bolt chopping, fighting, lying- typical season over in patag

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LittleCotton-er

Ice climber
provo
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 1, 2007 - 05:40pm PT
not to be stirring up a mess, ok i am, but i have to call some bullshit when i see it. i just saw the link of the so called near boltless ascent to the summit of cerro torre this season. hardly. i just got home from a season of climbing in patagonia, where i might add that we climbed st exupery and lots of boulders(nothing too serious), but i got to witness some sh#t go down in the south! it all started when josh wharton and zack smith(i dont know either) came to chop the compressor route on cerro torre. word spread of this event like wildfire, but ironically enough, not to the others wanting to climb the torre! so they went up with a crowbar and bolt snippers to "remove" the route. they were overwhelmed with the amount of work required to do this, so they went up another time with some different gear or something. the alpinist article says they used no bolts except the final few to the summit. bullsh#t. they used all of the belay bolt stations on the ascent and descent, and they NEVER REACHED THE SUMMIT!!!! the summit of cerro torre is the final, crux, summit mushroom that has shut down many competent parties from making the top. and all of these people, including the liar himself maistri, admitted they never reached the summit. how come this detail slipped in this article? or the fact they used many belay bolts throughout the route? let me state something right now. i have super respect to these young guys and others like them that are pushing it farther than all of us old dads ever thought possible. but there needs to be some truth in spray- this is some bad spray- and no one knows.
anyway, to the juicy stuff. so when josh and zack got down from their first attempt, an american climber named steve snieder from yosemite got super pissed when he heard they were trying to chop the route a few pitches above him as he climbed it with his partner. when steve got down he flew off the handle and verbally chewed joshes ass hard. he also collapsed their tent at base camp to show them he was pissed for them wanting to erase the route he was climbing. so when bean bowers heard of all this, he found steve and assulted him, roughing him up and throwing him to the ground. word has it steve had to go to the hospital for xrays and was in a sling for a few days. as bean hit him he said, dont f*#k with my friends in my town!
so here is the question. does violence deserve to be brought in by a third party? shoult it ever be introduced? was the american team in over their forien heads to try to chop the route? should steve had approached them more calmly? should the americans have told the other compressor climbers that they were chopping the route as they climbed it, or better yet, before the fifteen climbers went for the good weather window? or how about truth in reporting.
oh, and by the way, a large meeting of about 80 climbers gathered after a film to discuss the bolt chopping matter. all of the argentine climbers(the locals) and 90% of all who attended voted that the route should stay, or at least be delt with by local climbers when the time was right. but not now.
so i leave you supertopo-ers to post away and debate this one. all opions are valid, and lets get this one good!
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 1, 2007 - 05:43pm PT
Is this the route, about 3/4 of which was climbed in 1968 by Haston, Burke, Boysen and Crew, without bolts?
andanother

climber
Mar 1, 2007 - 05:44pm PT
could we get some spaces and paragraphs in there? I don't what's going on.
snooky

climber
Mar 1, 2007 - 05:50pm PT
Sounds like Bachar syndrome again.
TwistedCrank

climber
Hell
Mar 1, 2007 - 05:55pm PT
C- for punctuation
C- for spelling
C- for grammer

And that's being generous
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 1, 2007 - 06:27pm PT
Ahh, but that's some salacious gossip though!

Sounds like a whole catalog of bad behavior.
piquaclimber

Trad climber
Durango
Mar 1, 2007 - 07:04pm PT
LittleCotton-er,

It's hard to know if this is just a troll... especially since you talk so much sh#t on these people and you don't sign your real name.

If it is true then everyone involved seems to have done something lame. In order of lameness... starting with the most lame... I would go with...

1. Physically attacking someone and sending them to the hospital.
2. Chopping the compressor route.
3. Messing with other people's equipment to show them you're pissed off.

Again though, who are you LittleCotton-er?
Can anyone else confirm this?

Brad
G_Gnome

Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
Mar 1, 2007 - 07:27pm PT
Hmmmm, sounds fun. I don't think it is ever warranted to hit somebody, especially if you are brought in only to be a thug. That said, sounds like all the people involved were wanks, but I can understand the other climbers getting wigged if bolts that they thought were there were being pulled in front of them without proper notice. The only proper notice I can think of would be a giant note at the base telling all that the vandalism is underway. Besides, who the hell do they think they are to chop in Pati?
Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
Mar 1, 2007 - 07:31pm PT
This is the part I don't get:

steve got super pissed when he he flew off the hospital for xrays and ass hard. he was in a sling for a few pitches above handle and the roughing to go to chop them he was pissed their first attempt, an american climbed it with my town! o the hospital for the juicy stuff. so when bean bowers he was climber named steve and assulted him up and zack got super pissed for xrays and was it steve and verbally chewed josh and verbally chewed joshes above had to them he climbed it steve and zack got down fro
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 1, 2007 - 07:41pm PT
What Russ said.

