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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 3, 2018 - 07:31am PT
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They have a bunch of routes back east. I was never impressed or enticed to to venture on the Conn rt on Cannon ( looks like a Heap)but Conns east @ Seneca was impressive and the work they did in the Needles nothing short of Brilliant! Go climb these routes with todays gear and think what it must have been like in 1950!
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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In the 50's...smooth-soled sneakers...manila rope...a few surplus pitons...forest duff to combat the palm-sweat...nearly complete solitude....
Jan's quote is still the best..."you can climb almost anything in the Needles if you have the guts."
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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I totally agree, the Conns were amazing. While their route on Cannon Mountain,N.H. (Conncourse) definitely does not ascend the cleanest section of rock, that was typical for routes on that particular cliff for many years both prior and subsequent to their climb (there are those who consider the entire cliff to be a chosspile--though a grand one). In fact their original route no longer exists as they climbed it, though some of the better portions have been absorbed into subsequent routes, most notably Moby Grape. What is really significant about that climb however, is that the Conns came up from D.C. to climb the crag, the largest in the region (likely significantly bigger than anything they had previously climbed), without any knowledge of what had already been done there, with no one around were help to be needed, minimally equipped, and picked and climbed on-sight a direct line up the tallest, most imposing section of the cliff (the few earlier routes were more on the edges of this extensive crag).Once modern gradings were developed, Conncourse--before it partially fell down, was graded at 5.8--basically as hard as anything climbed in the country at that time (mid-1940s). A really amazing, committing climb.
On a much smaller scale, their routes at Carderock, outside of D.C., such as Jan's Face, were also of an incredibly advanced level of difficulty for the times. Later, in addition to their climbing exploits, the Conns were also pioneering cave explorers, particularly in Jewel Cave near their home in the Black Hills.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Thanks for the references, Rich.
The first photo on this thread is of Spire One and the Javelin. I drove down from Glasgow AFB in 1960 and soloed the Conn route on the Spire a couple of times - not the narrow chimney pitch! And then in 1964 did the FFA of the Javelin. Jan and Herb had done a lasso ascent before. I used a bolt for protection that had been placed by John Evans - a climber who was a powerful college wrestler and alligator wrestler in the Black Hills during the summer. He had taken a fall and bent the bolt a tad, but it was still OK.
I visited the Conns several times, and remember Herb showing me an electrical experiment he was running in the Conncave. He had worked for the Navy during WWII as an electrical engineer.
I think I may have made the 2nd ascent of the South Tower in the Cathedrals, but maybe not. Long time ago. But I was always impressed with Conn climbs in the Needles. What a remarkable pair they were!
Nice Wikipedia page. Thanks to someone for designing it and putting it on the Web.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Conn Diagonal on Outer Outlet still sticks in my head as one of the most imposing climbs ever. There's just something strange and magical about that dark looming face, as if it were really 1000 feet tall. True to the 5.7 grade there are still a couple spots I remember, over 10 years later.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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I climbed Conns East at Seneca 16 or so years ago. Great route!
They did an early (3rd?) ascent of the Great White Throne in Zion.
Amazing climbing legacy.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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This photo caption from the Wiki page is interesting:
They used 80[2] foot ropes, which are about a quarter of the length of modern ropes,
Aw mom! Why do I have to take math in school!?!?!
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DanaB
climber
CO
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Alan, thanks for mentioning the Conncourse route. You've basically said all that needs to be said, but it always mystified me their route on Cannon has gotten so little attention.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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I recall them telling me they used 60 foot ropes, but my memories could be faulty.
"In the 50's...smooth-soled sneakers"
They bought really tight fits, then hatch-marked the soles with some sort of knife.
"forest duff to combat the palm-sweat..."
Not forest duff, rather (greenish) pine cone powder. Forest duff was used by a few Teton climbers at the Jenny Lake boulders prior to the mid 1950s. Maybe elsewhere.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
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No way we wanted any part of that tight chimny on spire 1. We did the Reppy variation. super cool! we did see a few old yellow paint cans on summits and assumed that they were Conn origionals.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Headed to Spearfish canyon
Right now!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 05:59am PT
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We slept there one night in heavy rain but did not get a chance to climb.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 06:05am PT
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Tell us more stories John and Rich.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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I love Lindsys guide book. It keeps the adventure... "Follow the obvious route" trying to find your way in The Picket fence is quite interesting!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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In these days of minutely detailed beta, the Conns approach to adventure was from a different age and perspective. They never did describe their hardest route, the East Face of the East Gruesome, and simply suggested climbers figure it out for themselves. Same thing with Spire 3. The Conns climbed an easy but intricate and circuitous route in 1949 and left it for others to figure out where they had gone (I'm not sure anyone has managed to find the Conns original way).
