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WBraun
climber
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Sep 22, 2018 - 10:53pm PT
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Yer all damn st00pid hypocrite brainwashed Americans that can't even save yourselves masquerading yourselves as morally right .......
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Sep 22, 2018 - 11:45pm PT
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there you go again bitching about the country whilst you suck from it's teat.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Sep 22, 2018 - 11:47pm PT
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Exactly. Which is why the earth will still be here after we no longer affect the climate. FIFY
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 23, 2018 - 05:21am PT
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Ironic that an institution that has played a central role in the American history of rock climbing is now printing articles about how climbing is ‘not good for the rock’.
I wonder how many of the current Sierra Club Board of Directors actually climb anything these days?
That was inevitable once the Sierra Club disbanded the RCS because of liability fears. I expect to see similar sorts of evolution from REI now that climbing forms so small a part of its overall business.
What the article didn't address (to me, at least) is the extent to which climbing reduced the overall lichen population and composition. Any climber in Yosemite can see that we reduce the presence of lichen. It's easy to pick out popular routes by the white lines on otherwise grey cliffs. The scars on, e.g. Nutcracker are now more prominent than the Firefall scar. That's an aesthetic issue, but I doubt that we reduce the amount of lichen on Yosemite cliffs even 1%, and I doubt that we change its overall composition by any measurable amount there.
John
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Sep 23, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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^yes but that's Canadian rock and it has free health care
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Sep 23, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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No coincidence that the lack-of-imagination crowd suggests collective suicide.
Ignorance leads to fear.
Fear leads to hate.
Hate leads to the Dark Side.
-praise jesus
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 23, 2018 - 09:11am PT
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What about the level ground? Are people bad for that, too? Stupid trench kickers!
Yes: Cryptobiotic Crusts
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sep 23, 2018 - 09:33am PT
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"Cryptobiotic Crusts"
Crap. Is there no-where we can't go?
Maybe Cosmic is right. Sigh.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 23, 2018 - 10:09am PT
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Personal observation: I returned to the Valley about 10 years ago after having been away for the 30 years pr so. I immediately noticed how much the color of the rock next to cracks had changed; I'm guessing due to lichen being rubbed off. On the few climbs I did, I was also a little stunned, and dismayed, by the pin scaring in cracks that we climbed with nuts. Someone starting to climb now would, rightly, view the current state as normal. I am somewhat surprised that the NPS allows climbing. I suppose iy is no worse than a maintained trail.
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sempervirens
climber
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Sep 23, 2018 - 10:29am PT
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So, Aunty x, a ‘Lu chen species’, could have as part of its make up either of n number of algal / Cyanobacteria species, and still be the same lichen species as long as the same fungus is among us, so to speak? How does that make sense?
That sounds like the answer to my questions is b) bad science....
Science uses naming systems to facilitate further study and discovery. Naming is one step in the process. Maybe lichenologists are one step ahead of the above uninformed opinion, ever think of that?
Why not learn and make informed choices. You can't choose not to decide, so may as well look and learn.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/fungi/lichens/lichensy.html
There are as many as 20,000 different kinds of lichen known, and new ones being discovered all the time. These are treated as species by lichenologists, but are not species in the same sense as animal or plant species. Because lichens are formed through a combination of alga and fungus, it is not possible to study the phylogeny of lichens, per se. Rather, the relationships of the fungal partner and the algal partner must both be studied.
The algal partner is usually a unicellular pleurastrophycean green alga, such as Trebouxia, Pseudotrebouxia, or Myrmecia, or is often a cyanobacterium, such as Nostoc or Scytonema. The fungal partner may be an Ascomycete or Basidiomycete.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 23, 2018 - 10:29am PT
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An Essay on the Principle of Population - Thomas Malthus 1798
A lotta good that did.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 23, 2018 - 10:37am PT
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The most impactful thing in rock climbing is a guidebook.
The most impactful guidebooks are "select" guides.
Anyway, I'll take your point when it comes to publicizing less known areas. But for a well known area with a plethora of great climbs, internet resources and select guides concentrate people on a few popular climbs. A good complete guide can offer up quality alternatives, and maybe people will quit lining up for the same dozen known classics. I think dispersal is a good thing, overuse not so much.
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 23, 2018 - 10:40am PT
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Shame on you, Kris!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 23, 2018 - 10:45am PT
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All this hand wringing is just a variation on a theme by Nero.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 23, 2018 - 10:56am PT
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I've contributed to The Nature Conservancy and The Access Fund. Both do good work, but are they at cross purposes?
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Sep 23, 2018 - 11:31am PT
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After writing a guidebook, donating to whatever does not counterbalance anything. lol!
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Sep 23, 2018 - 11:31am PT
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Are cliffs bad for rock climbing?
Oh yeah
Stay inside punters
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 23, 2018 - 11:40am PT
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" but are they at cross purposes? "
Like everything here, and elsewhere, it isn’t a black and white issue.
Moderation is often the most difficult path.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Sep 23, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
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It is time, that we as climbers, reduce our lichen footprint. The great outdoors should be kept in the caring hands and under the gentle feet of biologists. Climb in the gym.
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