Classic Ice Primer- Chouinard Catalog 1968

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Rick A

climber

Boulder, Colorado

Jan 4, 2009 - 11:16pm PT

The photos and accounts from Alaska,Canada and Utah are great. Love to hear more.

Back to the equipment of the day and the inspirational catalogue:

Here is a another shot of Tobin on the Dru. This shows his Chouinard supergaitors and Salewa crampons. He climbed pretty well in those flexible things!

As to the 1977 season, I did only one route with Tobin that summer. He then went on to do an amazing series of ascents, including four of the Alps’ great North Walls. I just finished writing a rather long and detailed account of Tobin’s time in the Alps and submitted it to Alpinist just prior to its demise. I hope to get it in print somewhere soon.

Rick

RDB

Trad climber

Iss WA

Jan 5, 2009 - 07:41pm PT

I'd gladly pay to read that article!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2009 - 07:45pm PT

Stonemaster Stories II- the sequel! JL- you pondering the next installment because Ricky already wrote at a couple chapters from the sound of it.

RDB

Trad climber

Iss WA

Jan 6, 2009 - 04:03am PT

Hey guys just to continue the conversation...bunch of questions and a few observations. Sorry about the quality of the pics best I can do at the moment. May be Steve can rescan the Graham Tiso article from MT #31 his 2 earlier pieces (#17/#20) on ice gear/tools? Pretty please :)

Doug sez:
"A Climaxe would make a good collector's item, for sure, but they weren't so, uh, "hot" for climbing. Not enough heft, so they kinda wobbled and dinked around.......YC had a Climaxe at his beach shack that came out at low tide and was all scruffy from digging in the sand. He called it the Clam-axe."

Pretty obvious the Climax we all know and love was hand forged, fitted by Camp and a bit light in the head. Although there is a great pic of John Bouchard some where in my stack of CLIMBING mags with him on difficult mixed terrain..with the head or a Climax wrapped and an alpinehammer . I had assumed the wrap was to add weight but never bothered to ask John when I met him years later. I'll dig that pic up if Steve doesn't have time too.

BUT....this one is obviously hand forged and attached the same way as the alpine hammers were (BD wall hammers still are) and has some serious weight behind it. That I might have used if I'd ever seen one. Never did.

Doug were these the first and never marketed to the public?

pic is from MT #32 1974 in a Joe Brown ad.

Next up? Chouinard axe, the Terro and the Curver? History is writen by the guys who write. They aren't always accurate for various reasons.

This is from an ad in MT #18 Nov 1971.

Clearly a ash handled Chouinard Piolet, "finished" Terros and what is obviously a a "Curver" in everything but name, but actually a Nanga Parbat by Stubia. My parner used one for a couple of seasons so I knew it well.

Remember by several accounts 1970 was the "magic" year Terros and the Piolet were introduced to the public.

Chouinard tells of having the Charlet factory make him a 55cm curved pick axe at some point during or after the fall of 1966. His (YC) alpine hammer was introduced commercially in '67 according to the catalog and the Piolet in '69. So my guess is it took awhile for the Charlet factory to come around. Might be a reason Interalp made the Piolet. Bet there is a story there.

Doug sez:
"All these shots show much later and more evolved McInnes tools than the ones I was thinking of from the late 60s. The blades on these look to be about one-third the thickness and of a high alloy. I'd like to swing those tools, and I bet they would work just fine........Certainly by the next catalog the date of introduction of the Piolet is listed as 1969. And by October of that year Yvon delivered to me on the edge of the Palisade Glacier the hickory-handled 70 cm one (and that hand-forged Alpine Hammer) that we put to good use on the V-Notch the next day.......He was very intent on letting me know in no uncertain terms about Scottish primogeniture of the droop. Others listening agreed. May have even said that YC had come through Scotland to take in their development. "

Point to a much later Terro from what I read. Does sound like they were a 70/71 winter introduction. And actual production started in '69 on the piolet.

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this one.

I believe this is either Cecchinel or Jager on the Dru Couloir, DEC '73. If not it is at least suppose to be the tools they used by the MT #33 account. I have both a Simond 720 and the much later Jaguar (see Steve's Simond pic above) and trust me the 720 wasn't much. The Jaguar was good competiton to the already out of poduction Chouinard Piolet. A Chouinard piolet was hard to fine even in Chamonix (none locally in the NW at that time) by the fall of '78. (More on the Simond tools later) The Simond long alpine hammer is light in the head but is long enough to give a good swing and stick in every thing by hard ice. Their Simond Crampons btw were close to the current Grivel G12s design and hinged.

So we know Simond and suspect Charlet weren't making deeply curved axes unless......you believe this:

This from Mike Chessler's web site..
"And if the climbers ice climbed, they used Chouinard Ice Axes and Crampons. Chouinard copied the steep drooping pick of European hand made axes, that planted firmly in hard ice or Neve, and made balance and esthetics primary."

And last one of Tiso's articles.

Ice dagger? The front cover shot of Chouinard in the early catalog shows him using a dagger and an axe. Page 80 and 173 in CLIMBING ICE shows YC in the same or really similar togs. Hickory handled hammer of some type clearly visable on page 173. A ice screw barely showing as are two faily pins on his left side. Looks like the dagger is a long pin to me :)

Doug again:
"Somehow I've always thought the ice pin in YC's hand on that catalog cover was not a warthog but a way old-school one that looks basically like a very long vertical blade pin. Somebody gave me one recently; when I'm posting again, I'll show it off."

