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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:23am PT
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Reilly,
I posted this on the Chris Froome Salbutamol thread earlier in the year. Bob has a very unique sense of humor.....
More OT, When a bike racer gets married it has been a tradition to have a 'freedom ride' or the last ride as a free man:-)
When Andy Hampsten was getting married we went out for the freedom ride(leaving a bit late) and all got pulled over by the police for supposedly riding three abreast. None of us had any ID's so the police wanted to haul us all into the station to sort it out. It was an hour by bike back to Boulder and the wedding started in two hours so we pleaded with the cops that we would give our real names so just start writing tickets. It didn't help that the SWAT team showed up for some reason.
So, we finally convinced the cops that we would give our real names and the first person the cops walked up to was Bob Roll. They asked him his name and in broken English he says, "my name is Francesco Moser, Italiano" We tried as hard as we could to no bust out laughing, but the officer wrote the ticket and thankfully the rest of us gave our real names. We just made it back in time for the wedding.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:59am PT
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Oh, I should add something to the story above. A few weeks after the incident Bob was interviewed by Outside Magazine for a feature article. Bob told the same story to the writer and when the journalist wrote up the incident he said something like, "just a couple of weeks ago, Bob, and a group of world class cyclists were pulled over....."
Nice to know that I am a "world class cyclist"
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:19am PT
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Oh man, Richie Porte crashed out on the ninth stage again!
The cobblestones show no mercy! Rest day today then into the hills. Sagan has a pretty comfy lead on the Green. As long as he stays upright, which would take a cyclone to knock him off since he's one of the best bike handlers I've seen in years, he looks to be on his way to Paris with the Green Jersey secured.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
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What do you all think about the inclusion of cobbles in the Tour? They clearly made for some very exciting racing, but are they a fair test for Tour riders?
My current thinking is that they shouldn't be included. Yes, luck certainly plays a part in doing well in the Tour, but the problem I have with the cobbles is that to ride them well takes a lot of ability and experience and most Tour riders don't have that level of experience. It's one thing if you crash by yourself on the cobbles. That's your fault. But, a lot of the top contenders who went down yesterday did so because they were caught up in crashes caused by other riders.
To be sure, riders get taken down by other riders at the Tour, but the cobbles dealt out more than your average stage. I don't think that's a case of bad luck. I think back to the 2010 Tour and the stage into Liege when very slick roads caused a lot of riders, more than usual, to crash. The peloton realized that this was not just bike racing and neutralized the finish.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:46pm PT
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What do you all think about the inclusion of cobbles in the Tour? They clearly made for some very exciting racing, but are they a fair test for Tour riders? My current thinking is that they shouldn't be included.
Before debating whether cobbles should be included, one has to decide what the TDF is really about. I'd like to see it be about more than just road riding.
Many of the first eight stages were, there's no other word for it, boring. Ride in a big bunch for 200 km and then have a 300 meter race?
Okay, maybe the last 10 km are actual racing, but even granting that there's a bit of excitement at the end, all the GC guys are simply riding in a protected cocoon, saving themselves for the stages that actually have some impact on the final outcome.
Personally, I'd like to see more cobble-type stages. At least the cobbles test something more than endurance and climbing. Why not throw in some mountain-bike stages? More cobbles? Something, anything, to test the riders in more than endurance and climbing.
Or, god forbid, a trials stage...
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:46am PT
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I thought they made for great viewing and an epic contest, but didn't help the race and probably should haven't been included. Maybe leave them for the classics...
Concur with leaving it for the classics. However, dealing with what Mother Nature dishes out can add to the same element of risk. You never know what you'll be faced with. And leaders have been caught up with crashes when it rains or the temps drops. Just my 2 cents.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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ChizzDizzle
Trad climber
Rocklin,CA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:51am PT
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I personally liked the cobbles. They seem to shake up the GC every year they are included.
The grand tours are supposed to be the most well rounded rider but it is mostly who can climb the best and TT the best. I like watching the TDF but I really like watching the classics because the courses are brutal and the weather is usually crappy. The Tour of Flanders aka De Ronde is my favorite. Cobbles, hills , rain, wind, mud and Belgium baby. I watch the TDF because it is on. Oh and Bob Roll is awesome.
It seems like the outcome was decided once Froome was allowed to race. I do not think he should have been allowed to race. Peter Sagan is a rock star who happens to race and the sport is better off for him.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
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The cobbles are like climbing long runouts in Whillans harnesses with only a hip belay. OK, they’re worse than that.