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 11:14am PT
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Spire 3 had us quite intimidated.The Conns must have been about as good and brave as anyone in the climbing world at the time..
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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Spilt Pinnacle, the skinny thing on the right. Conns climbed this. I could not figure out where the short chimny is?? and how you get from there to the shoulder??? Impressive!
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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The Cons were really inspiring people and climbers,
It would have been a joy to know them and climb in their era.
This thread is awesomeness 👍👍
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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The Conns were up to American standards for a while (although California climbers soon passed them), but European standards were always ahead. And although quite a lot of Conns' climbing was, by necessity, very runout, making them in some sense "brave," somehow that term doesn't seem to fit them very well. There is something stern and tough about bravery which doesn't align with the playfulness and almost childlike joy the Conns brought to their climbing. If Alex Lowe's comment about the best climber being the one who is having the most fun is true, then the Conns were among the worlds best ciimbers ever.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
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I will buy that. So has anyone done Spilt Pinnacle?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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In spite of spending a lot of time in the Needles over the years, the only thing I've done in the Picket Fence is the Wicked Picket and the pinnacle to the right of it in your picture---can't remember the name at the moment.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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which one is wicket?? we only got in here on our last day. We did The sickle. 2nd from left.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
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Crazy stuff Mike!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Actually, what I've done is Wicked Picket and Grandaddy.
All Piana has to say about the Split Picket is that a chimney on the North side leads to the top (5.2). FA H & J Conn, July 14, 1949.
The North "side" would be somwhere on the back of the pinnacle as viewed from your picture and the diagram above.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Soloed the Wicked Picket in 1960. A few years later did the FA of El Mokanna with Pete Cleveland (name came from a Sax Rohmer novel)- 5.9/10; a bit later Mark Powell found an easier route on the other side.
I don't know if tidbits like this are relevant on this thread.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 05:18am PT
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Totally interesting John. Lindsys book has split pinnacle at 5.6 I could not find a short chimney? About all I could recon was that you stem between the two pinnacles until it becomes necessary to commit to the face of split pinnacle. Looks pretty darn brave....
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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When I did the South Tower in 1958 or 1959 I seem to recall climbing something on the other side of the chimney where you take the big step across to access the ST. What might that have been?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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When I did the South Tower in 1958 or 1959 I seem to recall climbing something on the other side of the chimney where you take the big step across to access the ST. What might that have been?
The Gruesome Twosome form the opposite boundary wall of the South Tower route. That's why you can do the excellent Conn route on the East Gruesome, rappel into the notch, and then do the South Tower of Spire 4. The rappel off the East Gruesome is quite overhanging, so there was no route up that way when I was active. We left that for future generations. The West Gruesome is another story. In 1953, the Conns did a 5.3 route out of the West Gruesome-South Tower notch that contoured around to the South Face; you might easily have soloed that John.
Four years later, some guy by the name of John Gill, partnered by Doug Jesserson, started in the same place but contoured around to the north face; that route is 5.5 and is presumably the one you remember.
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Fan
climber
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If Alex Lowe's comment about the best climber being the one who is having the most fun is true, then the Conns were among the worlds best ciimbers ever.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Thanks, Rich. Yes, Doug Jefferson, a seasonal ranger working on a graduate degree in history in the New York area. I wonder what became of Doug?
I think my companion on the South Tower was Fred Wright, and it may have been in 1957. I wore Cortina klettershue, I recall. Not great footwear!
I think it was 1958 when an slightly older friend from the U. of Georgia - a Korean War vet - and I stopped off in the Needles on the way to the Tetons. I started up the Conn route on Rubaiyat Spire, leading up a crack, only to look down and see that the rope had separated from a single piton far below me. A chilling moment that undid my friend on belay,insisting we go down and get off that thing! I don't think I ever went back, but I soled Khayyam Spire several times on trips down from Glasgow AFB around 1960.
