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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 18, 2019 - 04:16pm PT
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hey there say, just checking up on happiegrrrl....
as, as to this quote, juan madera:
A tip for making brakes last longer: Many people don't manually downshift their automatic transmissions, or even know how/when to do that. Save your brake wear by downshifting on grades. You probably have the 4-speed automatic with an overdive (4th gear) on and off button on the end of the shifter knob. Turning off the overdrive puts it in 3rd gear for descending grades on highways steep enough to have to apply brakes. Slower speed grades (maybe 35 to 40 mph) select 2nd gear. On a typical roundtrip up and over the mountains, I might manually shift my heavy E350 van 20+ times, almost never touching the brakes. If you already know this info, sorry.
Hope this info helps.
wow, things like this, folks like (simple local drivers, in medium sized towns) well, wow-- i'd never know...
my then, husband, back in the day, would, but wow... :O
thanks so much for teaching us all...
i sure won't need it, but, many sure will... again,
thanks for helping terrie/happie, here...
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Feb 18, 2019 - 04:32pm PT
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Ok I'm fairly mechanical and operated a wide variety of machinery/heavy equipment for what that's worth. I guess it means I know one thing: treat your vehicles respectfully. Driving at the right speed I feel is huge. So...…..I am uncertain of what others posted about dropping your vehicle into a lower gear coming down hills. My super A type neighbor mechanic tells me brakes are cheaper than transmissions so don't do that ! I could probably look that up on google but that would not be as fun as the taco conversation. Please clear this up for me.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 18, 2019 - 05:00pm PT
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On super steep grades you have the choice to either downshift or heat your brakes up to smoking level. For normal hills I would agree to save the tranny and let er roll. one of my tricks on the old Astro is to save the outside pad when I am changing pads. the inside pad has all the wear but the outside pad usually has plenty of meat left. I put the spare pad in the road trip tool box. Very handy! you can fix on the spot if need be.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 18, 2019 - 05:10pm PT
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but don’t drive like a Subaru either.
hey! I resemble that remark. Dropped a 2000cc in my 99 Forester (2500cc is stock), a little slow off the line but no speeding tickets and my brakes are lasting forever. Oh, and to hell with the guy tailgating me
as for carrying used brake pads. come on dude, it is so easy to check pad wear, why would you even risk interrupt a road trip with a repair. Save your space for belts and hoses.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Feb 18, 2019 - 05:13pm PT
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tradmanclimbs:
For normal hills I would agree to save the tranny and let er roll. What is "normal hill"?
What is elevation loss threshold when I need to start downshifting?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 18, 2019 - 05:26pm PT
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big effin long hill with lots of switchbacks. Red Mtn Pass, Bear Tooth pass etc. Some places in W. virginia, smugglers notch in Vt etc. If you start to smell your own brakes and there is a cloud of smoke behind you, you should have downshifted.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 18, 2019 - 05:30pm PT
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John. I put new pads on before the trip but carried a spare because the trip had potential to go over 10k miles. one of the new calipers I put on felt sticky. I asked if they had another one but that was the last one in stock. the trip ended up being about 9K miles and I had to use that spare pad a few weeks after getting home. Greases the heck out of the caliper but it still feels like crap. a few months later I had to toss another spare in there.. Due to check it again soon.
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Feb 18, 2019 - 05:52pm PT
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This sounds like reasonable logic to me. Just want to publicly clarify. I agree with STEEP downhills. Once again lowering your speed seems the ticket. I bought a vintage 23 Silver streak trailer I am refurbing. Towed it down a pretty good pass to it's temp home last fall. Keep hearing about trailer stabilizers as the ticket . She did pretty good without one but ...I'm a gonna check in with that logic too. Not so long ago, drove a crazy semi rig (double decker grand canyon rafts) that taught me there just isn't enough mountain pass in your travels to go into one 'hot' ;)
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2019 - 06:09pm PT
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I loved the Lucy and Ricky clip...
Last autumn, I had smoking brakes when I came over the mountains between Prescott and Jerome. Luckily there was a big scenic lookout to pull off to, and I sat there for like 2 hours. Talked to plenty of guys and just like here, they all had different opinions, sometimes conflicting.
