DNA ancestry tests

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Messages 1 - 98 of total 98 in this topic
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 5, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
Has any of this crowd done this or are interested in the technology? I haven't had the test but my brother and his son have recently. Interesting to say the least, especially as the technology progresses. I am a mutt as my parents have told me.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
I'd jump on it if only they had Martian DNA in their files.

Without that, I'd just get a "Sorry, but our tests were inconclusive" response.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
La Femme just ordered it. She wants to know if she’s Neandertal or Cro-Magnon.
Boy, howdy, but I’m not sayin’ nuthin’!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 07:14pm PT
That's funny. My brother sent me the results. They break it down into regions and general and more specific groupings with percentages. At the end there is a percentage of "unassigned". His son has five times more of that alien monkey lizard stuff than he has. What could that mean?
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
Right?
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:29pm PT
I like how handy of a tool it is for your government.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 5, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
I'm keeping my DNA to myself. Sending it out to some lab feels like a setup for the ultimate form of identity theft.

Besides I know where my parents came from, and I know that many generations preceded them in those cold towns north of Trondheim.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
Aug 5, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
My sister did it. I was hoping for some wild card result but it came back as about at white as possible- like 99% northern U.K. There was 1% sort of Swiss so that explains my punctuality and alpine climbing.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
At his point I think it is really easy to read into this whatever fear you hold dear. Dna only goes so far in saying who you really are after the day is done.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Aug 5, 2018 - 09:03pm PT
My hobby is genealogy so I have done DNA tests and paid for several cousins and even strangers to take them. If you have a common last name and your family has been in America since colonial days, that's the only way to find out who you belong to.

The autosomal tests that give ethnic percentages are the cheapest and will help you locate cousins. They'll also tell you if you have neanderthal or denisova genes. In fact, I am 1.6 % neanderthal which is a higher than normal percentage, so fear not reilly, we gals hide it pretty well.

If you want to know your deep ancestry then you need to take the more expensive haplogroup tests for Y-chromosome or mitochondrial DNA. My ancestors mostly came from England but some had Viking DNA. They got to England through conquest, which explains a lot about their pioneer adventures in the Old West once they got to America.

In fact, thanks to DNA and finding my proper lineages, I learned more about my family's psychology than I ever did through counseling. The sins of the fathers are visited sometimes unto the 7th generation just like scripture says. Of course many interesting secrets and scandals are uncovered along the way, sometimes just from the U.S. census.

As for the government getting the results, if they want your DNA they'll get it one way or another.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Aug 5, 2018 - 09:12pm PT
I find it interesting that the law enforcement folks have jumped on the DNA testing data-bases & are using them to investigate "cold-cases" of murders where they have DNA from the unknown thug.

It turns out that if you are that thug & one of your relatives has a DNA ancestry test, you are likely going to jail.

I dont have a problem with that, & in fact, I think it's great.

It's a whole new world out here folks.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
Thank you for that reply Jan. Genealogy has been a hobby for my brother too and he did the haplogroup tests. I just find it fascinating. His studies already found some surprising twists even before the Dna tests.

It's a whole new world out here folks.

Indeed! I may not be able to keep up but I certainly won't fight it.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 5, 2018 - 09:50pm PT
hey there say, wayno and susan...

susan-- as to this quote of yours:

I learned more about my family's psychology than I ever did through counseling. The sins of the fathers are visited sometimes unto the 7th generation just like scripture says.

yep, i can see how that can help... and, yep, there is a reason, by it is
said, up the the 7th generation-- though we may not fully understand that... very interesting, for sure, though...

and, say, wayno...

my twin buddies, recently, did a DNA thing, and they did so, as, their
mom (when alive) was convinced they were identical twins... (which of course, are not truely 100% identical, as, they are individuals) but-- the doc, wayyy back then, 66 years ago, said they were fraternal...
*don't know why he said that... ?

well, the DNA showed that they were identical, as much as, identical twins are, as compared to fraternal...

they are mirrow twins, too... which is more rare (so we have heard, anyways, that is) ... but, they DO nearly look identical, however, due to age, they are showing more differences, little by little, that close family and friends, can tell...

plus, one had an eye, injured by a drunk driver... so there goes the 'twin magic' of 'being identical' right there, :(


great gals... they enjoyed learning what they did...
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 5, 2018 - 09:54pm PT
hey there say, ksolem... as to your quote, too:

Aug 5, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
I'm keeping my DNA to myself. Sending it out to some lab feels like a setup for the ultimate form of identity theft.

yeah, me too... as, i am not sure what all folks would do with it...

we know the basics of our background, but, one side of the family, it
stops -- so that side, we do not know, 'what is back there' ...

however, on that 'chapman' side... our grampa was darker... and,
the 'mongolian' spot, (birthmark that fades, as of three years old) is
in our family, for me and one brother... so:

that mystery spot, is enough for me, to help fill-in, something, as to the
darker pigment, on the unknown side of the family...


better than doing DNA ... :))
BBA

Social climber
Aug 5, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
I had a couple of tests because grandsons asked where are we from which got me curious. Turns out I made a 9,000 mile trek in 35,000 years from somewhere in Kenya to the Rhine River Valley in Bavaria. I traveled slowly so I could turn white along the way. It is food for the imagination. Yours truly, Haplogroup R-M269
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 5, 2018 - 10:03pm PT
I'm with Ksolem

For me, Finland all the way back to 1700's (traced by my cousin) and Shetland Islands

What more do I need to know

Health wise is another story

But how protected is your info

HIPAA????


Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 10:21pm PT
So I asked my brother how different would my test be than his. He said something about less than 1% different. His son's test was 2.3% "unavailable". This makes me wonder. How much different am I than my brother as compared to a chimpanzee, Dna percentage wise and does this really mean much?

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 10:50pm PT
How much different am I than my brother as compared to a chimpanzee, Dna percentage wise and does this really mean much?

Wayno, assuming you’ve posited a largely rhetorical question the obvious reply, at least to an unbiased observer who in no way would impugn yer mother, is

how much do you want to know about yer childhood milkman?
ShawnInPaso

climber
Paso Robles, CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 11:41pm PT
Hey Wayno -

I'd suggest listening to this podcast before spittin' in a tube.
http://radio.seti.org/episodes/identity-crisis

Here are the main points (that I can recall):

1. Of the dozen or so companies that conduct DNA tests for personal use, all twelve will have different results from the same sample of DNA.
2. The results are only as good as their individual database.
3. Their databases are only populated by their customers (some small, some larger, etc.).
4. Some countries of origin don't seem to make it into the databases. Consequently, some results are patently wrong (e.g. someone clearly is born in Japan from Japanese parents and their result shows them to be Chinese.
5. The percentages are bogus and a bad attempt at trying to appear accurate (e.g. 49.5 percent this, 34.3. percent that).

It is a great podcast, check it out.


zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 07:16am PT



Of the dozen or so companies that conduct DNA tests for personal use, all twelve will have different results from the same sample of DNA.

I guessed as much. Maybe I need to listen up, but I'm curious how different the results are.


Filing a Complaint
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nafod

Boulder climber
State college
Aug 6, 2018 - 07:32am PT
It was a known undisputed fact on my mom's side that there was American Indian in there. Until my daughter did the test and came up zero. So my mom went out and did the test too, and again zero. A *big* pulse to the family origin story for her and her sisters to ponder on.

There goes the casino...
Trump

climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 08:01am PT
Don’t let your dna ruin the good stories we tell ourselves. That’s in our dna too. My dna shows that I’m 0% computer!

With respect to you and your siblings, if you have the same parents, of course you have exactly the same ancestors/ancestry. But your tests might be slightly different, because the tests show the ancestry of your individual dna, so doing the test yourself could give both you and your siblings additional information about all of you, with respect to who your ancestors were. Plus, you might like chocolate and not even know that about yourself!

My tests compared to my kids tests shows that we’re all humans from planet earth. Hurray for our tribe, and the lies we tell ourselves!
Tom Bruskotter

Trad climber
Seattle
Aug 6, 2018 - 08:07am PT
I did 23andMe a few years back. Was sufficiently worried about future misuse of my genetic info that I used an alias, a dummy email account and a library computer.

I ran the raw data through a program that gave us detail about methylation (metabolism) and health issues.

I'm German, and some Polish, Russian, English. A Euro-Mutt. No surprises there but then we read I have an exceptional amount of Neanderthal DNA. BWAhhahhaa!
nafod

Boulder climber
State college
Aug 6, 2018 - 08:55am PT
I predict the Russians have submitted a "Ronald K Stump" to all of the DNA sites, using samples from the drinking glass in Helsinki. It's the smart play.

Scary too.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Aug 6, 2018 - 09:11am PT
Most of the commercials for that are people who want to find out they're 1/16 Chippewa so the can start wearing turquoise and tell everybody they know.

Or they're 1/16 Black and can start talking about my peoples struggle with slavery and racism. Even though they're whiter than anybody.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 09:49am PT
I was relaxing on the couch and my wife matter-of-factly and unexpectedly prompted me to swab the inside of my mouth. It smacked of a person wanting to know what breed of dog they had rescued.

Our family lineage started early in the colonies and constantly settled Westward (probably on the run). We have very little knowledge of our history other than there was some banjo romance in the mix.

So what did I find out? All English, Scottish, Irish and just enough Scandinavian to know someone was raped by a Viking- pure redneck stock.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:05am PT
It was a known undisputed fact on my mom's side that there was American Indian in there. Until my daughter did the test and came up zero. So my mom went out and did the test too, and again zero. A *big* pulse to the family origin story for her and her sisters to ponder on.

There goes the casino

Just a matter of time until someone gets a sample from Elizabeth Warren by hook or by crook, and we all know what it will show (0% Indian), as it's almost certain that she's had the test done (anonymously) and didn't like the results.
But due to the nature of the tests, even when she's busted on the DNA, she'll be able to repeat her nonsense as the tests (at least so far) can't definitively disprove that she may have had a single Indian ancestor many generations back.
I sent in a sample and am waiting for the results, perhaps I'm hoping for a "Mike Honcho" result showing some disadvantaged minority heritage, but who knows and who really cares, you are who you are.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:15am PT
Blah, good job dropping the politic bomb in anther thread. Amazing how much scrutiny you give to Warren, but I bet you give your man Trump a pass on his 4000+ lies. Trump lies more in one day than Warren does in a year.

