LA Times Article about Gov Shutdown & Chaos in JT

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bouldering88

climber
Jan 8, 2019 - 12:33pm PT
News says The park will close

"Joshua Tree National Park will temporarily close at 8 am on Thursday, January 10, to allow staff to address sanitation, safety, and resource protection issues in the park that have arisen during the lapse in appropriations."

per twitter


uh oh, where do i send Airbnb guest to boulder? SEcton six, Ghost rocks, Giant rock. help me obi wan knobi.
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Jan 11, 2019 - 09:44am PT

https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/joshua-tree-damage-government-shutdown-offroading-13524335.php
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Jan 13, 2019 - 07:48pm PT
Very interesting that some want to close the gates to protect the parks, yet don't think the same thing would protect our border against the same kind of lawlessness and such. You folks are too much.

On a brighter note, just donated my entrance fee(actually a little more since I didn't know how much it was) on the Friends website. Hope it helps.

http://www.friendsofjosh.org/donate/support-us/

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 13, 2019 - 07:58pm PT
False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which two completely opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:02pm PT
I see the point you were trying to make ap, but, I think you might be missing the point. If gates and fences protect a park, why would a fence/wall, etc protect the country?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:04pm PT
Itís not the same thing, Jody.
John M

climber
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:28pm PT
I see the point you were trying to make ap, but, I think you might be missing the point. If gates and fences protect a park, why would a fence/wall, etc protect the country?

Different motivations for the main reason people are entering a place. Very few people would walk the many miles necessary to see Yosemite if the gates were closed. Most of them don't want it as much as the people who want to enter America want what they want Which is the american dream.

Higher motivation means more things will be tried. Like buying or building a 16 foot ladder for a 15 foot wall. Or digging a tunnel. Or going where there isn't a wall. Because at this point 5 billion dollars won't buy a complete wall across the entire border. So its mostly blowing smoke.

Gates work when the vast majority of people are willing to respect them.


Edit: that said.. I wish that we would get back to negotiating instead of saying "my way or the highway". I have been watching Jordan Peterson videos and he explains why we need both the conservative point of view and the liberal point of view, but what we need is a balance between the two.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:36pm PT
Cost of the Government Shutdown? Billions and Rising. It's Cheaper To Keep the Government Running
By GLENN FLEISHMAN January 9, 2019
http://fortune.com/2019/01/09/govt-shutdown-2019-costs-billions/

The partial government shutdown comes with a high price: in the billions, maybe tens of billions of dollars so far, and increasing in scale daily. It costs more to shutter the government than to keep it open, so long as accumulated bills and deferred salaries are eventually paid as they have following all previous temporary closures. And the lack of spending drags down the countryís economy, especially in communities with government workers or those near national parks.

Standard and Poorís estimated in 2017 that a full government shutdown would cost the U.S. economy about $6.5 billion a week. This partial shutdown affects only about a quarter of government spending, a little under half of all federal employees (about 800,000), and some significant agencies, such as the IRS and Homeland Security. In departments without current funding, about 425,000 employees are required to report to work without pay.




Trump's wall is all about politics...trying to serve his base's base instincts, even though such a wall has limited actual value in achieving border security, and will result in the loss of huge amounts of personal property due to the eminent domain necessary to build it. How can any self-respecting conservative who believes in individual sovereignty believe this is the right strategy?
bouldering88

climber
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:40pm PT
hmm. lets look at the books of any non profit we donate to. prudence may be needed.
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:40pm PT
Trump's wall is all about politics

And the Dems not supporting what they did under another president is NOT politics? LOL!
John M

climber
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:41pm PT
he didn't say or imply that Jody..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:42pm PT
Trump made his decision to make his wall a central element in his campaign, and tie it to a federal gov't budget. That's his decision, regardless of what anyone else did before him.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:43pm PT
Trump accepted a $25 billion deal for a wall in exchange for a DACA deal a year ago, but soon backed out,cuz it wasn't far enough to the right.

Since then, DACA has been upheld and the dems took over the house. Too late to go back.

Trump as a master negotiator is hilarious.

https://bearingdrift.com/2018/12/13/as-a-shutdown-looms-a-reminder-that-trump-already-turned-down-a-border-wall-deal-twice/

edit: Jody keeps forgetting a fence is not a wall.
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Jan 14, 2019 - 07:20am PT
hmm. lets look at the books of any non profit we donate to. prudence may be needed.

Why do you say that? Did I just throw my money away?

Let me know, I don't have time to look at their books.
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