Trump is not good for the U.S. economy.

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Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 25, 2018 - 08:15pm PT
Despite "weak" assertions by Trumpites, the U.S. stock market has not done well in 2018 & Trump's tariffs are a source of dissent by his supporters, especially those from agricultural states.

The Trumpian tariffs may well crash our current positive economic growth.

The Obama economy, after the great stock market crash of 2008, way outperformed the economy that Trump inherited from Obama.


S & P 500 year to date. It's positive, but way below what was normal during Obama's presidency.

monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 25, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
Paging blahblah...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 25, 2018 - 08:34pm PT
Friz,
Riddle me this:
When is it easier to have strong stock market returns:
right after a near-historic stock market crash (caused by a number of complex factors, most notably due to liberal policies encouraging lending to poorly qualified borrowers), or
after a very long (but somewhat muted) bull market?

Obama didn't do a terrible job by any means, but we were stuck in a bit of a rut, things are finally cooking now.

And don't you worry your pretty little head with all those charts and numbers: just look at the Dow on election night and now. Unless you foolishly got out of the markets (which I dearly hope is not the case), the Trump presidency should have been very, very good to you.
And best of all we're not getting guilt tripped all the time like we were under Obama and Holder.

SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jul 25, 2018 - 08:37pm PT

Trump is not good.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 25, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
blah , blah , blah is right....the stock market is cooking just like it did when Bush tanked the economy...
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
blahblah? Despite your pseudo-parental assertions:

And don't you worry your pretty little head with all those charts and numbers: just look at the Dow on election night and now. Unless you foolishly got out of the markets (which I dearly hope is not the case), the Trump presidency should have been very, very good to you.
And best of all we're not getting guilt tripped all the time like we were under Obama and Holder.

I am mostly a buy & hold investor, with the vast majority of my money in Vanguard stock & bond funds.

I do believe your Trumpian beliefs, are contrary to thoughts held by folks with wider world-views than you have.
i-b-goB

Social climber
Nutty
Jul 25, 2018 - 08:48pm PT
Democratic socialism & being taxed at 90% is not good for the U.S. economy, you'll see it when it happens, but then it will be too late!
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Jul 25, 2018 - 08:58pm PT
tariffs figure to tack $5,700 onto an F-150. that alone will secure the orphanator's place in history
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
i-b-gobe! Re your assertion:

Democratic socialism & being taxed at 90% is not good for the U.S. economy, you'll see it when it happens, but then it will be too late!


I really do try to be polite on ST, but I can't work with people who have zero grasp of reality.

That is you.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2018 - 09:02pm PT
hoobie! Per your post!

tariffs figure to tack $5,700 onto an F-150. that alone will secure the orphanator's place in history


Heidi, who owns a 2009 F-150 has been thinking about a new one & my Toyota 4-Runner dates to 2013.

After seeing projected price increases for new autos, thanks to Trumpian tariffs, on NBC tonight, we are both motivated buyers.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 25, 2018 - 09:03pm PT
Basic Obama doctrine, both in economics and foreign policy- "DON'T DO STUPID SH#T". The economy was recovering at a reasonable rate for those of us that don't rely on gang raping the vulnerable for financial gain and actually earn a living.

Why is Neo-Reaganism all about wasting stimulus bullets in the midst of recovery while amassing huge debt through unfunded tax cuts and spending? Greeeeed!

Blah- I'm a home builder or better known as, the canary in the cole mine. Labor markets are tight and I'm receiving material increases from our supply houses weekly. Your stock market is going to take a dump and a recession engineered by Trump and Congressional Republicans is heading our way.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 25, 2018 - 09:05pm PT
Fritz....Trump is a genius and surrounded by the smartest republicans....your investments are safe...fear not...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 25, 2018 - 09:11pm PT
Did you mean Redfoon...?
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 25, 2018 - 09:16pm PT
Black Monday II — 10/22/2018
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 25, 2018 - 10:23pm PT
The S&P 500 is up right about 33% since Trump was elected. That’s a darn nice return for a
year and a half. However, I don’t deceive myself by thinking it’s all Trump’s doing just like I
don’t think most market movement, up or down, is more than marginally attributable to many
presidents. They’re largely along for the ride. Just as y’all love to point out that index funds
outperform a lot of managed funds then you have to concede the same holds true for managing
the economy. Yes, you can royally screw it up easier than you can move it upwards but in the
last 50 years its sheer mass and momentum make it akin to driving a supertanker with a 50 HP
outboard. Fortunately, that is feasible as long as it is done by the likes of Janet Yellen and
Jerome Powell.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 25, 2018 - 10:28pm PT
Herr Fritz be whiny when he's when he's not whining about people who whine all the time. He rides like a Toyota Prius--but squeals like an old Dodge Polara with worn belts and bad wheel bearings.

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 25, 2018 - 11:04pm PT
The market is up about 7% YTD for 2018. It did way better than that many of the Obama years. And now there is inflation. That is finally cooking?

Breaking news: the election was Nov. '16, not Jan. '18. We're talking about Trump has done, not how this year has done. After last year's ride, no surprise that we're on the breaks a tad (but things have been looking very good recently).

Now if Fritz is really unhappy with how is investments have done since Trump won, let's see what he held then and what he's got now, and try to figure it out. I just really hope he didn't sell big: I was only joking when I told him that (and maybe trying to scare him a bit, but not maliciously).

I'm a buy-and-hold, Vanguard type of guy myself, and if Fritz isn't literally dancing with joy when he checks his portfolio, something's wrong.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 26, 2018 - 06:16am PT
The US remains the world’s most competitive big economy, by far

Nearly nine years into an economic expansion, most Americans continue to believe their country is headed in the wrong direction. Now that attitude probably reflects more than just economic perceptions. And even feelings about the economy’s vigor seem influenced by political leanings.

That said, there’s some evidence that economic pessimism is unfounded. There is, of course, the continued expansion. And the American jobs machine keeps generating gobs of jobs, resulting in the lowest unemployment rate since 2000.

Then there are those global competitiveness surveys. And according to the latest from Switzerland-based IMD, which has been in the business since 1989, the US has jumped to #1 from a still respectable #4 last year. Even more impressive, there isn’t another large advanced economy — say, with a population at least 10% of America’s — until you get to Canada at #10. The US is also the highest-ranked large advanced economy in the World Economic Forum’s annual competitiveness report, behind only niche Switzerland overall.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 26, 2018 - 06:43am PT
Yes, anyone that pays attention knows this has been the case since WWII.

MAGA would be a prophetic slogan for a future candidate if Trump wins a second term.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:01am PT
With the intense focus on the stock market, it can be easy to forget that the market is one component of the economy; it's not the economy itself.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:09am PT

Trumps unemployment rate looks like a continuation of the rate drop under Obama.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:18am PT
The real problem in my opinion was the tax giveaway. That and deregulation are what is propping up the market. The end result will be that the inevitable recession will be much steeper than it otherwise would have been and the government will have already used it's tool to help (the tax cut).
You would have basically have to have never heard of economic policy to give a huge tax cut when you're nearing full employment. 75% of the ads on the radio (in the Reno/Tahoe area) now are for employers desperately seeking good help, and not finding it.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:28am PT

October 2007?

Hmmm
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:34am PT
And what's the current unemployment rate, Sketchy?

Hmmm
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:38am PT
Breaking news: the election was Nov. '16, not Jan. '18.


If you need to scrape up an extra two months to make your team look good you've already picked a loser.

Go Giants!

Funny world where it's two months from Nov. '16 to Jan. '18. Those 25% gains in 2017 never happened in the world of those suffering from TDS.

After you've figured out that a year is 12 months long, not zero months, read something on mean reversion.

Now Trump's tax cuts may seem like an aggressive maneuver, but you know what they say, make hay while the sun shines.
Remember we had the slowest recovery ever under Obama, so we had a one two punch of the Great Recession and then a historically slow recovery.

People were ready for a little zip in the markets and the economy, just needed a little push in that direction, and it looks like that's what we're seeing.

Oh yes and keep bumping by all means: lots of good discussion here.
John M

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:43am PT
Fast growing economies are unsustainable. They crash.

Slow growth is steady growth and can be sustainable.

only the greedy crave fast growth.

Edit:

There were 270 threads with "obama" in the title. Not sure how many were deleted.

There are 27 Trump threads so far.

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:45am PT
Lock this thread too.

Its another hateful echo chamber.
You mean like Fox News? When you can't deal with reality or actually defend your position, just blame the other side.

The Republican satisfaction with Trump reaffirms a belief I've long privately held, that they are only concerned about their pocket books. Install a demogague who subverts the truth, threatens the fundamentals of our democracy, but it's totally cool as long as my portfolio is going up.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:45am PT
Yeah, this makes perfect sense to me too (written by that bleeding heart, George Will):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/todays-trade-warriors-dont-care-about-the-evidence/2018/07/25/3140adb2-8f6e-11e8-b769-e3fff17f0689_story.html?utm_term=.1bb000859db2





But at least trump is sticking it to the libs.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 26, 2018 - 08:13am PT
Democratic socialism & being taxed at 90% is not good for the U.S. economy,

Actually, the economy was working out pretty well for most people during the height of the New Deal and 90% tax brackets back in the 1950s and '60s.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 26, 2018 - 08:14am PT

Aside from of trying to give him credit for time he wasn't even in office (and editing your posts to change the facts, pure trumpkin, lol) the real story here is that you really have a huge hard on for the guy. Unwavering trumpkin obedience.

Like to be charitable and think you're just confused rather than fibbing, but no editing posts on my part, other than sometimes to fix a typo or add something. I don't think anything got changed in any of my posts in this thread, but if it did and you got confused, sorry.

And yes, Trump does get credit for time he wasn't even in office because prices are based on expectations of future events; the markets expected all sorts of good things would happen under Trump so prices went up.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 26, 2018 - 08:17am PT
Power Crux

Social climber
Collecting farmer welfare

Eddie Triggered is trying to make a point?

I like the title of this thread. Keep bumping it.

There's my little bitch.

Morning, Cupcake.
John M

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 08:18am PT
like promising ice cream to a child to get them to behave. short term gain for long term problems.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 08:45am PT
And yes, Trump does get credit for time he wasn't even in office because prices are based on expectations of future events; the markets expected all sorts of good things would happen under Trump so prices went up

Except that trump was expected to lose.

Lol
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:02am PT
The Crimes, the Hookers, the Porn Stars, the Love Child, the Collusion, the Treason, the Lies, the Racism, the Misogyny, and the Hypocrisy...

Some things never go away like we want them to.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/3070702/Trump-has-entered-the-Querencia-Phase-of-his-presidency
John M

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:26am PT
Blah blah is talking about the boost to the markets, ( which by the way is not the economy ) after it was announced that Trump won. Its not that hard to figure out that people believed that the markets would go up fast because of Trump, and thus the markets did go up. They knew that trump would loosen everything up, making extreme profits possible. The problem with that kind of loosening are all the other extremes that are possible. But some people just don't care because if they can make lots of money, then who cares about things like the environment, or workers rights/needs, or any of the other myriad things that are getting trashed right now. What happened to paying down the debt? What happened to cutting costs? Where is the cheap health care Trump promised? None of these things matter to people who have or are making lots of money because they then believe that they can take care of their little corner of the world. They don't care about anything beyond what directly effects them. And they don't have that much problem with blaming others if others health goes south and they can't afford it. They should have worked harder or smarter is what they say. Its a superiority complex.

That is not to say that the liberals don't have their own form of superiority complex. They certainly do. Its just pointed at different things.

the only way to truly help the country is to balance ones needs with the needs of others. Plus work on moderating ones self. And then if people aren't willing to moderate themselves, then you have to have wise laws in place to help them moderate themselves. Or take away their ability to hurt others. That includes with money.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:26am PT
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:34am PT
f*#king brilliant...^^^
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:35am PT
John, you’re putting words into blahs mouth. He didn’t say any of that.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:38am PT
Except that trump was expected to lose.

Lol

The dramatic shift in prices before and after the election is significant because Trump was expected to lose.
If he would have been expected to win, that would been priced in before the election.
But his election was an upset, and ZOOM, the markets took off after the election.
So Obama and Hillary have to take some blame for the very lackluster returns of mid-2016, and you have to give it to Trumpster for the huge gains that started at the election. (Or to be more precise, you have to give it to investors' expectations of the results of Trump's leadership.)

Edit: I hadn't read John's post when I wrote the above: I basically agree with it, except it's got a bit of a negative connotation about the rising markets.

As to poor dirtbag, gotta work on those reading comprehension skills -- from my earlier post:
And yes, Trump does get credit for time he wasn't even in office because prices are based on expectations of future events; the markets expected all sorts of good things would happen under Trump so prices went up.
John M

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:48am PT
dirtbag.. read my post again. The first sentence is the only part about Blah blah.

When it was assumed that Hillary would win, the markets were stable. They went up after Trump won. For those who don't mind crashes, then in their minds the markets going up fast are good.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:49am PT
Well blah you never said anything about expectations from November 9 2016 onward, so I think my reading comprehension skills are more or less intact.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:55am PT
For those who don't mind crashes

Just like the Bolshies didn’t mind Russia getting its ass kicked in WWI and millions dying.
It’s like a political buying opportunity. Now y’all are jonesing for a good recession so
millions can lose their jobs and homes so they’ll have more time to join the local soviet.
Nothing ever changes...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:08am PT
Its not that hard to figure out that people believed that the markets would go up fast because of Trump

One would think so. But before the election, all the "experts" I saw predicted a bearish reaction if Trump won.
John M

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:21am PT
the "experts" quoted in the media are all too often wrong. Drama sells and so the media quotes the "experts" that help it sell.

If you read the headlines for the fire near Yosemite and didn't do more in depth research, or know the region and how fires behave, then you could be led to believe that it is the end of the world and Yosemite was about to burn down.

How often do we read news reports about climbing accidents and know just how much that they got wrong? The same is true for politics. We play too much "gotcha" politics. But reasonable politics is boring. As is reasonable economic growth. We are addicted to boom bust cycles.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:23am PT
Blah-but you know what they say, make hay while the sun shines.
That pretty much sums up the attitude that has us fuked for generations and is a huge contributor to the necessity of intrusive financial regulation.
i-b-goB

Social climber
Nutty
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:40am PT
Unhindered government entitlements and open borders, is like giving your kids a visa card to use at will that you have to pay for, not recommended to manage your household budget!
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2018 - 10:47am PT
Trump & his henchmen are driving our national debt to new highs per this New York Times article:

How the Trump Tax Cut Is Helping to Push the Federal Deficit to $1 Trillion

The amount of corporate taxes collected by the federal government has plunged to historically low levels in the first six months of the year, pushing up the federal budget deficit much faster than economists had predicted.

The reason is President Trump’s tax cuts. The law introduced a standard corporate rate of 21 percent, down from a high of 35 percent, and allowed companies to immediately deduct many new investments. As companies operate with lower taxes and a greater ability to reduce what they owe, the federal government is receiving far less than it would have before the overhaul.
There's much more to this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/trump-corporate-tax-cut-deficit.html

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:00am PT
Fritz then I suppose you should think Trump is doing a good job, after all your hero Obama is the one who caused the debt to explode, so in that way Trump is just improving on what Obama did, right?

(I have to admit I'm not a fan of the ever-increasing debt, seems imprudent to me. But then I think, what do I know, a mere humble investor, and have to conclude "the markets are always right," and right now everything is looking good.)
John M

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:09am PT
Obama inherited his mess. try occasionally to remember that.

(I have to admit I'm not a fan of the ever-increasing debt, seems imprudent to me. But then I think, what do I know, a mere humble investor, and have to conclude "the markets are always right," and right now everything is looking good.)


the markets looked great in the year leading up to the great depression. Why is that such a difficult thing for you to understand?
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:21am PT
Obama made a conscious decision to increase the debt to stimulate the economy, which is what commonly occurs during a recession; this last recession was quite severe. That is one method to pull out of a recession.

Usually, when times are good (like now), debt and government stimulus should go down. Instead we have a stimulus (tax cut) and resulting increase in debt. It’s ass backwards.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:23am PT
the "experts" quoted in the media are all too often wrong. Drama sells and so the media quotes the "experts" that help it sell.

So, what you're saying is everyone is full of sh*t, regardless of their curriculum vitae.

Case in point - Hillary will win. 100% sure thing!

John M

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:34am PT
So, what you're saying is everyone is full of sh*t, regardless of their curriculum vitae.

not what I said. I said the media will use what it needs to use to substantiate any position it wants. This is possible because people don't really pay that close of attention and also because they believe what they want to believe.

I predicted more then a year before the election that Hillary would most likely lose.


Dirtbag.. good points about spending during a recession to help the economy get past the recession. And yes.. we are doing things bass ackwards right now. Making hay while the sun shines for the economy should mean that we save money while the economy is good, to help during a rainy day.

edit: I'm way over my political post limit for the day. Cheers.. Don't forget to get outside if you can.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 26, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
^ ^ ^

The “interview” is a right-wing fake news hoax that they later labeled as satire when called out on it.

You do know that, right???


edit-

https://theintercept.com/2018/07/24/conservative-network-says-fake-interview-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-satire/

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 26, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
At least on Happie's 30 year-old-van posts we can, theoretically at least, solve a problem.

No multimeter can save this thread.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 26, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
One might have had a similar interview with Trump before he ran for office. On wait, his utter lack of qualifications (as well as his many defects) were very well vetted before the election and the good Republicans of this country nevertheless decided that his absence of any experience, ethics, and intelligence didn't matter. Even after his many many lies, repeated attacks on a free press, creating massive tax cuts for the wealthy, repeated attacks on our intelligence agencies, on the courts, secrets meetings with and capitulating to despots, starting a trade war, etc., etc., this same group believe he's doing a fine job. Loyal only to Trump, not their country.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
Doesn't even climb, does he?

Mark Zuckerberg loses $16B in one day as Facebook stock plunges 20 percent
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 26, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
Lituya - No need to post that disingenuous tripe. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's own words are so revealing.

When asked about low unemployment, she said:
Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week and can barely feed their family.

She graduated Boston University with an Economics degree.

Impressive.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 03:18pm PT
Whaal, he had it comin'

Allen Weisselberg, the man at the financial center of President Trump’s sprawling business operation for the past several decades, has been subpoenaed as a witness in the federal criminal probe into longtime Trump associate Michael Cohen, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

Economies of kale

"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 26, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
The Cons throwing the socialist under the bus is funny.

Ever been to the second most populated district in New York, known as the Bronx?

Out of touch, much?




12 billion dollar bailout to farmers.

Socialism because of?


Laughing Hardly
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2018 - 05:21pm PT
SAD!


Although the above political cartoon makes fun of Trump’s lying, I continue to be surprised that the 40% of Americans who support him, are not bothered by a President, who constantly lies, & expects them to believe his lies.

Despite Fact Checkers revealing how often & how much Trump lies, it doesn’t bother his supporters, who can’t be so dumb or biased that they actually believe those lies. I hope they are not that dumb, but ?????

Per this article on Trump’s lying ways, he & his henchmen lie because there are no penalties: https://www.yahoo.com/news/plenty-presidents-lie-trump-doesnt-care-catch-090048571.html

Trump and his minions don’t fear the consequences of truth, because they don’t believe those consequences really apply to them. The president doesn’t habitually lie — about Russian election meddling, or about his paying off a concubine, or about what he said on camera or into a tape recorder just yesterday or the day before that — because he thinks the truth will be politically calamitous.

No, he lies because he’s pretty sure he can make you believe whatever he wants you to believe (it worked for a self-promoting developer in the New York tabloid world), and there doesn’t seem to be a penalty for trying.
Now, as I’ve written before, my industry bears a lot of the blame for making this possible. My colleagues in the media often seem to blame Trump for creating and stoking the public’s abject distrust, when in fact it was our own vanity and triviality — the glib cable punditry, the obsession with rumors and ratings — that created him.

But if there’s a burden on journalists to rebuild that trust (and there is), then there’s a burden on you, too, to be a shrewder consumer. Because make no mistake: Trump and his acolytes disdain you, in a way Nixon on his worst day did not.

They don’t think you’re smart enough to recognize truth or care about it. They don’t fear your judgment, because they don’t think you have any.

So by all means, be skeptical of the media — we’ve earned it. But don’t be blind. Don’t be taken in by a demagogue, or the sycophants around him, who would have you believe that everything you read that doesn’t conform to your worldview must be nothing but garbage, because he says it is.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 26, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
Just like the Bolshies didn’t mind Russia getting its ass kicked in WWI and millions dying.

Didn't seem to bother the tsar much either. It wasn't the bolshies that went to bat for Serbia.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
He speaks to their fears and pisses off the libs, that’s why they love him.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
But,the economy is cranking.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
Wilbeer. Re your response:

But the economy is cranking.

Indeed it is.

And, as a member of the Trump Advisory Board, I have to warn you that the economy, due to Trump's tax cuts & Tariffs, is about to have a very tough turn.


I still claim to be a Republican, but I'm an Eisenhower Republican, not a Trumpian Republican, even if I am on the TRump Advisory board.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
“So called Conservatives “

Lol.

I hear you Fritz
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 26, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
That a boy.

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 26, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
@RealTraitortRump will soon be rotting in a jail cell where he belongs, and the economy will continue to grow based on the foundation Obama put in place. Oh, and there will be reasonable regulations on the financial industry as well as clean air and water.

Edit

I can easily see tRump taking a trip to Russia and deciding not to come back, whining about the unfair witch hunt while on display in Putin's trophy room.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 26, 2018 - 08:24pm PT
Republicans are attempting to impeach Hotrod Rosenstein , a republican , for failing to barf up Russian collusion witch hunt info...Why don't they ask for trump's income tax returns..? pussies..
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:16pm PT
Lituya - No need to post that disingenuous tripe. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's own words are so revealing.

Appreciate the sentiment, EdwardT.

My Frankfurt School/Habermas devotee colleagues like to remind me that satire and irony are the highest forms of communication. So, on one hand it's not hard to understand why a liberal like Lennox would fail to see this piece sits at the pinnacle of universal pragmatics. (Still, bias confirmation, he found an alt website that told him it was produced with true intent.) On the other hand, it's the exact same schtick Colbert uses in his Donald Trump comedy. The kind that keeps liberals in stitches.

Let's face it, anyone north of a third-grade education knew that piece was satire the first time they watched it. What's funny, in the case of Ms Cortez, is that the piece portrays her intellectual vacuum accurately, as you point out.

I conclude that Lennox and like-minded libs love being outraged. And when they can't find any fresh--they make it up.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:24pm PT
Again, Lituya, she is simply running for Congress and yet probably has 5x times the brain power of the president and yet the Republicans can't lap up his drivel fast enough. Maybe she has a secret 30 day plan to defeat ISIS or best she'll hire "the best people".
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:30pm PT
She's well south of Donald Trump intellectually. (And I don;t think the president is very smart.)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:32pm PT
I know quite a few people working 2 jobs to pay rent .....When the economy tanked , wages went down and mortgages didn't ...Shocker...
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
Cohen: trump knew about 2016 campaign meeting with Russians.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-russia-meeting/index.html


Let’s face it, Cohen is a slime ball who has his own motives for dropping bombshells, so he isn’t exactly credible.

Nonetheless, consider the pot stirred.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 26, 2018 - 09:57pm PT
If Lituya’s own smug illusory superiority and bias hadn’t prevented him or her from reading the linked article, he or she would have seen that at least some trumpies believed this interview to be real, and that Colbert identified his own satirical “interviews” with Trump as fake before anyone had to ask.

I do not think all satire necessarily should be labeled as such, but in this era of fake news, and especially with gullible trumpies as an audience, who believe Trump and his proxies’ every lie, it might be a good idea in some cases such as this.

Satire and irony are topics I spent a good deal of time discussing when I was a high school English teacher. At University I had a prolonged period of fascination with the writings of Swift. I do find it outrageous and discouraging that Trump’s own “A Modest Proposal” is a totally unironic method for dealing with, instead of the Irish, the Mexican “problem.”
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:08pm PT
Trump despises his rank and file supporters, AKA the "base". That's you Lituya. He has zero interest in your station in life. You have nothing that interests him other than perhaps purchasing one of his heinous ties from Bangladesh along with as many ill informed votes you can offer up. He's his own champion, not yours- unless your a Russian sympathizer or a bot.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:16pm PT
Riddle me this:
When is it easier to have strong stock market returns:
right after a near-historic stock market crash (caused by a number of complex factors, most notably due to liberal policies encouraging lending to poorly qualified borrowers), or
after a very long (but somewhat muted) bull market?

Well, let's look at the "daddy": 1929

How long did it take the Stock Market to recover?

25 years.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:17pm PT
Breaking news: the election was Nov. '16, not Jan. '17.



Breaking news, the President doesn't take office in Nov.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:45pm PT
I do not think all satire necessarily should be labeled as such, but in this era of fake news, and especially with gullible trumpies as an audience, who believe Trump and his proxies’ every lie, it might be a good idea in some cases such as this.

Translation: "I want to impose censorship upon content I disagree with politically."

Well done, my HVAC-unit friend.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 26, 2018 - 10:55pm PT
Breaking news, the President doesn't take office in Nov.

This was explained upthread (not just by me), but you're not the only one a little confused so it's probably worth repeating.

The markets shot up after the election because investors believed (correctly as it turns out) that Trump would enact policies that would increase corporate profitability. Markets are predictions about the future, not sentiments about the past. If you don't understand that point, you need to repeat a grade somewhere or other and then come back. (Now there can be some delays that complicate the picture--Obama got a big boost just by being right place right time, whereas everyone blames pool 'ol W just cuz he had the misfortune to be around to hold the bag when the Clinton bubble burst, but that's another story.)

Trump was a longshot, so the markets hadn't priced in his win until it happened. If everyone would have thought Trump would win, there would have been no material change after the election. But in fact there was a huge rise. Just look at at a chart of the Dow (or whatever index) around the time of the election--I suppose you're free to believe it was all a coincidence if you like.

Everyone thought Hills would win, so the markets were continuing in their doldrums until Trump pulled it out, then, WHAMO, the markets caught fire.

I still have hard time understanding why Fritz is so upset UNLESS he had the severe misfortune not to be in equities between Trump's win and now. I truly hope that's not the case, but I don't know, he says he's "mostly" buy and hold, can't discount the possibility that he got worked up by some lib doom and gloomers and panic sold. But otherwise, he should be down on his hand knees at least once a day giving thanks to the glorious market returns we've had since Trump's victory.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:01pm PT
Lil’ wanna-be tsunami,

Having taught AP English language for several years, I must say that you have provided no evidence that the quote you provided indicates that it’s writer is in favor of the imposition of censorship; it could be quite likely that the writer was suggesting that satirists merely consider the intellectual capacity of their intended audience.

Unfortunately, your effort to again tar a liberal with the Maoist brush only serves to again illustrate your own biases and/or lack of reading comprehension.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:07pm PT
Having taught AP English language for several years, I must say that you have provided no evidence that the quote you provided indicates that it’s writer is in favor of the imposition of censorship; it could be quite likely that the writer was suggesting that satirists merely consider the intellectual capacity of their intended audience.

As in the pronoun, its? AP English teacher?? Really??? Yikes!

We should also discuss redundancies and proper use of the semicolon.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:13pm PT
PUNCTUATION?

That’s all you’ve got?

I’ll leave it unedited so you can have your prize.

I suppose an occasional grammatical error was bound to occur when I switched to a career as an ED RN 10 years ago.

But the content of my post still stands.


edit-
After re-reading my post, I was going to change the first “provided” to “produced,” but then I saw you’d already quoted me.

Go ahead and try to make a case against my use of the semicolon. I could use the laugh.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 26, 2018 - 11:35pm PT
A period or a dash would be more appropriate. I don't believe your independent clauses are closely related--especially since you mixed subjects with a comma in the first. If you were one of my students, I would have noted it--but not marked you down.

Still, seriously, you claim to have been an "AP English teacher" and you don't know it's from its? I hate to be a skeptic, but I have doubts about your resume.

No matter, my real complaint is with your political thought and the way you present it.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 27, 2018 - 12:00am PT
I often intentionally misuse the semicolon, but not in that instance.

BA UC Berkeley 1990
6 years climbing bum, cook, busser, and substitute teacher
12 years as a high school English teacher—
*Started and taught a pre-AP sophomore program for 3 years
*Taught 2 classes of junior AP English Language for 7 years
* Coached Academic Decathlon for 8 years

Your complaint is actually your problem; you believe that you know my politics and therefore know me. Don’t blame me for all that you despise—if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 12:08am PT
you believe that you know my politics and therefore know me.

Right back at you.

You're right, of course. But guilty as hell.

And this is the problem with anonymous political discourse, I suppose.

Please find the nearest mirror and stare. Then reread some of your posts. Your prose is a bit obnoxious.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jul 27, 2018 - 12:12am PT
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 27, 2018 - 12:50am PT
Please find the nearest mirror and stare. Then reread some of your posts. Your prose is a bit obnoxious.

Not necessary. I am aware of my tone.

Are you aware of yours? I am not the only one that has been bothered by the oily smugness of your posts.

On this note of near agreement I will bid you good night Lituya.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 27, 2018 - 05:59am PT
Not good for the US economy?

GDP Rises 4.1% as Trump Tax-Cut-Fueled Economy Runs Hot
Gross domestic product rises at an annualized rate of 4.1% in the second quarter, doubling from the first quarter's pace to the highest in four years.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:35am PT
Four Cameroonian soldiers have been arrested after a video apparently showing three of them summarily executing two women and their two children accused of belonging to Boko Haram, sources close to the army said Thursday.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:45am PT
If they had been connected to Boko Haram somehow, then shooting the women and children would have been OK?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:56am PT
Here's a link to an interactive map, showing vote totals for the recent presidential election. It appears to zoom in to State level congressional districts.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/election-2016-voting-precinct-maps.html?nl=top-stories&nlid=56786184ries&ref=cta#7.01/33.38/-85.81

Trump

climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:28am PT
I do believe your Trumpian beliefs, are contrary to thoughts held by folks with wider world-views than you have.

Oh yea, I’m a fan of that kind of argument too.

So many people at the higher ends of intelligence loved my press conference in Helsinki

I’m just better at getting people to actually believe that kind of self-serving condescending social-emotional gibberish, with the difference maybe being that I’m doing it purposefully to win elections and successfully influence people, and you’re doing it as an emotional reaction, and losing on the playing field that I helped put you on.

Look who’s intelligent now. If you want to beat me, you’re not gonna do it posting to the 10 people on this forum.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:38am PT
Trump is a genius. He can keep this momentum going by giving huge tax cuts every 6 months and enacting more tariffs. Brilliant.

In Trumps prior life he would sell his stock and leave someone else holding the empty bag. Not an option when you are president.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:25am PT
She's well south of Donald Trump intellectually. (And I don;t think the president is very smart.)
Impossible. My dog has a greater attention span and intellect than Trump. Also, if you think he's not smart, why do you continually defend him against the obvious and justified criticism?

Also, no one is trying to shout the other side down (unless this is a rally of Trump supporters in Charlottesville). This is a discussion. Offering competing points of views is not equal to shouting down, unless you consider everything but an echo chamber the equivalent of shouting down.
John M

climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:31am PT
The economy is more then just a number. Boom and bust cycles are not good for the economy/nation. They are great for people who have the money to speculate. Not good for the average worker. Steady growth is what is good for the average worker.



Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:43am PT
A troll demanded a Muslim man show examples of 'Christian terrorists.' He delivered.

Don't forget George Habash. A Christian, he was founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and the foremost proponent in the PLO of the use of terrorist tactics.

For some reason, it seems that the Christianity of many Palestinians is ignored.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:45am PT
Also, if you think he's not smart, why do you continually defend him against the obvious and justified criticism?

a.) Because he was elected.

b.) Because most of the criticism is not justified.

c.) Because your choice was even worse.

Also, no one is trying to shout the other side down

Gimme a break! This site resides somewhere between a Prius bumper sticker (Fritz)and an ANTIFA riot (xCon). Still, I love the way liberals turn all lucid when they get schooled.

Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 09:10am PT
I am not the only one that has been bothered by the oily smugness of your posts.
You're a modern American liberal. So, naturally, you're bothered by anything or anyone who challenges or disagrees with your worldview.

John M

climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 09:16am PT
just like you sir are bothered by liberals. See how it works? neener neener neener.


That is the level of your discourse.

edit:

yes yes I know.. you would up your level of discourse if liberals would up theirs. Therefore you blame the liberals for your actions. Just like a child.

..........


round and round we go..

welcome to hell
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2018 - 10:22am PT
Lituya! Your statement is hitting below the belt!

This site resides somewhere between a Prius bumper sticker (Fritz)and an ANTIFA riot (xCon).


I hate Prius people!

I'm a tree-hugging, gun-toting, Eisenhower Republican.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 10:31am PT

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 27, 2018 - 11:41am PT
a.) Because he was elected.
He's a president, not a dictator. Republicans seem to have a difficulty distinguishing between the two.

b.) Because most of the criticism is not justified.
Not true. There has not been a single president in modern times who has failed to understand his office so poorly, carried out his duties so poorly, and made such continued threats to our democratic institutions.

c.) Because your choice was even worse.
I have yet to hear a single persuasive argument that doesn't involve some fabricate right wing claim about Benghazi, Nancy Pelosi or alleged Bill Clinton cover up. Do you think she would have started a trade war, created a tax break only for the wealthy, met with Putin in private and threatened to overturn welcome established legal precedent?

Also, no one is trying to shout the other side down

Gimme a break! This site resides somewhere between a Prius bumper sticker (Fritz)and an ANTIFA riot (xCon). Still, I love the way liberals turn all lucid when they get schooled.
Then you need to grow up and put your big boy pants on. For someone who has no problem making ad hominem attacks when you can't respond on the merits, you sure are a sniveling pussy. Get some callous or STFU.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 27, 2018 - 11:56am PT
Do you think she would have started a trade war, created a tax break only for the wealthy, met with Putin in private and threatened to overturn welcome established legal precedent?

