SuperTopo is not a Place for Political Discussions

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Messages 61 - 80 of total 199 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 16, 2019 - 09:50am PT
Hey, John!

Nice to see you here. I've missed your voice in these discussions.
Spanky

Social climber
boulder co
Apr 16, 2019 - 10:25am PT
Kudos to you Chris, I used to spend quite a bit of time on ST but have drifted away over the last couple of years to MP because I come to theses sites for climbing content not political and religious arguments. thanks
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 16, 2019 - 10:55am PT
So if the ST sale rumors are legit, it appears that CMac doesn't really give a sh!t about the community he's created here but cares only about the value of his commodity.

I think he has that right. I'm not paying to use this site (though I've paid to buy many of ST's excellent guides), and I don't see where I have a right to devalue what Chris owns.

Apogee, it was great being able to participate with you in the discussions (yes, there were many) here.

John
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Apr 16, 2019 - 01:14pm PT
We used to go into NP or NF wilderness without permits.
We could cram 5 vehicles and ten people into a free campsite in Josh.
We could make campfires from local wood and bury crap in a hole.
Drive without seatbelts, bike and ski without helmets.

The lowest common denominator always determines the rules or laws. Oh well, things always change.

I'll still peak in and hope to find a little personality left, to go with great trip reports and photography.
zardoz

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, CO
Apr 16, 2019 - 01:23pm PT
I've been told no politics, but I still wanted to say that Kelly Peterson cannot have her friend's bake sales ADDED TO HER CLASS TOTAL.


THAT IS UNFAIR.
David Knopp

Trad climber
CA
Apr 16, 2019 - 02:47pm PT
happy what's mstga?
Robert L

climber
Apr 16, 2019 - 04:27pm PT
So if the ST sale rumors are legit,

If the rumors are legit, he's busier trying to get some developments done in the Tahoe area

And if other rumors are true, advertisers aren't getting much banner ad click traffic leading to sales. And there's little demand for selling data. And discouraging people from posting to political threads (or posting photos in general) will reduce site hosting costs.

The politards need some burner avatars. And a list of code words.

Will this thread be crrrrushed if it becomes THE thread for political discussion?
PIZZAMAN

Trad climber
Van Nuys, Ca.
Apr 16, 2019 - 04:57pm PT
I've heard that CMac has gone to the dark side and is a serious capitalist, likely voted for Trump.
RJ Spurrier

SuperTopo staff member
Apr 16, 2019 - 06:08pm PT
T Hocking said:
So if the ST sale rumors are legit, it appears that CMac doesn't really give a sh!t about the community he's created here but cares only about the value of his commodity.


Mr. Hocking, you are grossly misinformed, and also rather rude in your speculation about Chris's motivations.

I don't know what you are smoking to inspire your delusion of "ST sale rumors", but let me put the facts straight right now: the ST site is neither for sale, seeking sale, nor has the site been presented an unsolicited offer (and none is expected, ever). There is no basis for the "ST sale rumor" you falsely allege, which appears to only be a rumor because of your ignorant and speculative post which is completely and utterly without basis.

Further, the speculation that ST is making a lot of money on the forum, such as suggested in posts by Reilly, is definitively false and a further delusion. The ad revenue for the site does not cover the cost of keeping the site hosted and in operation. It never has. The Forum is provided as a service to the climbing community, at an economic cost for Chris and SuperTopo LLC. If Chris was focused on profits, the Forum would have been shut down long ago.

The SuperTopo site has never encouraged copyright infringement.

What Chris posted in that regard was neither a new policy for the site nor an unreasonable one for Chris to remind members about. It is perfectly reasonable to ask people to only upload images they own the rights to. The liability created by copyright violations is substantial.

The SuperTopo Forum has never encouraged political debate, despite the obvious interest of members to engage in those kinds of topics. While it is clear that many people like to discuss politics with a community of fellow climbers, it is also clear that political discussions have brought out the beast -- the worst in climber-to-climber behavior -- and result in substantial degradation of the Forum overall, and a significant burden of moderation costs. It is not what the site was ever about, and it is perfectly reasonable for Chris to ask folks to take those discussions elsewhere.

While you, T Hocking, may not care about the ethics or the liability created by violations of Federal Copyright law, or whether political discussions result in degradation of the core community mission of the Forum (due to substantial inappropriate comments, posts, and feuding between tribes of climbers), I'd ask you to consider whether it is reasonable for Chris to set the guidelines for this Forum, that exists solely because he has been willing to fund its hosting despite the lack of its commercial prudence.

rj
SuperTopo Webmaster
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 16, 2019 - 06:12pm PT
^^^ That seems definitive.

I, for one, appreciate the post.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 16, 2019 - 06:15pm PT
It helps to hear from someone who actually knows something.
ron gomez

Trad climber
Apr 16, 2019 - 06:17pm PT
Thank you! Hope this clears some questions and is straight forth.
Peace
zardoz

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, CO
Apr 16, 2019 - 06:19pm PT
Take that, T Hocking, whoever you are!
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Apr 16, 2019 - 06:20pm PT
Thank you RJ
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 16, 2019 - 06:36pm PT
rj, thanks a lot for the clarification.

Question: Does it matter to you or Chris if someone, like myself, continues to post - in moderation of course - to the science v religion thread or the mind thread? I ask because, though they are not exactly political, these subjects do occasionally intersect.

