Discussion Topic |
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Anguish
Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 19, 2007 - 01:15pm PT
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The following is a federal report
Yosemite National Park (CA)
Hiker Dies In Fall From Half Dome
Hirofumi Nohara, 37, slipped and fell while ascending the Half Dome cables on the afternoon of June 16th. Nohara, a Japanese citizen in the United States on a work visa, was hiking with four friends when the fall occurred. He fell approximately 300 feet from the left side of the cables and was pronounced dead at the scene. An investigation into the cause of the slip and subsequent fall is underway. The Half Dome hike is a round-trip hike of 17 miles and considered extremely strenuous. Hikers gain 4,800 feet of elevation along the hike, which passes such highlights as Vernal Fall, Nevada Fall, and Half Dome itself. A series of metal cables are placed along the steep shoulder of the dome to assist hikers to the summit.
See more at:
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/13701680p-14289760c.html
(Sorry, maybe should have been added to the other thread/s)
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jun 19, 2007 - 01:35pm PT
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the comments below the article majid posted are sad. Sure, this is a tragedy, but everyone seems to want more regulation, comfort, safety, etc.
There's clearly an entitelment for the summit, and there are a lot of people who aren't willing to adequately prepare for the hike. Been up there a couple times, and it seems like 30% of the people on top were just totally spent. Well guess what--now you have to hike 8 miles back down.
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Jun 19, 2007 - 02:05pm PT
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In today's Chronicle, page B1:
Deadly trek up Half Dome
The part that catches my attention is:
"Nohara was not doing anything unsafe, according to the initial investigation."
Um, the guy was a few hundred feet up a 50-degree slope. His life depended on using his feet properly and keeping a grip on the cable. Wasn't that at least a tiny bit unsafe?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 19, 2007 - 02:14pm PT
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Ask most of the people who do that hike whether they consider themselves adventurous and they'll say yes, but most don't appreciate the implication of taking responsibility for one's actions.
They want a guarantee.
The only guarantee available however is that all of us will die, but that most of us can have a hand in determining when.
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Jun 20, 2007 - 03:07pm PT
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Another article, this time in the San Jose Mercury News.
I've already emailed the writer about the factual error in this sentence:
"Hikers are discouraged from scaling the mountain in winter, when the cables are removed."
The cables are still there in the winter, only the stanchions are removed.
I question this statement:
"Since 1971, nine people have died in falls from the Half Dome cables..."
Werner, is that true?
I find it easy to believe that nine people have fallen from Half Dome since 1971. But nine on the cables alone? That doesn't sound right. I'll check my copy of _Off the Wall_ tonight.
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E.L. "One"
Big Wall climber
Lancaster, California
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Jun 20, 2007 - 03:20pm PT
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Boku,
"But nine on the cables alone?" I would have agreed with you until I did Snake Dike a few years back and got to the summit to see no fewer than 250 people, most of whom I couldn't imagine how they could even survive the hike. Thunder and lightening came in, and I saw an absolute stampede to the cables with people freaking out and bear-hugging the cable in panic while descending. I ended up downclimbing and rapping on the outside of the cables and looked up from the bottom to see a scene straight out of the "Poseidon Adventure". No one slipped and fell that day, but there were dozens who could have.
Cracko
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 20, 2007 - 03:21pm PT
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sfgate yesterday:
"An average of about 10 to 12 people die in Yosemite each year, but very few fatalities are on Half Dome, Freeman said. Since 1971 there have been nine falls, including Nohara, but only three of them were fatal, all within the past year. She said Nohara's death was the first on Half Dome where other factors, such as bad weather, did not play a part."
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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Jun 20, 2007 - 03:24pm PT
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Why not modify the cables to be a via-ferrata system? Kind of like in the Dolomites (minus the bar on top).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_ferrata
(also, if it's only nine deaths since 1971, that's sensationalist news - nine people die every few hours in alcohol related car wrecks.)
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 20, 2007 - 03:26pm PT
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THREE.
More people have probably died on the Manure Pile.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 20, 2007 - 03:37pm PT
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"Perhaps they should have to watch a film first or else participate some other form of information conveyance so that they truly realize what they are getting into before they start."
Everyone keeps talking about signage and shizz, but when you're actually there, the mountain sorta tells the tale better than any sign. It's big and steep and really friggin obvious that if you fall you will probably die...and if you let go you will probably fall. Hence the large #'s who stand at the base after their epic trudge, shake their head, and head back down.