By the way, it is not a lie if some one in Warrens family told her she was part Indian. Being wrong is not lying.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:26am PT
By the way, it is not a lie if some one in Warrens family told her she was part Indian. Being wrong is not lying.

Being wrong is not lying, but it becomes lying or tantamount to lying when you have a willful disregard for the truth.

Here the the contention (a basically white person allegedly has a distant, unidentified Indian ancestor) is now regarded as being often fantasy, and some of the family reasons for perpetuating the Indian story (someone in a picture had high cheek bones!; there was a story of eloping that was debunked) are silly, false, and offensive to real Indians who get sick of white people claiming to part Indian for basically the reason "Mike Honcho" said (oh, poor me, I'm part Indian so I've been oppressed by the Man and had to overcome so much . . .).

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:47am PT
sorry blabber, but I never met an Indian who really cared that someone claimed to be Native. It is rude to tell people what they think. I do not make generalizations about all Indians, but my anecdote is based on time spent on the Navajo reservation. Son is half, his mom is 100%.

In fact Indians are amazingly forgiving. The only outward display of a grudge I ever personally saw was one of my sons uncles having a few beers and ranting about the local priest. Guy had an issue with religion, but he treated me like family.

I took my son and his mom to the Ellis Island museum recently (One of the best attractions in NYC). His mother is no paper Indian, see was born and raised on the rez as a child. Spoke only Navajo until the age of 5. After the visit I was curious what her reaction would be to the history of American immigration, she thought it was amazing and it made her proud to be an American.

In fact most Natives think it is funny that people claim to be 1/16th NA because not that many years ago it was stigma to be part Indian.

Do you realize how petty your claim really is. Proof of pettiness is that Trump uses it as an insult. Indians find Trump offensive, they have no problem with Warren. nuff said

edit: Do you even understand why the Pocahontas insult is a slur?

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:59am PT
I do not make generalizations about all Indians,

And then goes on to, in essence, make generalizations about Indians.

Look, I never said anything about Trump or Pocahontas, etc. I am absolutely sure that fake Indian claims annoy at least some Indians, I don't know what the percentage is, I'm sure you don't either. I have reviewed the Warren Indian claims and I myself find them to be offensive, just like you're offended by Trump (and I frequently am too, by the way).

This thread is about DNA ancestry tests, and I simply made an observation about how they may affect a matter of at least some pubic interest, and noted I myself have a test in the works (more interested in possible health significance than ancestry). Get over it.
wbw

Trad climber
'cross the great divide
Aug 6, 2018 - 11:11am PT
Jon, I was out sometime in the last couple of years running a lap on the 2nd Flatiron, and there were two guys climbing above me, one of whom was exceedingly loud. Turns out (based on the way this guy was spraying down the entire Flatirons) it must have been blahblah. I finally had to pull up on a nice ledge and sit for a while to let those two get ahead because the one that said he posted as blahblah was so loud and obnoxious. I have a real pet peeve about loud, braggadocious people, maybe to a fault, but let's just say that you should be happy that you don't have to share a crag with him. He's honestly more obnoxious than he is here on ST.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 6, 2018 - 11:26am PT
Jon, I was out sometime in the last couple of years running a lap on the 2nd Flatiron, and there were two guys climbing above me, one of whom was exceedingly loud. Turns out (based on the way this guy was spraying down the entire Flatirons) it must have been blahblah. I finally had to pull up on a nice ledge and sit for a while to let those two get ahead because the one that said he posted as blahblah was so loud and obnoxious. I

Cool story bro!
Sorry I impaired your "running a lap" on the 2nd, post a pic or some other identifying info (as I have) and I'll be sure to avoid you if I see you, to the extent I reasonably can.
Happy climbs

edit: took a moment to look at WBW's pics, don't recognize this guy and somewhat skeptical that I ever saw him (or vice versa) on the 2nd Flatiron, but who knows, anything is possible. Story is a little fishy as I was allegedly climbing above him, but he had to pull on a nice ledge and sit for while? I suppose he was running me down :)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
La Femme’s friend is a MAJOR genetical counselor. She did 23me. She knows it isn’t perfect but says it’s accurate enough, unless yer trying to get into the Aryan Brutherhood.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2018 - 12:04pm PT
I was wondering how long it would take for the petty crap to seep in. Behave or I will make it go away. Is that too much to expect from adults?

I don't think I would cough up the dough for a test but if someone in my family paid for it I have no problem taking the test. This technology is still developing and several people have said to not read too much into it. Kinda reminds me of the past life regression stuff.

Reilly, I'm the only one in my immediate family that has red hair and freckles so I've heard the milkman stuff my whole life. I still think it is funny.

I'm still curious how different my results would be compared to my brother. What might show up in one but not the other. I know little about how this all works. Anyone?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 6, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
I'm still curious how different my results would be compared to my brother. What might show up in one but not the other. I know little about how this all works. Anyone?

Well, if you're in town, come on over and ask Mari. Molecular genetics is her thing.

Frozenwaterfalls

Ice climber
California
Aug 6, 2018 - 12:24pm PT
Wayno - I am not sure what genes/DNA they sequence in the kits, but it is possible that you have a mutation in your mcr1 gene which controls pigmentation. If it is a functional mutation that you inherited from both your parents, then you could end up with red hair and fair skin. Similar mutations to this gene result in Spirit bears (white black bears), white Antarctic fur seals, and a whole bunch of other cool critters so you are in good company :).
nafod

Boulder climber
State college
Aug 6, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
Elizabeth Warren by hook or by crook, and we all know what it will show (0% Indian)
I have to say, it was supremely ironic that my dear old mom is a big-time Trump supporter. The moccasin's on the other foot now.

