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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 24, 2018 - 01:29pm PT
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The United States first military chaplain was Jacob Duché. Duche was originally pro-independence, but switched sides, he was considered a total Duche.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 24, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
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Isn't this the an equivalent of a therapist?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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maybe, but none of these knucklehead reps would go be that vulnerable in DC where the merest whiff sends the sharks into a frenzy.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 24, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
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Story tellers charge much less and there tales are more interesting.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2018 - 08:50am PT
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I thought there was supposed to be separation of church and state?
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dirtbag
climber
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May 25, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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I’m also wondering how this comports with the first amendment.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2018 - 09:14am PT
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That’s different, they actually do something that merits a soothing word.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 25, 2018 - 09:32am PT
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I’m also wondering how this comports with the first amendment.
Congress made no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof?
The house cites Article 1, Section 2, Clause 5 in the United States Constitution as giving it the authority to select a Chaplain, "The House of Representatives shall choose their speaker and other officers"
They ruled that a chaplain is an officer. That’s a house rule, not a law. And it was the House, not Congress.
Note that the Constitution doesn’t say that the Speaker has to be elected or even an American citizen. Maybe Republicans will select Putin after Ryan leaves.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 25, 2018 - 09:36am PT
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Not as weird as your taxes going to a billionaire nut.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2018 - 09:46am PT
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Maybe you need to speak to a chaplain, or stay off of StuporTopo? 🤓
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2018 - 11:52am PT
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Congress made no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof?
The house cites Article 1, Section 2, Clause 5 in the United States Constitution as giving it the authority to select a Chaplain, "The House of Representatives shall choose their speaker and other officers"
They ruled that a chaplain is an officer. That’s a house rule, not a law. And it was the House, not Congress.
Thx Lorenzo for the citation!
I'm assuming that somewhere it says officers of the House must be paid, but that since the public won't donate to it, that defaults to taxpayer funded?
If that were a law, specifically mentioning 'officers' must be paid, then someone could take the issue to court.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 25, 2018 - 11:59am PT
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I'm curious if the guy is like a church, paying no income tax?
If he's putting a third or more of those $ back into the coffer's, that's one thing.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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May 25, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
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When I was in the military, you were required to attend a Christian service on Sundays.
"Required" means that you were given a clear dichotomous choice: either go to a Christian church service, or the drill instructor would give you some intolerable, nasty, demeaning task to perform, like cleaning sewers.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 25, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
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If that were a law, specifically mentioning 'officers' must be paid, then someone could take the issue to court.
I’m all for you going to court. I assume you have several million to pay your lawyers.
Have them throw in that “in God we trust” thing while they are at it, that ain’t in the constitution either.
Let us all know how it goes.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 25, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
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I'm curious if the guy is like a church, paying no income tax?
Good question. Here’s the rule on that.
Ministers can exclude from their income a rental allowance or the fair rental value of a parsonage that is provided to them as pay for their services. This exemption applies only for income tax purposes. The exclusion does not apply to self-employment taxes.
As long as we are being all upitty on the pay of public employees, I suggest you file a lawsuit that all public employees be required to disclose their taxes. Let’s start with the Moron in Chief.
Our great leader is reforming the public employee sector today, I see.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 25, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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What about putting a hand on the bible (or other religious book) when taking the oath of office? Is a higher power acting as the trusted 3rd party to certify one's allegiance?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 25, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
It can be in the form of Oath or affirmation. Some presidents have affirmed, presumably because swearing is against principle( or the biblical proscription on swearing oaths)
Oddly, no bible, hand, or mention of God are required. Allegiance to the Constitution is the only requirement.
At least one president, Franklin Pierce, affirmed. Some say Hoover, also a Quaker affirmed, but that is less clear. Nixon, also a Quaker, swore, but that didn’t surprise anybody.
He swore playing golf.
Many presidents just said “I do” or I Swear” to a recitation of the oath. Washington was among them. He reportedly said “I do”. Note that “affirm” would have to be in the recitation to be accurate. John Quincy Adams and Franklin Pierce put their hands on a law book, not a bible, respecting the Constitution.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 25, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
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In the immortal words of Vonnegut, "So it goes."
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 25, 2018 - 03:50pm PT
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...or Linda Ellerbee.
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