Let's see--as a technical matter, the president does not overturn legal precedent, but assuming you mean appointing judges who would:

Yes, very big concern that Hillary's picks would gut the Constitution and overturn bedrock decisions such as Citizens United and Heller.

I'm not a big Trump guy (except for recognizing that the markets and economy seem to be doing extraordinarily well under his stewardship), but at least he's picking judges who will protect our Constitutional rights under the 1st and 2nd Amendments--we should all be thankful for that.
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Jul 27, 2018 - 12:19pm PT
Fritz, that is an excellent photo.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
Originalpmac! Thank you. I was inspired by this 19th century photo of the patriotic Judge Winchell, on some Sierra summit, but I forgot a flag.

Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 01:57pm PT
just like you sir are bothered by liberals. See how it works? neener neener neener. That is the level of your discourse.

The problem with your observation is that I don't air political grievances here. All I do is point out the inconsistencies and hypocrisy of liberals who, for whatever reason, feel compelled to rant here ad nauseam. And oh there is hypocrisy-a-plenty! Yes, I understand why it annoys you. Oh well.

Now, when you call an entire group of people idiots, morons, imbeciles, etc.--as liberals here are fond of doing--and claim intellectual superiority even as you ignore the most basic elements of the Style Guide (choose your favorite), well, that opens up a whole new set of problems IMO.

Still, I'm sure you're all very nice people in real life. ;-)
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 02:01pm PT
I hate Prius people!

I'm a tree-hugging, gun-toting, Eisenhower Republican.

Fritz, I stand corrected on this. I too long for the days when Republicans were greener.

Now, please post up a photo of your Nissan Leaf! :-)
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 27, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
overturn bedrock decisions such as Citizens United

Bedrock decisions? Maybe, after all, corporations are people, my friend.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jul 27, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
“Trump has spent 123 days golfing, or 1/5 of his term, at a cost to taxpayers of $72,181,957 – and still hasn’t visited troops in a war zone.”

— VoteVets, July 23, 2018
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 27, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
Finally someone pointed out the accuracy of my sarcastic remark about the economy.

Thanks for that.
John M

climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 03:36pm PT
All I do is point out the inconsistencies and hypocrisy of liberals who, for whatever reason, feel compelled to rant here ad nauseam.

if only that were "all" that you were doing. You certainly think very highly of yourself.

Now, when you call an entire group of people idiots, morons, imbeciles, etc.--as liberals here are fond of doing--and claim intellectual superiority even as you ignore the most basic elements of the Style Guide (choose your favorite), well, that opens up a whole new set of problems IMO.

you use the same broad brush, so I can't see how you are any better then those you complain about.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Jul 27, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
How can you say Trump is "not good"? What is the basis for this?

This from CNBC:

"Donald Trump lifted the Dow Jones industrial average in his first year in office more than any other president since Franklin Roosevelt.

The Dow has surged more than 31 percent since Trump's inauguration on Jan. 20, 2017. That marks the index's best performance during a president's first year since Roosevelt."

Have I missed something? Been away a lot climbing and fishing and stuff, honestly haven't been following the news at all.....

I kind of like Trump, actually. Tired of all the "politician" types. He is a refreshing change. Strange, but refreshing.

And even you left-wing liberal Democrat types have to agree that ANYONE is better than that horrific woman Hillary.

I named my haulbag Hillary, by the way.

Happy Friday from the Great White North.
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Jul 27, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
You can't divorce the economy from the debt. If I just gave you a million dollars, you would be a million dollars richer. Good for you! If that came at the cost of increasing the debt for everybody else, that would be good for you but bad for everyone else.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 27, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
Trump should deploy marines in sanctuary cities and arrest all the politicians the are interfering in immigration law.

That would be prohibited by the Posse Comitatus Act.

That's going to increase U.S. wages when the scofflaws start to head south.

Which is why nothing has ever or will ever be done about illegal immigrants.

and BTW:


Even the crankiest of Democrats will have to admit that 4.1% GDP growth is good news. Faster growth is a tonic for much of what ails this country — it can help reduce the budget deficit (that is, if Republicans ever stop cutting taxes), shore up Social Security and Medicare, narrow income inequality and expand opportunity. It’s all good!

But here are a few other GDP numbers worth remembering: 4.6%, 4.9% and 5.1%. Those were the growth rates notched during President Obama’s tenure (in late 2011, the third quarter of 2014 and the second quarter of 2014, respectively). And no one’s celebrating how great the economy was in the Obama years.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-enter-the-fray-some-perspective-to-go-with-today-s-gdp-1532702584-htmlstory.html
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
Faster growth is a tonic for much of what ails this country

True if some of the money fell into the hands of workers/consumers, rather than fat cats.

Where are Romney's and the OrangeClown's tax returns?

Mueller already has read them, can't wait for one of these other suits to force them out of the closet.





zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
Only one problem, nothing he ever says is true.

Trump suggests economy could grow at 8 or 9 percent if he cuts the trade deficit
President Donald Trump told talk show host Sean Hannity that he could imagine the economy growing at eight or nine percent on Friday — just hours after the Bureau of Economic Analysis showed that the GDP rose 4.1 percent in the second quarter. The claim is far higher than economists predict.
The president said that the gains could come from cutting the nation's trade deficit "in half."
"I look forward to seeing next quarter … I think the 4.1 is just a stepping stone," Trump said.

Stripping out trade and inventory effects, final sales to domestic purchasers grew at a 3.9% annual rate, driven by a 4% increase in consumer spending. But these measures of underlying demand also might be slightly misleading as they reflect a catch-up from the first quarter. Final demand grew by 1.9% and consumer spending grew at an annual rate of just 0.5% in the first quarter, in part due to issues like harsh winter weather.

For now, the best thing to do is to look at the underlying trend in final demand. It is up 2.9% from a year earlier, which is better than the 2.4% this time last year, as well as the 2.3% rate it has averaged since the recession ended in 2009. That hardly counts as a boom, but it indicates the economy has gained a bit of momentum that ought to carry through the year.
spectreman

Trad climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 05:31pm PT


zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 05:47pm PT
Obama is no longer president. Trump is. Stop trying to cherry pick stats.

The numbers for everybody are here as I posted them back a ways


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:13pm PT
Obama is the Gold Standard of Presidents

Yeah, especially compared to those losers like Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt (both), and Clinton.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 27, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
Trump has touted his zero-tolerance illegal immigration policy as a way of decreasing crimes such as murder and rape—despite the utterly annoying fact that crime rates are at historic lows and some obnoxiously inconvenient studies that show that immigrants (illegal or otherwise) commit fewer crimes than the rest of us.

But the writer in the article linked below may have hit upon a solution based on a somewhat conservative(!) Saudi model (albeit one that may not be popular within the sausagefest known as the SuperTopo forum) that could potentially lower the overall crime rate to levels undreamt of in even Jeff Beauregard Sessions wettest elven dreams.

https://www.alternet.org/election-2016/modest-proposal-trump-has-it-all-wrong-prevent-crime-we-need-do-some-exteme-vetting
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
overturn bedrock decisions such as Citizens United

Bedrock decisions? Maybe, after all, corporations are people, my friend.

Of course, as explained by the great Mitt Romney:
[Click to View YouTube Video]

We probably don't reflect enough on the benevolence of modern corporations--just think of all the wonderful goods and services they produce, the employment opportunities they provide, and if we're lucky they provide some modest returns to those who risk their hard earned (or perhaps inherited, but that's irrelevant to this point) capital to fund such marvelous institutions.

Thankfully the Supreme Court recognizes that such useful organizations are in fact legally "people," entitled to full protections under the law. (But that doesn't mean they should pay taxes like natural born humans--that would be a form of double taxation, as the owners of the corporations pay taxes on dividends and capital gains, so it's not quite true that corporations are exactly the same as humans in every respect.)
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
Instead of listening to the blathering pseudo-analysis of some anonymous idiot who chose the avatar “blah blah,” I suggest you watch “The Corporation” if you haven’t yet, and watch it again if you have.

There is a sequel coming soon!

http://thecorporation.com/film/about-film
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 27, 2018 - 07:29pm PT
Re blah blah: do what I do ignore. First, the guy lies about being a lawyer. Second, when he holds up Heller and Citizen's United as shining examples of jurisprudence, you know he doesn't know WTF he's talking about.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
Trump has touted his zero-tolerance illegal immigration policy as a way of decreasing crimes such as murder and rape—despite the utterly annoying fact that crime rates are at historic lows and some obnoxiously inconvenient studies that show that immigrants (illegal or otherwise) commit fewer crimes than the rest of us.

That's a neat apples/oranges trick you just pulled. Maybe you can dig up a citation re crime rate for illegals only? Never mind they're already committing a crime by being here--hence the word illegal. For this exercise, we'll give that one a pass.

So, crime rates for people in the U.S. illegally vs citizens and immigrants here legally. (A non alt-left website preferred.) Good luck.

Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
Instead of listening to the blathering pseudo-analysis of some anonymous idiot who chose the avatar “blah blah,” I suggest you watch “The Corporation” if you haven’t yet, and watch it again if you have.

I'll be sure to watch The Prize, Fast Food Nation, Countdown to Zero, Motorcycle Diaries, Bowling for Columbine and give old Upton Sinclair's The Jungle a reread when I'm done.

Libs are such drones. :rolleyes:
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:23pm PT
Instead of listening to the blathering pseudo-analysis of some anonymous idiot who chose the avatar “blah blah,”

"blahblah" is not an avatar, it's a screen name. You sure you're qualified to be a substitute teacher?

Re blah blah: do what I do ignore. First, the guy lies about being a lawyer. Second, when he holds up Heller and Citizen's United as shining examples of jurisprudence, you know he doesn't know WTF he's talking about.

Ignoring is fine (but, hmmm, are you in fact ignoring, when you just responded substantively to my post? And are you sure that apostrophe belongs in Citizens?).

Defamation is a little less fine: please do tell when I've ever lied about being a lawyer.
Or admit you're a liar yourself by making a false accusation?

Whether I'm a lawyer is very easy to prove. If you explain your false accusation and there's a reasonable explanation, that's fine, just go back to your version of "ignoring" and we'll move on. Perhaps I punked you a bit by pretending a to be non-lawyer in response to your nonsense, who knows. But if you continue with your nonsense and false accusations, you'll sound like more of a fool than usual, although I'm not sure that's much of a deterrent.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
So, crime rates for people in the U.S. illegally vs citizens and immigrants here legally. (A non alt-left website preferred.) Good luck.

Google is Your Friend (Click here)

Trump started this debate, and as usual he was lying, nothing new.

How about the Cato Institute study, or are Libertarians to liberal for your taste?

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/

Alex Nowrasteh, with the libertarian Cato Institute, analyzed the Texas data to make a comparison of immigrants in the country illegally and native-born residents. In a recent post he noted that in 2015 Texas police made 815,689 arrests of native-born Americans, 37,776 arrests of immigrants in the country illegally and 20,323 arrests of legal immigrants. Given the relative populations for each group, he wrote, “The arrest rate for illegal immigrants was 40 percent below that of native-born Americans.”

In addition, he wrote, the homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was “about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate.”

Other research from the Cato Institute attempted to provide national estimates. A study published on June 4 used data from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey for 2016 and applied statistical modeling to estimate the number of incarcerated immigrants in the country illegally. It filtered the data using characteristics correlated with being an immigrant in the country illegally, such as whether someone is a noncitizen but has not served in the military or received Social Security income. The research concluded: “Illegal immigrants are 47 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives.” (And legal immigrants are even less likely to be in jail or prison.)

Cato, June 4: If native-born Americans were incarcerated at the same rate as illegal immigrants, about 930,000 fewer natives would be incarcerated. Conversely, if natives were incarcerated at the same rate as legal immigrants, about 1.5 million fewer natives would be in adult correctional facilities.

Another study, “Does Undocumented Immigration Increase Violent Crime?,” which was published in the journal Criminology in March, looked at the influx of undocumented immigrants into communities in recent decades and concluded, “Increased concentrations of undocumented immigrants are associated with statistically significant decreases in violent crime.”

One of the study’s authors, Michael Light, a professor of sociology and Chicano/Latino studies at the University of Wisconsin, told us via email that the president is conflating two different issues and misusing statistics.

“The claim that immigrants are less crime prone refers exactly to the type of findings [from his study and the one from Cato]: that the rate of crime within the immigrant community is lower than the rate of crime among U.S. citizens. OR, that communities with high levels of immigrants tend to have lower crime rates than communities with fewer immigrants,” Light said. “And those statements are not contradicted by stating the number of offenses committed by immigrants (as the President did).”

“Imagine I were to claim that women are less violent than men, which is as close to a social fact that we have in criminology,” Light said. “And one were to reply saying that this isn’t true because in 2015 over 78,000 women were arrested for violent crimes, and nearly 1,000 were arrested for homicide. Those statistics in no way contradict the original statement that men tend to be more violent.”

Research published in Social Science Quarterly in 2016 looked at rates of violent crime and drug arrests by state for 2012 to 2014 and compared them with statistics on the foreign‐born and Mexican nationals living in the United States, as well as estimates of the undocumented foreign and undocumented Mexican population by state. The study found no association between immigrant population size and increased violent crime, though it found a “small but significant association between undocumented immigrant populations and drug-related arrests.”

Interestingly, a Pew Research Center report in 2013 found that crime rates rise among second-generation immigrants, more closely mirroring the rates of other native-born residents. Some researchers say this is a result of assimilation and simply “catching-up” to their peers.

Numerous other studies have found that immigrants overall — including those with legal status — do not commit crimes at a higher rate than non-immigrants, and that higher concentrations of immigrants do not lead to higher rates of violent crime. A recap of the literature on this topic can be found here. But those studies don’t look specifically at illegal immigration.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
Why don't the both of you state your name and credentials ?

I have posted my name on ST--in some ways I regret it as I've been cyberstalked in small ways at least (people posting things about me that I've never posted, but that would be easy to find by Googling). Armed with my name and where I live (Boulder, CO), it should take about 30 seconds to see if I'm a lawyer.

Have no idea if "Fat Dad" has posted his name and I don't really care. I'd guess he is a lawyer, but that's not exactly something to brag about!
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2018 - 08:47pm PT
BlahBlah states:

We probably don't reflect enough on the benevolence of modern corporations--

Doeuude! What planet do you live on?

I won't cite examples, since all of us here, except you, know examples of modern corporations, causing great damage to the environment, &/or humans.

Publicly-held corporations are mandated by law to maximize returns to their shareholders. They are not mandated to be benevolent.

Some corporations may try to be benevolent, but I doubt if that word appears in very many corporate “mission statements.”
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 27, 2018 - 08:48pm PT
xcon...was the pitch fork sprayed with WD-40...?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 27, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
Uh oh. The fake lawyer is threatening me with defamation for pointing out something that he's failed to deny. Better look up the elements for defamation. Or, better yet, don't pose as someone you're not.

I thought the "benevolence of corporations" was a howler as well. But then any one who stills supports Trump occupies their own reality.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 27, 2018 - 09:50pm PT
ATG...blah blah blah is his real name....
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
Takes even less than 30 seconds to see that having obtained a law license doesn't mean much


“Just so we all know, by far the easiest bar is Wisconsin’s bar, provided you went to law school in the state,” lawschooli said. “Wisconsin has a “diploma privilege” such that these students don’t even have to take the bar to pass and become full lawyers!”



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 27, 2018 - 10:04pm PT
Rudolph giulianni...Same guy that roasted all those new york firemen in the WTC by swinging the cell phone deal...?
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 27, 2018 - 10:06pm PT
Let’s all post and weaponize each other’s typos . . .

. . . by pretending a to be non-lawyer. . .


Hey blah blah, how often do judges and juries laugh your weak and inarticulate arguments out of court?

edit—
That is what’s called a loaded question, in case they didn’t teach you that at Thomas M. Cooley.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 27, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
Jim...are you a lawyer too....?
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jul 27, 2018 - 10:12pm PT
How about the Cato Institute study, or are Libertarians to liberal for your taste?

Jon Beck, looks interesting--although the analysis is Annenberg Foundation and not CATO. Looks like there is a problem with data since illegals tend to under report. I'll give both a read later plus FBI stats with an open mind. Thanks for the post.

Right now I'm using my laptop for a bit of astro photography (with very limited success) as Saturn's rings are spectacular and Mars is coming up soon. Friggin' moon is too damn bright!
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 27, 2018 - 10:19pm PT
Don’t forget the Delta Aquariids
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 27, 2018 - 10:30pm PT
right on Jim...I got beat up by the salesians for a year...they didn't like smart-asses... and i drove by goznaga a few times on my way to the pan handle of idaho...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 27, 2018 - 10:56pm PT
Uh oh. The fake lawyer is threatening me with defamation for pointing out something that he's failed to deny. Better look up the elements for defamation. Or, better yet, don't pose as someone you're not.

The clown (who may or may not be a lawyer) doubles down on stupid.

The only threat I've made is to expose you as some combination of a liar and idiot for calling me a "fake lawyer."

Do you have evidence for you accusations? Or is making up defamatory lies your stock in trade?

(I'd be mildly interested in hearing how calling someone a "fake lawyer" who is in fact a lawyer could be non-defamatory, but only from someone with an at least semi-functioning brain, which excludes "Fad Dad." I suppose his "defense" may be that in fact he has no idea whether I'm lawyer. But then why would he call me a fake lawyer? And why would he make the accusations without spending the moment it would take to determine if I'm a lawyer? Limited intellect? Maliciousness? Likely a combination.)

Keep up with the lies, you're creating quite an entertaining record.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 27, 2018 - 11:08pm PT
Do you have evidence for you accusations?

whether I'm lawyer.

I’ll have to remember to avoid Blah Blah Esq. if I’m in Boulder and need any legal documents drafted.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 07:06am PT
Along with the Bible, mandatory reading for the blunt instruments of the Amerigarchs.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 08:19am PT
^^^^^^ +1

The whole state of Illinois is the next Puerto Rico.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2018 - 08:24am PT
Pass the Pitons Pete weighed in pro Trump late afternoon yesterday, but I was at a Friday night Crab-Boil, so I missed this Trumpian tidbit.

"Donald Trump lifted the Dow Jones industrial average in his first year in office more than any other president since Franklin Roosevelt.

The Dow has surged more than 31 percent since Trump's inauguration on Jan. 20, 2017. That marks the index's best performance during a president's first year since Roosevelt."

I must confess to not following the Dow Jones Industrial Index, since the S & P 500 Index is a much more accurate read on how the markets are doing.

On the below chart, Trump notches a nice gain in 2017, his first year as President.

Please note the gains President Obama had in the first year of his two terms as President.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2018 - 08:48am PT
ATG! Per your post:
FRITZY;
Name one major city governed by Democrats that is not if fiscal crisis over public pensions.

I double dog dare you.


Not a subject I'm knowledgeable about, & I'm not your dog.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jul 28, 2018 - 08:57am PT
Take a look at the first 7 cities on this list. The first 6 are in California, and the 7th is Boston.


http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2017/01/09/How-Strong-Are-Your-Citys-Finances-116-US-Cities-Ranked
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 28, 2018 - 09:00am PT
Not a subject I'm knowledgeable about, & I'm not your dog.


Now we are down to dog shaming. You should check your white privlage
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 09:14am PT
Per The Fiscal Times chart on factors used to rank the cities:
2. the ratio of its long term obligations (including OPEB but excluding pensions) to total government-wide revenues (30 percent weighting)

Why are pension obligations excluded?
Aren't pension obligations the major problem in most state and city budgets?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 28, 2018 - 09:27am PT
ATG....I'm guessing Irvine and HB have stable tax bases due to higher income earners via property taxes...I think financial solvency probably has more to do with a city's finance director than political affiliation...? Yes , no...?
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 28, 2018 - 09:40am PT
Hey ATG, look at all the red states with pensions funded less than or same as liberal California.

What's the deal ATG?

https://graphics.wsj.com/table/Connecticut_102015

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
North Dakota
Oklahoma
South Carolina
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jul 28, 2018 - 09:41am PT
Why are pension obligations excluded?
Aren't pension obligations the major problem in most state and city budgets?
I am guessing because they are included in the next line so it would be counted twice? But I'd have to sit and stare for a while to fully understand the numbers and I'm going climbing. :-)
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Jul 28, 2018 - 09:50am PT
If causality were linked to national leadership, then investment firms would have figured it out decades ago. No matter who's in the Oval Office, the market exhibits a random walk. There's tons of research that continues to prove that no one really has control or much influence. If anything, it might be rumor that influences the market more than facts. As they say, "buy the gossip and sell the news."

Me, I just buy the market and save my sanity and costs.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 11:08am PT
This more or less shows a link to leadership;

http://www.atimes.com/article/trumps-economic-nationalism-is-repelling-foreign-investment/
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 11:17am PT
*Interesting article
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 28, 2018 - 12:02pm PT
Arizona is now a liberal state.

ATG is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Arizona guv, house senate, controlled by repubs.

I see you decided not to discuss the other red states with pension problems.

Good for you, ATG!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
On the Fiscal Times Chart:
I am guessing because they are included in the next line so it would be counted twice? But I'd have to sit and stare for a while to fully understand the numbers and I'm going climbing. :-)

The next line measures the ratio of pension contributions to government revenue, but does not address pension obligations. All cities and states are looking good if pension obligations are somehow hidden.
Have fun climbing
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 12:12pm PT
Like ALL the red states with pension problems even add up to just Illinois, New York, and California combined?
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 28, 2018 - 12:12pm PT
Always the libs fault. Nice

The libs made all those conservative states underfunded.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
ATG has totally impressed me with his lack of logic. Thank you sir, for demonstrating, yet again, how truly nuts your are.

I said:
ATG! Per your post:
FRITZY;
Name one major city governed by Democrats that is not if fiscal crisis over public pensions.
I double dog dare you.

Not a subject I'm knowledgeable about, & I'm not your dog.

I thought that was an honest reply, but ATG with a supreme burst of Trumpian logic, proclaims my reply proves that both I & all liberals are generally ignorant. Proof positive that he is the ignorant one in this discussion.

ATG reply:
^ proof Fritzy, that general ignorance is a requirement to be a liberal.

You guys can't run on what you will do when elected.

You can't name one city ran by liberals that is not in fiscal crisis.

You have a smug superiority complex at the same time admitting you don't know.


That ladies, is a perfect democrat.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 28, 2018 - 12:36pm PT
ATG has totally impressed me with his lack of logic.

He isn't worried about what you think about him. He isn't your dog...
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 28, 2018 - 01:58pm PT
Get a room you two.

What do you think this is, the church of latter day mutual ball cuppers?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 28, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
the supreme court ruling on union dues is a feeble attempt by the new corporate friendly supreme court to undermine unions...It's not going to work...The only thing that will break up unions is private sector jobs that pay better than union jobs...think that will ever happen...? LMAO...Just about every move Trump has made puts the middle class at a disadvantage...What happened to his better health care plan...? He doesn't have one...He's a lying sack of sh--
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
Lots of perspective out there on whether Trump is "winning" with the economy. We'll see:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/25/for-the-last-time-trump-inherited-a-good-economy-and-he-hasnt-made-it-better
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 28, 2018 - 02:29pm PT
Hey ATG, San Diego has one of the worst pension problems in America, was 2 billion in the hole if I recall correctly. And which Republican actively worked to cover it up, yes Republican Mayor Dick Murphy.

And it was a Libtard that solved California's multi-billion dollar budget crisis.

Plenty of blame to go around both parties, I think it is disingenuous to blame one party.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2018 - 02:29pm PT
The Washington Post has an alarming article titled:

The junk debt that tanked the economy? It's back in a big way.
Loans to highly indebted businesses — that are packaged into securities — are up 38 percent this year. These securities are known as “collateralized loan obligations,” or CLOs. And guess what, Trump's latest Supreme Court Justice pick, Brett M. Kavanaugh, got to rule in favor of more lax regulations on CLOs.

Read the article here, or my highlights below:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-junk-debt-that-tanked-the-economy-its-back-in-a-big-way/ar-BBL9ef2

Like most people, you probably assume that the level of lending done by banks at any moment is largely driven by how much demand there is from borrowers. But in the world of modern finance, that’s only part of the story. For just as important is the level of demand from investors — pension funds, hedge funds, mutual funds, sovereign wealth funds and insurance companies — to buy the loans that banks make. Indeed, there are times when there’s so much demand for loans from investors and the profit from selling them is so lucrative that bankers are only too happy to go out and make bigger and riskier loans than they would if they were keeping them on their own books.

Now it is happening again, as investors and money managers scramble to buy floating-rate debt — debt offering interest payments that will increase as global interest rates rise, as they are expected to over the next few years. A big new source of floating-rate credit is the market for “leveraged loans” — loans to highly indebted businesses — that are packaged into securities known as “collateralized loan obligations,” or CLOs. Because the market seems to have an insatiable appetite for CLOs, leveraged lending and CLO issuance through the first half of the year are already up 38 percent over last year’s near-record levels.

Credit-rating companies such as Standard & Poor’s and Moody’s have recently warned that this surge in corporate borrowing and lending has led to a noticeable decline in the quality of the loans. The borrowers have lower credit ratings. The loans contain fewer of the standard conditions that are meant to protect lenders. And the rating companies calculate that lenders should expect to recover less of their money if the borrowers default or go into bankruptcy.

For the most part, however, these warnings have gone unheeded. Although some sophisticated investors have begun to pull back from the CLO market, they have been replaced by retail investors seeking higher yields who have flocked to mutual funds and exchange-traded funds that specialize in CLO debt.

Earlier this year, after complaints from banks and dealmakers reached sympathetic ears in the Trump administration, the newly installed chairman of the Federal Reserve and the Comptroller of the Currency Office declared that previous “guidance” against lending to companies whose debt exceeded six times their annual cash flow should not be taken as a hard and fast rule.

Regulators later explained that the announcement was not meant to lower lending standards but rather to emphasize that multiple factors would be used by bank examiners in assessing loans. More broadly, their view is that because banks are now so much better capitalized, with less leveraged and less reliance on short-term funding, they will be able to survive a serious market correction, as demonstrated by recent “stress tests” in which their exposure to leveraged loans was factored in.

Whether intended or not, however, the market read the regulators’ announcement not only as a green light to the banks to step up their leveraged lending but also as an indication that regulators would be more responsive to industry pressure than during the Obama years.

The CLO market got an even bigger boost this year when an appeals court in Washington struck down a regulation issued under the Dodd-Frank financial regulation law that required all securitizers — the firms that bundle loans of any kind and sell pieces of the packages to investors — to retain 5 percent of a deal. The regulation’s rationale was that if the securitizers had “skin in the game,” they wouldn’t have an incentive to make or buy questionable loans and peddle them to unsuspecting investors. For Dodd-Frank’s authors, this was a central feature of the architecture of financial reform.

When the risk retention rules were finally announced, however, the association representing independent CLO managers — those not associated with big banks — sued to block it, arguing the law did not apply to them because they never take ownership of the loans, so there is nothing for them to “retain.” Instead, these managers raise money from investors through an independent, legal entity known as a special purpose vehicle and then direct the SPV to use that money to buy the loans on the open market. A district judge saw through the ruse and dismissed the suit, but in February, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit bought the industry argument hook, line and sinker.

The appeals court opinion is a model of legal and etymological hairsplitting by activist, conservative judges who were clearly looking for a way to ignore the explicit intent of Congress, which was to make risk retention a feature of all loan-backed securities, no matter who made the original loan.

In fact, the CLO managers had asked the House Financial Services Committee to include a specific exemption for them in the law, citing the financial burden it would place on smaller securitizers. They also argued that the standard CLO fee structure, which provided bonus payments if investors were paid in full, was the equivalent of their having “skin in the game.”

The legislators, however, were not receptive to those arguments.
“The basic idea was to cover all securitizations, so we used very broad language,” Lawranne Stewart, then assistant chief counsel to the committee, recalled. “In fact, the language in the bill generally was so broad that we were criticized for overreaching. . . . We told [the CLO managers] that we would leave it to the regulators to deal with the question of who did and did not deserve an exception.”

Regulators, however, were also reluctant to create an exception. As they warned the appeals court in their briefs, if independent CLO managers were exempted from risk retention, it would create a giant loophole for any managers using the same method and structure to securitize any type of loans. Those who didn’t would be at a serious competitive disadvantage.
Although none of the three judges had spent a day working on Wall Street, they nonetheless dismissed the warnings of agency experts and in their opinion “provided a road map for securitizers of all sorts to avoid risk retention,” according to Michael Barr, a professor of law and public policy at the University of Michigan who served as point man on the financial reform effort for the Treasury in the Obama administration. As a result, Barr said, we “have now re-created the condition that led to the last crisis by making it easier to aggregate loans that are not good for investors.”

The three judges who signed on to that opinion were all appointed by Republican presidents, all have a long track record of skepticism toward regulation and regulators, and all have a long association with the conservative Federalist Society. Only one of them, however — Brett M. Kavanaugh — was just nominated by President Trump to be a Supreme Court justice.

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 04:11pm PT
After the econmy tanks, ATG will blame Obama.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 04:31pm PT
What's orange to do when in NY? It's said he watches TV 8 hours a day.




ALBANY, New York (WABC) -- New York announced Friday that Charter Communications, Inc., doing business as Spectrum, is no longer permitted to serve customers in the state.

Regulators said that Spectrum, the largest cable provider in New York, failed to comply with several conditions mandated when the state approved Charter's 2016 merger with Time Warner Cable, Inc.

Spectrum reportedly failed to meet deadlines, attempted to skirt obligations to serve rural communities and used unsafe practices in the field.

As a result, the New York State Public Service Commission revoked the approval of the merger.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 28, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
I’ll have to remember to avoid Blah Blah Esq. if I’m in Boulder and need any legal documents drafted.

And if I need to repeat 7th grade, I'll keep my eyes open for other substitute teachers :)
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 28, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
heye blah,
whats my next click if im looking for climbs I hiked to after parking at the atmospheric research center place?

Ummm, can you repeat the question?
Assuming you mean NCAR, it provides good access to the central Flatirons, Fern Canyon etc. Are you trying to find the name of a climb you did or recommendations for climbs or something else?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 28, 2018 - 05:40pm PT
Fritz, rather an alarmist article and somewhat typical for msn. CLO’s aren’t anywhere close to being the danger that article would have us believe. According to Bloomberg:

Analysts see $90 billion to a high of $125 billion in new CLO issuance for 2018. If bullish sentiment prevails, the market will test, and may break the $124 billion record for issuance set in 2014.

Resets are expected to increase while refinancing volume may decrease since most vintage CLOs that fell under the Crescent-letter risk-retention exception have already been refinanced. An estimated $60 billion to $70 billion of CLO resets, similar to last year’s supply, are seen for 2018.

Compare that to the total US mortgage loans of $14.5 TRILLION! CLO’s are chump change! And that article also implies the danger posed to mutual funds held by you and me. Without doing any research I would bet a sizeable amount that very few Vanguard funds have more than a couple of percentage points of exposure to corporate CLO’s. On the other hand Citigroup, which you and I ‘own’, is rather disproportionately exposed thru its 21% share of CLO resets. But I think the danger is immensely less than what it was leading up to the housing loan crisis because corporations aren’t gonna walk away from a house they’ve defaulted on.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 05:46pm PT
fukkin' A bitches. Why don't all the Trum_pits and Trump himself post their true net worth here.

You can't afford to pay, you don't deserve to play, eh?

[Click to View YouTube Video]

And by the way, how much money did orange get from Russia.

Wouldn't you think he would be happy to demonstrate how rich he really is?


blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 28, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
xCon, the sport climb was likely Touch Monkey, and the TR was on Square Rock. Good descriptions are on Mountain Project:
https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105755617/touch-monkey
https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105744687/square-rock

Huge amount of climbing in the Flatirons of course, with more good climbs still going in
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 28, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
blatz blatz

Here's to the easiest bar exam in the country and/or hiring someone to take the test for ya

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 28, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
xCon, it's a great place, beautiful with good climbs, glad you got to enjoy it. I live about 10 mins from NCAR, I should consider myself lucky and get over the haters we sometimes get here.

zBrown-- just sayin' I'm a credentialed lawyer (not that it's anything to brag about, and as Lennox noted, you may want to avoid to avoid my services!) As to how I got that credential, you have an interesting theory, but let me also note it's a multiple choice test (at least 1/2 of it, when I took it), and sometimes it's your lucky day!
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2018 - 07:39pm PT
Reilly! I appreciate your wisdom on my post of the alarmist article on CLO's. It was from the Washington Post, but MSN posted the one I linked to.

Fritz, rather an alarmist article and somewhat typical for msn. CLO’s aren’t anywhere close to being the danger that article would have us believe.


CLO's are just another "dog-turd", in the supposed chocolate box of risky investments, that Trump & his lackeys have made easier for corporate suckers to buy.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 29, 2018 - 08:36am PT
[Following the Microsoft model] About half of Google’s workers are contractors who don’t receive the same benefits as direct employees

Like other firms, Google relies on outsourcing operations in Southeast Asia -- rows of office workers in India and other countries that label mapping data and handle other relatively simple computing work. But Google also hires highly educated contractors in its backyard. Some TVCs arrive with advanced technical degrees and years of experience, working on niche efforts like renewable energy and sensor design.

The line between TVCs and full-timers is clear. One 2016 TVC employment contract from Zenith Talent Corp., a recruiting agency, states that TVCs “will not be entitled to any compensation, options, stock, insurance or other rights or benefits accorded to employees of Google.” The terms hold even if a court later determines the worker was legally a Google employee. Zenith did not respond to requests for comment.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 29, 2018 - 09:04am PT
Fritz, CLO’s are no riskier than plain vanilla corporate ‘junk’ bonds which I’ve made good money on. Corporations are much more incentivized to make them good than individuals with risky mortgages. Vanguard obviously agrees which is why they offer ‘junk’ bond funds.

