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granite_messiah
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 14, 2018 - 03:57pm PT
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I'm in the process of developing my rope solo system for lead climbing, and I'd like some input (other than "yer gonna die!") regarding current methods, gear, etc. I've looked at a number of online resoures from folks like Matt Hunter, healyje, Andy Kirkpatrick, etc but much of this information is years old and may be outdated. Here are a few of the subjects I'm seeking input on:
solo belay device - it seems like the new Revo device from Wild Country is getting some good reviews for this use, so I'm leaning toward this. Most people seem to use grigris modified to orient the device so the rope feeds through properly, so this seems to be a well-traveled path although I don't really like the idea of having to modify the device. The Edelrid Eddy, championed by healyje, apparently requires no such modification. Devices specifically developed for rope soloing, like the Silent Parnter, Soloist, etc, are basically unavailable unless you want to buy an old used one off ebay.
ascender - after leading the pitch, building a top anchor and abseiling back down, the rope solo climber must ascend the rope and clean the route. The petzl micro traxion seems like one of the most popular options for this. Any pros/cons for other alternatives?
rope in backpack or trailing down - some climbers report problems with their belay device if the weight of the trailing rope is hanging off of it, so they carry the rope in a backpack as they climb (e.g. Matt Hunter's youtube video). Others address this problem by introducing another device into the configuration to hold the weight of the trailing rope. This is dependent on which belay device is being used as not all devices have a problem when loaded with the weight of the trailing rope. And there is also the consideration that a trailing rope could get caught on something, so that's an advantage of carrying the rope in a backpack.
Please chime in with your opinions regarding the above subjects and other data regarding your rope solo setups for lead climbing. This is not a troll post. I genuinely would like to see some discussion and input as I prepare to enter this new world of climbing.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 14, 2018 - 05:10pm PT
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Yur
Gonna
Die
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L
climber
Just livin' the dream on the California coast
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May 14, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
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Yur
Gonna
Die
But since he's the "messiah", he'll rise again.....right?
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WBraun
climber
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May 14, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
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Buy the Revo device from Wild Country and start climbing.
There's only one way to do it, ..... start climbing.
Thinking about it and talking about it ain't gonna get you anywhere as far as experience goes.
Test your system on a single pitch off the ground.
DON"T DECK ......
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 14, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
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just a note that the rope hanging down works great with the Eddy as the rope path is opposite of the grigri and is basically designed for that modality. I just personally kind of loathe climbing with it hanging down so I don't. But because I don't, I always have to make sure I have enough slack out of the pack for a good loop of rope to hang below the device as that is the way it optimally want's to be - with both sides of the rope hanging down. The second either side ends up above the device it trips, particularly the supply side.
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WBraun
climber
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May 14, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
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I can't wait to use my car seat belt device for solo rock climbing ....
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granite_messiah
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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I'm listening....it does give me pause that the Revo is a new device. I might go with the Eddy instead since it has a proven track record of success.
Any other links or advice you might want to throw in here would be greatly appreciated. I'm vacuuming up everything I can find online, but maybe I missed something. This is a completely new mode of climbing for me so I'd like to learn from the wealth of experience here.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 14, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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the Silent Partner was basically a seat belt retracter. I bet one could be adapted to climbing
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 14, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
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I always had good results (i.e., I didn't die) with a Soloist.
But if you use it...
...yer gonna die.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 14, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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Anyone wants to send me a Revo I'll demo it and check it out compared to the Eddy - could be the great white whale of lead rope soloing or it could be a complete dud, no way to know without giving it a whirl. Otherwise, I'm fine with my Eddy until I can test one against it.
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fat-n-sassy
Social climber
San Francity, CA
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May 14, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
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I use a GriGri because a) I already own one b) I'm not a pussy and c) I don't climb fast enough to be concerned about how the rope "feeds."
I like to keep the extra rope on me (in a bag on my harness usually) unless it is really really steep and there is zero wind. This preference came about after several sketchy experiences.
I clean on two jumars, just like normal cleaning. A minitrax (or similar) really doesn't add anything IMO.
Everything that can go wrong always does, but only when you're soloing. Definitely practice on single pitches. Alot.
Hauling with one person is LOADS of fun.
You will die.
