Mercy and Forbearance

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EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 19, 2018 - 06:13am PT
Wait, what? He told a pack of bullies to take a hike when they pushed? Oh, poor GOP... they were always so nice to the opposing side when they were in power. It must have crushed them to be told off when they pushed and tried to bully.

So all that talk about reaching out to the other side. Speaking loftily about the good of the nation and working together, through compromise, for the betterment of all...

It was all a load of crap. Barry was lying.

Right?

Thanks for clearing that up, xcon.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Oct 19, 2018 - 06:26am PT


Compromise with arrogance will not happen.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 19, 2018 - 06:53am PT
So what happens if the GOP repeals obamacare and cuts funding for social security...? Will the free market swoop in and rescue the millions of Americans that fell thru the cracks...?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 19, 2018 - 08:39am PT
A lot of the right vs left thing is just a smokescreen to divert people from the fact that large corporations are picking their pockets and the rich are not paying their fair share of the govt expenditures.
The Republicans are worse but that does not make the Democrats good.

Worth repeating. It will stay that way until we get money out of politics.
Trump

climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 08:41am PT
This country must find middle ground or we may be doomed. What the heck is so hard about compromise?

Good question, because it seems like it is honestly so very hard. And I think honestly acknowledging the way it’s hard for other people, and noticing the ways it’s hard for us, would probably be beneficial in overcoming it.

I think it has a lot to do with identity - our identity gets wrapped up in our beliefs, and our belief tribes, and we start to build walls of beliefs to defend our other beliefs, and to defend our belief tribes, and our identity as a righteous member of our belief tribe (in contrast to those deplorables in the other one), and to enjoy the (often psychological) benefits of being a member in good standing in our tribe.

It also probably has a lot to do with the advantages of cheating. If you can give less and get more, that’s an advantage to you individually. If that’s something that your environment let’s you get away with, then you might just do it. And if other people do it, then you get screwed by trying to act in a way that benefits everyone. Survival of the fittest has been around for an awfully long time, and I think that it’s as deeply ingrained in us as anything can be, probably for good reason.

So I think that there’s an enforcement aspect of it that’s probably important, to ensure that everyone plays fairly. And part of that enforcement aspect plays out by trash talking the other side and trying to make them be socially isolated or feel righteously shamed by their actions (while at the same time propping up our belief tribemates with confirmation of our and our tribe’s own righteousness in comparison), and doing that seems to be something that takes up a lot of people’s time and thought and actions. But the folks in the other tribe also have their own tribal belief defense mechanisms, so that often doesn’t seem to work very well.

And there’s also a belief aspect to it - that we need to build our sense of identity as all belonging to the same tribe, and that the more effectively we can do that, the more we’ll be invested to work for other people’s benefit, regardless of the differences that we (used to) use to identify our tribal allegiances. For me personally, as a white parent of other people’s black and brown children (well, they used to be only other people’s :-) ), I’m kind of more in favor of that.

But neither seems to be working all that well in the current environment.

A lot of it I think comes down to humility, and that’s not something that is very often favored or rewarded. It doesn’t do much good to believe what you believe if you don’t believe that you’re right. And if you’re right, why compromise? And we always believe that we’re right. Sometimes we probably are.

It is hard, and I admire people who are willing to acknowledge that it’s hard for other people, and who are willing to try to overcome how hard it is for themselves.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Oct 19, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
Hey, Ghost,

If you know something, say it. Saying that this or that is “obvious” is a cop-out. A response like that isn’t clever. It might be lazy.

I guess all of our problems would be rectified by turning over the reigns to just regular folks, huh?

Unfortunately, most conventional worldly problems that governments seem to be wrestling with are complicated, and sometimes remarkably complex: e.g., health services, poverty, crime, other governments with different objectives or values, limited scarce resources, education, and so on. Honest and sincere people from all walks of life have different opinions and tend to be self-serving rather than altruistic (no matter how much you pay them).