THIS JUST IN:

U.S. Treasury's Mnuchin says he sees at least 3 percent growth for next 4-5 years

That should get us another 4 years of greatness, eh? 😉
FWIW, I’m seriously considering moving to either England, Norway, or Sweden. As you might suspect I am a big fan of the much misunderstood Adam Smith. A telling quote of his I am finding most prescient:

“The rate of profit...is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin.”
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 29, 2018 - 11:02am PT
^^^
You're either a coward or a racist. If brown people bother you that much (and you believe CA is a failing state anyways) move to Kansas.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 29, 2018 - 11:19am PT
Dude’s a fascist. Supports authoritiaranism (see post a few pages back about sending in military to sanctuary cities), racism (see birther rants) and xenophobia (see post above, and others). It’s pointless discussing anything with him..
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 29, 2018 - 11:48am PT
ATG

Big Wall climber
Santee, CA
They don't call it Klantee or Santucky for nothing....
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
A lot of pro-business conservative magazines are saying unkind things about “TRUMP’S TRADE WAR.”

Like the July 27th issue of Forbes:

U.S. Businesses Are Beginning To Pay The Price For Trump's Trade War

Plenty of experts agree that trade warfare is a bad idea. And still, from a supply chain management perspective, President Trump’s flailing maneuvers on global trade are probably causing more trouble than even most detractors realize. Initial moves to put tariffs on aluminum and steel are beginning to bite with negative earnings impacts for General Motors, Whirlpool and Ford. At the same time fears of Chinese retaliation have hurt prices for soybeans and pork with farmers already suffering.
So far these are the obvious problems. Unfortunately, it could get much worse.



Trump likes to tout the healthy stock market as evidence that he’s doing the right things. The Dow Jones Industrial Index is up 26.5% since his inauguration, which is great. Over the exact same period after Obama’s inauguration however, it was up by 30.8%. It went on to record a 181% gain during Obama’s free-trade presidency.
Investors saw money in the Trump tax cut, but have been much less enthusiastic since talk shifted to trade. Most are betting that it’s all bluster and won’t matter in the end. What they may be missing is how far even that bluster ripples back into the global supply chain. The trouble has just begun.

More of the article here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinomarah/2018/07/27/trump-on-trade-all-the-wrong-moves/#2fa216f62a80



It was noted up-thread that with Trump's Tariffs, the price of a new U.S. made Ford F-150 could increase by $7,000.

With that increase in mind & my 2013 Toyota 4-Runner getting close to 100,000 miles, I researched what could happen to Japanese import auto prices.

I found a July 5 article in AutoWeek that summed up the proposed Tariffs effects with this:

"The tariffs on vehicle imports alone would increase the average price of cars generally, while diminishing consumer choice," JAMA (Japanese Auto Manufacturers Association) said. "This represents harm to all U.S. consumers, including families and companies that use automobiles in or for their business operations.

A study by the National Taxpayers Union Foundation estimates that prices for cars built in the United States could increase by an average of at least $1,262 per vehicle and the average price of imported cars would increase by $4,205 per vehicle. Yet another study estimates that the price of an imported $30,000 car would increase by about $6,400."
Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/heres-how-japanese-automakers-could-be-affected-tariffs#ixzz5MfdNowb9


Interestingly to me, the MSRP of a new Toyota 4-Runner SR5 has only increased $1,140.00 or 3.13% since May of 2013. Obviously, Trump's proposed auto Tariff would result in an ugly price jump.

I'm buying my new 4-Runner on Monday.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jul 29, 2018 - 02:11pm PT
" This shows what would happen if a major player suddenly dumped U.S. bonds; essentially nothing. "

Russia dumped 84% of their holdings equaling about 81 billion dollars in treasury securities likely because they are worried about sanctions.

$96 billion in treasury securities doesn’t even make it into the top 15 in the list linked below.

http://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

Do you think that if the real “major player” got fed up with the tariff bullshit and started dumping chunks of its $1.18 trillion in holdings that “essentially nothing” would happen?

In three years, in the first year of his second term, he will go bigly on healthcare and universal income.

That is your prediction, but I think it is more likely that in 3 years Trump will be sharing a studio apartment in Moscow with Snowden or a cell with junior.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 29, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, it is illegal for Federal employees to use their official positions to promote private business interests. It's called graft and corruption. It is commonly seen in Third-World nations, and, now, during the Trump Presidency.

Trump's hubris is of the greatest benefit to the American people. He doesn't hesitate to openly, brazenly and arrogantly flaunt laws that could lead to his imprisonment. When Trump is brought before Congress to answer for his crimes, the sheer breadth and scope of his malfeasance will ensure that he is removed from office. Whether the House brings 66, 101, or 409 Articles of Impeachment, it will only require one conviction in the Senate to get rid of him.









During the 2016 campaign, Trump said (to minority voters) "Vote for me. What's the worst that can happen?"

Now, Trump has invoked National Security to justify huge import tariffs. What's the worst that can happen?


Trump has been willing and eager, his entire life, to experiment and gamble with other people's money, just to see what happens. Trump has repeatedly boasted about how well he, personally, has done in bankruptcy court. He has called himself the "King of Debt" (debt = other people's money). Trump's business methodology typically comprised using other people's money for his schemes, skimming as much as he could for himself, up front in the form of fees, and then leaving banks and investors holding worthless stock certificates, failed projects and heavy debts.


Trump's self-delusional "winning streak" of disastrous business experiments (too many to list here) is motivating him to experiment and gamble, on a global scale, using only "touch and feel" to see what will happen. Astonishingly, educated and experienced lawmakers in Congress are willing to allow Trump to perform his haphazard economic experiments, as if they, too, are curious to find out, "What's the worst that can happen?"



Other world leaders are not impressed with Trump's dream-state improvisations.

The European Union Commission Chief, Jean-Claude Juncker, showed up at the White House with colorful, fourth-grade-level flash cards to teach Trump about global trade. Junker was able to placate Trump with some nebulous promises regarding soybeans and natural gas. Immediately after the meeting, Trump declared that the EU was no longer the "number one foe" of the United States, but was, again, it's greatest lover. Trump, again, declared victory over a crisis of his own making.

Trump's insanity is well recognized by EU leaders, and they are gingerly dealing with him, in the way you would with a Down-Syndrome child who had, somehow, gotten into the gun safe, and is now waving a .44 Magnum pistol around.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-juncker-trade-us-eu-trade-tariffs-white-house-meeting-flashcards-a8467051.html

https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Why-should-we-continue-these-deals-Trump-is-11267311.php



It is instructive to note that, so far, the industry that has benefited the most from Trump's economic experimentation has been the steel industry. Trump's huge tariffs on imported steel has caused domestic prices to skyrocket, and to greatly increase profits for the industry.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/29/investing/stocks-week-ahead-steel-tariffs-trade/index.html


Wilbur Ross, Secretary of Commerce, made a fortune wheeling and dealing with steel companies. He claims to have divested himself from the industry. But, his friends and family are probably profiting from his public policy decisions. And, his failure, so far, to divest himself of conflicts of interest has caused Federal ethics officials to warn him that he could face severe criminal prosecution. His divesting, so far, comprises putting his assets into a trust that his family controls and benefits from.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2018/06/18/lies-china-and-putin-solving-the-mystery-of-wilbur-ross-missing-fortune-trump-commerce-secretary-cabinet-conflicts-of-interest/



Wilbur Ross was the person who told Trump, last February, to invoke National Security, to bypass Congress, and impose tariffs on imported steel. In March, Ross said that fears of an impending trade war were "nonsense".

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/politics/wilbur-ross-steel-donald-trump-cnntv/index.html

The "nonsense" is now that Trump and Ross plan to dole out $12 billion in taxpayers' money to Midwest farmers severely affected by Trump's trade war, to ensure that they remain loyal to Trump and vote Republican in 2018.





Trump is attempting to steer the U.S. economy towards a Soviet-style command economy, with himself at the levers, deciding who wins and who loses. Trump has already engaged in selectively distributed economic favoritism to reward friends and punish enemies:

 elimination of property tax deductions for Federal tax purposes, hurting Blue States the most

 issuing import tariff waivers on an arbitrary and limited basis to political cronies

 disbursing welfare payments to Red State farmers, with very little, or nothing, for Blue State farmers


https://www.thenation.com/article/the-gop-tax-bill-was-a-deliberate-attack-on-blue-states-and-california-plans-to-fight-back/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/us/politics/trump-tariff-waivers.html

https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/California-could-see-little-of-12-billion-13105456.php?t=a0441ada52










VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Insofar as the Trump Era is Orwellian, where up is down, black is white, and 2+2=5, it could be expressed, in Doublespeak, that I am tired of winning.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 29, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
Tom, your post conveys a feeling that you have grown tired of winning. Another Trump campaign promise fullfilled.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 29, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
Good,what does that even mean right now?

Good for who?

When?

How?

Like Contractor said,”Just a canarie in a coal mine”.

All this will not end well,thanks for security.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 29, 2018 - 08:43pm PT
AB leader dies in Colorado prison making room for Trump

RICO RICO not suave

In the early 2000s, the federal government moved in on the Aryan Brotherhood. Mills became the lead defendant in a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO, indictment that sought to take down the gang. Forty members and co-conspirators were charged in 14 killings and dozens of attempted hits.

In 2006, Mills, Bingham and two others went on trial together, facing racketeering and murder charges. They were convicted largely based upon the word of an Aryan Brotherhood dropout, who admitted to carrying out a killing but took a plea deal for fewer than 10 years in prison.

Mills faced the death penalty, which required a unanimous jury vote. When jurors voted 9-3 in favor of executing him, he was spared. He spent the rest of his life locked down at the supermax facility in Colorado, confined to his cell 23 hours a day.

“Barry would not let us put on a penalty phase case,” his attorney Steward said. “His whole thing was, ‘No sniveling.'”
dirtbag

climber
Jul 29, 2018 - 09:05pm PT
For Gary (and everyone else, of course):


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/opinion/sunday/mike-pence-holy-terror.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion&action=click&contentCollection=opinion®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=7&pgtype=sectionfront


Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 29, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
35 years of supply side economics has done exactly what the designers and beneficiaries intended.

They flushed out savings, retirement, future tax revenue and even a few piggy banks out into the open where they could snatch and run.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 29, 2018 - 09:25pm PT
I think most folks are reconciled to voting trump out

It would be nice if he could still be prosecuted thereafter

Obviating the Kav crutch he's trying to provide himself

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
zBrown! Per your comments!

I think most folks are reconciled to voting trump out

It would be nice if he could still be prosecuted thereafter

I agree!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 29, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
Part 2- Currently the 1% have massed a huge percentage of the Nation's wealth in their investment portfolios and offshore accounts and we all know they don't pay taxes on those.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 29, 2018 - 10:13pm PT
With Mike Pence, at least we'd get a president who:

 Is not beholden, subservient, indebted or captive to Vladimir Putin
 Is not a raving lunatic who has no concept of what reality is
 Is not a six-time loser professing "bankruptcy equals good business"
 Is not infatuated with his own personality cult
 Is not delusional about gaining absolute power for the rest of his life
 Is not a complete embarrassment before the rest of the world

 Is an experienced politician who understands how government works
 Has at least a modicum of morality (even if it is based on religious fanaticism)

 Would very likely lose re-election in 2020

 Would only be a global embarrassment when he refuses to be in the same room as Theresa May, Angela Merkel, or the Queen
dirtbag

climber
Jul 30, 2018 - 06:18am PT
Tom—I agree.

But what a sh#t choice!!!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 30, 2018 - 06:35am PT
Moosie, you’d be surprised at how liberal I actually am. I only play a conservative here in order to get your collective blood pressure above the stagnation zone. You’d also be surprised at how conservative most Norwegians and Swedes are. They only play at being liberal. Once you get outside the few cities they’re farmers and fishermen. And England is my third choice in case I decide I can’t take the illiberal drinking laws in Norge og Sverige. Besides, there are a lotta nice Polaks in Norway - a big plus! 😉
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 30, 2018 - 07:08am PT
If you need a good laugh this morning, watch Rudy G try to explain tRump's Conflict accusations against Mueller.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 30, 2018 - 07:37am PT
They are liberal until the topic of brown people comes up.

And you’re a complete moron who has no inkling what you’re talking about.
Racial, gender, and any other metric of equality is not where they are conservative.
Spend much time in Scandinavia, braj? Yeah, didn’t think so.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 30, 2018 - 08:50am PT
Reilly....Not so sure about your assertion....My Norwegian friend has some funny Swede jokes...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 30, 2018 - 09:40am PT
So the top 1% get about 20%
The bottom 50% get about 13%

What about the other the remaining 67% and the forty-niners?

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jul 30, 2018 - 09:43am PT
With Mike Pence, at least we'd get a president who:

who is a literal bible fundamentalist Christian who will not allow himself to be in a room alone with a female other than his wife

who absolutely believes the earth is 6000 years old and was created in six days
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jul 30, 2018 - 09:57am PT

If you need a good laugh this morning, watch Rudy G try to explain tRump's Conflict accusations against Mueller.

They're saying that Rudy just admitted there was a "pre-meeting meeting," with the agenda about how to handle the "meeting meeting," and gave names of some of those attending. And that this pre-meeting meeting that Rudy has mentioned, has not been mentioned, by anyone, before.....

Hard to make these daily debacles up. Wonder how this one gets explained in the WH Alternate Facts Briefing.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 30, 2018 - 10:12am PT
The race for Virginia's Fifth Congressional District, which could boil down to...


bigfoot erotica.



https://www.vox.com/2018/7/30/17629580/riggleman-cockburn-bigfoot-erotica



Our country deserves this.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 30, 2018 - 10:30am PT
Good point Z! I'm a solid 49'r and my earnings have stayed the same although I've consistently given my employees raises. I have no stake in the markets.

My real estate holdings have increased substantially by way of some risky maneuvers or smoke and mirrors if you will.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 30, 2018 - 11:20am PT
PowerBS, at the latest tally there are 42 white supremacists in Sweden and 12 in Norway.
Try a new tactic or go buy a brain. Yes, I had a great time there re-connecting with old climbing buds. You do realize I was on the cover of Climbing Over Stockholm, right? I’ll send you an autographed copy, collect.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 30, 2018 - 11:23am PT
So no one wants to talk about Bigfoot erotica?




What the hell is wrong with you people?!?!?!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 30, 2018 - 11:31am PT
I am getting the book, a calendar would be creepy hot too.

https://www.amazon.com/s?field-keywords=bigfoot+erotica


On a weeklong outing in Mt. Hood National Forest, what begins as a flirty, fun-filled trip soon turns into a nightmare, when an ape-like creature kidnaps a group of teen girls with the purpose of procreating with them. Thus begins the erotic adventure of a lifetime, and an inconceivable love story between a young woman and her horny Sasquatch.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jul 30, 2018 - 11:36am PT
ok, so now Rudy says he has reviewed the Federal Statutes over the weekend....

and he is convinced that there actually, wait for it, is no crime at all, no "collusion" if a political candidate for President works with a foreign entity to influence an election

remember Rudy?

he is the guy who ran in the 2016 Republican Primary on the platform of 911, a noun, and a verb
dirtbag

climber
Jul 30, 2018 - 11:37am PT
Jon Beck gets the save.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 30, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
Life is not all about money, a lot of Trumps damage has nothing to do with money
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 30, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
Dirtbag, bring it!
dirtbag

climber
Jul 30, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
I was counting on your expertise, Reilly.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 30, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
TRUMP SAYS THE ECONOMY IS BOOMING

Trump claims all the credit, saying Obama's first year economy was the worst, ever.



A hypothetical town has 100 eligible wage earners.

Ten workers made $1 million this year as CEOs. They made $750,000 last year, before the big corporate tax cut.

Eighty workers made $25,000 per year as employees. They made $24,000 last year, before the big corporate tax cut.

Ten eligible workers are unemployed. Seven of them are homeless and have given up looking for real jobs.

The cost of living, especially housing, food and fuel, has risen 6%, compared to last year.



Here's how Trump reports the economy of the town:

The unemployment rate is 3%, the lowest, ever, in history.

Wages have risen, on average, 21.5%. The big tax cut is working. America is great again.

The average wage in town is $120, 000 - among the best in the nation. MAGA++.



Here's the real story:

The 10 CEO's received a 33% raise in pay. They have 29% more disposable income this year, after figuring in inflation.

The 80 employed workers received a 4% raise in pay. They have lost 2% of their spending power this year, after figuring in inflation.

83% of the town's wages are paid to 10% of its workforce.

10% of the town's workers are unproductive, and are either on welfare, or otherwise being supported by other people.

70% of the town's unemployed workers are unaccounted for by the government, as if they didn't exist at all.



MEGA = Make Excess Great Again

eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Jul 30, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
Are you fond of liars ATG? Trump does not know how to tell the truth.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 30, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
Are you fond of liars ATG? Trump does not know how to tell the truth.

If you like your Doctor, you can keep your Doctor...
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jul 30, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
If you like your Doctor, you can keep your Doctor...

lame, seriously is that all your got?

actually, nowhere in the ACA does it say you cannot keep your doctor

compared to: Trump's documented over 3000 outright lies since taking office

so desperate to change the subject away from this current President

lol, pathetic

HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 30, 2018 - 02:19pm PT

lame, seriously is that all your got?

I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinski...

They all lie, you clowns just don't get it.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 30, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
Now you've got 2999 more to go to match your hero.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 30, 2018 - 02:24pm PT
Now you've got 2999 more to go to match your hero.

Bill Clinton plead guilty to contempt and had to give up his law license for 5 years.

Trump hasn't even come close....
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 30, 2018 - 02:26pm PT
Then why don't you call him Crooked Trump and chant "lock him up" to be consistent?

If that is your real standard feel free to join the crowd in lock her up, first.

After all you wouldn't want to be inconsistent.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jul 30, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
Now you've got 2999 more to go to match your hero.

Bill Clinton plead guilty to contempt and had to give up his law license for 5 years.

Trump hasn't even come close....


and there it is again, deflect, defect deflect away from the 4th grader you voted for

again:
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 30, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
Xcon...hadn't heard that about sessions love life....Now he's screwing us...
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 30, 2018 - 11:19pm PT
pence way homo. nttawwt.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 31, 2018 - 05:56am PT
had to move it , move it, I like to
move-it move-it
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2018 - 09:13am PT
Trump tariffs threaten the strong economic growth and the expected market returns: CNBC Fed Survey


•Economic growth year over year is seen rising nearly 3 percent in 2018, before dropping to 2.7 percent in 2019, according to respondents to the CNBC Fed Survey.
•Economists, money managers and strategists see the recent economic strength as temporary. And 53 percent peg protectionist trade policies as the biggest threat to the economy.
•Nearly 70 percent of respondents see two more rate hikes this year, an increase from the June survey, and most see an additional two or three quarter-point hikes in 2019.

More here: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/31/good-economic-times-seen-muddled-by-tariffs-and-interest-rates.html
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jul 31, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
Help me out here. Is Rudy Giuliano a lawyer or a comedian?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 31, 2018 - 04:40pm PT
Gunfight at the It's Not OK Corral?

Does Trump ever pack?

A Colorado man — who had just killed a home intruder moments before — was fatally shot by police after he was mistaken for a burglar.
WBraun

climber
Jul 31, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
Trump IS THE PUPPET.

It's so amazing you fools completely focus on the puppet and are completely clueless to the puppet masters.

And it's NOT the Russians who your moronic MSM keeps trying to smear .....
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 31, 2018 - 05:14pm PT
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jul 31, 2018 - 05:18pm PT
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
Dogs get to shist on sidewalks, why not people?

Don't you advocate individual freedoms?

Back in the 1990's, during a visit to Paris, I realized all the urban dwellers with dogs took them out evenings & early morning to "schist-them", often on sidewalks.

By 10:00 the next morning, the old socialist street cleaners had scooped up the schist & hosed & brushed off the residue.

That's not the American way.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 31, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 31, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
People for plastics.

Man.

Really.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jul 31, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 31, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
Colorado shooting continued ...


Rathod told ABC News "a naked man kicked down the door to the house, entered the house, and was found choking Black Jr.'s 11-year-old grandson," strangling the boy in the bathtub. That boy's father, Black's stepson, went in and began wrestling with the naked man. Both he and Black were trying to save the boy.

"Mr. Black goes and gets his sidearm and shoots the intruder and saves his grandson," Rathod said. "Mr. Black walks out of the bathroom to see other individuals who had also come in the home. Black's wife had called the police and ran outside. She specifically told the police what her husband was wearing and there was a naked man attacking her grandson. Mr. Black walks out and is shot by police."

According to the lawyer, Black left the Army and became a federal agent. Prior to that, he was awarded a Bronze Star, with the first oak leaf cluster, an Army Combination Medal and a Purple Heart. Rathod said Black received all commendations for his service in the First Infantry Division simultaneously while at an Army hospital during the Vietnam War.






The art of the NO Deal

North Korea provided only a single dog tag to help identify the 55 cases of remains that were given to US officials on Friday, a US defense official told CNN.

Given the absence of any additional information to accompany the remains, the official said it "will take many months to a few years to identity" them based of previous experiences with the identification process.
"Other than a single dog tag, the Korean People's Army did not provide further information on where they recovered the remains or any other information," the official said.


zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 31, 2018 - 06:28pm PT

If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

If, however, the offense, the commission of which is the object of the conspiracy, is a misdemeanor only, the punishment for such conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for such misdemeanor.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 701; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 31, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
you saying manafort could do 5 years minimum...?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jul 31, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 1, 2018 - 07:33am PT
Getting hot in that room (Or as some call it the "echo chamber") watching TV all the time?



..This is a terrible situation and Attorney General Jeff Sessions should stop this Rigged Witch Hunt right now, before it continues to stain our country any further. Bob Mueller is totally conflicted, and his 17 Angry Democrats that are doing his dirty work are a disgrace to USA!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 1, 2018 - 07:55am PT
President Trump aka " The Stain " on America... Drain the Stain...Don't fire Mueller....
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2018 - 08:19am PT
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/inflation-gas-prices-and-tariffs-are-squeezing-consumers/ar-BBLlkRj

The National Association of Home Builders estimates that the tariffs the Trump administration placed on Canadian softwood lumber — along with other factors — have increased the cost of constructing a house by $7,000. Higher lumber prices may cause a slowdown in home construction, which would also mean a possible slowdown in job growth. Both building permits and ground breakings slowed in June, according to the Commerce Department.

"Any higher costs for material comes right out of our profit," said Randy Noel, a custom builder in Louisiana and chairman of the home builders' board.

Higher costs mean his company has only sold 30 homes this year, rather than the normal 40. He's been using fewer subcontractors on projects — which means those workers lose income.

"They're sitting at home and looking for remodeling jobs," Noel said.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 1, 2018 - 08:31am PT
Lumber futures are at six month lows, limit down on the day.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 1, 2018 - 09:28am PT

Is that you with the red shirt?

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2018 - 11:04am PT
Here's a one year chart of lumber prices. Higher now, than at this time last year, but way down from highs.
Trouble

Mountain climber
Fresno, CA
Aug 1, 2018 - 11:15am PT
TDS much?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 1, 2018 - 11:36am PT
The pussy Grabber & Thief's mouth piece just made a direct statement
that defines the tweets as obstruction, saying "look, he's fighting back. . ."

He is fighting back?

who is he fighting, why is he? If he is fighting by using his bully pulpit

is that a legal abuse of power?
is it Obstruction, & failure to up-hold his oath of office too?

making false statements, attempting to effect opinions by lying, repeatedly.
If It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck looks like a duck, it is a duck.

Fighting back is the same as trying to up-end an on going Federal
investigation, as he did when he fired Comey,His lying pack of mouth
pieces can only live it down by playing the hits of already proven
false statements.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 1, 2018 - 11:47am PT
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside

Aug 1, 2018 - 10:56am PT
Lumber futures are at six month lows, limit down on the day.

Nice spin eddie, but the lumber futures rose over six months ago in anticipation of the tariffs, and no they have not dropped to where they were pre-tariff discussion.

Holy Face Palm, Robin!

LULZ
dirtbag

climber
Aug 1, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
Btw, Fritz, the last word of the title of this thread is extraneous.

(You’re supposed to say, “No, it’s ‘economy,’ not ‘extraneous.’”)
dirtbag

climber
Aug 1, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
Collusion is beside the point: our president is a national security risk.

Donald Trump owes his presidency at least in considerable part to the illegal assistance of the Russian state: hacking, data theft, prohibited election advertising. This compromised president has in office launched himself against U.S. alliances and trade arrangements built by administrations of both parties over the past three-quarters of a century. The president describes the European Union as a “foe,” quarrels with Canada and Germany, and enters into agreements with Putin that he seems not to have shared even with his own secretary of state and national-security adviser. He blabs vital secrets to the Russian foreign minister, resists holding Russia to account for nerve-agent attacks on British soil, and refuses to implement sanctions voted almost unanimously by Congress. Meanwhile, the single data point that supposedly proves how tough he is on Russia—the provision of lethal aid to Ukraine—may actually prove something very different. Ukraine halted its cooperation with the Mueller probe ahead of the sale, to “avoid irritating the top American officials.”
“Collusion is not a crime” in the same way that a counter-intelligence investigation is not a criminal prosecution. Aspects of collusion may be criminal, but collusion itself is above all a threat to national security: the installation of a president beholden to some greater or lesser degree to a hostile foreign power.

Written by that bleeding heart, David Frum.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/collusion-is-a-question-of-loyalty-not-legality/566606/
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 1, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
How much longer will the GOP destroy their credibility before they fold the tRump Circus Tent? The “law and order” party is standing by while their boy tries to subvert the rule of law. The guilty pr*ck is saying he is the victim of a “deep state” conspiracy, when the investigation is being led by his own party’s appointees. Only the true tRumpinati could believe such nonsense.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 1, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
all time gibberish

Make America Greasy Again ID Card

Don't try to buy health care with it


Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 1, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
Equally strange is the lefts apparent disregard of the fact that under Obama

Obama Derangement Syndrome goes on.....deflect, deflect away from the 4th grader you voted for


mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
Aug 1, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 1, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
mooch ,I am sorry I watched that,lol.

More time I will never get back.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 1, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
After all this, it's hard to believe that Trump supporters actually exist. I imagine them as fat, white unicorns that reek of Pabst and have Cheeto stained hooves.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 1, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
Now we're getting somewhere

#QAnon, the scarily popular pro-Trump conspiracy theory, explained
How a conspiracy theory that Trump and Robert Mueller are secretly working together got from Reddit to Trump rallies.


Big orange target - how did they miss?


**
Reddit hacked, despite SMS two-factor authentication

Someone stole Trump ID and is posting on twitter without his knowledge?

It's Putin a stain on the internet
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2018 - 06:10pm PT
Indeed Z Brown! A new group of Trumpist crazies. I'm betting we have some on ST!

‘We are Q’: A deranged conspiracy cult leaps from the Internet to the crowd at Trump’s ‘MAGA’ tour.

Viewing their message boards, it’s clear that QAnon crosses a new frontier. In the black hole of conspiracy in which “Q” has plunged its followers, Trump only feigned collusion to create a pretense for the hiring of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, who is actually working to expose the Democrats. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and George Soros are planning a coup — and traffic children in their spare time. J.P. Morgan, the American financier, sunk the Titanic.

In the world in which QAnon believers live, Trump’s detractors, such as Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona and Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin, wear ankle monitors that track their whereabouts. Press reports are dismissed as “Operation Mockingbird,” the name given to the alleged midcentury infiltration of the American media by the CIA. The Illuminati looms large in QAnon. As do the Rothschilds, a wealthy Jewish family vilified by the conspiracy theorists as the leaders of a satanic cult. Among the world leaders wise to satanic influences, the theory holds, is Russian President Vladimir Putin.

QAnon flirts with eschatology, fascist philosophy and the filmmaking of Francis Ford Coppola. Adherents believe a “Great Awakening” will precede the final storm foretold by Trump. Once they make sense of the information drip fed to them by “Q,” they will usher in a Christian revival presaging total victory.

The implication is that resolving the clues left by “Q” would not just explain Trump’s planned countercoup. It would explain the whole universe.
When “Q” is absent for long stretches of time, followers take note.

“Please tell me where to go,” one wrote last month. “I feel lost without Q.”
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/%e2%80%98we-are-q%e2%80%99-a-deranged-conspiracy-cult-leaps-from-the-internet-to-the-crowd-at-trump%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%98maga%e2%80%99-tour/ar-BBLlNdc?li=BBnb7Kz
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Aug 1, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
I'm a student if human nature. I have no doubt that many of these Trump supporters are, otherwise, smart people. The thing about intelligence, however, is that it is a subconscious operator. Your conscious algorithms can work against your natural (subconscious) intelligence, which is based on survival and fecundity. Trump supporters' hatred for the left is this algorithm that seems to rise to the top in the conservative mind, making them blind to his obvious flaws as a human being and leader. I'm still working on this:)
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 1, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
But the economy is cranking...
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 1, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
Anyone have Manafort's email. I want to make him an offer on that ostrich coat.




NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 1, 2018 - 10:25pm PT
Nice article that stokes my hope that the Mueller investigations will pave the way to campaign finance reform and media funding transparency laws, in the wake of bipartisan corruption that is being exposed:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/us/politics/fara-foreign-agents-mueller.html
dirtbag

climber
Aug 2, 2018 - 07:31am PT
Yeah, zbrown, I’d never heard of QAnon until yesterday.

Remember the good old days when republicans like Buckley and Goldwater tried to keep the “kooks” in their place?

Now, the kooks are driving the agenda.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Aug 2, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
What a bunch of monkeys living south of us. I wish you would hurry up and finish your walls. We are ready with the lid.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 2, 2018 - 04:02pm PT
Boy reads one persons opinion on the internet.
Boy is not amused.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 2, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
Why are we not talking about building a wall across our northern border?

Canada is crawling with white people dying to get into America.

Everyone knows how horrible their socialized healthcare system is with such long waits.

The pregnant Canadian mothers try to cross over so their children will be born here and be instant US citizens with immediate free healthcare and welfare benefits.

Anchor Babies, all of them.

And Canada does not send its best polite people, these are bad hombres, traffic law violators.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 2, 2018 - 05:30pm PT
Lot of rapists coming in from Canada....Build the Wall...
MarkWestman

Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
Aug 2, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
The economy is so good that:

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/08/02/health/condom-cdc-reuse-tweet-trnd/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 2, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
Beware, AVG is a powerful intellect.

He has correctly figured out that President Obama is not only half white, the most damming discovery, but also that his Presidency was "illegitimate".

AVG knows that Hawaii did not become a state until 2008, well after Obama was born there

ATF also has learned that the Hawaii newspaper that announced his birth was Fake News.

Birthers are smart, they hide their intelligence well, rightfully avoiding being labeled elitists.

AVG voted for John McCain because he was born in America, or was that in the Panama Canal Zone?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 2, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
all toothless garbage


back of the truck, trashboy, before you hurt yourself


Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 2, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
Dumb ass Birther, aren't you honey boo boo? F ing liar too

oh no! I see another liar has checked in too
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 2, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
This stuff writes itself.


Paul Manafort's rapacious habits have been shown by prosecutors to include a propensity to victimize ostriches.

Those ostriches are the Republican voters who put their heads into the sand whenever truth, facts and irrefutable evidence is presented to them.


Manafort's $15,000 ostrich skin jacket served to remind him that he was, at the time, a major player of ostriches.



Yesterday's Ostrich Of The Walk is now being cooked up as Mueller's bird stew.







EDIT: If you ever drive up to Solvang, on 101 north of Santa Barbara, stop and see the ostrich farm about two miles off the highway. Ostriches are impressive birds that can be very aggressive and dangerous when they figure out that you've been trying to game them.

It's not a petting zoo. Keep your hands to home, city slicks.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
Calm down folks. The conservatives on this thread would love to see it locked, or deleted. Let's keep it cerebral, not personal, nasty, & vicious.

Here's some more evidence that Trump is going to "Screw the pooch" of the American economy.

Swelling government debt levels are shaping up to be the biggest economic challenge for President Donald Trump, a problem that could spill into the stock market.

This week's Treasury Department announcement that it would have to increase the amount of bond auctions over the next three months was a low-key reminder that the government IOU is only getting bigger and will start influencing interest rates sooner rather than later.

As more product comes to market, investors could be expected to demand higher yields to snap up all the supply. And those higher yields
mean higher costs at a time when taxpayers already have shelled out nearly half a trillion dollars this year in debt service.

Put it all together and it raises questions about how long the spurt in economic growth will continue, what will happen the next time the economy falls into recession and what impact it all will have on financial markets.
"We're applauding strong growth — yet have no choice but to borrow the largest amount of money since the financial crisis a decade ago," Bernard Baumohl, chief global economist at the Economic Outlook Group, said in a note. "And that's just the start, the US will [be] running trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see."

The price tag keeps growing.

The total U.S. debt just passed the $21.3 trillion mark, of which $15.6 trillion is owed by the public. The Treasury announced Wednesday that it will be adding $1 billion each to auctions of two-, three- and five-year debt over the next three months, and $1 billion each for seven- and 10-year note and 30-year bond auctions in August. In addition, the department is issuing a new two-month note to help assure liquidity in the fixed income market.

In all, the changes will add $30 billion to the debt issuance for the quarter. On the overall, Treasury said it expects to borrow $769 billion in the second half of the year, a projected 63 percent increase from 2017.
Markets reacted to the move, as the 30-year bond yield climbed over 3 percent for the first time in nearly two months and rates moved higher for most durations.

