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John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 09:53am PT
if you are bi polar, then likely neither pole is good for you. If you have a modest income then there are second world countries with decent health care programs and rural living that one can find. Panama is one example. Super powers, even ex super powers, seem to have lots of big problems. Though smaller countries can too.

Edit:

(I'm allergic to almost all chemicals)

have you tried acupuncture? Its not a magic pill, but if it reduces the reaction by 30, 40 or 50 percent, which I have seen it happen, then wouldn't that be great?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:00am PT
Both Russia and the US are huge landmasses with very diverse experiences from region to region. To try and make generalizations is a popular sport but falls short of reality on the ground. You make many sweeping generalizations above based on limited regional experience.

Every empire is on a trajectory that ends in collapse, every one of them. The top .01% of sociopaths will attempt to milk or murder you where ever you go on the globe. The key is to not play and live as debt-free and under your means as possible.

So move where ever you like best and try it out. If you're not tied down to family/kids then you'd be foolish not to.

If you do move, report back from time to time.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:07am PT
John M
if you are bi polar, then likely neither pole is good for you. If you have a modest income then there are second world countries with decent health care programs and rural living that one can find. Panama is one example. Super powers, even ex super powers, seem to have lots of big problems. Though smaller countries can too.

I considered alternative countries, such as Finland, for example, which has good universal healthcare, some affordably priced rural homes, perfect nature and climate, and may be, on a long term, this can become a possibility, as they do offer immigration path for self-employed freelancers and remote-workers. But I don't know their language. And at my age over 45 just don't see that I have any capacity to start from scratch again, like I did in the US, not knowing language, laws, customs and ways of life of yet a new country. I intimately know only 2: US and Russia.
(southern countries don't work for me because I can't tolerate heat: my idea of super-warm is 70F, and comfortable indoor temp is 52F...)
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:08am PT
Agree on regional choices within US. So many options.

I doubt one can say the US is gone bad beyond hope.

Grass is always greener. Vacationing is different than living day to day when assessing a choice about where to live.

If you want the cool climate and socialized medical. Why not move to Canada?
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:12am PT
fear

Both Russia and the US are huge landmasses with very diverse experiences from region to region. To try and make generalizations is a popular sport but falls short of reality on the ground. You make many sweeping generalizations above based on limited regional experience.

Every empire is on a trajectory that ends in collapse, every one of them. The top .01% of sociopaths will attempt to milk or murder you where ever you go on the globe. The key is to not play and live as debt-free and under your means as possible.

So move where ever you like best and try it out. If you're not tied down to family/kids then you'd be foolish not to.

If you do move, report back from time to time.

My regional experience is not limited! Not to even mention I lived nomadic lifestyle for years, having lived in all kinds of states and cities, and rural locations, getting on the ground experiences (which cut off 1/3 of the US from the list of placed I ever'd like to live in again).
I also know, I had spend years researching this: tax situation in every state, income taxss, property taxes, tax situation for telecommuters for out of state employers, building codes and other related regulations, property prices, climate, soils, natural hazards, local culture.

My conclusions are drown upon all the above, detailed research and on the ground experience. Should I add corporate culture experience, which I found to be intolerabe in the US>
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:12am PT
(southern countries don't work for me because I can't tolerate heat: my idea of super-warm is 70F, and comfortable indoor temp is 52F...)

I can relate to that! When renting, I used to leave my windows open in winter prior to having a family and find ice crystals in the sink in AM.

Try exploring Northern WY/Maine/MT... there are still 'wilder' regions with less local regulation out in the sticks.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:15am PT
fear
I can relate to that! When renting, I used to leave my windows open in winter prior to having a family and find ice crystals in the sink in AM.

Try exploring Northern WY/Maine/MT... there are still 'wilder' regions with less local regulation out in the sticks.

You haven't read my next reply: I explored all aspects of life in these states, and these are not suitable for me and do not solve the issues that are making me leave to begin with. States are affected by global country-wide situation, and at the same time have their own unique aspects. My conclusion is nowhere in the US I can escape these issues. And right now I'm unable to and don't want to get back into corporate path for a required big paycheck to live normal life here, probably permanently.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:18am PT
fear
Every empire is on a trajectory that ends in collapse, every one of them. The top .01% of sociopaths will attempt to milk or murder you where ever you go on the globe. The key is to not play and live as debt-free and under your means as possible.

So move where ever you like best and try it out. If you're not tied down to family/kids then you'd be foolish not to.

Yes, 0.01% of sociopaths will try to take all that is left, this is my strong feeling.
I'm debt free. I had seen total collapse during USSR crash, and the ones who lived simple life in villages still could make do back then, because their needs were extremely low and they could produce own food. All could surivive off the grid.
There were shared sandpoint wells to get water, though a kilometer away but people used sleds to carry water. Wood burning stoves for heat, etc.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:22am PT
You should let us vote where to send you.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:23am PT
It sounds like you want to move back to a rural area in Russia then... Why not try it out?

Sometimes learning a completely new trade can offer some perspectives and opportunities too. I come from an IT background as well which can be soul-killing although profitable. In my own case learning new skills constantly keeps me sane.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:25am PT
DMT
Life is an adventure. When deliberating choice A vs B?
Choose C!
Go somewhere new! Mexican Riviera! Costa Rica! Argentina? Chile!
The thing is that, not having a huge money buffer, I'm not in a position to just travel the world right now. Got to preserve my savings as mush as possible, as I'm not working and probably won't be able to for a while. (and as I mentioned I have trouble dealing with hot weather). So, I'd need to settle somewhere, at least for several years, start developing my little farm.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:32am PT
fear
It sounds like you want to move back to a rural area in Russia then... Why not try it out?

Sometimes learning a completely new trade can offer some perspectives and opportunities too. I come from an IT background as well which can be soul-killing although profitable. In my own case learning new skills constantly keeps me sane.

I guess half of my heart wants to move to rural Russia...and half to stay in the US.
You're right: try it out.
I can buy a rural house with 2 acres of land for 10K USD in Russia, easliy.
Can try and see what happens. Not a big loss if I can't sell the house, I'd spend a lot more in the US on insurances, realtor fees, rents, taxes, etc.

May be US situation changes and healthcare becomes available for all, or cheap.
May be housing will be brought to more reasonable levels. (I'm seeing fixer shacks on 2,500 sq ft LOT (no joke) in town notorious for asbestos cancer epidemic, asbestos infestation everywehre sell for 100K now!)

And then I can decide.
May be I'll find it to be so horrible in Russia now, because of crime and rudeness of people, and lack of human rights, that I'll be forced to go to some plan C (Belarus!) or back to plan A return to the US and try to find some niche I can survive in, at least having a couple of goats and sheep without county red-tagging my dwelling.

Even from rural location, I expect to still work contracts in my field IT/programming, it's soul sucking, but no alternative to be starting at my age. Learning house building, repair and agricultural skills are priceless for long-term survival and saving money...
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:34am PT
I never thought that I would live in the desert, but I do. I also used to sleep with my windows open in the winter. I slept 10 months out of the year on my porch. But this was Yosemite where winters are not that harsh. Once I left Yosemite, my choices that I could afford in the US were places with 10 months of summer, with 4 months being pretty harsh, or 10 months of winter. I chose summer. I still love the United States, but there are days when I wish that I would afford to move to someplace like Panama.

Canada seems like a possibility for you, but I do understand that choosing a new country requires a certain level of energy. When ones health is difficult, that can make new choices tough. I also deal with health issues. America is not friendly towards people with health issues and insufficient funds.

I hope that things work out for you. Perhaps look for a Russian community within Canada.

Edit: Belarus sounds good too.

Did you see my above edit about acupuncture? just curious about your experience.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:38am PT
When in doubt... keep moving.

Keep the tee-vee's turned off wherever you go. It's all Pravda.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:39am PT
My conclusion is nowhere in the US I can escape these issues.


Ok, I'm out of this thread. You've decided already, you just lack the commitment. Otherwise, you would have already put money down on property in Russia. I predict you'll use the cover of your rejection of corporate culture to override the practicalities of moving elsewhere, since you seem focused on that, and that will get you the commitment you need.

Best of luck,
M
Roots

Mountain climber
Redmond, Oregon
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:42am PT
Sounds like you need to go on a vacation to Russia and take a hard look before deciding...


John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:42am PT
Damn dude you should limit it to just a few hours per night.

hahahaha.. that totally cracked me up. hahaha.. thanks for the laugh!
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:48am PT
John M

I never thought that I would live in the desert, but I do. I also used to sleep with my windows open in the winter. I slept 10 months out of the year on my porch. But this was Yosemite where winters are not that harsh. Once I left Yosemite, my choices that I could afford in the US were places with 10 months of summer, with 4 months being pretty harsh, or 10 months of winter. I chose summer. I still love the United States, but there are days when I wish that I would afford to move to someplace like Panama.

Canada seems like a possibility for you, but I do understand that choosing a new country requires a certain level of energy. When ones health is difficult, that can make new choices tough. I also deal with health issues. America is not friendly towards people with health issues and insufficient funds.

I hope that things work out for you. Perhaps look for a Russian community within Canada.

I had explored all possibilities of immigrating into Canada. First, immigrating there is A LOT harder now than it used to be. Especially at age over 45 -- severe loss of "points". Having a spouse (I do not) also helps. My profession is on-demand profession, but it does not matter, age alone cuts me off. One needs a job offer from Canadian employer who'll be a sponsor to get enough points. In 2015 Canada revamped point system and made it a lot harder to get in. There're thousands of young married professionals with advanced degrees, from India and China vying for Canada entry right now, with job offers on hand Need I say more...

Regarding summer vs. winter....say, one can make through 4 hot months using A/C, but these areas don't produce trees normally, or big conifer trees. Confier trees is something I like the most, want to be near them.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:52am PT
John M
Did you see my above edit about acupuncture? just curious about your experience.

I tried it once, it was uncomfortable, I didn't feel good after and next day got the worst migraine I ever had.
It was kind of scary experience and I decided not to try anymore. I do use accupressure, though, on my own.

What really helps me is working outside, in the (organic) garden, working with animals, bringing waster from a well in a bucket or doing to the river to get water and bringing it from there, gathering firewood in nearby forest....rain or shine....this being my life not vacation.
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:52am PT
formerclimber has 8 posts in total, all today. TROLL
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:53am PT
yep.. I miss the conifers. But the desert has its beauty too. Seems like you have looked at Canada already. Out of curiosity, what about Belarus? what are its pluses and minuses? Or have you already ruled out third options? If so.. I would go back to Russia for a visit/stay in a rural town. When is the last time that you were back?

Edit: yes.. accupuntucre can trigger heavy releases which can cause problems, but these are generally short term. You should have talked to your acupuncturist. NAET is a treatment form that uses acupressure. It helped me a lot with sensitivities. There are plenty of health care options that cause short term pain for long term gain. Surgery can hurt like hell, is one example.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:56am PT
Mungeclimber

Ok, I'm out of this thread. You've decided already, you just lack the commitment. Otherwise, you would have already put money down on property in Russia. I predict you'll use the cover of your rejection of corporate culture to override the practicalities of moving elsewhere, since you seem focused on that, and that will get you the commitment you need.

Best of luck,
M

I'm not sure I exactly understood what you were trying to say...
To explain: one does not put money down on property in Russia, without being there physically and permanently!
Russian real estate tansactions are dangerous things and pepole get killed over "them", money get stolen (CASH is involved), plus a lot of crooks and deception, and improper or disputed ownership issues. No "home inspectors" available! No "title companies"! No "escrow companies" ! No one can be trusted. There're "black notaries", "black realtors" who work with mafia that kills home sellers or buyers getting cash or home ownership transfer in their name with forget signature of dead person!
One has to live in the region for a while, scanning and researching properties and documentation that accompanies them, to get proper transaction, while finding the right lawer and bank who will store CASH for duration of property registration process with the government, so that cash is no stolen by bank employees or buyer (these happen!), and having nothing bad happen to you in the meainwhile.
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:59am PT
He is saying that it sounds like you have already made up your mind and just want people to push you in the direction of going to Russia.

Edit: that is if there is no place that you can comfortably live in the US.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:00am PT
Sure seems like corruption in the real estate market. The relatively well ordered real estate market in the US might be safer.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:03am PT
My problems with the US:
the country appears to be a forced labor camp run by the rich and heading into some mad direction of world aggression, destruction of own land, spiraling state debt and division between rich and poor, at this point.
I say "forced labor camp", because healthcare issue is the hook used to install the forced element here (below). I absolutely don't enjoy corporate rat race, which already made me physically ill, from stress and dissatisfaction from meaningless work (software engineer), and unable to work, basically, driven to a total breakdown and diagnosis of biploar disorder, along with some other issues resulting from prior accident.

Your long term socialist slave training coupled with an uncritical acceptance of the western Left's propaganda and deranged value system is coming home to roost in your overwrought psyche.

The psychological problems you have wrongly attributed in some way to the U.S. would occur anywhere -- given most of your lifestyle choices. They will not go away by moving to a high latitude authoritarian state where the average amount of dopamine provided by sun exposure would not keep a Pygmy shrew happy.

You perhaps need to move to a very sunny climate with low population, get outside a lot more, radically limit your screen time ( computers, TV, smartphones) and quit listening to fake news as#@&%es.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:04am PT
Mungeclimber

"Sure seems like corruption in the real estate market. The relatively well ordered real estate market in the US might be safer."

Correct. In Russian real estate transaction, I have to first and foremost worry about my personal safety. Next I have to worry about my money (or my home if I'm a seller) not be stolen. Having a good protocol of steps allows to resolve these issues, I had a chance to watch how it's done safely in 2010 when I sold my flat there. (realtor was "trusted" through local friends, now I don't have this option going to another region. Realtor offered me armed guards for the duration of transaction, but I refused) A lawyer by your side allows to address issues of improperly documented or disputed ownership cases.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:07am PT
John M

He is saying that it sounds like you have already made up your mind and just want people to push you in the direction of going to Russia.

Edit: that is if there is no place that you can comfortably live in the US.

May be it's true.... may be it's easier to see from the side. Last 4 months Ive spent going through tons of US information/data on all aspects of life and I couldn't really find a solution. The only possible solution was a northern state bordering Canada, but Lyme disease took a powerful hold there and expanding, armies of ticks, that's what locals told me....in some areas it's not "if" it's "when" you get Lyme if you go outdoors. Farming is a lot of outdoors, and I camp. I don't have insurance, got bad health already, don't want to deal with Lyme disaster as I love to be outdoors. I grew up in the Northern climate without ticks and few mosquito, never used repellents, can roll in the grass, never check for ticks....
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:11am PT
Ward Trotter
Your long term socialist slave training coupled with an uncritical acceptance of the western Left's propaganda and deranged value system is coming home to roost in your overwrought psyche.

The psychological problems you have wrongly attributed in some way to the U.S. would occur anywhere -- given most of your lifestyle choices. They will not go away by moving to a high latitude authoritarian state where the average amount of dopamine provided by sun exposure would not keep a Pygmy shrew happy.