Beckey did a nail-up route on Khayyam before it was free climbed by the Conns I think. He was in a hurry I guess.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Khayyam was not one of Beckey's finer moments---he used two bolts for aid on a 5.6 face in 1952. Wiessner had been in roughly the same place in 1937, moved over to a 5.7 crack, and climbed the whole thing free without leaving any fixed gear.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 03:07pm PT
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Khayyam looks intimidating as heck!
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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I was looking at the historic photos of the FA (1936) of the Totem Pole (Traffic cop rock) to see what Dave Rearick told me about Wiessner using a shoulder stand at one point. Poor definition defeats me.
https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/106409738
If so, Dave made the actual FFA in the late 1950s or early 1960s, calling it about 5.8.
Shoulder stands were common and interpreted as "free" climbing in the European tradition of those times.
Rearick had a stroke several years ago and lives in a retirement home in Boulder.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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John, from what I recall from having done the route and having talked to Fritz about it, the shoulder stand would have happened a moment before photo #4 was snapped. It wasn't so much a classic shoulder stand as a momentary stress-reliever for the leader, i.e. he stepped down for a moment onto a shoulder.
We used to argue about shoulder stands with Fritz, who insisted on the Dresden definition that the climbing team is "one attacking unit" and so using each other for help is not any kind of artificial aid.
The FFA of the Needles Highway Totem Pole was made by Harvey T Carter in 1954, two years before Dave, but Carter placed a bolt at the hard part where Fritz took a shoulder. I suppose one could argue about which ascent was more demanding.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Just out of curiosity John, do you have any other info re: Dave Rearick?
I worked for him in the Math Module Program at CU around '89 when I was majoring in math and getting my teaching license. We became friends, and he actually invited me to his house to see original shots of the the f.a. of the Totem Pole (the one in Monument Valley). I had climbed it in "87 and it was something that we sort of bonded over. Seeing those pix from a true pioneer such as Dave felt like such an honor, and I still remember the stark simplicity of his house in N. Boulder.
Knowing that Dave had freed that 4th (or was it the 3rd??) pitch of Athlete's Feat gave me the impetus to actually fire it the first time. I was so proud and Dave was very psyched about my success when I told him about it. My friendship with Dave also inspired me to go up and attempt D1 on the Diamond, but we ended up bailing after p3, finding out how crappy the rock actually is on the route.
I haven't heard a thing about Dave in years, if not decades. I ran into him on an RTD bus maybe 25 years ago or so, and he didn't look like he was doing so well at the time, which made me feel bad. I have always wondered if he was still around and if so, how he was doing. If you know anything more currently it would be appreciated.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Dave suffered a stroke in 2014 that left him debilitated on his right side, I believe. He was in therapy for awhile, then sold his home. He lives now at the Meridian Retirement Home at Table Mesa. I last talked with him in March of 2016. I can't find his phone number - he has never used a computer - but they will connect you with him I suspect. Like me, he still plays with math (number theory), or at least he did in 2016. He's 84 or 85.
If you call him give him time to get to the phone.
Shoulder stands: Empornadel 1930s
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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wbw- Contact me at scgrossman (at) msn (dot) com.
Dave is doing fine but could certainly use some entertainment.
Check your email John.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2018 - 06:11am PT
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the worm hole. shoulder was trying to pop out... much better here seems like they used this as decent route??
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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The Conns believed you hadn't truly climbed a route unless you had also downclimbed it, so the chances are that they did descend that way. I don't know if they applied this philosophy to their hardest climbs or not. They didn't generally lead down their routes, but instead set up a rap anchor but used it for an upper belay for the second person down.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
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The story is that they rolled a boulder out of the way so that they could down climb through this hole..
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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I don't know if tidbits like this are relevant on this thread.
I for one visit this site trying to find tidbits from folks like yuou, so keep 'em coming!!
I, regrettably never made it to the Needles of SoDak since my move to MT. This was because finding a partner for it wasn't easy..
Keep it up!!
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Thank you for the update on Dave, Professor Gill and Steve.
Number theory is a pretty heavy topic to play around with. My elementary analysis course that I took, coincidentally while I was working for Dave, was the hardest course I ever took. . can't say I fully grasped it. Guess that's the difference between being a professor and a high school math teacher.