Over the short term, the debt issue likely will be superseded by other news, particularly the strong burst of growth and the tariff battles the U.S. has launched against its trading partners around the world. Ironically, the Trump administration has promised that breakout economic performance will help take care of the rising debt load brought on by tax cuts and higher spending, but the early results don't seem to bear those hopes out.

"Booming economic growth has not been sufficient to lower the budget deficit — in fact, the deficit and Treasury borrowing are headed sharply higher, and virtually no one in Washington seems to care," Greg Valliere, chief global strategist at Horizon Investments, said in his daily note Thursday.

Indeed, the Congressional Budget Office projects the deficit to be just a shade under $1 trillion in 2019 and then pass that level in 2020 and eclipse $1.5 trillion by 2028. The costs to finance all that debt has continued to grow, hitting $458 billion in fiscal year 2017 and already at $415 billion in 2018 with three months left in the fiscal year.


Revenue receipts, meanwhile, are lagging.


Tax and withholding payments from individuals and corporations has come in at $1.752 trillion in calendar year 2018, about $17 billion below the same point in 2017, a difference of about 1 percent, according to DataTrek Research. That's also below the 0.2 percent gain in revenue the government had projected.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-trump-administration-is-headed-for-a-gigantic-debt-headache/ar-BBLpXHd?li=BBnb7Kz&pfr=1


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 2, 2018 - 08:56pm PT
Let's keep it cerebral, not personal, nasty, & vicious.

Exactly.

Attacking the messenger is a diversion to fallaciously negate the message itself.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem


It's hard to believe that, even after 2400 years, Greek Logic is still not universally accepted, in the same way that everybody accepts Euclidean Geometry.


#FakeNews #WitchHunt #2+2=5 #e^^ipi=1

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 2, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
Remember the so-called fiscally responsible Republicans horse whipping Obama about his economic stimulus plan and the national debt being out of control , but suddenly , now that the Republicans are in control , a trillion dollar debt is a good thing...? to add to the hysteria we have a clown is the white house that has been thru how many chapter 11's and won't show his income tax returns because he's hiding something... Does anyone remember what happen the last time a Republican was in the white house...?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 2, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
Xcon...check out the floor leveler in Mrs. Cruz's hair...self-leveling...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 2, 2018 - 10:15pm PT
Nice attempt at haiku ATG. Too bad it's drivel.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 2, 2018 - 11:48pm PT
America(with the exception of CA) is Great Again.




California is, apparently, taking the rest of America down with it:


Soybean Central is Rockin'-'N'-Rollin' - - - to the tune of $12 billion in government welfare payments to keep them singin' the We Like Trump tune. How do you like that? People who hate "socialism" are taking taxpayers' cash from a Soviet-style despot who thinks he can command the economy with random Twitter Tantrums.


Missouri Nail Factory is shutting down, laying off workers, pleading for a steel tariff exemption, so that they, too, can be "Great". Too bad, losers. Unless you're tight with Wilbur Ross, you don't get a tariff exemption. Get the factory ready for a pennies-on-the-dollar buyout by The Big Kids.


Midwest Hog Farmers no longer have any market for their "variety meats" (ears, noses, feet, heads, offal) that were up to half of their revenue when they sold that stuff to China. Midwest "winners" can look forward to experimenting with subsisting on foods that used to be completely repulsive. It'll be all they can afford, after they can't make their payments, the bank takes their land, and they become welfare queens. MAGA-FUGGA!


Harley-Davidson, Ford, GM, Chrysler - they're goin' down, down, down, down . . . . .





Mar-A-Lago entrance fees are up, up, up, up, up. People want to pay big money to dry-hump Trump, and get favorable treatment.


MEGA = Make Excess Great Again





DON'T FORGET:

THERE IS A VAST, MAINSTREAM MEDIA CONSPIRACY THAT ENSURES THAT ALL THE DIFFERENT NEWSPAPERS, TV SHOWS AND WEBSITES COLLUDE AND PUT OUT THE EXACT SAME "FAKE NEWS".

REMEMBER: WHAT YOU ARE SEEING, AND WHAT YOU ARE READING, IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TOLD YOU TO REJECT THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR EYES AND EARS.

THE ONLY RELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION IS KIM-JONG TRUMP.

KIM-JONG TRUMP LEARNED TO FLY JET AIRPLANES WHEN HE WAS FOUR YEARS OLD.

KIM-JONG TRUMP LANDED HIS JETLINER IN THE HUDSON RIVER, SAVING 5 MILLION LIVES, AFTER ROBERT MUELLER'S WITCH HUNT BROKE HIS ENGINE.

KIM-JONG TRUMP WENT SCUBA DIVING IN THE POTOMAC RIVER DURING HIS LUNCH BREAK, AND FOUND A 666,000-YEAR-OLD SHIPWRECK.







Here is some Fake News, smuggled into the country from a hostile, foreign Democracy:


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/24/trump-plans-to-give-billions-in-aid-to-farmers-hurt-by-tariffs-report.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/missouri-midcontinent-nail-trade-war-layoffs-donald-trump-a8417411.html


https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/08/01/chinese-tariffs-kick-u-s-pig-feet/866453002/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=amp&utm_campaign=speakable

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/2018/07/24/harley-davidson-profit-falls-decline-u-s-motorcycle-sales/824843002/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-autos/automakers-warn-u-s-tariffs-will-cost-hundreds-of-thousands-of-jobs-hike-prices-idUSKBN1JN1T2


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/mar-a-lago-membership-fee-doubles-to-200000.html

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:53am PT
Why can't I find a picture of Trump that looks like this?





Apparently, Trump received a medal for learning how to fold his underwear and put it into a drawer.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 3, 2018 - 05:24am PT
The guy sucking the CA public teat is complaining that it ain't great. Your welcome Jody
couchmaster

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 05:34am PT


I would encourage you all to read a few of the over 2300 comments on this left wing news sites link regarding CNN's Jim Acosta being upset with Sarah Sanders. You may not believe it, as most of you on this thread only listen to like minded folks. This is called reality.

Read peoples comments at the bottom:

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-acosta-blasts-sanders-un-american-anti-press-rhetoric-after-walking-out-of-briefing-im-tired-of-this/

About Mediaite: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mediaite/

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 3, 2018 - 06:55am PT
Jody. the repugs had dozens of investigations into Hillary and bengazi. could not get a single indictment. there is so much corruption around trump that the inditements and guilty pleas are falling like ripe apples. get your head out of your ass and see the light.

If this is a witch hunt they sure as fck are finding a lot of witches.
moonchild

Social climber
gone with the wind
Aug 3, 2018 - 08:28am PT
milktoast you rule.

i'm glad for knowing you.

here's an old one that I hope brings you a smile.

"24 April, 1998. 12:00 noon. Old Climbers' Home, Oakland, California. Michael "Betamikester" "Bro" Brodesky has not arrived. I check out a chrome-plated walker from the front desk, then move my piled packs to the porch of the Old Climbers' Home so we can load Brodesky's car without him seeing the disaster area in the catacombs where I currently reside, a hybrid of garbage dump and exploded haul bag.

1:30 pm. Bro finally shows up, and mentions that his brakes are smoking. Sudden change of plans, we shovel all our stuff into the back of the Cave. Shove off along Highway 580 at 70 miles per, eastbound from Oakland, California toward the Valley of Dreams. Brief stop at the Oakdale Taco Bell to choke down roadkill. Bro takes the wheel. I snore with senile satisfaction in the shotgun seat, spittle staining my shirt, confident we are safe from attack for the moment.

Somewhere on Highway 120. As Mike brakes hard and swerves, I jerk awake. The pavement is covered with a thin layer of slushy snow. Truck is fishtailing around an overturned SUV, narrowly missing oncoming traffic. Several cars are stopped. A group of lean, honed sportclimbers loiter beside the road as the snow drifts down, one miming the beta of the accident to the others. The immediate problem seems under control. We pull into Crane Flat, Mike reports the accident. I return to the snooze.

Yosemite Valley. The incessant rain is a dreary homecoming after my two-month absence. Brodesky feels ripped off. Just another beautiful day in Patagonia. "Hey," I say. "Tomorrow is another day." As the evening gloom deepens, we retreat to the Curry Village Pizzeria and down our sorrows with cholesterepperoni.

Awahnee Hotel. Dusk. Headlamps out, I totter my walker ahead of me behind Michael as the sky sprinklers shut down. I've slogged this stench of forest so many times this year that I remember the places where I made handprints in the snow, the locations of coyote dung, the blue gear-marking tape where Nurse Ratchet and I joked about trail markers, remember where to turn, where to rest, where I left the food stash two months ago when attempting a winter ascent of the Prow; where I peed, pooped, and puked. An attempt that was pre-doomed to failure due to storms and the flu, under the sleet sheets and snowy blankets of the Upper Pines Hospital Ward, our week-long physical therapy trudging-haulbag-heavy up and posthole-portaging down the slop to the Column, weak and wasted. Ya pays for yer ticket and ya takes yer chances.

Presently Bro and I bivy at the Astroman base at 9 pm. We slip into the sacks, sinking snoozeward, alarm set for some ungodly hour.

4:00 am, 25 April 1998. Deep sleep interrupted by the dreaded beep. Sluggish, yet aware of need to move. Breakfast. harness. Carefully stretch the old body. Stash the walker and the packs. Slug last glug of water, force-march the gully to the base of Washington Column South Face Route, where our adventure is to begin. I retch. Betamikester looks concerned. Guess he'd forgotten about that part..

Dinner Ledge. 7:30 am. Mikester sped us here in virtually no time at all. My turn. We're leading in blocks, selected for our relative strengths. I get a last blast of beta from Brodesky and totter out 120 feet left to the base of the first steep section, a 5.9 offwidth/squeeze chimney. Bro follows, another brief conference and gear transfer, then its up the offwidth, belaying at bolts [OH, the IMPACT!!!] 130' higher. Mikester follows as if on wings, dumps the pack and rack, and I'm off again. This time it's a tension traverse to a 5.10c crack which feels a lot like A1 to me ol' geezer bones after the first few moves, feet skating on flakes and flying bits-o'-rock. Slow swim upward in aiders, over the bulge, to cut into 5.9 free climbing up to the belay.

Yet again. Step right, 5.9 (loose and grainy A1 to the geezer) up a bit, pendulum again, gulp gulp in fear, place place pro pro, long traversing runout below, then creep, mewling, up the vertical C2 crux through flakes exfoliating and clenching my crawling incontinent bowels to a bolt, another pendulum, and finally stance at the base of a 40-foot high, 3-inch thick granite wafer held in place by inertia; morning sunlight finally sweeping the face.

Mikester appears, wrapped in pack and tangled rope like a confused beetle bound in spidersilk, awaiting a last meal on the web. He stumbles to the stance, muttering it might be quicker if the Duffer heads up first, giving him time to unstrangle. Done. What follows is a terrifying 5.8 jam/cryback up the flakexpanding, a 5.10 romp up the offwidth, power pulls through loose and wobbly, to a leftward traverse over unprotected face. Pins would get me a pendulum, but that is unthinkable as I thoughtlessly find myself pinned to the wall in a half-mantle-half-flail, feet-slipping 20-foot pendulum fall ahead taketakeTAKETENSIONTAKE!!!! and the rope tightens, I winch myself back into the corner, and reassess. This time the rope is my handhold, tensioning across the 5.11 face, liebacking off nylon and nubbins Oh Dulfer.

Crimp and slap and i reach a fixed pi and easyaid up to the Top of the Mark and the end of my leads.

Mikester arrives and heads across unprotected 5.7 face we call 5.7+ [translation "feels like 5.10c"] to yet another tension traverse, then a ledge where he stops to bring me across, the 80-foot pitch having netted us a vertical elevation gain of two feet.

Now Bro's on a thin crack the topo calls A1/5.9 meaning after you aid up tiny brass where the crack disappears into the featureless face you launch into 30 feet of 5.9 mandatory face climbing thinking only of how-far-below-are-those-last-two-brass-bits-nestled-in- the-crack and I'm so very glad you led it and not me, thank you Bro. Mike ends the pitch where the rope does, and I romp upwards, giving the lead line a shake to dislodge the few anorexic pieces. This pitch is scantily decorated, and janitor Brutus has little to do but jug.

Next are roofs which resemble chockstones resembling roofs in our gutter/gully/corner, and Bro, a bubble working around seaweed to the surface of the fishtank, swings upward in aiders, backcleaning until out of sight. "Fixed!" echoes down and I confirm he's off belay, then abandon the stance to the moss, the oak, and the teetering death block; jugging roofs, chimney and rubble onto a wide slickery pineneedle ledge. Mikester craftily heads out before I can dump gear onto him, then brings me up to the end of the climb. Quick sort and we scratch up over the top of the Column, stumbling across the brush ledges, thrashing for the gully.

We find a fixed rope at the top of North Dome Gully and, grinning and not proud, rappel the steep dirt clear down to the stream. I dig out the headlamps and we head down the slabs, racing the end of the day.

Arrive at the base of the Column at last light 14 hours after we started, unearth the packs and the walker, chomp bootybeans, swill beer, and from our sleepingbags greet Doctor Coomer who is carrying loads for a solo attempt on Southern Man; sleep, totter out, sort gear, and return to the Old Climbers' Home 48 hours after we left. I check my walker at the front desk, until next time. Nurse Ratchet peers over her spectacles: "So how was your walk?"

All in all, a nice little stroll." -bruce binder
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2018 - 09:14am PT
Nice tale Bruce! I'm glad the nurse let you folks go for a walk.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 3, 2018 - 09:23am PT
Watching Trump in action, it’s hard to escape the impression that he knows very well that he’s inflicting punishment on his own base.

But he’s a man who likes to humiliate others, in ways great and small. And my guess is that he actually takes pleasure in watching his supporters follow him even as be betrays them.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 3, 2018 - 09:26am PT
As for Jody, just remember that his hero, Ted Cruz, is descended from a father who assassinated Kennedy.

You won't find Jody defending Cruz. He doesn't understand the concept of "loyalty".
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 09:30am PT
If lying makes one an enemy of the state.

Then Trump is an enemy of the state.
Sarah Sanders is an enemy of the state.
Rudy Giuliani is an enemy of the state.

Etc..
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 09:40am PT
you funny..
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:39am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 3, 2018 - 11:58am PT
Trump the racist

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
KenM, of course I defend Cruz, would still rather have him as president. However, I am pleasantly surprised by how well Trump is doing and with very few exceptions I can't complain.

Which only means that you had a sense of justice and ethics, until it was convenient not to have one. Hardly surprising from a law enforcement officer, who broke the law to buy/ship weapons illegally.

Take note everyone, what the claim for justice and ethics are worth from republicans/conservatives.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
" Barack Obama:

"What type of ID do we need to buy groceries? I'm at the store and all I have on me is my birth certificate.""
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
time to dial back the nastiness people. Take a break. C2summit is just trolling you guys.

sorry to ruin your fun C2.. I'm sure a few will still bite. You could stand in the middle of a street in NY and yell "I'm a troll" and some would still bite.
John M

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
Woot!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
There will be blood on the president’s hands:


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/opinion/trump-fake-news-enemy.html?action=click&contentCollection=opinion®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront

The “enemy of the people” vitriol will have dire consequences at some point.

One thing I’ve learned the last few years is that many Americans love a strongman, but freedom, not so much, really. They dearly love the orange man with dictatorial aspirations.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
Oh the biggest blow hard of them all Tom. Are you the busy body that sits on El Cap bridge all day photographing?! Talk about a Loser!


No, I am not Tom Evans, who was a chopper pilot in Vietnam, has climbed El Capitan a few times and whose photography is appreciated by many people. El Capitan is a fishbowl for those who climb it, and has been since 1959. Tom Evans was not the first person to stand at the base, observing climbers.

Your inability to discern one person from another here indicates that you are a newcomer to this forum. You are probably not a climber at all, if you don't know the difference between me and Tom Evans.

My guess is that you're a Russian agent/bot with a Moscow mandate to disseminate false information and to personally attack people presenting facts about Donald Trump.




Trump professes to be knowledgeable of Alphonse "Al" Capone. Here's a story that Trump supporters can relate to: Al Capone was a notoriously violent, psychopathic and murderous gangster who was defended, in the court of public opinion in Chicago, because he handed out free turkeys at Thanksgiving. His fan base thought he was a great guy, because they personally benefited from his criminally-funded largess.

Al Capone spent a decade in Federal prison for tax evasion. Ironically, Trump is currently under New York State and Federal investigation for financial malfeasance, including potential tax evasion.

monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
Edward T suffers from TDS

More cognition issues from sea2summit.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
Climb harder than your weak ass.


TRANSLATION:

I don't know who you are, but I must be better than you, because my empty rhetoric is accusatory and absurd.





Anyone that posts subject regarding Trump and how bad is weak super weak. Get up earlier loser.

Trump posses the qualities of Winston Churchill. Blunt and to the point! Al Capone boy you are delusional! Tom suffers from TDS.


If you're going to pretend to know what you're writing about, the least you can do is know how to write in coherent English sentences. Or, did you just learn a few words of English at the FSB academy?





The person who is delusional about Al Capone is Trump himself.

Trump tweeted this two days ago:









Manafort's trial for tax evasion and bank fraud is progressing beautifully. It is a wonderful thing to watch people who are very good at their jobs performing at the highest level of their competence. Mueller's team, if anything, is a little too eager to show the jury everything.

Manafort's bookkeepers and tax accountants have consistently testified that Manafort intentionally concealed offshore bank accounts from them. Wire transfers from those offshore banks, to recipients in the United States, were used to finance Manafort's lavish lifestyle. A bookkeeper has testified that Manafort personally approved "every single penny" that was spent.


Manafort's defense, so far, is that "somebody else must have done it".
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
Under Trump’s watch, the U.S. is on track for the highest trade deficit in 10 years

http://www.jackcolemanphoto.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IMG_1892.jpg
monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 3, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
sea2summit, even without knowing anything about Edward T, all you had to do was play his link for a few seconds and would know he does not suffer from TDS.

You got played, dumbass.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:08pm PT
Trump posses the qualities of Winston Churchill. Blunt and to the point! Al Capone boy you are delusional!

Hilarious!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
I’m the one pulling the strings now!



I think that is what Trump yells out in his sleep, right before he jolts upright in bed, dripping sweat, and trying to shake off another recurring nightmare.

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 3, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 03:07pm PT
Trump appears to have lost the confidence of his Pennsylvania audience yesterday.

This was where Trump said, of himself and Putin, "Now we're being hindered by the Russian hoax."






You can fool some of the people all of the time. And, you can fool all of the people some of the time. But, you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
 attributed to Abraham Lincoln; famously repeated by Richard Nixon
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 3, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
Okay Jody, you had the hardest job in the world. I do not have a problem with that or the amount you got paid, What I do have a problem with is you running down the state that pays you a generous pension. Do you even realize how lucky you are? apparently not, you are the classic ingrate, and are deluded enough to think that anyone that works as hard as you did would get equally compensated. That is delusional

edit: did you get Sean Spicer as a press secretary :) I actually kinda like that guy
dirtbag

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
Okay, now that we have established that Jody worked 27 years, never took disability, hates Kalifornia regulations, but likes Sarah Sanders’ boobs, can we please get back to Trump bashing?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 3, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
How are you "the chief",lol.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
running plates is super duper impordant
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
Jody arrives. Thread shoots due south to extinction. Uncanny how that formula works every time.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
It is called resistance,you deal with it ,you brought it on a majority(w/help).

There are people that do not like you,the world turns and cares not.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:16pm PT
Hillary and Obama are gone. Deal with it.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
Jody, do try to remember that it doesn’t matter what you did for
anybody if you didn’t vote for Hillary and drive a Tesla. I’m sure
the SuperTopo Bolshies would retract their praise of the recently
fallen fire fighters if it turned out they voted for Trump.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 3, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
This is about Trump.

There you go Reilly,how's about sticking to the topic.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 3, 2018 - 05:12pm PT
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 3, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
^^^ Exactly!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 05:39pm PT
Ok, If Jody were your child you'd love him unconditionally in spite of some fuked up Trump worshipping.

Moving on- Today's developments in the Manafort trial has got to be freaking out the Trump Cartel.

Lo and behold, witnesses tend tell the truth in court. The maze of lies is unraveling before us and the God damn Rascals are going to be tree'd by Muller's team, one by one.

Here, here for Muller- an American hero beyond reproach!
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 3, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
The Trump Cartel,lol,we all realize he is a real estate developer from Queens, N.Y. ,right.

Jody, nice generalization ,some are just intolerant of your views.
Trump

climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 06:00pm PT
Take the Trump supporters out and Clinton won bigly. Beginning to understand why I don’t like Trump supporters?

Yea, I think I understand now. Other people’s logic sucks, but when it’s my logic, then it makes sense. I must be some kind of genius.

Take blacks out and Trump wins the popular vote. Or take Hispanics out and Trump wins the popular vote. Or take Asians out and Trump almost wins the popular vote. I wonder how we feel about those groups.

Nothing worse than a sore loser. Except maybe for a sore winner. If we try hard enough, I’ll bet we can find a self-righteous reason to dislike just about anyone.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 3, 2018 - 06:27pm PT









rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 3, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
Ridiculous restrictions on our freedoms...Oh please...!!!
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 3, 2018 - 07:01pm PT
Hey, Putin won, deal with it!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 3, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
Dunce boy demeaning a physically handicapped person proves having money doesn't guarantee having class...
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Aug 3, 2018 - 07:40pm PT
Over the long run (say, the next 50 years and longer), just the stupid climate change policies alone of this administration will have huge negative effects on the economy. DUH!!
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Aug 3, 2018 - 07:56pm PT
I don't like what ATG stands for but that tampon string comment is pure comedic gold.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 3, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
Are they freshly laundered...?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
I sigh for you, Jody & ATG.

May you find a better life, after the Trump economic disaster.

Please don't move to Idaho.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 3, 2018 - 10:25pm PT
What a load of BS from ATG. You're not patriotic; you're a jingoistic xenophobe. There's a difference, though Trump supporters lack the ability to tell the difference. Also, don't blame God for your misguided beliefs. That's all on you. Finally, it's the common ploy of the internet troll to claim that he or she is independent after aggressively defending Trump, which is indefensible. No one is buying it.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 4, 2018 - 07:20am PT
Well in Trump's favor,

QAnon has only gotten bigger over the past few months. Former MLB pitcher and conservative pundit Curt Schilling shared a video on Twitter in June that alleges that QAnon isn’t just about Trump. It claims every US president before Trump was engaged in a criminal conspiracy with pedophile rings and the “deep state” and pharmaceutical companies, all to enslave the American people.

Why don't they just use AI

Five of the scariest predictions about artificial intelligence
Mass Unemployment
War
Robo doctors
Mass Surveillance
Discrmination
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:12am PT
Yeah ATG, I'm with you on the guitars on ending cannabis prohibition. As far as defending trump and doing christian missionary work in Africa? Well phuck religion.

"Here's something you'll never hear: 'Agnostic stronghold took heavy shelling by atheist rebels'" -Doug Stanhope
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:29am PT
How anyone can be a decent Christian and support trump in beyond explanation...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:31am PT
You certainly can not call yourself a patriot if you support a traitor..
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:39am PT
Some "Christians" have traded the old Jesus for the new testament according to tRump. They had to make choice, and they made it.

tRump is pretty much the anti-Jesus. Greedy, Selfish, Intolerant and Vindictive. Selling Totalitarianism as Patriotism.

That snake oil must taste pretty good!

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 4, 2018 - 09:55am PT
That's probably why separation of church and state is a good idea...Most people can't deliniate between a grabber and a saint...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 4, 2018 - 10:07am PT
Nothing funny about it.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 4, 2018 - 11:01am PT
Those kinds of tweets are embarrassing, degrading and racist.

He’s the president, the face of the United States: he should act like it.

Maybe if you’re 12 you’d find it humorous.

But to Jody an other so-called adults cheering him on—grow the f*#k up, man child.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 4, 2018 - 11:04am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 4, 2018 - 11:06am PT
LeBrown's elevator seems like it can reach the top floor...Trump's is stuck in the basement...What's funny is neither Golden State or Cleveland would grace the white house with their presence...
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 4, 2018 - 11:20am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]


Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 4, 2018 - 11:25am PT
A federal lawsuit filed in New York accuses Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump of repeatedly raping a 13-year-old girl more than 20 years ago, at several Upper East Side parties hosted by convicted sex offender and notorious billionaire investor Jeffrey Epstein.

The suit, first reported by the Real Deal, accuses Trump and Epstein of luring the anonymous plaintiff and other young women to four parties at Epstein’s so-called Wexner Mansion at 9 East 71st Street. Epstein allegedly lured the plaintiff, identified in the suit only as Jane Doe, with promises of a modeling career and cash.

Another anonymous woman, identified in additional testimony as Tiffany Doe, corroborates Jane’s allegations, testifying that she met Epstein at Port Authority, where he hired her to recruit other young girls for his parties. Trump had known Epstein for seven years in 1994 when he attended the parties at Wexner, according to the suit. He also allegedly knew that the plaintiff was 13 years old.
Snopes
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 11:51am PT
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 4, 2018 - 11:57am PT
And you support a traitor.
A Essex

climber
Aug 4, 2018 - 12:04pm PT
so cute when fake presidents try to start a race war on tweeter

prolly jus jealous of their yuge hands
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 4, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
If you have to be told twice, you're dumber than the dummy you quoted.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 4, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
Liars are by definition, dumb
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 4, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
Trump's lower MPG ploy will be bad for the economy by costing Americans more at the gas pump...Another attack on the middle class and poor..
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 4, 2018 - 01:53pm PT
Biodiesel just went down 10 cents a gallon.

There is resistance.

Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 4, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
Still a knob.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
Despite the efforts of folks like Jody & ATG to turn this thread into a conservative insult-fest, it's made it to 500 posts.

Many thanks to those who keep a civil tone, despite Trump's provocations.


Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2018 - 02:56pm PT
Poor old Jody, misunderstood & wronged by so many, even your fellow Republican, Trump advisory board member & gun-buff Fritz.




divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 4, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
Hey stupid, he edited his post. Originally, it only said "And there you have it" Pay attention moron.

When I see a post for the first time, I'm supposed to know if it has been edited? Thanks for paying attention for me...
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 4, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
I think Lebron James is an idiot too.

I think Clarence Thomas is brilliant. Now what am I?

a liar
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 4, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
LMAO ...And a sheep molester...
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 4, 2018 - 04:15pm PT
tRumps LPD’s (Lies Per Day) are really up lately. They are going to have to pay the Russian bots OT to keep up.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 4, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
Fascism is now just a commodity, bought and sold by the highest bidders.

Putin, Trump .... Idi Amin ...

The beat goes on

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 4, 2018 - 05:00pm PT
Can hardly wait till the statements after Portland.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 4, 2018 - 10:11pm PT
Now, Jody, you really didn’t know about all the resident constitutional legal scholars here?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
Aug 5, 2018 - 12:22am PT
Interesting piece on Justice Thomas.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/opinion/contributors/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-conservative.html
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:39am PT
Inquiring minds might "inquire" why neither Chief Justice William Rehnquist, who presided over Thomas’ first fourteen years on the Court, nor Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., who presided thereafter, ever assigned Thomas a landmark opinion for the Court. Or, why that dog don't hunt (witches or otherwise).

Clearly Thomas' best line and it turns out he plagiarized from Mel Brooks

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 10:21am PT
Even this week’s The Economist grudgingly concede’s Trump’s Afghanistan policies are having better results than Obama’s, although that was a low bar to hurdle.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 5, 2018 - 10:29am PT
Even the worst person on the planet can do something positive once in a while. A traitor is still a traitor......
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 5, 2018 - 11:10am PT
Laughing Hardly.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 5, 2018 - 11:24am PT
Yes you are right, I don’t know about light bulbs, nothing here with any ,all dc powered leds. Just waiting for all the free stuff. You know like being a top ten percenter.

Or a farmer.Good to see the chef back around,lol.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
I've been trying to ignore sea2summit, since he's obviously nuts & somewhat obsessive.

My new proof of that, is his above post on my chiding ATG for his lack of mental ability.

That chiding was posted on July 21st, on ATG's anti-Obama rant thread 6:43 seconds in.


Jul 21, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
ATG! I can't say it better about you than Jim Donini did:
You’re such a f*#king moron like the rest of your ilk.

And I can only add: You are such a fuking Moron that you keep defending your moronic posts.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 5, 2018 - 01:09pm PT
A friend , a die-hard conservative , who worked in the Reagan , Bush 1 and 2 , clinton , and obama administrations said Trump can't hire any competent people because Trump doesn't know anyone in the military or politics line of work...Does this have to do with the high turn over rate in his administration...? My friend said Mattis is totally over his head and unqualified for his current position...Oh yeah , right Afghanistan is coming around...LMAO... That being said , my friend says he likes what Trump , who's lacking in social grace , is doing and thinks Trump is a better president than obama which isn't saying much...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 01:10pm PT
Yeah, Tut, why don’t you post the whole article, including the parts that don’t serve your purpose? So your definition of a ‘puff piece’ is one that acknowledges the negative aspects in addition to the positive aspects? Most people would call that a balanced article, but I guess we’ll just have to take your word for it. If you actually read The Economist regularly you would know, not that you would admit it, that they take him to task rather severely and regularly. But they also give credit where it is due, something you wouldn’t do if it bit you on yer nose.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 5, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
Hey,that war is a money maker,we cannot stop that.

Economy First.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
Trump says that his tariffs on imported goods and materials will pay down the national debt. In other words, his tariffs are hidden taxes on consumers to supplant the lost revenue caused by his gigantic tax cut for the rich.

https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Trump-makes-bizarre-claim-that-tariffs-will-help-13133115.php







Trump admitted on Twitter that the April 2016 meeting in Trump Tower was specifically for the purpose of obtaining election assistance from the Kremlin. In the same tweet, Trump falsely claimed that the violation of Federal election laws was perfectly legal, and that similar crimes are committed all the time.

Trump says that his son, Don Junior, "inadvertently" broke the law when he intentionally conspired with a hostile foreign government to defraud the United States of America.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/05/us/politics/trump-tower-meeting-donald-jr.html

https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Analysis-Trump-just-made-2-problematic-13133156.php

Trump's motive for confessing on Twitter is, apparently, that he believes a crime committed openly, and brazenly, is not a crime at all. Rudy Giuliani said that obstructing justice must be done surreptitiously; if it is done openly, then it doesn't occur, at all.

Trump is like a cornered bank robber who thinks that if he holds up the bag of money, and shows it to the police, they'll let him walk away with it.









Trump's wife, children and staff are backing away from him, and refusing to parrot his ever-more-despicable lies. Melania, Ivanka, Kellyanne Conway, John Bolton and other senior officials have rebuked Trump, and refuted his false statements.

Two lies that Trump's staff aren't repeating are that the "press is the enemy of the people", and that the current Russian attack on the 2018 elections is a "hoax".

Melania publicly contradicted Trump's opinion that LeBron James is "dumb", and says that she wants to visit the school LeBron established in Ohio.



http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/russia-trump-takes-new-steps-contradict-us-intelligence-agencies

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/08/05/kellyanne-conway-trump-adviser-media-not-enemy-people/910143002/

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Melania-Trump-issues-statement-in-support-of-13132316.php

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 5, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
Light bulbs,so 1964.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
I keep telling my fellow Republican bigwigs to "Dump the Trump," but so far, they are all loving being in power.

They will soon be sorry, when Congress goes to the Democrats & the Trump economy goes to Hell.

Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
Tariffs:
not only will they not make much net revenue when sources change and special exemptions handed out, but trumpy is already planning to subsidize huge losses for business that he considers his base, such as farmers.

Tax Cut:
the sugar high of this huge debt giveaway to the rich may last another year or so. So its effect on the 2020 elections is a guess at this point. Unless his tariffs shorten the sugar high even more.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 5, 2018 - 07:34pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 5, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
Trump administration officials that have ties to large American steel corporations are blocking tariff waiver requests. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross is a steel tycoon, and several other White House officials are ex-US Steel executives.

Domestic manufacturers who are severely impacted by Trump's tariff wars are not eligible for tariff waivers, because they have not been squeezed all the way to the breaking point. There is still some liquidity there, that the big steel corporations want to exploit in the form of record-breaking profits for themselves.

Trump is running a Soviet-style command economy, with himself at the levers, deciding who wins and who loses. First in line are his administration cronies' businesses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/05/us/politics/nucor-us-steel-tariff-exemptions.html

zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 5, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
From a ST contributor

Noturgonnadye


Aug 26, 2015 - 07:09pm PT
There is another recession coming in the next 6 to 9 months that will make the event of September 2008 look like a picnic.

My advice.....make yourself very small, liability wise.....and really take a hard look at where your money is invested.

Eliminate your debt NOW.....and live on a cash and carry basis only.

Just sayin....





And

For a rapidly growing share of older Americans, traditional ideas about life in retirement are being upended by a dismal reality: bankruptcy.

The signs of potential trouble — vanishing pensions, soaring medical expenses, inadequate savings — have been building for years. Now, new research sheds light on the scope of the problem: The rate of people 65 and older filing for bankruptcy is three times what it was in 1991, the study found, and the same group accounts for a far greater share of all filers.

Driving the surge, the study suggests, is a three-decade shift of financial risk from government and employers to individuals, who are bearing an ever-greater responsibility for their own financial well-being as the social safety net shrinks.

The transfer has come in the form of, among other things, longer waits for full Social Security benefits, the replacement of employer-provided pensions with 401(k) savings plans and more out-of-pocket spending on health care. Declining incomes, whether in retirement or leading up to it, compound the challenge.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 08:16am PT
Facebook has unpublished four of the InfoWars/Alex Jones pages, because they couldn't keep their bigoted typing yaps zipped.

