and Coor's?!? *gag*

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 1, 2007 - 08:53am PT

I was going to say!!

(Since when does Coors have a vintage? LOL)

Chaz

Trad climber

So. Cal.

Jul 1, 2007 - 09:09am PT

Vintage Wednesday.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 1, 2007 - 10:31am PT

I hear it was a very good day.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 1, 2007 - 12:20pm PT

I always thought an "Australian shiraz" was a noisy way of expressing displeasure.

Jerry Dodrill

climber

Bodega, CA

Jul 1, 2007 - 01:49pm PT

I've plugged this before, but try this wine!: http://radiocoteau.com/
The Syrahs are screaming right now here in Sonoma County. You won't find this through a distributor. Buy direct.

Eric Sussman is a climber and amazing wine maker.

THE WINE ADVOCATE #168, December 2006
"Eric Sussman, who apprenticed with Tom Dehlinger, has quickly established himself as an up-and-coming small specialist of single vineyard Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Syrah, and Zinfandel. As with most cutting edge winemakers, Sussman believes in a natural approach to winemaking, including indigenous yeast fermentation, extending aging on lees, little or no racking, and no fining or filtration."

STEVEN TANZER'S INTERNATIONAL WINE CELLAR, May/June 2007
"Eric Sussman told me that he likes to work with barrels made from staves dried for a full three years, and that he doesn't rely on a single cooper. "I mix as I see fit, looking at the fruit, then choosing the cooper," he explained. The soft-spoken Sussman is a methodical, thoughtful winemaker with extensive experience in Burgundy (at Comte Armand, with Pascal Marchand) and an extended stint at Dehlinger under his belt. His wines reflect his Old World training: they are pure expressions of variety and site, and are characterized by silky textures and an emphasis on balance over power."

Jude Bischoff

Ice climber

Palm Springs

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2007 - 10:24pm PT

EOS 04 Zin from Paso Robles $10.99. I don't know if it's the soil, the climate or the good juju, but the zins from Paso Robles are a worthy inbibration mun, rastafari!

adam d

climber

Jul 2, 2007 - 03:12pm PT

Ditto on the Paso Robles Zins being great (though I'd not recommend the EOS). Check out the Dover Canyon Old Vine (only 8 barrels in the 2004 vintage). Less sweet but still great berry/fruit. Any zins from Opolo are good...the Four Vines "Biker" vintage is a good value and tasty too.

Best recent bottle...Santa Ynez Valley (home turf)...Foxen's 2004 Williamson-Dore Vineyard Syrah ($45 retail). AMAZING!!!

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Jul 2, 2007 - 03:21pm PT

I'm more of a beer drinker, but was out to dinner with the wife and one of her friends and decided to get a Sauvignon Blanc to compliment my Tilapia (fish). Wow, really good wine. It was a Morgan Sauvignon Blanc 2006ish, from the Monterey area. Really good.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Jul 2, 2007 - 03:22pm PT

Cosmic, Rosemont Estates make alot of good wine, pretty reasonably priced too! Mmmm, Aussie wines.

Finn

Trad climber

Santa Rosa, CA

Jul 4, 2007 - 04:18pm PT

Europe Wine Crisis

EU plan would combat glut of grapes, drop in quality

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20070704/NEWS/707040376/1036/BUSINESS01

Perhaps the sky is falling

To make up for rekindling this post perhaps I'll make a recommendation:

J Pinot Noir - sometimes you can find it in Costco although I havn't seen it there in a while. Rusian River fruit.

Happy 4th!

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Apr 11, 2009 - 05:01pm PT

(Dirty Kenny) you kick ass!

among all these climbers posts not one of ya mentions the wonderful Malbec grape.

I recommend to the "SuperOCDer's" Go rent the movie "Bottleshock". that's a killer story!

Mike Bolte

Trad climber

Planet Earth

Apr 11, 2009 - 07:54pm PT

A friend brought this out at a dinner in the Fall of 2007. The 1982 is as good as its reputation.

murcy

climber

San Fran Cisco

Apr 11, 2009 - 10:37pm PT

On our honeymoon in Montreal in 1992 (where we also discovered Unibroue beers, with a memorable Eau Benite or three outside at an old city cafe), we enjoyed a bottle of Robert Stemmler pinot noir, and it was a really amazing experience--"bigger" than a usual pinot, and a taste evolving over the tongue in a special way. Stemmler himself no longer makes the wine, but the winery survives in other hands, and when we've tried their pinot it's always been good.

http://www.robertstemmlerwinery.com/history/history_index.html

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 12, 2009 - 01:35am PT

I had a glass of '76 LaTour last year. It was just O.K. having lost a lot of it's fruit. It was up against an '82 Taurasi Radici that kicked it's ass. Any of you stiffs out there besides Ghost know anything about Italian wines? Italian wine labels can be a bit confusing, so ask me question if you have any trouble.

mooch

Big Wall climber

The Immaculate Conception

Apr 14, 2009 - 12:00am PT

I see a few folks have visited the Temecula Valley appellation. Can't say we're boasting a huge rep like Fairplay (Eldorado), Amador, Alexander and a few of my other favorite spots. But we certainly are growing and refining our works......approaching 40 wineries now. Sorry to sound so lopsided but I gotta put in some props for the winery I work for......Stuart Cellars (featuring some amazing Bordeaux and Rhone wines: Malbec, Cab Franc, Syrah, Petit Sirah, Viognier. Just put out Lagrien (a northern Italian varietal). Here's Mooch and Mrs. Mooch entertaining the masses....

And as far as you Two Buck Chuck supporters go, keep the scales even when you make statements like this:

"Since the state fair uses wine professionals as judges and the wines are tasted blind, the results stand on their own. Some 270 Chardonnays from 2005 were evaluated, so Two-Buck had plenty of competition."

Best Chardonnay......HAAA!! When 2 Cent Bent goes to the San Fran Chronicle Wine Competition (1700 Red wine entries alone) and wins Double Gold and Best In Class......give me a call. I'll be the first to eat my shorts. And even if I do end up dining on my shorts.....I'm sure it will be right up there with the nose and mouth feel of their Chard! Gaaakkkkkk!!