Fascinating, the surprises that can lurk in the genetic history.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Aug 6, 2018 - 12:31pm PT
Lots of people have Native American ancestry back there somewhere, especially if they came to America during colonial times when European women were very few. The autosomal tests that most people take however, won't show it because the DNA is diluted by half every generation. After only four generations which is approximately a century, you're down to only 6.25 %.

1st = 50%
2nd = 25%
3rd = 12.5
4th = 6.25
etc.

It also turns out that that many east coast Indians had already mixed with shipwrecked Spaniards, Portuguese, Moors and Englishmen before the Pilgrims ever arrived. Even many traditional Indians had mixed DNA by 1600.

For details, check out Where have all the Indians Gone?

http://www.dnaexplain.com/Publications/PDFs/WhereHaveAlltheIndiansGone8-30-09JoggV3.2.pdf
John M

climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 12:36pm PT
Thanks Jan, for that information. My grandmother always said that her grandmother was full Choctaw indian, but I don't look it. I wonder if a test would even show it.

Wayno.. I don't know much about this but I do have a friend who had the tests done and he discovered some medical things that he feels helped him mitigate some issues. My understanding is that there are genetic tests for family ancestry and tests for gene make up for medical issues. Thats about the limit of my knowledge on this. LOL.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 6, 2018 - 12:38pm PT
I'm still curious how different my results would be compared to my brother. What might show up in one but not the other. I know little about how this all works. Anyone?

I'd ask your Mom, if possible, first....

heh

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 6, 2018 - 01:01pm PT
Wayno.. I don't know much about this but I do have a friend who had the tests done and he discovered some medical things that he feels helped him mitigate some issues. My understanding is that there are genetic tests for family ancestry and tests for gene make up for medical issues.

Not sure if the tests are different or just the analysis, but 23andnme has two basic offerings, ancestry, and health + ancestry. (The Amazon Prime deal was $99 for both.) I was more interested in health, but it's basically bundled together.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
I was adopted and while I met my biological mother long ago, I never bought the mythology about my background, especially the part about me having a bunch of Comanche Indian blood - which would have been cool, but I'm too much of a pale face for the story to be credible. So I got the test, an expensive one from a lab with a stout database (they do exist, I was told), and discovered - or was told - I was 90 something percent West Euro (mostly Irish and British), and the rest, African American and like .7 percent Native American. Since then I haven't heard the end of it from my black friends, who now call me "negro," and other endearing terms.

Another writer, also black, summed it up pretty well. "That's American," he said.

But I'm still pretty pale, so who knows, really ...

And come to think about it, who cares.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
Legend has it that a horny Irishman ancestor mixed it up with some Germans. Why mess with that?
WBraun

climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:38pm PT
The gross materialists are so interested where their gross material coat (body) was manufactured but don't care a lick who they really are or where they've actually come from .....
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
23andMe was founded by Anne Wojcicki, who used to be married to Sergey Brin, one of the co-founders of Google. They are definitely interested in linking to other types of healthcare data and in finding new uses for the data. If you're more interested in the healthcare side of things and are less concerned about your de-identified data being used for other things, then 23andMe might be the way to go.

OToH, I went to a small presentation about a month ago by the CTO of Ancestry.com. He was pretty clear that use of the data for non-ancestry related things was not a priority for them. So if you're just interested in the genealogy side of things and less the health side, that might be a better way to go.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 6, 2018 - 03:11pm PT
This is great. In the not so distant future when you go to apply for health insurance they'll know what you going to have down the road. It gives a whole new meaning to "pre-existing conditions."

Said half in humor...
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
That guy who posts nonsense all the time makes the case (inanely as usual) for the need for retroactive birth control

The insurance companies would love it
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2018 - 05:21pm PT
The gross materialists are so interested where their gross material coat (body) was manufactured but don't care a lick who they really are or where they've actually come from .....

Yeah but if there is only 144 of them and they are disgusting, who cares?;o

I listened to the podcast Shawn linked. It summed up well the limitations and misconceptions on these tests. There was some other interesting stuff in there too, especially about "chimeras" or people with two genomes and how that happens and such.

My take is that your genes are not who you are. Many people today have insecurities and confusion about their identities and its importance and clever marketers are actively taking advantage of this epidemic. Sad.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Aug 6, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
There are a couple of good books out on the cool discoveries that are coming from DNA based on extraction of DNA from ancient teeth and bones. The whole of human history is in our collective DNA. One interesting bit is that going back to common ancestors gets every one related in about 1100ad. Not so long ago cos.

In my family, we can trace a combination of DNA and records to a Charles Breedlove in Essex County Virginia in 1693. Made up name. Probably originally from Northern France but maybe a stay in Enland. Family lore is five brothers came from England. Intriguing evidence that several families named *love moved west together. I still feel the latent criminal lurking within.

But marh works against any distinctions: only about 1/10 of 1 percent of Charles is in me.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 6, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
My take is that your genes are not who you are.

I know who I am...