Yer gunna
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 14, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
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I'd suggest just doing it. I do it with the grigri, haven't f*#ked around with the Eddy yet, though I own it.
Like life, you will seriously f*#king die. And, like masturbation, you'll never get off if you don't try.
Safety knots, like condoms, detract from the sensation. So just try it, don't fall, and you will still always die. Couch sound better?
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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May 14, 2018 - 08:56pm PT
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Jim's idea for using a seat belt has lots of potential. However, hauling the car could be a bitch.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 14, 2018 - 10:42pm PT
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I had high hopes for the Tesla 'AutoBelay 3', but now I'm having second thoughts.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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May 14, 2018 - 10:54pm PT
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i'm converting a yukon xl for glamping and have something like 6 seat belt retractors removed i'll let you have for the cost of one revo.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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May 15, 2018 - 06:17am PT
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Hamie, please tell me you're here all week. Killah! Like rope soloing.
BAd
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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May 15, 2018 - 06:54am PT
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I used a Rock Exotica Soloist. Climbed a lot of routes with it. Only real problem is you need to have a back up loop of rope attached to you. It will not hold a fall if you get inverted. Roped solo climbing is a lot of work but the rewards are worth it.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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May 15, 2018 - 07:17am PT
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Anyone try the GriGri +
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WBraun
climber
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May 15, 2018 - 07:23am PT
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I also used a Rock Exotica Soloist, but never backed it up nor tied into the end of the rope, (just left it hanging in free space).
Too much trouble backing it up at the speed I was moving ..... lol.
I only used it to free climb soloing.
It only served me as a psychological tool pretty much ......
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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May 15, 2018 - 07:24am PT
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the Silent Partner was basically a seat belt retracter. I bet one could be adapted to climbing
Calling EKat-you have another fire to put out:)
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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May 15, 2018 - 08:19am PT
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“May 15, 2018 - 07:23am PT
I also used a Rock Exotica Soloist, but never backed it up nor tied into the end of the rope, (just left it hanging in free space).
Too much trouble backing it up at the speed I was moving ..... lol.
I only used it to free climb soloing.”
Is there any other type of climbing
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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May 15, 2018 - 10:01am PT
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I have been soloing with the Revo lately and find it much smoother than my SP and doesn't even compare to the Grigri. For aid soloing I still prefer the Grigri, better for lowering out for tension traversing or pendulums and is just more multi purpose. For pure rope solo free climbing the Revo just works better. I have only taken one unexpected fall with the Revo on slightly less than vertical ground with my feet two or three feet above my last piece and the Revo locked up quick. I don't use a backpack method and don't use back up knots that often, i don't like to have to stop mid move and undo a knot. So far I give the Revo a two thumbs up.
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Da-Veed
Big Wall climber
Bigfork
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May 15, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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Been solo a bunch.
I was convinced not to use a Grigri, I did use it alot and it worked, then I was giving a well respected climber (if there is such a thing) a ride to El Cap and he started talking of the single clip in point on the Grigri and how it could twist and fail in a serious fall. At that point I returned to the Silent Partner that will fit two lockers. I never really like my SP because it was bulky, I took a good fall on EC with it and now I would never go back.
Invest in real jumars, don't skimp there.
A rope bucket (FISH Snake charmer) in essential for me to keep the ropes organized and out of the way. The continuous loop works really well, attach a small (FISH) bag to the connection points and hang the bag off a fifi, then you can bring up extra gear or water or weed or whatever you are lonely for plus the haul line when finishing the pitch.
We're all gunna die...so fu@k it!
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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May 15, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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Rope buckets really help on multi pitch
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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May 15, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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First rule of rope solo climbing - Do not fall.
Second rule of rope solo climbing: See first rule.
Third rule of rope solo climbing: See second rule.
If you are new to rope solo climbing, be aware that the re-ascending process can be harsh on ropes caused by the rope rubbing on edges.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 15, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
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g_m- Are you planning on doing mostly aid or free climbing while soloing?
It does make a difference in the system you choose.
A rope bucket is better than using some sort of backpack to keep the rope contained. Bluewater Cauldron or something similar.
PS- We're all gonna die but TIMING is EVERYTHING...LOL
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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May 16, 2018 - 12:13am PT
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Calling PTPP... wasn't there some lengthy discussions about this years ago and Pete put together some really good tutorials? I couldn't figure out the correct search wording but regardless of devise used they were some darn good tips. With pics I believe.