So, I am not sure about any downshifting on descents with my van. Because, as I said, it doesn't have a second gear on the gear selector.
It has 1, D, overdrive D, N, R, P.
I tried using the low gear for about 30 seconds on the rest on that downhill last year. The rpms(?) were very quickly too high. It was clearly not the right thing to do.
Another guy said that even if disc brakes are overheated, they'll still stop you. Is that accurate?
I drive as DMT described, BUT, the van gets rolling quivkly very easily on downhills of any grade.
I assume I should just not be in Overdrive on the mountains.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 18, 2019 - 06:11pm PT
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you did the right thing. pull off and let them cool down.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2019 - 06:29pm PT
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Oh yeah...appointment tomorrow morning for the brakes.
I borrowed the amount I didn't have from my sister. I'd rather not have to do that, but driving while knowing they needed repair was just bad. So, I made the appointment knowing that it would force me to borrow if I couldn't make the amount needed on time.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Feb 18, 2019 - 08:28pm PT
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Happiegrrrl2,
I'm not sure about your transmission. I went back to old threads and saw your van is a 1990 E150, 5.8L (351 CID V8). Ford had a 3 speed and a 4 speed automatic in that year. Guessing yours is the 4 speed due to displaying "D-Overdrive". Apparently, there is no option to select 2nd gear and lock it in to 2nd).
Suggest that you consult your owner's manual about gear selection and downshifting instructions for the specific vehicle. But, sounds like "D" (non-overdrive) would be 3rd gear and help slow the van with engine braking on downgrades. While climbing, even on moderate long grades, selecting 3rd gear would let the engine rev to a higher RPM. That puts the engine into RPM range with more horsepower and torque. It also prevents the transmission from "hunting" back and forth between 3rd and 4th, saving wear stress on the tranny.
Front (disc) brakes tend to wear out faster than rear (drum brakes on your E150), probably by approx. 2:1. (2 front brake jobs to 1 rear brake job).
Another guy said that even if disc brakes are overheated, they'll still stop you. Is that accurate? An oversimplification, and a dangerous one. True that disc brakes will dissipate heat better and tend to stop better than drum brakes when hot. But they will still "fade" (overheating causes the pads to ride over hot gasses between pads and rotor, stopping power is reduced). Riding the brakes down a mountain could cause another type of fade as the hydraulic fluid boils. The brake pedal will feel spongy. Once the brakes are into serious fade, stopping distance will be horrid. Or not at all. Ever see those runaway truck ramps on major downgrades?
Brake fade is a strong reason to downshift and avoid riding the brakes.
I assume I should just not be in Overdrive on the mountains. Correct, IMHO.
I tried using the low gear for about 30 seconds on the rest on that downhill last year. The rpms(?) were very quickly too high. It was clearly not the right thing to do. Low (1st gear) may sometimes be appropriate for a very steep, slow descent. Less than 25 or 30 mph. Not frequently encountered in normal driving. Offroading extreme descents, one uses low range 4x4 in 1st gear. The engine does the braking, while the wheels are still turning to provide steering control.
neebee,
You're welcome. Thanks for replying that it is useful info. Sometimes I hold back on giving info, due to worrying about sounding condescending if someone already knows.
Blinny,
That is absolutely an important question to ask, and glad you did. My answer is "Yes". While towing, the proper selection of gears is far more important than in normal driving. Towing puts the drivetrain under more stress. The brakes are at or beyond the limit they were engineered for (regardless of what the manufacturer touts).
Very nice camping trailer :) Great that you have electric brakes on your trailer. In addition to improved stopping distance, you can slow or stop more safely and maintain control.
That prevents "jackknife" situations and trailer sway when stopping.
Do you check your electric brake function before departing on a trip? If not, add it to your routine with lights check. Your brake controller should have a lever within reach of the driver to activate manually. Read the manual for your controller. Should be able to do a slow test run, 10-15mph, and without using the foot brake pedal, activate the trailer brakes. That should at least slow you down a little. Activating fully might lay down some skid marks, ideally equally. Alternatively, with a helper to activate the electric brakes, you should hear a humming noise from the electromagnets at each trailer wheel (put your ear next to each wheel).