...but who are all you zombies?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
the brown family is inexplicable


The object is what scientists call a brown dwarf. Nicknamed "failed stars," brown dwarfs are larger than planets, but not quite large enough to fuse hydrogen, the way stars do. The boundary line is still debated, but scientists tend to draw it at about 13 times the mass of Jupiter.

Originally, scientists thought SIMP J01365663+0933473 was a gigantic, old brown dwarf. But further study showed that it is instead relatively young, at 200 million years old, and is only 12.7 times the mass of Jupiter. That research also showed that the planet is on its own, not orbiting a star.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 08:39pm PT
The answer(s) may be blowin' the wind




And it's not just the magnetic mechanism that's leaving scientists with questions right now — there are plenty of other mysteries about the object, which scientists first discovered in 2016.

...

"This object is right at the boundary between a planet and a brown dwarf, or 'failed star,' and is giving us some surprises that can potentially help us understand magnetic processes on both stars and planets," Kao said in the statement. "We think these mechanisms can work not only in brown dwarfs, but also in both gas giant and terrestrial planets."

The detection technology is over my head.

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4365/aac2d5
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
or 'failed star,'

I love it when somebody uses that word. Failed. Like I'm a failed hippie or something. Didn't quite make the mark. Arbitrarily failed I say.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 09:42pm PT
Nobody who appreciates a good Barolo has failed, except possibly in quantity.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 7, 2018 - 01:12am PT
DNA-testing company 23andMe has signed a $300 million deal with a drug giant. Here's how to delete your data if that freaks you out.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 02:56am PT
One of my mom's relatives was a Mormon living in Salt Lake City in the early 1960s, and he made a family tree going back to England in about the year 1000.
He sent it to my mom's aunt, and my mom got a copy.
My parents have had a lot of fun over the years looking at census records, and filling in most of the rest of the tree on both sides back to US colonial days and earlier.
I linked it with other trees going into Europe to around the year 600.
So no need to do a DNA test; we already know who all the close ancestors are / were.

Up until recently, if you knew the names of your grandparents and where they lived,
you could look up US census records easily on familysearch.org and trace them back many generations if their surnames were not too common (and they were in the US).
Now they require a login, but I'm sure it's still free.
I don't think the info is all that useful, but it's kind of a fun puzzle to fill in the blanks.

There are even some stories in the census records.
One that my dad likes to tell is about one of my mom's ancestors (born in 1851) who was an alcoholic.
He was pretty much the town drunk, and at one census he was living with his mom, who listed his occupation as "bum"!
wbw

Trad climber
'cross the great divide
Aug 7, 2018 - 06:41am PT
My grandad did some pretty extensive ancestry research (on my dad's side) the old-fashioned way before he passed away twenty or so years ago. He spent part of his time going to courthouses and graveyards starting in Barren County, KY and then tracing back to courthouses in NC and then VA. I think what he did was check records and then go verify by physically visiting cemeteries. He was able to trace our family history back to the late 1600's as I recall. All of this was done as a hobby.

It all started in Scotland, (not surprisingly, as the high school mascot where my dad went is the "Scotties"), at some point moved through the Cumberland Gap in KY, and ultimately led to an area close to Mammoth Cave. He actually wrote a document that is more like a short book called "The Barrens" that he distributed amongst our family, of which I have a copy. It's been a long time since I've read it, but I remember excerpts such as "so-and-so bought x acres of land for y dollars and two good mules."

It would be fun to go back and compare what he found with with what a DNA test would show. This stuff can really give ya a completely different perspective on family.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Aug 7, 2018 - 07:48am PT
wbw, although your family was Scottish by culture, they could beViking by DNA since many raided and settled there.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 7, 2018 - 08:06am PT
So no need to do a DNA test; we already know who all the close ancestors are / were.

Hmmm. More accurate to say "we already know what the records say about our close ancestors."

But what about great-grandma? You know, her and the guy that ran the feed store? That time when great-grandpa was away for a week?

Trusting the records reminds me of the story of the old man who, as he lay dying, said to his wife: "I'm a goner, so you don't have to worry about keeping secrets any longer. I've always believed that Robert has a different father than our other four kids, am I right?"

"Yes, dear, that's true."

"I knew it! So tell me, who is Robert's father?"

"You are."

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 08:11am PT
Found out La Femme and I had great grandfathers who lived on opposite sides of a fjord in Norway! Explains why we both like fish and stinky cheese so much, huh?
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Aug 7, 2018 - 08:36am PT
One way to tell if you have had recent Native American ancestry is through teeth. If yours are shovel or talon shaped or some modified in between version.





Another indicator is the Mongoloid spot in the lower back toward the base of the spine. It appears as a large bruise to many and is typical of people from east Asia and Native Americans.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 7, 2018 - 08:48am PT
Very interesting....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 09:33am PT
I know the paranoid comrades see it differently but 23andme sharing their database with drug makers could result in yuge benefits for the rest of us.
perswig

climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 10:13am PT
I know the paranoid comrades see it differently but 23andme sharing their database with drug makers could result in yuge benefits for the rest of us.

Agree to the value, but this is countered by DMT's assertion of .gov/LEO access until such time that definitive regulation could be formulated and enacted (itself perpetuating the -arguable- big gov't rant) and probably more concerning to most, the potential for insurance companies to use the data to decline you coverage or adjust your premiums based on what you COULD develop.