Does anyone really think that the folks who passed this year would have chosen to not go up or would have tried harder to not let go if they'd read a sign?
Remember that one of the people who perished was an accomplished ultrarunner for whom this was part of her favorite run...and who chose to continue w/ the cables down in bad weather. As tragic as her fall was, I can't imagine that this was a person who would prefer to be harnessed or who would have changed her approach if she'd read a warning sign.
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Indianclimber
climber
Las Vegas
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Jun 20, 2007 - 03:41pm PT
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Two weeks ago my inlaws watched a guy fall from the chain area at
Angels Landing in Zion ,unfortunately these things will all add up to restrictions and closures eventually.
As Ron says they all expect the Disneyland safety guarantee
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 20, 2007 - 03:55pm PT
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Lois, have you actually been to the cables and still were left with the impression that they were as safe as the Green Dragon Valley Floor tour b/c you didn't get enough signage? I'm guessing no.
A cable on a 50 degree slope is a sign in the international language for "You could die."
IIRC, there is a sign at the base telling that it's dangerous, watch the kids, don't do it in the rain, etc.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 20, 2007 - 04:13pm PT
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"Ever been to Yellowstone? By the time you are done reading all the signs and the guilt trips posted everywhere, it is amazing anyone would even leave their room."
That sounds hideous. I'm glad that the tactic w/ the HD trail has been to encourage people to stick their neck out and live a little.
An interesting stat would be the life expenctancy of someone who visits Yosemite and does the cables vs. the life expectance someone who does not. I bet the cable folks have the non-hiking Miwok village visiters by a mile.
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nate23
Trad climber
c-ville, virginia
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Jun 20, 2007 - 04:54pm PT
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give me a break. I went down the cables for the first time last week -- in my bare feet. They are what they are.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 20, 2007 - 04:55pm PT
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Jusy because something's *dangerous* doesn't mean it's unsafe. Driving and climbing, when practiced responsibly, aren't unsafe. Same with The Cables.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jun 20, 2007 - 05:16pm PT
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ONE person has died on the cables in clear conditions when the cables were up. This fatality, while of course sad, was a freak accident. The NPS should do nothing in connection with the cables. While I understand that some visitors to the Grand Canyon might not be aware that you rapidly descend into a desert, and that it's a long way back out; and I also understand that visitors might need to be warned that Yellowstone hot pots are hot enough to kill, but the dangers of falling off a cliff seem readily apparent.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jun 20, 2007 - 06:18pm PT
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At least two people have died on the Green Dragon ride and they don't warn you about that at all ...
I've been down the cables a bunch of times and it is always a lord of the flies kinda deal. Kinda, like, Melissa said, if you can be there, look at that, and not know it's dangerous you're defintiely serving donuts in another dimension. The only recourse is to turn around and hike back to the valley and have someone drive you home because you certainly aren't aware enough of consequences to drive a car.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 20, 2007 - 10:18pm PT
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Sorry that a life was lost and loved ones grieve.
Too bad that we have such a crisis management mentality towards things. IF some NPS folks feel they MUST do something for the sake of safety and public opinion, more signage is probably the least intrusive solution.
"Notice: It is against the law of gravity to let go of the cables. Punishable by injury or death. This activity is just as hazardous as it looks. Now go have fun."
Peace
Karl
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 20, 2007 - 10:23pm PT
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Just like a burger joint that tells you how many billion served there should be a simple sign that gives the current fatal tally at the bottom of the cables.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 20, 2007 - 10:34pm PT
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"Just like a burger joint that tells you how many billion served there should be a simple sign that gives the current fatal tally at the bottom of the cables."
There's something quite similar at the base of Mount Washington, in New Hampshire. Since 1849 135 persons have died on its slopes.
http://www.mountwashington.org/about/visitor/surviving.php
There is also strongly-worded signage at nearly every trailhead, and at treeline:
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 20, 2007 - 10:43pm PT
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I think that it's awesome that people from all walks of life can go up to the top of half dome via the cables.
It's a great benefit to society and it enlivens the soul.
If the cables were not there, believe me you would see 100 times the amount of deaths and injuries sustained by the over zealous and over adventurous folks who will push their inexperienced curiosity to try and summit it.
Leave the cables alone!
Get a life ..........
