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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 24, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
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WTF Craig gone again? Bring him back he's needed.
He's a useful idiot for his cause.
The spectacle of his over the top attack rants are an effective recruitment tool for his opposition.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 24, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Jun 24, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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I received an email from Craig Fry today, noting his ST account had been suspended, due to ... complaining about a remark Craig made in the Anthony Bourdain thread.
I appreciate Craig was really hated by many of the conservatives on ST, but I wasn't able to find any of his quotes worthy of removal on that thread. As a liberal I acknowledge that initially Craig's posts were irritating to me.
However as soon as I understood typical patterns of his posts I stopped reading them and he stopped bothering me.
There was no reason to ban Craig. His posts were predictable and devoid of original thoughts and facts.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 24, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
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There was no reason to ban Craig. His posts were predictable and devoid of original thoughts and facts.
My sentiments exactly. Thanks.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 24, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
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Doesn’t this belong in the First World Probs thread?
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Jun 24, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
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2-4-2
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 24, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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There was no reason to ban Craig. His posts were predictable and devoid of original thoughts and facts.
Can be said about a significant percentage* of the posts on the ST.
Why not ban all the offenders.
*What is the percentage? An exercise left to the readers.
We’ve just seen a huge space explosion and don’t know what it is
Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin'
The weather was hot, a-nearly ninety degrees
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me
Yeah, the locusts sang off in the distance
Yeah, the locusts sang such a sweet melody
Oh, the locusts sang off in the distance
And the locusts sang and they were singing for me
-Cow Cow Boogie aka La Migra
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Jun 24, 2018 - 06:45pm PT
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We are becoming a mean boy nation, a nation once of immigrants but now one of bullies and tyrants. Our president breaks everything he sees, including our democracy and our republic.
A classic libsterical response. YOU are projecting and sooo brainwashed. YOU are the problem. Get off yur puter. Get off yur ass and do something outside yur basement. Stop calling people who you don't know...Nazi's. YOU are the real Nazi.
You spend much of yur life here XCon. Serving almost nothing to mankind besides spewing hate speech.
Yur masters got you locked down tight you poor sucker
I dare you to stop posting here for 1 month and get a life. Be free?
I know you can't do it you fool...lol
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 24, 2018 - 07:03pm PT
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Banned....Again...He should be re-instated for buildering with only a lamp shade for clothing...
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Jun 24, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
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Just sayin' here. I don't think Craig should be off the Taco. Craig has climbed, Craig is a climber, Craig has done some great stuff on the rock. Maybe Dude Craig you need to pull it in when you talk about stuff not rock relevant.
But HoMan, who are you? Why do your words count here? Just askin'.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 24, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
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Everybody's a dreamer And everybody's a star And everyone's in movies It doesn't matter who you are There are stars in every city In every house and on every street And if you walk down Hollywood Boulevard Their are names written in concrete
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 24, 2018 - 11:05pm PT
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^^What Lynne said.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 24, 2018 - 11:42pm PT
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It is a terrible thing to repress freedom of speech.
But, with freedom of speech comes responsibility.
Here's a story:
Some guy, from Mississippi, was at the local saloon, and declaring that he had every right to say Nica, Nica, Nica, or something similar. I pointed out that he had the right to say that, but that it didn't seem to be an appropriate thing to say, at least not in the place he was saying it.
His forceful retort was, "I can say NICA, NICA, NICA! anytime I want! This is America!"
The owner of the saloon came out to the patio, gently. and asked that guy to leave, immediately. And then? The Mississippi guy was confused, about what he was doing wrong. He had a First Amendment Right to say whatever he wanted to say.
So, Mitchell, the owner told him, in a gentle voice:
This is my place. I like everybody. But, I don't like what you are saying. So, if you say things like that, I have to ask you to leave.
A person can have the First Amendment right to say Nica, Nica, Nica, or that a guy looks fat and stupid, or whatever, but he runs the risk of being anti-social and likely to incite a physical confrontation.
The courts have ruled that inflammatory speech, that has no other purpose, has no protection under the First Amendment.