You perhaps need to move to a very sunny climate with low population, get outside a lot more, radically limit your screen time ( computers, TV, smartphones) and quit listening to fake news as#@&%es.

You say I was under socialist slave training? Haha.
The only SLAVE LIFE AND TRAINING are in America!!! Since long time ago!
Life in America is corporpate slavery now, for most.
And even average russian village grandma is a lot more free, capable and independent, street-wise and quick-thinking and strong in dangerous life situations than average American forced to work for corporpations!

Not sure why you dive condescending advise about "sunny climate" and "tv" (I don't listen to one, sounds like you do), apply it to yourself, not applicable to me. And as to getting outside....I think I do it more than you, I actually had been living in a tent for extensive periods of time, as not easger to jump back into rat race system, neither pay $$$ for overpriced crapshacks in this market.

I did not attributed "psychological problems" to the US, where did you get it? Your really should stop putting words into mouths of others.
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:15am PT
edit: gone back on this thread to delete my posts. clearly a waste of mt time.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:22am PT
johntp

I wouldn't say America is beyond hope, but all the negatives you mention are real and unlikely to change for the better (my perspective).

You've done the research, or I'd suggest rural Maine, Vermont or such.

Did my research on the states like MT, ID and by and large they are still expensive, although some reasonable properties (by US standards) can be had.

As others have written, Canada? Don't know much about it other than BC.

Alaska? Easy to live off the grid there and most soil is fertile. Relatively a "live and let live" mentality from my understanding.

If you're American born here, it's different for you. And you may know more things, simply, by nature of living here since day 1. And it's VERY hard to leave home country: emotionally, mentally, it's really hard. Plus, if you don't have 2nd citizenship you might need to jump through tons of hoops to get it, to move away and become expat. Plus learning new language! So for born-American, becoming expat may make little sense. (efforts vs. benefits)

I'm hoping that situation with healthcare may start changing after the next election.

Maine, was on top of my list but there's aspect that makes it not acceptable.
Similar considerations for MT and ID, which also are the states that I generally like.
And, unlike Maine, they're expensive.

Alaska...is a good state....but homes, even bare land, are very expensive there now.

I responded above regarding Canada: Canada immigration system changed recently, and now near-impossible to immigrate at age over 45, need sponsoring employer first.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:23am PT
Россиа лучще? Ты шутесь? Hahahaha!
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:26am PT
Reilly
"Россиа лучще? Ты шутесь? Hahahaha!"

Yes, just real my original post in this thread, it explains in detail in which ways it's better for me and why. Every situation has pros and cons, of different weights and impacts, depending on what kind of life a person wants to live.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:32am PT
Considering various taxes, climate, vegetation, real estate prices, local laws, building regulations, presence of public lands nearby, local culture, I found Northern Minnesota is the state that could work. But the bummer is epidemic of ticks, Lyme on the rise, armies of ticks there now, everybody uses pesticide permerthrin (Maine is in the same situation). I just want to live without wondering if I'm going to get Lyme next month or next year, since I can't use permerthrin, only natural oils, but not sure if they do work for ticks. Some say not really. About MN, they say one camping in there will get Lyme (and bunch of other stuff that ticks infect you with), not if - but when.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:34am PT
I hear you. I could live on Lk Baikal or Kamchatka. Going to sail from Sweden thru St Petersburg thru White Sea Canal around Kola to Norway in a year. Maybe weíll go to Новая Земля тоже but I donít want to glow in the dark.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:35am PT
johntp
As others have written, this is starting to look like troll looking for validation to go to Russia as you reject all input.

From my standpoint you're a troll.
If you don't like my thread, don't post in it, don't look.
That's a definition of troll, a person who places insults into threads they have nothing to do with.

Don't make it personal insults.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:37am PT
...I want on MY OWN land....

I truly understand this desire but have learned there's no such thing anywhere on the planet. Lines have been drawn all across the globe and anywhere you are subordinate to someone with more rifles than you. If you have something of realized value, someone will try to take it.

Gov't is really just a larger well run criminal enterprise with better indoctrination for the youth. And as you've noted in areas without much reach or interest of the squid, lesser criminals with fewer rifles than you will still try to take stuff.

Living as a hermit far away in some frozen land perhaps might seem attractive. Perhaps what you seek in happiness might better be defined in your own head first before seeking an address? Family, friends, and lovers are far more important than what particular arbitrary lines on the globe you dwell within.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:39am PT
Reilly

I hear you. I could live on Lk Baikal or Kamchatka. Going to sail from Sweden thru St Petersburg thru White Sea Canal around Kola to Norway in a year. Maybe weíll go to Новая Земля тоже but I donít want to glow in the dark.

Lake Baikal was on my list initially....
Not a good choice though, because of overall crime situation in bigger area. It'd OK for short term tourist visit, while avoiding staying in tents in random unsecured places close to any roads or settlements. In villages....very bad theft there, and worse, not a good area.

Kamchatka is beautiful....but very expensive life there and lack of amentities, and harsh climate.

I'd chose Mountain Altai, my dream location, but long-term living has own caveats there....so I picked safer European part of Russia close to EC border, in fact hope to visit Estonia weekly.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:47am PT
He was referring to Gunkies troll post I think.

Hey, even if he is a troll at least its not a politard post.
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:47am PT
Doesn't seem like a troll. Seems like someone who has looked hard at this, doesn't really want to move back to Russia, but is running out of options in America. Having health problems while living in America is very difficult, unless you have plenty of money. But long term chronic health problems that limit ones ability to either take a corporate job, or make loads of money, make it very very difficult here.

have you considered that there is lyme disease in Russia? Does Russia go after it aggressively like they do in America? Could that be why it seems more prevalent in America? Just thoughts.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:49am PT
fear

...I want on MY OWN land....

I truly understand this desire but have learned there's no such thing anywhere on the planet. Lines have been drawn all across the globe and anywhere you are subordinate to someone with more rifles than you. If you have something of realized value, someone will try to take it.

Gov't is really just a larger well run criminal enterprise with better indoctrination for the youth. And as you've noted in areas without much reach or interest of the squid, lesser criminals with fewer rifles than you will still try to take stuff.

Living as a hermit far away in some frozen land perhaps might seem attractive. Perhaps what you seek in happiness might better be defined in your own head first before seeking an address? Family, friends, and lovers are far more important than what particular arbitrary lines on the globe you dwell within.

Oh yeah, I've spent years thinking about this subject....agree...to various degrees, no
land is truly owned by anyone, anywhere. The question is the degree of control and the risk. At this point in history degree of control over land in the US reached insane proportions. I owned 2 homes here, I never felt they were mine. If you don't mow the lawn, if you build they way you like it, if you put a fence, if you put a couple of goats in the back yard, if you fail to pay crazy %4 tax (these do exist), etc....you're fined, can be jailed, land can be sold off auction for the lien. I'm not even mentioning HOA and CC&R communities!! :)) Communists never established anything like these kinds of crazy controls over private lots (most poeple had private lots for summer homes and gardens in USSR)

Familly, lovers? I'm a complete loner, hermit!
Have you heard of Agafia? They have a couple of documentaries on her on youtube, Agafia of Siberia. My kind of life.
There're a lot of forest hermits like her in Russia...she's not alone.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:55am PT
John M

Doesn't seem like a troll. Seems like someone who has looked hard at this, doesn't really want to move back to Russia, but is running out of options in America. Having health problems while living in America is very difficult, unless you have plenty of money. But long term chronic health problems that limit ones ability to either take a corporate job, or make loads of money, make it very very difficult here.

have you considered that there is lyme disease in Russia? Does Russia go after it aggressively like they do in America? Could that be why it seems more prevalent in America? Just thoughts.

There're 2 major tick risks in Russia:
 tick borne encephalitis (which makes Lyme look like innocent flu) -- but there're working, safe vaccines against tick-encephalitis.

 Lyme is new and is on the rise. However regions that I'm considering: while they do report rare cases of Lyme, these small numbers are nothing like huge yearly numbers from Maine, VT and Minnesota. And there're fewer ticks there: people say they hardly ever saw may be a couple of ticks total, and that on a dog.

In Russia, it's much easier to test for Lyme than in the US, and yes they're taking this epidemiologic situation very seriously, do studies, issue warnings, spray parks and camps for ticks. If I get Lyme in Russia, which can mean several months in a hospital, at least I won't be bankrupted ! :)
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
I think what fear said is the right thing:
go to Russia and try, not having mindset that this is forever move (so I'd hold onto any home renovations/improvements)...1-2 years will allow to see if it's right, if I survive (lots of out-of-control drunks in rural places)...in the meanwhile may be situation with healthcare in the US improves (and Bernie wins election)
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
John M

yep.. I miss the conifers. But the desert has its beauty too. Seems like you have looked at Canada already. Out of curiosity, what about Belarus? what are its pluses and minuses? Or have you already ruled out third options? If so.. I would go back to Russia for a visit/stay in a rural town. When is the last time that you were back?

Belarus...It has much lower crime rate than Russia, for both property and violent crimes. Belarus, unlike Russia, has death penalty, and seems like this is what makes violent criminals think twice.
Belarus people are generally more polite and mild-mannered compared to Russians (my father is from Belarus), nicer culture in Belarus.
It's ruled by a dictator Lukashenko, but apparently dictatorship at least helped to establish law and order; laws do get observed in Belarus now, and gangs had been destroyed.
Belarus being closer to Europe has more European aspects in culture, especially in Western Belarus parts that borders with Lithuania and Poland.
Russian citizens can easily get permanent residency in Belarus, special agreement.
There a lot of inexpensive rural village houses, $5-$20 range.
Some big parks with nice untouched forests, overall nice Nothern type nature, still a lot of forests left.
Big drawback is some radiation from Chernybyl is still there (not everywhere, it's spot by spot), and Belarus lowered allowed radioactivity standards for own agricultural products. For this reason, I think best to buy foods in Lithuania or Poland, whatever is closer.
There're also some ridiculous and intrusive laws, but things are changing all the time..

I lived in Belarus long time ago in the 80, it was a different world, of course, but the culture of people does not change that much.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:33pm PT
another nickname

My impression is that Russia, excluding urban tourist traps, is at least a bit cheaper on average than Mexico.
I'm not familiar with Mexico prices at all...
I can buy village log home from $1000 to $10,000.
If home was updated with european-style bathroom (instead of outhouse), running hot/cold water and shower/sinks, for $15,000-$20,000
This is for average region. If go to region with particularly beautiful nature, tourist places, say close to Black Sea or in Mountain Altai, simple log homes will start from $20,000

Food: store food is actually very expensive in Russia....but I plan to have own little farm. Gas is cheap. Medical help is cheap or free. Medications are cheap.
Education is free or cheap.


Personally I find many aspects of Russian culture to be appealing, but an American's impression of these things is almost entirely irrelevant to the native-born.

As potential tourist, it's astonishing that a ticket for a 7,000-mile train ride to the Pacific is (in theory, unless I'm mistaken) available for less than $200. Tourist agencies don't recommend this, for various reasons they don't come right out and say.

The cheap train ticket is "platzkart": 6 people per each open section of train car.
The better ones are cupe: 2 or 4 people in private room.
The reason they don't recommend cheap ones is probably feel you won't enjoy patzkart ride. There'll be smells, from foods and bodies (no shower), half dressed people, someones feet on your bed if you're on the upper shelf, noise as patzkart is open system, people walking right by back and forth day and night. No space to stand in the corridor, as corridor is also taken by beds people sleep on, in two levels. Criminal element is more likely to ride platzkart. Also, some "cupe" tickets include toilet right inside the cupe, private restroom. Shared car restroom is not for the faint of heart.


Air travel is also quite cheap. Mountain areas are of course very remote from most of country.

I gather that one's rights/relationship to "authorities" as a tourist vs. dual citizen vs. regular ole citizen would differ.

Despite whatever downsides to USA there may be, obviously one wouldn't want to mess in any negative ways with the Russian bureaucracy.

Dual citizens in Russia, enter Russia as Russian citizens, subject to all Russian laws for citizens, and do not really have any protections from 2nd citizenship.

Foreign tourists normally get much better treatment from the authorities. However there was a case of American student killed in Buryatia not too long ago, and clearly it's a case of cover up, where local authorities framed it all as death of exposure, despite facts pointing in opposite direction. His body got 2nd autopsy in the US, and US firmly insists he was murdered. But nothing can get through local small town coverup....


As for Lyme disease, this is grossly overblown concern -- purely as a matter of medical science.

Did you mean in Russia or in the US? In the US, Northestern states, it's a huge real problem now; spread a lot in the last few years, because of climate change and de-predation there's really an epidemic. I talked to outdoorsy people from these states and they're all taking precautions against ticks and watching for them, wear special treated clothes, all scared of Lyme and it's a real deal. Even one doctor ended up in a hospital for several months, even he wasn't able to recognize early signs to stop it in its tracks early enough to avoid hospitalization.


Interesting that in Russia, occult healers and such are much more widely consulted than in USA. Not my cup of tea.
Yes, this's tremendously popular. Most of them are crooks but some are real deal, as I can attest from personal experience.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
Not my cup of tea.

Поганки чаи! 🤪

And how much for a nice used Zhiguli? 😉

(I know thereís no such thing as a nice used Zhiguli)
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:46pm PT
johnntp

formerclimber, I'm not here to get in a beef with you. I really did offer some constructive recommendations. Did you look at the link on Alaska property I posted earlier?

I found that in two minutes by googling "alaska land cheap". A more thorough search would find even better prices for land suitable for homesteading off grid.

If you are going to categorically reject all input other than agreement to go back to Russia, what are you asking the question for?

I had spent considerable time analyzing Akaska real estate market.
With the money I'd be willing to spend in the US, one can not buy Alaska home that is not a 1) total fixer that could be former meth lab or 2) has needed for me communications (I require on-grid electricity and need some wired internet, Satellite internet won't support my work) 3) not landlocked and has year-round access not on snowmobile, atv, or boat 4) has at least half-acre lot and not in the middle of crime-ridden area or city 4) not in a flood or tsunami zone
Prices went up a lot.
Stewart Johnson

Mountain climber
lake forest
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:47pm PT
Try climbing again
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:48pm PT
Climbing is not an option for me again.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
I require on-grid electricity and need some wired internet, Satellite internet won't support my work

I would wager finding reliable hardline/cable internet access is still going to be very difficult in rural areas of Russia. I know for a fact that it's hard or impossible to get in the US in many rural areas I've looked for homes. I need very similar high-speed reliable lines to do my work and that severely curtailed where I could live here.

Roll the dice man, head back on over and see what happens. Hopefully this crazy Russiaphobia wanes here and saner heads prevail.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
To fear and johntp:

I can much easier find all that in Russia.
I'm in constant communication with farmers, freelancers living in rural places, city people who moved to the village.
Internet is not a problem. There're good 4G possibilities.
There're good wire possibilities (DSL, sometimes fiber). I can actually get local administration to run wire to my house.
Of course, internet availability is not uniform everywhere, one has to look at coverage maps.
Electricity is not any kind of problem at all. Everything there has electricity and lines do get repaired propmtly.
This is for $10K house with 2 acres.
The bad thing will be not electricity but roads, need good 4x4 and a winch to get myself unstuck.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:20pm PT
fear
I would wager finding reliable hardline/cable internet access is still going to be very difficult in rural areas of Russia. I know for a fact that it's hard or impossible to get in the US in many rural areas I've looked for homes. I need very similar high-speed reliable lines to do my work and that severely curtailed where I could live here.