Fascinating times ahead!
Dale
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 10:27am PT
Dale, colour me un naif but despite the Supreme Court’s makeup I don’t see them allowing Big Brother access to that database. And I thought it is anonymous anyway?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 7, 2018 - 10:33am PT
Agree to the value, but this is countered by DMT's assertion of .gov/LEO access until such time that definitive regulation could be formulated and enacted (itself perpetuating the -arguable- big gov't rant) and probably more concerning to most, the potential for insurance companies to use the data to decline you coverage or adjust your premiums based on what you COULD develop.

Just use a fake name / account if you want to get your DNA results but are worried about conspiracy theory stuff.
And if insurance companies can and will use genetic testing info to set your rates, they're going to make you spit in a tube with someone watching before writing a polciy, they're not going to hack 23andme or whatever. Duh.
Not at all suggesting there's any compelling reason to get a test, but if you'd like to but you're paranoid for whatever reason, just take off your tinfoil hat and think for a minute, it's not that big a deal.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 7, 2018 - 10:46am PT
hey there say, jan... as to your quote:

Another indicator is the Mongoloid spot in the lower back toward the base of the spine. It appears as a large bruise to many and is typical of people from east Asia and Native Americans.

this is what me, and one sibling, were born with, in our family...
only 2, out of 8 kids... my gramma found a picture of a south american
indian woman, holding her baby-- with the same blue-blackish spot...

it really helped my mom, as, she had to clue, what on earth this was...

and, one of the baby doctors was suspicious of her, until someone else
informed them that this was not bruising...

weird stuff, for a first time mom... though, the other sibling, she is not sure of, which one-- we now think it was the third child, then, after me...

oddly, too, THAT sibling said native americans, in an area, where he was, had come up him and asked him, what tribe he was etc... though he was NOT of any, nor are we...


god makes such fun in how he 'overlaps' humans... and , as to how what is
supposedly hidden, or, 'tried to have been washed out' is STILL there, even
if in just bits, through the generations...

and, essential, we are all humans... and came from a 'starting point' so thus,
in some ways, we are all the same anyway...

with a potential to DISPLAY uncountable faucets:
in face shapes...
colors...
sizes...
skin types...

etc...


wow, what an amazing 'flower garden' we are!
perswig

climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 11:06am PT
Ha, I'm the least worried person I know, blahblah. No tinfoil or bunker here. And no plans to investigate this myself, but it's an interesting question to pursue.

Anonymous data won't flag a person, but could influence actuarial tables going forward for risk factors, regionalisms, etc that at some point could find their way into policy. And fluid boundaries, corporate and state, would concern me about long-term consequences.

Reilly, agreed, but one of the questions I've seen raised (edit: about Brett Kavanaugh...) even by staunch conservatives is whether he might be soft on probable cause.
Dale
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
>> So no need to do a DNA test; we already know who all the close ancestors are / were.
>
> Hmmm. More accurate to say "we already know what the records say about our close ancestors."
>
> But what about great-grandma? You know, her and the guy that ran the feed store? That time when great-grandpa was away for a week?

The records are good enough for me.
They tell you who raised the kids.

A DNA test on yourself won't tell you if all of grandma's kids had the same biological father.
You have to test all the siblings or descendants to determine that.
Or you could just look at the family photos....
A DNA test on yourself might tell if you have some unusual ancestry.
But usually it's mostly the standard random white Euros. :-)

I do know of one of my ancestors who was an illegitimate child, born in 1856.
We know who her mother was, but we don't know who her father was.
She was raised in an adoptive family, and her grandfather named her in his will.
wbw

Trad climber
'cross the great divide
Aug 7, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
wbw, although your family was Scottish by culture, they could beViking by DNA since many raided and settled there.

That's an interesting thought Jan. Would blow the lid off the family lore that I have always heard.
Trump

climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 02:28pm PT
We never met our daughter’s biodad, but after seeing my daughter when they delivered her, the (white) nurses at the hospital told us they they thought that he was white, in contradiction to the description her biomom gave of him.

As a young child, (mostly white) aquaintances were often surprised to learn she was adopted, and thought they saw a family resemblance between her and me.

Her dna test says she’s 97% East Asian.

How anyone could think that my stunning Asian goddess daughter was genetically related to pasty white European me (beyond us both being humans) is beyond me.

But in our defense, one commonality I’ve noticed about us humans is that the stories other people tell themselves about YOU are often more about them than they are about you. I’ll bet I’m not so different, in that regard.

Best to you people!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 7, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
hey there say, as to your daughter... you know... it could be, due to her 'copying manerism' from you, as children to, as they grow... makes them look more like us, in
other ways, than just features... :)

you know-- eye sparkles... how much smile they use, or don't use, etc...



:)

that could be why, :)
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
wbw, although your family was Scottish by culture, they could beViking by DNA since many raided and settled there.



