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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Apr 15, 2019 - 04:20pm PT
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Although I rarely, if ever post in political discussions I have a hard time with this. If we discuss land policies that affect climbing access are those political topics or climbing topics? If we discuss global warming, which has implications on climbing conditions and sustainability is that a political topic or a climbing topic? If we discuss social conditions that give the privileged leisure time to recreate (climb) while those who aren't in that class can't afford or don't have the time is that a political topic or a climbing topic.
We are climbers and we're also humans. We should care about social conditions that affect all of us. The lack of civic engagement is a serious problem in this country that has resulted in us having, well, Trump. We should be encouraging more civic engagement, not less.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 15, 2019 - 04:44pm PT
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Well said Mr. Friedrichs. I totally agree.
Politics are life.
There are folks that are hurting,since our last recession.
I work three jobs and have returned to school at 59. I can only afford to climb a half dozen times a year.
Upward mobility has ceased. Not just for me , but many.
If we can talk about stock markets,electric car companies,heck even living off grid, these things are very political.
Hey ,but,hands off of speaking of the direction of our country.
Ok, I understand and thanks.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 15, 2019 - 04:55pm PT
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Generalizations really help.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 15, 2019 - 05:04pm PT
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OK, that was my chill side I guess. I also need to say I agree with several here that ask solid questions like how do you define the fine line of politics, policies and a political thread. Mike Friedricks and jogill I agree.
Edward T, for me the "messaging system" hasn't worked here for a long time. I wonder if it was disabled due to misuse of it, ie stalking, verbal abuse and who knows what else?
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Apr 15, 2019 - 05:47pm PT
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noob question: if I can embed youtube videos by clicking on the "video" link above, then why can't the "photo" button send me to photobucket or wherever? I clicked on it and almost uploaded a photo.
I guess anyone with a website that they let other people publish to, even anonymous people, and considering all the bad things people can do, it's a lot to take on. Also a pretty weird group of people to try to use to impress sponsors, lol.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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dgbryan
Mountain climber
Hong Kong
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Apr 15, 2019 - 06:11pm PT
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In reply to OP:
It's your site & so you are of course at liberty to manage it as you see fit. & so should it be.
But you might kill it.
One of the things I have enjoyed as a frequent lurker & occasional poster is the diversity of perspectives apparent in some of the more vitriolic debates. More than once something said has sent me off down a previously unknown trail of research to learn something new. The vitriol may be distasteful, but mostly its just comical & so you filter it out.
Climbing is life, but you can only spend so much time talking about it ...
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 15, 2019 - 06:17pm PT
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I personally didn't think that the subject matter was the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem, imo, is that any idiot can sign up for an anonymous account here, then post tripe that he (almost certainly) would never dare to say to somebody face-to-face, and then the moderators were playing perpetual whack-a-mole to shut down abusive accounts.
People would get banned and then almost immediately get reincarnated with a new handle and just continue their previous ways.
Add to that the fact that many people decried others who "tattled to the mods," as if that was "weak," and you end up with an environment in which the most verbally abusive and bullying personalities dominate.
SuperTopo has been an amazing learning experience for me. What an insight into how quickly people form tribes, adopt a sweeping us/them mentality, and defend "us" against "them" in the most vile and even violent ways. We're not too far removed from lower primates after all.
So, yeah, the mods are buried in whack-a-mole, and we don't self-police when the abusive behaviors are coming from people who agree with us. In fact, we applaud such behaviors against others that are "them."
Sad, but, yes, good riddance.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 15, 2019 - 06:41pm PT
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Prepare to embrace the "super-lame."
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Apr 15, 2019 - 06:54pm PT
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Oldfattradguy2
Trad climber
Here and there
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Apr 15, 2019 - 06:55pm PT
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Everything is political, “ a lulllaby is political if you are a baby” , Townes Van Zandt
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 15, 2019 - 07:04pm PT
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I blame Moose...He trolled Cosmic into another galaxy...
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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Apr 15, 2019 - 07:11pm PT
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Seems as though most of you are struggling with reading comprehension. The almighty word seems black and white to me...
