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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Oct 27, 2018 - 09:32am PT
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Thank you for posting. I have been to this great stone and witnessed the abomination that is engraved on the side. Also the oppressive management that does not allow climbing. Even though there is plenty of stone out of sight of the monument that could be enjoyed.
God & Nature, the Mother Earth, rendered this great stone and evil cast it's mark upon it. It will be very difficult to restore.
There are a few good routes and some old bolts and fixed pro hidden in the NE and SE corners of the East side.
The West side was the site of mining operations at some distant past. Perfect exfoliation provided easy harvesting of building stones.
I was able to hike to the top and circumnavigate the entire stone in about 4-5 hours. It was a delight except for the monument.
OH, and the monument, as art, is really poorly done.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 27, 2018 - 12:31pm PT
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I'm not sure that confederate monument should be blown up though. I think not. Its private property not a government edifice or symbol. I think of the Taliban blowing up all those antiquities in Afghanistan and think those are probably crimes against humanity, all by themselves.
Let the defeated generals stand there and erode for 2000 years. All the tales of their stand and fall will be forgotten and the symbols they once stood for will be meaningless. I wonder if it's meaningless to African Americans. Do they see this as a useful reminder to society like the Nazi death camps in Europe? I think not.
The fear of being too politically correct and making excuses for the White Nationalist movement is something I don't understand. "They've been devastated economically" is the excuse the apologists use. "They deserve representation", "We need to reach out to them- they've been forgotten"...no, they're weak- pull the scab off!
Do White Nationalists and Trump supporters give any quarter to the "Mexican Breeders" and the "Blacks on welfare"? These are two groups who've suffered gerrymandering and institutionalized racism for generations. Where's their current radical movement in the halls of Congress?
It's important to note that the vast majority of my fellow White workers bust their asses alongside their minority coworkers and the bond we all have is unbreakable, including friendships and intermarriage. Yet, I've watched mindset of a few whites transform- they've become the besieged white man over the last decade and they want their politicians to deliver retribution.
The reality is that wages related to inflation for all workers has trended down for decades. Globalization is a Jeanne that can't be put back in the bottle-it sucks! So work harder, spend less, improve yourself and quit blaming your fellow working man. And please, stop putting the wealthy and Wallstreet on a golden pedestal- the myth of trickle down has had devastating results. Educate yourself beyond the convenience of watching Fox news. It's been supply side economics and the politicians that advance it that has screwed you for the last 30 years. Vote for policies that directly benefit you and your family.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
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Now .... That was some damn good chiseling work ... :-)
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Oct 27, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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The worst thing that people can do is to attempt to erase the past, as by demolishing something that can provide insight into past history.
After the fall of Ancient Rome, statues were defaced and thrown into the Tiber river, with the idea that erasing that aspect of the past would, somehow, bring benefit to society.
The Spanish conquistadores attempted to erase the Mayans' history by destroying all records of their existence. It is only by a failure of that attempt that we now know about their advanced civilization.
Religious fanatics have recently destroyed ancient statuary, in an attempt to erase history itself.
Nazi Germany's propaganda ubermonster Joseph Goebbels sought to do the same thing.
Just remember: what you are seeing and what you are reading, is not what is happening.
 President Trump
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.
George Orwell, 1984
Erasing history = Orwell's Memory Hole.
The United States is engaged in an absurd and ludicrous battle for reality. And, one front of that battle is to retain knowledge of an adversarial past, so that we do not repeat it.
Erasing evidence of past dastardly deeds does not erase those deeds. Indeed, it facilitates repetition of those past dastardly deeds.
Big Cam Tom
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Oct 27, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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OMG, I wish they would finish the Crazy Horse statue.
If, for no other reason, it would be emblematic of what our current civilization can do.
Someday, the Egyptians will dig up all of our trash, and put it into their museums.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Oct 27, 2018 - 05:51pm PT
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The carving will be there while. The stone is owned by the state and is protected by a state law which prohibits any alteration to the carving. The surrounding land is a state park. Although the carving was started in the 1920’s, it wasn’t completed until the early 70’s.
It would require legislative action to change the law, which is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
As for the school kids, the stone is visited by 1000’s annually to study the geology of the area and also Civil War History. It would be hard not to realize that all are not thrilled with the sight of the carving. GA history is part of the 8th grade curriculum as well as a required course in high school.
I can remember visiting Stone Mountain as a child and seeing the scaffolding hanging around the carving. To me it is nothing but a blemish to the stone and doubtful it can or will ever be anything different.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Oct 27, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
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Robert E. Lee attended the West Point Military Academy.
So, burn that place down, too.
While people are fired up, maybe they can go to the Vatican museum, and destroy anything that looks like Caligula, Nero, Caracalla or other historical villains. Is Marcus Aurelius a hero, or a villain? Destroy his visages, just in case.
And, also tear up any photos of Hitler that might be in local libraries. Jimmy Carter was weak on commies, so get rid of him, too.