Truly Little Cotten, its not like you have to rush to get an opening post in. While I'm not a stickler for spelling and grammar a little effort at presenting a cohesive user friendly statement would likely get you a better result.
Or at least engage a better response as deciphering your statement requires substantial effort.
beefy

Trad climber
Adelaide, Australia
Mar 1, 2007 - 07:54pm PT
I wouldnt say its a typical season down in patagonia. I was there in january for a few weeks this year (4th time). I've only ever experienced bad weather (some good) and good people down there. It's sad to hear that clashes have occurred between climbers down there.
Josh, Zack and Steve s are all exceptional climbers. all nice guys too which makes this a litlle more disturbing.
Regarding the compressor route. haven't done it but would like to climb the torre one day by that route or some other.
Regardless of anyones view, there is apparently some pretty hard mandatory climbing on the compressor route between the bolts. It seems a little pointless to chop the bolts on the compressor route after many climbers have climbed (and probably more importantly descended) that way.
Maybe its best to make ethical statements in ways that wont affect others' safety or dreams. Not everyone climbing down there is elite. Climbing the existing route doesnt affect anyone else. If you are a purist, you dont have to climb it that way. as greg c says. the most important thing is "to fight the good fight." not each other!
hasta luego
Rob
ground_up

Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
Mar 1, 2007 - 08:06pm PT
I would think choppin the Corn presser Route would piss alot of folks off , indeed.
Why didn't Bridwell chop it?
WBraun

climber
Mar 1, 2007 - 08:09pm PT
Bridwell needed the bolts to get to the top.

A lot of what Little Cotton-er said is true.

How would I know? My source was sitting right next to me a half hour ago who was there.
caughtinside

Social climber
Davis, CA
Mar 1, 2007 - 08:11pm PT
well, I was planning to chop the Nose next week. You guys have your notice.
golsen

Social climber
kennewick, wa
Mar 1, 2007 - 08:29pm PT
It was hard to get too upset from littlecottonwooders post. But Werner said most of it was true.

It would seem to me that if someone were going to go to that much effort to erase something that infamous then the erasers should at least be upfront and honest and take credit for their actions.

The other thing I am seeing is a lack of respect for the history. OK, so maybe we shouldnt respect the way the compressor route was put in. But back when it was done it was really out there. Not only was the equipment different, but the MIND-SET was different. I dont think many young guns can appreciate that the limits of today are only where they are because of the limits that others have pushed through...
Erik of Oakland

Gym climber
Oakland
Mar 1, 2007 - 08:30pm PT
"don't f*#k with my friends in my town"

just last week I said almost exactly the same thing: "don't f*#k with my friends in my gym" -- weird
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 1, 2007 - 08:49pm PT
Riley, that guy is just short of painful to read. Forums benefit from efforts to communicate clearly.
But that said, I would refer you to a letter I wrote to one of the rag editors at the height of the trad wars where I noted in a similar vein how the world was going to hell and people bickering how others should establish routes amounted to rearranging deck chairs on the Titannic.
BadInfluence

Mountain climber
Dak side
Mar 1, 2007 - 09:04pm PT
wow that's some serious S going down. i like to throw down i wish i was hanging w/ Steve S. that day, me and Bean would have a Thriller at the Pillar.

These bolts are a part of History just like the compressor hanging. egos are getting pretty high Josh & Zack if you take it upon yourself to chop a route especially compressor route. you 2 should feel lucky just to be down at such a rad place.
ground_up

Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
Mar 1, 2007 - 09:18pm PT
So...are these guys gonna chop the bolts on the Nose next?

Agree with Bad , egoes gettin too big.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Mar 1, 2007 - 09:22pm PT
Imagine that?! Coming to fisticuffs. Don't I remember reading that back in the day, a certain member of our little forum Mr. C. was said to sucker-punch Mr. B. in the Camp 4 parking lot?

Whatever became of that? Did they kiss and make up, or is it still unresolved?

Normally I don't care much about gossip, but since both C and B are members, they could state their case if they cared. I hope they have buried the hatchet, however.
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