Aya K

Trad climber

New York

Apr 14, 2009 - 12:25am PT

www.snooth.com

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Jun 11, 2009 - 01:12am PT

still drinking melbac!

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Jun 14, 2009 - 01:55pm PT

Leo and I shared a fantastic bottle of The Seven Deadly Zins up on Virginia last week. Don't let the "Appelation Lodi" throw you off - this full-bodied wine went superbly with his pepper jack cheese.

It's priced fairly at about fifteen bucks, and worth the extra bit you pay above my customary [cheapskate] price. The only thing that could make it better than serving it with an El Cap view is when you drink it out of an Eisch breathable glass.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Jun 14, 2009 - 02:00pm PT

Someone here has to review Roper's own label from years back: Incubus Hills 1970.

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Jun 14, 2009 - 02:36pm PT

I'll give it a go, Peter. Where can one get a bottle, or is there an inside joke I'm missing here.

Jerry Dodrill

climber

Sebastopol, CA

Jun 14, 2009 - 03:41pm PT

Some great wines are made by climbers. Here are a couple climber/winemakers I know whose wines I recommend you try.

Richie Allen, Rombauer Vineyards, St. Helena
http://www.rombauer.com/

Eric Sussman, Radio Coteau, Forestville
http://www.radiocoteau.com/

Andrew Berge, Chasseur Wine (assistant wine maker), Sebastopol
http://www.chasseurwines.com/chasseur/index.jsp

Kristen Barnhisel, Handley Cellars, Anderson Valley
http://www.handleycellars.com/index.jsp

Cameron Parry, Chateau Montelena, Calistoga
http://www.montelena.com/

Cameron Vawter, Dana Estates, Napa
http://danaestates.com

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Jun 14, 2009 - 03:49pm PT

No Wayno, no troll with this. Roper had a whole lot of wine bottled up with his own label, "Incubus Hills". I had some at Royals in 1971. I am remembering it was a Pinot Noir or Cabernet, perhaps a blend even. It was good. There are some tales about this too that Roger Breedlove likes to relate. How Roperesque, though, Incubus Hills.

Wow Jerry! thanks for that. Great wineries those.

Jerry Dodrill

climber

Sebastopol, CA

Jun 14, 2009 - 03:57pm PT

Great folks too. We've had a blast climbing locally with great views of Napa, Sonoma, the Coast, and even the Sierra on a clear day, from Mt. St. Helena. Then hike down to share the local delicacies.

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Jun 14, 2009 - 05:56pm PT

Thanks guys, I'll see if I can find some of these wines and I'll post my thoughts.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Jun 14, 2009 - 11:58pm PT

went climbing today before the laker game. just sipp'n some more of that (too me) full bodied($15.00) melbac! here is my local winery.http://www.rosenthalestatewines.com/

maxdacat

Trad climber

Sydney, Australia

Jun 15, 2009 - 09:37am PT

Glad to see a quick ctrl+F shows nobody is talking about Ernst & Gallo or Blossom Hill. Between the two of them i reckon they would make up 50% of the US wine sales here in London which is a bit of a worry.

Ben Rumsen

Social climber

No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )

Jun 15, 2009 - 12:43pm PT

Here is one of my favorite summer wines - Domaine Tempier Rose from Bandol. The current 2008 vintage is outstanding!!

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Jul 10, 2009 - 12:39am PT

I think the Supertopo crowd could use some fine wine right know.

I'm sipp'n on some smooth big red Zin from Santa Barbara's Rosenblum cellars.

mrtropy

Trad climber

Nor Cal

Jul 10, 2009 - 01:38am PT

Pete, glad you like the 7 Deadly zins, one of my best friends is the owner of the Winery. I am Teaching his son to climb now and we will be hitting the rock next week. Other Michael David wines are good too. Lodi has long been over looked and is now making a name.

S.Powers

Social climber

Jtree, now in Alaska

Jul 10, 2009 - 07:15am PT

Post bump to get rid of the A-hole Onyx!

Ben Rumsen

Social climber

No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )

Jul 10, 2009 - 05:38pm PT

The only thing better than good wine, is having lots of good wine !!!

PhotogEC

climber

Jul 10, 2009 - 05:42pm PT

Ben, thanks a lot. I now have cellar envy.

klk

Trad climber

cali

Jul 10, 2009 - 06:05pm PT

mrtropy: very cool.

long as we're pimpin the locals, i really like the white sangiovese from mt. brow.

and the port is surprisingly good at that price.

http://www.mtbrowwinery.com/

mrtropy

Trad climber

Nor Cal

Jul 10, 2009 - 07:04pm PT

KLK,
You may know the climb he is on Rainy Day Crack on Kennedy Tower on SNP. Lots of good wines in Amador and Calaveras Counties too.

Ben Rumsen

Social climber

No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )

Jul 10, 2009 - 07:25pm PT

" Lots of good wines in Amador and Calaveras Counties too. "

Don't forget El Dorado County !!

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno

Jul 10, 2009 - 08:12pm PT

I think I see a couple of bottles in there that belong to me, Ben!

See you in a few weeks! :)

Doug Buchanan

Mountain climber

Fairbanks Alaska

Jul 10, 2009 - 08:53pm PT

I did not read the entire thread, but you might want to try Magito zinfandel. Magitowines.com.

Obscure wine. Superlative flavor gradient if enjoyed with a spicy meal. Plan to have a couple drinks left in the glass by the end of the meal. Starts robust, ends with a smooth plum perception.

It is known at BarbecueNight.com, the Fairbanks outdoor adventure and wine crowd weekly gathering.

Carry on....

Doug

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Jul 11, 2009 - 01:18am PT

just want to say i like the look of that wine cellar. reminds me of the one that my accountant built.

I just love to invite friends who know how to drink and share wine.

a good summer wine is "Peju Provence" from Napa!

apogee

climber

Jul 11, 2009 - 02:36am PT

ptpp: "Eisch breathable glass"

http://www.eisch.de/eng/website/news/breathable_glass/index.php

Ever use one of these? Is it real or a gimmick?

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Jul 11, 2009 - 03:00am PT

Anything by [url="http://www.kenwrightcellars.com/" target="new"]Ken Wright[/url] up here in Orygun...

