SUPERTOPO REFUGEES: Would you consider a Facebook Group?

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micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Topic Author's Original Post - May 17, 2019 - 10:29pm PT
So Iíve been thinking. Itís not a perfect fix, and it would require you to....gasp!.... use your actual real name, but it might be a way to stay in touch as this place burns to the ground.

I have met some amazing people on this site and there is amazing content in the form of trip reports, videos, historical threads that could be easily cut and pasted over to a Facebook Group before this place turns the lights out. And like I said, itís not perfect, Facebook would immediately own it all anyway.... but they own all my other stuff so who cares.

If I create it, I would have discretion to boot people off if they became violent, foul, hateful, etc....But these rules and rags are standard fare for Facebook groups and have been for years. A couple of the groups that I belong to have over 5000 members. When people use their real names, things tend to stay fairly civil.

I could start with a whole bunch of initial invites of some of you who are already Facebook friends with me. Then you could invite people as you want. We can make it as private or as public as we want. But it would be cool to immediately cut and paste some of the better ST content ( historical threads, good writing, informational posts) into the group immediately.

I would love to stay in touch with a lot of you, and many of us are already Facebook friends, but getting people like Donini, Largo, Werner and some of the regulars could create enough of a critical mass to create something good over there. Like I said, not a perfect fix, but a good way to keep in touch as this thing falls apart. Who might be interested? Iím just feeling the water here. I can explain to some of your old fogeys how it works if youíre keen.

Scott


Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 17, 2019 - 10:47pm PT

Yours would be the third...

Supposedly two others already in existence (Both started today, I think)...




RJ Spurrier

SuperTopo staff member
May 18, 2019 - 01:49am PT
Micronut:
Feel free to start a Facebook group for SuperTopo refugees, and also to promote it here on the Forum to let people know about it.

But, please keep in mind these two guidelines:

1. Please do not use our trademark, "SuperTopo", as part of your Facebook group name.

2. Regarding your comment, "it would be cool to immediately cut and paste some of the better ST content ( historical threads, good writing, informational posts) into the group immediately." Please be aware that the previous Terms of Service which was in place for most of the Forum's 18-year history did not provide us the right to grant permission to use or display posted content except as part of SuperTopo services. So, while you can obviously feel free to copy and paste your own content, you will need to obtain permission from each individual author if you want to use their content. Simply posting here on SuperTopo does not make content public domain. Those who post retain all patent, trademark, and copyright to any content they submit, post, or display on SuperTopo. We do not have the right to give you permission to use other people's content.

rj
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
May 18, 2019 - 02:28am PT
hey there say, RJ ...

just saw this... say, i DID see one of the groups, ...

say, i wondered about that, ...

say, can they call it something, similar to 'catch the eye' of the
folks...


like: the super-group from 'topo' ...
or, something like that??


*just trying to help the folks that were trying to do the group,
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
May 18, 2019 - 03:40am PT
Brilliant idea micronut, please invite me, my facebook id = paulwolf927. I just searched for it and found another group by the same name formed by Scott Keagy. Let's all try to get along and have multiple people as administrators for the same page, everyone who wants to be, and only have one supertopo refugee camp. Thanks!
hb81

climber
May 18, 2019 - 03:42am PT
Please don't use FB for that... FB is a pest that shouldn't be promoted.
If you do, you'll always be realiant on them and they can always change terms of service at will, etc pp.

Can't be THAT expensive to run a forum somewhere on a dedicated server?
I honestly don't know but this place isn't really huge by number of users.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
May 18, 2019 - 04:16am PT
I suggest supertaco as the group name.
I probably won't join as I hate Facebook,
But best of luck.

Every Mexican restaurant has a super taco, the powers that be cannot claim copy right infringement .
Lol
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
May 18, 2019 - 05:24am PT
RJ Spurrier, are you sure that "SuperTopo" is trademarked?
It seems to me that your information is outdated by 16 years.