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 20, 2007 - 11:23pm PT
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Actually Werner you make a pretty good argument for their removal.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 20, 2007 - 11:29pm PT
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Half Dome like some kind of giant bug zapper for the vertically stupid. The concessionaire could position a remains recovery crew with spatulas.
Why are we obligated to protect people from themselves?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:45am PT
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The hike itself is not trivial, so people who actually make it to the cables are in some sort of shape... it is pretty obvious where you are and what the situation is... and you do hang it way over the edge, at least for a normal hiking person's experience.
You would have to intentionally delude yourself into thinking that it is safe because the signage insufficiently warned you of the danger... it's not like getting out of your car to look at a buffalo 10 yards away.
The signage is not going to stop someone from doing something stupid. There is a sign on the way up to the toe of El Cap, I sometimes wonder who could be enlightened by its admonition... geeze, you can feel it just standing there!
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:55am PT
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I'm with Werner.
My Cousin (who in 19 days will be as old as I am right now) and her two Kids went up The Cables a couple years ago and listening to her describe her experience made me proud to be An American (or something like that).
Although I have been climbing with both of her Kids (my First Cousins, Once Removed) there in NO F#%KING WAY she would have even made the hike out there (let alone tie in with a Doofus like Me) if The Cables hadn't been there.
I say leave the Goddamn Cables as they are and watch your ass as you always do.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:07am PT
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slobmonster posted a picture of a sign I know well from my time winter climbing in the White Mountains... there have been times that I have been up there and it has been a literal fight against death. Somedays go by without a hitch. But winter up there is just like the sign sez.
On July I hiked up Mt. Washington with Debbie. It was lovely, big puffy clouds moving lazily across the sky, something like 70º F, the shrubs green. We got to the "Alpine Garden," and I commented that the last time I saw the little wooden sign it had been knocked over in the wind and lay beneath 3" of clear ice, and it was 6º F at noon with a 30 mph wind blowing. We got up a little farther and she asked why there were so many mounds of rock, really big cairns, stacked up so closely. I told her about the time I was up there and you couldn't see the next one 20' away. The small area above Huntington revine so inviting and comfortable in the summer, seemed at times to be the most remote place on earth in winter when the sh#t was hitting the fan.
People die up there, I don't think the signs make much of a difference.
It is a matter of personal responsibility and being aware of where you are. If you don't accept that responsibility, and don't know the situation, you're in for it no matter how many signs there are.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:53am PT
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Ed wrote
"It is a matter of personal responsibility and being aware of where you are. If you don't accept that responsibility, and don't know the situation, you're in for it no matter how many signs there are."
Absolutely amigo, I could not agree more. I consider a sign such as pictured --a yellow one-- much as I do the yellow signs on the highway that suggest a safe driving speed. With my knowledge of the road, current conditions, I may choose to exceed the posted suggested speed. But on an unfamiliar road, at night, in the desert, when I can't see the turn up ahead, I appreciate the notice. Fair warning.
That we worry about the inherent "liability" of NPS for posting such useful information smacks of our collective fear of litigation. We fear that after "the worst happens" we all might lose access. (Perhaps an attorney more familiar with such matters can chime in here.) Maybe my Yankee nature is resistant to such an admission.
Of course terrain can be dangerous. Slot canyons in a rainstorm, slickrock singletrack that drops off to nothing, Mt Washington on a fine winter's day that Ed describes. Bad things sometimes just happen.
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curlie
Trad climber
SLO, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 02:01am PT
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More warning signs? You mean like this one?
Death happens. Unfortunate, yes. Anyone's responsibility? No.
I mean, sh#t, I could poke my eye out with my toothbrush. There should be a warning sign!
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quasitrad
Trad climber
Corvallis, OR
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Jun 21, 2007 - 02:15am PT
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Right, curlie. It's very sad to hear stories like this. But, if he had died on the drive up there it would never have made the news.
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Bargainhunter
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 05:26am PT
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When I climbed Snake Dike about 10 years ago, I thought the gnarliest part was descending the cables. There were so many tourists ascending, I couldn't believe that the park service was allowing these people up the peak. I felt sure that I was going to witness someone die. The cables are not a route for the timid, weak trail walker...one slip and, unless you happen to grab a cable support, you are toast.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 06:10am PT
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i've climbed the cables once .. and descended them twice .. (did snake dike) ..
