| Messages 1 - 20 of total 20 in this topic |
Sir Run-it-out
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 12, 2004 - 01:54pm PT
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Yesterday I packed my new haul bag with 80lbs worth of gear, and heaved it on my back for the hike to the base of El Cap for some solo aid practice. I immediately became aware of two things:
1) iron, aluminum and nylon weighs a lot
2) whoever designed the suspension system on a Metolius haul bag deserves, no _needs_, to be taken out and firmly beaten with a large blunt object, preferably one which has shards of broken glass glued to it. Shards which have been dipped in lemon juice, with lots of nasty bacteria.
Shall I enumerate the ways that it sucks? It's unstable. The hip belt is not well attached to the bag. The hip belt is far too narrow. The shoulder straps might as well have been made of dental floss. There are no support struts inside. What's the deal? Have these people never seen normal backpack before, maybe taken one apart to learn from the recent advances in suspension technology? By recent I mean within the last 400 years.
I've humped heavy loads before, some in excess of 100lbs, and while the going was slow, with a real backpack it was quite bearable, and reasonably pain free.
In order to use a haul bag on a climb, you actually have to get there first! Hauling doesn't only imply vertical motion on a rock face attached to rope, but also that stuff you do with your legs! And once you're done with the climb, you have to get back! Maybe they designed it this way so that no matter how freakishly hard and unpleasant the climb is, all you're thinking about is how happy you are to get the pack off your back.
Are all haul bags this badly designed, or does the Metolius stand alone in this regard? Has anyone successfully modified the harness to make it more comfortable?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Bishop, Ca.
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:09pm PT
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a few things:
1. you are light
2. You should have bought a FISH bag (ours carry worse by the way)
3. you are light
4. rent a porter
5. it is a haul bag, not a pack.
6. all haul bags carry like a giant sack of rocks
7. you are light
8. packing the bag a certain way can make it carry better.
9. rent a porter
10. you are light
Hope this helps (quasi joking on the light thing, but you are kinda light......)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:15pm PT
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2. Russ is right, but at least his pigs are cheaper.
A few years ago, Metolius introduced quite a good strap system to their pigs. They continued this for a year or two. I bought one -it's by far the best pig I have ever schlepped.
Then just recently I noticed they have gone back to their old system, which is poor as you describe.
I do not understand why Metolius did this! Probably to save money on cost? I'd rather pay a bit more for a pig I can actually carry, because I'm the lightest of the light.
4. is the Better Way.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:15pm PT
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The only time you should have that kind of weight in your bag is on the way down. Why would you ever carry that much up to the cliff in your haulbag?
Use a pack with real suspension to carry the weight to the base, then bring the haul bag up on your last load with your sleeping bag and clothes in it. If you are trying to do it all in one carry with hardwear, bivy gear, food and water...then you are the one who should be taken out back and beaten.
Fancy suspension would just make haulbags more expensive, and add extra weight and bulk to carry. They are too expensive as it is...
Which metolius bag do you have by the way?
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:20pm PT
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Agree with Russ here. Charles is easily 15 pounds lighter than me and has the hips of a 14 year old vietenemese boy. Seriously, the human greyhound. GROW SOME ASS MAN!!!
After you get some booty, that bag will ride soooo much nicer.
Good news is the trip to the base of el cap is very short, the bad news is the trip to the base of half dome is not.
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Sir Run-it-out
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2004 - 02:36pm PT
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Maybe I should try some anti-Atkins diet.
I admit, I have no hips or ass to speak of. Normally I have to duct tape my harness to my body to make it stay in place. Maybe I'll try the same with the haul bag. I have an "El Cap" - the name made it sound so appealing, I couldn't resist.
While the lack of weight does cause problems, especially when hauling, it does have indisputable advantages when trying to pull certain free moves.... 'Course the current state of my tendons might gainsay that....
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2004 - 02:42pm PT
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I bought a North Face A5 Radix. First wall a buckle ripped off under normal use, and the pack straps completely ripped off carrying it down to the East Ledges. North Face fixed it for free but they are built like junk and I anticipate more repairs.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:46pm PT
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Pete, you haven't been reduced to 'shudder' carrying your own haul bag have you?
Charles, nice meeting you at El Cap, getting the bag packed and to the base is the crux for me.
Peace
karl
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Sir Run-it-out
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2004 - 02:52pm PT
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I can't believe that it would be too expensive or heavy to improve suspension systems on haul bags. It would take about 6 more ounces of foam, a couple of light aluminum or plastic struts inside to give it a bit of shape, and a slightly better attachment system for the belt. In terms of raw material costs, say $0.47. Which means $20 extra at retail. I would be willing to pay that (well, for those rare times I'm actually forced to pay retail).
Nice meeting you too Karl! To think that I was finally introduced to the infamous Karl Baba, and didn't even realize it at the time!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 12, 2004 - 03:08pm PT
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I did it once, Karl....