Now Jan did they inhabit the Shetland Isles

If so, it may be back to the drawing boards for me

Did any Vikings start from
zFinland


Return of the brown dwarf


Kao heard those results when she was looking at the newest data from the radio astronomy observatory, which helped the researchers determine the strong magnetic field. That field is also helping produce the auroras, which gave off the radio signal they detected. The auroras are similar to those on Earth that happen when our magnetic field interacts with solar wind.
'Ghost particle' found in Antarctica provides astronomy breakthrough
'Ghost particle' found in Antarctica provides astronomy breakthrough
Brown dwarfs can produce strong auroras as well, but the cause behind them is unclear because they don't have solar wind from nearby stars. One theory is that auroras happen when a planet or moon interacts with the brown dwarf's magnetic field.
PaulC

Trad climber
Traffic Jam Ledge
Aug 7, 2018 - 04:22pm PT
No deodorant & genetics----I sweat like anyone else; however, my armpits never stink. Climbing partners & others have confirmed this. Genetic testing revealed a variation in the ABC11 gene which is consistent with nonstinky pits (and dry earwax). Shovel teeth were noted by my dentist (he casually mentioned them). Genetic testing also confirmed the obvious; I am (have been) lactose intolerant. The ability to digest lactose after childhood which arose in certain populations was an evolutionary advantage.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 06:11pm PT



Evidence from family, adoption, and twin studies converges on the relevance of genetic factors in the development of addictions including SUDs and gambling.7–13 Weighted mean heritabilities for addictions computed from several studies of large cohorts of twins are shown in Fig. 1.14 Heritability is lowest for hallucinogens (0.39) and highest for cocaine (0.72).


blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 7, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
Just use a fake name / account if you want to get your DNA results but are worried about conspiracy theory stuff.

Hehe that won't help you in this era of big data correlation.

You will be correlated.

DMT

I suppose that's true, but then again even if you never get tested, you'll prob be "correlated" by your relatives who do. So I guess you're hosed if you're really worried about it.

wbw, although your family was Scottish by culture, they could beViking by DNA since many raided and settled there.

That's an interesting thought Jan. Would blow the lid off the family lore that I have always heard.

Lol, like your "family lore" would go back to the middle age Viking invasions. At least it looks like we know where you get your BS from.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
The fake McCoy from nevernever land.
Aug 7, 2018 - 08:39pm PT
Unsure as to what it actually means, but, I have been recently more interested
In simply the history of recent generations... specifically the things they did earlier in life that were perhaps not talked about a whole lot within the family. Perhapd you could call this more of the “nurture” side of the whole question of how we become who we are.
I recently found my family geneaology mapped out hundreds of years back, but its the much more recent details which seem more interesting or insightful to me.



Z Rehman

Gym climber
New York City
Oct 17, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
It's due to how mDNA and Y-DNA are passed down. It's not a fault of the testing, it's a result of biology and inheritance. Both of those are non-recombining DNA with their own known mutation rates. The lack of recombination makes them useful for tracking specific lineages and looking for common ancestors and they're both also useful for dating divergences as the mutation rate for each is relatively well known. Regards, Toshiba support
Aeriq

Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
Oct 18, 2018 - 06:02am PT
All English, Scottish, Irish and just enough Scandinavian to know someone was raped by a Viking- pure redneck stock.


Thanks for the good laugh, Contractor!
couchmaster

climber
Oct 18, 2018 - 10:18am PT
Thank you for that info Jan, you seem super sharp on this, was that your career?

For myself and brothers, we look so unalike that we have a Larry, Curly, Moe routine down where when asked about our late dad we each in turn say "Milkman, Postman, Garbageman". LOL. If our laughter gives us away, my little brother invariably points to me and states "Seriously, he was adopted". Then he proceeds to pick apart every flaw and difference between us that I have. LOL

My mom is getting ready to check out and is working on putting genealogy things together that she knows. My kid makes a comment that there is a facebook group with our last name, you should check it out dad. I finally did, some stranger asked me "Who's your dad's dad (grandfather). I pitched it out there and he comes back with a list of fathers fathers that stretches back to the 1300's ending with a mercenary who fought with the
White Company.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/medieval/mercenaries-hundred-years-war.html.

I found it interesting for about 20 min. But it doesn't change any essential facts of my life.

This seems right on the money, Jan noted:
"....It also turns out that that many east coast Indians had already mixed with shipwrecked Spaniards, Portuguese, Moors and Englishmen before the Pilgrims ever arrived. Even many traditional Indians had mixed DNA by 1600.

For details, check out Where have all the Indians Gone?

http://www.dnaexplain.com/Publications/PDFs/WhereHaveAlltheIndiansGone8-30-09JoggV3.2.pdf"
jogill

climber
Colorado
Oct 18, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
"In October 2018, [Elizabeth] Warren released the results of a genetic ancestry analysis . . . which "strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor in [her] pedigree, likely in the range of 6–10 generations ago".[53][54] Journalists reporting on the results stated that 6–10 generations ago would represent between 1/64 and 1/1,024 of Warren's ancestry." (Wiki)


Not sure this was a good move on her part, but quite an accomplished lady.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Oct 18, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
My wife is adopted. This year at 63 she sent away a DNA sample to whoever. & today at 63 almost 64 she met her 84-year-old biological father.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 18, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
hey there say, FRUMY... oh my, :O


i hope it was a good meeting, too...

thanks for sharing...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 18, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
It's not right that Warren got in trouble just for passing on a family story.
She claimed to be Native American, a truly outrageous lie that her alleged DNA test (she hasn't released the raw data to anyone other her presumably cherry picked expert) confirms rather than refutes.
(As to her "family story," who knows if it's true or not, the DNA test doesn't prove or disprove it, but that's really a red herring.)