In the US, also, a lot depends on a county.....Pend'o'Reille county in WA (very rural) installs fiber all over rural locations. Chelan County in WA does the same, I believe.
Mason county in WA has Comcast cable internet and other cable companies servicing rural parcels. Bonner County Idaho: I've seen Northland cable internet on 10 acre parcels.

My work can be done over DLS or even good uninterrupted wifi from tower, this is easier.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:25pm PT
johntp

And you can find those in Russia AND what you are asking for??

I have friends that use satellite internet for transmitting/receiving detailed geological and environmental data transfer in remote locations. Why do you need wired internet?

You said you could live off grid. Which is it?

I answered above why I can easily find them in Russia. Soviet infrastructure was extensive and it's still there.
Satelline internet won't work for me because of latency. I need to be able to have meetings using VoiP or video chats sometimes in my line of work. Also interruptions are not acceptable because this results in being logged out of remote server, where often most of the work is done.

I didn't say that I could life "off grid"...it's definitely not in this thread. I said I need "on grid".
A Essex

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:29pm PT
MuriKKKa is becomig a fascist paranoid hillbilly $hitshow that it is becoming harder to dirtbag in. It is a an unkind brutal system, becoming the Purge. Europe and China are already making side deals, the market will crash soon enough and they will gladly pick up the pieces of this patriotic sham.

Putin is an authoritarian that controls media, but at least he is honest about it. He is smart, probably the richest man in the world, and he always has a wry smile like the has the Ace up his sleeve. #Putin2020

how is the climbing in Russia?
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:36pm PT
another nickname

I recently saw a couple of GREAT movies about Russia as gangsterland 1990s (I know that's ancient history now), by a deceased director Aleksei Balabanov. The films were "Brother" and "Cargo." Perhaps compared with some of Quentin Tarantino's work.

MOUNTAINEERING ANGLE: Sergei Bodrov Jr. played lead in" Brother" and apparently became like Tom Cruise of Russia.

While making a film was killed at age 30 by a massive ice and mud flow in the Caucasus. The slide covered nearly 10 miles and killed 125 people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolka_Glacier

I liked Cargo 200 too....recently, watched it again. I think it really showed what was happening at that time, the corruption and betrayal. In rural places it is still like this, to this day. (didn't get to watch Brother, don't like reminders of the 90s rule of mafias).
Bodrov dying in ice flow was just shocking...and yes there're some mythical versions out there, of the reasons for it.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
johntp


I want on MY OWN land, without ridiculous building codes, be it a yurt, teepee or whatever, this is a big deal for me.

To me that implies off grid living.

I'm done here. Go to Russia; it's what you want to be told.

Strongly disagree. Off grid living means not being connected to public utilities and not dependent on them.
What I said "I want on MY OWN land, without ridiculous building codes, be it a yurt, teepee or whatever, this is a big deal for me." does not imply the above in any way.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
You lasted twice as long as I did in the USA. Go ahead and leave. Youíll be glad you did.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
another nickname

From St. Petersburg it's a 30-hour drive or a $300 (RT) flight to Sochi -- which I assume is nearest extensive area of alpine (caucusus) within Russia. Probably the Alps or Norway is same distance or closer....

. The US State Dept. currently doesn't recommend going to Mt. Elbrus-- (my recollection of some of this specific information is weak).

I bet there's some rock climbing in Crimea -- but it might be a little bit complicated there these days, especially for non-natives.

There are definitely things in Urals -- alpine & cragging.

There's crazy-ass stuff waaay out east --- the geography becomes vastly complex.

Mt Elbrus best be avoided. But Sochi and mountain area north of it are OK. Caucasus Nature Preserve, Mezmay, Guzeripl, Kamennomostskiy offer come climbing.
In Crimea, yes, there's climbing, as to complications I think there might be a problem using Visa card there/banking services.
Beautiful mountains and lots of climbing in Mountain Altai and Sayan Mountains.
And yes, lot of stuff further east or north from Central Siberia....
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
Dingus Milktoast

Hmmm, it appears you're screwed.

Sorry.

Ciao
DMT

I don't really want to travel to other countries...
I'm fluent in Russian and English, familiar with life in Russia/US, and don't want to venture and live to some place unknown, with unknown language and different mentality.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:53pm PT
another nickname

One astonishing thing about Russia is the river network. One thinks of the historical "Canadian voyagers"..... and various obsessive, crazy paddling adventurers of today.....

It would be entirely possible to put together canoe trips in Russia that would last for YEARS......given a 100-mile portage here and there (or possibly canals).

As a teenager, I spent summers traveling on a yacht down river networks in the North, we went from Moscow to White Sea for example, each trip took months.
One time we had to escape from drunk villagers, all in fisherman's village were drunk non-stop day after day, and they got aggressive ....escaped into a bad storm on Onega lake and it was dark already (it's a huge lake, like a sea) felt lucky we got out alive.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:59pm PT
A Essex

MuriKKKa is becomig a fascist paranoid hillbilly $hitshow that it is becoming harder to dirtbag in. It is a an unkind brutal system, becoming the Purge. Europe and China are already making side deals, the market will crash soon enough and they will gladly pick up the pieces of this patriotic sham.

Putin is an authoritarian that controls media, but at least he is honest about it. He is smart, probably the richest man in the world, and he always has a wry smile like the has the Ace up his sleeve. #Putin2020

how is the climbing in Russia?

Climbing is good if you live close to nice mountains areas, otherwise have to travel in summer for outdoor climbing (distances too big for driving). Not much of it in Central Russia, got to either go close to Caucasus mountains (hot climate), or East, to Ural, Sayan, Altai mountains....there're a lot more places but pretty much anything East of Lake Baikal is not really safe for this kind of travel now.

Unfortunately, "unkind brutal system" is how one can describe the current US situation...
Well if the crash comes, may be at least it makes homes affordable....
I see that housing will be privatized more and more into the hands of big corporations, and their goal is to create a nation of renter slaves. They already took over hotel industry, over taxi industry....over short term rentals...taking over medical industry.....I believe their next target will be long term rentals and depriving people of home ownership completely.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
johntp

Okay, I'll take the bait.

You sir, want everything for nothing. Doesn't work that way in the US.

Go home.

You seem to have a problem with immigrants since you say "go home". My home is here too. You have no more home here than me. Do you say these things on the street? Watch out these words may end poorly in the street situation. Or, only run bigotry on the forums, from behind the screens?

As to wanting everything for nothing: may be it's you who's like this? Don't project it on me.
I'm willing to pay reasonable for reasonable. And situation/prices here is NOT reasonable.

Don't tell me "how it works in the US". I doubt you know how it works here and doubt you have any control over it. Next election will bring some surprises for you, like Bernie Sanders, I hope.
Mei

Trad climber
mxi2000.net
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
Seeing the title of the thread, I knew I could offer no answer, but I clicked in anyway. Maybe I was curious what made you question whether ďAmerica gone bad beyond hope.Ē Reading your posts, I could sense that the struggles were real. Somehow I found many of them relatable (not that moving to Russian is ever an option for me.) While itís easy for people to dismiss you or question your sincerity in seeking advice once they feel that the wisdom they offered were not taken with the seriousness it deserves (how dare you!), I understand that being as analytical as you are, youíve gotten no stones unturned and yet still have no clear vision into the landscape.

I believe youíve covered all, or almost all, possible avenues of getting yourself out of the bind, but there is one area I do not see questioned. One reason that you feel very limited in your searches is your health. In my mind, a healthy adult should be able to adapt to any climate and environment heís exposed to. Among other things, if you have any joint issue as an aftermath of your prior climbing accident, I wonder what cold climate would do to it esp. when you age. If you are so willing to make drastic changes to your life, have you looked into taking drastic measures to fix your health? Depending on the underlying causes of your health issues, you might find some serious detoxing, fasting, or diet change (elimination) helpful if they hit the right spot. These are not pseudoscience, but are oftentimes dismissed too quickly. Maybe it deserves a duration of dedication to look into your health before you start uprooting.

Iím sure you didnít expect anyone on the forum to be able to offer you an answer, but for the time you take to articulate your hundreds of threads of considerations, I hope you at least find the discussion a helpful bouncing board, rather than a total waste of time. Best wishes to solving your inner debate.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
If you pin your hopes on 'elected' puppets anywhere on the planet you will be sorely dissapointed.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:28pm PT
Mei

Seeing the title of the thread, I knew I could offer no answer, but I clicked in anyway. Maybe I was curious what made you question whether ďAmerica gone bad beyond hope.Ē Reading your posts, I could sense that the struggles were real. Somehow I found many of them relatable (not that moving to Russian is ever an option for me.) While itís easy for people to dismiss you or question your sincerity in seeking advice once they feel that the wisdom they offered were not taken with the seriousness it deserves (how dare you!), I understand that being as analytical as you are, youíve gotten no stones unturned and yet still have no clear vision into the landscape.

I believe youíve covered all, or almost all, possible avenues of getting yourself out of the bind, but there is one area I do not see questioned. One reason that you feel very limited in your searches is your health. In my mind, a healthy adult should be able to adapt to any climate and environment heís exposed to. Among other things, if you have any joint issue as an aftermath of your prior climbing accident, I wonder what cold climate would do to it esp. when you age. If you are so willing to make drastic changes to your life, have you looked into taking drastic measures to fix your health? Depending on the underlying causes of your health issues, you might find some serious detoxing, fasting, or diet change (elimination) helpful if they hit the right spot. These are not pseudoscience, but are oftentimes dismissed too quickly. Maybe it deserves a duration of dedication to look into your health before you start uprooting.

Iím sure you didnít expect anyone on the forum to be able to offer you an answer, but for the time you take to articulate your hundreds of threads of considerations, I hope you at least find the discussion a helpful sounding board, rather than a total waste of time. Best wishes to solving your inner debate.

First, I got a very good suggestion on this forum, about trying to stay in Russia for some time first, without making it permanent move right away and deciding later. I see this as holding onto additional investments into home/land, taking less animals than I would like to, and not expanding my set of belongings. I think I'm going to do exactly this. Instead of traveling the world, may be use this time to travel to different areas of Russia and compare.

As to health....not only I can't adapt to heat, I hate it with all my guts, anything over 75F is a misearable temperature. It's easier to tolerate it being outdoor, camping, but once it gets to the mid-80s, this is it. Wouldn't be able o work in the garden and would be laying under A/C set on max. Not every climate is for everyone. Some people like cold and some people like warm or hot. I grew up in Moscow, with very gold climate at that time (it got warmer now), back then it was dropping to -40C (same as -40F). I like cold climate, real winter, real spring, and some fall....like what I grew up with. My medical issues relate not only to serious injuries from climbing accident, I had another accident later and neurological disease, plus bipolar which go way beyond stuff like diet/detoxification, I've been into tracking diets for over 10 years by now, did what I could in this department. I like cold and snow just fine, my native environment. Long season of "summer" cooks you inside, melts your brains, takes away will for life. No worries about going back to cold climate. When I was growing up, actually, anyone had to pass medical comission to be allowed to partake in school travel to warm latitudes, to climate way less hot than California...heat is dangerous stuff. There're some kind of Yaks in Himalayas, I heard they die if temperature goes above 71F...
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:33pm PT
fear

If you pin your hopes on 'elected' puppets anywhere on the planet you will be sorely dissapointed.

You have to pin on something, even if it's a puppet. And take lesser evil, the way life goes. I can't pin my hopes on eco hippie collective sitting in the White House soon!
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
Ireland?
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
You've clearly decided that everything here sucks, so definitely move. Post back with some pics of your Dacha, or whatever they're called. Russia is a fascinating place. Just recently read a great biography of Peter the Great. Or you could go to Stolby and die soloing like the crazy people there. Wow. That was sarcasm, btw. I hope you find what works. Stolby IS crazy, however.

You will find, however, that no matter where you go, there you are.

BAd
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
Root

Sounds like you need to go on a vacation to Russia and take a hard look before deciding...

Yep, long working vacation, 1-2 years... then your reference point changes, it takes time, and you start to see things around you differently. I have to give adjustment time for initial culture shock which is inevitable. Then can decide for long term plans.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
Bad Climber

You've clearly decided that everything here sucks, so definitely move. Post back with some pics of your Dacha, or whatever they're called. Russia is a fascinating place. Just recently read a great biography of Peter the Great. Or you could go to Stolby and die soloing like the crazy people there. Wow. That was sarcasm, btw. I hope you find what works. Stolby IS crazy, however.

You will find, however, that no matter where you go, there you are.

Highlighted is a very wrong statement.
Sorry, living in Somalia, US, Canada, Venezuela, Afghanistan and India aren't the same things. Wherever your precious self goes, it's external environment that can kill you (or harm you in other major ways), without concern of who and what you are.
Or, it can kill you solely based on your race and gender. Being nice, does not help when thugs come onto you, in a land with no law, I assure you. It also does not protect you from discrimination in a country where it's legal and open.

Also, you're dead wrong about me deciding that "everything here sucks" (do you feel this way yourself, right?). I stated very clearly which things became unacceptable, deal breaker things, life or death things (as in case of healthcare, and potential of being bankrupted by it), negating all that is good, and I hope that they will change soon.
Trump

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:51pm PT
Youíre the expert on you.

My best advice is to stay on your meds.

Best wishes, wherever you take your life!
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
Trump

Youíre the expert on you.

My best advice is to stay on your meds.

Best wishes, wherever you take your life!

I'm actually not on any meds....but you stay on yours.
Hopefully, just a couple of more years of you, Trump.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 03:22pm PT
I immagine symmetrical situation:
One American immigrated into Russia 25 years ago , than lost all illusions about Russia and on Russian public forum speaking about how bad Russian climate , terrible Russian's authorities & Russian's roads and Russian's fools. "чемодан вокзал америка!" would be probably common suggestion. Looks like ST forum is very gentle and polite in comparison .

Back to topic since you asked..
My personal opinion:

EDIT: I removed my personal opinion because most probably you are TROLL
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 03:36pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]



Can't ask Paul's father, but we all know what he would say

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:10pm PT
You need to read Tom Wolfeís You Can't Go Home Again.

Iíve spent more time in Russia than 99.9999% of Americans. Iíve spent more time in the USA
than you. The USA is a LOT better. That said it is a LOT worse than Norway, or Sweden.
They donít have fat people. Itís against the law. You can do anything you want there, as long
as it doesnít bother anybody else. Thatís why I want to move there. But they donít want me,
which is fine because I donít want me either. They will let me spend a lot of time there, which
is just about as good because then Iíll have to come back here regularly to see fat people.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
There is general suspicion to people who join this forum starting new tread with first post.
And unfortunately nowadays there is direct associations between words "Russian" and "Troll"
I re-read the tread and now I have doubts that you are living and had ever lived in California.
Since it is climbing forum do you mind to tell us what name of the route you had "bad accident" and how it happen?
pell

climber
Moscow
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
There's still some remains of socialism present

C'mon, it's almost gone. After 1965 reform there is almost no socialism at all.

there's still free healthcare.