TM Search

Serial Number Reg. Number Word Mark Check Status Live/Dead
178013290 SUPERTOPO TSDR DEAD
275887347 2576565 SUPERTOPO TSDR DEAD

Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
May 18, 2019 - 05:45am PT
The sad truth is that it is in large part because of Facebook that Supertopo is in this situation.
In this new paradigm, where the hosting website is held responsible for what their users do, only the tech giants YouTube, Facebook, Google, will be able to navigate through the legal morass which has been unleashed. Their monopolies will be solidified.
F%&*K Facebook!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
May 18, 2019 - 05:57am PT
hey there, say, Ezra... that is a neat idea, too, as to this:

as this is SO TRUE:
Every Mexican restaurant has a super taco, the powers that be cannot claim copy right infringement .
Lol



*AND, reeotch...
oh my, yeah, as to the facebook... i hear the por and cons... :(

BUT--i've been doing it, to see my kids and family, and it has done a miracle for us...
but, yes, i do understand a bit what you mean-- but not deeply enough... i DO miss just the simple forums, and EMAIL...
i mean, JUST A: i really just want to hear from you, please... type thing... (AND not having info 'hunted' off of us) :(


for now, though, facebook has helped me know when my friends need
help, and thus, i am using it... life is short, in the vast scope
of things, and i want to be where i can do the most good for others...


thank you, though, very much, for sharing that...
we do need all the 'shares' for a full picture...
:)
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 18, 2019 - 06:01am PT
I think out of decency one should not use "Supertopo," even if they neglected to protect it legally.

RJ politely requested - be honorable. I'm sure some might think "F THAT!" But I think Micronut would not be that type.
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
May 18, 2019 - 06:07am PT
See, this is how Facebook gets you. Pretty soon it will be the only option to keep in touch with loved ones. What better way to sink the hooks in. "What? You're not dissing your friends are you?"
When I removed my profile from Facebook they sent a message to all my friends saying I had "un-friended" them. Some people were pissed off at me!
That was such a low blow, I will never use Facebook again.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
May 18, 2019 - 06:34am PT
In this new paradigm, where the hosting website is held responsible for what their users do, only the tech giants YouTube, Facebook, Google, will be able to navigate through the legal morass which has been unleashed.

If the site is owned by someone judgement-proof, especially being a national of non-1st world country... I don't think there'll be much incentive to sue.
A Essex

climber
May 18, 2019 - 06:34am PT
take over Mountainproject!!!
JLP

Social climber
The internet
May 18, 2019 - 06:45am PT
This is like everyone promising to keep in touch after high school. Itís out of context, it doesnít happen, but youíll make new friends elsewhere. MP.com is noob infested tech dork hell. It would be nice to have something else climbing related. Maybe Wide Fetish could rise above the impromptu hack status itís in now, maybe it just needs a more serious admin in the back room.
Mike.

climber
May 18, 2019 - 07:08am PT
Itís a good thought, mictronut.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 18, 2019 - 07:10am PT
I don't know much about Facebook, but I'd probably join.
RJ Spurrier

SuperTopo staff member
May 18, 2019 - 07:45am PT
Yury:
Thanks for the heads up. We'll have our lawyer fix that.

It is important to note that we are still using SuperTopo mark, and will continue to use it in the future -Ė and so it still is protected under common law trademark rights. Trademark registration isn't necessary for legal protection against unauthorized use. Our concern would be that use of SuperTopo in the name would result in consumer confusion.

And, we will definitely be pro-active to legally protect the SuperTopo trademark.

rj



blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 18, 2019 - 08:33am PT
Trademark law doesn't allow a trademark owner a veto right of other's use of the trademark. Rather, the trademark owner can only prevent uses that are likely to cause consumer confusion. (There's an exception to every rule, but that's the basic rule.)

So, for example, Coke can't prevent Pepsi from using the Coke trademark for comparative purposes (Pepsi tastes better than Coke). And Walmart can't stop people from using the Walmart trademark in contexts such as "Walmart Sucks." This can be regarded as a form of "fair use," although that's not always the right jargon.

Even more than other areas of law, determining whether the use of another's trademark is permissible can be subjective and often you can't really say if a use is infringing until there's a resolved lawsuit.

