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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Mar 14, 2018 - 09:51am PT
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Huge ache. Like many above, checking in daily for a ray of sunshine.
The older I get the bigger the sucker punch to the gut. I guess it’s because I’m so old and have lived so much and I know what they and their family will miss out on.
I really don’t know anymore about the “cost/benefit” equation. I just don’t know.
Susan
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 14, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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It is always more painful when a person has a spouse and a small child at home who will have to grow up without a Father. No having been in that position, I cannot judge; I had a friend who told me when she became a parent, her climbing, mountaineering, adventure perspective changed, and she would not take the risks she formerly took. Each one has to find his own way. I am not a mountaineer, only climbed a little in summers, but seems to me that doing a route like that in a place where the snow comes down heavily in winter is a high risk venture.
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JLyons
Sport climber
Cali
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Mar 14, 2018 - 10:39am PT
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I don’t know where to go with this. I wouldn’t trade a single hand of Uno with my boy for 10 seconds on any peak.
F*#k Alpinism. Don’t go.
Another very sad bit of news - this sport is so beautiful and so tragic in ways. My activities are small-time compared to all of this, but I know when kids came along I REALLY had to be honest with my own willingness to risk their future with both parents living. I understand the draw of the mountains, so no judgment from me in any way. It's such a complicated decision that we all have to make for ourselves, but I know I'm making the right one for my family.
RIP gents, the pictures are killing me, especially with his son.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 14, 2018 - 10:53am PT
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Such a sad thing, for these guy's families and friends. I am sorry for your loss and the painfulness in your mourning.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 14, 2018 - 10:55am PT
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I've posted this before, but I believe it is worth reposting here...
I don't know if this will help you sort out your feelings, but for whatever it is worth, here are some thoughts from a climber who was a son of parents who would have been devastated to lose him, and also a father of a son who has grown into a man who also climbs.
Should I have launched into whitewater as a teenager, and then begun climbing when I moved to where there were rocks and mountains? Or was that a burden I should never have placed on my parents? Should my wife and I have continued climbing when our children were born? Should we have introduced our boys to the outdoors? To climbing? Should I now fear that any phone call might be the one that informs me of my son's death?
Like most of the long-time climbers here on ST, I have had more friends than I want to think about go into the mountains and not come home. Should they not have gone to the mountains?
Finding the answer to all these questions requires me to ask another: What is the alternative?
For me, and for many climbers I know, climbing was far more a way to survive than a way to die. If I hadn't gone paddling, and then climbing, I'd have been dead or in jail long ago. And I can't begin to count the number of friends who have said the same thing.
Some of us simply didn't fit in to the space we were allotted in the Betty Crocker world we were born into. Those of us who found a home in the climbing community were the lucky ones. Yes, some of us died in avalanches, rockfalls, rappelling accidents, whatever... But most of us survived, and when we look at our brothers and sisters who didn't find what we did, the ones who turned to alcohol, drugs, and crime... Well, the answer seems clear to me.
The best way I can sum it all up is to think back to when my children were very young, and remember that yes, when I went climbing for a day, a week, or a month, I took the chance that I would not come home, and they would grow up without a father...
...but to me, that seemed a far, far better outcome for them than to watch their father drink himself to death.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Mar 14, 2018 - 11:24am PT
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Deepest condolences to all.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Mar 14, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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I wouldn’t trade a single hand of Uno with my boy for 10 seconds on any peak. I would take 10 seconds on a peak with family over Uno any day, risk of death included.
These risks don't have to be so polarized.
I don't know what happened here, but young climbers living the life described in that Gripped article generally don't make it to 30.
Better to die a tiger than live like a pussy, or something like that.
In any case, it was his choice, and his life, while short, seemed a happy one. His family seemed to support him as well, their choice too.
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AlaskaTim
Mountain climber
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Mar 14, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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Recall when John Millar and Guy Edwards disappeared on the north face of the Devils Thumb, 2003? How many more names can be added to this list...Copp,Dash, Lowe, Dempster, ... the list goes on and on and the names are slowly forgotten. But, there are tragedies left behind: children and partners and parents. Sure, if you are alone and without a family, go ahead and take the risks. However, with kids at home and a partner, is this a good idea? Its an addiction. A selfish delusion.
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Mar 14, 2018 - 11:42am PT
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I'm so very sorry. For them, but mostly for their families and friends. Their grief will never end, although in time the load will become easier to bear. The question, "is it worth it?" is such a difficult, impossible question....like an Escher drawing, with no beginning, and no end. As the widow of a prolific climber, and a climber myself, believe me, I have spent a great deal of time on this question since Jack's death. Climbing gave me/has given me much of what is dear, memorable, and vital in my life. Would I want to change that? Never. But it has also taken away what was most important to me, what gave my heart and soul real meaning....love. Would I want to change that? Just about every minute of every day. In the end, all we can do is live our lives as we see fit. Try to do right by our loved ones, while feeding our hearts. For now, even though I didn't know either of them personally, my heart is heavy with their loss. My love goes out to their families and friends........I hope they can find their way.