What matters to you and Chris is, of course, what ultimately counts.

The conundrum at base, as I see it, is that politics like religion and science and other fundamentals relate strongly to culture and people and environment - and most if not all climbers certainly care a lot about culture and people and environment.

Something I've considered: I predict in one, two or five decades from now, if ST persists, it's likely to be the favorite go-to site for all retired climbers (lol) of Old Climber Homes (lol) across America and beyond. That might really be worth something someday, who knows.

Thanks for putting up and maintaining this resource. It certainly is one-of-a-kind. Though I do visit Mt Project I visit here 10 times more. Kudos.

P.S. I for one get the fact you guys are likely very busy with other projects and it might be some time before you get back here. But when you do, I'd love an answer, even if it's a month down the line.

Happy climbing.



P.P.S. I've just learned that brother-man, Dingus Milktoast, has been nuked. This is very sad. Sad. I don't know the story, of course, in fact not at all; but if there's any way to restore his content and get him, his old bones, his climber savvy and, last but not least, his general life savvy back online here, that would be far and away the best. The place simply wouldn't be the same without him.
zardoz

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, CO
Apr 16, 2019 - 06:45pm PT
I think that's all the clarification we are likely to get, HFCS. Like an angry dad listening to the kids jump on their beds for an hour, he finally came upstairs to tell them to knock that sh#t off. It's very unlikely he will elaborate.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 16, 2019 - 07:11pm PT
This was one of the first climbers forums on the Internet. I always suspected it was partly provided as a service for people to converse and share but also to drive traffic. Chrisís regular email update about the best of the forum shows it is still promoted. I doubt the traffic the forum generates much revenue. Ads donít pay much and the demographic isnít the type of people who buy lots of SuperTopos.

This is the first Iíve heard no politics are welcome. It has been asked to limit it but I donít remember it being banned.

About 10% of the forum was political threads and about 10% of my posts are on political threads. I donít post on political threads anywhere else. I post on political threads here because I have been here for close to two decades and I feel I know many of the posters here either in real life or just online and I like to hear their takes on the latest political news. Itís usially the newer totally anonymous posters (well maybe they were here but banned) or the banned posters who made really negative posts.

But Iíve never figured out why people donít ignore them. Or easier just ignore the political threads.

I understand not wanting to use any time or resources to moderate this forum. But this seems like a poor way to do it. Iíve suggested an ignore member button where you click it and never see that members posts again. Then thereís no excuse to complain to the moderators.

Copy righted images are another story. Itís a legal issue and I see why theyíd want to enforce it, especially if there was a complaint.

If Dingus is gone thatís a big hit to the forum.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 16, 2019 - 07:18pm PT
It is a great compliment to CMac and SuperTopo to have wandered into the significant target zone of the controllers and censors. Politics is among the least of the challenges to the approved narrative, although among the major mental distractions and poorly understood by most on this forum. The much bigger and more heavily surpressed issues have major implications for climbing abilities, that is to say the cosmological implications of quantum physics and the holographic universe models of reality. Once climbers tune into this, expect dramatic advancements in climbing abilities and never mind the politicians
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Apr 16, 2019 - 07:26pm PT
While it is clear that many people like to discuss politics with a community of fellow climbers, it is also clear that political discussions have brought out the beast -- the worst in climber-to-climber behavior -- and result in substantial degradation of the Forum overall, and a significant burden of moderation costs. It is not what the site was ever about, and it is perfectly reasonable for Chris to ask folks to take those discussions elsewhere.

RJ
RJ Spurrier

SuperTopo staff member
Apr 16, 2019 - 07:26pm PT
HFCS:
I can't speak for Chris, but I can tell you that I am unaware of any complaints or moderation issues related to the What is Mind or the Science vs. Religion threads (and I probably would have heard about it if there were complaints regarding those threads). I'm confident that when Chris refers to political threads, he's talking about topics related to political issues of the day, mostly relating to Trump, current political policy issues, or prominent political figures. It is those kinds of discussions that tend to devolve into tribal mudslinging, personal insults, abusive comments, and require moderation. The combination of the cost in time to moderate those kinds of topics, and the lack of any connection to the core mission intended for the SuperTopo Forum, is what makes those kinds of thread topics highly undesirable. Topics like What is Mind or Science vs. Religion are really quite a different kettle of fish.

Similarly, some folks have asked about climbing related topics that have a political element, such as access issues, climate change, and policy related to national parks, etc. I believe those kinds of topics fit well with the mission of the Climber's Forum. Except for Climate Change, those kinds of topics do not have a history of requiring moderation due to inappropriate posts or personal attacks.

Lastly, regarding DMT, you should know that he was not nuked. Dingus Milktoast has been a long time and deeply respected contributor to the site. He asked to have his posts removed in a brief but very kind email to Chris. In his request to remove his posts he said:
Its been a wonderful run and I've no regrets nor criticisms. Thank you for the opportunity to post to and read your wonderful forum. Its time for me to move on. Cheers and see you at the crags.

Dingus Milktoast's contributions were appreciated by Chris and millions of people who have visited the SuperTopo Climber's forum. But, his request to remove his posts was respected. On behalf of all of us, I'd like to thank Dingus, ask you all to join Chris in respecting DMT's personal choice. It will be a pleasure to see him at the crags.

rj

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