I wonder what breadcrumbs QAnon is going to be dropping over this, and if DT is going to be blaming Obama for trying to gag this vital media source and hinder it's 1st Ammendment rights.

But just as importantly - NOW where are the Trump Delusionists going to get their talking points from?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 6, 2018 - 08:31am PT
I had a friend , a racist , john bircher type , that latched onto every conspiracy theory the alt-right cooked up,,,He's turned into a paranoid , fear mongering bigot who's been victimized by the so-called liberal agenda...Poor guy can't wipe his ass without thinking libs are behind bowl movements...
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 6, 2018 - 09:53am PT
California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amount of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire spreading!

—DT

Argh!

Every fvcking day there are moronic trumpies (like the one posting above) eagerly lapping up the orange malignant narcissist’s idiotic lying spew the way a dog laps up vomit.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 6, 2018 - 09:55am PT
Sen. Rand Paul goes to Moscow and invites Russians to Washington in unofficial bid to boost ties

Now the Repubs have their Hanoi Jane:

Russian Rand!
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:00am PT
With Donald Trump's strong work ethic

is that you, The Chief? gotta be a troll....

sounds like your level of intellect
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:04am PT
SeaNSummit-You all let's get this straight. You can't ignore me!
Now that's a cry for help if I've ever heard one.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:14am PT
Hanoi Jane....LMAO...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:29am PT
" when she met a real man " couldn't be the chief...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 6, 2018 - 10:39am PT
you haven't seen my demos...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 11:59am PT
sea2summit - If you're going to continue to troll with the 1970's creepster now an old-man sexual innuendos, you're going to lose your avatar. I'm sure you have at least one or two others, but this one will be toast.

As for the sources I have used, they are not anonymous "Twitter people," but real people, with legitimate histories and credentials, who post on Twitter. There *is* a difference. I have also actually met and talked with Claude Taylor.

And - there is not a single posted thing they have written that has not come to pass. Don't confuse my opinions(which admittedly have at times been off, with regards to timeframe expectations) with what I was referencing.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
You might as well get on board the Donald Trump train it's going places unlike your van


Yes, the Trump train is going places:

Lewisburg, Leavenworth, Lompoc and Loretto.


It's already made one stop, in Allenwood, Pennsylvania. That rider's fare was $20,000 and included a 30-day all-inclusive vacation.



All aboard! (heh-heh-heh-heh-heh)
 Ozzy Osbourne
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 6, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
Talk about deranged . . .


But See2Suckit, it is good that you have found a purpose in life policing the annoyingly reality-based posters on SuperTopo—Donald Trump’s balls aren’t going to lick themselves!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 01:56pm PT
Semen-bucket is not the Cheif. The Chief was an as#@&%e because he was actually a real Cheif, (the guys that run the Navy). He was real.

Semen-Bucket is a probably a washed up Instagram sports star (in his own mind). Of course that's as far as his mediocre exploits and his menial, sh#t job could take him. His white trash background and lack of talent has marginalized him from the privileged, beautiful and elite athletes that he so desperately wants to emulate.
Krease

Gym climber
the inferno
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:01pm PT
emulate? probably more like fellate.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
Geez...just ignore him (s2s/radical). You’re feeding him.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
guys, this guy sea2summitt operates very much like The Chief used to when he posted here

by that I mean his psychological profile is very consistent, he craves mostly to engage others in insults, anyone is a target other than fellow Trump ball cuppers like he is

he has no interest in actual fact based conversation but thrives on childish personal attacks

Dirtbag is right, do not give him what he wants, ignore him as you would a crying two year old
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
Good luck with that ^^^^^^^^^^^^lol.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
You're right, should ignore...couldn't resist a quick profile analysis.

Chief actually made a rational point from time to time.


WBraun

climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
LOL .......
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:45pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
Some copy and paste[Click to View YouTube Video]

Light bulbs....... lol
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 02:54pm PT
Lol...that's a pretty good IG moniker SnS! I think I know who you are. You climbed some in the Needles and Dome Rock back when? Keep it a little more tame so you don't get bounced again, we all need to laugh at ourselves once and a while.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 05:02pm PT




zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amount of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire spreading!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 5, 2018

What ever happened to @fakeDonaldTrump?

Was he busted for grabbing the pussy of a cross-dressing prostitute at Sunset and La Cienega?

All that goes downhill into the ocean is not just peepee.

Be sure to wash up before you eat Donny.



Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
I try not to take these ST politcal threads, or politics, too seriously, but Trump tweets jest piss me off.

My best revenge is having fun with the monthly questioneers the Republican Party sends me.

dirtbag

climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
Lol, fritz!
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
dirtbag! Thanks!

Xcon, Those reply forms have custom numbers for me, which I am hiding with the pitons. No fun with anything but words for me.

I do enjoy how much money the Republicans are wasting on their surveys & my "smart-ass" survey replies.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
I note our resident conservative troll is not posting this evening.

Perhaps he is off to his job as a Wal-Mart greeter, or gutting & plucking chickens at a Republican farm, or perhaps washing dishes in a 2nd or 3rd class eatery.

Those are all worthy jobs that true conservatives should seek out, to show that Latino immigrants are not wanted or needed.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 6, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
Like Dick? Well about 1/2 the people have one and most all like their own.

Anybody seen a line item comparison of Tricky and Donny?

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 11:26pm PT
Dick Cate, before Cate dicks you.


1970s high school restroom wall graffiti.
True.
Not "fake news".


Coach Richard "Dick" Cate led the Broncos to a CIF championship.

It was a high point, at the time.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 6, 2018 - 11:42pm PT
As long as the ghost of Nixon is in play:


Don't switch Dicks, in the middle of a screw;
Vote for Nixon in '72.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 01:16am PT
Nice.





The Latest:

An indicted Trump campaign official admits he conspired to commit felony crimes.

The intent, of said criminal, was to pervert the electoral process, to ensure that Trump was elected.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/06/us/politics/rick-gates-manafort-trump-trial.html





Delusional existence is a terrible state of affairs for those afflicted thereof.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 02:24am PT
I'll show you TDS.


Just, wait for it.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 06:10am PT
Chuck:

It would be nice, but a president’s words matter, so we are stuck. It’s a no win situation. Unlike certain trolls here who you can easily tune out, you can’t really tune out the President.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 7, 2018 - 06:12am PT
Sounds like Gates could get 6 years on a plea bargain so what would Manafort end up with...?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 7, 2018 - 08:07am PT
Seems like Manafort's best bet is to keep his mouth shut on Trump and hope for a pardon; I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up doing a lot less time than Gates.
(That's assuming he's convicted; the judge's repeated embarrassing take downs of Mueller's lawyers might give him some hope, but the experts' view is that he's basically guilty as can be, it's very close to an open-and-shut case. Of course what he's on trial for has no obvious connection to Trump or the campaign, just garden variety tax fraud and related financial crimes.)
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 7, 2018 - 08:24am PT
Of course what he's on trial for has no obvious connection to Trump or the campaign, just garden variety tax fraud and related financial crimes.)

Quiet... you!!!

As far as Trump goes, guilt by association is just as damning as if Trump rigged the election himself.

Move along.

zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 09:26am PT
Sold by Ivanka?

Down from $9 to $6, but still too pricey for skeet shooting




I ain't gonna put it here but there are actual trump targets


AND

Gates got a few hundred thousand of Manafort's dirty money, but that's chump change to Wilbur Ross

Alexander pulled no punches in summarizing his findings, concluding: "If even half of the accusations are legitimate, the current United States secretary of commerce could rank among the biggest grifters in American history."



https://www.businessinsider.com/wilbur-ross-120-million-grift-allegations-in-bombshell-forbes-report-2018-8
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Aug 7, 2018 - 11:11am PT
Re: the corporate censorship of Alex Jones. Thoughtful commentary IMHO.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 7, 2018 - 11:15am PT
Well they so-called fake news got it wrong about Hillary in 2016,

nope, polling showed her with an approximate 2% lead 10 days before the election

which is what she won the popular vote by, 3 million votes

just not in the right counties involving only 78k votes in four states
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Aug 7, 2018 - 11:42am PT
As long as the ghost of Nixon is in play:


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
Of course what he's on trial for has no obvious connection to Trump or the campaign, just garden variety tax fraud and related financial crimes.


Manafort's second trial is likely to have more connections to the 2016 election. Mueller is extracting the juice in a very deliberate and controlled fashion.


Mueller is not just investigating interference by Russia. Trump stuck his tiny accomplice into many countries in that region. Ukraine and Azerbaijan are just two other countries that fed Trump's money addiction. Manafort was not some random, out of work political hack. None of this was an accident.

Paul Manafort and Roger Stone basically invented the dirty lobbying industry in the 1980s. Lee Atwater was one of their partners at Black, Manafort and Stone. Trump has known Manafort and Stone since at least the early 1990s, when he hired them to smear Native Americans that competed with his Atlantic City casinos.

When Trump says that he barely knows Paul Manafort, he's lying. Duh.



It is instructive to note that Ivana and Melania are from Communist countries. Trump, for some reason, is enchanted by Soviet mythology.

That is why is is Putin's puto, and why he wants to cuddle with Kim Jong-Un.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
Alex Jones sells lies for money.


Alex Jones performs for human mushrooms.

They're in the dark, and thrive on bullsh#t.

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 12:09pm PT
No need to impeach Nixon, he resigned in discrace.

Hopefully the treasonous, criminal, misogynist and racist sh*t stain that is the tRump presidency will be cleansed the same way.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Aug 7, 2018 - 12:33pm PT
Re: Possible pardons

My guess is he will wait until after the Nov elections at a minimum.

10 months ago Newsweek wrote:
While Trump's pardon of the two men could easily be issued, the situation would be so controversial—a sitting president pardoning his own campaign workers—that intense pushback would be inevitable.

The only limit on the president’s pardoning power is that he cannot issue pardons for matters related to his potential impeachment. Since Mueller is still digging into the Trump campaign’s suspected Russia ties, a pardon could set off immediate alarm bells with Congress, which could begin impeachment proceedings to thwart Trump. That’s to say nothing of the legal challenges a Trump pardon would certainly set off.

The president has the ability to pardon federal offenses, but not state charges. Mueller’s indictment ties Manafort and Gates’ money trail to lavish purchases in New York, Florida, California, Virginia and South Carolina. The attorneys general in any of the those states could continue pursuing Manafort and Gates on local charges even if Trump got his way with a pardon.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 7, 2018 - 12:43pm PT
It is instructive to note that Ivana and Melania are from Communist countries.

That's a strange way to look at it: they're both from countries that were subjected to forced Soviet "communism" of sorts following WWII, got rid of them as quickly as they could (which was not quick, the Soviets were pretty strong, obviously), not much help from the US.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 12:46pm PT



New Poll: 43% of Republicans Want to Give Trump the Power to Shut Down Media
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 7, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
Follow the money. That is what Mueller is doing.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Aug 7, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 02:47pm PT

haha
monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 7, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
I think Claud is just trying to emphasize that Obama had a higher approval despite the great recession he was given.

Thanks Claud!
monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 7, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
You're right of course, just thanking claud for his inadvertent praise of Obama.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 7, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
Get back to me when they ban someone with some humanity for speaking truth to power.

How often do you see Noam Chomsky out there?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 7, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
monolith

Aug 7, 2018 - 02:57pm PT

I think Claud is just trying to emphasize that Obama had a higher approval despite the great recession he was given.

Yea. That's it.

Gotta be.

eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Aug 7, 2018 - 03:56pm PT
Trump is not good for the U.S., period. I mean, he is a profligate LIAR. You can't trust anything he says. Don't you Trump supporters see this? Do you LIKE to be lied to?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 7, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
Trump is not good for the U.S., period.

I thought his trade war was a horrible idea. Thought it was going to tank our over-heated economy. But it hasn't. At least not yet. If the major indices are any indication our economic health, we're doing great. And Trump gets some of the credit.

Yea, he's doing a lot of f*cked up stuff.

Regulations? We don't need no stinkin' regulayshuns!!!

Screw the environment. That's resources.

IMO the damage he's doing isn't nearly as bad as his haters would have up believe. Time will tell.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 7, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
I see it just as during Bush,people are starting to put thier wallets in a safe place.

Smell what I am stepping in.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 7, 2018 - 05:00pm PT
Layoffs from Trump tariffs are piling up. So are calls for more bailouts.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce on Monday estimated the total price tag could hit $39 billion if Trump compensated the losses across all industries. It would take $7.6 billion to help automobile and parts manufacturers alone, the Chamber said, calling it a "slippery slope" for Trump to determine who gets help and who doesn't. The Chamber has been a vocal critic of the tariffs.

Small and midsize companies are especially vulnerable to the tariffs because they are not able to absorb costs or shift production overseas as easily as larger companies


Harley-Davidson is moving some production overseas because of the tariff fight with Europe, Whirlpool blamed losses on the tariffs, and Coca-Cola and Caterpillar say they are raising prices because of higher steel and aluminum costs.

derp


John M

climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 05:09pm PT
Trump is not good for the U.S., period. I mean, he is a profligate LIAR. You can't trust anything he says. Don't you Trump supporters see this? Do you LIKE to be lied to?

They believe that Hillary was as big of a liar. They think liberals are just blind to it.

Its pretty hard to get past this. It doesn't help to pound on them. They just get more entrenched. Thats why the constant posting is a waste and doesn't do any good. Take a break people. Let things play out instead of hounding it everyday.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Aug 7, 2018 - 05:30pm PT
They believe that Hillary was as big of a liar. They think liberals are just blind to it.

Its pretty hard to get past this. It doesn't help to pound on them. They just get more entrenched. Thats why the constant posting is a waste and doesn't do any good. Take a break people. Let things play out instead of hounding it everyday.


Word. I wish I had said it.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
Yeah go to Disneyland

It doesn't help to pound on them. They just get more entrenched. Thats why the constant posting is a waste and doesn't do any good. Take a break people. Let things play out instead of hounding it everyday.

It's a small, small world folks live in

As the great locker said "it's just cheap entertainment"

Want to be impactful - go elsewhere young (or old) man





Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 10:42pm PT
They believe that Hillary was as big of a liar. They think liberals are just blind to it. Its pretty hard to get past this. It doesn't help to pound on them. They just get more entrenched. Thats why the constant posting is a waste and doesn't do any good. Take a break people. Let things play out instead of hounding it everyday.



John M

climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 10:53pm PT
whats your point? ^^^^^^

Ted Nugent threatened to kill Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton during an onstage rant. Effigies of Obama were burned at a bar in Milwaukee; as well as hung from a tree at the University of Kentucky; a building in Plains, Ga.; and a noose in the front yard of a home in Moreno Valley, Calif.

In explaining the catalyst for his Obama effigy, one man from Fairfield, Ohio, said that he didn’t want “an African American running the country.”

Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 11:02pm PT
^^You say "they" a lot.
John M

climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 11:11pm PT
so do you.. except you use "all".
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 11:21pm PT
I agreed with your "give it a rest" admonition to fellow libs. Just thought the self-important part was revealing. No worries, John M.
John M

climber
Aug 7, 2018 - 11:27pm PT
Why would you insult someone and then say "no worries"?
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 8, 2018 - 12:46am PT
No insult, rather, an observation.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 05:47am PT
This is all just phase 1.

Phase 2- When the National debt bocomes so unsustainable entitlements will be voluntarily jettisoned like weight out of a plane that's about to crash. They've been scheming this for 35 years.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 8, 2018 - 06:46am PT
That's when the Trump supporters will figure it all out, when they lose their social security disability checks.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 8, 2018 - 07:31am PT
No Gary, they won’t figure it out. They’ll blame the Mexicans.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 8, 2018 - 08:38am PT
And you are ignoring the most glaring element of the story: there's too many guns in this country.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 8, 2018 - 10:06am PT
Newsflash Judy: Fox news, AM radio, etc. ARE MEDIA.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 11:03am PT
SeaNsummit, Ok, no more sugar coating.

The uneducated, white voter is like a teenage son transitioning to adulthood. They think they know everything yet they are ill-equipped to deal with the consequences from their propensity of committing sh!tstorms of stupid decisions.
They invariably end up on the living room couch of society and blame everyone but themselves. Take Cosmic for example (literally the human pre-existing condition)- cheering Trump as he moves to eliminate the Pre-existing Condition Clause of Obamacare.

As the adults in the room, we are moving to take control of your life because we know what's best for you and we love you.

Jody is another case- I assume Jody's mysterious second job is installing cat doors, under the table of course. I find that negligent- paying no taxes and without an environmental impact study, putting cats and their owners at risk...sick!

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 11:37am PT
I thought you had a sense of humor?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 8, 2018 - 11:45am PT
The uneducated, white voter is like a teenage son transitioning to adulthood. They think they know everything yet they are ill-equipped to deal with the consequences from their propensity of committing sh!tstorms of stupid decisions

Are uneducated non-whites any different?

WBraun

climber
Aug 8, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
we are moving to take control of your life because we know what's best for you and we love

And you st00pid clueless insane people want to control everyone else?

You are definitely insane .....

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
Just throwing some humor out there...you guy's really are pansies!

Exactly Z...right over their low foreheads. Lol
John M

climber
Aug 8, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
I mean, thank you for so plainly speaking what the left's real agenda is.

you fell for his bait. He posts the most outrageous things to trigger people. Consider yourself triggered. Your bias/bitterness/judgement of the left, causes you to be vulnerable to these kinds of posts.

the far far left wants to control everything. So does the far far right. They just want to control it in different ways and directions.

the middle left and the middle right, which makes up most people, are reasonable people with their own biases that also makes them vulnerable to the extremist on both sides. Being reasonable doesn't necessarily make one right. It just means that they can be reasoned with.

Right now we are dealing with a loss of respect for reason. The reactionary is currently leading the way.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 8, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
ust throwing some humor out there...you guy's really are pansies!

Gud one. Yep, right over their heads. Werner, too. Too funny.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Aug 8, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
Let things play out instead of hounding it everyday.

Yea. It was a big mistake for the left to have all those protests against the Vietnam War. And why did so many people have NDS (Nixon Derangement Syndrome)?

And don't even get me started about all those uppity civil rights protesters...

They should have all just chilled and waited for everything to turn out roses all on its own.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 8, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
Sounds like the judge is really giving Mueller's team the works in the Manafort trial.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/08/manafort-trial-judge-ts-ellis-taunts-and-torments-mueller-team-tears-in-your-eyes.html

A snippet:
Ellis seemed to suggest a prosecutor was so discouraged he was crying in his courtroom.

“I understand how frustrated you are. In fact, there’s tears in your eyes right now,” Ellis said Monday, according to a Bloomberg-obtained transcript.

When the prosecutor, Greg Andres, denied Ellis’ claim, the judge said, “Well, they’re watery.”

That may be overly harsh on poor Andres, but come on, a seasoned federal prosecutor shouldn't be crying in court just because the judge is holding his feet to the fire.

Most commentators still think Manafort will get convicted as he's guilty as sin, but think if he gets acquitted -- could be such a black eye for Mueller he just picks up his toys and goes home at that point, might take the markets up to a new level.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
John M's got it.

That post was actually a charactiture of a liberal, elitist snob, probably wearing the latest in bird watching gear.

I build houses on the coastal strip in Southern California by the book- I know bureaucracy and over regulation like nobody... plus my wife is a redhead.

You guys seriously need to laugh once and a while.

And Brother Summit, I dropped out of high school to work construction so a grammar check or sentence diagram on occasion would be greatly appreciated.

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 8, 2018 - 02:47pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 8, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
Sounds like the judge is really giving Mueller's team the works in the Manafort trial.

—blahblah

Judge Ellis has been really hard on the prosecutors, which is fine in chambers or sidebar, but when he continually does this in front of the jury it can cause the jury to side against the prosecution.

What was very Ito-ish in its terrible inappropriateness was when Gates testified that, “Mr. Manafort was very good at knowing where the money was and where it was going,” and then Ellis interjected that, “He didn’t know about the money you were stealing, so he didn’t do it that closely,” in front of the jury. Let the defense hurl zingers like that.


https://www.ajc.com/news/national/rick-gates-testifying-paul-manafort-trial/3NgiBxK4TUenkeq21PIPHK/
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 8, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
I want to post on my favorite number 666

Problem is that every time I look at this thread, posts have moved to different positions on pages or earlier pages because people are constantly deleting posts—so enjoy your 666 post, but by tomorrow it will probably be post 658.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 8, 2018 - 05:17pm PT
Ellis is a showboat...hurry up and don't get it right , right... ? put him out to pasture...
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
In 2016, Kentucky GOP Senator Rand Paul said that Donald Trump was a "delusional narcissist".

Now, Rand Paul is Trump's errand boy, delivering love notes to Putin during recess.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/08/rand-paul-delivers-trump-letter-to-putin-administration-in-moscow.html



Rand Paul traveled to Russia, ostensibly to improve international relations. This occurred in the context of the nation's intelligence and security forces warning of an existing, ongoing Russian attack on American infrastructure and Russian interference in domestic elections.

Several months ago, an entire contingent of GOP Senators went to Russia to "smooth things over", and assure Russian officials that "bygones are bygones" (i.e., Russia's 2016 election interference in the GOP's favor was highly appreciated).

House Republicans, led by Devin "The Weasel" Nunes, actively subverted and derailed the House Intelligence Committee's investigation into Russian election interference in 2016. Nunes' committee falsely concluded that no Russian interference had occurred in 2016.

The White House's official position is also that there was no election interference; but, that it did occur; but, that it didn't affect the election results; except, that it greatly assisted Crooked Hillary in winning the popular vote.



What is with this plague of Republican traitors? Where did they come from?

And, why are their constituents still standing by them? Is there too much lead in their drinking water, or what?

I saw Trump fans cheering when he said that he "got along great with Putin". Who are these people? And why are they cheering on America's attackers?






I could stand in the middle of the Oval Office, and sell the country out to the Russians, and I wouldn't lose any voters.
 The Wilkes-Barre DOH! Boy


wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 8, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
Rand Paul visits Russia and does not get poisoned.


Reality.

Good question ,Tom.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
I took the last two days off & had an Idaho adventure hiking to some high-mountain mines:

Thanks all, for posting the various reasons why Trump & his minions are bad for our economy.

And after that respite! I still see: The Trumpian blusterers ain't shist.





Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
The economic lesson, in this video, is leave your car doors unlocked, as shown here at Lake Tahoe. The alternative might be massive damage. That happens all the time in San Francisco, these days, when human bears see a snack inside. The general rule is don't leave anything in the car, and leave the doors unlocked (I swear, that is a thing in SF these days).


[Click to View YouTube Video]







The "Trump of Parhump" has lost his brothel license, and his fellow Republicans are anxious to distance themselves from him.


https://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Nevada-pimp-Assembly-candidate-loses-brothel-13141130.php#photo-15985482


I don't know how an accelerating ban on prostitution will affect the economy.


It's not my thing.


BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Aug 8, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
Trump really doesn’t do much except follow marching orders from McConnell, right wing think tanks, and whatever he sees in a particular day on Fox & Friends and Sean Hannity.

Reagan and Clinton both talked to Independent Counsels without drama.

Trump’s lawyers fear it because he can’t speak a paragraph without lying.

What is going down right now will hurt the country for a generation, if not permanently. Presidents are not Kings, and Congress is supposed to be an independent branch of government. Between private briefings from the house intel committee and the massive act of vilifying the Special Council, which would be impossible without Fox News, we are seeing the imperial presidency, albeit one who is a 70 something child who tweets daily tantrums.

The conservative bastion George Will said this:

“The American people decided to treat the presidency as an entry level political position. This is what they get.”
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 08:50pm PT
“The American people decided to treat the presidency as an entry level political position. This is what they get.”

George Will is a voice of reason, in the current storm of insanity. I don't agree with his politics, but I admire that he is truthful, forthright, generally correct in his logic, and is staid and composed in his delivery.

George Will is, truly, the sort of person that you can discuss things with, and agree to disagree, and at the end retain admiration for him. Alex Jones is not like that.



One analogy might be a cancer patient in distress who abandons medical science in favor of "Karmic healing" that comprises paying all his money to a Svengali charlatan, to "rid oneself of toxic liquidity".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Mystery_House




Life, in general, is weird. But, the past two years have been really weird.



john hansen

climber
Aug 8, 2018 - 08:54pm PT
Hey Fritz, I just finished that book "Over the Edge of the World"

I thought it was very good. That was one hell of a trip..

Both the audacity and arrogance of man laid bare.

Great read.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 8, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
Fritz..." took the last 2 days off "...? From what...? I thought you were retired...Bailing hay and planting corn...?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
Damn. Tom, and here I’ve been making fun of La Femme making me put that stoopid Ring in.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
Dear ST friends! I am retired from working as an outdoor retail sales rep. Otherwise I keep working on the ranchette & at dealing with those who are WRONG on the internet.

john hansen! Re your post:

Hey Fritz, I just finished that book "Over the Edge of the World"

As you can tell from the photo, I'm about 1/3 of the way through & the expedition just made it to Guam.



I kinda, sorta, thought I knew about the Magellan adventure, but this book makes it very interesting & I really didn't know schist about that epic sufferfest.

It makes me want to quote a quote!

Those who don't read & remember the philosopher George Santayana (1863 -1952) are doomed to misquote him on the subject of history:

Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

This famous statement has produced many paraphrases and variants: Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.
Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.
Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.


I must argue that Trump & his minions have no appreciation, or knowledge of history.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
Aug 8, 2018 - 09:35pm PT
Almost all countries on earth do not issue refugee status to American but I just find out that Europeans start providing political refugee status to Americans after Trump
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
Jody! Thank you again, for helping me to prove my points about the lack of knowledge & general mindlessness, of you right-wing Trumpites!

Per your mindless spew!

Aug 8, 2018 - 09:35pm PT

Newsflash Judy: Fox news, AM radio, etc. ARE MEDIA.

So you admit it?! You haven't given them credit for being media until now.

Newsflash cowardlycowboy, where are CNN, CBS, NBC, NPR, MSNBC, CNBC, ABC on this? They are the onmes YOU consider to be fair and balanced media.


Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
Those who don't read & remember the philosopher George Santayana (1863 -1952) are doomed to misquote him on the subject of history:


Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
This famous statement has produced many paraphrases and variants:

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.
Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.
Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.


I must argue that Trump & his minions have no appreciation, or knowledge of history.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 09:46pm PT





The tone is from the top down.







I must argue that Trump & his minions have no appreciation, or knowledge of history.


My understanding is that Trump and his minions are intentionally seeking to erase history, and seeking to erase it from universal memory, because it works in their favor.

This is exactly what George Orwell taught us to beware of, in his book 1984.



Trump doesn't behave stupidly. It's intentional. He expects his recipients to be stupid.




What'll it take, to get you into this little-old-lady Lambo today, right now? She only drove it to church on Sunday, and never got-er outta first gear.



Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 8, 2018 - 09:57pm PT
I must argue that Trump & his minions have no appreciation, or knowledge of history.

Well as a modestly credentialed historian (BA American History; MA History-- among others), I argue that the TDR crowd has no appreciation for how morally bankrupt the presidency often is. Is this an "ordinary" presidency? No. But it's not too far off the rails--especially when compared to Jackson, Van Buren, Taylor, Buchanan, Grant, Hayes, TR, Wilson, Cal, LBJ, Nixon, or even Clinton and GWB. Not saying these were necessarily bad men--but they had their detractors. Many who were rather unhinged. Like you?

In fact, historical perspective is what far too many Trump-haters lack. IMO, of course.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 10:08pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But, what about . . . . ?


The main issue here is that Trump became president with the assistance of a foreign, hostile government. And, now that he's Center Stage, all his previous activity is about to be opened up, for the world to see.

A mastermind criminal does not suddenly want to have his entire past history exposed to public scrutiny. That defect in Trump's behavior is what will send him down.

But, it's great for the nation. MAGA.







how many provisional ballots in ohio are not going to be counted?


I'm expecting a Gerrymandered 12th district in Ohio to have engaged in some nefarious simple-math shenanigans. John Kasich, the governor there, does not seem to be a person who is willing to allow such things. Kasich does not worship at the false cult of Trump.


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
He’s done a lot of stoopid sh!t. And he’s done a lot of good. He’s called BS on the Chinese and their currency manipulation. He’s called BS on the Iran deal. He’s talked to the N Koreans. He’s pissed off the whiny hypocritical Euros. Oh, and he’s given y’all something to do.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2018 - 10:17pm PT
Lituya! Thank you for a sane post! It is much appreciated.

While I was getting my Fox-News fix today, I was somewhat amazed to hear them ripping on ex-Trump campaign manager Manafort & ex Trump advisor Rick Gates, as "a big part of the Washington DC Swamp."

In June 2016, when Donald Trump promoted Manafort to the post of campaign manager, Gates went to work for and became the campaign's number two, handling the day-to-day activities of the campaign including taking responsibility for apparent plagiarism in Melania Trump's speech at the Republican National Convention. Gates stayed on as number two in the campaign under Steve Bannon after Manafort was forced out, and then went to work as deputy chairman of the Donald Trump Inaugural Committee. He helped to form a pro-Trump nonprofit group called America First Policies but was removed from the organization after his involvement with Manafort's overseas ventures was exposed.
Wikipedia


https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/politics/manafort-trial-takeaways-day-seven/index.html

It does strongly appear, both those one-time Trump insiders are going to jail.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 8, 2018 - 11:29pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jody, you're the best.

You understand that much, here, is just entertainment.


But, on a more serious note, how can you reconcile all the criminal indictments and trials and jailing of Trump's people with an idea that he is Great?

Trump denies that Russia and Putin are attacking us.

I don't get it.

Educate me, Jody.

Tell me how it makes good, logical sense that America should be in bed with Russia, when they are attacking us.


The weirdest thing, in my life, is that the Republicans who used to hate Russia are now wanting to be best friends with Russia. And, there is no benefit to Americans, except, maybe, some Big Money Americans who have access to free and easy and dirty Russian money.

#SAD



It appears that an American addiction to money will be its downfall. Addiction to drugs, a common theme, is not the problem. The bigger problem is an addiction to money. Cocaine on Wall Street is a confluence of both problems, but the driving force is an addiction to money, and not an addiction to cocaine. The cocaine use on Wall Street is in furtherance of satiating money addictions.



Gaining money, and firing on all 12 cylinders of the pleasure centers of the brain, is just like a drug.


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 12:45am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Right there.


There is a terrible idiocy infecting our society that money makes the man, and that money is the true measure of success.


Money is just the working fluid, like air through a gas turbine, that enables the economic machine to work.





I think that an analog of the Carnot Cycle looks about like this:



INTAKE: money is taken into an economic machine during an isoprofit investment process.

COMPRESSION: the money is compressed during an isomonetary labor process.

IGNITION: the money is expanded in an isoprofit extraction process.

EXHAUST: the money is exhausted in an isomonetary payroll process.



Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 06:12am PT
Tom-
The weirdest thing, in my life, is that the Republicans who used to hate Russia are now wanting to be best friends with Russia. And, there is no benefit to Americans, except, maybe, some Big Money Americans who have access to free and easy and dirty Russian money.
This baffled me as well. Early on I assumed the establishment Republicans and the Skull and Crossbones crowd would use Trump for tax cuts, judicial nominees and Supreme Court justices and then employ some sort of sleazy exit plan.

Not only have they not distanced themselves as the Russia probe intensifies, they've doubled down on their attacks on the probe and circled the wagons around Trump.

This is very complicated but the short version is this:

Obama was a warning sign to right wing ideologues, predatory corporations and racist. A popular black technocrat who, with the Paris Accord, Obamacare and a retraction from unilateral foreign policy, had slightly turned the rudder of our country towards a Western European style of governance. He was happy to get in line with other countries and thought that American Exceptionalism had only created wars and undue financial burdens through unnecessary deployments. The biggest fear here is the alignment with the European model of pragmatic policy making in terms of mandated green economies, severe regulation on industry, a robust social, safety net through taxation and an emphasis on human rights. There's pretty much something there for everyone to hate. The powers that be know that once workers have free things and have to work less they are nearly impossible to unwind. We are also programmed to support and defend the unfettered pursuit of wealth in this country (Citizens United, etc.).

So enter the Russins, Israel and the Sunni Nations. These are the clear winners if America moves away from Nato. A new alliance to stretch out the oil based economies as long as possible along with a cabal of countries willing to abuse human rights in the name of economic policy.

What's the common denominator? Like pre-world war II Germany- Corporations, conservative religious groups and a reactionary political faction have created an alliance to preserve what each element sees as preserving a way of life.

This is just an observation and I think Obama was mostly doing the right thing but a full blown Western European style of government is not a good fit here.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 9, 2018 - 08:29am PT
Why I waste time here is beyond me. Maybe it is because you fools are so entertaining.

Jody, you are more fun than Lois was..
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Aug 9, 2018 - 09:33am PT
Fritz:
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.
Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.
Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

History, read it and weep.

-Kurt Vonnegut
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 9, 2018 - 09:53am PT
"So it goes." - Kurt Vonnegut

In happier news, voters in Missouri, which Trump won in 2016, rejected a Right to Work proposition. (More accurately known as Right to Work for Less)

Maybe people are finally figuring out Trump.

Fueled by more than $15 million in campaign spending and laser-sharp attention from national labor unions, voters solidly rejected an attempt to make Missouri a “right to work” state.

With 100 percent of precincts reporting early Wednesday, unofficial results showed the ballot question asking whether the Show-Me State wanted to join 27 others in allowing private-sector workers to not pay dues to a labor organization had flamed out about 2 to 1.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/democrats-unions-declare-victory-as-right-to-work-loses-by/article_d75fc640-45e0-5ecc-93c9-91cecca36113.html
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 9, 2018 - 10:02am PT
the continuing story of bungling Thomas Selby (Born: May 15, 1940 (age 78 years), Bogotá)

Not a true Kenyan, but close to it.