Nope.

there're plenty of cheap houses

It depends.

even free to take houses, in rural areas.

Really rural areas.

A lot of land one can lease for dimes, for doing agriculture.

Again, in really rural areas. No electricity, no communications. If you are of a kind "wanna live like in stone ages" this is exactly what are you looking for. Just a friendly reminder. Almost all Russian territory is beyond the minimal agricultural standards.

the big problem, however, is property theft in most places.

Nope.

A lot of other crime and safety concerns, basically a 3rd world country situation.

Nope.

And wonderfully cold climate, cold summers while very small number of ticks in many areas.

It depends.

Basically, Russia is neither a paradise nor a hell. There is nothing special about Russia. As well as there is nothing special about any other country.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
Pell , do you think formerclimber is posting from Olgino?{ Ольгино) every post 100 rubles . 40 posts in 5 hours , about one post every 10 min? And posting is contradict what is really is in Moscow and what is really is in Cali.

Edit :changed typo "posing" to "posting"
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
As many others have mentioned, you seem to have already made your mind up and want affirmation of our decision. Why you would ask others for that I don't kow. What's your passport status? Do you have a US passport, permanent residence or just live here on the sly? Basically, can you return if you split?
pell

climber
Moscow
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
Alexey, yep. Exactly.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 05:16pm PT
As well as there is nothing special about any other country.

Dood! You need to travel more! Somalia is waaay special!
Right up there with Norway on the Special Spectrum!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 3, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
Pell , do you think formerclimber is posing (sic) from Olgino?{ Ольгино) every post 100 rubles . 40 posts in 5 hours

Interesting; that's about $10/hr. Can you describe more? Is that what ATG was doing on the Trump thread?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 3, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
Good luck...I predict disillusionment is in your future.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
Very touching that the comrades spend so much time denigrating the US but as soon as some guy asks a few questions they turn all Love It Or Leave It.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 3, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
they turn all Love It Or Leave It

You know I'm sure, as you are a world traveler, it's REALLY hard to leave for somewhere else. You have to have lots of cash or a job in some critical field, like medicine, and you can't be old. So maybe you might look at it as suggesting we stop the destruction that is taking place and change it for the better. This is no longer the frontier where every person can go out and stake a claim and start a cattle ranch. There are over 300 million people here, it's getting crowded, and there needs to be some sort of plan. This is not some pipe dream libertarian land where each person can do exactly what they want; we all affect the conditions or everyone else, be they environmental, economic, etc. The view that all of us can go somewhere and live anyway we like no longer applies. There are limited resources, water, land. We need to respect our neighbors as they need to respect us and not just f*#k things up to suit ourselves.

So, love it or change it for the better. For 99% of Americans it's really impossible to leave. I'm fortunate as I have US and NZ passports, as does my daughter. It ain't that easy for most.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 3, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
you sure can sell a lot of hot dogs to the upper middle class when you sing that tune...

????
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 3, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
Yes a huge problem in the US is big money corrupting politics and corrupt politicians enacting laws that benefit the wealthy and make it harder for the average person to move up. The dismantling of Obamacare is a great example. It wasnít a perfect law but really they want to kill it because they do t want the rich paying for the poors healthcare.

Income inequality is extreme and increasing.

Gotta disagree on building codes. Yes thereís too much red tape and fees but for the most part itís about building safe structures and not having a cess pool pollute your neighbors well.

There are plenty of places with cheap land where you could build a small cabin and do small agriculture. If youíre in the middle of no where no one will know if you build an unpermitted cabin.

Russia seems much more corrupt than the us though. The govt system is ripe for abuse. And it seems the culture is more corrupt. Iíve had Russian friends who say theyíd never go back because the police and politicians are corrupt and you canít do anything about it. And as you mention theft is a problem.

The us is expensive. Many people retire elsewhere to stretch their dollars.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Aug 3, 2018 - 09:54pm PT
As many discening posters have mentioned, the troll who started this thread, is a Russian Troll.

I sigh for those who think otherwise.
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:01pm PT
LOL. for what purpose? How does this thread serve Russia?

Edit: I could sigh too.. would that help?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:08pm PT
LOL. for what purpose? How does this thread serve Russia?
To sow dissension. Laugh all you want, but sh#t is going on from the Russians and it isn't helpful. When I first read this thread I thought 'okay, WTF' but as I read it and looked at the times between responses doubt crept in. This is just bullshit to aggravate the masses. Vote in November; the count may be altered, but vote.
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:11pm PT
Anyone aggravated by this thread probably needs to do some growing.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:13pm PT
I know a number of Russian expats here in Malibu; except for the higher cost of living, they all vastly prefer living here as opposed to Russia. My guess is if you go back, you will run into a different set of challenges that will make your life just as difficult as it is now. But you may have to try it and find out for yourself. Initially you will feel some exhilaration due to new and fresh circumstances, but that will not last. This is just my hunch, I hope if you do go, I am wrong and things turn out well.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:17pm PT
Winemaker! Per your post!

Winemaker
Sport climber

Yakima, WA

Aug 3, 2018 - 10:08pm PT

LOL. for what purpose? How does this thread serve Russia?

To sow dissension. Laugh all you want, but sh#t is going on from the Russians and it isn't helpful. When I first read this thread I thought 'okay, WTF' but as I read it and looked at the times between responses doubt crept in. This is just bullshit to aggravate the masses. Vote in November; the count may be altered, but vote.


Indeed! The Russian Troll showed up tonight & has 30-plus posts only & all on this thread.





Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:24pm PT
LOL. for what purpose? How does this thread serve Russia?

I am just guessing. Troll's factory have some budget/financing for messing up with Americans. They need to spent money. It does not look that they spending money smart way messing up on supertaco but for them it probably does not mater. they reports number of posts, and no one can measure efficiency of screwing moral of the society
Robb

Social climber
Cat Box
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:05pm PT
You guys should pay attention to all of this.....This is pro-level work.
jeremy_almond

Trad climber
Grants Pass, OR
Aug 4, 2018 - 12:37am PT
Insane. You used California as a gauge to all of America...
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Aug 4, 2018 - 01:40am PT

Svetlana Alexievich Interview: A Human is a Scary Creature

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 4, 2018 - 08:01am PT
Who the hell cares if he is a troll? We all got our moneyís worth, didnít we?
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Aug 4, 2018 - 08:40am PT
My thoughts on this.
First. Sometimes it's good to verbalise and get other people's reactions, in order to confirm what one really feels. Everybody's had a first time writing here. If one doesn't want the forum to die, it's a must with newbies.

Second. I doubt you can go back "home" to Russia and feel at a completely ease. You're now adapted to an American culture, which means you're today both Unitedstatian and Russian, and neither. Not ascribing any certanties about you, I don't know you, but it's a classic which hits immigrants, not feeling completely at home anywhere, in new or old country. There are those who embrace their new country more than born and bred people, in order to dig new roots and escape this situation, don't know if it works.

Fourth. Some of the concerns you mention about the USA is the same as I observed from a distance, with one major condition left out. Probably because I just don't understand it, I do doubt the judicial system of the US, meaning both the police and the court system. From my point of view - do not misunderstand me, I'm convinced there's lots of police officers and judges who are honest, doing their best, have an extremely difficult job, are helpful to the public etc, but as a whole there's rather questionable issues and it doesn't seem as very safe for the ordinary citizen, if something goes wrong. Even if the culture of the USA as a country is more violent than in most of the world, (not talking about individuals) one cannot help wonder about statistics, like the amount of the population in prison.

Third. There are more Englishspeaking countries with cool parts. My suggestion would be Australia or New Zealand. Easygoing safe countries without being overly regulated and with vast wildernesses. Good healthcare (not insurancebased). I read your post and to me it seems as these countries meet your requirements.
(I do have prejudicies against the development of Russia and the former Soviet states, I know this, you take that in account. I would not settle there, ever. No way. )

Last, Reilly, why would you not be welcome here? We generally like Unitedstatians and the cultures are alike enough for you to feel at home. But you know that already. Get your ass over here and settle down. :-)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 4, 2018 - 08:47am PT
Lollie, eftersom Sverige inte behŲver mer gammelgubber. 😔
WBraun

climber
Aug 4, 2018 - 08:54am PT
If you go back to Russia and live in a rural area to grow your own food and
become generally self-sufficient you'll be bomber and the same holds true in the USA.

Stay away from the st00pid big cities.

Live a simple life like you said .....

Trump

climber
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:06am PT
I'm actually not on any meds....but you stay on yours

If you can manage your bipolar without meds, great! My mistake, having some experience caring for my loved onesí bipolar myself. I donít want to see him back in the psych hospital, or worse, and I wish the same for you.

Mental illness can express itself in a lot of different ways, and I hope this new behavior of posting to this forum - your 40 verbose posts to this thread in one day - is normal for you, within the range of your bipolar behaviors, despite your user having never done this before.

I donít remember saying that I was suffering from a mental illness myself, the way that you said that about yourself, so Iím not expecting your reply about my meds was meant as helpful advice to someone who had solicited advice, the way I intended my reply to be for you.

Iíll wish you well again, and Iíll try not to expect the same in return, having learned a little something from your reply.

I expect that youíll see a reflection of yourself wherever you go. Many of we ímericans donít so much like the reflection of ourselves that we see in me, but Iíll try not to blame you for that. Some of us didnít even vote for me.

And some of us donít even look for the worst in other people, regardless of who we voted for.

Nicely done on your kind hearted responses people, troll or not.

I wonder how LEB is doing. Have you reached the Loising point yet? Itís a nice day out here.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:22am PT
My suggestion would be Australia or New Zealand.
Assuming he's not a Russian troll, it ain't easy to get immigrant status to most countries. It's not just a matter of moving there, you have to get the landed immigrant status and that, basically, means having lots of money. Do you have a million dollars? Then immigration is easy. Only have $10,000? Too bad Charlie, you're most likely not welcome. For a dose of reality, go to a Canadian immigrant page and see if you qualify.

http://workpermit.com/immigration/canada/canadian-immigration-points-calculator

Here's info on New Zealand. Note that the points total needed to be considered has been raised from 100 to 160 points.

https://www.new-zealand-immigration.com/immigration-points-guide/

Bottom line, it isn't love it or leave it, it's more 'you're stuck here, change it if you don't like it'. Vote this November.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:26am PT
Damn! I scored a big fat 0 with the Kiwis! WTF? They donít want people
who donít need to work? Thatís messed up! I guess they donít want me
to visit either? Thatís like Kanada. I go up there to spend money and theyíre
all like ďWhatch you doiní here, boi?Ē
i-b-goB

Social climber
Nutty
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:33am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 4, 2018 - 10:15am PT
I'll tell you Reilly, one of the worst things about NZ are the (and I'm not being racist here, just real) Asian drivers. There's a ring set up in Auckland to provide fake driver's licenses to people who have never driven, let alone on the 'wrong' side of the road. They are a terror. American tourists in rental cars are pretty bad too, as they tend to drive on the wrong side and plow head on into other cars.

It's pretty easy to switch left and right when you've had enough experience in both countries, but there's this little niggley thing in the brain that sometimes causes an NZ moment. It happens to me here in the Costco parking lot exit. For some reason I sometimes find myself on the left side and have to jerk my brain back; it takes a moment to actually figure out what's wrong. When my daughter was taking driver's ed in Seattle after living in NZ for a while, she was taking a test with the instructor, turned the corner and proceeded down the left side of the road. She said he freaked out, demanded to know how she could drive so poorly, and she had to explain her 'New Zealand' moment.

And Reilly, they are happy to take your tourist money. I think you can buy your way in if you are retired and have lots of money or buy a business.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 4, 2018 - 10:19am PT
Wino, where I live yer not even safe in yer driveway!

NZ is darn nice but I have a thing about islands, even nice ones. 😽
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 4, 2018 - 10:45am PT
Seems to me it's just a matter of size. Would the island of Australia scare ya?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 4, 2018 - 10:51am PT
Leaving the hotel scares me in Oz!
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 4, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
Werner, using the word bom ber when advising a foreign national will get you flagged by Homeland.

Reilly, where do they send the fat people?
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Aug 4, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
This is SO cute! The TACO has it's own lil' Russian troll. Love it. If he/she/it is even still reading:

Former Climber:

If you were a climber and have been living in the US of A, can you please describe in some detail a climb that you have done in this country? Climbers on this forum have been EVERYWHERE. Surely we can swap tales of vertical daring do? What was your favorite pitch on The Nose? Why? How was the gear? Or maybe Wolfe's Head in Wyoming! A moderate classic. C'mon, Troll-dude. At least waste some time on research to create a little cred.

Oh, and if you can't understand the meaning of "No matter where you go, there you are," you DEFINITELY need to move back to Ruskyland. And you did rather emphatically explain how every state in the union was unacceptable.

I'm with xCon: Don't let the kompromat (компрометирующий материал) door bruise your sweet buttocks on the way out.

BAd
pell

climber
Moscow
Aug 4, 2018 - 01:02pm PT
C'mon guys. Why so serious? Somebody just got too sentimental under influence of a litre or so vodka. It is kinda Russian tradition to get sentimental and shitbuzz around been drunk. With those amazing technologies like Internet and/or Facebook every second Friday night brings alot lulz.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Aug 4, 2018 - 01:04pm PT

Serious is good. Angry is stoopeed...
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Aug 4, 2018 - 02:29pm PT
Good to see the discerning crowd here. Seems like exactly what went on prior to 2016.

Humor is the best antidote.

Kinda like https://www.ted.com/talks/james_veitch_this_is_what_happens_when_you_reply_to_spam_email
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Aug 4, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
^^ there is a stubborn similarity
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 4, 2018 - 04:20pm PT
Мать Россия зовет, волки воют в снежную ночь. Я вернусь домой, когда Супертопо говорит, что пришло время. Благослови мое возвращение, Суперпопо!

Ha ha, nice one Jon. Патрик indeed. Except whiskey.
Trump

climber
Aug 4, 2018 - 10:44pm PT
You guys are old so maybe youíll remember - my favorite Seinfeld episode was the one where each of the main characters at some point says ďthese pretzels are making me thirsty!,Ē each in their own way, as a reflection of their own personality and character.

I always figure itís kind of like that - our reactions and reponses say more about us than about them.

Man, thatís a lot of work to stir the pot for the twelve of us on this forum, isnít it?! It would take me forever to come up with all that sh#t. But itís fun to try to understand.

Best all!
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:01am PT
Have you thought about moving to Portugal or Bulgaria?
Stewart Johnson

Mountain climber
lake forest
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:11am PT
yes.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 08:17am PT
Wino, Суперпопо, indeed!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 5, 2018 - 08:36am PT
Wino, Суперпопо, indeed!