.. my experience as a hiker was pretty scary .. if it hadn't been for the group of cute girls behind me .. i would have turned back .. slippery, and steep..
.. coming down isn't nearly as bad ..
.. this led to my different approach when descending the cables after snake dike .. i kept the climbing shoes on .. and clipped 2 slings to the cables just in case .. pretty safe if you ask me .. so i don't see why other folks couldn't do that too ..
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:35pm PT
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:39pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:42pm PT
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Well, I've now read over a thousand posts on this subject in various forums (the SFgate forum was particularly interesting....and long), and I admit to a fair amount of astonishment by what some have done. For example one person posted (paraphrased)
*We got to the cables, and it was obviously very dangerous and a disaster waiting to happen. My 14 yo niece and I got to the top ok*
And this sort of thing is repeated by people over and again!
They clearly know it is dangerous, they have no special climbing skills, and they climb it anyway. Doh!
I cannot believe that these folks will be deterred by a sign.
However, it is clear that there has been a marked increase in people going up in the last few years, and this logjam creates an environment where one slightly nutty person, acting out, can really set the stage for disaster.
I've been trying to think of what can be done that will actually have an effect, not require millions of dollars and decades of NEPAs, and will be simple to maintain.
I find most of the suggestions a little absurd, as they are in reaction to this fall, but would not have altered this outcome....for example, putting in a telephone at the start of the cables.
It's real simple....don't let go of the cable. Ever. (Just....like....the....belay....rope.)
So, I'm leaning towards an education process. Maybe 2-3 times a day, run a video on climbing HD, in an appropriate venue. Cover the basics, cover the judgement issues, cover the safety issues, cover early starts to eliminate having to abandon due to crowds on the cables. Paint it dark and miserable, and that'll cut down on the hordes. It'll be entertaining to the folks not doing a climb, also.
There really seems to be one real issue, and that is the volume of people....but it is only a volume problem for about 4 hours/day. The other 20 hours a day, no problem. So, it is really just a matter of spreading the people out.
Yep, the first step is always education.
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troutboy
Trad climber
Newark, DE
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:45pm PT
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"I can only speak to how I think. Call me naive but I tended to think that if "they" let people do it (by the zillions, no less) it must be OK and safe. When things ARE dangerous, we are warned ad infinitum not to do it - for example, not to "hot pot" at Yellowstone i.e. swim in thermal pools or else walk off the trails. They warn you zillions of times not to do it. Same with the buffalo - you are virtually paralyzed with fear for all the warnings they give you about not getting near them. At the Grand Canyon, the Bright Angel trail is filled with warnings advising you to turn back if you do not have adequate water or else if you are not in good shape. They really drive home the point."
This is an interesting point. Especially here on the East Coast you are either repeatedly warned about everything (even if it really isn't dangerous), or prevented from doing something dangerous by a fence, a gate, or other barrier.
In the west, it seems different. Out there (especially outside of the NPS arena), you are allowed to do potentially dangerous things without major warnings. It's very easy, from an average East Coast touron perspective, to assume exactly what is stated above - if there is no warning, it must be safe to do.
Tim S.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:49pm PT
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An optional "training video" might be a great thing for those who felt like they needed it. I'm not sure you could teach anyone much that common sense wouldn't dictate, but it might make people feel better.
"However, it is clear that there has been a marked increase in people going up in the last few years, and this logjam creates an environment where one slightly nutty person, acting out, can really set the stage for disaster."
On this point, I have to say that we're protected by the same thing that keeps the vast majority of gun owners from opening fire on crowds every time they have a bad day or iritated drivers from heading up the wrong side of the freeway after a bad day of work. To kill everyone else, you pretty much need to kill yourself. And the evidence would suggest that most people don't really want to do either.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:52pm PT
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I don't remember enough about those cables to know if they are dicey or not. And I had a pack on my back, two ropes and a rack. Is that thing really 50 degrees? That seems a bit steep.
Nevertheless the Park Service is in a sticky place when people keep dying on the thing. You can't very well shut it down -- who would ever enforce such a thing, and how, when folks are scaling the far steeper face just arond the corner? Maybe some kind of mandatory harness and clip-in system, like in Europe. Or a permit or background check. Can't say but I guess the deaths have to be addressed somehow. Or do they?
JL
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cleo
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:52pm PT
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The Libertarian in me says: Let people make their own decisions (and the park service is certainly not liable nor obligated to do anything). Having said that, I think there are 2 major differences on the cables from when they were first installed.