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno

Jul 11, 2009 - 03:08am PT

haven't tried a breathable glass, looks gimicky to me. I do have a venturi wine aerator tho. Really opens the wine up!

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Jul 11, 2009 - 03:16am PT

healyje,

My wife and I just drank one of our 2006 Ken Wright Pinots!

luckily we have two more!

Very Top row - Shraumsberg sparkling wine and various whites
Next 3 rows- California Cabs and some whites on right
2nd 3 rows- French Pomerol and Italian
3rd 3- French many
4th- Syrah, Pinot, Rose, Malbec, Champange, Random Large Bottles Bottom row- Desert wines

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jul 11, 2009 - 10:22am PT

Ben, wines from Bandol can be world class, but the cost...

Nearby Cassis is a better place to hang out if you like climbing limestone over the sea.

Jerry Dodrill

climber

Sebastopol, CA

Aug 17, 2009 - 03:34am PT

Red Car Wine's Heaven and Earth 2007 Pinot Noir was rated a very high 98 by Wine Spectator. I spent a year shooting this vineyard and was psyched when they ran my image on the bottle labels. Check it out on the September cover of Wine Spectator. I've yet to get my hands on this stuff.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Aug 21, 2009 - 11:26am PT

thank-you jerry! I'll be sure to get that issue of Spectator.

maldaly

Trad climber

Boulder, CO

Aug 21, 2009 - 01:47pm PT

In 1982, while out riding my bike, I was hit from behind by a crashed motorcycle and woke up in the hospital 3 days later. I had a closed head injury (rebound concussion) broken occipital bones and brutal concussion. I felt like being hung over for 45 days. Towards the end of my recovery I discovered that I'd lost my sense of smell when I was leaning up against the stove and my wife said she smelled something burning. I didn't smell anything. Turned out that the back of my shirt was on fire and I couldn't smell it.

Instantly, my taste in wine got a lot less expensive and I'm now completely satisfied with Yellowtail and Black Box. But I have a funny story. We have a group of friends who are waaaaay into wine, so much so that they meet for a blind tasting each time a new issue of the Wine Spectator comes out. The buy the reviewed wines, do a blind tasting, rate them and whoever comes closest to WSs rating wins a case! Very cool. We got invited to participate in one of their tastings and damned if I didn't win! I came home with a case of really nice wine I couldn't even smell. That leads me to think that there's a lot more going on in red wine than smell alone and that there's a lot left over in your sensory reception after your smell is gone. Turns out I can still savor, differentiate and enjoy nice red wines. Not as much going on in nice whites though.

Here's a link to an interesting article in this morning's Slate. It tells the story of the guy who was Christie's wine auctioneer who auctioned off Thomas Jefferson's old wine for fantastic prices only to have them turn out as fakes. Fascinating!
http://www.slate.com/id/2224427/

Enjoy,
Mal

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Aug 21, 2009 - 07:13pm PT

Interesting story Mal.

(BTW just spoke to Kyle)

I think that, while sophisticated tastes can discern subtle nuances, some of the best wines are the ones you look back on fondly for the company they were shared with.

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno

Aug 21, 2009 - 07:29pm PT

Very true, Ron! :)

klk

Trad climber

cali

Aug 21, 2009 - 07:43pm PT

You know Mal, maybe they should consider giving the prize to whoever gets the farthest away from WS ratings.

Jerry Dodrill

climber

Sebastopol, CA

Aug 28, 2009 - 12:25am PT

Woah, Andrew gave me some Chasseur Umino Pinot Noir. Tis yummy.

JOEY.F

Social climber

sebastopol

Aug 30, 2009 - 01:59am PT

Tasted Andrew's Umino Pinot today,
Ummmm
Screams lamb
Which he had.
Yum!

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Sep 1, 2009 - 02:06am PT

I did our almost monthly Italian wine and food tasting we have with some employees from Angelo's and some of our local wine wholesalers tonight. We had a '93 Sandrone Barolo a '91 Voerzio Brunolo Brunate, an '89 Sella & Mosca Marchese di Villamarina Cab., a 2001 Il Falcone Nero de Avola and Cab. and a 2003 Brunello that I can't remember. The food was phenomenal and the wines were stellar. OMG my palette is still buzzing. Does it get any better?

lars johansen

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Sep 1, 2009 - 09:37pm PT

Jude-

I seem to remember a Chalone Pinot Reserve we consumed in Saline a few back, followed by a couple of Punch Champions.

Hee haww

lars

Scared Silly

Trad climber

Sep 1, 2009 - 10:50pm PT

You know my biggest problem with being a "wine aficionado" is when I an order $500 bottle of wine at a restaurant is whether I should tip 15%-20% or just $50 for corking the bottle. I mean it is not like the sommelier did anything that the busboy could not do not. Heck even when my Grandmother was well into her 90s she could pop a bottle of Two-Buck Chuck with out any troubles.

What do you folks do?

powderdan

Social climber

mammoth lakes

Sep 3, 2009 - 06:27pm PT

cork dorks!

squishy

Mountain climber

sacramento

Sep 3, 2009 - 06:38pm PT

beer queer...

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno

Sep 3, 2009 - 06:53pm PT

"Wine Spectator. That's all they do.. spectate. Or maybe it's speculate. In any case, they can blow me."

I don't always agree with Parker either... He does, essentially run the show, however, in the wine world.

"You know my biggest problem with being a "wine aficionado" is when I an order $500 bottle of wine at a restaurant is whether I should tip 15%-20% or just $50 for corking the bottle. I mean it is not like the sommelier did anything that the busboy could not do not. Heck even when my Grandmother was well into her 90s she could pop a bottle of Two-Buck Chuck with out any troubles.

What do you folks do? "

Umm... Corking Fees are for when you bring your own booze into the restaurant. You will not be charged a corking fee for purchasing wine from the restaurant. Typically, this is $20-25. You can probably find a pretty decent bottle of wine on their list for that price.

However, if you feel the urge to bring something in that is $500 in, say a nice bottle of Latour, etc., and can afford that, then what's the gripe in paying for someone to open the bottle, serve it to you and your guest, etc.

