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Messages 1 - 45 of total 45 in this topic |
Floorabove
climber
The Gunks y'all
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 8, 2018 - 04:41am PT
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I’m sorry for you on the West coast that will wake up to this horrible news.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Nutty
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Prayers for all those involved. People want something done about guns. There should be armed security at bigger venues. It should be the law that if anyone uses a gun during a crime or assault the penalty would be an automatic life sentence! But unfortunately those that do these kinds of mass shootings don't care if they die! They just said the suspect was an ex-military Marine, Ian David Long with PTSD, he used a handgun. To bad he didn't get mental health care treatment so it didn't end like this. Condolences!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Side effect of psychiatric drugs.
Side effect of a highly incompent mental health industry.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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This is so sad and due to it's proximity to my home and the community I live in, it hits especially hard. My condolences to all the families and friends of the victims and especially to the friends and relatives of the brave Sherriff's Deputy who was the first responder and shot as he entered the bar.
I am a passionate 2nd ammendment supporter but but the time to act to prevent these acts of insanity is now. We especially need a more robust mental health care system.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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PLEASE, SIR, MAY I HAVE SOME STRONGER GUN LAWS?
My condolences to the community and to the officers and patrons whose lives were ended.
You cannot trust today's John Q. Public with firearms. How many times does it need to be said?
Talkin' to a frickin' wall, here.
Take that "passion" and stick it, Levy.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Prayers helps the prayers and that comfort is good. What this country really needs is some substantive action to protect people from future gun violence.
The gun culture that has developed in America is absolutely shocking and has no parallel in the industrialized world.
It is not just the avaiability of weapons it is the “culture” of guns that permeates our society. The weapons used in slaughtering our fellow humans (pistols and semi automatic rifles) are designed exclusively for killing humans...nobody hunts with them.
Sometimes I feel ashamed to be an American.
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A Essex
climber
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Trump doesn't care...
...one little bit
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Trump does care....
Big news stories like this take the focus away from him....tough stuff for a narcissist.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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A short while ago a former Supreme Court Justice (Brennan I think) opined that it might be appropriate to repeal the 2nd Amendment. I agree.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Trump doesn't care...
...one little bit
he will blame it on California democrats.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I doubt Trump has a strong personal opinion about gun control...if anything, my guess is that he personally believes they should have stronger controls.
How it plays politically, however, is an entirely different matter. He knows damn well that his base have been well-programmed to believe it is the central issue to being an American, and therefore Trump will serve those interests (and resultant votes) with whatever rhetoric they want to hear.
Politics of this issue are insane. My great condolences to all involved directly and indirectly in this most recent tragedy.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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A gunman who killed 12 people at a Thousand Oaks bar was a former U.S. Marine who may have been suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, the Ventura County sheriff said.
Ian David Long, 28, lived in Newbury Park, not far from the club where he threw smoke bombs and rained bullets on a crowd of more than a hundred people Wednesday night.
Sheriff Geoff Dean said his department had had several interactions with Long, including a call to his home in April for a complaint of disturbing the peace. Deputies at the time said Long was irate and acting irrationally, Dean said. They called in mental health professionals to evaluate him, and they concluded he did not need to be taken into custody.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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This is completely insane for this particular community. I grew up near Thousand Oaks- violence, crime and gun-toting wack-jobs is far outside what anyone living there would expect. I guess there are no "safe" communities any longer.
Donini:The gun culture that has developed in America is absolutely shocking and has no parallel in the industrialized world.
It is bizarre that America has gone down this dark path. I don't know what the solution is. The NRA holds too much sway, testosterone-ridden gun fanatics refuse to see reason or compromise and most Americans seem totally indifferent after the initial shock wears off. Any discussion about gun control actually just makes gun-nuts rush out and by 10 new guns they wouldn't have otherwise purchased. ( I know- I have a close friend who does this with some regularity any time a gun-control proposal is even mentioned) . There is not a good solution to dealing with the mentally ill people who own guns.
Meh.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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..he will blame it on xxxxxxxxxxxxx ...
Blame falls on the killer. Maybe start there. Root causes and all...
Instead, politicians climb on top of the dead to make whatever squishy platform they can. Every single time. Gets old.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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It is bizarre that America has gone down this dark path. I don't know what the solution is.