1 - Slippery, worn rock surface
2 - Far greater numbers of visitors (many of whom may be not thinking reasonably after sclepping themselves up 8 miles of trail and observing "everyone else is doing it").
Would it hurt to install a few additional wooden steps?
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:04pm PT
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A sign at the base of the cables is pretty worthless, people can see the cables and what they are getting into at that point.
What probably should be improved is the warning wherever official descriptions of the hike are. In the visitior guide, etc. I think they do a good job of describing the challenge of the hike, (distance and vertical) but they could add more details about the cables,
e.g. WARNING: the final leg of the journey involves hiking up 1300 feet of rock at an angle of 45 degrees. Cables handrails and wooden steps every 10 feet help, but a slip could result in injury or death.
Then have a good picture of the cables.
Not only may this save another life, but would probably help the much larger number of people who hike so long to get there, then turn around because they are unprepared for the challenge of the cables. I'm sure a lot of people get all the way up there, and then continue up the cables since they didn't want to have wasted all that hiking, better to send them up Upper Yosemite Falls or something.
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wildone
climber
The Astroman of 5.9
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:06pm PT
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46 degrees.
There will never be a video, more signs, or a phone at the base, and it has nothing to do with liability.
It has everything to do with the interpretation of the wilderness act, and exactly what the "minimum implement" to do the job is. If there were more warning signs there, there would have to be signs at every creek crossing on every trail in the wilderness.
However, it is a bit of a juxtaposition to not want to install signs for want of preserving people's wilderness experience whilst permanent cables are right there, obviously un-natural.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:08pm PT
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I could be wrong, but I think more people may die slipping off the Falls trail b/c it seems harmless.
I know what you're saying about warning people in advance so they don't do something they're not up for to avoid the slunk down 8 miles of trail w/ that "I bailed" feeling.
Funny thing is, I bet many of our hardest/scariest pitches got led when we realized we were in over our heads but felt like we'd come all that way and didn't really want to bail.
JL...Roper sez 46 degrees for the original route. Don't know how accurate that is or how it relates to the steepest parts of the cables.
wildone...I don't catch your drift. There are signs all over the wilderness in Yosemite. Is there supposed to be an offical ban on that?
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:18pm PT
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If you change the cables, what's next? A guard rail along the NW Face? I mean, how many tourons have fallen off that diving board?
There's nothing to be done or changed, because of one certainty... People will find ever more creative and astonishing ways to die.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:24pm PT
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Is there a pic somewhere of the cables? I've never been on 'em.
Edit: If you google 'half dome cables', there's alot of pics. Doesn't seem too bad, especially with two cables, I thought there was just one cable.
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wildone
climber
The Astroman of 5.9
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:48pm PT
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Melissa-don't shhot the messenger, I was merely relating why the NPS won't add signs to half dome. As for signs all over the backcountry, a long time ago, the nps decided that trail mileage signs were the "necessary minimum tool" for some reason. People have come to appreciate and depend on them, so they would be hard to remove, politically. The other sign I've seen is at the top of the falls telling people of the hazards (duh).
Other than that, I haven't seen all these signs you speak of, and I've covered about 650 of the 840 or so trail miles in Yosemite.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:58pm PT
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I'm not shooting...just saying that I don't understand b/c every trail that I've been on (and then some) has had signage. I have mostly only been on the better traveled trails. There are the metal way point signs, occasional bear signs, an interestign one warning of the drop off by Wash. Column that I've heard of but haven't seen, the falls warning sign...in any case, enough signs that I didn't realize that there was a ban on them.
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tonym
climber
Oklahoma
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Jun 21, 2007 - 02:01pm PT
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"Common sense is not so common."
~Voltaire
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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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Jun 21, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
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Euro-style tram :)
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 03:06pm PT
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Someone asked for a pic. This one was in today's SF Chronicle, it supposedly shows the cable route about 30 minutes before the latest fatality.
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wildone
climber
The Astroman of 5.9
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Jun 21, 2007 - 03:18pm PT
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Not a ban, Melissa, but merely a guiding management principle.
Most likely, those signs are a holdover from a previous era when the park management had different ideas regarding wilderness management (ie: firefalls, etc)
Sometimes, if SAR thinks a sign is necessary, they will put one up (like the top of Washington Collumn)
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couchmaster
climber
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Jun 21, 2007 - 03:22pm PT
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Leave us our choice, freedoms and personal responsibility. If we F* up it's sad but thats life.