Yeah, yours is more appropriate!
pell

climber
Moscow
Aug 5, 2018 - 09:59am PT
Unbelievable! Finally I am able to read some English like the text has been written in Russian. Oh wait...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 10:08am PT
^^^^ Ясно, нормално Гоогл глупасть, правилно?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 5, 2018 - 10:37am PT
^^^ Наташиа, между нами могут быть шпионы. Используйте план Трамп. Лягушка лает в полночь. Твой, Борис.

Отредактировано для добавления: бесплатное вино для первых двух респондентов.
pell

climber
Moscow
Aug 5, 2018 - 11:35am PT
Встречаемся на заднем дворе у деревянного камня. Пароль старый ó трусы на голове.
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Aug 5, 2018 - 11:40am PT
20 liters of vodka annually

hell the russian keyboard alone would call for a liter a week right there
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 5, 2018 - 11:45am PT
Много потливость с Прусиком тренируется на большом дереве в жаркое солнце. Согласовано. Оба носят трусики на голове; бюстгальтер дополнительно
selfish man

Gym climber
Austin, TX
Aug 5, 2018 - 12:36pm PT
Red this thread this morning while dodging bullets in the crime-infested Domodedovo airport...

Even the beer was about 1 degree too cold.

Alexeyís assessment is likely pretty accurate, I think
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Aug 5, 2018 - 01:52pm PT
This thread is hilarious. Yeah, I guess the Russian males swilling vodka is a real thing. They lose about 15-20 years life expectancy. Anyone ever go down the Russian youtube vortex? All the outrageous car/truck accidents and fights? Sh*tload vodka = good times!

[Click to View YouTube Video]

BAd
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Aug 5, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
20 liters sounds like a lot to me. I'm looking at my 2 liter diet coke bottle and trying to imagine putting down 10 of those full of vodka. Like one a month. Phew. Gives me a hangover just thinking about it.
pell

climber
Moscow
Aug 5, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
why life expectancy plummeted after the Russians gave up the soviet?

Coz people have lost basically everything. Jobs, medical care to name a few. The most important people lost the basis of theirs life style. People have been derailed. Yesterday we were living for a purpose, today we are facing a need to live for money. We had been taught to live for some ideals, to live for better world. Now days we feel abandoned and ruined. If there is nothing to live for there is no reason to live.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 5, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
Oh man, Bad, don't go down that rabbit hole!!!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 5, 2018 - 03:07pm PT
Damn it Bad, you sucked me in!!! To hot outside, so wasting a Sunday, but what the hell. Construction in Russia; maybe there's a reason for building codes.......
[Click to View YouTube Video]
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 5, 2018 - 04:11pm PT

I was in Russia two months ago. Not with a tour and not speaking Russian. I wouldn't recommend it to just anyone. Russia is different. Russians don't smile for example. I looked like an idiot. Buying something as simple as a cup of coffee was an adventure. Finding my hotel was another.

But Санкт-Петербу́рг (Saint Petersburg) is an interesting place just have to be careful. The economic opportunities there seem less than what we have in nyc.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 5, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
900 posts in the last two months xCon. Are you working for the Ruskies too?
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
Russia is not high on the list for the "Happiness Index", but neither is U.S.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/03/these-are-the-happiest-countries-in-the-world/

Finland is #1

People cross country ski everywhere; this keeps oxygen going towards the brain, and you feel happier.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
coincidence that Finland is one of the most secular, non religious countries too?
dgbryan

Mountain climber
Hong Kong
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
I spend a lot of my time on the sofa, watching crap crime dramas,from which I derive most of my my insights into other cultures. Been watching "Bordertown" on Netflix of late & was very puzzled at Finland's No. 1 ranking for happiness. Beginning to wonder if my research methodology might be flawed?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
If youíve ever been in one of Finlandís blue color hoods on a Fri or Sat nite you might wonder how happy the hordes of stupefied drunken zombies are. Iíve not seen the equivalent anywhere else. It is impressive that so many remain upright.
bchains

Trad climber
Bay Area, CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
See ya later dipsh#t.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
Who's conning who?
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Aug 5, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
Humor is the best antidote.

Kinda like

Thanks deuce. Got a few chuckles from that.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Aug 5, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
Your welcome, Winemaker.

I think our Ruskie troll has moved on to greener pastures.

Hoist a Stoli in his honor!

BAdstayaslovovichski
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Aug 8, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
Here's a photo essay of abandoned sites in Russia. I suspect a similar collection could be generated for the good ol' US of A, but I found this interesting. Some of the shots are actually beautiful, although it was pretty shocking to see the abandoned hospital outside Moscow. What a huge project to just drop!

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/08/photos-of-abandoned-russia/566984/

BAd
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 8, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
Wonderous decay....
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Aug 9, 2018 - 06:05am PT
Bad Climber,

Thanks for the link, wondrous indeed. #6 of Fort Alexander aroused my curiosity as to whether it was originated during Peter The Great's reign. It didn't, but it has some interesting history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Alexander_(Saint_Petersburg);




mynameismud

climber
backseat
Aug 9, 2018 - 08:40am PT
Healthcare in the US will get much worse before it gets any better.
Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.
Bargainhunter

climber
Aug 9, 2018 - 03:37pm PT
The OP brings up an interesting question, similar to what many of us have contemplated. Werner, as usual, cuts through the BS and nails it. Troll or not, and perhaps he's in the throws of a manic crisis hence he's no longer responding (being charged up the wazoo in a U$A psych ward), or currently being strong armed by the Russian mafia to give up his retirement account passwords, but political corruption and risk of crime would make many of the advantages in moving to Russia simply unappealing. That being said, I have a friend who's traveling globally and works from his laptop and chooses to live there, though lately he's been spending more time in Kiev than Moscow.

Sounds like the OP wants a simpler life under his own terms. The USA is a great country in which to pursue that, just ignore the common trappings of mainstream Americana...thoughtless incessant consumerism, keeping up with the Jonses, blind commitment to living in increasingly unaffordable cities, towns, etc. US Healthcare costs are out of control, and are my largest annual expense after taxes, so I empathize there. There are many alternatives. A relative who never saved for retirement moved to Portugal and is loving it, especially the specialty healthcare consultations that cost a mere few dollars per visit.

While many scoff at these off-topic posts on the taco, I enjoy them. It's a discussion of life, just like post climb chats around the picnic table with beer in hand in Camp 4...all sorts of topics come up. In the 1980's I was staying at the AAC climber's ranch in the Tetons and climber from Poland gave a slide show on "Political Dissent Art prior to Glasnost" or something like that. It had nothing to do with climbing, and I thought it was cool.
pell

climber
Moscow
Aug 9, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
A bit of seriousness to the thread.

As a person who have moved back and forth and have finally found a peace let me throw a couple words. It is not an environment to make your life better it is you to make a better environment to your life. As we say in Russia ęГде родился, там и пригодилсяĽ which could be translated as "One can make the most use of theirs life at the place they were born." Moving somewhere to make a shift is not a real option. The real option is to make a shift. It is all about your spirit, it is all about your will. There is no paradise on the Earth. The only way to make one's life better is to work harder. Moving somewhere for better life is kinda looser's attitude. Stay where you belong to and work hard to make your life (and life of your descendants) better.
i-b-goB

Social climber
Nutty
Aug 9, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 04:06pm PT
There is no paradise on the Earth

You havenít been to Norway apparently. OK, maybe it isnít paradise but it is Valhalla.
pell

climber
Moscow
Aug 9, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
You havenít been to Norway apparently.

I've been to Kazakhstan. Almaty is kinda the best place to live. Although it is not Siberia where I am originated from. Thus Siberia is the best place in the known Universe.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 9, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
From The Guardian:
Donald Trumpís environmental policies may have caused controversy in the US but the presidentís stance has managed to get him a literal stamp of approval from a Russian mining company.

Uralasbest, one of the worldís largest producers and sellers of asbestos, has taken to adorning pallets of its product with a seal of Trumpís face, along with the words ďApproved by Donald Trump, 45th president of the United StatesĒ.

The move follows the US Environmental Protection Agencyís recent decision not to ban new asbestos products outright. The EPA said it would evaluate new uses of asbestos but environmental groups have criticized the agency for not going further by barring them on public health grounds.
An article in Rolling Stone (hence climbing related because of the 'stone' mention. Maybe the 'rolling' counts too):
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-asbestos-707642/

And finally, an actual not photo shopped picture. MAGA!!!


Better one.

What can you say? Damn.

Edited to add: I suspect that Trump may not be 'science driven'.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOTnSXK_dHM

Things like this might brighten up your day in Russia or maybe we should go to war with them; she would make a wonderful POW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhRAZpmEX2M
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 10:28pm PT
JB, you need to get yer homies onto the rock to stave off the dreaded Canuckian ennui.
Or introduce them to some bored housewives in W Van.
Jim Clipper

climber
Aug 9, 2018 - 11:16pm PT
That pallet may be the most subversive work of art, and maybe the most Soviet thing I've seen in some time.
































Edit: Can I afford to get one shipped to Russ's compound?
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
Aug 9, 2018 - 11:48pm PT
Do they accept applications for American Refugees?
















selfish man

Gym climber
Austin, TX
Aug 10, 2018 - 03:06am PT
Here's some data about life in Russia vs US. Not sure how reliable. The data about crime rates is particularly enlightening

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/14/europe/russia-us-election-compare-intl/index.html
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Aug 10, 2018 - 10:06am PT
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 11, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
pell sounds like the world our immigrant forbears deliberately left behind.

We are an existentialist nation that can do anything (except make Mexico pay for the wall).
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 11, 2018 - 03:41pm PT
Iím boning up on my Roossian for a trip there. One thing Iím willing to bet on is that the Roosky Border officers will be more welcoming than the Kanadiansí my last three trips there, but knott nearly as welcoming as that HAWT Swedish Immigration officer in June! OMG!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 11, 2018 - 03:49pm PT


Reilly,
Mountain climber, The Other Monrovia- CA


. . . . . will be more welcoming than the Kanadiansí my last three trips there, but knott nearly as welcoming as that HAWT Swedish Immigration officer in June! OMG!
Reilly-



Right , those Sweet-dishes i'ma-imagining grating on ya'- out of boredom at the border girls, um I mean officers?


. . . . .




I gnow, They sure have that reach around down pat
















? Pat down down pat.











formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 24, 2018 - 10:51pm PT
I haven't been reading the replies as I haven't been well.... reading them now, some good humor, and thanks for good wishes.

By the way, I'm not "he" but "she"; this makes the whole relocation to rural Russia more problematic (more dangerous, as crime is very high in rural Russia and the country is not women-friendly in general, but especially in rural areas, where there's lawlessness and the mentality like in the 19th century, at best). I'm still debating it, but it looks like Russia is the way to go.

I have only a modest amount of about 200K saved from past employment, when I had a good patch. Sure, I could buy a house in the US for around 100K, but having asthma and other problems... not sure how I can even support myself here, and here money can run out very fast. Can't breath well unless I'm in a very clean air....good luck finding that in any office now, or any other workplace, for that matter, stores, warehouses: everything is full of chemicals. World had changed. There used to be wood, brick, plaster, simple construction materials, unscented soap and now it's all chemical stuff, plus air fresheners and all the scented personal care products....It's a problem for me to go buy something in a clothing store, because of these fumes, I start choking. Can't use laundromat or walk near one, or wear anything that been there. I'm no good for anything here anymore. Not sure I can bet on finding remote work: heard it's been increasingly difficult in the US, despite expectations that with housing crisis happening companies should hire more to work from home.

People who say to go to places like Bulgaria or Spain (I don't even mention NZ or Australia)... same issue with expenses as in the US. Buying housing will eat up majority of the savings and then be stuck with a house to pay high taxes on and high maintenance expenses, eating into the savings. And this is in a country where you don't speak the language and don't know customs. Getting a residency permit is also expensive/hard in all safe countries now. Times of residency for 50K real estate are long gone... now it's more like 500K investment required. If I had 500K, I could live happily in the US.

In Russia, one can at least buy a house with decent lot for 10K and grow food... Russia, though, is about to enter severe economic crisis, I expect crime rate to jump, it's no picnic there and will be worse. Putin and Co have completely lost it, I believe. Also, people in villages are very hostile to newcomers/outsiders....they can do bad things and they do them all the time. Things like arsons, killing your animals.

But earlier, I've been living out of the vehicle here, done this for a long time.....and homelessness is my big fear, along with being hit by insane medical bills. It's like running on some crazy treadmill. Is it worth it? I worked like a dog at my last job, stress killing what's left of my health and I'm nowhere now... just lucky not sleeping in a car again. It wears you down not having stable housing and I haven't had one in 22 years, own shed or a big tent seems like heaven now, but here it's illegal to live in such.
Having 200K with zero safety net like family, you can't really do much here in term of simple living somewhere rural and growing food, etc. (may be I'm wrong but this is the math I've done)
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 24, 2018 - 11:07pm PT
Male life expectancy in Russia is 64 years, according to the Guardian newspaper. A quarter of males die before reaching age 55

Pension age just hiked to 65 for men there, without any buffer period, really, which is de facto economic default and cancellation of pensions/government obligation to provide them to those who had been paying into the system for decades.
John M

climber
Sep 24, 2018 - 11:07pm PT
Have you seen this article? Its from 2005, so I have no idea what is going on there now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/realestate/in-one-arizona-community-an-oasis-in-a-toxic-world.html

Found a newer article from 2016. I knew that I had seen something more recent.

https://www.mnn.com/health/allergies/stories/residents-Arizona-community-Snowflake-allergic-modern-life

I hope that you find an answer.


https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Snowflake-AZ/pmf,pf_pt/2098171642_zpid/47736_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/34.839167,-109.629136,34.296366,-110.576706_rect/9_zm/
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 24, 2018 - 11:19pm PT
Thanks. I had heard about Snowflake/that community. The problem with living this way and same with just buying a lot and living in gutted Airstream in it while hiding from the county and keeping taxes low: technically, this is not a legal dwelling. People live without having a mailbox, I think. So, the county can come after you any time they want and chase you out, they had been getting smart about these things lately, using satellite photos and drones. Then, all or most of the invested money will be lost as selling "bare land" is difficult everywhere. I know that in a lot places people live in RVs, yurts, aluminum hangars, but these aren't ever permitted as permanent dwellings. What if the counties get greedy and start enforcing? Also, not sure if they got water sources there, water probably is getting trucked in, this is also a risk.

Alaska got no building codes... but land prices there are crazy high now.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 24, 2018 - 11:46pm PT
You need to read Tom Wolfeís You Can't Go Home Again.

Yes, would like to read it. I had experienced it (high alienation) during earlier visit back to Moscow, and I know I'd feel like a stranger and a foreigner in Russia, and a lot of things there are now shocking and unacceptable for me (but I think some of this can kind of go away in about a year after a break-in period).