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Apr 12, 2004 - 03:35pm PT
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"In terms of raw material costs, say $0.47. Which means $20 extra at retail. I would be willing to pay that (well, for those rare times I'm actually forced to pay retail)."
Yeah me too...unfortunately with your typical Haulbag maker it would be like $120 dollars extra, rather then just $20.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Apr 12, 2004 - 06:05pm PT
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I understand your complaints when you say climbing equipment costs a heck of a lot of money, but may I put a word in for the other side? See if you are broadminded enough to listen.
I used to work in a commercial mountaineering manufacturing company, Western Mountaineering, in San Jose, CA, about 30 yrs ago. I know from first hand: it is hard as hell to make a living at manufacturing climbing equipment. The cost of material, labor, overhead, and development are killer, and the facts of competition, foreign rip-off designs, etc, don't help at all. Climbers, me included, are a very cheap bunch of characters to boot. Most manufacturers go out of business after a few years of pouring blood into the love of your life; few make it to the big time.
I know the stuff is expensive, I too pay retail nowdays, but for a moment, walk in the other guy's shoes. It offends me to read posts by people who don't realize the other side of the issue...
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anachronism
Trad climber
Yosemite, CA
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Apr 12, 2004 - 09:17pm PT
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Fish is right... errr Russ.. You are light... or no... well maybe, but that part I cannot tell. I'm not dumb enough to hump a full load up to the El Cap. Only stupid enough to load up a REAL BACKPACK 15 times to get my beer and boom boxes (gotta have stereo) up there.
No seriously, use a real back pack to hump loads. Hump many loads, mate (damn, I sound like a lame canuck). That pig you bought is to be humped OFF, and only OFF, or tossed, once and ONLY once OFF.. Did i say OFF? I hope so...
geezz... rookies.... ;-)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2004 - 10:25pm PT
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notorious might be the word you were searching for, Charles
About Haul Bag suspensions: It seems to me that many of the things that might improve bag carrying might also put a dent into bag hauling. Anything that can't be cleanly unclipped and unstrapped after the pig hike might contribute to wear and tear hauling.
Anyway, you want to pack the heavier items lower in the bag and closer to your back. Similarly, you build the integrity of the haul bag for carrying by the way you pack it instead of with internal stays. The thing is, you carried the haul bag to the base of EL Cap with mostly rack and gear in it. Those are the last things that get carried in a haul bag in a real wall situation.
I carry a separate smaller pack that's fairly light for use on the hike down that get's filled with all the heavy rack/aid stuff. If we bring a belay seat, That will go first against the back side of that pack to protect our backs for cam lobes and such.
There is a long standing climber tradtion of personal innovation in the face of dissatisfaction. For instance, you could easliy rig your wall harness to connect up in place of the haul bag's waist belt, just dont fall with it strapped to you. A sweatshirt that's going up the wall anyway could drap across your back with it's arms over your shoulders to augment the thin shoulder straps and wick the profuse sweat from your back.
have fun suffering, it's getting to be pain season again
karl
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Sir Run-it-out
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2004 - 11:06am PT
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Karl -
Thanks for the leg-hauling tips! I like the idea of using a harness as a waist belt - that sounds like it would be much more pleasant. My hips were a little sore yesterday, and I'm not sure if it was from a lot of top stepping, or from cinching down that bloody Metolius waist belt to keep the bag from sliding off my nonexistent ass.
And I used the word "infamous" in only the most respectful and envious way!
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Michelle
Social climber
Zone 10
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Apr 13, 2004 - 11:09am PT
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When was any part of the wall experience supposed to be comfortable?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 13, 2004 - 11:23am PT
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It's like beating the wall over the copperheads with a hammer because it feels good when you stop
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ricardo
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Apr 13, 2004 - 12:46pm PT
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Russ is right ..
pigs carry like sh#t ..
Fish bags are cheaper .. and they do carry worse..
I had such animosity towards my FISH pig when i was walking down the east ledges rappels that i kicked it off the last 50' 4th class downclimbg rather than hike down with it ..
.. too bad my digital camera was still in it!
.. If you want luxurious suspension then you've gotta spend the cash .. (i think the yates suspension looks bitchen -- but i've yet to carry a fully loaded yates pig) ..
.. otherwise.. save a bit of green .. buy a FISH bag .. and curse your way to the base of the climb ..
 ricardo
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Milkdud
climber
San Diego
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Apr 14, 2004 - 09:45am PT
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As a sidebar, regarding droppin' pigs:
Jean and I had a pig kickin' contest coming down from Wigs In Space. Her Fish rolled and tumbled and squealed a LOT faster than my lame TNF/A5...maybe I should try the 'new' bouldering A5 gear?
Cheers, Michael D.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Apr 14, 2004 - 04:29pm PT
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Well, Michael, I just bought a new pair of A5 series climbing shorts. Excuse me, *bouldering* shorts, as the tag makes quite clear. They're quite comfy. And of course "never stop exploring" written inside the fly is cool.
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| Messages 1 - 20 of total 20 in this topic |
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