But it's not at all self-evident that use of Supertopo in the context of something like Supertopo Refugees is infringing. Perhaps a compromise may be something like not using Supertop as the name of a group, but using it in some sort of description of the purpose of the group?
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2019 - 08:34am PT
RJ..... I hear you. But would you mind if I use the name Supertopo Refugess for a couple weeks to get the things started. I can change it anytime. I just practiced doing so in my admin console on Facebook.

It will help the thing gain steam and I can change it to Supertaco Refugees, Superhasbeens, whaterver as soon as you guys want. How does that sound?

Scott
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 18, 2019 - 08:47am PT
I donít do Facebook. I really detest Facebook.

I appreciate the effort to find a workaround, though.
RJ Spurrier

SuperTopo staff member
May 18, 2019 - 08:55am PT
Micronut:
But would you mind if I use the name Supertopo Refugess for a couple weeks to get the things started.


Yes, we would mind.

I can change it anytime. I just practiced doing so in my admin console on Facebook.


Glad to hear it. Please do change it immediately.

I'm sure that a name like SuperTaco Refugees will achieve your goals, without infringing on our trademark.

Thanks,

rj

micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2019 - 09:05am PT
Roger that RJ. On it.

johntp

Trad climber
Punter, Little Rock
May 18, 2019 - 09:13am PT
Yours would be the third...

Supposedly two others already in existence (Both started today, I think)...

Yup. Lynne Leichtfuss has one going. As with others, I abhor FB.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 18, 2019 - 09:14am PT
Where were you two days ago, RJ, when I started a FB group? I make this disclaimer. I had no idea about your name protection. I will get rid of the group as soon as I figure out how. I did mention this on Chris's thread, but no one said anything at that time.
RJ Spurrier

SuperTopo staff member
May 18, 2019 - 09:16am PT
Micronut:
Much appreciated. Thank you!

Lynne L:
Where were you two days ago, RJ, when I started a FB group?
Sorry I didn't see your post.

L

climber
Just livin' the dream
May 18, 2019 - 09:46am PT
FaceBook has a horrible reputation for stealing/selling users' personal data, among other unsavory things.

If you stay current with the news, new transgressions appear almost daily.

Not a place I want to even visit, much less open an account with.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 18, 2019 - 10:02am PT
JLP wrote,
MP.com is noob infested tech dork hell.

Curious, how are you to climb with?


I know, hook up with L and let us know how it went.

lol
BooDawg

Social climber
Butterfly Town
May 18, 2019 - 11:08am PT
I would NOT CONSIDER A FACEBOOK GROUP for numerous reasons including but not limited to: their threats to people's privacy; their greed for power and $$; their monopolies of social media outlets; and MUCH MORE!!
jstan

climber
May 18, 2019 - 11:15am PT
I do not use FB in any form, at any time. It was self apparent from the very start they intended to mine personal data.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
May 18, 2019 - 11:23am PT
No to Bookface. I'll never join; too Orwellian an orginaztoin for my tastes.


Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 18, 2019 - 11:32am PT

Many from here are already on Facebook and have been for quite some time (with ZERO issues with FB, that I am aware of)...


To those that fear it or are "snobs" to it???...


"To each their own"...



Said in the "soup Nazi" voice:



"No more "CAMPFIRE" for you!!!...


Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
May 18, 2019 - 11:43am PT
I hate FB but use it anyway. I'd like to keep up a little, so throw me an invite, please.

BAd
Jim Clipper

climber
May 18, 2019 - 11:46am PT
What about Reddit? Isn't it made for this kind of thing?
L

climber
Just livin' the dream
May 18, 2019 - 12:01pm PT
Curious, how are you to climb with?
I know, hook up with L and let us know how it went.


Awwwwww Fruity....you still smarting because I busted you on your obsession with Jan? Tsk-tsk :-)

BTW...I've climbed with many of the folks on this forum (Scuffy, Jaybro, Ed H, Largo, Maidy, BVD, Levy...just to name a few). Who here have you climbed with?

Er...do you even climb, brah?
Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 18, 2019 - 12:14pm PT


LMAO!!! @ the classic line = "Er...do you even climb, brah?"...

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 18, 2019 - 01:12pm PT
"MP.com is noob infested tech dork hell."