There appears to be great need and room for open minds, expertise, intelligence, wisdom, and dialogue. It’s unclear to me that common folk are engaged on those fronts.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2018 - 06:17am PT
A caravan of Nordic women was seen heading towards the US border from Canada. I wonder what Trump will do!?

Anyways, this should not be a voting issue. Eventhough I'm not religious in the least, attention to the REAL teachings of Christ would be a good start to your day. If I'm not mistaken, he was obsessed with helping the poor.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Nov 6, 2018 - 11:10am PT
Some Republicans find a lot of fault with their own party:

Sully: 'As A Former Republican, I've Already Voted. And I Voted For Democrats.'
Capt. "Sully" Sullenberger knows that this is the most significant election of a generation. And there's only one party to vote for to get us out of this mess. https://crooksandliars.com/2018/11/sully-former-republican-ive-already-voted

Longtime John McCain Aide Urges Americans To ‘Rebuke’ Donald Trump And Vote Democrat
Mark Salter, the late Arizona Republican’s former chief of staff, called on voters to “resist” for the country’s sake. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-mark-salter-vote_us_5be1b61be4b09d43e3234812


Arnold Schwarzenegger Compares Republican Party to the Titanic: 'It Is Dying' http://toofab.com/2018/03/24/arnold-schwarzenegger-republican-party-is-dying-titanic/


"Former California GOP Congressman Seeks to Launch New Political Party" https://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2018/09/22/former-california-gop-congressman-seeks-to-create-new-political-party/


"Former Republican Sen. John W. Warner has once again crossed party lines to endorse Democrat Abigail Spanberger in her tight race against GOP Rep. Dave Brat in Virginia’s 7th Congressional District.
Mr. Warner this week also threw his support behind Leslie Cockburn’s quest for the open seat in the 5th Congressional District, where the Democrat is running against Republican Denver Riggleman."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/2/former-gop-sen-john-warner-endorses-rep-brats-demo/


There’s gotta be a reason why Republican stalwarts are abdicating the party.

Bill Kristol, founder of the influential conservative magazine, The Weekly Standard, is today a leading voice of Republican opposition. Political commentator and author, George Will, once a staunch, articulate defender of the conservative movement, is urging Republicans to vote against the GOP in November.

Well-known conservative commentators, David Brooks and Max Boot, along with former conservative talk show host Charlie Sykes, all advocate against the party. Says Brooks: “Today you can be a conservative or a Republican, but you can’t be both.” Boot, author of The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right, now refers to his former party as the “white-nationalist party.” Sykes recently published How the Right Lost Its Mind.

Former national GOP operatives are also strident critics. Nicolle Wallace, who worked for George W. Bush and John McCain, says the party’s “volume business of misogyny is making moderate Republican women near extinct.”

Steve Schmidt, once named GOP Campaign Manager of the Year, renounced his party membership, saying the GOP is “filled with feckless cowards who disgrace and dishonor the legacies of the party’s greatest leaders.”
http://www.salina.com/news/20181105/why-are-gop-stalwarts-leaving
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Nov 6, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
The GOP used dog whistles and coded language with a nod and a wink for years to rile up their base, then people started to act on what was believed by the conservative leaders to be "harmless rhetoric". These same conservatives that are aghast today were part of the con that got out of control, and they deserve a special place in hell for getting us to where we are today.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Nov 6, 2018 - 02:05pm PT
I could not agree more.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Nov 6, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
The Donald was on a roll during the run-up to this mid-term election . . . you have to give him credit, he is one heck of a campaigner! Unfortunately bluster without affirmation is just another lie.

God Bless America!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 10, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2018 - 07:30am PT
Macron nailed it
"Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism: nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism,"

"By pursuing our own interests first, with no regard to others', we erase the very thing that a nation holds most precious, that which gives it life and makes it great: its moral values."


Furthermore; Our fellow World leaders braved falling water (also known as rain) to pay homage to the soldiers who fought and died to the bloody end of World War I, 100 years ago.

Trump was seen tweeting in the warmth and dryness of his Presidential suite.


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