So, to answer your question, you either BYOB and pay a corking fee (but you can afford it, cause you're the badass bringing in a $500 bottle of wine) or you purchase a nice wine from the list, pay no corking fee. Either way, you pay the appropriate tip (commensurate to the service you receive) and enjoy your meal.

I'd expect that someone who is bringing a $500 bottle of wine into a restaurant would know this, however. Otherwise, that's probably a *real* waste of a fine wine! lol

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Feb 27, 2010 - 11:01pm PT

Malibu wine is Emma's choice!
happy tastings.

mooch

Trad climber

Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)

Feb 27, 2010 - 11:28pm PT

Nice rack Ben! Where are you guys at on the rebuild? 800+??

Ben Rumsen

Social climber

No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )

Mar 2, 2010 - 06:48pm PT

Nice rack Ben! Where are you guys at on the rebuild? 800+??

There's around 1450 bottles in the cellar now including about 70 magnums - about 100 bottles too many. Time to drink some !

Here is one of my favorite champagnes - Veuve Clicquot 1988 !! Try some - if you can find it!!

S.Leeper

Sport climber

Austin, Texas

Mar 2, 2010 - 09:07pm PT

"Cigars are the new hippie lettuce. A great wine and a fine cigar, now we're talking. "

sorry, no substitute for the real thing.

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Sep 27, 2010 - 10:21pm PT

Aver Family Vineyards Homage Syrah out of Morgan Hill is rockin the pallet tonight. Also try their Petite Syrah for a total treat.

powderdan

Social climber

mammoth lakes

Sep 28, 2010 - 02:44pm PT

CORK DORKS!

Brokedownclimber

Trad climber

Douglas, WY

Sep 28, 2010 - 02:55pm PT

I lean towards really good Oregon Pinot Noirs; at ~ $23.00 a bottle I like Elk Cove pretty well. Served that with a home-raised beef rump roast for dinner last Christmas.

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Sep 28, 2010 - 03:14pm PT

I went to the country, and while I was gone, I lost control of my body functions, on the lower headed lady's front lawn. I'm so ashamed, but I'm a wino man, I can't help myself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oooArek035o

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Sep 28, 2010 - 03:52pm PT

Those Oregon Pinot's are tasty.

Obviously PowderDan once worked in a winery as a cork soaker.

bringmedeath

climber

la la land

Sep 28, 2010 - 04:03pm PT

Quilceda Creek Cabernet Sauvignon... anyone tried the last 6 releases of this one?

You don't need to soak the corks...

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Feb 27, 2011 - 02:17am PT

Was in the mood for some good vino!
Malibu Family is nice!

who ya calling cork dorks!
climb then drink fine wine.

if you come out to climb Malibu then take the time to drink their wine!

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Feb 27, 2011 - 02:35am PT

also Chataeu Mantelena 2006 Cab is quite a fun time!

Gal

Trad climber

a semi lucid consciousness

Feb 27, 2011 - 03:16am PT

I am def not an aficionado, as I will partake in glass of bare foot. But from my uncivilized palette, I have tried a few organic style reds, and thought they were smooth and tasty. Also, here is a nice dessert wine (it is SO GOOD, SERIOUSLY try it)-Porto Cocoa-I have confirmation from people who actually know good from bad, and this is one of the best wines I've ever had the joy of trying.

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Feb 27, 2011 - 12:16pm PT

I went to the country, and while I was gone, I lost control of my body functions, on the lower headed lady's front lawn. I'm so ashamed, but I'm a wino man, I can't help myself!

With a come-on like that, how could I not watch the video? But clicking on your link brought only this message:

This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement.

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Feb 27, 2011 - 12:39pm PT

"Climb and then drink fine wine"! I Agree

Richard brought a case of Fiddletown Zin with us to Josh a few weeks ago. What a fine way to celebrate a great day.

hossjulia

Social climber

Eastside

Feb 27, 2011 - 12:53pm PT

Was given a bottle of red from Ojai vineyards this past summer. Wish I could remember the variety! I think it was a pinot. Remarkable. I had a nice big balloon glass and wandered around TPR getting my co-workers to try it. Took all night to finish that bottle, it was so good everyone just sipped and went yummmmm.

There is a wine bar in Seville that served me 3 different glasses of Spanish red, and all were incredibly yummy and complex. With a full belly of Tapas, my bill was only 20E with a healthy tip for the serving gal, who knew her wine.

Rescued a '58 petite Rothschild from a crazy horse owner who was giving it to his champion stud in the silver cup he won that day. Damn, that was good, even with a little horse slobber thrown in!

Got to taste another '58 pR with roomies one night. Between 4 or 5 of us, it still took awhile to finish that bottle.

Had another really good wine given to me as a tip this past summer, but can't remember what it was. Saved the cork somewhere.

There's a new white out of SA, Trapiche Torrentes, not expensive, but a blind taste will have you wondering if it's a Zin! Try it!

I have been fortunate to have many great wine moments in my life, and I'm no aficionado!

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Mar 18, 2011 - 08:28pm PT

The Wine Rack: Turn an A cup in to double Ds AND sport your favorite beverage for yourself and your friends!

http://www.papabert.com/WineRack/Papa-Bert-WineRack-Flask-Bra.asp

adam d

climber

The Bears, CA

Mar 18, 2011 - 11:41pm PT

hossjulia...Ojai Vineyards is a good gift! They know what they are doing...

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Mar 19, 2011 - 12:06am PT

this is a local winery fom Malibou!http://www.oldplacecornell.com/

Good times!

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Jul 25, 2011 - 03:16am PT

yum!

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Jul 25, 2011 - 03:34am PT

Hey pyro, anything Italian in there?

okie

Trad climber

San Leandro, Ca

Jul 25, 2011 - 10:54am PT

One thing I've never understood about wine collections: the bottles are all full...

kpinwalla2

Social climber

Jul 25, 2011 - 11:45am PT

I had this one a couple of years ago for my 50th. Best wine I've ever had for the first two hours it was opened - then gave up the ghost.
BTW - you supertopian wine geeks should come visit us up here in the "Napa of the north" - some decent climbing nearby as well..