If you tow frequently and want additional safety while towing, you might invest in a weight distributing hitch (AKA: equalizer hitch).
Combined with one of these friction devices, I've had great results pulling heavy trailers in high winds on mountain grades. Example:
https://www.curtmfg.com/weight-distribution/sway-control
Or, there are some weight distributing hitches with built-in sway control. (I haven't used those). https://www.equalizerhitch.com/how-equalizer-works
Pennsylenvy,
...vintage 23 Silver streak trailer... Towed it down a pretty good pass...Keep hearing about trailer stabilizers as the ticket . She did pretty good without one but ...I'm a gonna check in with that logic too. See above on equalizer hitches and sway control. I wouldn't tow a 23' trailer without that setup, unless on a flat and straight highway. Worth every penny and the 5 extra minutes to hitch up.
Hope this helps everyone...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 18, 2019 - 10:11pm PT
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Do equalizer bars also provide sway control? I have used equalizers to level loads, they work great. The company trucks and trailers had no sway control though, never really seemed like we needed it, just towing on LA freeways.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2019 - 08:20am PT
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We have that type at the Gunks, though they're not limited to being Suburu drivers. It's so annoying, as the main roads between the cliffs and New Paltz are pretty much marked no passing the whole way.
On the roads across America, I see so many drivers who just WON'T use the slow lane on hills. Not that I am thinking of passing anyone, but if I'm in the slow lane and they're clogging the passing lane barely going faster...
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2019 - 10:20am PT
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I'm going to try to be aware of the Subie Syndrome. I wouldn't have said I noticed that at all, more that it's people in wannabe sports cars that speed up/ slow down to keep *you* behind them, and definitely pickups who won't use the pullout lanes or slow lanes, but will just stay there in the passing lane as if they are going to filmed in a gone viral clip on Youtube titled "Pussy Drivers" if they do.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, Bozeman, the ocean, or ?
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Feb 19, 2019 - 10:29am PT
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Hey Ekat...is that your house? Was it for sale a couple months ago?
It looks very similar to one that was in a Montana Real Estate listings mag that comes to my place in Bozeman.
Anyway..,if it isn’t the same it’s a clone.
Susan
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Feb 19, 2019 - 12:08pm PT
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Blinny,
Interestingly, my Toyota dealer (where I bought the Sienna, new.) tells me I should just run cruise control. The "Master Mechanic" who works on her said. . . and I quote, "Let that highly technological machine think for itself - that's why you bought a Toyota!"
?
So far, so good.
When the cruise control seems to shift too often, on hills, I turn it off and control it myself.
On hills or long grades, when the transmission is shifting too often between the higher gears (aka: "hunting"), you are right to turn off the cruise control. Additionally, choose the lower of the two gears being hunted. For example, when a 4 speed overdrive is hunting between 3rd and 4th gears, turn off the overdrive so that it stays in 3rd gear.
Automatic transmissions have internal clutches with friction material that wears. The back and forth shifting under load is not kind to it.
If you have a tachometer, keep an eye on it. The idea is that you don't want to be in the low RPM range (say low 2000s). That is where you have fuel economy but little power. Ascending grades while towing calls for more power. Depending on the vehicle, that is probably in the 3000+ RPM range. A little 4 cylinder maybe 4,000+. Shifting down a gear may let you use 3/4 throttle to maintain the same speed that you were making with the higher gear and your foot to the floor.
Modern automatic transmissions are electronically controlled, and many vehicles have a switch for economy or power mode. Power mode lets the engine rev higher before shifting up which is good for towing or mountain driving.
It's funny, I was just thinking the other day about how I miss my manual transmissions. I know exactly which gear I want to choose and when I want it. Dumbed down automatics can't think for me. So I'm always trying to manually flog them into behaving the way I want, when I want.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2019 - 05:28pm PT
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Chaps Ekat! happie. do you make wallets? I don't keep money in it just cards and ID but a pocket for receipts sometimes gets used.. Mine is on it's last legs.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 28, 2019 - 10:02am PT
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hey there say... bump.... :)
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