And, destroy all records of what Trump has done in the last 19 months. And bomb CNN Fake News because they reported it.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 28, 2018 - 06:30am PT
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West Point, the Vatican Museum, Pictures of Hitler and Jimmy Carter are not monuments that enshrine the effort to preserve slavery. Nor is this ancient history that deserves protection.
Would you have a clay, negro stable boy decorating your yard because it happens to be benign to white folks? What's up with you people?
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Oct 28, 2018 - 12:25pm PT
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Turn it into a shooting range, 2nd amendment derp derp!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 28, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
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Sherman's March to the Sea
Savannah Campaign
Sherman's March to the Sea (also known as the Savannah Campaign) was a military campaign of the American Civil War conducted through Georgia from November 15 until December 21, 1864, by Maj. Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman of the Union Army. The campaign began with Sherman's troops leaving the captured city of Atlanta on November 15 and ended with the capture of the port of Savannah on December 21. His forces followed a "scorched earth" policy, destroying military targets as well as industry, infrastructure, and civilian property and disrupting the Confederacy's economy and its transportation networks. The operation broke the back of the Confederacy and helped lead to its eventual surrender. Sherman's bold move of operating deep within enemy territory and without supply lines is considered to be one of the major achievements of the war.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jan 19, 2019 - 08:37am PT
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His Charlottesville statue
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jan 19, 2019 - 09:04am PT
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With a Confederate victory in The War Against Northern Oppression,
might there have been no Mt. Rushmore;
and possibly no copy-cat Southern monument?
Man's efforts to "improve" nature sometimes appalls one.
This is a work which never should have been commissioned in the first place.
It's the "Hetch Hetchy syndrome," to coin a phrase.
"Oh my, we screwed up here. Let's do it over."
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jan 19, 2019 - 09:10am PT
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After watching the Ken Burns 'Civil War' series a little while ago, I came away with a very different view of that war, and Robert E. Lee. He was a brilliant tactician, and a very honorable man. The North had many opportunities to lose that war mostly due to poor military judgement...for the minimal resources Lee had, he was unbelievably effective as a leader.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jan 19, 2019 - 09:14am PT
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Rename Carson City
Burn the Stars and Stripes for the same reasons; slavery, genocide, corruption, murder and war.
I laugh at the ignorant claiming moral superiority
Sherman's "Total War" on civilians shifted to killing indians. Typical American Hero
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Jan 19, 2019 - 10:46am PT
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What good ever comes from monuments?
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Jan 19, 2019 - 12:17pm PT
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Twenty medals of honor were awarded from action at Wounded Knee.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 19, 2019 - 12:47pm PT
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The worst thing that people can do is to attempt to erase the past, as by demolishing something that can provide insight into past history.
Tom, no one is suggesting an erasure of history.
Monuments and statues are not the way that history is preserved in our culture. We are not ancient Egyptians. We use history BOOKS. Perhaps you've had occasion to use one, yourself.
Monuments are built to CELEBRATE and VENERATE someone or something.
West Point does not exist to celebrate Lee.
I do not understand why you want to CELEBRATE traitors to the United States? They fit the definition in the Constitution. They were in favor of tearing the US down. Is that your position?
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Jan 19, 2019 - 01:05pm PT
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But Ken. They were also residents of their native state. Were they to be traitors to the Feds or traitors to their very own heritage, the only one they truly knew? It's where they came from. Kinda like calling the revolutionaries traitors of their mother England, no?
Arne
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jan 19, 2019 - 01:16pm PT
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Tom, no one is suggesting an erasure of history.
Sadly, that is what's happening.
Socialism is the leading man-made cause of death and misery in human existence.
https://reason.com/archives/2018/07/27/sorry-if-youre-offended-but-socialism-le
The End of Communism by Josh London"One death," Joseph Stalin was said to have remarked, "is a tragedy, one million is a statistic." What about, one must wonder, 80 or 100 million deaths? In reading the "Black Book of Communism," a groundbreaking effort by a group of French scholars to document the human costs of communism in the 20th century, one is immediately confronted with such discomfited figures. Stephane Courtois, in his introduction, crunches the numbers:
U.S.S.R.: 20 million deaths; China: 65 million deaths; Vietnam: 1 million deaths; North Korea: 2 million deaths; Cambodia: 2 million deaths: Eastern Europe: 1 million deaths; Latin America: 150,000 deaths; Africa: 1.7 million deaths; Afghanistan: 1.5 million deaths; The international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power: about 10,000 deaths… The total approaches 100 million people killed.
https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~hpcws/asreview.htm
But today's young people see socialism as this wonderful panacea for societies ills.
I do not understand why you want to CELEBRATE traitors to the United States? They fit the definition in the Constitution. They were in favor of tearing the US down. Is that your position?
Aside from a few malcontents, Lee being labelled a traitor is a relatively new development. It wasn't until today's overly entitled SJWs got their panties in a wad at the "overt bigotry" of Confederate statues, that anyone gave them much notice.
Confederate statues? Meh. How did we go 100 years with such horrific symbols of racism and oppression being publicly displayed?
More importantly, how did these symbols remain for the last 50 years, following the huge gains of the Civil Rights Movement?
Oh yeah. Nobody gave a shit!
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