Talking smack, in a factual manner, is not the same thing as inventively disparaging others. The courts, for at least a hundred years, have ruled that disparaging talk, if backed up by facts about the disparagee, does not constitute slander, or defamation. And, such factual disparagement is protected by the First Amendment.
It is important that we adhere to the facts when disparaging people we don't agree with.
After all, saying truthful and disparaging things about people we don't agree with has long, long history, going back to the Ancient Greeks.
The Ancient Greeks called it arguing ad hominem, a classic form of false reasoning, wherein the speaker, and not his argument, is attacked.
False accusations against a speaker is a separate, and different, form of false reasoning.
I don't know what the Ancient Greeks called that.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Jun 25, 2018 - 09:43am PT
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^^^^^^
An apt description of today’s phenomenon…Were it not for the priesthood’s proclivity for child buggery, it might be more dignified to be a Catholic. Were it not for their caging of babies, it might be more profitable in the short term to team with the Republicans.
Sadly, for those who might not understand the martyr phenomenon or progressivism, if you cut off the voice of one articulate, educated, and spirited poster who raises the banner for human rights, they will eventually grow ten more.
But of course there is in my view every reason under the sun not to enlist with right wing or religious cadres.
A. It’s not in my blood
B. ad infinitum
Wishing for Mr Fry’s eventual return to the site.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 25, 2018 - 09:57am PT
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The courts have ruled that inflammatory speech, that has no other purpose, has no protection under the First Amendment.
Could you cite where you're getting this, Tom? I've studied this pretty extensively, and the closest thing I get is that "fighting words" are not protected speech. But the SCOTUS has really, really narrowly constrained what that phrase means, and it does NOT included "inflammatory speech" in any broad sense.
Most recently, the SCOTUS explicitly stated that "hate speech" does not count as "fighting words," nor is it excluded from first amendment protection.
So, I find your particular phraseology nowhere, and a host of speech that would fit that category as you've worded it is explicitly protected by SCOTUS rulings.
I found CF easy to ignore and don't think that banning of his type is the way to go. Of course, CMac isn't beholden to the first amendment on this site, so he and his team can do what they like.
However, there are others here (on both "sides") that are at least as "inflammatory" (some much more so) than CF. So, I'm not sure where the banning-bar is set.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 25, 2018 - 11:19am PT
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The courts, for at least a hundred years, have ruled that disparaging talk, if backed up by facts about the disparagee, does not constitute slander, or defamation. And, such factual disparagement is protected by the First Amendment.
I wanted to point out that the standard for slander or defamation for public individuals is far, far higher than non-public individuals.
Truth is a defense in a slander/defamation trial, but it is not the only defense.
I'm not sure what Craig was accused of and I'm not really interested in the details, but crass statements about a public individual (whether dead or alive) would get first amendment protection.
Unfortunately for Craig, SuperTopo isn't legally required to give first amendment protections. I actually think that there should be some legal restrictions on the censoring of social media, but that is a thread for a different day.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 25, 2018 - 12:19pm PT
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I don't want to kick a guy who's not around to defend himself, so I'll just say that I enjoy reading posts I disagree with much more than those that share my views.
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Trump
climber
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Jun 25, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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The whole shebang is going to hell in a handbasket! This guy was a climber! He knew the secret climber handshake and everything!
Me, I’m climbing my walls wondering why the words you type into your computer while browsing some public 12-member-website-forum should have any standing at all, here among we climber-illuminati. Go find some public forum of your own to comment in, and leave us to our exhaustively-climber-vetted conversation! Nonclimbers opinions about politics are almost as bad as ___ .
This stuff just starts to all sound the same. Yea climber tribe! You others go back where you came from.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 25, 2018 - 05:00pm PT
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arent "fighting world" and "inflammatory speech" one and the same?
No, they explicitly are not. If you'll read up on the SCOTUS' interpretation of these matters, you'll quickly discover that "hate speech" and "words that tend to outrage or inflame" are not immediately exceptions to first amendment protection.
At the very least, "inflammatory speech" as described by Tom is far, far too broad of a category, and the vast majority of what could be described that way IS protected.
Of course, again, sites like the Taco Stand are not bound by the first amendment.
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