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Aug 10, 2011 - 01:12am PT

My absolute favorite Winery, Tobin James in Paso Robles:

self-portrait, wino at work

The manager there, Ben, gave me a couple bottles of Zin for a bunch of aerial photos. That was damn nice of him, and he didn't have to do it. I'm happy to give these photos away for nothing ( especially considering most of them stink ).

Tobin James Ballistic Zinfandel is a hell of a good wine $16.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Aug 12, 2011 - 01:34am PT

very Kool!

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Aug 14, 2011 - 03:02am PT

Lambrusco baby, and not that cheap crap that went away a while ago as it should have. I'm quaffing a really nice Lini 910 rose' right now after a hard and hot evening working in the kitchen. Mouth filling and fruity, but dry enough to leave a clean, long finish. Very refreshing. It's nice to try something different and good once in a while.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Nov 21, 2011 - 01:58am PT

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 1, 2011 - 02:13am PT

Fritz has been drinking his fair share of some kinda old vine Zinfandel they call the Seven Deadly Zinns and he seems to like it and he is kinda funny when he's whetting his whistle. Costco has it for ten something, so I bought a bottle and I am drinking it now with my wife, a bowl of spaghetti and a couple of dogs. And now, you people too. Here is my Robert Parker:

7 Deadly Zinns? Seven different growers lent grapes and passion to this wine. Why so many? Are only four not good enough? These are the top growers in Lodi. Didn't someone bury a busload of kids around there somewhere? Maybe that was Chowchilla.

On a more serious note, for me, the wine was good for what it cost. Seven vines made for very complex fruit and at 15% alc. it was dry but very well concentrated. The oak was a bit too much so I think it was an addition rather than length of aging as it seemed too artificial. The mature fruit and the oak is very discernible on the nose along with some graphite and red peppercorns. Well rounded body leads into that classic peppery Zinn finish which is longer than expected.

Overall, I would say...

The wife really likes it.

I drank it fine, but where is the acidity? I like a little more bite, but that's because I drink mostly Italian Wines. For a Cali wine it is a good buy.

Fritz, when we finally hook up, I will open an Amarone. You would really like it.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Dec 1, 2011 - 11:57am PT

I drink only local home grown wines.

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Dec 1, 2011 - 02:16pm PT

so I bought a bottle and I am drinking it now with my wife, a bowl of spaghetti and a couple of dogs.

You ate your dogs? Boris and Joe are gone? Man, how could you?

Here is my Robert Parker:

Robert Parker has almost single-handedly ruined wine.

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Dec 1, 2011 - 02:40pm PT

Robert Parker has almost single-handedly ruined wine.

How So?

mrtropy

Trad climber

Nor Cal

Dec 1, 2011 - 03:02pm PT

Wayno,

On a more serious note, for me, the wine was good for what it cost. Seven vines made for very complex fruit and at 15% alc. it was dry but very well concentrated. The oak was a bit too much so I think it was an addition rather than length of aging as it seemed too artificial. The mature fruit and the oak is very discernible on the nose along with some graphite and red peppercorns. Well rounded body leads into that classic peppery Zinn finish which is longer than expected.

I"ll tell the wine maker next time I see him. His wife is my daughter's math tutor. (you are correct about the oak) I will also let the owner know as he is one of my best friends. The first year they used 7 vineyards now the use whatever they need. I helped plant one of the original 7 vineyards(my uncle's) back in highschool. Small town here and everyone knows everyone.

Cheers jeff

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Dec 1, 2011 - 03:10pm PT

How So?

It'll take more than a sentence to answer, and I'm on deadline today, so I'll try tomorrow. In the meantime, Wayno may choose to answer -- I believe his view of this is similar to mine.

Fritz

Trad climber

Choss Creek, ID

Dec 1, 2011 - 04:49pm PT

Wayno: Thanks for giving the 7 Deadly Zins a try & a review. I really can't claim to be a wine aficionado.

Maybe an addict: would be a more appropriate description.

However! I won't drink the cheap crap!

I just hate two day hangovers after 3 glasses of cheap wine.

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 3, 2011 - 01:44am PT

Jeff, that is so cool that you know the winemaker of some wine we just happen to be talking about. I love that "small world" stuff. My hat goes off to your buddy. He seems to have a popular wine. I really enjoyed his label.

I don't want to start on trashing Parker and his ilk. When the corporate model of doing business infects the wine industry, they need guys like Parker to make it all work and seem warm and fuzzy.

I am totally biased in my personal opinions about wine, but because my job involves a lot of wine tasting I understand how to be fair in my comparisons and descriptions. Price is always a big consideration even though it says little about the wine. I drink mostly Italian wines that I have discovered to be good deals. When I drink a wine like the 7 deadly zinns and put it up against a similarly priced wine from Italy that I know to be good, I think that either the Italians aren't getting enough or the Cali Boys are getting too much.

Fritz, how often to you get to Seattle?

steveA

Trad climber

bedford,massachusetts

Dec 3, 2011 - 07:40am PT

Christie's in London, recently sold 12 bottles of wine for $178,595, from the Sir Evelyn de Rothschild's collection.

Only for the VERY rich!

Go too Christie's auction results-London, Dec 1

Can't seem to post the link-sorry

selfish man

Gym climber

Austin, TX

Dec 3, 2011 - 09:33am PT

Robert Parker is the Supertopo for wine drinkers. Nothing wrong with supertopo.

