Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 08:39am PT
|
For California the constitution protects the public's right of access.
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 10 WATER
SEC. 4. No individual, partnership, or corporation, claiming or
possessing the frontage or tidal lands of a harbor, bay, inlet,
estuary, or other navigable water in this State, shall be permitted
to exclude the right of way to such water whenever it is required for
any public purpose, nor to destroy or obstruct the free navigation
of such water; and the Legislature shall enact such laws as will give
the most liberal construction to this provision, so that access to
the navigable waters of this State shall be always attainable for the
people thereof.
https://law.justia.com/constitution/california/article_10.html
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 08:43am PT
|
Stringing barbed wire across rivers should be a felony IMO. That's a lethal mantrap. That's just insane.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 08:50am PT
|
Sometimes a burning ranch house is a good thing.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 09:45am PT
|
Well, the good citizens of New Mexico have made a determination, on the basis of who they have elected to serve them, how the historic waters of the State will be eliminated from access by the citizenry.
They have the ability to vote, and they have chosen.
It certainly is a discrete business model to consider that the waters are a economic resource, and that the average citizen should have to pay to access those state-owned waters. A money maker. And certainly the republican viewpoint that public lands should be maximized as money generators, fits this model well.
|
|
Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 09:52am PT
|
It's happening all over MT. I'm sure Zinke can help sort things out.
One of the crappier 'artists' all time, Huey Lewis made the news when he fenced off a slough/channel used by generations on Montanans. He has involved himself in plenty of mischief and his $$ will always keep him in the 'right'.
|
|
hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 09:52am PT
|
my ex's old man, when i asked him what his most significant effect had been
during his twelve years on the montana supremes, pointed to the stream access case
for which he wrote the majority decision iirc:
https://www.bigskyfishing.com/misc/montana-stream-access-law/
he wrote prolifically, mostly for the minority, and did so with flair!
his retirement party was an amazing event. one of his clerks read aloud at the podium,
unfurling a monster stack of fan folded print out onto the stage floor in front of him as he rifled
from one bookmarked gem to the next. i thought it was the work of mark twain.
then the honoree declined the mic
and in the most sonorous command of the spoken word i've ever witnessed
evoked tears of both laughter and pain, then back and forth all over again until
i came to severely regret never having seen him during his trial lawyer days.
rest in peace hon. john "skeff" sheehy
|
|
Keith Reed
climber
Johnson county TX
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 16, 2018 - 10:06am PT
|
These people won’t give up until they take it all.
And Huey Lewis can eff himself.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 10:13am PT
|
So how many of you would like it if yer neighbor climbed over yer fence to walk through yer
back yard to visit the neighbor on the other side?
Now not many properties probably have navigable waters flowing through them, especially
in New Mexico, so I would make an exception for that. We had a major river that flowed
through our farm in upstate Wisconsin. Never occurred to us to do other than wave at
anybody floating by. But then we weren’t misanthropes or meth lab owners.
|
|
Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 10:14am PT
|
Thanks for the link Hoobs. Cool story and is even up there with your pics O'Volco rocks.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 10:22am PT
|
So how many of you would like it if yer neighbor climbed over yer fence to walk through yer
back yard to visit the neighbor on the other side?
depends on if I knew the neighbor had been doing that before I bought the land and that the way which the neighbor used was a protected access. Since we have had protected access to waterways for many generations..well... then I screwed up if I thought that I should be able to bar access to a waterway. Same with beaches.. Personally I think that we should take back more of our beaches. If a road goes through a persons property and its a public road, most people realize that they can;t close the road.
If you want to live on a waterway, or a beach, then you have to accept that people will use it.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 10:30am PT
|
The law on easements is quite clear as far as I understand it but I doubt that a ‘use easement’
would hold up. In Britain the ‘right to walk’ is ancient and accepted, but then Brits are generally
much more polite and considerate than Yanks.
|
|
clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 11:42am PT
|
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 10 WATER
SEC. 4. No individual, partnership, or corporation, claiming or
possessing the frontage or tidal lands of a harbor, bay, inlet,
estuary, or other navigable water in this State, shall be permitted
to exclude the right of way to such water whenever it is required for
any public purpose, nor to destroy or obstruct the free navigation
of such water; and the Legislature shall enact such laws as will give
the most liberal construction to this provision, so that access to
the navigable waters of this State shall be always attainable for the
people thereof.
https://law.justia.com/constitution/california/article_10.html
The first few lines above guarantee access ("right of way") over anyone's property that fronts navigable water. But just because it's in the constitution doesn't mean the bastards will follow the law. If they are not ok with providing access then they should not own land bordering navigable waters.
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 11:50am PT
|
And certainly the republican viewpoint that public lands should be maximized as money generators, fits this model well.
Heretic!
A true republican believes that there should not be any public lands...
|
|
stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
|
Yeah, this has been an ongoing battle in UT. Fishers, rafters, etc wanting to preserve access in the water and various landowners wanting to block it. I think we're currently in the "pro-access" situation, but with the current administration's priorities, it wouldn't surprise me if that changed.
Related to this is Vinod Kholsa, the billionaire that blocked access to Martins Beach down by Half Moon Bay. He is currently defeated in that effort, but apparently is going to appeal to the Supreme Court, and if he's successful there, it will be a big blow to land/water access rights.
|
|
Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 12:23pm PT
|
So how many of you would like it if yer neighbor climbed over yer fence to walk through yer back yard to visit the neighbor on the other side?
I'm surprised that your know-it-all-ness doesn't see the apples to oranges comparison you are trying to make/justify.
|
|
clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
|
All sorts of laws regulate land ownership. The mineral rights may be owned by someone else, who can come in strip mine the place. There can be easements for power lines, sewer, gas, etc. which all require access for maintenance. Zoning laws spell out what an owner can do. Access roads to other property may exist.
The right of public access thru a property to publicly owned waterways is just another of many laws governing just what a property owner is obligated to.
Myself I think all the land along waterways, rivers, lakes, and ocean, should be publicly owned parks. Problem solved - no private land owners to block access, or to destroy the riparian zone (of huge importance to wildlife and wild plants), or to get flooded out and then go crying for disaster relief.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
|
A true republican believes that there should not be any public lands...
Actually that is the position taken by the Libertarian think tank Cato Institute. I agree with a lot of what comes out of that place, but obviously this conclusion is a 100% deal breaker for me.
Republicans aren't nearly as hard core on this issue.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2018 - 03:05pm PT
|
Malemute, you need to get around more.
The problem is simple; 2 many people.
Lotta hate here for successful people, but then James Brolin flipped me off when we buzzed his place in my bud's light plane.
just 2 many people,..
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!