S...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 16, 2018 - 12:57am PT
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I think we need to distinguish between free lead soloing and aid soloing - vastly different activities. I use an Eddy for free, a grigri for aid.
Can't go along with the "do not fall" sentiment. I'm climbing and sometimes doing it at my limit and falling happens - that's exactly why I have a device and rope rather than free soloing - if I didn't have faith in my system to catch falls I wouldn't be doing it.
P.S. Good to hear a positive Revo report...
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 16, 2018 - 01:24am PT
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I think we need to distinguish between free lead soloing and aid soloing - vastly different activities. I use an Eddy for free, a grigri for aid.
Can't go along with the "do not fall" sentiment. I'm climbing and sometimes doing it at my limit and falling happens - that's exactly why I have a device and rope rather than free soloing - if I didn't have faith in my system to catch falls I wouldn't be doing it.
+1. I do, however, back them up. And for the record, I've fallen (and, obviously, been caught) using at least two discredited methods -- The "Barnett System" and the Silent Partner. Neither ever failed me, and I wonder if any of the current state of the art simply hasn't failed yet.
John
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granite_messiah
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2018 - 07:12am PT
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Steve, I'm looking at rope solo free climbing, not aid climbing. Thanks for clarifying!
Da-Veed I think I'll follow your advice and buy a jumar with a handle similar to the petzl ascension or black diamond index ascender, as opposed to a pulley like the petzl micro traxion. Although it's additional weight and bulk, I can see how this might make life easier. This is what you're suggesting, right? Anybody else have an opinion on this?
BTW, I've had the Revo on order at REI for almost a month now but it hasn't shipped. If I can't get my hands on this thing within the next week or so I'll probably go for the Edelrid Eddy instead. I'm hoping to start testing and dialing in my system in June and do my first rope solo lead climb toward the end of the month. I feel an impatient urge to get out there on the rock and try stuff, but I want to be smart about it and above all NOT DIE!
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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May 16, 2018 - 08:14am PT
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The main reason I like the Revo is that it is essentially just a free wheeling pulley with not resistance as opposed to the Eddy or Grigri that has a cam action that will lock up at in opportune times. I have only used it on sport routes and moderate trad routes and appreciate the easy flow through the device. Wild Country is probably holding off on shipping more units until they get the problem of the locking mechanism fixed, not the fall locking but just the device itself. When closed with a biner through the device it opens just a bit. Some people complained about it but it doesn't effect the performance. I chose to keep mine and don't really care if it opens a bit or not, it doesn't really need a locking latch on it, the biner keeps it closed.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 16, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
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I ordered a Revo from Backcountry.com and they told me it would be 2-3 months. They are selling them for $115
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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May 16, 2018 - 03:48pm PT
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I was rope soloing the left side of Eagle Buttress at the Leap back when there were no closures. Using a Silent Partner, I had already led the second pitch and was re-climbing it after cleaning. My foot slipped off a little nub as I dyno'd for the top of that big block at the top of the second pitch. Next thing I knew I was dangling in mid air. Nice, I exclaimed, the frickin thing works! Whoohooo, That was the only time I remember falling on it.
The first day of rope soloing required many cuss words as the rope gets all screwed up. Or, you are on the crux move and forget to release your back up knot. After a bit of practice though you get really good at it.
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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1970's: Fed rope thru a basic Sticht plate, belaying myself with variable knots that required one-hand untying as each would jam at the plate; got so I could untie and re-tie if needed. Minus, there really was no belay effect in a fall until the knot jammed, because we - me, the system, and rope - were weightless, falling together. Learned to avoid falling. Worked on NW face of Half Dome.
1990: Solo-aid was marginally better, but took too much extra rope finagling to prevent slide-back, and feeding was entirely in advance, manually.
2000: Silent Partner,the biggest, heaviest, safest self-lead belay to date. It is NOT a seat belt system. It's beauty is the centrifugal catch that locks the large barrel once it spins too fast - but most of the force is caught by the rolling clove hitch, as it locks tight as soon as the barrel seizes. A bitch to loosen and move on, and a joke for rappelling the line.
The Revo looks promising, again a locking roller that does not directly apply the major loads against the locking mechanism in a catch.