Robert Parker has almost single-handedly ruined wine.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Dec 3, 2011 - 09:59am PT

well, some personal notes here.

we like going to silver lake wine company every little once in awhile--nice tastings, gourmet food trucks on the sidewalk. they are, shall we say, both insightful and reasonable. you learn more about wine there. they put us onto a winery called derosa, located a little south of gilmore somewhere, which grows without irrigating.

otherwise, like others here, we've gotten onto central coast zins, interesting and affordable. i've also taken an interest in sierra foothills--connected nicely one afternoon with the compari at mt. brow near sonora.

just a word about italian wine, from someone whose mother helped with relatives' chianti grape harvests when she was growing up. italians have done wine for a long time, but they didn't get snobbish about it until the past 20 years, when they realized how much money could be made doing that. before that it was just wine, and maybe, once in awhile, "good wine". and they've always produced more wine than the french.

french wine being marketed in california, i never trust. there's always an angle. if you want it good, be prepared to pay, pay, pay. pierre's revenge. i just stick to california wineries i've gotten to know and love, and occasionally enjoy good things coming from australia, africa and south south america without that marketing attitude.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Dec 3, 2011 - 12:06pm PT

wine snobbs suck! just say'n

Fritz

Trad climber

Choss Creek, ID

Dec 3, 2011 - 02:40pm PT

Wayno: Seattle trips are pretty rare for me these days. First in 5 years: was fly in for a sales meeting, and fly out on the same day, last July. You need to come visit Choss Creek during the summer for fishing & adventure.

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 3, 2011 - 02:50pm PT

That sounds way better than Seattle. I have a cousin in Boise I have been meaning to visit. Is Choss Creek far from Boise?

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 3, 2011 - 03:21pm PT

french wine being marketed in california, i never trust. there's always an angle. if you want it good, be prepared to pay, pay, pay. pierre's revenge.

My brother who is French now came to visit recently. We went to BevMo to get some wine. He checked out their French reds, and was amused to see a wine that winos drink on the street in his town of St Etienne priced at over $40. But then he picked out a 2007 Grandes Serre Lirac ($14) which was very good and a 2007 Cotes Du Rhone from E. Guigal which was also quite good.

From the French I'm a fan of the Dry Loire Valley whites. Puille Fume especially. I know, some folks think that oaking Sauvignon Blanc should be a capital crime, but I love that combination of dry and pungent. To the nose there is a hint of catpiss on gravel...

Fritz

Trad climber

Choss Creek, ID

Dec 3, 2011 - 05:19pm PT

Lots of wineries near Boise.

Some of them are turning out some pretty good stuff.

Further evidence that Idaho’s wine industry has arrived: Gem State winemakers took home a record 47 medals at the prestigious Pacific Northwest Wine Summit held last week at Timberline Lodge in Oregon. It's the largest wine competition in the Northwest.

The Idaho Gold Medal Winners:

Cinder Winery's Melanie Krause won gold and Best Rosé for her 2008 Cinder Rosé ($14.99);

Veteran Winemaker Greg Koenig won big, taking a total of 9 medals, including gold for his Koenig Cuvee Amelia Reserve Syrah ($50) and the Bitner Vineyard's Riesling ($12) which he also makes.

John Danielson of Vale Wine Co. also took gold for his first vintage 2008 Riesling ($14).

Sawtooth winemaker Bill Murray won gold for his Reserve Cabernet ($24.99).

Choss Creek is 90 miles SE of Boise. Fishing near here is best in the fall, but a local slogan is: "the fish are always biting."

Another nearby community hosts The Rockchuck Derby, complete with a Miss Rockchuck contest.
Luckily, no local vintners have thought of making "Rockchuck Rose" from the rockchucks offed in the Derby.

selfish man

Gym climber

Austin, TX

Dec 3, 2011 - 07:41pm PT

When eating in restaurants in France, I've never ordered anything but the house wine. Tend to be excellent, cheaper than water, and go with the food perfectly. As for the big names (classified Medoc chateaus, Chateauneuf du Pape etc.) they are often cheaper and easier to find in the US. It's not true that they are overpriced, as compared to, say, Napa Valley. In fact, with some judicious shopping (Costco!) they are often better buys (not to mention better wines).

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Dec 3, 2011 - 09:06pm PT

From the French I'm a fan of the Dry Loire Valley whites.

Add my vote to that. The Loire Valley produces some very nice Cab Franc, as well, but for me the best of the region is the Vouvray.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 3, 2011 - 09:24pm PT

Yeah I served up some Barton & Gustier 08 Vouvray the other night. It was just fine.

nature

climber

back in Tuscon Aridzona....

Dec 3, 2011 - 10:26pm PT

Rare Red

Trader Joes had it at $5 a bottle. It'd be a $50 bottle out to eat.

I bought a case and a half.

mrtropy

Trad climber

Nor Cal

Dec 3, 2011 - 10:54pm PT

I have been to lots of wine shows around the west with my friend's winery, Michal David. He always supports local wineries in the area we are at be it Colorado or Idaho and the wineries from our area (Lodi). Lots of good wine out there.

Wayno, let me know next time there is a big wine show up there and i will introduce you.

I still prefer beer over wine.

Favorite wine quote "without beer there would be no wine" David Philips

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Dec 4, 2011 - 12:20am PT

Yeah I served up some Barton & Gustier 08 Vouvray the other night. It was just fine.

Really good Vouvray will age for decades. Absolutely amazing stuff.

But back to Mtnmun's request for an expanation of my comment that Robert Parker has ruined wine...

The best way I can explain it is via a climbing metaphor. Think about the climbing world of 25 years ago. Thousands of little areas scattered all over the world, with millions of climbs on different kinds of rock, put up in different styles. Slabs. Cracks. Limestone edges. Frozen waterfalls. Granite. Bolted sport climbs. Death choss. Alpine strolls and alpine nightmares. Some are really good, some are unarguably crappy. But what the hell -- you like overhanging face climbs, I like long moderate crack lines, she likes ice, and he likes hard aid. Something for everyone. And no matter how much you climb, there is still more different stuff out there than you can climb in a lifetime.

Now, imagine that someone comes along and says: "Hmmm. Lotta noobs out there who don't know where to climb or what kind of climbing is worth doing, so I'll start publishing notes that will help them avoid wasting their valuable vacation time. I'll give the kind of climbing I think is worth doing many stars, so people will know what is worth their time and effort.

Now, in climbing terms, it would end there. Lots of guidebooks out there have star ratings, but other than causing line-ups on some climbs, it doesn't really affect things much. The fact that some writer prefers slabs to cracks, or thinks sport climbing is stupid, hasn't really had that much impact.