To paraphase John Bachar Sr., the US needs a Department of Peace, instead of a Department of Defense. I don't know the history of the gunman, but it certainly must be troubling to do what many members of the armed forces are trained for.
'The Department of Defense, as decades of history show, is a euphemism for Department of War. By contrast, a Department of Peace would be dedicated to the resolution of conflicts by exhaustive, peaceful, nonviolent, non-threatening means, rather than by the use or threats of force if “irresolvable” impasses in negotiations ultimately occur. In short, let’s agree to disagree and coexist without killing each other.' - John Bachar Sr.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Police made contact with him in April and called in a mental health team to clam him down. That should have been enough to revoke his right to own firearms. Got to vote for Democrats to get any change
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Yes, blame the perpetrator but keep in mind...there are deranged people in other countries but the outcomes are not the same.
The “gun culture” and the incredibly easy access to weapons designed to kill people makes America different...don’t you all feel proud.
Keep America exceptional!
Safeguard tge Second Amendment and the death penalty.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Got to vote for Democrats to get any change
Since 1958 the Dems have controlled both houses of the CA legislature except for a couple years. Why hasn’t that worked?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Side effect of psychiatric drugs.
Side effect of a highly incompent mental health industry.
Side effect of a mentally deranged gun lobby. I'm looking at you Wayne LaPierre.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Thanks once again to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for gun freedom.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Just as the New Deal saved capitalism (at least that's what many believe), gun owners and advocates are going to have to agree to some meaningful restrictions and check / balances on gun ownership, if they want to keep them at all.
Let's hope for some reasonable solutions instead of demonizing large segments of the population, almost all of whom are decent, law abiding citizens. And let's not forget that other countries do in fact have both mass shootings and mass killings by other means, albeit not at the same rate as the US. And as much as the take-away-everyone's-gun folks deny it, it's entirely reasonable to believe that an armed citizenry may play a role in combating repressive government, civil insurrection and crime, foreign invasion, etc., even if that's not your belief.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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"Since 1958 the Dems have controlled both houses of the CA legislature except for a couple years. Why hasn’t that worked? "
Obvious to most people:
California can not override the 2nd amendment extreme court rulings and effects.
More importantly,
how many murders like this were there in the 70s?
Did returning soldiers at that time take it out on fellow citizens?
Or has something changed: Kook Extremism, mostly by the Alt-right.
Which is also somewhat similar to gang violence (mostly by minorities).
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Since 1958 the Dems have controlled both houses of the CA legislature except for a couple years. Why hasn’t that worked?
California has a lower gun violence rate than some of the more "rugged individual" (macho man with a semi-automatic penis extension) states, such as Texas.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jon, that may be true but given such a lengthy legislative majority it does rather beg the question of why aren’t better laws in place to take guns away from known nutters? Given how hard it is to get courts and cops to protect women against known threats maybe it isn’t for lack of laws?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Very sad. If the man was having flashbacks and felt he was in war, it's just horrible. He would be as much a victim of our health care problems - and gun laws- as any of the poor people who were killed. Not to diminish their pain and suffering in any way.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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why aren’t better laws in place to take guns away from known nutters?
NRA and an outdated Constitution? We need an amendment badly
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Politicians will not legislate this-lawsuits have to happen and the insurance companies could make it very expensive to own a handgun--money is the only thing that matters to these people-I'm just stupid but I don't think the politicians will do anything until you start voting them out-even the Las Vegas incident resulted in no change. And statistically- the most likely person to be killed by your hand gun is yourself by your own hand
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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And statistically- the most likely person to be killed by your hand gun is yourself by your own hand
So what? Suicide rates aren't higher in the US than other industrialized countries (well higher than some, lower than others). If it's easy to get guns, of course they'll be used for suicide as they are an obvious way to do it. But people in other countries don't seem to have any problem taking their own life.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Thoughts and prayers and candlelight vigils don't do sh#t. When will we ever learn?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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“It is often said that people would kill themselves anyway, even if they didn't have access to guns,” Dr Nestadt said.
“There is an entire body of research that tells us that is simply not true.”
He pointed to previous research which found 71 per cent of people acted on suicidal thoughts within an hour of having them.
“If there is no gun around, many people won’t have the means to follow through on those impulses, or would use a less lethal method with a much greater chance of survival,” Dr Nestadt said.