Pam
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 14, 2018 - 11:45am PT
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Condolences. I really hoped this one would turn out, such special people. Huge bummer.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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veewoo23
Trad climber
AK
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Mar 14, 2018 - 11:54am PT
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Updated story from the Anchorage Daily News:
https://www.adn.com/outdoors-adventure/2018/03/14/renowned-alpinists-presumed-dead-after-their-ropes-found-above-juneau-icefield/
Bad weather complicated search efforts for days, but members of Juneau Mountain Rescue on Tuesday were finally able to get a good look at the north face of the Towers from a chartered Coastal helicopter.
They glimpsed an anchor rope at the top of an ice chute on the fourth tower and two climbing ropes in a crevasse midway down the tower, according to troopers spokeswoman Megan Peters. The ropes match the description of Johnson and Leclerc's gear.
"Everything tells us they are down in that crevasse and they are presumed deceased," Peters said.
It's not clear whether Johnson and Leclerc fell into the crevasse or an avalanche carried them into it, she said. "We do know they ascended, took pictures at the top. … We know they hiked a ridge over to the ice chute near the fourth tower."
Also:
https://www.ktoo.org/2018/03/14/mendenhall-towers-climbers-presumed-deceased-search-ends/
“They were able to see some climbing ropes that matched the description of what the climbers used,” Peters said.
Peters said they don’t plan on a recovery operation because of the avalanche danger and other safety hazards.
Peters said searchers were able to home in on the pair’s location after a getting a signal back from a RECCO reflector. Different from avalanche beacons, RECCO reflectors are sometimes built inside helmets, boots or outdoor clothing and can reflect a signal that is transmitted by searchers — even when covered by snow.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Mar 14, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
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Those of us who found a home in the climbing community were the lucky ones.
I agree. It's an old saw now, but still true: "Every man dies; not every man really lives."
You live a life of "risk avoidance," and then you die of cancer or a car wreck. Or some madman shoots up a crowd, you included, in Las Vegas. There IS no "risk avoidance." Even living within the confines of your bed just shortens your life, while not giving you much quality of it! The supposed "odds game" is a chimera.
LIVE... and then you die. But at least: LIVE.
It's always profoundly painful to lose a loved one! I hope that the friends and families can be comforted by imagining the feelings these climbers felt on the tops of big mountains and then hearing the stories they shared when back at home.
There's no "clock" that is "supposed" to tick down in predictable fashion for any of us. There is no such thing as "cut short." There is only LIVING to the best of one's ability. And it's quite apparent from this thread that these gentlemen did that!
I honor them.
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Mar 14, 2018 - 12:21pm PT
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I think Bruce Lee said something like "I'd rather die a broken piece of jade than live a life of clay". Truly these men lived a life of jade, until it broke. Condolences to all.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Mar 14, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
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Sending love to the grieving from the desert.
Everyone’s life story is different.
Some shine long,
some burn hot and fast.
And another thing-
Many of us grow up without fathers, for a multitude of reasons-
Alcoholism, divorce, etc. We live, often with pain but also with lessons.
These men died for what gave them life, and their children will know this,
as sad, tragic, and difficult as it may be.
Again, so sorry for families, friends, and the community.
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AlaskaTim
Mountain climber
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Mar 14, 2018 - 01:09pm PT
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All that cliche about "Live" and all that conjecture about dying of cancer while living a presumably "boring" life. Well, after you have kids, it is not your life to live anymore the way you want to...you give yourself up and live for your kids. Now there is a 2.5 year old little boy that will have no memory of his father and a mother left to raise that boy alone because the father died in a ice crack on some mountain far from being at home with his family. There is no glory, no legend, no dreamer or visionary. There is only a fatherless child and widow.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Mar 14, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
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When Marc-Andre was 16 he came to help move myself and my wife into our first house when we moved in together.
We bought beer and pizza for our friends that helped us move and Marc-Andre asked my wife "Can I have a beer too?" and she said yes and he blushed because he wasn't legally old enough to drink yet.
I was privileged enough to share first ascents, bouldering days, shiver bivies, laughs and texts with Marc-Andre. He was a good guy. He was honest. He was stoked. He was the only climber I've ever met whose ability to climb lived up to his dreams of what he wanted to climb.
I had to stop writing this four times while crying.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 14, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
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I always hate the debates that come up in these types of threads. While for sure, the debates have merit, they can also be like tiny shards of glass, cutting and cutting and cutting, the vulnerable skin of those in mourning.
I'd rather be a part of the circle of support for those in grief at this time, rather than standing on the sidelines debating details which the loved ones can't help but be forced to overhear.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 14, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
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I think Bruce Lee said something like "I'd rather die a broken piece of jade than live a life of clay". Truly these men lived a life of jade, until it broke. Condolences to all.
And let's not forget these guys weren't being reckless, flying squirrel suits at 140mph through holes in rock features.... they simply ran out of time.
And our lives are all the more dull because of their absence.
Condolences....
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Mar 14, 2018 - 01:24pm PT
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All that cliche about "Live" and all that conjecture about dying of cancer while living a presumably "boring" life. Well, after you have kids, it is not your life to live anymore the way you want to...you give yourself up and live for your kids. Now there is a 2.5 year old little boy that will have no memory of his father and a mother left to raise that boy alone because the father died in a ice crack on some mountain far from being at home with his family. There is no glory, no legend, no dreamer or visionary. There is only a fatherless child and widow.
My sentiments exactly. And for those who say such things shouldn’t be said, if just one climbing parent makes a decision that spares their son or daughter a similar fate, it’s worth every bit of anguish such comments might provoke.
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