Camalots, anyone else had this issue

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Messages 1 - 32 of total 32 in this topic
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 19, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
I'm outta the loop so forgive me if this has already been addressed and please point me in the best direction:

Aiding at 4750m in Tibet this happened. Previously were fine but only normal trade use.
Serials between 8159A and 8346A.

Sorry for shite photo quality.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 19, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
The best direction is Black Diamond customer service...they have always been helpful to me.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Nov 19, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
I know this is obvious but maybe due to the cold?
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Nov 19, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
Shite cable coating quality!

Those plastic edges can be sharp.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Nov 20, 2018 - 07:28am PT
Seems like a trade off for being tough enough at normal climbing temps vs not being too brittle in cold weather. Maybe they should have a coating range for different temps like surf wax. But then how many crazy people would buy the cold weather version?

;)
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Nov 20, 2018 - 10:12am PT
Donini would
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 20, 2018 - 10:48am PT
The original Camalots came with bare cables. A fat wad of duct tape will fix it. The next generation of Camalots came with a piece of plastic that covered the wire.

edit: or just clip it with a biner
Bale

Mountain climber
UT
Nov 20, 2018 - 02:32pm PT
ďIím outta the loopĒ, indeed, in more ways than one:)
BD is pretty solid with warranties, let us know what you find.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 20, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
breakalots
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Nov 20, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
cut those old slings off and the loose pieces off and clip a draw on it.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2018 - 06:13pm PT
Appreciate the pragmatic replies.

Yes onto BD when back home.

It wasn't actually that cold when climbing, but very cold the rest of the time. Aliens, metolius, totems seem unaffected. Will check larger sizes tho we didn't really use them/freed the hand widths.

Yes will just clip em. Really just wondering if this had been raised ages ago and I'd missed an 'everyone knows that' detail.

'Outta the loop' ha yes, Freudian spot.
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Nov 21, 2018 - 10:36am PT
Itís impossible to say without photos of the route?


Hey what do you consider ďvery coldĒ? Like Alaska winter time cold? Just curious, it shouldnít matter. Your gear shouldnít break because itís cold...
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Nov 21, 2018 - 03:41pm PT
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
JK, day temps to just above freezing, nights -20c. Def not cold enough for problems I think.
As Moose points out, other places way colder. No other plastics seem affected.

CCmn, cams within 5 years old. Noticed them disintegrating when standing on them but wasn't at the coldest times at all, could be they were affected before...?

No route shots till we finish it ;) let's just say stunning, tho we are a man down, making the unsupported approach very dark indeed. headed back out in a week after rest for another round.

If anyone's hanging around China with the gear and will there's a place open. All the yak you can eat.
WBraun

climber
Nov 21, 2018 - 05:01pm PT
UV degradation and or sh!tty materials .... ??
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 21, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
Ozone degradation, were they stored near any large electric motors
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Nov 21, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
Where I China? Iím unemployed until spring... what are the prices like?
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
Re various degradation; its some sort but they've just not had that much use, nothing abnormal. Like most of us I've seen fixed camalots left for years on routes and they've not had this issue.
The plastic is easily pulled off with fingers.
Ozone an interesting thought tho, will check.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
JK, Sichuan - Tibet border, charlie fowler territory very much so.
Its not India cheap, but then we've got a good relationship for logistics, LO, permits etc. Its too cold to dirt bag things. Several objective options, style is pretty much walls, unsupported, to about 6000m, new routes. But open to any ideas that work.

Find you way to chengdu. A lot of the gear here, just need a few things like some cams....

COT

climber
Door Number 3
Nov 23, 2018 - 03:45am PT
If you end up in the Genyen region there's plenty to climb
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
Yes been round Ge'nyen a bit, agree there's heaps to get on, especially from the west.
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Nov 23, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
Whatís involved in getting permits? Mandatory LO that accompanies you to basecamp like Iíve heard? Or is there a way around that? What kind of permit prices would someone be looking at? How long does it take to get permits? Visa requirements? Time to get visas? Tell me some more? Iím looking for somewhere to go.

COT

climber
Door Number 3
Nov 24, 2018 - 02:43am PT
Hmm...

A Chinese visa is easy to get (google it) and you can generally travel on your own in Yunnan, Qinghai and Sichuan (where these photos of the Genyen Region were taken) Tibet is another ballgame. Permits are also another issue.

The Sichuan Mountaineering Association will issue permits to foreign climbers, but the rules and prices change constantly. They sometimes charge ridiculous permit fees, and everyone is trying fill their pockets but they are basically trying to prevent ill prepared (foreign) climbers from getting hurt or killed in the mountains as the upper government has little tolerance for bad PR associated with westerners dying in Chinese mountains.

Also when Charlie and Chris (who didn't get permits) went missing the Chinese government "said" the local monks had something to do with their disappearance and used this excuse to ransack the Lengu monastery, going through all the monks personal belongings. As you can image the monks were not psyched.

