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johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
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Sep 22, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
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Like any outdoor activity, climbing has an impact on the environment. Pretty minimal in the big picture of what humans do to the earth.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 22, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
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I’ll take the long view...millennia from now, when we’re no longer around, water will still be having it's way with cliffs.
An interesting mathematical model predicts that the human race has a 95% probability of being extinct in 7,800,000 years...I’m betting it will come sooner.
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Trump
climber
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Sep 22, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
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Routes that people climb have less vegetation than routes that people don’t climb. K, sounds reasonable to me.
What does the cliff prefer? Does it prefer to have people climbing it, or have lichen growing on it?
That’s a tough one. I’m not gonna ascribe a moral good/bad association to that. But if the cliffs want to do that, I’m all ears.
What do people prefer? Sounds like some of them prefer to climb the cliff, and some of them prefer to have lichen growing on the cliff.
And some of them prefer that some other of them do it the way they prefer. Nothing new there.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 22, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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Be the cliff! - Baba Ram Dass
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Sep 22, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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I read the article, which is mis-titled & mis-leading. It should be titled "IS ROCK CLIMBING BAD FOR PLANTS ON CLIFFS?"
Plants break cliffs down, climbers often kill those plants on purpose or by accident, & that is what the jerk who wrote the stupid story is concerned about.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Sep 22, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
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Protected white cedars are prying apart the Niagara Escarpment; given enough time they'll turn the whole thing into gravel.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 22, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
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It's unfortunate that the Sierra Club is now bad for cliffs because their policy of taking you off of anything you like, eventually meaning that you won't care about it anymore.
I like the way you think. And it's future generations who really won't give a crap since they've never been out there in the first place.
If Sierra Club has their way we'll all live in urban hives with self driving cars that won't go outside of a certain boundary. Of course when it comes to access, there will always be a top 1%.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
The Ocean
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Sep 22, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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Not very much. But more so if you consider future Climbers.
so please stop climbing so that future climbers can stop climbing so that future climbers can climb?
Is there something more first world problem than a first world problem?
Cuz that's about where this question lands
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 22, 2018 - 04:41pm PT
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Would y'all like some more-a?
Right here on the flora? - Frank Zappa
Ironic, for us who made sure to minimize our individual impact when we passed thru the wilderness, only to ‘collectively’ messed things up anyway.
I think the lichens shall prevail after we are all gone...whether you lichen it or not.
 ec
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Sep 22, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
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The evil practice of climbing! The rock is going to get it's day of vindication! Unwanted exfoliating advances exposed!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sep 22, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
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Ironic that an institution that has played a central role in the American history of rock climbing is now printing articles about how climbing is ‘not good for the rock’.
I wonder how many of the current Sierra Club Board of Directors actually climb anything these days?
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Sep 22, 2018 - 06:48pm PT
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One day the cliffs will have eroded to nothing.
New ones are built.
Cliff damage is the least of our worries
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 22, 2018 - 06:55pm PT
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I don’t know, in general, about the cliffs themselves. Although there is reason to believe that climbing / slacklining was bad for the formation formerly known as the Cobra. There are other examples as well. But I’m sure it’s harder on the plants.
Note in the article they mention a ”species of lichen”. Lichen is a symbiosis of algae and fungi. It’s two ( or more) things. One section of lichen can’t be “ a Species” or it’s not a lichen, it’s one of the constituent organisms.
Is this article poorly written, and the author didn’t know any better?
Or is it bad science?
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sempervirens
climber
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Sep 22, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
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Note in the article they mention a ”species of lichen”. Lichen is a symbiosis of algae and fungi. It’s two ( or more) things. One section of lichen can’t be “ a Species” or it’s not a lichen, it’s one of the constituent organisms.
Only half correct. Lichens are symbiosis of 2, sometimes 3 different organisms, an algae, a fungus, and sometimes a cyanobacteria. They are classified into species by humans. So yes there are species of lichens.
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sempervirens
climber
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Sep 22, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
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If living things like falcons and trees are worthy of conservation then why wouldn't lichens and plants be worthy of conservation?
Humans impact the environment. Why not increase our awareness and knowledge of the environment and the impacts? Then we can make informed choices.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Sep 22, 2018 - 08:28pm PT
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Because we are here to have dominion over the beasts and the plants according to the word of Yahweh.
Then of course we die off in the next great extinction after which your precious lichens can eat all the rocks they want.
In the meantime, sit safely upon your couch, stream some Netflix onto your 4k Samsung, ask Alexa to order some pizza and bitch about the rest of us on the internet.
Now that I've gotten my old man get of my lawn diatribe out of the way, I will ask in all seriousness - what makes you think that a viral species such as ourselves with the singular talent of screwing up everything in our reach has a chance in hell of repairing the planet?
I can't get 10 people to agree where to go for lunch much less ask them to coordinate some herculean effort to save the Earth.
Face it - we are in the Caligula stage of the Roman Empire soon to be followed by the rapid decline into yet another one of history's failed experiments at civilization.
Meanwhile, the lichen will devour the faux rock work on your McMansion, weeds will push up though your cobblestone drive, molds and mildews will decay your walls and woodwork and in a century not one sign of your presence will exist outside of plastic and a few fossilized iPhones.
Earth perseveres in spite of us.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 22, 2018 - 09:25pm PT
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So, Aunty x, a ‘Lu chen species’, could have as part of its make up either of n number of alagal / Cyanobacteria species, and still be the same lichen species as long as the same fungus is among us, so to speak? How does that make sense?
That sounds like the answer to my questions is b) bad science....
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Sep 22, 2018 - 09:57pm PT
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Jody! I am back from my Dolomites & Tuscany vacation break, from calling you out on your BS posts.
I doubt that you missed me, at all, but your schist posts like this one will now be mocked.
Jody states: Exactly. Which is why we don't affect climate change.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Sep 22, 2018 - 10:04pm PT
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I am confused by Jody's lack of connection to logic, reality, basic observations like pavement = solar collector = warmer air in a valley full of sunny pavement, but, hell, let's get back to reasonable and sane and non-trolly stuff like "just how much digging with a piton hammer to reach a placement constitutes chipping?" or "do hunters of psychoactive fragile-cliff-community lichens make the cliff/world better or worse?" or "is my bail anchor an asset or a damage to the loose pile of tuff (in a cultural sense does it encourage dummies or destroy the ambiance or rather, inspire a repeat/cleaning of what might actually be a fun wide choss route in the cool 11,900' aire?)"
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