But in the world of wine, the impact was huge. Parker, through his original "Baltimore Wine Advocate" newsletter, was the first to offer a numerical grading system to rate the quality of wines. For whatever reason -- probably a desire by Americans to feel sophisticated -- it caught on, and over the next couple of decades it became huge. People with no knowledge of wine felt that if they bought the highest-rated wine they could afford (whether $10 or $100) they were getting the "best" wine for the price.

This pushed up sales of wines with high Parker ratings.

Now that, in itself, is no bad thing. Giving Crimson Chrysalis 3 stars had the negative effect of directing hordes of people onto that route, making it a much less pleasant experience, but had the positive effect of ensuring that you could have Ginger Cracks (on the next buttress) to yourself. And Ginger Cracks is arguably a better climb, so you could say the star system worked in favor of people who appreciated better climbs.

But what if Ginger Cracks was a product? The manufacturer would look at the success of his competitor, and say: "Shit! CC is getting all the traffic. I'm going to remake Ginger Cracks so it climbs just like CC. Then more people will want to climb it."

And pretty soon, climbs everywhere will become more and more the same, as their owners chisel and dynamite them to match the climbs that some guru has given the highest ratings.

Okay, that's not going to happen with climbs, but it has happened with wine. An entire industry has developed based on the concept of improving a winery's Parker score. Consultants are brought in, chemists are hired, additives are added, oak chips are weighed and measured...

And wines become more and more and more the same. Jammy, oaky, manipulated products. Yes, "products."

In a way, it reminds me of the death-spiral of beer in the US, as a few giants with big advertising budgets convinced drinkers that the less beer tasted of anything, the better it was. Thirty-odd years ago the rebellion against that corporate blandness started up, and today we have the wonderful West Coast beer renaissance that makes this the best place in the world to be a beer drinker.

Fortunately, there are still winemakers who care about making wine they actually like, rather than MacWine that will get 5 more Parker points and therefore sell better in Safeway or Trader Joe; and wine drinkers and a few wine merchants who love the quality and variety that Parkerization destroys.

So, yes, Robert Parker, for all his good intentions, has almost destroyed wine. In the end, I don't think he will succeed, but it's a scary thought.

My $0.02 on the subject.

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Dec 4, 2011 - 12:37am PT

Thanks Ghost, that was well written and educational as well. So I assume the Parker rating is what Wine Spectator scores are all about. As a consumer I sometimes will purchase based on that rating if I am not familiar with the winery. Other times, I just know what I like.

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 4, 2011 - 01:05am PT

^^^

^^^

Well said, David.

^^^

Jeff, that is a real cool painting. It would make a nice label.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Dec 4, 2011 - 02:17am PT

My homie is bringing me a magnum of 2000 Petrus from London. I'll bring it to the next Facelift.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Dec 4, 2011 - 02:19am PT

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 4, 2011 - 04:07am PT

O.K. here's a tip for you. Palazzo Della Torre from the Veneto. The maker is Allegrini, a respectable producer, and you can get it at Costco. I think it would appeal to the the West Coast palette and it is usually around fiddeen bucks. Give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised.

selfish man

Gym climber

Austin, TX

Dec 4, 2011 - 01:05pm PT

Yep, I've bought it at Costco before, guided by Parker's score of 90, relative to its price (Damn you Parker). It's good.

rurprider

Trad climber

Mt. Rubidoux

Dec 4, 2011 - 01:25pm PT

Silver Oak and Kendall-Jackson are hard to beat. A bit pricier than Jude's Lake Sonoma '02, but well worth the $$.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Dec 4, 2011 - 01:34pm PT

Ghost,
Well said. But methinks the issue is that many or most people are unwilling
to do anything on their own including educating their palates. It is far
easier to Tweet your palate especially if it impresses your dinner guests.
"Ooo, la-la, Ten-Buck Tuck! We are sooo honneured!"

selfish man

Gym climber

Austin, TX

Dec 4, 2011 - 02:38pm PT

Likewise, everyone should learn laws of gravity from firsthand experience by jumping off a cliff. Books single handedly ruin knowledge

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Dec 4, 2011 - 03:29pm PT

But methinks the issue is that many or most people are unwilling
to do anything on their own including educating their palates.

There's certainly some of that. Same as with climbing -- a lot of people think routes come from guidebooks, and they can't even imagine going to a crag or a mountain without a guidebook (or printouts from MP or ST). And that's fine. But there's sure a lot more to climbing than ticking routes on some other person's "Best Of" list. Those willing to put down their guidebooks will find a wealth of experience waiting for them.

As to wine, well, there's nothing wrong with Parker doing what he did. And nothing wrong with many people never exploring beyond Parker scores (or Wine Spectator scores). The problem is that so many winemakers, particularly in the US, but also now in Italy, France, Chile, Argentina, and Australia, are making wine with the goal of high Parker scores, rather than with the goal of making wine that comes from their particular patch of earth.

D

selfish man

Gym climber

Austin, TX

Dec 4, 2011 - 05:47pm PT

Interesting point about RP influencing winemakers. May well be true. Then again, it doesn't take Parker to start a trend. Just look at the whole Napa phenomenon: consistently overpriced wines that are all alike, most getting deservedly poor ratings from RP yet having a huge following.

Another point is that wine making is often much more constrained not by the critics' tastes but by strict appellation regulations. Multiple French classification systems all insure you get what you expect, not something different even if different potentially means good. Much experimentation and exciting new development happen outside the classified chateaus and, if anything, Parker is responsible for bringing those more obscure and interesting wines to our attention, making winemaking more democratic...

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Dec 4, 2011 - 07:26pm PT

We really enjoyed the Ancient Peaks Cab out of Paso Robles last night. For $17.00 it was a prize.

Here is my painting of Loma Prieta Winery in the Santa Cruz Mountains, on the cover of a recent issue of Wine and Travel Magazine.

Also on Burrell School's Old School Cabernet:

Cheers, Jude

http://www.judebischoff.com

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Dec 4, 2011 - 08:00pm PT

Cielo is a local Malibu wine. Good stuff.

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 5, 2011 - 01:38am PT

Favorite wine quote "without beer there would be no wine" David Philips

Interesting quote. I wonder what he meant. I get a few things coming to mind but since Philips is a winemaker I'm kinda curious as to what he is getting at.