Chinese climbers almost never get permits in this area, but if you don't speak Mandarin or are traveling with someone who does your options are pretty limited in terms of "dirt-bagging" up an alpine peak in China. I've done around a dozen trips to explore and climb new routes in the region and most of the time didn't get permits, but my wife is fluent in Mandarin.

If your interested PM me and I can send you some contacts for some Chinese guiding services that handle logistics for foreign climbing teams.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2018 - 05:25am PT
Jk, much like COT says.
Visa you will get easily, sometimes they want proof of flights, hotels etc.
Permits; for the last 10 years I've got them as some places demand them and its worth having the SMC onside. There's been real issues over recent years for those nabbed without them. Depending what you want to climb I maybe be able to slide things thru on some existing permits. Maybe.
LO I get too as I have a good friend who is one, he also translates, does transport, trouble shoots, gets us into and out of places and has encyclopedic knowledge of the region. He goes where he needs to be and climbs a bit, but its not like Pakistan where there's any authority.
Costs depend what you want to climb, how long, altitude etc.

Something to note; its f*#king cold out there now. We've been doing walls and all the gear is reaching the limit of what 2-3 can carry and acclimate nicely. Its 6-7000m gear but no nice BC tents etc, so work with that in mind. Obviously its still dropping too.

What are your ideas?
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Nov 24, 2018 - 03:05pm PT
Hey thanks guys. Iíll try that PM function again. If I wonít work iíll Leave an email here. Hope you donít mind if I pick both your brains a little? Thanks a ton
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2018 - 05:18pm PT
Jk, sure. Or try me at iceclimbingJapan at hotmail dot com. I'm back out there from the first week of Dec but mostly round till then. After than could do something in Jan.

Re permits, I get that they cost but its kinda the way it goes. Pirate ascents are cool but for serious winter stuff I like the backup smooth logistics. That bit of paper opens doors.
Re getting them, a few days. A friend who's ex SMA so can grease the process.

Search Nakamura's East of the Himalaya for a look at what's out there.
COT

climber
Door Number 3
Nov 24, 2018 - 10:00pm PT
probably easier to contact me at kondus (at) mac (dot) com

The Sigunaing Range 6 hours (if the new road hasn't been washed out) from Chengdu and has been a popular area with local and foreign climbers for decades. Big mountains, aid lines, splitter cracks, alpine ridge and road side ice climbing in the winter. Search the AAJ website and you will find a lot of info. The climbing areas are located within the national park and daily entrance and camping fees are required.

Unfortunately access can be shut down unexpectedly. For example a few years back an ill prepared backpacker died while scrambling. The Park's answer was to close the entire region to everything except day hiking for the next 6 months.

Here are a couple vids I made about the area, the first is in English second Chinese and will give you an idea of the region
https://vimeo.com/155247461
https://vimeo.com/83087677

I agree with ecdh, getting permits is usually the best way to go. Usually they are not cost prohibitive especially on peaks below 6000m. If you do end up going I would recommend trying to support the local Tibetan economy as much as possible. Almost all the money paid to the mountaineering associations and tour operators end up the Chinese pockets leaving the local Tibetans out.


cheers
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2018 - 05:54am PT
COT, siguniang area currently easy access, new road makes it about 4hrs, tunnel open etc. Lodges open inside but need connections to avoid the shuangqiao bus shuffle. Changping mostly good tho siguniangs main sister might be on the list.
Only issue is a few peaks are restricted this year, inc seerdengpu which we tried for. Ice will be fine but peaks will def need permits.

Re spending locally - 100%. Always use locally run hotels and transport, eat in small places, talk direct with locals when in Tibetan areas. Go for a minimal footprint too, slide thru as self supported and low key as possible.

If you have $200 spare, Nakamura's huge book is XXX rated mountain porn.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
Timely update. I've been hanging out with a guy from the sma who was contacted re a trip we start soon into the minya konka area. Thinking it involved us, there's been concern about some climbers - local and foreign - who've had an accident, without the correct permits in place. Names and details intentionally obscured, but it shows how real the rules are. Not only is the foreign element now in the sh#t, but there's a knock on to other teams. Our paper work is all in order, which is good as its being checked, along with all other teams here right now, including a foreign team who thought they'd go under the radar but now having second thoughts.
Seriously, scenarios like this play out every season. Folks forget how connected China all is, not hard to get spotted on the radar.
More relevant details if I hear any.
jonnywoodward

climber
Dec 6, 2018 - 07:51pm PT

"This defective gear thread has morphed nicely into the China beta thread. :)"

Back OT.
Cat piss. It really does a number on motorcycle tires, too.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Dec 7, 2018 - 02:24am PT
Just a thought...we have that cracking and shite happen around this part of the world not due to the cold, but the opposite-too hot for extended periods of time (even indoors).

I've had shoes delam, soles crack and fall into dust, plastic tubing stiffen up then eventually crack, anything glued fall to pieces...etc. Maybe that?

Or just a bad batch of plastic.

Back to China.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2018 - 07:42am PT
Thanks all. Headed back out tomorrow for another attempt, this time colder and some new cams, so will report on if it happens again.

Watch this space
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