I work in metal every day and the history and design of our toys has always interested me. Always figured there was a little more synergistic development of ice tools easrly on but never really bothered ot look into it in any detail.

My guess is that anyone who got a "the steep drooping pick of European hand made axes" was getting it from the Charlet factory based on Chouinard's 1966 design request. But having the tools doesn't mean you have the insight on how to use them.

I think the discussion on the Demasion route '73 via the Walker (done in winter as a rock climb) and Cecchinel's routes on the Dru '73 and Grand Pilier d'Angle '71 show that Europeans were for the most part still trying to "rock" climb. Chouinard on the other hand was well past that by 1966 and thinking "ICE".

And did I mention this kid was the "shit"? 4th ascent of the Harlin route on the Eiger, Oct '77 in 5 days. That is some proud old school stuff in my book.

Michael Kennedy

Social climber

Carbondale, Colorado

Jan 6, 2009 - 08:24am PT

How about a couple from the first ascent of the Ames Ice Hose (Feb. 1976).

Steve Shea and Lou Dawson (above) and me (below) after spending the night in the woods atop the route. Note Supergaitors, Dachstein mitts and sweater, Foamback.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 6, 2009 - 11:58am PT

Hey Michael! Those were the days of leather and wool and hard work hauling it all around with you! Nice shots. Makes me want to toss a few ice cubes in my drawers while drinking my coffee this morning!

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Jan 6, 2009 - 01:21pm PT

In the mid-70s the Simond and Charlet-Moser tools seemed to work better in the fall and winter ice found around Chamonix than other gear that we frequently used. The Chouinard tools including the recently introduced Zeros were harder to place than the French tools. The French tools had a thinner cross section and were made of harder steel. The Simond tools had slightly less curve than the Chouinards, and the Charlets, a bit more.

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

Jan 6, 2009 - 01:52pm PT

Climbing Magazine issue no. 34
John Bouchard a short distance from the ice head wall, Grand Charmoz North Face.

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Jan 6, 2009 - 02:00pm PT

I want that rucksack!
It is a Karrimor for sure, maybe Whillans model.

I had use of one for a time, 'pulled the pattern and made a number of copies. Only an approximation though, as I could never source all those cool materials: snaps for the flap similar to car topping industry stuff, wool felt shoulder straps, very burly canvass...

Rick A

climber

Boulder, Colorado

Jan 6, 2009 - 07:18pm PT

Hi Todd,
For those who might not recognize the name, Todd Eastman did the first ascent with Tobin of the Sorenson/Eastman Couloir on the Dent du Requin in September of 1977. He also did an early repeat of the Super Couloir on Mont Blanc du Tacul, that same season.
Rick

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2009 - 11:16pm PT

Proud ticklist Todd! What are your recollections of those classic ice routes?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2009 - 03:15pm PT

I have been looking for a shot of Don Jensen's face and found one reliably in Chris Jones' Climbing in North America, 1975.

Harvard Mountaineering Club group to Wickersham Wall, 1963. From left: Don Jensen, John Graham, Dave Roberts, Pete Carman, Rick Millikan, Hank Abrons and Chris Goetze. John Graham photo.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2009 - 01:45pm PT

While we have Kennedy in the house! Here is the story behind the bleary bivi shot that he posted earlier. From Glenn Randall's superb Vertigo Games, 1983.

Bring back any memories Michael?

RDB

Trad climber

Iss WA

Jan 11, 2009 - 02:39pm PT

From later catalogs, red Chouinard rope, Whillians, jumars, Chouinard wall pack, green Shoenards, the required rugby shirt, and a schizo hat. Etriers made according to directions on page 54. This is the 2nd sunrise, 2 full days out on 6 snickers, 2 quarts of water and a 150 ft leader fall on a body belay, late afternoon the previous day.

Canada. The sun had been out all day, soft, plastic ice...now we are in shade, sun is gone, with temps dropping to -30 rather quickly. Something we had not experienced before. Down vest, (wet by now) wool shirt, Scotish Knickers from Chouinard, a really big boiled wool hat, Dachstein mitts, Super gaiters, 1st gen chouinard rigids, alpine hammer and 55cm hickory axe, Trappeur boots, Salewa tubes without slots, worth less Charlet Moser screws and a wart hog. I am getting seriously cold and figure we should at least document our impending doom. My partner is even more pissed because he doesn't want to stop and take a picture of my sorry ass. He had thoughtfully brought along his down jacket. His puffy little piece was a hand sewn Frostline kit he was very proud of, come to think of it but his feet had long ago lost feeling in Superguides and a Millet knee high canvas gaiters.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2009 - 03:44pm PT

Nice bivi-sized wool hat!

RDB

Trad climber

Iss WA

Jan 13, 2009 - 07:05pm PT

Just ran a few items through an inflation calculator for fun.

On the 1972 catalog price list:

Piolet 35. (by 1974 they were $50 or $227 today)
alpine hammer 18.
Haderer boots 115.
Trappeur boots 64.
wall hammer 16.

With inflation today:

Piolet 35. = $180
alpine hammer 18. = $92.
Haderer boots 115. = $590
Trappeur boots 64. $329
wall hammer 16. = $82

Vintage bamboo Piolet on Ebay $150 and up
Vintage alpine hammer on Ebay $50 and up
New BD wall hammer @ retail $100
New Galibier Super Guide boot @ retail $400 plus shipping
Sportiva Evo Nepal @ retail $475.