Steve, I'll be sending you an email. Cheers!
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Herb and Jan would boulder occasionally. They liked to do long traverses right off the ground. I seem to recall going out with them one time, but I can't recall if they accepted the use of chalk. Probably not. Rich?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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They never used chalk themselves as far as I know. I also don't know whether they had any reaction to others using it. In other words, I know nothing...
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Looking back at the P1 belay from the top of P2 on Conn Diagonal.
Such a fun climb.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
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Jason. where is that climb?
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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The conn routes on the First Cathedral spire(on the left with the small block on top), Rubyatt (Spire in the lower right part of the picture), and East Gruesome are some of the routes I found most impressive.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
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which one is east Greusem??
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Not in that pic; the Gruesome Twosome are on the south flank of Spire 4. In the pic below (from internet) Spire 4 is the highest pinnacle. (Actually, I think we are looking at the South Tower of Spire 4 and Spire 4 is either out of sight behind it or blends in too well to be distinguished.) The two pinnacles down the ridge to the right of the high point are the West and East Gruesomes. The East Gruesome is on the right, mostly in the shade, and has a rectangular shape from this perspective. We are looking at the west aspects of the Gruesomes; their east faces are on the other side, dropping down into the relatively wide 4-5 gully.
Here's their locations, using a sketch map Herb Conn used in an Appalachia article (June, 1953. See http://sylvanrocks.com/history_custer/custer_jan_herb_conn);.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
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so when you climb the standard rt on spire 4 and then step across the void to the other summit you are actually on South tower?
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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No that is all part of spite 4. When you start the standard route below the worm hole south tower is on your right. It would be a longgggggg jump to south tower.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
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But the description in guide says it is a long jump?? ;)
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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When I made the second ascent of the ST I wondered about Herb (a lot shorter) and that stem across the gap.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 10, 2018 - 07:20am PT
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There are different gaps being discussed here. Nick was asking about the gap between the South Tower and Spire 4; that gap is too big to either bridge or jump. John is speaking of the gap between the South Tower and the West Gruesome, that gap is stemmed as part of the start of the South Tower route. See the map I added to a previous post.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 10, 2018 - 05:21pm PT
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2018 - 04:44am PT
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Super cool. hopefully the next time out there we will get a chance to get up Khayyam, South tower and East Greusem. outer outlet as well.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 11, 2018 - 08:24am PT
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The last three are Needles classics! Khayyam looks spectacular, but the regular route comes in from a ridge to the North and isn't really worth a visitor's time. Do Rubyiat instead. I've been told that God's Own Drunk on Khayyam is a good 5.8, but haven't done it myself. There is at least one route on Khayyam that comes close to that spectacular face; it clocks in at 5.12.
There are other classics (understand that my days in the Needles are, as Tom Higgins would have said, from Long Ago, and there may be many newer worthy routes---this is especially true of the area called Middle Earth, which had hardly had any routes when I was active).
I think two classics in the must-do category are the regular route on the Sore Thumb (5.9) in the Needle's Eye area and the Tricouni Nail (Cerberus) in the Ten Pins. In the Outlets, after doing the Conn Diagonal and rappelling off the backside of the Outer Outlet, and having lugged some big cams up with you, consider turning around and heading up the Nick of Time (5.10-).
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Aug 11, 2018 - 04:43pm PT
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Here are a couple of photos I forgot I had.
Tom Higgins on the Endpin and (I think it might be) Pete Cleveland on his ascent of Hairypin. I recall that Pete climbed a tree adjacent to the spire and put a sling up high to protect the bottom part of the climb. The top part looked hairy. This may or may not be him on that climb. It's possible it is Bob Kamps on the Endpin. I was terrible at keeping track of climbs back then.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2018 - 08:33pm PT
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God's own Drunk looks stunning. It's also 5.9r in at least one book. Planning on having a real look at it next trip providing we are climbing well. I have been up Cerebus/Triconia but Isa has not. What a wonderful place.
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Fan
climber
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Aug 14, 2018 - 10:16am PT
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John, having spent a considerable amount of time seeing Bob from that viewpoint, I don't think it's him, but am not absolutely sure.
Bonnie Kamps
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