However, NEVER use anything without a backup knot minimum, and a loop to the waist better. You're already going to be slow; is your life not worth an extra fifteen seconds here and there?
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benthic
Trad climber
Cambridge, MA
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I use the GriGri+ for free and aid; I've heard of two possible downsides to the GriGri:
1. Handle getting caught in a fall and releasing the device. I've switched to the GriGri+, and the anti-panic feature makes me feel a lot better.
2. Single clip-in point. I use a quicklink instead of a locker, and it feels pretty bomber. Added benefit is that the opening on my quick link is too small to remove the GriGri without first opening the plate, which makes me much less likely to drop the device when I'm loading/unloading it.
I stack my rope in a backpack with a drawstring closure and no brain, and leave the drawstring a little bit loose to allow the rope to feed more easily.
The backpack makes tying backup knots impractical, so I skip em. If the handle gets caught and the GriGri+ anti-panic feature somehow fails, I imagine the drag of the rope coming out of the backpack would be enough to lock the device.
IIRC Colin Haley uses GriGri and backpack for his alpine solos, and if it feeds fast enough for him, it's plenty fast for me.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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My 2 cents:
If the device only has one biner hole use a steel locker. Much stronger when cross loaded (that's the usual failure mode) than aluminum. (edit: quicklink idea above is probably even better since it's multi-directional)
Test your system on a single pitch with a second rope top rope with butterfly knots every ten feet or so to clip into. Try falling on your lead system, lowering, etc. Having knots to clip into instead of a mini-trax will allow your lead system to catch falls, etc., so the second rope will only be a backup.
If find the gri-gri works best if there's some rope (weight) hanging under it. If the rope goes right into a bag then there's not enough tension to lock up the gri-gri cam quickly. (edit: also a good idea above to cinch down the opening of the backpack to provide friction to lock up the gri-gri instead of having it hanging where it could get in the way or hung up)
I'd guess you'd only want a mini-trax to ascend the rope if you wanted to free climb and clean. If you wanted to jug the rope and clean use ascenders.
On another note:
I did a ropes course and one of the challenges was jumping off a platform and being caught/lowered by one of those gym auto belay things. Even though I've jumped off things thousands of times and climbed on those in the gym a few times it was spooky because I had to trust someone else's gear that I never even touched.
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Daniel Fullmer
Trad climber
VT
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I have owned and occasionally used the silent partner for over a decade now. I deliberated over the same questions and options (although fewer options then). I have led mostly long trad lines 5.8-5.10 trad and 5.10-5.11 sport using the back pack method. My high water mark with the system was doing some of the long moderates in the El Potrero canyon in a day, which was fun and exhausting but I didn't die. Initially I had tried to re ascend the line but because the climbs were not steep or difficult I found it was easier and faster to re-climb the route rather than jug the dynamic line so I quickly ditched the ascenders. I started by creating a separate top rope line then intentionally fell repeatedly while 'lead' climbing to gain comfort with the device, a practice that really helped.
Recently I have been eyeing some long routes in Zion that I think would be fun to solo with the SP so i bought the metolious rope bag/backpack and a lighter (9.8) 70M lead line for the effort. Point is I think the soloing is fun, safe as the user is smart, and benefits from practice optimizing gear choices.
Enjoy!
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BeeTee
Social climber
Valdez Alaska
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I've rope soloed a number of ice or alpine routes....love it....soloist with the rope in the pack....occasional back up knot but feels confident and that's what's it's about....just stay a little below your flash point....plus you get to admire your work by seconding on a toprope...mini taxi on or the the bigger one ...I wore out a mini before....70 meter rope....leave your bigger pack and extra line at the belay....do shorter pitches....I think it works great...way better than free soloing!
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Riska
Trad climber
CA
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I have used Soloist over span of 2 decades and it was a nightmare, felt like a was climbing with crotch getting stuck in a crack- it took me all afternoon to do Corrugation Corner 5.7 at Lovers on its retirement outing. . I upgraded to Silent Partner, which was merely a heavier nightmare. They belong in the tar pit with hexes, tricams and bongs.
My best outings were with old school knots. Can’t wait to hear if the new gadgets have promise.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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AE wrote: However, NEVER use anything without a backup knot minimum, and a loop to the waist better.
