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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 17, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
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here in California 10% of the people called to jury duty show up. Absolutely nothing done to the other 90%. When they have a big trial coming up they will send out 10x as many summons to get a big enough pool to pick from.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 17, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
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If you have a brain (and I know you do) then you’ve no worries if you live here in Cali - they only pick jurors who are peers of the accused.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 17, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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Check it out, you will see how the judicial system is inherently flawed.
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Aug 17, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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I just served on a California jury for a mugging that lasted for 20 seconds. They spent much longer for jury selection and longer even for the rest of the trial than this whole Manafort deal, and 2 counts versus 18.
Bad miscalculation that they wouldn't empanel someone with my background. I was out-crazied by my fellow citizens.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Aug 17, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
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One of my "old" Idaho friends shared his story this summer about forgetting to show up for jury duty.
He was arrested, put before a judge, & had a choice between paying a considerable fine, or serving several work days of community service. He chose his community service & did it.
I'm fine with that, you CA slackers!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Aug 17, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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If you don't want to serve, show up and tell them during the voire dire that you think cops are liars. You'll be excused promptly.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Aug 17, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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Once was enough for me...Had to drive 150 miles a day , swalll to bridgeport and back , for a week...I think they were paying 25 cents a mile while losing out on a weeks wages...to top it off the judge, Hang em high Harry , kept nodding off during the trial , slouched over forward in his chair , with a stream of drool that touched the carpet...Rumor has it he'd blast up to his house in twin lakes for lunch and cocktails ...
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Aug 17, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
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I served once, on an August jury trial, about a hay-barn that fell-down due to snow load & the insurance company that insured the barn, but would not pay for the loss.
It should have been a simple rural Idaho trial, but it turned out that the very-wealthy land-owner didn't like the settlement he got in a previous trial, which the judge mentioned, but would not share with the jury.
The landowner had since died, but his daughter showed up in ragged cowgirl clothing, along with her ancient ranch foreman & each testified about their screwing at the hands of the evil insurance company.
The trial was suspended for lunch & at one of the few local eateries, I noted the representatives of the evil insurance company having a pleasant lunch with the rancher's daughter & foreman.
The rancher's daughter drove an ancient & beat-up pickup to the trial each day, but I had noted her address at the beginning of the trial. She lived near Sun Valley in an area where only the very-rich had homes. Of course, being a curious-Fritz, I drove up that creek after the first full day of the trial & noted her old, beat-up pickup parked in front of a multi-million dollar home.
I was somewhat miffed that the rich folks were now again suing the insurance company that bought them lunch, & they had brought me & another 11 innocents to their rich-folks financial-dance on a beautiful week in August.
Unfortunately, the trial continued for two more days, during which the insurance company experts proved to me & the rest of the jury that they did not ever insure hay barns, or their contents, against falling down from snow load.
I gritted my teeth as each prime summer day passed, & finally the trial ended. My peers elected me jury foreman & I pressed for the correct decision, which would also cost the rich farmers & the insurance company, who had ruined my summer vacation, the most money.
There were two jurors with a little sympathy for the poor farmer's daughter, which I carefully changed to sympathy for the wronged insurance company.
After about 2 hours of deliberation, I reported to the judge that the insurance company was not liable, which I figure cost both the plaintiffs & the defendants the most money, of any possible decision.
Since then, I’ve always been willing to serve, when called, but somehow the lawyers spot me as a trouble-maker.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 17, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
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l've been on several juries, including a death-penalty felony murder case. All the cases I was empaneled on were criminal cases, so I've never experienced a civil case. I've seen things that would make you proud of the judicial system, and things that would make you sick to your stomach. There are plenty of fair-minded people of integrity out there, and there are plenty of idiots too.
I've seen the system work, and I've seen it fail. I've served with people who understood their responsibilities, and I've served with people who were too stupid or too prejudiced to contribute anything, and who in some cases subverted the process.
My position is simple, if naive: jury duty is a critical civic duty, and when called I will do my best to help produce a fair judgement. If I don't do that, and if others like me don't do that, then what's left is a justice system run by the the biased and the idiots.
Think of it as a matter of karma: if you ever end up on trial, do you really want everyone with half a brain to figure out how to avoid serving? Do you really want to be judged by what's left? Lynch mob or apologists?
The experience itself can be uplifting or deeply frustrating, but how much fun you do or don't have isn't the point. It doesn't seem to me that, in this jaded and hyper-sceptical world, there are many situations left in which a call to duty is treated with honor. Jury duty gives everyone a chance to make that right.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 17, 2018 - 10:36pm PT
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If you've got time then why not give it a whirl.
If not, the best thing to do is not respond at all. If it doesnt come certified singature required, it didn't get there. Once you respond you've admitted you received it although I doubt they'll throw up too many roadblocks.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 17, 2018 - 10:44pm PT
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One thing the French have over us, besides the obvious culinary and oenological attributes,
is the Napoleonic Code. Our system is based upon job security for lawyers, not justice.
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perswig
climber
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Aug 18, 2018 - 03:11am PT
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One thing the French have over us,...
