happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 14, 2007 - 03:29pm PT
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Interesting! I only glimpsed it, but just wanted to post a comment someone made....
"A real dirtbagger would trap animals, wear fur, quietly pass through the woods and carry a copy of Ralph Waldo Emerson’s writings. In contrast, this guy was wearing jeans and riding a bicycle down a snow-covered road. You need an air pump to fill up bicycle tires! That IMO is hardly “roughing it”.
He’s an asocial parasite, probably mentally disturbed, but obviously in good physical shape: a 2-mile run in which he outpaced the “dogs of the proletariat” shows what living alone can do for you."
Oh yeah - supposedly there is some other guy known to be living in the mountains of upstate NY who actually is wanted by the law. I can't rememebr the details at all, but I think the guy escaped from a proson or jail a while back, and though they've found some evidence of his stuff after the fact, they can't get him. I think this guy also had well-developed self-reliancy skills too.
So....any of yous guys ever think you were ever a real dirtbag, you better have had your books from Emerson! But NO air pump for bike tires, dammit! That's cheating!!!!
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LEB
climber
Glen Gardner
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Jan 14, 2007 - 07:04pm PT
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happi,
I think it was less that he was "cheating" then it was that he was making his way via stealing and burglary. Had he been living in the woods sans that element - something more akin to the "Adirondak Hermits" then the lifestyle would have more lore and appeal. This guy basically got by via stealing off the backs of others.
If he were a subsistance farmer, true hermit who was self-sufficient or else bartering and/or some such thing without the negative connotation, that would be different.
One question and one comment for anyone. Question: Is there any truth to the legend of people found living in the jungle long (years?) after WWII (GIs, I believe) who were unaware that the war was over?
Comment: for some fascinating reading look up "feral children" on google. Much of it is hype and myth but there is at least a few documented case of children living with dogs and wolves - one notable case involved two Indian girls (India) in the 1920s which was fairly well documented. There is another recent case of a small child living with a pack of dogs in one of the eastern block countries after the fall of the Soviet Union and another of a girl who was left to fend for herself (by alcoholic, neglectful parents) with the family dogs. Another child was reasonably well documented to be living on the periphery of a particular band of monkeys whose scraps provided a source of food. He was not "accepted" so much as "tolerated" and he lived off the scraps of food they wasted. Very fascinating stories.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Jan 14, 2007 - 07:10pm PT
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Lois,
Yes, some Japanese soldiers did survive for a long time. I believe the last one to come out was about ten years ago. They are considered heros upon returning to Japan. It's still possible that a few remain way back in the boonies. You could possibly Google this subject for more info.
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LEB
climber
Glen Gardner
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Jan 14, 2007 - 07:16pm PT
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Woody,
It is really fascinating and gets one to wondering about what does one really need (as the very minimum) to survive. The boy living on the periphery of the band of monkeys is believable enough because monkeys waste so much food and this particular band is (unusually) tolerant of outsiders. Chimps, by contrast, would likely have killed the child. The Japanese were in the jungle environment, as well. I wonder to what degree climate and environment factors into all of this. Obviously living in the Adirondaks has totally different challenges then a jungle setting.
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danno
Big Wall climber
hartford ct
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Jan 14, 2007 - 07:18pm PT
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You guy's are so new millenium!I recgnized him immediately as another GOOMBA,and former governor of N.Y. Mario something or other...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 14, 2007 - 07:21pm PT
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I thought Bushman lived in the White House...
So much for Thoreau.
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pda2540
climber
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Jan 15, 2007 - 09:09am PT
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"supposedly there is some other guy known to be living in the mountains of upstate NY who actually is wanted by the law. I can't rememebr the details at all, but I think the guy escaped from a proson or jail a while back, and though they've found some evidence of his stuff after the fact, they can't get him. I think this guy also had well-developed self-reliancy skills too."
That was the cop-killer Bucky Phillips. He is back in jail now where he belongs.
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Dingus Milktoast
climber
NorCal
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Jan 15, 2007 - 09:23am PT
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Thoreau was a bum who lived on handouts from neighbors.
DMT
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 15, 2007 - 10:30am PT
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Yes, but Thoreau sure talked a good talk, didn't he?
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LEB
climber
Glen Gardner
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Jan 15, 2007 - 10:36am PT
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DMT
Handouts and stealing/burglary are two different animals. Grubbing and dirtbagging is one thing. Stealing i.e. breaking in and taking is another. Of course, then there is "permanantly borrowing" things. On some level "dirtbags" are admired for the ingenuity and abilities to do without. Thieves are almost universally disliked - esp when you are the victim!
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jan 15, 2007 - 12:25pm PT
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Excuse me for my ignorance, but I do believe stealing small items for survival somehow should be considered a different crime than stealing valuables for greed.
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pimp daddy wayne
Trad climber
ice cave
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Jan 15, 2007 - 01:04pm PT
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There is a guy in my town in Vermont who lives in the woods. He rides his bike year around. You'll se him riding when there is a foot of snow on the ground. He is known as Rat Man. He had pet rats he would feed. There were thousands of them. He would feed them chips and soda. He thought they were reincarnated movie actors. The state found out how many rats there were and shut the farm down. They killed thousands of rats. I saw him yesterday cruzin down the road on his bike. What a pimp.
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LEB
climber
Glen Gardner
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Jan 15, 2007 - 03:05pm PT
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Anastasia,
You might feel differently if it was your stuff being stolen. The idea being that if you lead a lifestyle which necessitates stealing in order to survive, one might then ask why you could not find some job or means of self-support.
Is it acceptable to live a lifestyle which necessitates stealing. I would say no. Can you live a dirtbag lifestyle wherein you get by on very little - absolutely yes and much to the credit of those who do so. You cross over the line, however, when your lifestyle involves taking what belongs to others. At that point, it is reasonable for someone to suggest that you get a job (even if it is a day labor type of thing) esp if you are able bodied.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jan 15, 2007 - 03:16pm PT
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"Another child was reasonably well documented to be living on the periphery of a particular band of monkeys whose scraps provided a source of food. He was not "accepted" so much as "tolerated" and he lived off the scraps of food they wasted."
Same things happens in the Yosemite Lodge Cafeteria.
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ADK
climber
truckee
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Jan 15, 2007 - 03:36pm PT
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Cleveland (warren county sheriff) was accused of things much worse than stealing batteries. Dude should be pardoned...what a badass.
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LEB
climber
Glen Gardner
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Jan 15, 2007 - 04:08pm PT
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Happi,
Actually, I did get your point the first time you made it. I was simply offering my take on it which was that the lifestyle which involved stealing to survive was key (at least in my opinion). I actually think the jeans and bicycle could be consistant with a simple life of self-sufficiency. He has to wear something. Jeans - assuming they are not pricey designer jeans - would be as good as anything. The bicycle? One could even make an arguement here for that as well. One might say a bicycle was more close to nature then an automobile. I could live with those two elements. It's the burglary which turns me off.
I've actually made friends with several true "dirtbags" meaning individuals who were living in state or national park wooded areas on next to nothing. One lady comes to mind. She was in her 80s and living literally on a shoe string. I tried to give her some money and groceries (she did not have much to eat) and she wouldn't take it. I had to resort to tricking her into accepting it telling her that I found the money while hiking and that I had a responsibility to share it with her. Same problem with the groceries. She was skin and bones and wouldn't take them. I had to lie to her and tell her that that someone gave me the groceries on condition that I share them with others. Only then would she accept them
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SuperTopo on the Web
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trapping animals and wearing the skins for garments
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