Got to hand it to Warren: it's not easy to come up with stunt like DNA test that earns the scorn of virtually everyone across the political, racial, and cultural spectrums.


From https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1996/10/22/survey-diversity-lacking-at-hls-pa/
Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren is Native American.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Oct 19, 2018 - 11:31am PT
I don't need the test because my sloping forehead and protruding brow ridges tell me that I'm a Neanderthal.
Mei

Trad climber
mxi2000.net
Oct 19, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
I apologize if this is not the right thread to post this information, but I really do not want to start a new OT thread.

If you are interested in knowing your genetic health traits and risks, you can get the Ancestry test from 23andme, download the RAW test result data, and upload it to other DNA analysis service sites to obtain the health analysis. That'll save you about $100. Such sites include Promethease.com ($12) and CodeGen.eu (free) .

One might ask what do you do with a genetic health report?

One example of using genetic test is to find out your EPOE status (article: EPOE and Alzheimer's).

If your report shows you have an elevated risk of a certain disease, it might be helpful for you to start monitoring related health markers.


FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Oct 21, 2018 - 10:19pm PT
Neebe, it was good.
He didn't know about the pregnancy until after the adoption. He had told his wife that he had a child with his X girlfriend, but had not been told before she was given away. He had always wondered about her and was grateful to meet her. Now she has a new brother and two new sisters.
Aeriq

Sport climber
100-year Visitor
Jan 11, 2019 - 09:19am PT
Such a cool story about Julie, Frumy!

I got an e-mail out of the blue from the Borghoff family this week and I may have a half-brother in Pennsylvania that is four years older than me.

They have had a letter written and ready to send to me for years, but just pulled the trigger this week.

It turns out that my DNA may solve a 40-year-old mystery. He looked for years for his parents, but New York has sealed all adoption certificates - so he finally gave up.

His daughter has picked up the search, and with DNA had good success.

Should get a tube to spit into in the next couple of weeks - pretty heady stuff!

They said they have been keeping track of me for years through the climbing community (I think Supertopo!)

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jan 11, 2019 - 04:34pm PT
All English, Scottish, Irish and just enough Scandinavian to know someone was raped by a Viking- pure redneck stock.

I'm almost pure Viking stock (mostly Danish), so one of my ancestors probably did the raping. Hate to admit it.
ecdh

climber
the east
Jan 11, 2019 - 05:15pm PT
seems they depend on the amount of other input there is from the companies other donors.
my wife and i did ours, $100 each; mine came back very detailed about celtic migrations, east european tribes and of course vikings. my wifes simply said 'north asia' with a vague diagram that covered everything north of the himalaya between the pacific and the black sea...thanks, she could tell by looking in a mirror for free.

i deduce its a company thing because the japanese alone (and maybe other nations have done similar) have a very detailed study of the population from about 10 years ago when 30% of the population took part. so the datas there, just not all companies can access it.


neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 11, 2019 - 06:26pm PT
hey there say, frumy...

wow, thanks for more of the share...

Oct 21, 2018 - 10:19pm PT
Neebe, it was good.
He didn't know about the pregnancy until after the adoption. He had told his wife that he had a child with his X girlfriend, but had not been told before she was given away. He had always wondered about her and was grateful to meet her. Now she has a new brother and two new sisters.


wow, and aeriq... very interesting story... saw some of your share, too,
on the ol' facebook... :)
E

Ice climber
mogollon rim
Jan 12, 2019 - 04:42am PT
39 generations of directly traceable ancestry all they way back to Sigurd Hring and Munro dynasty and further.
Sigurd snake in the eye was 39th grandfather with also viking kings of kiev
Including Vladimir whom was the founder of the varangian guard which were mercenary warriors from Scandinavia in service of the Holy Roman Empire
Ancestry and family records


Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 12, 2019 - 08:43am PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 12, 2019 - 08:49am PT
Why all the hatin’ on the Vikings and assuming they had to resort to rape?
A lot of the places they liberated the wimmen prolly welcomed them with open arms!
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Jan 12, 2019 - 12:28pm PT
They were invited by many eastern Europeans as protection from invaders from the east.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Jan 12, 2019 - 08:21pm PT
Interesting Frumy, I did not know that. I have noticed with the two lines of my family who are Viking that we have relatives in Scandinavia and the British Isles, but also a few in eastern Europe which always seemed strange to me, although I know Vikings sometimes sailed to the Black Sea and up the Volga also.

A high proportion of pioneers and frontiersmen of the old West were of Viking stock also, although they did not know it. Many who were of English, Scottish, and Irish stock or so they thought, were actually Viking in their male lines. The name Chisolm for instance is Scottish but many of them are Viking by DNA. Adventurers to the end.

I was also surprised to find out that William the Conqueror who is depicted in history books as Norman French was in fact of Norwegian and Danish descent. His father's Vikings raided the French coast until the French king made an agreement to give him Normandy so that he would not attack Paris. Instead, William conquered England next.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 13, 2019 - 09:34am PT
Actually, the Vikings went down the Volga. It is possible they made a foray or two up it
when they visited Constantinople. There is Viking rune graffiti on the railing of the balcony in
the Hagia Sofia. Something to the effect “Sammy Hagar was here”. When they showed up in
Constantinople the sultan was so impressed he hired ‘em on the spot as his palace guard.
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