The guys I drink wine with are all in the business of selling wine and most of them specifically Italian wines. Ghost is the only exception. We just share similar tastes. About half of them are or were in kitchens and a different half is actually from Italy. Once in a while, someone who drinks mostly domestic wines will show up at one of our gatherings and get pleasantly schooled.

I feel sorry for some of them because they now know they love Italian wine but are totally confused as to what to look for. Out of the 2500 grape varieties claimed as native by the Italians, only half of them have been DNA typed to certify that they are indeed distinct. 600 of those are grown commercially and then you factor in the blends, which Italians love to do and they are good at it and you have a lot of variety. Compare that to France where 99% of the wines are from 15 varieties or California where 99% are from maybe 10 varieties and you can see how confusing it can get. Add to that a totally confusing labeling morass and wow, no wonder people don't drink more Italian wine, the learning curve is impossible.

See, now even I am bored. I could go on and on but I don't like to do that unless I know someone is interested, so if anyone wants to know more, please speak up.

The most important thing I can say about Italian wine is food. I don't know how many wines I have been ambivalent about by themselves that were superb with the right food. And that is why Italians wines tend to be more acidic on the palette Than domestic stuff. We drink a lot more without considering food.

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Dec 5, 2011 - 11:43am PT

See, now even I am bored. I could go on and on but I don't like to do that unless I know someone is interested, so if anyone wants to know more, please speak up.

And therein is nub of this thread. Ditto for threads on "What's the best beer?", "Who's the best guitar player?" or any of the dozens of other "best of" threads.

People post variations on "I love [wine name]. It's the best frickin' wine on the planet." What does that mean? How many wines has this poster drunk? Is s/he someone who really should have said "I've been drinking wine for all of three months now, and don't know sh#t, and my opinion isn't worth anything but I'm going to post anyway"?

Look at Wayne's posts. He's been dealing with wine professionally for ever, and yet never says he knows what is best, or that his favorite should be everyone's favorite.

Personally, I'd be happy to hear more.

Steve L

Gym climber

SUR

Dec 5, 2011 - 12:02pm PT

Interesting quote. I wonder what he meant.

When I worked in production, we used to throw that quote around often. We drank a lot of beer at the winery. Usually at the end of the day, but sometimes during our shift too; especially when a long crush season day turned to night. Nursing a beer was a good way to pass the time while you waited for one of your tanks to pump over. A 40oz with a burrito from the Mexican market in town was a pretty common lunch too. Yup, beer helps make lots of good wine!

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 5, 2011 - 03:07pm PT

^^^

That makes sense. I thought it was something a bit more esoteric.

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Dec 5, 2011 - 03:21pm PT

^^^^
With a twist -- I was drinking wine while making beer yesterday.

Steve L

Gym climber

SUR

Dec 5, 2011 - 03:37pm PT

FWIW, I have no idea if that's what the original quote was referring to, it was just what we used to justify our own drinking on the job habits!

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Dec 5, 2011 - 03:43pm PT

Every Thursday my boss and several of the local wine distributors sample wines. It starts in the late afternoon and goes until early evening. I am just starting my work shift and I often find it difficult to spit, especially if they have a winner.

phylp

Trad climber

Millbrae, CA

Feb 5, 2013 - 05:15pm PT

Wow, this has been dormant for a while!

I just got back from a couple of days down in the Paso Robles area. It was our first visit there for wine tasting.

We tasted a lot of good red wine and bought enough of what we liked to last us a couple of years. As was stated above, a lot of the wines of these varietals are best when matched with food - and since we so rarely eat anything but salad for dinner our reds last a long time.

We brought home:
2010 Justin Justification (cab/merlot/cab franc)
2010 Adelaida Roussane (a rhone white - the only white we bought)
2010 Adelaida 100% Syrah (I'm the syrah fan in the house)
2009 Adelaida "The Tribe" (mourvedre/grenache/cab franc/syrah)
2005 Adelaida Reserve Cab/Syrah
2010 Chateau Margene Cielo Rosso
2009 Mooney GSM (mourvedre/syrah/grenache)

All very yummy! That area is a fun winter destination. We spent most of the time we were there hiking so we only had time for three tasting rooms. I'll definately go back again. Next time the first place on my list will be the Paso Wine Center downtown, which has those taste-o-matic machines and a selection of about 50 wines to taste.

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Feb 20, 2013 - 09:52pm PT

from my cellar today.

Hmmmm. You wouldn't mind posting your address, would you? You know, so I can hire someone to break in and relieve you of some of the stuff that's taking up space in your cellar...

phylp

Trad climber

Millbrae, CA

Feb 21, 2013 - 12:39am PT

M-man, you are a lucky man.

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Mar 21, 2013 - 01:58am PT

hey there say, all.... wow, fine wine share here...

i was so very glad that my folks never 'over did it' as to drinking...
only SOME at supper, or for a small holiday visit...

thus:
i enjoy wine, and such... this is a fun share, thank very much...

just happened to see this, while looking for a thread, just a bit
ago--i missed a lot lately, as i been busy... :)

used to see all the neat wine country when me and the folks, and or family, went for rides...

my other brothers, too, of CHAPMAN DESIGNS had designed quite a few homes in areas where folks had neat vinyards... reminds me of nice views...
thanks again, all...

Jerry Dodrill

climber

Sebastopol

Nov 3, 2013 - 10:59pm PT

Bump!

This one is going down nice and easy tonight

2010 Taylor Ridge Pinot Noir from Bohéme Wines.
http://bohemewines.com/store/item/2010-taylor-ridge-pinot-noir

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Nov 4, 2013 - 12:41am PT

Love this one.

Mtnmun

Trad climber

Top of the Mountain Mun

Mar 19, 2014 - 12:38am PT

This weekend I had the priviledge of doing an art show at my long time bro's winery, 3 Steves.

One of Livermore's newest wineries, 3 Steves, won the Red Sweepstakes title for its 2011 Cienega Valley Ancient Vine Zinfandel ($31) at the 2014 San Francisco Chronicle International Wine Competition. They competed against 5300 entries.

http://www.mercurynews.com/libations/ci_25106971/livermore-winery-wins-best-show-pinot-paradise-comes