“Suicide is an impulse and can only be carried out by firearm if there is a gun in the drawer. Any barrier you can put up can work.”
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ec
climber
ca
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Pray to whom?
No prayer is gonna make things better for anyone.
We need action on mental health issues.
ec
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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So I've been curious about this for awhile. PTSD, aka shell shock, has been around ever since there has been war, but mass shootings have been a fairly new result. why?
I am also not convinced that everybody who commits a mass shooting is mentally ill. Many of the shooters want attention, even if they are dead.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Repeal.
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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I will not be saying any prayers for the victims in Thousand Oaks. No disrespect to them and their families. Prayers are not what they need now.
I will be saying prayers for the politicians who just do not see what is really going on and those who are blinded by the gun makers' blood money. I will also be saying prayers to those who do not realize that mental health issues are very real and have very real consequences.
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couchmaster
climber
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Quote from Judge Alex Kozinsk: "The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once."
More gun control is so dumb. Lets get the guns out of your friends and neighbors hands so that President Trump can have more power. The executive branch controls the Justice dept, CIA, FBI and guess who's commander in chief of all the armed forces? One nutjob with a gun in a bar is a lot better than having one nutjob running the country having the guns. We already have shitloads of gun laws. Mexicos gun laws are X10 stronger than in the US -they have "common sense" gun laws coming out their ears, enough to effectively ban firearms for honest people. Yet they have almost 5 times more gun violence than in the US. It won't do anything for the US but make honest citizens criminals.
Once you start ignoring the constitution it's a small step to get your political enemies disarmed. Let's take Antifa for example...and here we are on the 80th anniversary of Kristalnacht. "...in March 1938, a new gun control law was passed in Germany. In this law, the only mention of Jews was in the part that declared a total ban on Jews from participating in the production and trade of firearms and ammunition....By the law of 1935, not only Jews, but also all political opponents of the Nazi regime, as well as Gypsies and the homeless, were treated as "untrustworthy."
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/11/what_truly_caused_the_pogrom_of_1938.html
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Lets get the guns out of your friends and neighbors hands so that President Trump can have more power."
It's hard to comprehend how anyone can believe that today's Federal Government is somehow more restrained simply because the populace owns guns.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Donini said:
Yes, blame the perpetrator but keep in mind...there are deranged people in other countries but the outcomes are not the same.
Which got me thinking. Is this true? The US is crazy on some levels--absolutely, but we are a huge country, so we're going to have more of everything, usually, but I think you'll find this list enlightening and troubling. We ARE NOT the only ones suffering from deranged psychos killing innocents. Sadly, it looks like we're at the head of the class. Of course, if you want to add in suicide bombers and the like in trouble Muslim countries, we don't even come close. I would argue those a*holz are deranged, too. This list shows attacks in countries all over the world. Messed. Up.
https://www.infoplease.com/us/crime/timeline-worldwide-school-and-mass-shootings
I believe we need some legislation that allows police to seize firearms when folks show signs of serious mental illness/distress. The devil, of course, will be in the details.
BAd
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Here's a quote from a greater legal mind than Kozinksi's (whose legal career is unfortunately better remembered by his love for porn). As former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stephens wrote recently:
Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.
For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.” The notion that a band of civilians could defend against an army of their own countrymen with their Apache helicopters, B-1 bombers, stealth weaponry, Patton and Abrams tanks, carpet bombs, etc., etc., is beyond ludicrous. That such an argument would form a legal basis for the 2nd Amendment is laughable. Although I'm licensed to appear in U.S. District Court, including the 9th District, where Kozinksi sat, I'd be embarrassed to hear any judge offer an argument of such pulp.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Nov 10, 2018 - 07:11am PT
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I hear you Fatdad. No way my 30-06 is going to win out against an F-18. I would just say, however, that a lot of well-armed people with sufficient resolve, once they start taking out high-ranking politicians, etc, might go far in getting their way. Think of all the crazy bombing we did in Vietnam. In virtually every instance, the VC were way out gunned. They had NO air force, for example, but yet they won the war. Once the Canadians and Mexicans start supplying the insurgents who fight with valor and determination against the Trump regime, you never know what will go down.
Sounds like my next novel. Anyone read Ecotopia? That's basically the story. Lib freaks in the west fight the national gov't and win! Only in fiction, I suppose.
BAd
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