Russia seems much more corrupt than the us though. The govt system is ripe for abuse. And it seems the culture is more corrupt. Iíve had Russian friends who say theyíd never go back because the police and politicians are corrupt and you canít do anything about it. And as you mention theft is a problem.†
It's infinitely more corrupt. It goes far beyond simple "corruption". In earlier years, police in my home region had been kidnapping and killing lonely citizens (elderly, drunks, disabled, easy prey for them) to take over their properties (city flats, where real estate went up in price). They'd forge signatures on selling agreements and corrupt notaries would notarize them. Just one of the 100s of examples I could mention. And crime....yes, just heard about yet another mail delivery person being killed (over mail, trying to get hold of pensions being delivered) in the region where I was planning to go to....I got to go to another region.

Gotta disagree on building codes. Yes thereís too much red tape and fees but for the most part itís about building safe structures and not having a cess pool pollute your neighbors well.†
Protecting environment from runoff is one thing, I can agree with this. Making the building safe....well I guess one could bring some arguments here too. But not allowing people to live in RV, hangar/shed (which would be certified for snow load and proper septic would be put in) or a tent for more than 6 months and requiring to build a huge, from my standpoint, structure (a lot of places have minimum square footage requirements) is just pure unadulterated greed. Regarding safety: modern building materials are not safe, they're quite toxic, so, again, this is really about greed. It's possible to permit a toxic manufactured home without any local building inspections, and not possible to live in a small structure made of natural wood built just like people had successfully done for centuries.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 25, 2018 - 06:16am PT
Zoning and building regs are vastly different from state to state and town to town in the US...

I bet with a little research you could find a rural place in this country to suit your needs.

Build a tiny structure to code with whatever materials you'd like.

Detroit has some really, really cheap "clean" lots... :)

I think you mentioned you were bipolar... if that's true then that's not going to change with your address. Something to think about.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 10:19pm PT
Zoning and building regs are vastly different from state to state and town to town in the US...

I bet with a little research you could find a rural place in this country to suit your needs.

Build a tiny structure to code with whatever materials you'd like.

Detroit has some really, really cheap "clean" lots... :)

I think you mentioned you were bipolar... if that's true then that's not going to change with your address. Something to think about.

I've been doing such research for a few years already. There're almost no areas left that officially allow anything other than standard house with standard features; tiny houses aren't allowed. The only ones really are Alaska, and a bit of rural Wyoming and Missouri, and some of Montana. Land prices for anything accessible year-round and livable are very high in all: Alaska, WY and Montana. In WY and Montana getting a well alone is a gamble and can run 2000 ft. Missouri has only patches where there're "no codes". In the South, people do live in shacks in a few places, but it's in "bad areas"/ meth, high theft...and these are no legal dwellings, also immigrants not welcome. (I had lived in the Deep South too). County enforcement can be selective .... I'd need wired electricity, for work and to run heater, off the grid won't support it without investing $$$ in solar, so another limiting factor. It's much easier to do this off the grid. I've seen older locals living in things like RVs on their land...but I was told straight, "do you really think they (the county) would allow YOU to do that, if you moved here?".

Not sure what you mean by "not going to change with your address". In the US, it's rampant homelessness right now, for a reason, I've seen towns where camps are all over the place right behind the fences of "nice houses"; in Russia one can at least have a roof over their head and run little agriculture without breaking the bank. There're even abandoned log houses and whole villages of them.... And places like Detroit are not safe. I'm looking for rural ambiance and don't live in cities.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 11:13pm PT

The view that all of us can go somewhere and live anyway we like no longer applies. There are limited resources, water, land. We need to respect our neighbors as they need to respect us and not just f*#k things up to suit ourselves.

So, love it or change it for the better. For 99% of Americans it's really impossible to leave. I'm fortunate as I have US and NZ passports, as does my daughter. It ain't that easy for most.

That's right, about 99% of Americans wouldn't be able to leave if they wanted to...I only know of Georgia (country) that allows Americans to stay visa-free for 1 year, everywhere else is a shorter stay. The countries with point systems like Canada: good luck getting in after age 40... otherwise it's 500K investor visas, and most Americans don't have anything close to this cash. Getting residence permits is tough these days. I'm pretty lucky to have second citizenship and no debt.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 11:23pm PT
Uh, you can stay in most civilized countries if you gots the coin. With most you only have to get yer passport stamped elsewhere every 6 months, or declare yerself as a refugee. NBD
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 11:24pm PT
Not sure that after 22 years I had missed some aspect....unless some major political changes are going to happen? And I don't plan to invest anything other than what I'm ready to lose/leave behind in Russian real estate, so staying mobile. I even have a plan on how to leave if they shut all borders.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 11:27pm PT
Uh, you can stay in most civilized countries if you gots the coin. With most you only have to get yer passport stamped elsewhere every 6 months. NBD

Yeah, the coin in the lines of 500K+ USD.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 11:30pm PT
I'm not going to move any money over 10K at a time into Russia....banking system is very unstable and yes, there's mob, including in the banks themselves. Have to keep very low profile living rurally.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 26, 2018 - 11:33pm PT
former, if youíre willing to share an apartment I bet you can easily live in much of Europe,
even Scandihoovia, on $700 per week. You wouldnít get much clubbing in but you could
become a better cook.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 27, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
No, I'm not willing to "share an apartment"... I'm not 20 and goats and chickens won't fit in, I'm afraid. Clubbing, better cook? :) Srsly?? I'm well over 40 and cook my entire life. Haven't ever driven a new car, eat in a restaurant about once in 10 years, gone 10 years without seeing doctor before (for lack of insurance)...

Without house/land maintenance part (but including home insurance and tax), I need $1300/month to live comfortably (in the US), with a paid-off house. House repairs part depends, really. I think can get away with $200/month, if averaged over years, for a small house.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 27, 2018 - 07:23pm PT
If you can live comfortably in the US on $1,300 a month you have a potentially lucrative career in the making telling people how to do it.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 28, 2018 - 11:36am PT
I think you mentioned you were bipolar... if that's true then that's not going to change with your address. Something to think about.

It's troubling that you can't figure out what the above means.

It means you can move as much as you want, as far as you want; you will still have the same brain with all the same problems, you will still be bipolar, with all the problems that carries. You can't outrun it. It doesn't get filtered out by a visa or a border. A different culture exposure doesn't fix it.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 28, 2018 - 12:04pm PT
...And places like Detroit are not safe....

I would wager the "empty villages" and abandoned areas of Russia are likely not 'safe' either.

Sounds like you want rural/frontier living but with modern conveniences like grid electricity, high speed Internet access and 'safety'... for cheap.

If you find it, please let me know where. Promise I won't tell!

I didn't mean the bipolar thing as a jab... not at all... I just meant that if you have a serious mental condition, uprooting yourself to a foreign place with no social ties probably isn't the best idea.

What about saving up for an extended off-the-grid 'vacation'? True isolation... tent, boots, pack. A month or two of hiking might do some good. There are plenty of places you can still get lost for that amount of time.





Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 12:12pm PT
Sounds like you want rural/frontier living but with modern conveniences like grid electricity, high speed Internet access and 'safety'... for cheap.

Falkland Islands! Zero crime and yer protected by Her Majestyís Navy!
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Sep 28, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
Former Climber - try Canada. But not in the cities.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 28, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
Come on Wayne...Sudbury is pretty sweet, and then there is Medicine Hat!
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Sep 28, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
Try northern California:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&biw=1600&bih=837&ei=b5CuW9mhCe7n5gKqiprIBQ&q=land+for+sale+in+northern+california+by+owner&oq=land+for+sale+in+northern+california+by+owner&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0..5410...0.0..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.igMxQCOXTZU

40 acres by Mt Shasta:

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/CA/pmf,pf_pt/2090586041_zpid/9_rid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/43.123039,-119.610901,40.096983,-124.532776_rect/7_zm/
Mei

Trad climber
mxi2000.net
Sep 28, 2018 - 03:59pm PT
Interesting. formerclimber, I scanned your replies quickly and was most shocked to find out that you are a "she" not "he". I definitely have a certain gender stereotype in my mind and would have never guessed that you are a woman. Without getting into details (and risking being politically incorrect), let me just say you have my respect for your vision.

Talk about your vision...

 a rural house with 2 acres of land
 I'd like to live simple life, do small farming, few goats and birds, big vegetable gardens, things to make me food-independent.
 wild tall growing grasses, no manicured lawns, wildflowers growing tall everywhere, beautiful nature mess,
I don't mean to cherrypick, but those are a few things that stood out in my mind. Sorry if you've mentioned this already that I missed, but have you ever lived your vision anywhere?

In my observation, usually being food-independent takes a village, or at the minimum, a family. There is a reason why rural developing regions prefer having boys because living a food-independent life (for many, not by choice) demands strong and ample labor.

Wild tall growing grasses need attention as well because they can quickly become fire hazard in a dry season.

The upkeeping of a house, esp. a rural house, and acreage where labor help is scarce, can sometimes be overwhelming, esp. for a lone woman. (Yeah, I'm no feminist.)

I don't mean to be a nay-sayer. I just wonder if you are already experienced with the vision you had in mind for your future, in which you are destined to grow older.

It's not about me, but I will give you an example. Before I moved to the house (in a fairly remote area skirting the SF Bay Area), I had the romantic vision of me working in the big vegetable garden and looking out the yard with a view of redwood trees. Well, it didn't take long for me to find out that all plants die on me, and more importantly, I actually have little interest in gardening. The remoteness adds 45 minutes one way to everything I do -- it sucks to always have to do an extra minimum 45 minute drive after I drop off everyone after a long climbing trip before I can even reach the comfort of home. While I promised my cats that I'll see them through in this cat heaven, I do plan to move back to a tiny apartment (I don't need much either) that is close to my activities (work, climbing, dancing) afterwards. (Edit: No, not in a big city. Never SF for sure.)

Until you've lived it, a vision remains a vision and reality can be very different.

One last thing, you mentioned you were bipolar. Could there be any chance that you also had/have depression? (No need to answer me/here.) One's mental state can also affect his/her outlook on life too, something I try to self-examine frequently.

Oh, maybe just one more thing. All studies have pointed out that social isolation is not healthy for an aging mind (think dementia and Alzheimer, etc). Loners beware, maybe?
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Ecuador&country2=United+States

Ecuador is an increasingly popular choice for American ex-pats. You sure you want to tackle the cold winters in Russia? Especially if you are bi-polar, winter cabin fever will make it worse. As you get older, the cold is harder to take.
SilverSnurfer

Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
Sep 28, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
//And if I had a boat
I'd go out on the ocean
And if I had a pony
I'd ride him on my boat
And we could all together
Go out on the ocean
I said me upon my pony on my boat//

I know a fair number of people who live much closer to the land and natural rhythms in rural Alaska-some inland, some coastal. All of these ways of living are what we make of them.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 08:18pm PT
Ecuador is an increasingly popular choice for American ex-pats. You sure you want to tackle the cold winters in Russia? Especially if you are bi-polar, winter cabin fever will make it worse. As you get older, the cold is harder to take.

I gave South America a thought before.... several things:
 I don't speak any Spanish, would need to learn yet another new language....I could probably learn Czech because it's close to Russian, but Spanish is a whole different story...English was painful enough.

 safety....Equador is probably isn't more dangerous than Russia (Russia does have very high murder rate), but it's a big plus if you can visually blend with the locals, speak the language like a native and are able to instantly catch on the signs of GFO. If you live on the cheap, you'll live like the locals and deal with local crime full on. And if you want guarded, safe life like in a gated community, etc, you'll have to pay something like US pricing for everything, I think.... I recall a Russian American who bought a villa in Belize for 200K....next thing local mafia showed up and told to pay another 100K "for protection"....or else.

 treatment of women isn't the best (well-known catcalling problems, etc).

 headache of getting a residency permit
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 08:25pm PT
Try northern California:
...

40 acres by Mt Shasta:
..

Anything around Mt Shasta is well outside my price range :)) I'm very familiar with Mt Shasta and entire North Cal region real estate, had stayed in Siskiyou, Butte, Trinity counties before... Everything, even around Alturas area, is crazy expensive now. Anything not too expensive: they won't let you do what you want on the lot, build McMansion or camp < 6 months, no farm animals, all got CC&R. And water is deep....well alone can run 30K. Lots are expensive, their development is extra pricy too because the area is full of rich SF folks willing to pay.... And anywhere north of Mt Shasta: a person with asthma can't live there, long wildfire smoke events. They don't put out the fires in Klamath forests, let them burn till the fall when rains put them out.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 08:33pm PT
Former Climber - try Canada. But not in the cities.

Good luck getting a permit to live in Canada now if you're over 40 and not a rich enterpreneur...for that matter even over 30 is very hard now. And I mean in any province. They overhauled point system in 2015, it got worse.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 08:36pm PT
I would wager the "empty villages" and abandoned areas of Russia are likely not 'safe' either.

That's what I would think...but I know one woman who lives there and swears otherwise. Of course, at least one big vicious dog is a requirement...


Sounds like you want rural/frontier living but with modern conveniences like grid electricity, high speed Internet access and 'safety'... for cheap.

If you find it, please let me know where. Promise I won't tell!
In Russia, electricity is everywhere pretty much, in all kinds of remote villages, and service is good. Internet situation isn't that good, but one can get satellite. A lot of wireless coverage too.

I didn't mean the bipolar thing as a jab... not at all... I just meant that if you have a serious mental condition, uprooting yourself to a foreign place with no social ties probably isn't the best idea.

Oh I'd lived 22 years of nomadic lifestyle, always uprooted and "homeless", there's nothing new to me here.

What about saving up for an extended off-the-grid 'vacation'? True isolation... tent, boots, pack. A month or two of hiking might do some good. There are plenty of places you can still get lost for that amount of time.
Did a lot of that, I lived years out of the car and a tent :)) Need to make the remoteness part permanent, plus the dwelling.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 08:41pm PT
It's troubling that you can't figure out what the above means.

It means you can move as much as you want, as far as you want; you will still have the same brain with all the same problems, you will still be bipolar, with all the problems that carries. You can't outrun it. It doesn't get filtered out by a visa or a border. A different culture exposure doesn't fix it.

Oh I assure you I can figure out what bipolar means, but it's troubling people can't figure out the difference between "bipolar" and "the cost of living per country". These are not related concepts. Oh, even assuming someone hoped to leave medical problems behind somehow (which wasn't stated anywhere, this is solely your conjecture)....at least they'd leave the cost of US medical care behind.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 09:02pm PT
Interesting. formerclimber, I scanned your replies quickly and was most shocked to find out that you are a "she" not "he". I definitely have a certain gender stereotype in my mind and would have never guessed that you are a woman. Without getting into details (and risking being politically incorrect), let me just say you have my respect for your vision.
LOL. I've been an engineer in top US firm too, until recently....certainly took to go against the grain in the male dominated industry. If only job interviews and work had been anonymous, like the the message board....oh well.

Talk about your vision...

a rural house with 2 acres of land
I'd like to live simple life, do small farming, few goats and birds, big vegetable gardens, things to make me food-independent.
wild tall growing grasses, no manicured lawns, wildflowers growing tall everywhere, beautiful nature mess,
I don't mean to cherrypick, but those are a few things that stood out in my mind. Sorry if you've mentioned this already that I missed, but have you ever lived your vision anywhere?