Jody informed me Bogotá is in Botswana.




“This robe doesn’t make me anything other than human,” Ellis told the court on Thursday morning after instructing the jury to forget what he had said to the Mueller team about the IRS witness. “You’ve got to put that aside.”

What would it take to make him humane?


Look out Ellis, the Obama crew qwine getcha.


blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 9, 2018 - 10:15am PT
This is just an observation and I think Obama was mostly doing the right thing but a full blown Western European style of government is not a good fit here.

Ha, it's not necessarily a great fit there either for most people, the establishment there is getting its butt kicked just like here.
As to the relative success of US compared to Europe, it's kind of hard to say: both have a lot of people doing well and lot of people not doing so well. (The libs love to crow about Scandinavia, but not so much about the PIGS. Always fun to cherry pick data I suppose.)
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Aug 9, 2018 - 10:18am PT
Trump is the first president in a long time that is trying to help our economy and bring jobs back.

"When President Bill Clinton signed off on the North American Free Trade Agreement and the General Agreement on Trade & Tariffs in 1993, otherwise known as NAFTA/GATT, he quite literally slashed the economic throat of the United States. We've been hemorrhaging jobs to foreign nations like Communist China ever since."

World Trade on the seas creates a lot of pollution and greenhouse gases. It accounts for 86% of all fuel use. Way more than all the cars in the world with dirty bunker fuel. Buy local, keep jobs local and help save the planet. Trade should be a barter system where you actually trade vs. destroying the other economy.

Next thing that needs addressed is the runaway population in areas that cannot provide enough resources and overpopulation in general and the pollution it creates. If you don't see this as a problem, you may be the problem. Our seas are getting close to dying from all the pollution we humans put in them. Nations are trying to overtake other nations with trade. Each nation needs to learn how to provide for themselves or maybe you have too many people to support. Hence, the refugees. A global trade system creates too many dependent connections like growing all crops with the same genes. One bad bug and it wipes you out completely. The World so to speak.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 9, 2018 - 10:28am PT
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 10:56am PT
sNs- I love the Needles and I'm sure we could get a good laugh about these politard rants!

A hurricane swell due to hit tonight, the water is warm and it's frickin hot!

Have fun!

We coaxed Ron (white shirt) out for a climb last time I was at the Needles. Hit Hermit Spire a couple on months ago...love it!
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 9, 2018 - 12:25pm PT
Trump is the first president in a long time that is trying to help our economy and bring jobs back.

Huh? Seriously, you think Trump is in this for anyone other than himself? He's a great distraction while the kleptocrats continue to gut the economy, an he'll grab whatever he can in the meantime.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
The climate-change deniers get to have their very own conference to deny all sorts of stuff with full Trump support. No doubt, many of them are also "Flat-Earthers."

At 'America First Energy Conference', solar power is dumb, climate change is fake.

Pumping carbon dioxide into the air makes the planet greener; the United Nations puts out fake science about climate change to control the global energy market; and wind and solar energy are simply “dumb”.

The second annual conference, organized by the conservative thinktank the Heartland Institute, pulled together speakers from JunkScience, the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, and the Center For Industrial Progress, along with officials from the U.S. Department of Interior and the White House for panels that included: “Carbon Taxes, Cap & Trade, and Other Bad Ideas,” “Fiduciary Malpractice: The Sustainable Investment Movement,” and “Why CO2 Emissions Are Not Creating A Climate Crisis.”

Tim Huelskamp, president and CEO of the Heartland Institute, said the views presented at the conference – once on the fringes of U.S. politics – would be proven right.

“The leftist claims about sea level rise are overblown, overstated or frankly just wrong,” he said in an interview. Regarding the United Nations’ findings on climate change, he said it was “fake science” motivated by a desire for “power and control.”

A similar conference blasting the link between fossil fuels and climate change last year drew then-Environmental Protection Agency chief Scott Pruitt, who was appointed by Trump to reverse Obama-era climate initiatives and roll back regulation hindering drillers and miners but who has since resigned in a flurry of ethical controversies.

In the conference exhibit hall, the words “Coming Soon!” in big orange letters framed a Heartland Institute advertisement for the fifth volume in its “Climate Change Reconsidered” book series. Attendees also passed around a book titled “Dumb Energy: A Rant Against Wind and Solar Energy.”

The more than 40 speakers praised Trump for withdrawing from the Paris climate accords, a global agreement to fight climate change mainly by cutting carbon emissions; and for rolling back regulations to allow oil companies to lead the biggest energy surge in the nation’s history

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange/at-america-first-energy-conferenc-solar-power-is-dumb-climate-change-is-fake-idUSKBN1KU1Y1

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 12:53pm PT
Trump is the first president in a long time that is trying to help our economy and bring jobs back.


Yes, you must go into the Wayback Machine, and travel to the Teapot Dome Scandal to find a president who is, you know, "helping, like". It's like he says - it's mostly odd things he does.






Wilbur Ross is one of the most money-addicted people on Trump's staff - and that is really saying something. Ross steals handfuls of Sweet-n-Low from restaurants because he is too lazy to tell his housekeeper to buy a box from the store. Ross' PR team's spin to the newspapers?

"He doesn't use sweetener in his coffee. HA! So, there! I know you are, but what am I?"




Wilbur Ross will probably be one of many Trump staffers to be indicted. He's already alerted ethics observers to his failure to divest himself from financial conflicts of interest.

Scott Pruitt, ex-EPA villain, thinks he's off the hook because he resigned and is no longer on the Front Page.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT.

Guess again.



Just because the cops are busy getting a cat out of a tree doesn't mean that a bank robber won't be caught.


StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 12:58pm PT
Greed is all that matters. The more Rome burns, the harder the oligarchs will fiddle.

mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
Aug 9, 2018 - 01:10pm PT
^^^^ For reasons like this....


Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
ATF-In a recent pole a majority of Republicans want to give Trump the power to shut down news outlets and newspapers of his choice.

Perhaps you can personally give him a list of the anti Trump politards here. I understand they're handing out some cool arm bands for that type of loyalty.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
ATG! Per your question:
Why is this p.o.s. thread not dead yet?


Maybe it's time for you to take direct action.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 9, 2018 - 01:39pm PT


wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 9, 2018 - 04:22pm PT
“Effen Brain Dead Sheep”


Russian Asbestos to you,soon......lol.

So ,as the canary in the coal mine ,construction is slowing down over here and quick like. Lumber yards I deal with are worried,it cost a full 10k more to build a 1800 square foot home today that it did a year ago.

Who is going to make America good again?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2018 - 07:13pm PT
The “somewhat- conservative” magazine for rich people, Forbes, just published a scathing article about Trump’s Secretary of Commerce, Wilber Ross.

Rather than draining the swamp, it appears now that Trump brought much bigger monsters to the swamp.

I just don’t understand how folks on here can keep defending Trump's behavior.

And yes, Wilber Ross is going to jail.


From Forbes:

If even half of the accusations are legitimate, the current United States secretary of commerce could rank among the biggest grifters in American history.


It is difficult to imagine the possibility that a man like Ross, who Forbes estimates is worth some $700 million, might steal a few million from one of his business partners. Unless you have heard enough stories about Ross. Two former WL Ross colleagues remember the commerce secretary taking handfuls of Sweet’N Low packets from a nearby restaurant, so he didn’t have to go out and buy some for himself. One says workers at his house in the Hamptons used to call the office, claiming Ross had not paid them for their work. Another two people said Ross once pledged $1 million to a charity, then never paid. A commerce official called the tales “petty nonsense,” and added that Ross does not put sweetener in his coffee.

There are bigger allegations. Over several months, in speaking with 21 people who know Ross, Forbes uncovered a pattern: Many of those who worked directly with him claim that Ross wrongly siphoned or outright stole a few million here and a few million there, huge amounts for most but not necessarily for the commerce secretary. At least if you consider them individually. But all told, these allegations—which sparked lawsuits, reimbursements and an SEC fine—come to more than $120 million.

Those who’ve done business with Ross generally tell a consistent story, of a man obsessed with money and untethered to facts. “He’ll push the edge of truthfulness and use whatever power he has to grab assets,” says New York financier Asher Edelman. One of Ross’ former colleagues is more direct: “He’s a pathological liar.”

Donald Trump termed Ross a “legendary Wall Street genius” and named him to his cabinet. “In these particular positions,” Trump explained to a crowd of supporters, “I just don’t want a poor person.”

From Ross’ vantage point, Trump offered the perfect exit. The future cabinet secretary’s private equity funds were underperforming—one on track to lose 26% of its initial value and another two dribbling out mediocre returns—and the accusations were starting to pile up. Roughly two months before the 2016 presidential election, the SEC announced WL Ross was paying a fine and refunding $11.9 million it allegedly skimmed from its investors, including interest.

On November 1, 2017, Ross signed a sworn document, attesting that he had divested all the assets he promised he would. That was not true. The commerce secretary in fact still owned somewhere between $10 and $50 million worth of stock in WL Ross’ parent company, Invesco. Ross sold his shares a month later, banking at least $1.2 million more than he would have if he sold in May, when he initially promised to divest. By falsely claiming he gotten rid of the shares earlier, Ross also put himself in legal jeopardy, since it is a crime to lie to federal officials.

Representatives for Ross, a sophisticated investor, claimed the commerce secretary did not lie but instead failed to realize he owned the shares.

The central matter in all of Ross’ legal issues is his own credibility. “Lying on an ethics disclosure form, to Congressional and Senate committees, and falsely reporting compliance with an ethics plan, is neither ‘commonplace’ nor part of the accepted rough-and-tumble world of politics,” David Storper, Ross’ former right-hand man, argued in a court filing. “They are just lies.” Adds another onetime colleague: “This is a public servant who can’t tell the truth.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2018/08/06/new-details-about-wilbur-rosss-businesses-point-to-pattern-of-grifting/

Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 9, 2018 - 07:29pm PT
Cosmic there (sic) all the same except Contractor he has a sack.

Watch out Contractor, apparently see2suckit has developed a taste for sac, but you should be safe as long as your sac isn’t orange with a comb-over . . .





edit—fvcking cowardly pussy deleted his post
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 08:39pm PT
Alright ATG, this isn't a Tony Robbins seminar. It's a political thread on a forum- we're here to put our views out there and have them sh#t upon. It's a exercise in humility. SeaNsummit is a total dick here but I'm sure he's laughing at the sh#t he writes and I get a kick out of it.

For the record I consider you a friend and I don't know very many people that have gone to Africa to help those who the world has ignored need, good on you!

I'll look for those cool weather veins on the "show me what your building" thread...no bullsh!t there, just good vibes.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 9, 2018 - 09:26pm PT
Cheers ATG, Equilibrium and adaptability in our politics and Society is very often achieved by conflict and opposition within the framework of our laws.

God help us if everyone thought like I did!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 10, 2018 - 05:04am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 10, 2018 - 06:23am PT
One thing you have to admire about President Trump is how he's always looking out for the little guy.


It’s practically a dictionary definition to say that banks provide financial services. But when it comes to the new tax law, that’s not how the Treasury Department sees it.

Officials there have decided that nearly 2,000 banks are not financial services firms and therefore their owners qualify for a lower tax liability under the $1.5-trillion Republican tax-cut legislation that took effect Jan. 1.

The determination, sought by the banking industry, was one of dozens in 184 pages of proposed regulations issued this week by the Treasury’s Internal Revenue Service that will allow high-income owners to claim a new tax deduction as part of an expansive interpretation of who gets the break designed for so-called pass-through businesses.

...“Most of us had thought that banks are financial services. The House Financial Services Committee regulates banks. The Financial Services Roundtable represents banks,” he said.

“It does lead to a bad headline for Treasury and the IRS,” he said. “This so-called middle class tax break goes to those who own banks.”
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-pass-through-taxes-20180810-story.html

Diehard Republicans like Fritz will no doubt be applauding this helping hand being extended to the banks. The winning just doesn't stop.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 10, 2018 - 08:15am PT
frostback

Aug 10, 2018 - 07:44am PT
According to Ontario Climbing, you trumpies are a bunch of deadbeat milkman, cosmic in particular gets singled out for a mention....
to whit

"Deadbeat Milkman - The Milkman is the guy that always delivers. Just ask your mom. A Deadbeat Milkman, however, is a guy who never delivers. Either he regularly botches the crux, talks sh#t and can't live up to the spray, or forgets to bring the hammock to the crag.
Usage: "Wow, Dwain was talking about some sick new project. He sounds like one seriously hardcore climber!" "No, the dude's a Deadbeat Milkman. I can't even remember the last time he sent."

Look at Frostback. Sprayin' the latest lingo... from Ontario Climbing, no less.

Woke?

Nah. Just another poseur.

BTW It's To wit.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 10, 2018 - 08:17am PT
There's climbing in Ontario?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 10, 2018 - 08:29am PT
whats with his tan not working around his eyeballs?!?!


Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 10, 2018 - 09:11am PT
Frostback, that was hilarious. TFPU
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 10, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
I like the perspective and scope of elements woven together into this essay:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/08/frank-rich-2008-financial-crisis-end-of-american-dream.html

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 10, 2018 - 04:40pm PT
Trump's tariff on Canadian newsprint has given him an added benefit: destruction of print media companies.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/us/politics/newsprint-tariffs-newspapers-trump.html


Trump desperately wants to destroy all media news organizations (Fox and InfoWars are not news organizations) to conceal his nefarious and diabolical activities from the public. By making newspapers too expensive to print, Trump has won a minor victory in his battle for reality.

Trump's revocation of Net Neutrality rules is another tactic he is using to destroy legitimate information sources in the United States, so that he can establish and control a self-serving propaganda service, like an American version of Pravda.



Trump is a madman who must be stopped.
 Governor Bobby Jindal, 2016
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 10, 2018 - 06:02pm PT



[Click to View YouTube Video]
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 10, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
^^^ cool video... logging that method away in my mind for when the next apocalypse comes.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 10, 2018 - 07:13pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Says who? Says who? Says who? Says who?
 Michael Cohen, 2016



https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/democratic-senator-says-don-jr-may-have-lied-congressional-testimony-n877531

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/03/ivanka-trump-organization-vancouver

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/nyregion/gotti-federal-sentence.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1970/03/10/archives/bonanno-son-gets-4-years-in-prison-codefendant-in-credit-card.html

http://gangsterreport.com/jailed-philly-mob-boss-son-convicted-set-to-join-dear-old-dad/

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-03-19/news/mn-5943_1_leona-helmsley-sentenced

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/09/29/madoff-son-was-under-scrutiny-until-the-day-he-died.html




Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2018 - 07:51pm PT
Despite the best efforts of some posters to keep this thread worthy of SuperTopo, those with a 3rd grade attitude, have turned it into an insult-fest.

I'm sorry for the Trumpian 3rd graders posting here, & their spews, but those folks are his base.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 10, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Private or public, if someone violates the law, they should not be exempt from investigation and prosecution just because they are family.







Trump is good for the economy - if you're an insider.


The next big scandal to hit the Trump Administration will be how Wilbur Ross has personally profited from selective exemptions from steel and aluminum tariffs.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/391646-fox-news-host-calls-out-wilbur-ross-over-conflicts-of-interest-on-investments

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/25/us-exempts-south-korea-from-steel-tariffs.html


Wilbur Ross has a direct and conflicted interest in steel being imported from South Korea, which he and Trump have exempted from tariffs.





Trump has doubled the tariff on Turkish steel and aluminum, to 50% and 20%, respectively.

Trump's original justification for his tariffs on metals was a claim of a national security threat. Wilbur Ross was the first to propose this.

Trump's motive for doubling the Turkish tariffs is ostensibly the continued detention of an American pastor who was supposedly involved in a failed coup in Turkey. It is difficult to imagine how the pastor's detention is a national security threat.

More likely, currency speculators associated with Trump are profiting from the drop in the value of the Turkish Lira.


We are witnessing insider trading on a global scale.



#MEGA

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
Thank you Cosmic, for proving my point, you 3rd grader Trumpist.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Aug 11, 2018 - 07:58am PT
Ground Chuck: is it any wonder that the rumpster has not one meaningful relationship with anyone on earth but himself. 

Ha ha.

I’ll bet that could be said for many men. It could have been said of me 20 years ago.

If the indication of immaturity being referred to here is a sense of surety about what’s what, then the majority of posters here would qualify. Intimacy is not usually a man’s quality until he gets old and humbled (and then . . . ).
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:23am PT
Wilbur Ross has a direct and conflicted interest in steel being imported from South Korea, which he and Trump have exempted from tariffs.
Haha, most everybody in Washington DC has a conflict of interest.
https://www.amazon.com/Throw-Them-All-Peter-Schweizer/dp/0547573146

The recent insider trading bust on that republican is the tip of the iceberg.
From the elected officials themselves to the businessmen husbands of too many elected women in congress.
The more power concentrated in DC, the more corruption...it really is a swamp full of psychopaths...scientifically corroborated.
https://www.sciencealert.com/psychopath-capital-of-the-us-according-science-states-ranked-washington-dc
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2018 - 09:44am PT
Speaking of psychopaths!

Former White House staffer Omarosa Manigault Newman claims in a new book that there are tapes of President Donald Trump using racial slurs and that she saw him behaving “like a dog off the leash” at numerous events he attended without his wife, first lady Melania Trump.

The accusations are among a long list of scandalous claims contained in her new book, “Unhinged,” set to come out Aug. 14. The Associated Press purchased an early copy of the memoir, which the White House has already slammed as “riddled with lies and false accusations.”

In the book, Manigault Newman, who was a contestant on Trump’s “The Apprentice” reality show and later served as a senior adviser to the president, hurls a litany of allegations, painting the president as scattered, self-absorbed, misogynistic and insecure.

Trump, she said she’d concluded after years of defending him, was a bigot.

Throughout the book, Manigault Newman paints a deeply critical portrait of the president, describing him as a man who “loved conflict, chaos and confusion; he loved seeing people argue or fight.” She says she had seen him acting inappropriately at numerous events he attended without his wife at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, including birthday parties, fundraisers and golf tournaments.

She also alleges that Trump has exhibited signs of a “mental decline that could not be denied” and says she went as far as printing out a study linking Diet Coke consumption to dementia and strokes and putting it in his briefing stack.
https://www.snopes.com/ap/2018/08/10/book-omarosa-says-trump-bigot-behaved-like-dog/
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 11, 2018 - 10:14am PT

And speaking of Hedge, I miss Joe.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 10:48am PT
The main issue here is that Trump became president with the assistance of a foreign, hostile government. And, now that he's Center Stage, all his previous activity is about to be opened up, for the world to see.

Yes, you keep saying this over and over and over.

Waiting.

And what's more, you're all saying it to each other and hearing it from all the people you know.

Waiting.

So it must be true!

Waiting.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 11, 2018 - 03:36pm PT
So just how do you quantify the Russians’ ‘meddling’? By the decibels of anguish?
Since damn near most Murricans don’t vote then what’s the difference?
monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 11, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
It is a known fact

roflmao!
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
So just how do you quantify the Russians’ ‘meddling’?

Do you think if somebody knows the answer that person would be reading the ST?
jogill

climber
Colorado
Aug 11, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
Just looking in. Good to see TDS is alive and well!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
^^^what a dumb, and smug, remark.




wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 11, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
The Real problem;
How he won ,not these two states specifically.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 11, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
Please quote the source of the “known fact” that a concerted effort by the tRump campaign and Russia could not sway a very small % of the vote in key states, after tRump lost the popular vote.

Add in the gullible people that thought Obama was Kenyan and the ones that still believe Pizzagate.

And don’t forget the ones that thought the moon landing was faked.

And don’t forget the Sandy Hook hoax crowd.

And the ones that think the end of the world is near, every single year.

Edit

‘Merica is slipping into the Twilight Zone. Liberal/Conservative is a good, positive dynamic. We are now headed down the Rabbit Hole.


Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 11, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
Trump Says Jeff Sessions Is ‘Scared Stiff’ At ‘Rigged’ Justice Department

The president accused the attorney general of being MIA in a tweet from his New Jersey golf resort.

He has now spent 180 days of his Presidency at his golf resorts.


zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 05:39pm PT



dirtbag

climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
He has now spent 180 days of his Presidency at his golf resorts.


Wonderful! Maybe he should retire so he could golf full time?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 06:01pm PT


Basic facts should encourage people of conscience to resist Donald Trump. This is not derangement but rational and reasonable behavior
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 11, 2018 - 06:20pm PT
Yes, everyone should acquiesce to the most corrupt administration in 100 years. Just like the Republicans in congress. They have definitely displayed the selfish attitude required to be a Republican. Screw you, I got mine. Devon Nunes will even get reelected after he told supporters that he was acting to protect Trump from justice.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
Per previous posts on President Trumps #Huge numbers of days playing golf & having fun during his reign:


He has now spent 180 days of his Presidency at his golf resorts.

Wonderful! Maybe he should retire so he could golf full time?


Why should Trump retire, when we taxpayers pay for his golf trips & the hotel bills for the Secret Service agents & various Trump assistants that stay in his expensive hotels at his expensive golf-courses?

Due to his lies & continuing ownership of his hotels & golf resorts, he's making a still larger-fortune off American taxpayers.

And, of course, a few conservatives on this thread, will still support him & hate anyone that reports negative facts about our lazy, greedy, & insane president.




wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 11, 2018 - 06:46pm PT
Yes,deny the fact you need the electoral college.
Yes ,Cali should be eliminated from voting,New York as well.
Under representation of a majority is alive and well,we should all aspire to live in Iowa. Yes.


See how petty and selfish your opinion is.

All about you.
John M

climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
Jody.. I keep deleting my post to you.

Have you forgotten just how crazy the republicans were to Obama? I can only surmise that you have considering your letter to the editor and your attitude on this forum.

I would say a large portion of the country has gone nuts. Aren't you wise enough to rise above it? Why do you join in and help perpetuate it with your hatred?

Edit:

Can't you remember the right saying that they would oppose everything Obama did, and that was before he even took office? How is that reasonable? Are you blind to this?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 06:48pm PT
few conservatives on this thread

sorry Fritz they left a long time ago

the de-rangerettes are all that is left



Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 11, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
Abolish Ca?!?! The solution would be to abolish Jody. The man who "hates negativity with the whole fiber of his being" but only posts negative crap. Not to mention how he spends plenty of time in Ca.Hypocrite just like the rest of them.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 11, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
Let’s see,legal dumping of waste in rivers,Coal,anything petroleum,hey ,let’s bring back Asbestos,cars with less emission controls,anything good for capitalism,restriction free.

Because it is good for the economy.



How about some chips?wtf


Acid Rain,bring it back......
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 11, 2018 - 07:46pm PT
We are very sad to announce that CaseLabs and its parent company will be closing permanently. We have been forced into bankruptcy and liquidation.

The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80% (partly due to associated shortages), which cut deeply into our margins.


-Add this to all the "good" that Trump is doing for America, JODY


Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 11, 2018 - 07:49pm PT

Hey Jody


monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 11, 2018 - 07:51pm PT
CaseLabs is a California company, so the cons will cheer the news.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:06pm PT
Birtherism lasted past the end of Obama's term. Arpiao is still birthing.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
The Trump stuff is true. Big difference.
WBraun

climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
The consciousness in this thread is very low and st00pid.

You people are insane ......
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
Trump doesn't. His grammar, spelling and speaking is horrible.
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Aug 11, 2018 - 11:17pm PT
Cosmic, I am a 'liberal'...………..

what do you have to say to me ?
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Aug 11, 2018 - 11:18pm PT
I hunt
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Aug 11, 2018 - 11:19pm PT
I fish
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Aug 11, 2018 - 11:25pm PT
But I am not a fan of a chaotic narcissist who has been bankrupt 8-9? times trying to take pot shots at the world economy.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Aug 12, 2018 - 12:40am PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 12, 2018 - 02:08am PT
Trump is rapidly losing support. Insanity can only take someone so far. Lunacy is not especially endearing.


Melania's family attorney prefers to use the word "unconscionable".

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Melania-Trump-immigration-lawyer-unconscionable-13149055.php



At what point does the petulant child on the playground have to give the ball back to the other children, and stop pretending he's King Ding-Dong?



I was a doorbell in a former life. The best. People would ring me, and, you know, I'd make the greatest sound. And, the owner would come to see who was at the door, and it would be amazing. People would meet, and get to know each other. And, sometimes, there was trade negotiation, with a post man and a package and a pen. Trust me. I was the best, ever.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 12, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
I'll take Querencia for fifty cents, Alex.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 12, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
The orange sh1t gibbon called for boycott of Harley Davidson

That should really boost the economy. WINNING

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/12/politics/trump-harley-davidson-overseas-manufacturing/index.html
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 12, 2018 - 05:50pm PT
Good video Jim,This is the Mob.

But ,the economy is cranking.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 12, 2018 - 06:11pm PT
Donald Trump Is Now As Unpopular As Nixon Was When He Resigned

A new poll released this week shows that President Donald Trump is as disliked as President Richard M. Nixon was on the day he resigned from office.

The Marist College Poll is reporting that only 20% of Americans find Donald Trump's job performance as "excellent,"

13% said the President's job performance is "fair," with 45% reporting it as "poor."
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 12, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
The entertainment value keeps improving watching Trump swinging the broom handle wildly at the pinata better known as the United States of America,,,,,atta boy donald...
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 12, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
If our Nation's Fathers had not designed such an ingenious political system, backed by an amazing document, this president would anoint himself President forever in a Mar-a-Lago minute.

As it is, Lieutenant Sulu has max power to the front shields and they're down to 30% as these assho!es are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at our checks and balances.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 12, 2018 - 08:01pm PT
Yes...Collusion actually isn't illegal...As long as it occurs in a wetland...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 12, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 12, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
We have a new bail boy...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 13, 2018 - 08:16am PT
Not Pelosi.

Feinstein

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/08/01/details-chinese-spy-dianne-feinstein-san-francisco/
John M

climber
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:07am PT
I could see removing Strzok from the investigation, but firing him over personal texts? Shouldn't he have the right to have his opinion? It wasn't hatred of a group just because they are different, which is what white nationalism is all about. That kind of thing is different.

So the next FBI director who is appointed by a liberal can fire anyone who dislikes liberals.

good grief.

Edit: Isn't this a form of political correctness? you can't have an opinion about a politician and be above board in how you do your job?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:10am PT
Strozk's firing isn't going to save trump's un-patriotic ass...
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:27am PT



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:28am PT
FBI employees should always be held to a higher professional standard than the President of the United States...
John M

climber
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:35am PT
I mostly agree with you DMT, but I am ignorant on one part of this, does this mean that people in business and agencies like the FBI need to carry two phones so that they can text private messages? How do people work in this new world? Oops.. I called you on my work phone.

Its one thing to send texts out publicly using a work phone/computer.. and using work stationary, as though this is an official position, but these were private messages not meant for public consumption.

So help me understand.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 13, 2018 - 10:39am PT
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 13, 2018 - 10:53am PT
Well, no, actually the solution would be to abolish CA.

Are you sure about that, Jody? And abolish your pension?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 13, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
https://twitter.com/JohnKasich/status/1029033017602465792


Trump made one of his Little Snot Tweets putting down John Kasich, and Kasich responded with the GIF of Putin "finding the humor in that."
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 13, 2018 - 01:00pm PT


[Click to View YouTube Video]
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Aug 13, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
does this mean that people in business and agencies like the FBI need to carry two phones so that they can text private messages? How do people work in this new world? Oops.. I called you on my work phone.

Plenty of people in the office I work in carry two phones.

Although plenty send personal messages on the office phone also.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Aug 13, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
FBI employees should always be held to a higher professional standard than the President of the United States...

Too bad it isn't easier to fire the president...
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 13, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 13, 2018 - 02:36pm PT
FBI employees should always be held to a higher professional standard than the President of the United States...

everyone is held to a higher standard than that POS...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 13, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
I know...I was being sarcastic....as usual...
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 13, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
You really shouldn't be so jealous about my pension.

I'm not jealous at all, you earned it and then some. But why would you bite the hand that feeds you? Why attack the state that has been your home and livelihood?
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 13, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
"She's a lowlife"

takes one to know one...
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 13, 2018 - 04:39pm PT
He also said “not smart” in his tweet. It seems to me that there is a definite pattern to Trump’s tweets about blacks vis à vis “low intelligence” as opposed to low energy, etc.

https://www.theroot.com/donald-trumps-tweets-about-black-people-by-the-numbers-1828150682
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 13, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
Cosmic is coming unhinged...
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 13, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
Freedom is in the eye of the beholder. I am sure part of your beef is with guns. The states strict gun laws make me feel safer and therefore more free. Lots of other examples I can think of. How about prop 13, a Libertarian wet dream

Cosmic hates CA except when he comes here to work.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
Jody! Per your response & answer!

Aug 13, 2018 - 07:03pm PT

Why attack the state that has been your home and livelihood?

Because it is the least free state in the country, that's why.


Poor Jody. Why don't you move?

But please!

Don't move to Idaho, which is as un- free as California, with horrible things like income, property, sales, & gasoline taxes, & laws that keep folks from building what & where they want. Our Republican bosses also condone a huge nuclear waste site, built over permeable aquifers that water most of south Idaho.

My cousins want folks to not move to Idaho.



May I suggest Somalia!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 13, 2018 - 07:39pm PT
The Choss Creek Chompers...Someone Jody and Cosmic could co-exist with...
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 13, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
People who talk about wanting more freedom have no clue about the individual freedoms they are losing by supporting political groups that favor corporate freedoms.

As long as there are other people than our own selves on this planet, our actions have interconnected consequences, and there is a linkage between freedom and responsibility. When we give freedoms to corporations that do not exercise responsibility, then the logical civilized solution is regulation. Regulations exist to protect us from corporations, which by their very charter exist to make profits, with lesser if any regard for ensuring humans can breath oxygen, have clean water, have unpoisoned food, have just compensation and see the fruits of their labor, etc.

This is the legal apparatus by which rich people can aggregate more wealth, providing a degree of legal and moral insulation to not have to see the distasteful things done to acquire more wealth. It provides plausible deniability, ignorance is bliss. Thus the plunderers can kick in the teeth and steal bread from starving kids without even requiring the fortitude to look them in the eye and acknowledge that it is happening. It is sort of like the evolution of food, from seeing an animal die in service of our sustenance, to just thinking of meat that magically appears in plastic wrap in a grocery store. Keep the ugliness tucked away to avoid the unpleasant feelings of guilt.

And the only way this system goes on in a democratic society, is because bobble-headed regurgitators of political platforms spout "don't take away my freedoms" all the while contributing to the loss of freedoms they are too ignorant to recognize they are losing.

For the record: I am not at all anti-capitalist or anti-corporation. I believe that capitalism is a great system to promote efficiency, and corporations are a beautiful way to organize toward that end. That being, efficiency and profitability should not be the pinnacles of human existence, and we as a society with a government should make corporate and capitalist efficiencies subordinate to our greater needs like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness- to the extent that our pursuits do not infringe on the rights of others in the little and the big picture.

Alright, I'm going to back away from the keyboard and go fix a flat tire before I give myself a hernia or detached retina getting all amped up on the war of ideas.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
I get it now, freedom is not how I feel, it is how Jody feels for me. Need a What Is Freedom Thread.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:17pm PT
Freedom is in the eye of the beholder. I am sure part of your beef is with guns. The states strict gun laws make me feel safer and therefore more free. Lots of other examples I can think of.

They say the pen is mightier than the sword--right? Oh the laws you will surely support in the days ahead.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
Freedom is a state of mind. Everything else is gross materialism
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:27pm PT
You have to live in California to believe this.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 13, 2018 - 09:30pm PT
Besides, I feel safer when the people around me have guns. And The Bill of Rights says my feelings matter more than yours. Sorry.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2018 - 09:44pm PT
Lituya? Per your remark???

Besides, I feel safer when the people around me have guns.


I'm good with guns, per my various posts on the subject.



I am surprised that you asset that you trust other people with guns.

I don't, & if you are a true conservative, you would not trust other people with guns either.

Remember! The conservative slogan!

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get me!
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 13, 2018 - 10:01pm PT
Fritz, I don't long for a Hobbesian world. But I do feel safer here in Washington State where concealed carry means the bad guy has to ask himself whether he is, in fact, stalking sheep.
Re your love of the .357, I agree. In a world where only one handgun were allowed, I would keep my 4-inch S&W 586 above all. (My long gun would be my Winchester 94 .30-.30 lever.) Fortunately, I don't have to limit my choices in such a way.

BTW, you should keep your finger out of the trigger guard--and your hammer down. ;-)
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 13, 2018 - 11:53pm PT
And the "lax" gun laws in those states played a part in the officer's deaths how?

Murder rate is higher in Texas than NY or CA. Think about it Jody, more guns = more death. The common denominator across the country is availability. Before you start spewing about Chicago, the high murder rate occurs in the inner city where there are lots of guns because it is a short drive to Indiana where guns are easily obtained. Like it or not, gun regulation in CA has worked very well.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 04:32am PT
What bullsh#t...folks whining about freedom while enabling the authoritarian in the White House.

Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 14, 2018 - 08:13am PT


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2018 - 08:43am PT
Lituya! Re your comment on this photo:
BTW, you should keep your finger out of the trigger guard--and your hammer down. ;-)



It's damn-hard to make a revolver shoot if you don't have a finger on the trigger.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 09:24am PT
I'd like to see a version of that where they say it while working out on their Total Gyms. Now that might be funny. We are in the 5:00 shadow phase of impending socialism.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 14, 2018 - 09:34am PT
WTF is up with Chuck's haircut?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 14, 2018 - 09:43am PT
Says the video is not available.

Let me guess; your .45-70?