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BigB
Trad climber
Red Rock
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Jul 17, 2018 - 01:07pm PT
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cobbles/dirt roads def.should be included in the TDF...
the tour is considered the most prestigious thing to have on your palmares, in the world of cycling, the world champ. and the classics both pale in comparison. To win the TDF you should have to show you are the best all rounder..including cobbles, road furniture, slick surfaces, crazy pelotons, noobs, weather, rabid fans, musette bag handles or even the infamous dirt roads they've used in the giro.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 17, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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Agreed...that’s why it is a test like no other in the sporting world...and why the yellow jersey means so much and the green jersey so little.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Jul 17, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
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...and why the yellow jersey means so much and the green jersey so little.
Tell that to the 3-time World Champion of road racing.....
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BigB
Trad climber
Red Rock
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Jul 17, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
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Tell that to the 3-time World Champion of road racing.....
I’m guessing... but I’d bet that Sagan would trade all of those for 1 TDF overall. It’s the SuperBowl of pro cycling everything else is stepping stones to it
Everyone that peddles a bike in a amateur race from the shittiest punter to the cat1 freak has thought about what winning that race is like. Jus sayin
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 17, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
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Sagan realizes that he is not a GC rider, so I think he is pretty happy with winning the Green Jersey. Same thing with whoever wins the KoM title.
btw,I think Gaviria should have been dq'd for his kerfuffle with Greipel, the other day.
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Bale
Mountain climber
UT
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Jul 17, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
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MMCC, maybe a brown and red jersey:) I guess the cobbles make for interesting viewing, but to include them in such a brutal contest as Le Tour is downright mean! Oh well, bring it
on, more skills and strategy involved I suppose.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Jul 17, 2018 - 03:44pm PT
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The cobbles of Stage 9 were, by far, the most interesting racing and riding thus far in the Tour. While great spectator sport, I'm not convinced there is a need for them in the TDF.
There is a good deal of risk and chance involved in racing with such large numbers. Surviving three weeks and 21 stages is no small feat in itself.
But, when the odds of being taken out of the competition, through no fault of your own, are significantly increased, perhaps this should be rethought for this type of grand tour race.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
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One way to look at the cobble question is to realize that all pro sports are entertainment. It's a business. If you can't make money at it you are no longer in business.
I still think the cobbles have the potential to make the racing unfair, especially if someone who can't ride the cobbles goes down in front of you and you crash as well. However, viewed solely in terms of entertainment value it was a great win for the Tour.
I guess the real question is can the entertainment aspect as well as the fair sporting aspect coexist?
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
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The 10th stage included an ascent of the Col du Glieres(AKA Les Plateau des Glieres) for the first time ever in the Tour de France. I rode this road in 2007. Here are several photos. Yes, the climb was pretty hard!
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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I still think the cobbles have the potential to make the racing unfair, especially if someone who can't ride the cobbles goes down in front of you and you crash as well.
The same thing can happen during a sprint finish or mountain descent . . . that is part of the allure of cycling. Let us not sanitize it too much.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
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The same thing can happen during a sprint finish or mountain descent . . . that is part of the allure of cycling. Let us not sanitize it too much.
Exactly.
If removal of risk from the Tour is the goal, then let's hold it inside. Artificial hills, no road furniture, no bumps on the "road" surface...
No sane person wants to see riders die or suffer permanent injury. But at the same time, if there's nothing to it except who can put out the most watts, then why not just put all the competitors on some kind of stationary bike?
Somewhere between those two lies a race that will require the winner to have the best all-round skill set (and serious cojones).
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jul 17, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
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The same thing can happen during a sprint finish or mountain descent . . . that is part of the allure of cycling. Let us not sanitize it too much.
Personally, I think the cobbles are a different category than mountain descents and sprint finishes. Having said that, I have been lobbying the UCI for many years to take the GC time at 1km to go on sprint stages so the GC riders don't have to contest the sprints.
There are two reasons for this. First off, the GC riders don't have to take part in the dangerous sprints to keep their GC time. Secondly, the sprinters don't have to deal with the GC riders getting in their way during the sprint which makes it more dangerous for all.
Chris Horner told me that when he raced grand tours he was always trying to convince all his GC rivals to sit up and just come across the line at the same time, well behind the sprinters, so they wouldn't have to deal with all the chaos. He said that everyone agreed during the stage, but when they got toward the finish the deal would dissolve and everyone ended up going for it.
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