Yep, that's pretty much Russian country side....I grew up near a village and sometimes lived off the forest and vegetable garden, during hungry times.
The only downside of having a small farm is being dead-tied to the place. Can't leave and travel....animals need to be fed, garden need to be taken care of (and guarded!)...plus, in Russia house is likely to get robbed if left alone empty....

In my observation, usually being food-independent takes a village, or at the minimum, a family. There is a reason why rural developing regions prefer having boys because living a food-independent life (for many, not by choice) demands strong and ample labor.


Yes and no....In Russia, many people are almost fully food-independent on their very small plots of land, just takes low demands. And often they got no money for anything else! $150-$200 pension is common sole income...gets spent on stuff like firewood and home repairs. Especially in the Southern region with rich soils and 2 harvests per year. They do buy flour, rice, millet, sugar somewhere else, though. I personally don't expect (or want) to be fully food independent and grow all own own "cocoa, tea, all fruit, nuts, flour", but stuff like milk products, eggs, poultry, honey, vegetables, berries and fruit can be done on your own.

Wild tall growing grasses need attention as well because they can quickly become fire hazard in a dry season.

Oh yes, painful topic...in Russia nobody cares and a lot of houses do burn down. People practice "burn down" grass elimination method (outside villages). They start 2 lines of fire and make them meet, burning/clearning all in-between (this is now illegal, but they still do it) However, not many dry regions there....in some places people literally harvest potatoes from the boats, grass fire isn't too lilkely there...Nobody bothers to cut grass...goats and cows eat a lot of though.

The upkeeping of a house, esp. a rural house, and acreage where labor help is scarce, can sometimes be overwhelming, esp. for a lone woman. (Yeah, I'm no feminist.)
Oh, I'm a feminist, not sure why not be one. In Russia, I do know women who do this alone. In fact, some people in Russia (pension age) do this because this is the only way to have something to eat! And those who are not alone mostly got fist-fighting drunks for a husband in rural areas, hahaha, not much use, expect in terms of knowing to find where vodka is! I live my whole life alone and is dead set in my ways, especially" in my old age". :)

I did own rural properties in the US in the past. It's a wonderful but pricey thing here. You mentioned about you going back to a small apartment, SF....I can't even drive into big cities and I go nuts in any kind of apartment or city locations, one reason why I started to live out of the car many years ago and just lived in National Parks and Forests, hate cities they make me sick. Not sure how people handle all the crowds, cars, smog and noise...

One last thing, you mentioned you were bipolar. Could there be any chance that you also had/have depression? (No need to answer me/here.) One's mental state can also affect his/her outlook on life too, something I try to self-examine frequently.

Of course I do have depression, and it doesn't respond to any medications, neither I can tolerate side effects from them. I have it all my life. The only thing that really works for depression is living in a tent, the colder the better. I love snow camping. In the past, I'd rent 3K/month houses on Airbnb and just sleep in a tent in the backyard, when I needed internet/office for remote work....


Oh, maybe just one more thing. All studies have pointed out that social isolation is not healthy for an aging mind (think dementia and Alzheimer, etc). Loners beware, maybe?
Yes, it's not healthy, but I think it's on case by case basis....I'm a hermit. I do study a lot of stuff all the time, this should protect from Alzheimers. But I think hermits are well equipped to live until 100 years old if they live out there in clean nature and are forced to always tinker with something on their own, forced to get up and move around. Worst thing is lack of motion and lack of mental stiumation.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 09:26pm PT
My old college roommate teaches at a small university in the midwestern corn belt located in a smallish town of 15,000 people surrounded by endless agriculture. You can buy a decent house there for $25k, a nice place for $70k, and a really, really nice place for $150k. Most of the homes on the market there are under $130k, I'd guess the median home price is $70k. An old four-square style two-story farm house on a few acres five miles out of the city would be very cheap there.

It's a college town, so there is culture and amenities, of course good internet due to the Univ, it's a reasonable 1hr drive to larger cities with almost anything you would ever need and you can be in really big cities within 3hrs if you need an international airport or something of that nature. Obviously the climate and conditions are prime for agriculture, growing food would be easy enough. It gets hot in the summer for a month or so, like almost everywhere else in the US, but has cold winters, plenty of water, and nobody is going to care if you have some animals and a garden - unless your house was "in town" you would stick out more if you didn't have animals and grow crops.

There are many similar towns in this area of the country, all across Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri. They are not exciting places if you are seeking "mountain sports", but there are ample outdoor recreation opportunities, the towns are "lively" with good food, music, pubs and that sort of thing, and it's very cheap and easy living with low crime.

Yes, I've know of quiet small towns with 70K decent houses and very close to National Forests (not in CA, of course!)....I've been there and done that, owned a house in a peaceful small town. Not my cup of tea. People are too close to each other, I can't handle this. Too much noise, dogs bark too close, heavy air pollution from stoves (and they burn trash in them too) almost year round, no privacy (and in many places people in such towns are actually opposed to any fences, they want their "view" and their kids/dogs to run through your back yard, talking about much of Midwest, exactly where it's cheaper!!), nosy neibours...and obsession with Roundup toxic lawns and insane 2 inch grass that looks atrocious. No goats allowed, etc.
I like Minnesota for example...some neat towns in the Northeastern part, almost inside National Forests, but the inch-high lawns, the lack of fences in town...no privacy. If you move in and put up a fence...they'll be mad at you, they're mad even at locals for the same thing. And any lot in-town probably had tons of herbicide poured all over, kind of scary to grow veggies...

I do want to go and look at Northern Arkansas homes on 2-5+ acre lots... pretty cheap there, National Forest nearby, all green and hilly. They did trash a lot of cheap Eastern US parts by fracking now, unfortunately....got to look on county-by-county basis, away from any shale. I thought of WV earlier, some OK cheaper homes on 5 acres...but good luck with all the fracking and pipelines. You buy today, tomorrow wake up next to a compressor station.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 09:39pm PT
There are rural parts of Washington with very reasonable real estate and in Eastern Washington the sun actually shines! Our very own Wayno lives there. It is waaaay better than the Midwest.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
There are rural parts of Washington with very reasonable real estate and in Eastern Washington the sun actually shines! Our very own Wayno lives there. It is waaaay better than the Midwest.

I know Eastern WA pretty well too....talking about Pend'O'Reille county and Colville area. Stunningly beautiful and perfect climate in my book, but these parts are quite expensive now too...way outside my range. A fixer house on 5 acres, on grid with fiber internet and questionable well and septic, will be well over 100K, same for small towns. A lot of old RVs are listed as homes on MLS...Or did you mean Southeastern WA? (not familiar in detail but very barren landscapes and area of intensive agriculture with a lot of pesticide pollution)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
A friend just sold her 5 acres with a nice big house 5 miles from Tonasket for $200K,
pretty damn cheap if you ask me. $20K per acre is pretty standard anywhere decent.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
One bad thing about situation Russia is that during the last 8 years, a lot of totalitarian laws had been adopted (or started to get enforced).... I was there 8 years ago and it was more or less a free country, albeit high crime; it's amazing how freedoms can be stripped off in such a short time and no one is objecting.

Lots of unreasonable laws now, such as anyone with even a very small debt that's not in good standing....isn't allowed to leave the country. And one can easily become indebted through some numerous crooks or very rampant identity theft.
To get a driver's license one has to have all kinds of medical evaluations, a drug test, psychiatric evaluation, not to mention whole 3 months of busy "driving school". If you move, you have to fly to a place where you moved from and order paperwork/records from there in person.
To get a cellphone need to present a passport, same to get any internet connection, so that any activity is trackable by the government. People get arrested for "likes" and reposts in social networks...for stuff like a joke about religion or political meme, get thrown in jail, all bank accounts frozen and then get thrown in psych hospital for lengthy sanity "evaluation". While violence had been decriminalized...not really a crime anymore if you hit someone and there's no lasting damage.
A lot of stuff like that and it's been getting crazier by the year. I'll definitely give this move a heavy thought...
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 10:16pm PT
A friend just sold her 5 acres with a nice big house 5 miles from Tonasket for $200K,
pretty damn cheap if you ask me. $20K per acre is pretty standard anywhere decent.

Yeah, that's about my whole savings...unaffordable for me. As to home size: most homes on US market are very large, extremely hard to find something cabin-sized and having water/septic and good for year-round occupation, at the same time. In the Eastern states, a home on 5 acres can go for something like 80K even now, I think...I see them on MLS, but it's hard to tell what the defects might be.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 10:25pm PT
Так много глупость там час.
Mei

Trad climber
mxi2000.net
Sep 28, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
Thanks for taking the time to reply and I appreciate your openness.

The only downside of having a small farm is being dead-tied to the place.
In a sense, you become a slave to your "place." Will you be happy that way?

Oh, I'm a feminist, not sure why not be one.
My gut feel tells me that you are a genuine one. You asked a good question and I can only speak for myself. I know I can never be a feminist without pretense because I hire a yard helper (never met a woman on that "job" market) to do heavy lifting yard work for me, and because I normally hoped, and sometimes asked, my male climbing partner to carry a little more weight than me in his pack so I can keep up on the hike, and so on.

In Russia, I do know women who do this alone. In fact, some people in Russia (pension age) do this because this is the only way to have something to eat! And those who are not alone mostly got fist-fighting drunks for a husband in rural areas, hahaha, not much use, expect in terms of knowing to find where vodka i
By the sound of it, none of these women were happy, but happiness might not be what you were after?

Worst thing is lack of motion and lack of mental stimulation.
Yeah, that's the typical depression for ya. So, you don't have that problem? Wait...

Of course I do have depression, and it doesn't respond to any medications, neither I can tolerate side effects from them. I have it all my life.
That's what I suspected from first time reading your posts. There are some strong anecdotes from individuals about an unconventional way of beating depression. Here are two quite respectable/credible individuals sharing their own experience. Posting in case you are willing to put in a last ditch effort.
Joe Rogan Experience #1139 - Jordan Peterson (Here is the full interview)
Joe Rogan Experience #1164 - Mikhaila Peterson

I'll definitely give this move a heavy thought...
Didn't know your thoughts so far have been light. I need to fix my scale.

In all seriousness, you are one unique lady. Best of luck to you!


Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 28, 2018 - 10:44pm PT
You have convinced me. There is no place in America for you, nor any country in the world outside Mother Russia.
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Sep 28, 2018 - 11:05pm PT
Really? Hasn't this been beaten to death already?
John M

climber
Sep 28, 2018 - 11:08pm PT

I thought that I would summarize what I understand about your current situation. If you feel like it, please correct anything that I summarize.

So this is what I understand about you. I hope that I am not being too intrusive in listing it all together. ( If you want me to delete, then I will ).

You deal with being Bi-polar.
You had an accident from which you have not fully recovered. (Climbing related? )
You have fairly severe sensitivities to chemicals.

You are not sure if you can work again or how much you will be able to work. ( more details about that would help. Do you genuinely believe that you might not be able to work or is your concern/fear in part driven by the nature of being bipolar. Sincere question and I do not mean to be harsh. )

You have done some type of remote work online which can be lucrative if you are able to work and can get it. Would this mean that you would be eligible for social security at some point, and could you get disability now? I don't know how immigrant status works.

You are a female over 45. Care to share your actual age? That would help in figuring out your retirement angles. How close you might be to something like social security and medicare.

You are worried about future and current healthcare costs as you age.

You prefer cold to heat. You grew up in rural russia in the cold cold. ( I believe ) You do not tolerate heat well.

You have something north of 200 k in savings.

You want a rural property on which you can live simply by growing food and having animals, but also with access to electricity and internet of some sort.

You prefer rural because noise is an issue for you and privacy, plus you want to grow food and have animals like chickens. I believe in part you are seeking that because of cost, but also to help you with your health. Less pesticides, less chemical exposure.

Edit: to add. you don't really want to move back to Russia, but you feel like your financial and health situation are forcing you to.

Is this mostly accurate? I'm not certain that I have any advice for you, it just helps me to think about a problem if I have it listed.


ECF

Big Wall climber
Ridgway CO
Sep 29, 2018 - 03:51am PT
It doesnít matter where she goes, the negativity will follow.
Every post is ďI canítĒ, ď not allowedĒ, too this or that... all negative.
When everything good is defined by what it is not, you are focusing on the negatives.

Take a trip to Russia, I guarantee it is not how you remember it.
John M

climber
Sep 29, 2018 - 07:54am PT
ECF... try putting yourself in her shoes. Can you do that? Do you know what its like to have chronic health issues that can have very poor solutions and sometimes no solution? Do you know what its like to not know if you can ever work again and to be faced with trying to figure out how you will survive? Can you get there? Do you now what it is like in this country to live in poverty? She isn't there yet, but if her health problems are severe she isn't that far from it. Certainly not in this country. Do you have any idea how far 200 k will go if her health problems worsen in any way? Even with great insurance, my health care bills over my life have left me in poverty. Its certainly a better kind of poverty then many first world countries. I have a roof over my head and food to eat and I have a computer through which I get internet off a neighbors service. But without help from my parents I would have been homeless, and I am one major car problem away from not having a vehicle. Even a minor problem can be difficult.

Have you read the advice people have given her on this forum? For as smart as people are on this forum, its as though they are talking about a different planet. Which part of not working right now and not certain if she can work again did people not understand? Do they realize that if you aren't working, you can't immigrate to most countries? She hopes to be able to work, but that doesn't cut it with most countries? If she isn't able to work, how does she afford a property over 50 k, which is what most people here suggested, and still keep herself going? My own suggestion was ignorant because I didn't look into how she would get water to the property. It didn't have a well and doesn't appear to have city water, so how would she grow food? Truck in water? Good grief. That would be expensive. So she negated my advice. Should I then see her has negative? Or was it simply that I didn't look hard enough?

And which part of medical costs in America don't people seem to understand? Its hugely expensive here if you have chronic issues. There are many treatments that I would have tried if I could have afforded them. She is likely facing the same thing, and when you have health problems that are intractable, then you don't know when the costs will end. Who would help her here in America? Would you?

My god man. To focus on the fact that she has researched this through and through and hasn't found a good answer and to say that that is her being negative when the solutions that have been offered seem to not even remotely understand her problem is just plain ignorant and frankly heartless.

Thats what I have found in America. People are just plain clueless about what it costs to deal with chronic health issues and how difficult it is to get help in America. Good grief man, they are talking about doing away with the protections that were recently won to help people with pre existing conditions have health insurance. If they do that she won't be able to afford health insurance in America. Do you have ANY idea what that means? Can you imagine her situation and trying to figure out how to get health care if you don't have health insurance because she gets priced out of it if the protections against pre existing conditions are removed. She could easily blow through her money and then still have health problems. Do you understand that? Do you understand just how scary that is?

Your attitude is one of someone who hasn't been there and doesn't understand and views the world as a pollyanna. America is great so whats her problem seem to be many peoples attitude. Good grief. I love America, but sometimes her people just seem to be clueless and yet they act as though they have it all figured out and anyone who nay says it is just being negative. Try putting yourself in her shoes.

I apologize if you have been there, but you don't say that you have, so its hard to know. Have you faced chronic health issues that have lasted longer then 20 years?
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Sep 29, 2018 - 09:26am PT
$30,000 1200 sq ft house swimming pool!