Fritz that was a great book.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 10:27am PT
Tip of the iceberg? https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/cases/caselabs-shuts-its-doors-enters-liquidation/1/

For years we heard the USA is shifting to a 'service economy' So then, how can you fight a manufacturing giant like China with tarrifs?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 14, 2018 - 10:46am PT

Donald Trump announced that if Caselabs did not stay in business then consumers should boycott them. just kidding, my derangement is flaring up.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 14, 2018 - 11:10am PT
He really doesn't hire the best people.

He really doesn't have the best words.

These truisms come not from "the fake news" but from himself...

everyday.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 14, 2018 - 11:12am PT
"BlacKKKlansman"

Saw it last Friday. Really good movie, very entertaining. And deadly serious.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 11:22am PT
I'm good with guns, per my various posts on the subject.

It's damn-hard to make a revolver shoot if you don't have a finger on the trigger.

It's not being aimed, it's right next to your open ear, and your finger is resting on a 3.5 pound single-action trigger. I assume it's not loaded, but still poor form. Sorry, Fritz, but it just is. FWIW, I'm a certified RSO at my local club.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 14, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
but still poor form. Sorry, Fritz, but it just is.

you gotta keep your finger pressed on the trigger at all times if you want to slay the boogie man that is lurking around every corner.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
Lituya! Per your mention:
It's not being aimed, it's right next to your open ear, and your finger is resting on a 3.5 pound single-action trigger. I assume it's not loaded, but still poor form. Sorry, Fritz, but it just is. FWIW, I'm a certified RSO at my local club.

I was simply trying for a fun selfie, based on this 1800's photo of patriotic Judge Winchell somewhere in the Sierras.


Since I suffer significant high-frequency hearing loss as a result of way too much shooting without ear protection from ages 6 to 40, I now don't shoot pistols without ear protection.

So-----I did not pull the trigger. I was having fun. I like to have fun. You should try fun, it's fun.




Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
The "somewhat conservative" publication Business Insider has this information & more on the ugly reality of Trump's tariffs.


President Donald Trump's tariffs are unlikely to help achieve one of the president's biggest trade goals, according to a new study by the New York Federal Reserve.

Trump has repeatedly cited the US's trade deficit as a reason for starting the trade war and has pushed for the reduction of the trade deficit in various negotiations.

But a new report from the New York Federal Reserve's Liberty Street Economics blog shows that Trump is unlikely to get the targeted reduction using his favorite trade tool: tariffs.

According to the New York Fed economists, while the new duties on goods coming into the US will lead to a decrease in the amount of imports — as Trump intends — the value of exports sent out of the US will also come down.

"In this post, we argue that US exports will also fall, not only because of other countries' retaliatory tariffs on US exports, but also because the costs for US firms producing goods for export will rise and make US exports less competitive on the world market," the New York Fed said. "The end result is likely to be lower imports and lower exports, with little or no improvement in the trade deficit."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-trade-war-unlikely-to-reduce-trade-deficit-export-import-fall-2018-8?yptr=yahoo




monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 14, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
^^Dumb statement from someone who can't recognize metaphors and sarcasm.^^
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 14, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
beat to the counterpunch by monolith...
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
LOL.

I thought this was about the economy.

So glad to learn that if my business crumbles in a year because of tariffs ,it will be my fault for not adjusting to the new pricing of a commodity. HS.


monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 14, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
Whatever you say, jody. I'd say your pre-demonstrated ignorance in fields such as evolution taints your mental capacity as well.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
tRump is good for tRump. Does not give a sh*t about anyone else. Once you understand this, you can plan accordingly.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 14, 2018 - 03:36pm PT
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
Deep State!!! Bengahzzzzi! Pizzagate!!!! No Moon Landing!!!! No Collusion!!!! Faaaake News!!!!

Everyone else is corrupt, but tRump is the Messiah!!!

Makes perfect sense...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 03:50pm PT
Good one, Edward!
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
Name the one that Uncle Puti actually helped win. No cheating with batsh*t crazy conspiracy theories though ;-)

Oh, and NDA’s for HW staff? Sure, that is normal.

Welcome to the Twighlight Zone!
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 14, 2018 - 04:08pm PT
Trump is the only president in my lifetime that is actually just an average scrum.

He has many faults, but he is one of us, We The People.


It's no surprise that there is non partisan scathing vitriol daily from both parties to try to discredit and undermine the president. It's because they are very much accustomed to holding the power and they do not want to let it go even if it means they have to ruin the economy in stirrup war with Russia.

Donald Trump breaks things. He is in American gangster and I love him even in some of the horrible things he does because hes actually just an average guy who happens have a lot of money who has succeeded at the ultimate game which is becoming leader of the free world.

He will be going after his legacy in history as a great president like a George Washington or and Abraham Lincoln. Not to say that that's what he is I'm saying that that's what he wants to be.



Your completely delusional fvcked-in-the-headedness is stunning.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 14, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
"One of us." "Just an average guy." What the hell planet are you from!?!? He's NEVER lived a day in his life like "one of us." EVER. Born with a roll of golden toilet paper up his ass. Has bought his way through his entire life. Stupidest statements so far.
monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 14, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
Luvin the false equivalence pics from the ankle biter.

As if pics of world leaders together is supposed to completely describe their relationship.

The funny part is it's not dems investigating Trump, it's the republican controlled justice department.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
I see that Manafort's defense rested without calling a single witness.

On the one hand, people think that the reason is that there was nobody willing to perjure theirself for Manafort, but others feel that either they're expecting "the pardon," or that there is some fix in with the jury.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
Dingus,That is a very good question.
I can answer it only by saying ,wood tariffs specifically,are affecting my business directly as to I work with middle class folks,they cannot afford the direct inflation that the tariffs create. The high end in my business,which is few and far between over here can absorb those hikes and could care less.
I am seeing it already,middle income folks putting thier wallets away and waiting to do that addition,kitchen,what may have you.

The high end cruises along.

There are not enough high end folks to support the wad of construction professionals and we are hoping the high end keeps its pace.

Otherwise,those working in the McMansion industry start competing with us lowly middle class contractors.
We are truly canaries in coal mine.
Why,because tariffs on softwood have choked out middle market opportunities.


40 years in the construction industry as a carpenter,what may look like a small steer in policy at the top always and I mean always is a direct steer into the ditch for most near me.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2018 - 05:14pm PT
ATG! Regarding your homage to our president:

Trump is the only president in my lifetime that is actually just an average scrum.

He has many faults, but he is one of us, We The People.

I enjoyed a working-class poor childhood in the resort towns of Ketchum/Sun Valley Idaho. After 15 years in the college town of Moscow Idaho, I moved back to Ketchum/Sun Valley for the 1980's, when the very-rich flooded the area.

The very-rich are very-different from average folks, but Trump is far more rude than any of the very-rich I knew or experienced.

You have been conned by a con.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
The Tariffs screw all contractors simply because we work for a non-captive and very skittish consumer.

Willbeer and I could both adjust our prices, tighten our belts, get lean and mean, etc., etc. It won't make a bit of difference if homeowners decide to put off a renovation until next year or wait for a more favorable economic climate before building that new home. If they need basic repairs they'll go directly to the subcontractor or a handyman to save money.



John M

climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
While certain commodity prises have risen due to tariffs, others have fallen dramatically and will benefit even the poorest of American consumers. The prices of beef, chicken and many grains have fallen and will get to the consumers. In my own business, I am already paying less for the raw ingredients used in the pizzas and pasta.

this is a classic example of what the conservatives claim that they hate. The government taking a major role in deciding who wins and who loses.

Life is sure funny these days.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 05:39pm PT
Yes Canadien.

Trouble is ,we Americans,do not have enough softwood ,really, we Need Canada’s lumber.

We do not have enough lumber to sustain the growth we want.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 05:47pm PT
That is ok ,tariffs on lumber , not so much.
I thought I may have articulated the differences.

It is not about me.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 05:56pm PT
Maybe ,regionally.
John M

climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
the pine bark beetle made a lot of the wood unusable. Plus there aren't very many mills left in California. So to process what glut there was, meant shipping it a long way. Not always cost effective.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
I believe so,adjustments will happen.

I am just hoping the bottom doesn’t fall out.

The worst thing about this is it can only be attributed to one person.
WBraun

climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
At the rate you gross materialists are going you'll all soon be living in mud huts and won't be able to use trees anymore ......
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
Werner,you do realize that trees are renewable and can meet demand with proper management.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
Werner is not making commentary on the sustainability of timber.

He moonlights here as a life coach to the gross materialist, the insane and the stoopid American by reinforcement of our self loathing.



wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 06:59pm PT
I have no problem with Werner,at all .....lol.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
DMT! You are sounding like a "short-term" fix conservative:

Not a short term fix but given the fire danger as well as the cost of managing forest lands it makes sense to relax logging standards and partner with commercial loggers to create sustainable and less flammable forests and to provide more American lumber to the market.

I sigh for those who spew the rancher & logger propaganda that grazing & logging prevents fire. That's not been proved true, but here's an opinion piece from High Country News, which notes that logging has also tanked in states like Maine, with little public land & few restrictions on logging.

Why is logging dying? Blame the market.

Environmental regulations and endangered species protections are not at fault for Western logging’s decline.

George Wuerthner
OPINION June 15, 2016

Critics of public lands like to say that timber jobs declined and mills closed over the last 20 years because environmental protections such as the Endangered Species Act and other laws made the cost of logging skyrocket. This complaint is repeated so often it is usually stated as unqualified truth.

If you believe the rhetoric, the way federal lands are managed has been the problem. If only there were more private owners of the land, local economies would prosper, and there would be stable, long-term stewardship.
If only that were true. But if you compare the mostly private wood-products industry in the state of Maine to the West’s experiences on public land, you find that environmental regulations had little to do with the demise of logging.

Ninety percent of Maine is forested, and more than 93 percent of the state’s land is privately owned, mostly by large timber companies that sell trees to the wood- products industry. If private lands lead to prosperity and healthy landscapes, Maine should be the poster child for the country. And unlike the West, Maine, imposes minimal regulations on private landowners. There are also almost no listed endangered species in Maine to harry the timber industry.

Yet today, the forest-products industry in Maine is a shadow of its former self. In 1980, there were 25 pulp and paper mills in the state. Today, two-thirds of those mills are gone. Since 1990, the state has lost 13,000 of its approximately 17,000 paper-industry jobs, including more than 2,300 in the past five years.

The decline continues. Associated wood products companies in Maine have also seen a decline – everything from wood furniture, wood flooring and clothespin producers have closed up shop.

The decline in both employment and production in Maine was caused by the same forces that drastically cut forest industry jobs in the West: foreign competition, which brought in cheaper wood products, technological advances and new automation that allowed computers instead of people to run machinery. High energy prices and labor costs also played a role as plastic and steel moved in to replace wood.

Think about the brightly colored plastic Adirondack chairs for sale at Home Depot now replacing the wooden chairs on which they are modeled. Instead of wood rafters, steel-beam has replaced two-by-fours in some construction, and so forth. The decline in newspapers and print materials has also dramatically altered demand for pulp production. All of these factors are affecting the West’s wood industry as much as they affect Maine.

These days, most of the new sawmills and pulp mills built in the United States are in the South. Trees grow faster there, and unlike the Western United States, the can reach harvestable age in a decade or two. To the timber industry, the longer you have to wait to cut trees, the higher the risk. Your trees might die in a forest fire, a beetle outbreak or some other natural event. So locating your mills in places where you can grow a tree to merchantable size quickly is a smart business practice.

Furthermore, most of the Southern timberlands are flat and accessible year-round. In the steep mountains of the West, road construction costs are far greater, and snow limits seasonal access.

So that’s the picture: The decline of the Western wood products industry – like that in Maine – occurred because of economic realities that favor other regions of the globe. Blaming environmentalists, endangered species protection, or environmental regulations is easy. But blame fails to explain a changing world, or help us understand its nuances.

Unlike Maine, the West has an alternative. Its abundant public lands – in particular its wilderness areas, national parks and monuments – provides the foundation for another future for the region. While not all the changes that come with the “new” economy are welcome – take sprawl and increased impacts from recreational users – they can be managed if we make intelligent choices.

https://www.hcn.org/articles/why-is-logging-dying-blame-the-market
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 14, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
It doesn't require much sophistication to see thru the pro logging BS propaganda...But go ahead and keep trying to blame the spotted owl...
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 14, 2018 - 07:23pm PT
Good discussion.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 14, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
I just wish all Americans would stop all the picking on him and see all the good things that President Trump has done.
John M

climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 07:29pm PT
Not a short term fix but given the fire danger as well as the cost of managing forest lands it makes sense to relax logging standards and partner with commercial loggers to create sustainable and less flammable forests and to provide more American lumber to the market.

This is especially true if they are protected from cheaper imports. Ramping that new (or rejuvenated) supply chain up take time of course and it will not provide cost reduction. In otherwords unless the tariffs are rescinded those higher prices on lumber are here to stay.

Timid pointed out that much of California is already systematically logged. The woodlands that aren't logged don't have enough marketable timber. Such as around Redding.

We are going to have to get more aggressive with our management tactics. Thinning, controlled burns, etc.. Thats going to require separating the forest services fire fighting budget, from its management budget.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2018 - 08:25pm PT
DMT! Per your kindly mention:
Notice I didn’t lob an implied insult in your direction, too.
And I thank you!

I suffered two wasp stings on Sunday & had a "severe local reaction," which is not life-threatening, but alarming, when my right leg & arm doubled in size, with some pain along the way. I also had to delay a planned mineral-collecting visit to "deepest" Idaho. Sooo--maybe I'm a little-more grouchy than usual.

I'm going to the "deepest" Idaho tomorrow, since the symptoms have mostly eased.

Here's an opinionated expert’s essay on why more logging won’t stop forest fires.

APRIL 19, 2016
The Myth That Logging Prevents Forest Fires
by GEORGE WUERTHNER

The Forest Service solution to large wildfires is more logging, but this prescription ignores the growing body of scientific research that suggests that logging/thinning/prescribed burning does not work under severe fire conditions.

Why is this important?

Because the vast majority of all fires self-extinguish whether we do anything or not. However, all large fires — the ones that are a threat to communities — burn under what are termed “severe fire weather.” These are fires burning under conditions of low humidity, high temperatures, persistent drought and, most importantly, high winds.

If you get these conditions in the same place as an ignition source, you cannot stop the fire until the weather conditions change. Blazes under such conditions regularly burn through fuel treatments — even clearcuts.

In fact, fuel treatments can even make fire spread quicker by opening the forest to greater drying and wind penetration.

Here’s a small sample of conclusions that cast doubt upon Forest Service policies.

“Finally by current standards, even our best fuel reduction do not appear to be adequate to provide much assistance in the control of high intensity wind-driven fires. If fuel treatment is the answer, it will need to be done on a level that is far more extensive (area) and intensive (fuel reduction) than we are now accomplishing — even on our best fuel breaks.” Source: Wildfire Cast Management

“fuel treatments … cannot realistically be expected to eliminate large area burned in severe fire weather years.” Source: Gedalof, Z., D.L. Peterson and N.J. Mantua (2005). Atmospheric, climatic and ecological controls on extreme wildfire years in the northwestern United States. Ecological Applications 15: 154-174.

“Extreme environmental conditions … overwhelmed most fuel treatment effects…. This included almost all treatment methods including prescribed burning and thinning…. Suppression efforts had little benefit from fuel modifications.”

“It may not be necessary or effective to treat fuels in adjacent areas in order to suppress fires before they reach homes; rather, it is the treatment of the fuels immediately proximate to the residences, and the degree to which the residential structures themselves can ignite that determine if the residences are vulnerable.”

“The majority of acreage burned by wildfire in the US occurs in a very few wildfires under extreme conditions (Strauss et al., 1989; Brookings Institution, 2005). Under these extreme conditions suppression efforts are largely ineffective.”

Source: Objectives and considerations for wildland fuel treatment in forested ecosystems of the interior western United States Elizabeth D. Reinhardt *, Robert E. Keane, David E. Calkin, Jack D. Cohen.


We cannot halt large fires through fuel treatments. The best way to save homes is not by logging more of the forest, but by implementing fire-wise policies in communities that reduces the flammability of homes.

I suspect many in the Forest Service, and especially firefighters, know this, but the agency is continuously under attack from politicians, rural communities, and the timber industry to increase the amount of subsidized timber from federal lands. Fire prevention is the excuse used to justify these sales.

Plus, logging/thinning gives the agency reasonable deniability. When a fire overwhelms firefighting efforts, the Forest Service can always say we did what we could to protect the community.

It is easier to log the forest than face the wrath and accusations from ill-informed community members that if only the FS had logged more, than the “disaster” could have been avoided.

The truth is that the responsibility for avoiding disasters lies not with the Forest Service, but with individual private landowners, and county commissioners who continuously approve new subdivisions in the Wildlands Urban interface.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/19/the-myth-that-logging-prevents-forest-fires/
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 14, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
Fritz...that must have hurt..?...This guy i work with , big steve , 6 foot 9 , 300 lbs. , was taking a piss and got stung on the balls by a meat bee...He swelled up and left work to try and impress his wife with the swelling...He's a trump supporter so i think it served him right...?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
RJ! I have had too-many mis-adventures with stinging insects.

This short-story, along with 2 other fritz-sting stories, was published in Idaho Magazine.

Here's the link to the article, which you have to pay for, but this is the sickest story. http://www.idahomagazine.com/article/three-stinging-encounters/


Summer of 1986 my Salt Lake City friend Wally came up to Idaho to go fishing and adventuring with me. We drove into the middle of deepest Idaho and reached the small stream that was my secret fishing objective by early evening. Yes! It was the legendary E. Fork of No Tellum Creek. After an hour or so of fishing, it was getting late and it was time to go find a camp spot. The sun had set a while earlier & mountain temperatures were rapidly dropping.

As we were loading our fishing gear into my truck, I noticed a pile of logging slash near the road. I explained to Wally that we should gather some of that wood for a campfire, since it was unlikely that our roadside camp, farther down-canyon, would have any firewood. Since it was almost dark and a little cold, I put on Levis, a heavy canvas shirt, and work gloves, before gathering firewood.

I then climbed onto the pile of slash and started pulling out pieces and tossing them to Wally.

Shortly thereafter, something small flew near my face.

I experienced a sudden chill up my back and a premonition of evil. I then looked down to see what might be happening.

I was black from the belly down with incensed, but cold, hornets that were crawling up me with malice & hate in their demonical little minds, since I had disturbed their nest in the slash pile.

“HORNETS!!” I screamed, as I leaped off the slash pile and started running towards the road (and Wally) while peeling off my shirt and flailing at my torso & pants. About that time the first hornets started stinging me through the shirt and on my head. I blew by the slightly stunned & immobile Wally and started running up the road at just below light speed. (The truck was not an option, since I was still covered with hornets.)

Meanwhile Wally, who didn’t comprehend my startled scream of HORNETS, was standing there in the dark, trying to figure out what was going on. He later told me that the only thing he could think was: at long last, Fritz had finally gone insane.

About that time the first hornet stung him.

Wally rapidly caught up with me and we both ran about 100 yards up the road in the dark, slapping and getting stung, cursing and screaming: until we felt safe again.

The sting toll was surprisingly low. I had been stung about a dozen times on my head and back. Wally had about half that many stings. It had been too cold for the hornets to be a killing threat to us.

I do have a mild allergy to bee-stings. I worried the abundance of stings might set off an allergic reaction that could be deadly to me, but the closest medical clinic was over 2 hours away on mostly gravel roads. Instead of panicking, I ate a couple Benadryl tablets to hopefully quell any allergic reaction.

We drove to camp, cooked some steaks, drank a lot of red wine, and felt much better. And, I didn’t wake up choking for breath, or dead.

It wasn’t funny at the time.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 14, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
The automation of logging has not helped the logger. When corporations sold expensive equipment that allowed more lumber to be cut and moved loggers loved it. All they had to do was cut more trees to pay for the equipment. Does not take a Nobel laureate to see the problem with that strategy. Farming is another example of scaled up operations. however studies have shown that the Amish way is far more efficient at the end of the day.
John M

climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
Wawona has had a lot of fuel reduction done around it in the form of thinning and controlled burns. In the last 2 years there have been two fires that have directly threatened Wawona. The Ferguson fire just now, and one last year. During the Ferguson fire there were a few days with extreme conditions. Fires were spotting up to a mile away. The area the fire spotted into had burned recently, (controlled fire in one area, natural fire in another. The Fire crews were able to control those spot fires. So there are uses for thinning and for controlled burns. There are also times when little will stop a fire.

I believe we still need to do thinning, because it does help in some situations. We also need to do controlled burns, because those also help in many situations. One area of the Ferguson fire went out on its own because it met an area that had burned 2 years ago.
John M

climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 11:00pm PT
Republicans did the same thing when Obama was elected. You should have been in Oakhurst the day after that election. I went to town and while in line at Raley's grocery store, I overheard 4 people saying that there was going to be a civil war. They were laughing because liberals wouldn't be able to protect themselves because none of them had guns. I walked up to them and told them that I voted for Obama. Then I asked them which one of them was planning on shooting me as I just wanted to know who was planning on killing me.

After that I went out for a burger. While I was eating, a man in the booth behind me was on the phone cancelling his bible study because he was too upset to lead a study. ( shouldn't a time of stress be just the time one would turn to God and want their leader to help them? huh..) He kept saying that this was a disaster and that the end was near. Then he too said that there would be a civil war. This was a supposed man of god.

I can give more examples.

People here on the taco said that they were preparing for a civil war. One person predicted it within one year of Obama's election.

Republicans went bonkers. They yelled for years that Obama was a muslim, that he was not born in America, they even said that he didn't actually graduate from college. They hung him effigy, they put bumper stickers on their autos saying that Obama is a turd. The list goes on and on.

Both sides have their issues with insanity. That doesn't mean that everyone is insane. It just means that some topics send them over the edge.

gun control.. BOO! oh my god, the liberals are going to take ALL of my guns. How many times have I heard that?

I'm reasonably certain that you will have an excuse for all of this.. so this was probably a waste of time, but someone has to speak up. When are you going to acknowledge that both sides have their insanities and both sides can be ugly?

Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 14, 2018 - 11:11pm PT
^ ^ ^ ^

+ ∞
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Aug 15, 2018 - 05:42am PT
Excellent post John M.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2018 - 06:21am PT
More of what Trumpists call Winning!

CBS/AP August 10, 2018, 4:25 PM
U.S. budget deficit this year already 21% higher than last year

The federal government racked up a $76.9 billion deficit in July, with increased government spending and tax cuts keeping the country on track to record its biggest annual deficit in six years.

The Treasury Department reported Friday that in the first 10 months of this budget year:

• The deficit totaled $684 billion, up 20.8 percent from the same period last year.

• Revenues are up only 1 percent this year, the increase held back by a big drop in corporate tax payments.

Spending is up 4.4 percent, reflecting a big boost Congress approved earlier this year for domestic and military programs and the rising costs of financing the debt.

The Trump administration last month sharply revised upward its deficit estimates, projecting annual deficits will once again top $1 trillion in the 2019 budget year, climbing to $1.1 trillion, and remaining above $1 trillion for three years.

For the current budget year, which ends Sept. 30, the administration is now projecting a deficit of $890 billion. That would be up 33.7 percent from last year's deficit of $665.8 billion.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-budget-deficit-this-year-already-21-higher-than-last-year/
WBraun

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:25am PT
That would be up 33.7 percent from last year's deficit of $665.8 billion.

It's because they have been throwing all your money away supporting ISIS in Syria and Afghanistan all this time ......
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:30am PT
When Obama became President the debt was $10.626 trillion. When he left office the debt was $19.947 trillion.

$9.321 TRILLION in new debt.
WBraun

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:32am PT
The st00pid illegal criminal American war machine and regime change machine since 911 is the biggest cause of the deficit all these years ......
John M

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 08:18am PT
When Obama became President the debt was $10.626 trillion. When he left office the debt was $19.947 trillion.

$9.321 TRILLION in new debt.

No doubt a big increase, but you have to factor in that this is what happens when one inherits a crumbling economy, one that is on the brink of a great depression.

Why can't you acknowledge that? Its been shown many times that one has to spend ones way out of a depression/recession. Its what happens after you stabilize the economy that counts. Once you get things moving in a decent direction for a period of time, then you need to start paying down the debt.

Trump inherited an economy that was growing. We will see what he does with it. I believe that we stand a good chance of crashing and burning again if we don't get that debt in control. Its like an anchor around the neck of our economy.

Deficits don't matter. - Dick Cheney


George Bush doubled the national debt too.. he helped create first a sizzling economy, then at the end, a major bust. He used that growing economy to double the debt.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 08:27am PT

Not a short term fix but given the fire danger as well as the cost of managing forest lands it makes sense to relax logging standards and partner with commercial loggers to create sustainable and less flammable forests and to provide more American lumber to the market.

I understand there are not enough mills to process the lumber in this scenario. I can't imagine it would be cost-effective to build new ones, but maybe that is what will happen. Rob Peter(American taxpayers) to pay Paul("friends" of the administration, who suddenly decide to get into lumber-mill business).
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 15, 2018 - 08:39am PT
The Republicans took over the House in 2010

Our Constitution mandates that all Federal Spending must start and be approved by the House

The Republicans took control of the Senate in 2014.

Both the Republican House and Senate created and voted to approve all SPENDING.

The US President simply signs what congress approves into law.

Exactly what part of this is not understood - Republicans are as responsible now as they were then for the Deficit and increases in National Debt.

In fact the Republican House, Senate, and Presidency just increased the Debt by 1.5 TRILLION dollars with the tax cuts.

Therefore, IF "spending" determines who you vote for, you do not vote Republican.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 15, 2018 - 08:40am PT
Given the level of corruption of this administration I would not doubt that most of the logging would get done in areas where it is most profitable, the fire suppression issue be damned. I thought thinning the low growth was the objective, I do not see how there is profit in that.
John M

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:44am PT
^^^ bias, willful blindness, ignorance, hatred.. alive and well.

Edit: you ignored my earlier post Jody.. I will post it here so its easy for you to find.

Republicans did the same thing when Obama was elected. You should have been in Oakhurst the day after that election. I went to town and while in line at Raley's grocery store, I overheard 4 people saying that there was going to be a civil war. They were laughing because liberals wouldn't be able to protect themselves because none of them had guns. I walked up to them and told them that I voted for Obama. Then I asked them which one of them was planning on shooting me as I just wanted to know who was planning on killing me.

After that I went out for a burger. While I was eating, a man in the booth behind me was on the phone cancelling his bible study because he was too upset to lead a study. ( shouldn't a time of stress be just the time one would turn to God and want their leader to help them? huh..) He kept saying that this was a disaster and that the end was near. Then he too said that there would be a civil war. This was a supposed man of god.

I can give more examples.

People here on the taco said that they were preparing for a civil war. One person predicted it within one year of Obama's election.

Republicans went bonkers. They yelled for years that Obama was a muslim, that he was not born in America, they even said that he didn't actually graduate from college. They hung him effigy, they put bumper stickers on their autos saying that Obama is a turd. The list goes on and on.

Both sides have their issues with insanity. That doesn't mean that everyone is insane. It just means that some topics send them over the edge.

gun control.. BOO! oh my god, the liberals are going to take ALL of my guns. How many times have I heard that?

I'm reasonably certain that you will have an excuse for all of this.. so this was probably a waste of time, but someone has to speak up. When are you going to acknowledge that both sides have their insanities and both sides can be ugly?


republicans prepared to kill other Americans because Obama was elected but that doesn't rise to a level you would consider to be insane.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:45am PT
The US President simply signs what congress approves into law.

Or vetoes it. The president submits a budget to congress. Unless they have a veto proof majority, the ruling party in congress has to more or less go along. That's how Reagan was able to bust the deficit wide open despite a Democrat majority in congress.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:47am PT
TDS alive and well

Yes, Trump Denial Syndrome..
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:48am PT
gun control.. BOO! oh my god, the liberals are going to take ALL of my guns. How many times have I heard that?

Why would liberals want to take any of them from law-abiding citizens?

Why does one party(R) seem far more comfortable with an armed citizenry than the other(D)? Curious indeed.
John M

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:50am PT
stop trying to twist my words Lituya.

thats what conservative believe. That liberals want to take away "all" the guns. never mind that many of them own guns. Its what the NRA promotes day after day, and conservatives fall for it.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:52am PT
Those are your words, John.
John M

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:53am PT
oh good grief. Its what conservatives say anytime gun control comes up. are you that obtuse? or just being an ass?
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:59am PT
Why does one party(R) seem far more comfortable with an armed citizenry than the other(D)? Curious indeed.

Because members of one party (very often) fundamentally believe that violence is the way to physically force people to behave in a society, while the other party (very often) fundamentally believe in education and creating opportunities for a meaningful life as the path to encourage people to behave in a society.


Violence is a part of the tool-box for extreme corner cases, but the violence-centric way of doing things turns the corner cases into the mainstream and destroys the experience of civilization for more people.

That is my personal belief, rooted in my fundamental world view and my policy preferences, not rooted in the labels of democrat or republican.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:15am PT
John, I think you need to read up on rhetoric. My question, in response to your sarcasm, was this: why do liberals want to take any of our guns? It's really not that hard.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:16am PT
Because members of one party (very often) fundamentally believe that violence is the way to physically force people to behave in a society, while the other party (very often) fundamentally believe in education and creating opportunities for a meaningful life as the path to encourage people to behave in a society.

NutAgain, you're smarter than this, right?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:25am PT
Because members of one party (very often) fundamentally believe that violence is the way to physically force people to behave in a society

Antifa?

I know hundreds of liberals. I only know 2 who want to take away all guns, and limit them like great Britain does. Strictly for hunting. 2 out of hundreds. I'm talking about people that I have met.

Maybe you should apply similar critical thinking (or simple powers of observation) to understanding conservatives.
John M

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:40am PT
I have no problems understanding conservatives. My family is very conservative. My father voted for Trump. I was raised in a Southern Baptist family. It hardly get more conservative then that. I grew up in small conservative ag towns. Yes.. they exist in California. If you don't know this, then you don't know California. I will say again. I have no problem understanding conservatives. I have worked for many. I have good relations with them. But I have watched the conservative party change as things like fox news and hannity and limbaugh have come to the front. There was a time when conservatives would have never considered someone like trump being fit to be president. They crucified Clinton for having affairs, and then turned around and voted for Trump.

I am mostly conservative. I want a balanced budget. I want to pay off the debt. I want a strong military, but not crazy strong. I want good schools. I want reasonable people to decide reasonable things. I want good strong infrastructure.

The problem that I am having is that I am finding few reasonable people anymore. Conservatives have gone bat sh#t crazy over some things and so have liberals. Few can get past trigger issues anymore and work together. That can't happen as long as people in each party control the conversation by using "all or nothing" arguments.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:46am PT
Conservatives have gone bat sh#t crazy over some things and so have liberals

Thank you.
John M

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:51am PT
I did not say that they are the same. I did not even imply that. They certainly are not. The only way that they are the same is that they each have some issues that are trigger issues. And they each have topics where a portion of the party is insane and is controlling the dialogue. Those topics are different.. But they do exist. For both parties. Both parties also have a middle ground which is currently being drowned out.

I tend to vote Democrat because currently I believe that they at least try to reach across the aisle, contrary to what conservatives say about them.
John M

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 11:03am PT
I trust Reilly's opinion a whole lot more then I trust yours. You are too prone to the all or nothing argument. You don't appear to be able to see shades of understanding.



Edit: for instance. there is more then one black person on this forum. But your disdain for people blinds you to that and causes people to not want to help you.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 11:27am PT
After 5 weeks in Norge och Sverige all it took was 15 minutes at LAX to disabuse my more optimistic self that there is no hope for this country - the obesity and rudeness, sort of the tip of the iceberg of the greater malaise, was stunningly oppressive. Pretty sure Dems and Repubs were equally represented.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Aug 15, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
I did not say that they are the same. I did not even imply that. They certainly are not. The only way that they are the same is that they each have some issues that are trigger issues. And they each have topics where a portion of the party is insane and is controlling the dialogue. Those topics are different.. But they do exist. For both parties. Both parties also have a middle ground which is currently being drowned out.

I reject the false dichotomy that both sides are equally bad. Sure, both sides have a shrill extreme. But if you look at who is actually winning primaries, the R's are putting up a far greater number of extreme candidates than Dems.

It isn't hard to find liars on both sides. But if you look at politicians that actually hold elected office, for instance in the Senate, you find far more Republican Senators that deny easily checkable facts than Democratic Senators.

Elected Republicans are generally incapable of contradicting that fantasies, conspiracies, and hate mongering coming from Fox News and Trump.

You don't get that level of lock step denial among elected Democrats.

Republicans are suffering from "the emperor has no clothes syndrome" or as Doonsebury once pointed out, "look ma, the clothes have no emperor".

originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Aug 15, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
Yeah, big fan of Reilly and his point of view. I wish more republicans were like him.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 15, 2018 - 12:46pm PT
The Quinnipiac poll numbers highlight how poorly Americans think of him


Only 31 percent of American voters like President Donald Trump as a person, while 59 percent dislike him, according to a Quinnipiac University National Poll released [Tuesday]. … By a smaller 54 – 43 percent margin, American voters dislike President Trump’s policies.


Voters disapprove 54 – 41 percent of the job Trump is doing as president, including 48 percent who disapprove strongly. Another 30 percent approve strongly. The Trump Administration is not doing enough to help middle class Americans, voters say 58 – 38 percent.

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 12:53pm PT
I remember the far left of the early 70's and tailing off into the 80's. With the excesses of Nixon, Vietnam, DDT, institutionalized racism, the discrimination of women and so on, the far right slunk into a dark corner for a period and the far left surged in mass influence. Of course the left went too far (see Jane Fonda) and payed the price. They've currently all but vanished as a generational movement.