Yeah, I gotta agree with that assessment.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 18, 2019 - 01:52pm PT
RJ,

Easier to do than undo
I'm trying
Please don't sue.
Whoa, a little poem or rough haiku.

Super Topo....always bringing out the best in us. :)
Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 18, 2019 - 01:56pm PT


"Easier to do than undo"...

Most likely you're going to need to close that one out, and start another...


Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 18, 2019 - 02:31pm PT
Bobbleseth ... which could translate to bs. :) Sorry, couldn't help myself. Can't help myself with FB either. Tried to change, tried to delete. I'm sure when my 10 year old grandkid gets home it will all be fine.

I've been on FB for years as have been my huge family and many climbing friends like Tony Yeary, Todd Gordon, Dave Evans....guess we got nothing to mine. :) We've had a good time. OOps, rhyming again. I guess it's like the hiccups when you get nervous.
Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 18, 2019 - 02:33pm PT
Lynne...

All you need to do is delete the new page you started...

It's easy...(I've done it, so it has to be)

Then start a new one...



:-)


and in case you haven't figured it out yet...

it's locker here...

Bobbleseth is a play on a name from an old aquaintence of my fathers = Bob Ulseth
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 18, 2019 - 02:37pm PT
Locker......of course I knew/know it is/was you! I am mostly intelligent. Except for deleting this dang Thread on ST. Going back under to try again.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
https://nutagain.org
May 18, 2019 - 02:42pm PT
I couldnít immediately figure out how to delete the other supertopo refugees group I had started before I saw micronut also made one... but I put it in archive mode and put a description steering folks to supertaco refugees. I delete it when I figure out how to do it (Iím not a facebook power user).
Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 18, 2019 - 02:43pm PT


"I am mostly intelligent."...


It's the missing stuff that has me concerned...

;-)


Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 18, 2019 - 02:50pm PT
:) Me too!
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 18, 2019 - 03:13pm PT
Iíve been a defender of this site.....but now it seems like the admin wants to play bully when they didnít(AGAIN) do their job and foresee the obvious. Knucklephukin heads! You and your alleged attorneys donít seem to have a clue about legality until a third party brings yer screw ups to yer attention. Your ďlegalĒ department seems to be a ďwiki.comĒ operation. If you didnít sour enough grapes by dropping the ball on Supertopo, you have risen to new lows with this ďIíll tell you what to do after you already did it, and we screwed the big one againĒ tactic. With all due respect to Chris.....get yer acts together boys!
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 18, 2019 - 03:21pm PT
Anyone who created another site about this place....see how long it takes the ďlegalĒ department here to take ďactionĒ. Yeah prolly a good idea to change the name....the way RJ is proceeding...it would be better off disassociating the name here all together. It seems at this point there is an effort to put the screws on. As much as people cared about this site, the admin could care less at this point. A fresh start would be a wiser way to go.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 18, 2019 - 03:26pm PT
A few people have jumped aboard Super Topo Campfire. None of us have been able to access micronuts FB Group. If you get it up and running micronut we can transfer over, no problem. I think you'd be a better admin.

But until Micronut gets it up and running I need to change the name to Super Taco Campfire. Message me if you know where to start in this process.
THX!
Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 18, 2019 - 03:31pm PT


Lynne...

Instructions on how to delete accounts on FB (that's what you're going to most likely have to do)

https://www.facebook.com/help/250563911970368?helpref=hc_global_nav
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 18, 2019 - 03:32pm PT
Hey Lynnie, let me know when and how to proceed. I felt this was going to happen, thatís why I sat on the invite.
Peace
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2019 - 03:38pm PT
Hi Lynnie. Mine is up and running and I would be glad to transfer it to yours to make it easy. Iím just glad you are stoked and that we are on the same page. If you want to delete yours, go ahead, I already have invited about 140 people and it seems like itís gaining some traction with about 30 members so far.

If you want to keep yours, I can shut mine down immediately but we would need to do so pretty quickly.




Its called ďSupertaco RefugeesĒ. Just search for it. You have to put in a request and I will accept it. Badabigbaddaboom.