As we state on the sidebar every time you post, "Our goal with the climbing forum is to provide a resource for climbers of all skill levels and experience to get information about climbing and climbing destinations."
Duh...
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 15, 2019 - 07:20pm PT
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Chris, I find the political content if this thread disturbing. Can you delete it, please.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 15, 2019 - 07:59pm PT
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Roger.......roger. :)
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 15, 2019 - 08:16pm PT
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Our mission for the SuperTopo Forum has never included hosting political discussion or debates. And, these political discussions often get heated and tend to bring out the worst behavior on the Forum.
If I want specific standard beta on a certain climb, I will go to mountain project after using the supertopo topo if it exists. If I want expert climber opinion and stories about a certain climb, I would come to supertopo. But, with the new rules, the real gold of supertopo (the people who can share the stories) are at risk of being driven away by rules that bore the heck out of experienced climbers who don’t want to talk about climbing all the time.
I’ve got no problem blocking copyrighted content. But what exactly is it that keeps eyeballs returning to this site? It’s not people coming to check for the latest beta on Royal Arches. It’s people returning to rub shoulders with climbing legends and heroes, to connect with old friends, to make new friends and to realize that a few years of wasting time in silly non-climbing conversations has led to making new online friends that become real life friends and climbing partners.
There needs to be an exchange of value and satisfaction to keep this site alive. I don’t think it can compete for raw climbing beta compared to mountain project. The heroes and legends and average joe experienced folks who answer questions that make supertopo special, well they (we?) need a reason to come here day after day. Waiting for a n00b to ask an interesting question is not enough. No fair exchange of value, not sustainable.
Of course, this is only my opinion, probably shared by many, but certainly not all. Should be interesting to see how it works out but I wouldn’t bet my business on the outcome.
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i-b-goB
Big Wall climber
Nutty
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Apr 15, 2019 - 08:16pm PT
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It must be Tax time!
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 15, 2019 - 08:19pm PT
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Nutagain! Thank you for your thoughtfull post. I agree.
If I want specific standard beta on a certain climb, I will go to mountain project after using the supertopo topo if it exists. If I want expert climber opinion and stories about a certain climb, I would come to supertopo. But, with the new rules, the real gold of supertopo (the people who can share the stories) are at risk of being driven away by rules that bore the heck out of experienced climbers who don’t want to talk about climbing all the time.
I’ve got no problem blocking copyrighted content. But what exactly is it that keeps eyeballs returning to this site? It’s not people coming to check for the latest beta on Royal Arches. It’s people returning to rub shoulders with climbing legends and heroes, to connect with old friends, to make new friends and to realize that a few years of wasting time in silly non-climbing conversations has led to making new online friends that become real life friends and climbing partners.
There needs to be an exchange of value and satisfaction to keep this site alive. I don’t think it can compete for raw climbing beta compared to mountain project. The heroes and legends and experienced folks who answer questions that make supertopo special, well they (we?) need a reason to come here day after day. Waiting for a n00b to ask an interesting question is not enough. No fair exchange of value, not sustainable.
Of course, this is only my opinion, probably shared by many, but certainly not all. Should be interesting to see how it works out but I wouldn’t bet my business on the outcome.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 15, 2019 - 08:41pm PT
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From Mike F: "Although I rarely, if ever post in political discussions I have a hard time with this. If we discuss land policies that affect climbing access are those political topics or climbing topics? If we discuss global warming, which has implications on climbing conditions and sustainability is that a political topic or a climbing topic? If we discuss social conditions that give the privileged leisure time to recreate (climb) while those who aren't in that class can't afford or don't have the time is that a political topic or a climbing topic.
We are climbers and we're also humans. We should care about social conditions that affect all of us. The lack of civic engagement is a serious problem in this country that has resulted in us having, well, Trump. We should be encouraging more civic engagement, not less."
And Nut again's last post explain perfectly why I come to this site.
As suggested, real names would go a long way to improving the level of discourse.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 15, 2019 - 08:46pm PT
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You always seem to have a balanced, nuanced way of looking at things Nut.
I appreciate that.
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