And the guillotine.
Nice post, rgold.
Dale
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Trump
climber
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Aug 18, 2018 - 05:44am PT
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I prefer the cheap seats. Let someone else do the dirty work of justice.
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Happy Cowboy
Social climber
Boz MT
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Aug 18, 2018 - 05:54am PT
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I also agree with Rich’s post ^^^^^ well expressed!
Personally served jury duty twice in the forty years I’ve lived in Bozeman.
The first was a lesson in ol’school Montana citizen responsibility. They send just a postcard, no certified/registered letter, but one and the same in the law’s mind. I ignored mine, didn’t call to try to excuse myself and went to work on the log home I was building away back yonder.
Mid-morning, lost in the chainsaw growl, I get a tap on the shoulder and turn into the face of a Deputy Sherriff. He says “you’re comin w’me or I’ll jail you for Contempt”. I say “ok officer, I’ll follow”, but he points to his Cruiser “no, with me”. He delivers me to the Courthouse an hour away in time for jury selection. The officer was a decent sort and much of the conversation en route was about personal responsibility. As Rich and others mentioned, it centered on oneself and if caught on the wrong side of a legal battle who would you want to judge yourself? At the jury selection my scruffy clothing and ample dose of sawdust “released” me from duty but not before the Judge called me to the bench. “We take Jury duty very seriously here in Montana”
So when I got my notice a second time I acknowledged it and eventually chosen as an “alternate” in a Civil trial. Initially miffed at what I was missing, it became quite an interesting education and over in 3 days. The judge described a Civil trial as “jury is committed to the Preponderance of Truth” which I’d never heard before. He described a decision in a Criminal trial is based on “no shadow of doubt” concept whereas that decision in a Civil is based on a featherweight of difference”, the Preponderance of Truth.
Way back when living in Jackson, Wyoming was my first. Not many folks around then and it was hard to avoid. I sat with the alternates for a Criminal trial. The defense had an Attorney who had quite the reputation at the time, Gerry Spence. There was discussion of horrific events I’d prefer not to’ve heard, but nothing can replace my memory of Spence. The case ended in a miss trial. He’d eloquently defend, dressed in a beautiful deerskin jacket, beaded with flowing fringe, topped with large white Stetson. Unforgettable and truly spellbinding.
Rick, I was with Dougal McCarty and Scott Wade recently. Kanzler, the Monastery and you were robustly remembered!!!
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2018 - 06:39am PT
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boy i've tapped into a font of wisdom, and happy cowboy (donnie) ... i yearn for the good old days, love what we all had in each other.
ratty's girl nikki was the artisan behind spence's fringed coats, she a live in seamstress for jerry and "imaging." hung out in their montecito digs a bit.
my* father in law passed last year ... retired from the montana supreme court: john sheehy. an equally compelling orator of sonorous voice
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=3070242&msg=3070273#msg3070273
*only one i've had anyway
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feralfae
Boulder climber
Almost solving the metaphysical mystery
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Aug 18, 2018 - 06:49am PT
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To understand your role as a juror, visit [url=" http://www.fija.org"] http://www.fija.org[/url]
Your primary job, going all the way back to the Magna Carta, is to protect fellow citizens from overzealous prosecutions, abuses of power, and as the final defense against all laws that usurp Human Rights.
Quaker jurors successfully nullified against the Fugitive Slave act, until finally the government gave up enforcing it in many jurisdictions, and those helping escaped slaves were no longer prosecuted.
Jurors also helped end alcohol prohibition by refusing to convict.
These days, here in Montana, where most people understand the role of the independent juror, many places no longer attempt trials for marijuana. If the law is wrong, or misapplied, and certainly if the person is innocent, jurors can protect the person on trial against government's overreach.
ff
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Aug 18, 2018 - 07:24am PT
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They asked everyone their favorite television show. This is like 20yrs ago, before streaming phones. I said I don’t have a TV. So everyone after me downplays their answer - I don’t watch much, but when I do, etc - back to me I was excused. It still took most of my morning.
The guy they were trying was a loser - cut off his girlfriend’s phone, trapped her in the house, then begged her to take him back. I really didn’t care either way what happened to him. Too pitiful to be violent.
Next time, there hasn’t been, but I figured I’d just fill out that question card much more honestly and to the point - save even more time by not even getting a seat for the first round of questions.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 18, 2018 - 08:49am PT
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[quote]If the law is wrong...jurors can protect the person on trial against government's overreach./quote]
That isn’t the jury’s mandate.
And wouldn’t we be better served by returning to the state where only land owners and tax payers were allowed to serve? Ya gotta have skin in the society game!
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ManMountain
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Aug 18, 2018 - 09:07am PT
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"Of course, being a curious-Fritz, I drove up that creek after the first full day of the trial & noted her old, beat-up pickup parked in front of a multi-million dollar home."
Totally out of line. Jurors are *not* to go about investigating the trial on their own; only what they hear and see in the courtroom should affect their decision. I'm sure the judge made this clear before you were seated.
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