Just let me know what you think. Iím just going to keep this thing rolling and be available.
I might even delete this thread in a day or so to keep some continuity and draw people to the other thread. Just thinking out loud.
jaredg

climber
california
May 18, 2019 - 03:47pm PT
So you could call it the "Supertopo Sucks! Refugees" and cover your ass from RJ's threats.
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 18, 2019 - 03:52pm PT
Micronut, is that on FB? Not finding it
Peace
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2019 - 04:06pm PT
Looks like you found it Ron. See you there.
perswig

climber
May 19, 2019 - 04:41am PT
This is like the Diaspora.
With selfies.



Dale
Gunks Guy

Trad climber
New Paltz
May 19, 2019 - 05:10am PT
If you are having trouble finding it (like me), after searching for it, there's a horizontal menu bar near the top of the page that says All", "Posts", "People", "Photos", etc... I needed to click on "Groups" in this menu before I saw Supertaco Refugees.
Surfandstone

climber
May 19, 2019 - 06:39am PT
HOHMANN this internet thing is HARD
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 19, 2019 - 07:26am PT
Geez, Ron...those are some pretty bitter comments. Surprising coming from you, and the fact that none of us truly know what is happening behind the scenes on this.

Much as I hate to see it go, Chris and RJ deserve the benefit of the doubt on this, and all the support we can give them. They have put a sh#t-ton of effort into keeping this place that we have all enjoyed (at no cost!) for many years.
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 19, 2019 - 09:14am PT
Yes, harsh, but like I said...I defended this place and now seems RJ and who ever else wants to play strong hand now that their hand is called. There are people attempting to keep this going and yeah I get it.....trademarks, copy rights, but when brought to their attention the trademark ran out eons ago.....Ēoh schit...Iíll have our ďlawyers fix that!Ē Then telling everyone what they can and canít do.....unprofessional is a civil way of putting it.
It appears from what RJ says, they got a response from an attorney and all hell breaks loose. The stuff was happening for years and they made meager attempts to fix it.
Peace
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
May 19, 2019 - 07:44pm PT
Happiegrrrl2:
I think out of decency one should not use "Supertopo," even if they neglected to protect it legally.
I suspect that an attempt to register "Supertopo" word was rejected by USPTO.
Two different "Typed Drawings" were registered but both were either abandoned or cancelled.

This has nothing to do with decency.
It seems to me that USPTO believes that "Supertopo" is either a common word or was already used by somebody else prior to attempt of Chris to trademark it.

So both Supertopo.com domain and Supertopo group on Facebook can coexist.
It's OK from both ethical and legal point of view.
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 19, 2019 - 08:19pm PT
Like I said earlier...playing strong hand.....tara cards and double faced coin. Yury, if what you posted in true, RJ and the group are playing games. June 1st canít come soon enough.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
May 19, 2019 - 08:26pm PT
Ron, you can search USPTO database yourself.
It's not a rocket science (although a bit more complicated than using Google).

Just go to https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-application-process/search-trademark-database and then click on "Search Our Trademark Database (TESS)" button.
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 19, 2019 - 08:40pm PT
Yury at this point I take your word above the admin here. It just started getting very sketch here when they started trying to answer questions, but had no answers. Started getting aggressive with members and only had ďlegalĒ this and that which made no sense.
Peace
zBrown

Ice climber
May 19, 2019 - 10:00pm PT
Something is not adding up here!

jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
May 22, 2019 - 07:31pm PT
Love it@climbtacos
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
May 23, 2019 - 06:44am PT
Ron +1.

EDIT: I gotta say that it's inappropriate to blame customers for your organizational failures. It's a management problem. It's always a management problem.
BooDawg

Social climber
Butterfly Town
May 23, 2019 - 08:19am PT
Happiegrrrl has started and independent group called "climberstacosalad" that can be found here:

http://climberstacosalad.freeforums.net/

There is a bit of a learning curve, but for those of us who have issues with FB and who want an independent, new, community-based forum, this is the best that I've seen so far. There are quite a few of us there, so come on over, sit down at the new "campfire," and let's get on with RESPECTFULLY sharing our common interests.

Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
May 23, 2019 - 08:24am PT
Ron and MikeL,
You two sound like spoiled babies. In what world is providing a free service for 18 years, anything but a success? You found meaning and happiness here. Say Thank You.
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