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/CA/pmf,pf_pt/234674777_zpid/9_rid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/43.121033,-119.610901,40.094882,-124.532776_rect/7_zm/

$20,000 10 acres

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/CA/pmf,pf_pt/2089265219_zpid/9_rid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/43.121033,-119.610901,40.094882,-124.532776_rect/7_zm/

Here's a real nice one: 40 acres that you can subdivide in 10 acre lots to recover maybe all or more of the initial cost. $70,000. Beautiful forest.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/CA/pmf,pf_pt/2090586048_zpid/9_rid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/43.121033,-119.610901,40.094882,-124.532776_rect/7_zm/

Montana - $100,000 3 acres 1500 sq ft house hi speed internet

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2098430257_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/48.945955,-103.879853,47.598755,-106.34079_rect/8_zm/

"Work from home with the reliable fiber optic internet," 20 acres 1344 sq ft house $145,000 (maybe subdivide some of it and get alot $ back.)

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2088761038_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.841525,-101.771851,44.335636,-111.615601_rect/6_zm/

Golden Glacier Parklands Lot 37
Babb, MT 59411
1.49 acres
Lot/Land
$59,500

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2109716815_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/50.774682,-108.264771,45.371443,-118.108521_rect/6_zm/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2106683926_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.260635,-115.135346,47.921864,-117.596283_rect/8_zm/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2094694546_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.260635,-115.135346,47.921864,-117.596283_rect/8_zm/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2108775856_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.162849,-116.755829,47.821454,-119.216766_rect/8_zm/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2117989379_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.162849,-116.755829,47.821454,-119.216766_rect/8_zm/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2088289856_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.163746,-116.755829,47.822376,-119.216767_rect/8_zm/

7 acres $14,000 cool Washington - Canada border

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/2087773157_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.079263,-117.17537,48.411884,-118.405839_rect/9_zm/

cool little cabin in beautiful mountains $48,000

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/84763994_zpid/owner-financing-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.419014,-120.051727,48.084501,-122.512665_rect/8_zm/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/59_rid/0_singlestory/64.867608,-58.40332,20.756114,-137.15332_rect/3_zm/1_p/

here's a map of land and homes for less than $75k on lots bigger than 1 acre around North Dakota:

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/0-75000_price/0-305_mp/43560-_lot/globalrelevanceex_sort/50.155785,-95.377808,44.684277,-105.221558_rect/6_zm/

Find someone to team up with to share costs. Get some room mates after you get the place. (esp workable in college area)

Trump

climber
Sep 29, 2018 - 09:31am PT
No Iíve never been black, but I still try to imagine what itís like to be black and to formulate perspectives that include what I think it must be like to be black.

Sorry if we fall short of being able to completely imagine what her life is like, and the challenges she faces. I probably fall short of the same thing with my black kids.

But folks have honestly tried to help her.

Sheís the expert on her. If she canít find a solution, and the people who are spending their time thinking about her situation and posting to this thread in order to try to help her, canít help her, then sheís not gonna improve unless she finds a solution that she can get behind. Thatís a bummer for all of us, but probably mostly for her.

Iíve wished her well several times, and many people have offered suggestions, and sheís offered back problems with all of them. Ok, there are probably problems with everything.

And if she canít avoid herself slipping into poverty, thatís a bummer. I hope my kids and their birth relatives are able to avoid that, and I hope she can too.

Median net worth of white American families is $171,000. Median net worth of black American families is $17,600.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/recent-trends-in-wealth-holding-by-race-and-ethnicity-evidence-from-the-survey-of-consumer-finances-20170927.htm

Whatís her individual net worth - $200,000?
John M

climber
Sep 29, 2018 - 10:20am PT
Thatís a bummer for all of us, but probably mostly for her.

really? its a bummer for you? you spent 10 minutes of your life and it didn't seem to help and now you are bummed?

um.. uh.. well, at least you recognize that it might be worse for her.

Sorry you are bummed. life sure is hard. aint it.

you climb 5.2 yet?
John M

climber
Sep 29, 2018 - 10:52am PT
and most people have no idea what its like to deal with chronic health issues. they don't even seem to know the basics about bipolar, which is that it is a cycle, part of which is DEPRESSON. which would account for how she responds. I think that she is doing a damn good job of being decent even though people have called her a troll and now say that she is too negative.

You have read about her for all of a few minutes and you are certain that she is just too negative.

She has likely dealt with being bipolar for most of her life. She managed to immigrate from a country like Russia and while dealing with being bipolar she managed to save 200 k, something which most Americans who are healthy can't even do. Bipolar isn't something that just happens overnight.

She is facing a very uncertain future, but in your opinion she is too negative because she didn't glowingly respond to suggestions that she has looked at and which don't appear to work.

all right. I would say that is pretty ignorant, but you have a right to your opinion.

By the way.. many well respected and well liked climbers have killed themselves because they couldn't deal with being bipolar. But yea. she has survived and even saved money but in your opinion she is too negative Got it.



Maybe.. just maybe she is being realistic and that is the only way that she can survive knowing herself and her limitations.

For years I had people tell me about depression. People who had been depressed because their dog died. They were certain that they knew what it was like. uh huh. Much like a 5.2 climber telling someone about to climb K2 what to do.
John M

climber
Sep 29, 2018 - 11:17am PT
Look.

some of the people on this thread have been very kind and decent. I fully acknowledge that and appreciate it. But some people have said things that are utterly ridiculous and indicate either a level of malice, or willful ignorance that is difficult for me to ignore because I have had to put up with it with my own situation.


Former climber, I apologize if I have derailed your thread or made things more difficult for you. I hope the best for you.
hailman

Trad climber
Ventura, CA
Sep 29, 2018 - 06:25pm PT
I haven't been following this super closely....but gathered a couple details:

you're looking for rural living?

less regulation?

long cold winter?

have you looked at Western Wisconsin?

I have very fond memories of running around my grandparents' farm in Warrens, Wisconsin as a kid. They had a lot of land and practiced a fair bit of subsistence farming. They were very old school having lived through the Depression as kids themselves.

People in towns like Warrens are very friendly and everyone knows each other. I miss the old farm.

Hope ya find what you're looking for!
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 22, 2019 - 01:22pm PT
hailman, John M and Mei - thanks a lot for your thoughts, I appreciate the messages.

John M -- no I don't really pay attention to negative things said here, I'm quite used to hatred and bias (this reflects on them, not on me). These people, who tell me to go home, etc, might actually soon end up being sorry for themselves, not for me...with the economy forecast and their kids themselves being told to "go back to Europe", without repercussions.

Most people fail to see what'd happened to the US and where this is all heading, sadly. Back in the day I predicted collapse of Soviet Union (which I later helped to overthrow), and was laughed at: shortsightedness doesn't surprise me.
Both the US and Russia are not nice places to be right now, oppressive and war-hungry, not much concerned with their own citizens well-being and on totalitarian track, with few oligarchs having extreme power and greed being the main philosophy.

(don't worry about me, I'll find my corner of the world permanently away form humans, somewhere in the Balkans or in the North Maine woods, I'm looking... polako, maŮana)
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jan 22, 2019 - 02:39pm PT
Dear Friend:

When deciding to relocate to another country, it is helpful to see where other American ex-pats are flocking to, why they go there, and what they say about their experiences. As an example, Ecuador is popular right now. Low cost of living, good as far as crime and personal safety, good food, enough amenities to feel comfortable, nice climate, etc. One thing to consider, as one gets older, most people dislike the cold, and want to be where it's warmer. There are some temperate locations in the South, but when I think Russia, two words that come to mind are "North" and "Cold."
Personally, I don't find the oppressive and warmongering aspect of the U.S. politics has much of any effect upon my personal happiness. True it is especially bad right now, but politicians come and go so quickly.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 22, 2019 - 07:00pm PT
Equador is crime ridden. I'd be afraid to get off the plane there.
There're kidnappings and people live behind bars in their own homes. I know well what's going on there. Expats will tell you any BS to sell their worthless property they're stuck with (and South America RE is overpriced as hell). They don't even report crime to police there, out of fear. Wouldn't want to be the next gringo roasted "cuz they're all rich".
Choices of typical American expats puzzle me and I'm not one of them anyway.

Like I said, I'll find a place permanently away from humans somewhere in the Balkans or North Maine woods.

By "oppressive" I meant not just politics but all aspects of life at this point, it's Orwell 1984 now.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 22, 2019 - 11:09pm PT
afraid to get off the plane there

Surely you jest!
Ecuador is FAR BETTER than you make it out to be. Yes, one must exercise caution and be
aware but where is that not necessary? Its tourism industry is booming - hardly likely if it was
as bad as you make out. Planning a trip there myself soon I hope.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 23, 2019 - 06:58am PT
....I'll find a place permanently away from humans....

Or maybe figure out why you feel like that rather than attempting to run away which isn't likely to work.

capseeboy

Social climber
portland, oregon
Jan 23, 2019 - 09:08am PT
You can run but you can't hide for long. Live out of your car until you have made up your mind. Cheers!
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 23, 2019 - 11:16am PT
Reilly
"One thing Iím willing to bet on is that the Roosky Border officers will be more welcoming "

And they may bestow upon you a special thumbdrive with valuable contents!
And then provide you a unique stay with room and board!
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 23, 2019 - 01:27pm PT
fear: "Or maybe figure out why you feel like that rather than attempting to run away which isn't likely to work."

--why does it bother you? Mind your life.


I want nothing to do with humans or society for a long time . In fact I already live this way for years. Just need to get further away from you busybuddies, somewhere to the end of the long dirt road where ya'd never go.
Enjoy your life, the way you like it -- just don't tell others how to live theirs.
Buh bye.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 23, 2019 - 01:28pm PT
Moose, sacrasm and immature mocking not appreciated: why do you flaming libs want to force everyone to live exactly like you and have a problem with people living like they want to? You shouldn't.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 23, 2019 - 01:31pm PT
capseeboy: "You can run but you can't hide for long. Live out of your car until you have made up your mind. Cheers!"


Boo hoo, little envious mouth....I'm living in La Jolla right now, where you probably can't afford to live.
You oversocialized boys, why do ya always need others around ya, to live?
Helpless much? Go punch instagram buttons, ya social queens.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 23, 2019 - 01:36pm PT
pendejo, I'll fight my fight....you have no idea.
I nearly took sniper bullets multiple times, for things I believed in, been subject to mock execution, been in front of a tank trying to light it up. I'll never give up the fight for some stuff I believe in, don't worry.

Reilly, I know what crime-prone hellhole Ecuador is ("excercise caution"! Haha! Nope, I don't want to. I just want to live in rural home without being bothered by criminals who have free reign. I like to keep my windows open and camp in the backyard, not in a place with bars on every window, everywhere) and don't buy any sucker-expat-focused fraud realtor BS. Entire South America is crime ridden, not just Ecuador, may be with exception of Chile. If someone thinks they can safely live in a rural property in Ecuador, especially as lone expat: they'd lost it. And real estate is ridiculously overpriced there, prices are higher than in some US states there. Also, climate, nature, culture and language of Ecuador are of no interest to me (but this is hard to grasp for some people who're pushing certain agenda, I don't mean you).
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 23, 2019 - 01:54pm PT
If you've got it all figured out then why are you posting on a public forum? Seems odd.

Good luck wherever you end up.

formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 23, 2019 - 02:08pm PT
Won't be reading replies anymore, since now there's mostly oversocialized, outraged -at-notion of privacy folks who think everyone should live just like they do. (result of of MSM brainwashing) May be ya also think one should go to church, the same one as yours?

Earlier, there was some good feedback which has been appreciated and considered, (yes including Ecuador, though I don't agree)!

Oversocialized, dependent, scared-to-be alone folks: why so needy?
Try living away from society, alone, may you you find new strengths in yourself and enjoy it.
I lived this way for 10 years, working from home, not socializing, but never had enough land for privacy before. Now I'll get it.

The only good way is to live is at the end of a looong dirt road, where busybuddies are afraid to go to push agendas and nosy neighbors can't see ya. "No Trespassing" and "Beware of dog" signs, and guard alpakas to boot. Being snowed-in.
Paddle faster, oversocialized buddies...there might be banjos!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvIPNiTRHEI
[Click to View YouTube Video]
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 23, 2019 - 02:12pm PT
Be well... you can also delete the thread since you're the original poster.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 23, 2019 - 02:14pm PT
I want nothing to do with humans or society for a long time . In fact I already live this way for years. Just need to get further away from you busybuddies, somewhere to the end of the long dirt road where ya'd never go.

You know, this is exactly why I will not tell you about my 70 mile dirt road that dead ends at the Canadian Border. Having every single ingredient you list many times upthread, possibly one of the last gems of its kind left in the U.S., including a complete biological ecosystem and super cool community of gardeners, log home builders, pot lucks, the cooler climate you seek, you name it, its still here and you are under the impression no more of these exist. Tsk Tsk, Good luck in Maine.

I really thought about turning you on to the locale but hesitated because I didn't think you had the substance to appreciate the historical setting here. Sure, google it all you want but you still won't learn, nor have the inside track. Your responses were impressive at times but in the end I sensed your bitterness and you just won't fit in.

Cheers,
Arne
Trump

climber
Jan 23, 2019 - 04:48pm PT
From the OPs previous posts, unmedicated manic phase maybe? Wishing us all good health, mental and otherwise.

Best of luck to you, again, living as you say, ďthe only good way to liveĒ, away from all those other folks who ďthink everyone should live just like they doĒ. Who knows, maybe theyíll be as mentally healthy and happy as you are doing it your way. I hope yíall are.

Did ya see that huge cliff I had to climb in order to post this?! I am a stud!, like you all, no doubt. Word!, my good neighbors, sac-raz-em and all.

This oneís for you moose!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
jaredg

climber
california
Jan 23, 2019 - 09:08pm PT
OP's not the only one here:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2950955/Anybody-live-off-grid
capseeboy

Social climber
portland, oregon
Jan 24, 2019 - 08:37am PT
Hey, sorry if I pissed you off. I'm often too brief in my post's which often lead to misunderstandings. I also use 'you' when I mean 'I'.

'I' can run but 'I' can't hide for very long.

'I' would live in my car while traveling to explore different areas for a potential place to call home.

Best wishes and good luck.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 24, 2019 - 11:24am PT
Should I return to Russia


Yes. Raise the IQ of both countries.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 24, 2019 - 12:03pm PT
Ain't no safe space from them banjos



Not reading replies....don't see a button to delete or lock the thread, might not have required privileges.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 24, 2019 - 12:17pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 24, 2019 - 05:58pm PT
Doesnít that just get you on the ďpeople who have deleted their postĒ thread?
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 24, 2019 - 08:03pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 24, 2019 - 09:11pm PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 24, 2019 - 10:07pm PT
This is a sad case. I thought she really wanted our inimitable advice but now it would seem
that her butthurt has belied a less than stellar trollage.
formerclimber

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 25, 2019 - 12:04pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Messages 1 - 236 of total 236 in this topic
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