On a similar vein, did not our very own ST poster "Oli" not make the first 1 day ascent/descent of the cable route using a few pitons and hobnail boots back in the 50's?
The 1850's. I was perusing his books but did not find this historical info. (is that Ron O in the back over there frantically waving his hand now?)
So I don't know what all the complaining is about.
BTW, last time I came down them, I thought that there was about 3 sharp lil broken steel cables too many sticking out for the unwary's hand to get stuck on. I thought that gloves would have been nice. Had I not been too lazy to carry them up.....
I wonder if the reaction to getting stuck by a sharp object could lead to a death?
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Anguish
Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2007 - 04:19pm PT
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Speaking of Yellowstone bison and NPS warnings:
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Jun 21, 2007 - 04:58pm PT
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At birth - everyone should be issued a card that states "Life is Lethal - Proceed at Your Own Risk".
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 21, 2007 - 05:02pm PT
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WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just not today.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 05:02pm PT
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They already have warning signs, so why not add one to underscore the danger of the cable route?
MELISSA THE WALLRESS Edit: This is supposedly the warning sign on the Falls Trail:
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 06:33pm PT
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I just got a call back from NPS Yosemite spokesperson Adrienne Freeman:
* The Mercury News reporter was wrong about the number of fatalities on the cables. Instead of nine fatal falls since since 1971, there have been nine falls from the cables, only three of which were fatal.
* The reporter misquoted Freeman in writing there has been a 30 percent increase in visitors to all Yosemite trails. Freeman actually said that there has been a 30 percent increase only on the Half Dome trail.
Thanks, Bob "BoKu" K.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 21, 2007 - 07:13pm PT
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That pic of the cables and the crowd is both impressive and scary.
Impressive that there is that many people that hike in 8 not-flat miles to do that. Scary because I can easily see how that would cause accidents.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jun 23, 2007 - 11:04pm PT
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Cost of the helicopter, SAR folks, Ranger time spent on reports, and then the reports on the reports: Big $$$!
I bet it all exceeds the cost of adding a second line of
cables alongside the existing one. If layed out right
there could be 3 lanes. Up,Down and a Center lane for overflow
and/or the nervous.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 24, 2007 - 12:05am PT
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I bet it all exceeds the cost of adding a second line of
cables alongside the existing one.
Not after you get done with the EI report and 15 years of court fights with various "do gooder" organizations.
One more cable and doubling the width of the steps establishing an up and a down side would fix 90% of the problems.
There's still no accounting for stupidity. People are still going to die up there.
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snoreta01
Boulder climber
east vinod nagar , delhi
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Feb 27, 2009 - 06:54am PT
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Hi friends
Myself Rocky! I am new here in this forum.
I just want to say hello to all. I am glad to be a member here.
Thanks
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Feb 27, 2009 - 11:18am PT
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I have been down the cables twice.
Scary Stuff.
Juan
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snoreta01
Boulder climber
east vinod nagar , delhi
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Feb 28, 2009 - 05:35am PT
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As a tourist i get a lot of information from the visit.
Rocky
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Feb 28, 2009 - 04:16pm PT
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Took my daughter Kali and her good buddy Maia, age 7, up to climb the cables in 1995. My first time back in many years and I was appalled at the hordes.
One person with a cardiac and the route would be a bowling alley gone wild. Bailed out and took the kids horseback riding the next day.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 28, 2009 - 07:44pm PT
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I took my wife up the cables a few years ago. We got a crack start so we were almost the first ones up. The hordes had arrived by the time we started down. I came close to pushing a couple of a-holes off. If you want to seriously degrade your opinion of people then doing the cables is a good exercise. If there ever is a next time, and I can't imagine why that would be, I'm taking a #10 hex on a long sling for crowd control.
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Dapper Dan
climber
Menlo Park
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Feb 28, 2009 - 10:07pm PT
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What separates you from the hordes Reilly ? Just curious...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 28, 2009 - 11:13pm PT
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Dapper,
I was part of the horde but I took exception with the few individuals who thought they were above the mundane mores of common decency to the point of being a hazard to us of the horde content with an orderly procession.
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| Messages 1 - 69 of total 69 in this topic |
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