Sit-ins, tree spiking and well organized, radical, underground organizations of those days have been replaced by environmental scientists, environmental laywers, Social Democrats and civil liberty groups. They now work for more progressive policies and laws through the current framework of our political and legal system. This is your "far left" and hardly amount to the extreme left that many describe here as "drowning out" and wanting to destroy America.

There currently exists a progressive left, an establishment center left, centrists, center right, Neocons, Corporate Globalist, Economic Libertarians, Social Libertarians, the extreme right, states rights militiaman and of course the Fascists.

Of course given the excesses of Trump, the Koch Brothers, Citizens United, the Religious Right and so on, I'm looking forward to free healthcare the next time around.
monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 15, 2018 - 01:23pm PT
^^Trump Denial Syndrome^^
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 15, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
Trump and Jody
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 15, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
yep Jody suffers from acute TDS for sure.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 15, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory

Aug 15, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
TDS is infecting everyone. It's an epidemic!

Today's posts support your claim. Lots of hysterical ranting.

Rage, rage against the dying of common sense.
monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 15, 2018 - 01:53pm PT
Reality check coming in a few months.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 15, 2018 - 02:10pm PT

so, where did Birther Boy AGV go?
John M

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
so, where did Birther Boy AGV go?

Some, maybe most of us are tired of this kind of sh#t. I don't like it from Jody. I don't like it from you.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 15, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
True about the oxygen, in line with that Trump needed to distract from the bad publicity so he pulled John Brennan's security clearance. Of course Mike Flynn the traitor, still has his clearance.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 15, 2018 - 02:24pm PT
Bozos like Eddie or Jody calling people deranged who are justifiably concerned about Trump’s behavior is another ridiculous example of the upside-down, black-is-white Trump Cultists own derangement.

Trump cites John Brennan’s “erratic behavior” when revoking his security clearance today just like the banana-republic authoritarian dictators Trump so admires, and the Trump-holes will just lap it up and criticize, as suffering acute TDS, anyone who points out that this petty, vengeful act could harm national security.

Trump-holes who resented being accused of ODS, might think TDS is a biting insult based on reality; but what they may never be capable of realizing is that the same inability to see reality that caused them to suffer from Obama and Hillary derangement leads them to now project such a disorder upon those of us who can see quite clearly that the emperor is butt fvcking naked.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
Well said John M.

Let’s keep it civil,we have huge differences. That is not a free pass to call someone names.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 15, 2018 - 03:00pm PT
So, Ivanka and Jarred both use a private email server for their gov't business.

I can barely hear over the outrage from the right.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 15, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
I really liked John M.’s post last night because it did such a good job of illustrating how bad Obama Derangement Syndrome was and still is.

I don’t think there is any such thing as TDS except perhaps for members of Q anon and the guy in this article: https://www.salon.com/2018/07/31/exclusive-trump-endorsed-radio-show-has-promoted-ex-cia-agents-call-for-right-wing-rebellion/
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 04:31pm PT
Do you have an opinion of what goes on in NY.
You know ,other than what you read,which is totally out of context,but,believe what you want.

Please,enlighten me.

dirtbag

climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 04:41pm PT
Jody thinks he has a brilliant point.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 15, 2018 - 05:04pm PT
Donut Boi is back....!!!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 05:58pm PT
Fox News is focusing on the economy, pretending that Trump's big tax cut for the wealthy and his import tariffs are "Making America Great Again".

The truth is that workers' wages have been stagnant since 1974, while expenses, especially housing, have risen dramatically. 20% of Californians live in poverty, and a similarly low percentage of people can afford to buy homes. Most Americans will see no significant reduction in their taxes. Many Americans are adversely, and severely, affected by Trump's trade wars.



Trump's Russian Revolution is upon us.

Trump is systematically eliminating investigators and intelligence officials who have determined that Russia has been interfering in U.S. elections, most significantly to put Trump in the White House. Trump is systematically attempting to obstruct justice, and halt the Mueller investigation from discovering and disclosing Trump's conspiracy with Russia.

Just today, Trump stripped an ex-CIA chief of his security clearance because he has, repeatedly, stated that Russia is interfering in American politics. Trump's spokesliar, Sarah Sanders, says that FBI, CIA, NSA and other investigators' security clearances are "under review". Sanders further stated that numerous investigations showing Russian interference in America's affairs are not credible.


This is happening, right now.


Trump is attempting to strip the United States of its ability to fight off the current Russian attack. Trump is aiding and abetting a foreign enemy that is attacking the United States.


Trump issued a statement, after signing a Defense Budget bill this week, that he believes that he is not beholden to Congress. He said that he doesn't have to enforce certain aspects of that bill (i.e., he claims to have the power of line-item veto). Trump stated that he, alone, has absolute authority in dealing with foreign affairs. Trump is attempting to inflate his role, as the executor of the laws, to that of an absolute despot at the top of an imaginary system wherein he, alone, decides what the law is, and how he will apply it.

Trump's focus in the statement was that he is not going to abide by Congress' mandate that the current Russian attack be addressed and stopped.


Just for the record, Trump does not have absolute authority over foreign affairs. For example, he would have to go to Congress to ask for a declaration of war, and if it was granted, then he could declare war. The president executes the laws; he does not decide what the laws are. Trump's tariff policy is an abuse of power predicated on a fictitious national security risk, and is a perversion of an existing law that Trump falsely claims grants him absolute power over the economy.


Trump is an insane megalomaniac who probably figures that he has nothing to lose because he is just a senile old man trying to get whatever he can at the end of his life (c.f. Rudy Giuliani).
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
https://www.google.com/amp/s/pjmedia.com/video/gov-andrew-cuomo-shocks-audience-america-was-never-that-great/amp/You wrote America as if you were a majority and yes,it was out of context because you did not include all that he was saying.



Like it or not , I am not his biggest fan , but,he was correct.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:03pm PT
Trump grabbed woman by the pussies and separated children from their parents. But go ahead and focus on the foolish libs and dems if it makes you feel less guilty.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
I guess I have to ask, Do you know what context means?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
Which country is that ?

Bye the way .
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
.just defending what he is doing for the country which is more than the last 4 presidents combined.


Your statement indicates that you are defending Trump's fealty to Russia, which has not occurred at any time in United States history, let alone during the terms of the last four presidents.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
Remember when Trump was campaigning and he was such a devout Christian. Big photo ops in churches every Sunday, favorite book was the bible. It was sickening because I knew it was all an act

how often does he go to church now? What church does he go to in NJ? He still does the oval office photo ops with holy men, shamans or whatever it is they are called, and you people east it up. You right wingers cared a lot more about Obama's religious affiliation, it was so important, what happened?
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Aug 15, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
trump didn't know what an evangelical was until someone told him that they would vote for him...
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
Tom, thanks for taking the time to put that all down. It's pretty exhausting when you actually start to list the sh!t these nuts throw at American conventionality from every direction.

My father in law was a Naval carrier pilot, step dad a Navy SEAL, brother an Army Cobra pilot- most of these educated military people that have served and are no longer operational think Trump is psycho.

You can't put your head in the sand- Encourage someone young to go out and vote! Chances are they will have a better understanding of what's going on than a few people here who happen to think Russians are better than Democrats.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
Likewise contractor,my father had two Purple Hearts in the Asian theater WW 2 as a Marine recon and went to school as an engineer for Bell aerospace ,propelling the Apollo missions ,fighting the Cold War.


He is turning in his grave in Henrietta,New York.

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
Can you believe it Wibeer...the fuk!ng Russians of all countries!? We should be using American might and that of the EU to drive them into the dirt. Instead, Putin has a puppet running our country with the likes of Jody cheering him all the way to the Kremlin.

Your Dad's a bad ass! Loved the HBO series the Pacific. I get teary-eyed everytime I drive past Basilone Road near Trestles.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 07:38pm PT
I cannot. Maybe start some McCarthyism,wtf.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 07:39pm PT
Thanks ,man, I get all of it from him.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 07:56pm PT
There are WWII/Korea Purple Heart Vets who think trump is great.

I know them

Be careful b4 you start counting

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 15, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
You are right,my dad was way democrat. I was born in Pittsburgh,my dad moved us up here to the Rochester area because he found good work at Bell aerospace in Niagara Falls.
The reason he moved to Rochester was because of a few marines he knew.
Bob Warfield ,Art Lee ,lived in my neighborhood both were black,they fought with dad,I grew up with their sons .

George Burke and Tom Paine were just down the road.

These soldiers were tight ,I grew up with them.

I was at a Memorial Day parade where my dad was marching with his marine friends when someone called Art Lee a Nword ,my dad and George Burke would be in jail now for what I had witnessed.

Back to where America has always been great.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Aug 15, 2018 - 08:24pm PT
WPWJB? (Which pornstars would Jesus bang?)
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 08:56pm PT
There is an apt analogy for a Congressional bloc of Republicans who will not stand up to Trump, and who will allow him to wildly and insanely pervert the office of the President:


Men who sell their daughters as sex slaves for a pocket full of gold.


#NotAmerican

#ThisIsHappeningNow







VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

I have writer's OCD. I continually edit for form and style. But, not for content.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:05pm PT
Men who would sell their daughters as sex slaves because they enjoy the extra spending power that an immediate and fat handful of cash personally provides to them.
Furthermore; pledge to thwart by conspiracy, any effort by law enforcement to bring the pedophiles to justice.

Fixed it.

monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:15pm PT
TDS = Trump Denial Syndrome.

Jody's reality check will come in a few months.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 15, 2018 - 09:57pm PT
TDS has gone viral and Jody is patient zero

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:07pm PT
these aren't speeding tickets, folks

Trump's turpitude extends widely, and even minor offenses are declared to be acceptable, because he is Trump.


Trump's first campaign manager, Corey Lowandowski, says that Trump is a "regular guy" because he got pulled over by the police while illegally talking on his cell phone while driving his Rolls-Royce from New York City to his New Jersey country club.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/15/us/politics/trump-regular-people-corey-lewandowski.html


Lowandowski additionally claims Trump is a "regular guy" because Trump knows that he has to pay money at a McDonald's to get a cheeseburger. Lowendowski's anecdote is that Trump paid, and received change, the same as any other regular guy.




Lowandowski is one of many ex-Trump staffers who are now being paid six figures from election campaign contributions, as from the RNC, Trump's re-election campaign, or assortedly sordid pro-Trump groups.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/everyone-signed-one-trump-is-aggressive-in-his-use-of-nondisclosure-agreements-even-in-government/2018/08/13/9d0315ba-9f15-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html




Omarosa was offered $15,000 per month to stay home and shut up.


https://www.businessinsider.com/omarosa-trump-campaign-lara-hush-money-payment-2018-8



Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:24pm PT
Jody-See, the difference between you and me is my happiness does not depend on the government, yours apparently does.
Says the guy who lives on a Government pension.

Do you pay taxes on your part time job? Just curious.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:24pm PT
TDS spreading like a CA wildfire.

But Jody, I thought you were hinting that the size of the fires was fake news???

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2433998&tn=1540







LOL! You guys are so amusing. See, the difference between you and me is my happiness does not depend on the government, yours apparently does.

Yeah right, I remember your posts during the Obama years—almost like you didn’t know or care who was president, right?
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:30pm PT
I remember the far left of the early 70's and tailing off into the 80's. With the excesses of Nixon, Vietnam, DDT, institutionalized racism, the discrimination of women and so on, the far right slunk into a dark corner for a period and the far left surged in mass influence. Of course the left went too far (see Jane Fonda) and payed the price. They've currently all but vanished as a generational movement.


Sit-ins, tree spiking and well organized, radical, underground organizations of those days have been replaced by environmental scientists, environmental laywers, Social Democrats and civil liberty groups. They now work for more progressive policies and laws through the current framework of our political and legal system. This is your "far left" and hardly amount to the extreme left that many describe here as "drowning out" and wanting to destroy America.

There currently exists a progressive left, an establishment center left, centrists, center right, Neocons, Corporate Globalist, Economic Libertarians, Social Libertarians, the extreme right, states rights militiaman and of course the Fascists.

Of course given the excesses of Trump, the Koch Brothers, Citizens United, the Religious Right and so on, I'm looking forward to free healthcare the next time around.
Contractor, I've rarely read a post where every single point was wrong. (Then again, you're the same guy who posted a photo of his own admittedly underpaid workers.)

In order:

1980--Ronald Reagan, anyone?

Vietnam? LBJ (and Mcnamara) were not conservatives. Certainly not Republicans.

Vanished? They basically took over the university system. The soft side, anyhow. Public--and much of the private too.

IMO, they've abandoned the legislative process in favor of bureaucratic interpretation and regulation. Even executive overreach. (When their guy is in charge.) True, the left's favored judicial activism has taken a hit since Blackmun and Douglas passed. But the 9th Circuit is keeping the Directory tradition alive!

Your political scale is horribly weighted with your personal bias. You left out Anarchists, American Communists and other extreme left. Some of them even post here!

States rights? Thomas Jefferson, anyone?



Still, the question of who, right or left, has moved farther from the center is a good one. Unfortunately, it's much like asking what time it is right now on Proxima Centauri b.





Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 15, 2018 - 11:28pm PT
An avalanche of indictments is forecast for the near future . . . . . . . . . .




. . . . . . . . . . . . . a sudden serac collapse could be strategically advantageous for investigators.






Spraying one ant is effective, and gets rid of one ant.

Disturbing the nest and spraying all of them is the method of Sun Tzu.






I can "touch and feel" (It's what I do) that Mueller will hit hard and fast, with a great crescendo of indictments, all at the same time.

Mueller's earlier indictments against foreigners were warnings that were not heeded by the domestically doomed. Nobody came forth, asking for forgiveness. Now, they're gonna get what's coming to them.




I can imagine forty indictments. But, that is just my opinion.

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Aug 16, 2018 - 04:40am PT
Lituya, Do you really have a masters in history? Your comments affirm every point I make which tells me you suffer from poor comprehension.

I think anyone who read my post would understand that I make the point that excesses of the 60’s and 70’s by the extreme left in reaction to things like Vietnam and DDT lead directly to the Reagan Revolution and our current cycle.

Don't take my word for it, do what other historians like yourself do- read the dozens and dozens of books and articles that confirm my conclusions.

Here I used the Google machine to find a couple for you.

The New Yorker
Turned Around
Why do leftists move to the right?
By George Packer
February 14, 2016 11:00 PM


The biggest story of the past fifty years in American politics has been the ascendancy of the right, and it’s a story of apostasy. At each stage of the conservative movement’s long march to power, crucial aid was provided by heretics from the left. Progressives recoiled from the New Deal and turned reactionary; ex-Communists helped to launch National Review, in the nineteen-fifties; recovering socialists founded neoconservatism in the sixties and seventies; New Left radicals turned on their former comrades and former selves in the Reagan years. Ronald Reagan, whose Presidency brought the movement to its high-water mark, was himself once a New Deal liberal. In the course of a lifetime, the prevailing political winds are westerly—they blow from left to right.


NATIONAL
FACT CHECK: Is Left-Wing Violence Rising?
June 16, 20176:21 PM ET

MARTIN KASTE
KIRK SIEGLER



Still, their numbers are tiny in relation to the mainstream political left. And, say experts, it's misleading for right-wing groups to suggest that the Antifa are more violent than right-wing extremists.

"The far left is very active in the United States, but it hasn't been particularly violent for some time," says Mark Pitcavage, a senior research fellow at the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism.

He says the numbers between the groups don't compare.

"In the past 10 years when you look at murders committed by domestic extremists in the United States of all types, right-wing extremists are responsible for about 74 percent of those murders," Pitcavage says.

You have to go back to the 1970s to find the last big cycle of far-left extremism in the U.S. Both Pitcavage and McNabb say we have been in a predominantly far-right extremist cycle since the 1990s — the abortion clinic bombings and Oklahoma City, for example. And, more recently, racially motivated attacks such as the one at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, the mass shooting at a black church in Charleston, S.C., and last month's stabbings on a commuter train in Portland.

The return of leftist terrorism?
By Peter Bergen and David Sterman, CNN
Updated 12:28 AM EDT, Thu June 15, 2017

Since the 1970s, left wing terrorism has largely declined, with the exception of some more extreme animal rights groups and eco-terrorists. But these groups have largely targeted property rather than aiming to conduct lethal attacks.

In addition, there have been occasional instances of politically motivated violence from the left, including a 2013 shooting at the conservative Family Research Council motivated in part by its opposition to same-sex marriage. Fortunately no one was killed.

The necessary comparison of incidents of far-left and far-right terrorism raises important questions about political polarization and radical violence. Since 9/11, according to data collected by New America, far-right terrorists have conducted a much higher number of lethal attacks in the United States than leftist terrorists, killing a total of 53 people

Lituya, for your own good, don't pass yourself off as an academic anymore- it's embarrassing. Just tell people your a retired Highway Patrolman, you'll get a little more slack.


Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:24am PT
Jody, Jody, Jody. Many of the newspapers that joined the unified voice are papers that have been blowing Trump all along. One of the symptoms of TDS is loss of objectivity
dirtbag

climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:28am PT
The free press is never the enemy of the people.

Trump sounds like a dictator when he says such things.

You defend him anyway.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:31am PT
Bangin' it like Baghdad Bob, or any mouthpiece for a despot; Rudy Giuliani

beyond his already dis-bar able actions in lying to obfuscate
(jody look it up)
he is a brilliant man - or at least his pinky ring is

put the command center in the target, brilliant.

hate to say that the ruskies are in, & in control, bought it paid for & harvesting the rewards, they stole the last election, they will be sure to steal the next. . .
dirtbag

climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:44am PT
Nonsense.

Trump is pissed off becuase the press keeps shining a light on unethical and illegal shenanigans undertaken by him and his cronies.

He hates the fact that he cannot control them—just like a dictator. In his book, “Fake news” is a non-fawning press doing its job.


monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:58am PT
Deal with November, Jody.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 11:01am PT
With the excesses of Nixon, Vietnam, DDT, institutionalized racism, the discrimination of women and so on, the far right slunk into a dark corner for a period and the far left surged in mass influence. Of course the left went too far (see Jane Fonda) and payed the price. They've currently all but vanished as a generational movement.

Sorry contractor, but you wrote what you wrote--and it's plain to see you don't have a grasp on late 20th century movements. (I'll grant it could simply be your writing skills that lack clarity.) You should probably stick to exploiting undocumented workers--and lawn bowling.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 11:09am PT
Posted Contractor's quote in its entirety with my original reply. You have a bad habit of defending the indefensible. When the indefensible promotes your liberal worldview. I know, you like to feign rationality on occasion, but no one is being fooled.



And, speaking of indefensible:

Just tell people your a retired Highway Patrolman, you'll get a little more slack.
monolith

climber
state of being
Aug 16, 2018 - 11:15am PT
^^True TDS on display^^
Lituya

Mountain climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 11:17am PT
I can "touch and feel" (It's what I do) that Mueller will hit hard and fast, with a great crescendo of indictments, all at the same time.
Mueller's earlier indictments against foreigners were warnings that were not heeded by the domestically doomed. Nobody came forth, asking for forgiveness. Now, they're gonna get what's coming to them.
I can imagine forty indictments. But, that is just my opinion.

Querencia.


Querencia.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 16, 2018 - 11:20am PT
With the excesses of Nixon, Vietnam, DDT, institutionalized racism, the discrimination of women and so on, the far right slunk into a dark corner for a period and the far left surged in mass influence.

When exactly did this surge occurr, while the far right slunk into a dark corner? When did it peak?

Vietnam protests hit critical mass in '66 or '67. Nixon dealt with it for four years, before winning re-election, with over 60% of the popular vote and a crushing landslide in the Electoral College.

DDT? Was that major issue? On par with Vietnam or the Civil Rights movement?

Jimmy Carter barely beat Ford.

Far left surge? Sure thing.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 11:58am PT
Well, I suppose senate republicans also have tds, since they unanimously passed a resolution pushing back on trump’s “enemy of people” bit.

Left wing fake news source:

https://www.weeklystandard.com/haley-byrd/senate-unanimously-passes-resolution-affirming-free-press

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 16, 2018 - 12:25pm PT
You are right...but the press isn't free anymore. Bought and paid for by the liberal left.


You've never bothered to actually look at who owns the press, have you?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 16, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
c'mon guys, Jody don't history too gud.

factual comparison of Mussolini's press censorship and our president's anti-american, anti-Constitutional attacks on press freedom just don't work, at least when you're talking to a person ign'nt of historical facts.



speaking of ye olde firste amendmente: one pitchfork is a tool, a million of them.....
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 16, 2018 - 02:01pm PT
Remember when folks on the right complained how arrogant Obama was? Good thing they chose such a humble guy.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 16, 2018 - 02:54pm PT
Trump is an embarrassment, but the market is at record highs.

I don't credit him, but I feel sorry for all the foolish people who have failed to take advantage of the greatest wealth building engine in history. 85% of stocks are owned by the richest 10%.
I'm tired of hearing all the whiners.

I have a friend who came here broke on a student visa ten years ago, worked her ass off, became a citizen, invested in real estate, and is now worth mid six figures, well on her way to early retirement.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 16, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
Amen. Worked with a young Filipino dude when I was at Prudhoe Bay. He was a busboy in the cafeteria. Lived with his mom, saved every penny, and bought real estate. At 30 he already owned a 8 unit apt bldg in Fairbanks. Prolly owns two or three more by now.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
Not sure if you're suggesting that the top 10% of us don't whine or not, TV, but I can think of a few who sure do.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
TBC; first world problems, but I suppose its OK to whine if you get grabbed by the pussy.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
Why should anyone, no longer working for the government, be allowed to keep their security clearance?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
Why should anyone, no longer working for the government, be allowed to keep their security clearance?

Because they choose to and they haven't done anything to cause it to be revoked.

There is a document describing legitimate grounds for revocation.

None of which are applicable in Brennan's case, apparently.

Instead, Sanders clarified, Trump is considering steps by which their clearances can be revoked because “they’ve politicized and, in some cases, monetized their public service and security clearances,” as well as “ma[de] baseless accusations of improper contact with Russia or being influenced by Russia against the President.” In 11 years of representing civilian employees, military personnel, political appointees and government contractors in security clearance proceedings, I [Mr. Moss] can say with certainty that these types of “allegations” are nothing like anything I have ever seen in a memorandum outlining bases for denying or revoking a security clearance.

Bradley P. Moss is a partner at the Washington, D.C. Law Office of Mark S. Zaid, P.C., where he has represented countless individuals (including whistleblowers) serving within the intelligence community

What do most politicians do after they leave office?

“they’ve politicized and, in some cases, monetized their public service and security clearances,”
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:21pm PT







You will just bitch to the administration, again,
so i'll refrain from calling u a disingenuous Big C conservative.
In every way, the values being fostered, are not conservative.
Dangerously, by politicizing of security clearances, it also starts to pressure, politicize by threat, the security services.
to send a signal
you all work for me u only toe trump line-


Mixed with a disregard for the US Constitution, a totally flaccid response to attacks from our expressed enemies,
to the point of embrace & meeting, colluding with,
putin in Helsinki, without check?

What can it be but treason's committed against the nation?



Then about these "value"s.

1st there is the walks talks looks like one it is .
These sorts of "values" are so far degraded from
any Conservative norm as to be unrecognizable.

Not conservative values/precepts,
often the antithesis of conservative.

All values, family, fiscal, ethical, professional, paternal, religious,and normal... come to grips with your hypocrisy.




the man just removed from the roles of our protection was one of the most versed in the true history
of the threats that have been brewing for decades. ^

**6 administrations,
holding down the fort against all threats & the Soviets (Ruskies whatever).
His input, his understanding & background was the real threat to Putin,
so,
it looks like there was a list of Americans to be removed
from places of power,
that was passed to our treasonous pussy grabber & thief, rip the government down, destroy democratic pillars
leave carnage in the wake.....

The schmuck is going to spend $$92 million to hold a parade. Thats like 4 times the 12 million,1st floated.
If that happens I think, we should worry that there
will be an all out attack on our military
maybe even an airstrike against the parade?

thnx tut
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
I imagine that few of us are in any sort of a position to have much insight as to whether retired, former government officials should retain security clearances.
I find the analysis in the following link persuasive regarding the reasoning for revoking Brennan's security clearance, namely, that Brennan is a "butthead" Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one--no security clearances for buttheads seems like a pretty good rule.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/15/politics/cia-brennan-security-clearance-trump-congress-cnntv/index.html
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:31pm PT
Served in the last 6 Administrations I Think we can all understand who that makes Brennan,
one of the most informed on the deadly threats All democracies face...
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:46pm PT
Funny how, after some 30 years of exemplary govt service, calling out a demented fool turns one into a butthead!

Butt sheeit at least he did😉N't turn into a dog

Some folks have always been and will always be butth.... er ... trumpers



wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
Toker,there are those of us that lost their 401k’s due to the last Republican POTUS.

As there are plenty a story of riches in this country,from immigrants to old money.

I agree that real estate is the engine,just don’t f*#k it up ,again.

Resistance to this clusterphuck may sound like whines.

Peace
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 16, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
Hey gnome - Did you see kingtut's post?

Instead of acting like a whiny little crybaby, he answered my question.

Thanks Tut 👍

Regarding Brennan's situation, he brought it on himself... regularly trashing Trump. That doesn't justify Trump's action. But let's not pretend Brennan is without blame.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 16, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
Trump is an embarrassment, but the market is at record highs.

I don't credit him, but I feel sorry for all the foolish people who have failed to take advantage of the greatest wealth building engine in history. 85% of stocks are owned by the richest 10%.
I'm tired of hearing all the whiners.

I have a friend who came here broke on a student visa ten years ago, worked her ass off, became a citizen, invested in real estate, and is now worth mid six figures, well on her way to early retirement.

The market was already in a long expansion when Trump took office. He helped extend and boost it with the tax cut. The problem is much of that boost is from additional debt that will need to be paid back. It's one thing to boost the economy using debt in a recession, but to do it during an expansion is pretty short sighted IMO, but most people won't realize that, they'll just look at how things are now.

Things have started turning or at least leveling off (at least in real estate in lots of markets). It's probably time to start taking more defensive positions and stock piling cash to buy things at a discount when things drop. But of course this is all crystal ball territory.

I have empathy for people who don't have the capacity to do as well as I've done. Sure there's lot of people who don't invest who should, but many people are hand to mouth or aren't intelligent or educated enough to really get ahead. The economy should at least produce a living wage for them too. I'm not in favor of high taxes on the well off, but I am in favor of policies that help workers make a living wage and protect their rights. The more I learn about the tax code and the benefits available for investors the more I realize the tax burden is so much on the shoulders of the wage earners.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 04:35pm PT

Why should anyone, no longer working for the government, be allowed to keep their security clearance?

Because those who work on sensitive issues sometimes appreciate, and need, the information and advice those who came before them can offer.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
Wow! Who here would have thought this thread would go over 1,000 posts.

Certainly not ATG, who wrote this in post #14 on this thread:

Jul 25, 2018 - 10:08pm PT
Lock this thread too.

Its another hateful echo chamber.


I was off the web & in the Idaho mountains, when we blew by 1,000 posts.

My sincere thanks to all the reasonable folks, who post good stuff here.

Here's a photo I took today, which demonstrates what happens to those who lean too-far to the right.


the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 16, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
Its another hateful echo chamber.

Always amusing when one of the multiple conservatives here complains because they are outnumbered here vs. the likely many places in their lives they choose to spend time where their views are supported. It's not like there is only one conservative fighting the good fight. There's always multiple conservatives, multiple moderates, and yes a lot of progressives on these threads, but framing the discussion as the righteous me vs. all these far left kooks makes it easy to ignore other people's view and just keep trying to prove you are right (at least to your own mind).


To continue my post above: Trump has also decreased regulation which has helped boost the economy. Govt. often imposes new regulations in a knee jerk reactionary way and they end up being a burden. The problem is Trump frames all regulation as bad, when in fact many are important to protect people and common goods. We should do a better job reviewing existing regulations and modifying or tossing ones that don't have the desired effects or include too much red tape. But Trump et al are throwing out ones there to protect consumers, borrowers, investors, clean air and water, etc. I'm sure some they have gotten rid of some regulations that should have gone, but I suspect many are gone that protect the public for the benefit of large corporations and the very wealthy (often since they have the dollars/power to push for what they want).
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
Mah earz is a ringin'


Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 16, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
Oh there it is



I hate it when I get sux'd into these threads







Edward T,
it strikes me that I should point out that my life is more truly conservative/Republican than it is progressive/Democrat.

Also read my whole post.

do you just parrot phaux with out thinking?





zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 16, 2018 - 06:26pm PT
Some folks never post anything with content.


Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Aug 16, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
the Fet; thanks for your thoughtful posts.


edit: and this:
"Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation," McRaven said of Trump.

"If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be," he added.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/mcraven-trump-brennan-security-clearance-revoke/index.html
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 16, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
^YES. We all are an us. Divide and conquer your own, a fine method for the oligarchild afraid of its own subjects (afraid of both sides he is).



I am so confused why others that benefit off the market for sitting on money find it endearing to talk about people that worked for some and then sat on it in this lifetime. Some kind of ancestor worship/imagined modern-day Horatio Alger incarnation?


I suppose I like the ideology when it's applied to fine new rock clamping finds. I've got mine so f*#k you. One thing is more finite than the other: aesthetic climbing rocks, money.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 16, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
.... because don't anything else requires spending money and creating new beaurocracy.
Okaaaaay ......... Makes perfect sense to me, so good point there Senor Troll. Learn to speak (or, in this case, write) English. Is a 'beaurocracy ' anything like a dresser or a night stand? Maybe your meant бюрократия.

1200 post in the last three months; must be getting paid a piece rate....

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 16, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
you know before when I would never even bother with the spell checking
enjoyed how simple it made knowing whos a f*#king piece of it
Right, got it. That's 1201. Какая запутанная паутина мы плетуем, когда начинаем врать.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 16, 2018 - 08:23pm PT
seems to me that maybe Jody is kinda inta that transexual person what got elected, in one way or some others. which is interesting.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Aug 16, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
seems to me that maybe Jody is kinda inta that transexual person what got elected, in one way or some others. which is interesting.

It seems to me, more like, you all have a fixation on Jody.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 16, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
I imagine that few of us are in any sort of a position to have much insight as to whether retired, former government officials should retain security clearances.

I find the analysis in the following link persuasive regarding the reasoning for revoking Brennan's security clearance, namely, that Brennan is a "butthead" Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one--no security clearances for buttheads seems like a pretty good rule.

I would think you would think so----so long as YOU decided who is a Butthead!

I'm not so sure you would agree when it was the opposition to you who decided.

You either believe in free speech, or you don't. Apparently not.

The Gov't taking action against individuals expressing opinions is not something which has been done in thie country. Until now.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Aug 16, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
Not that surprising when you consider that about half of all African-Americans identify as conservatives.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 16, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
I HATE socialism and I HATE ....

Wow.

On another topic, ATG, our little Ruskie agent, what's the pay?

Edited to add: That's pretty f*#ked Jody; you might want to read what you wrote and understand what hate you expressed. Damn.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
The “somewhat-conservative” magazine, Military Times, reports that Trump’s parade will now cost 92 million dollars & that 89% of American polled oppose it.

Please, conservatives!

Speak up for your support of our President’s, very expensive folly???

President Donald Trump’s military parade is now estimated to cost $92 million, according to a U.S. defense official with firsthand knowledge of the assessment who spoke with CNBC.

The initial cost for the military parade was pegged at $12 million, with higher estimates still only putting the cost at $30 million. The parade’s price tag has been controversial, with supporters lauding it as an opportunity to pay formal respect to service members, while critics say there are better ways to spend the funds to help active duty and veterans alike.

A Military Times poll in February found that the vast majority of respondents oppose the idea of a parade. Almost 104,000 people voted, with the majority — 89 percent — saying the military has more important needs to address.

Trump’s inspiration for the parade came in part from his visit to Paris for France’s Bastille Day military parade alongside French President Emmanuel Macron.

“It was a tremendous day, and to a large extent because of what I witnessed, we may do something like that on July 4 in Washington down Pennsylvania Avenue,” Trump said at the time, according to CNBC. “We’re going to have to try to top it, but we have a lot of planes going over and a lot of military might, and it was really a beautiful thing to see, and representatives from different wars and different uniforms."
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/08/16/trumps-military-parade-estimated-to-cost-80-million-more-than-previously-estimated/

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 16, 2018 - 09:14pm PT
Jody wants the nanny state to protect queer people's peckers. Again, curious.

Did Jody see the parade?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Aug 16, 2018 - 09:21pm PT
Trump , wanting to help the American tax payer , asked Putin if he would lend some military hardware for the parade...
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
ATG? Per your Trump support?

Aside from tweeting and trusting sewerswamp rats, Trump is a badass gangster of a president and I would take a bullet for him.


Does that mean you are supporting his $92,000,000.00 million dollar parade?

I'll assume so, unless I hear different.

What a fine conservative you are.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
.....just like that I have a GoFundMe page for penis size reduction surgery and I onsite 5.11.
Can you provide the web address? You might get some business as I'd (probably) donate money to help you have the surgery, you little Ruskie.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:16pm PT
I HATE socialism and I HATE ....

Well, you certainly made a bold statement as to hating quite a few persons in the world. I'm not a 'socialist' but I certainly am a libtard, whom you seem to hate as well. I guess Jesus allows you to love the transgendered but hate the liberal. Weird but oddly convenient.
MarkWestman

Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:30pm PT
Parade “postponed” by the Pentagon. I would guess that’s a tactful way of saying “it’s not happening at all”. American Legion says money “better spent on fully funding the Department of Veterans affairs”.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/military-parade-postponed/index.html
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 16, 2018 - 11:39pm PT
The whole idea of a parade to honor the military is a phucking joke. It was intended as a monument to Trumps massive ego. Having been a participant in a number of "parades" I can tell you it is not an honor, it is a major PITA.
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