As benthic mentions below, backup knots don't really work with backpack systems and, while I use them aid soloing with an unmodded grigri, I've never used them or found them necessary in free lead rope soloing with the rope in a backpack with either a modded grigri or the Eddy.
benthic wrote: I use the GriGri+ for free...Colin Haley uses GriGri and backpack for his alpine solos, and if it feeds fast enough for him, it's plenty fast for me.
The rope runs the wrong way through the grigri for rope soloing so can't quite fathom continuing to use it after the Eddy came out let alone trying to use it for fast alpine - but it's definitely a to each his own deal and everyone needs to sort out and dial in a system that works for them.
the fet wrote: If the device only has one biner hole use a steel locker. Much stronger when cross loaded (that's the usual failure mode) than aluminum. (edit: quicklink idea above is probably even better since it's multi-directional)
Yeah, I used a CE-rated mallion rapide with the grigri, but with the Eddy's clamshell design I just back up a regular locker with a short 8mm sling on a separate small locker:
BeeTee wrote: ....plus you get to admire your work by seconding on a toprope...
Yeah, cleaning your own pro is a benefit of seconding all the pitches normally which is what I do and my placement skills evolved dramatically after the first couple of years of rope soloing constantly swearing at the as#@&%e who did the placements. So much so that I got to the point I where basically never 'set' passive pro but rather learned to rely on the geometry of the placements instead.
...70 meter rope...
A 70m won't fit in my backpack and I wouldn't want the additional weight.
...do shorter pitches...
Hmm, I do the opposite running pitches together whenever I can...
Again, for free lead rope soloing:
 '75-'92 I used knots (Bastille Crack was my first rope solo)
'92-'04 Tab-Modded grigri
'04-Pres Eddy (did a 40th-anniversary rope solo of the Bastille Crack in '15)
Easily have in a thousand or two trad multipitch pitches in by each of the three methods and generally can do multipitch routes 1/4 to a 1/3 faster rope soloing than climbing with an efficient partner.
Due to all that history and mileage, I have my system completely dialed in and am as comfortable (or more comfortable) rope soloing as I am climbing with a partner. Here are a couple of routes I rope solo fairly regularly: Wushu Roof is a single-pitch route I rope solo multiple times each spring getting back in shape waiting for our main climbing crag to open in July and did it again this past Sunday (this pic is from a go of it with a partner).
And I do this route fairly often once our main crag opens:
As I said, definitely up for evaluating the Revo, but it would have to significantly out-perform the Eddy for me to switch given I have everything so dialed in.
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perswig
climber
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They belong in the tar pit with hexes, tricams and bongs.
Hey, now! Let's not get hasty...
Dale
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jun 11, 2018 - 11:23am PT
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I call rope soloing "The State of the Too Scared To Fall"
I have done a fair amount of climbing with a Silent Partner and I can say this stuff is a pain in the ass but better than not climbing at all.
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benthic
Trad climber
Cambridge, MA
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Jun 11, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
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The rope runs the wrong way through the grigri for rope soloing so can't quite fathom continuing to use it after the Eddy came out let alone trying to use it for fast alpine - but it's definitely a to each his own deal and everyone needs to sort out and dial in a system that works for them.
I flip the GriGri around so that the fixed end feeds out the bottom and the free end feeds over my shoulder from the backpack.
I also use a skinny rope (~9mm) which feeds pretty easily but still locks up fine, at least with the GriGri+. If I have more than ~100ft of rope out without much drag, the device sometimes auto-feeds due to rope weight; but at about 150ft it starts to lock itself up and require manual tending again.
Would love to try the Eddy some time, but haven't bought one because inevitably I'd find myself without it on days my partner bails or runs out of psyche :)
As a side note, the lack of rope drag when rope soloing is really nice.... I carry mostly quickdraws, and only need to extend placements if there's a sharp roof / edge I want to avoid.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 10, 2018 - 01:25pm PT
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Looks like the new and improved Revo is shipping, Backcountry just billed my credit card for my back order.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Jul 10, 2018 - 03:42pm PT
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R/solo with selfie stick.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 10, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
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"I'm looking at rope solo free climbing, not aid climbing. Thanks for clarifying!"
Bloody 'ell, thank goodness. I was about to write a tome. Whew.
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