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Messages 1 - 52 of total 52 in this topic |
skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Thats interesting. I'm gonna ask a couple dumb questions, which is my greatest strength. Do you then share foot space? Then does the taller be on the outside? I'm taller. Or does the shape (Line AB against the wall. Line BC Diagonal, Line CA. And Line AB is same as BC) just make it same either way if that makes sense?
Cool!
Thanks
S...
edit: I just did a drawing and so the length is the same you just share a common foot area nearest the wall?
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
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People initially think it is too small, but after actually sleeping in it find it fine and appreciate the increased stability. Easy to stretch out comfortably without the fly. With the fly, a bit of coziness with two, but still not too bad. No problem with one. The small packed size is key (25").
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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I get what you are doing. Light and stable is nice. Coziness is fine too.
Thanks!
S...
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2018 - 10:08pm PT
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Yes, for extended big walls, the full size D4 portaledge is the way to go. But this new tool offers packability and full storm survival for two. Ideal as a single multipurpose ledge, too. Wish I had one when I was in wild adventure mode back in the day!
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Matt's
climber
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Deuce-- you're creativity is inspiring.
Would love it if you designed a two person Alpine tent in the 3 lb range!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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light weight hunter stand?
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John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
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what a great idea. Love the size.
I couldn't find what the measurement were between corners when you are sleeping?
Thanks
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Late Starter
Social climber
NA
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Interesting...looks like a race to the market between this and the new Runout Customs design.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
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Regarding triangular designs, triangles have about 15% less area for a given perimeter of tubing compared to a regular double size ledge. The pure triangle structural truss concept is appealing, but unfortunately doesn't offer any advantage in terms of usable space compared to the same size and weight rectangular design, in my opinion, based on building and testing several folding triangular prototypes.
The trapezoid shape is the way forward for ultralight big wall shelters. I have been thinking of trapezoid frames for some time, and this latest delve into design has led to the discovery of quite a few cool new concepts while building a series of prototypes to optimize the ergonomics, foldability, and ease of setup.
Very excited about the usability of the D4 Trapezium--I believe it is my best work yet in terms of how foldable shelters can be used to push new boundaries on extreme climbs (as well as being a great kids cubbie!).
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Take my money.
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Late Starter
Social climber
NA
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I'd agree with everything you've stated John, the question for me will be at what price point vs. Luke's ledge will I be wiling to pay for that addn'l. useable space.
Looks like the perfect set-up for me, just a matter of $ (like anything).
Thanks for the innovation/"outside the box thinking"!!
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John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
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Can you share what Luke's design is like? I didn't see anything on his website. Thanks.
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Kauait
Big Wall climber
salt lake city
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How about a system that allows you to flag your ledge up and not get destroyed on non overhanging areas?!
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
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Thanks for all the good words!
First batch getting sold out, a few left, sign up at bigwallgear.com.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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Price announced. (below, email sent to first 25 who signed up)
Firstly, Thanks!
I am sending this email to the first 25 people who signed up for the D4 Trapezium.
I am getting more materials this month, and should be able to make the first five production models before May (I will be in the USA May/June). The rest will be made this fall starting in July. I expect to be able to build at least 50 this year, so no worries on getting one by the end of the year, as you have signed up early!
I appreciate your vision, and really believe this new "1.5" ledge will find its way in your adventures with which you never thought about bringing a portaledge. It is a super cool tool and look forward to making one for for each of you.
The price for early adopters will be $590 for the ledge and haulsack, and the fly will be $325. Retail on these will be $625 and $350 respectively. Shipping from Australia to USA should be about $75 or so.
Can you confirm your interest and if you are able to put down a 50% deposit right away. Please also specify if you want the ledge only, or ledge with fly.
I am asking for a deposit in order to make a larger order for some of the parts. One thing you might have noticed watching the video is that the frame really sets up easily. The D4 Trapezium is the first ledge with my new patent pending joint system, which is a major innovation in portaledge technology, and which will also be part of my full size D4 portaledge. This new joiner system makes the ledge assemble like butter, and is a big improvement over the existing sleeved tube design prevalent on all other ledges. Though the new CNC joiners add significant cost to the frame, I feel it is worth it in terms of strength and ease of setup.
Thanks again
___
John Middendorf
Big Wall Gear, LLC
http://bigwallgear.com
http://johnmiddendorf.net
EMAIL: deuce4@mac.com
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
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Trapezium in sculpture garden:
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
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getting the impression that talking about new big wall gear isn't really a thing right now....
crickets.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Mar 27, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
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I’m still wrapping my head around how you actually sleep in it?
Maybe a good pic of someone laid out in bivy mode would help. All the videos showed being crunched up at best, leaving me skeptical.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Mar 27, 2018 - 09:24pm PT
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What are the dimensions of the Trapezium? As John Mac asked, what's the longest length corner to corner?
I can find the total area and packed down length, but the deployed size isn't clear.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2018 - 09:26pm PT
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Pretty cozy, actually. Better than the typical undersized ice cave.
Kinda more like a mini trampoline as opposed to a narrow yoga mat.
Has to be experienced, I suppose.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2018 - 09:29pm PT
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About 66” long on the wall side, 48” wide.
Dims might change plus or minus a few inches on upcoming production batch, but keeping the max tube length to 23” daypack small.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
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Make no bones. This is not a full size ledge. It is what Rob Miller and I call, a "1.5 ledge".
With fly, it is like a little portable cave that two people could be fully protected in fierce storms and get decent alpine sleep. Without fly is is a super comfortable hang out ledge, as good as a full size because no wasted space, but much better because its significantly more stable--rock solid compared to a long full length ledge. People are BASE jumping off it because it is so stable. Not really a bad one-person bivy, either. Certainly better than your stony options on Camp 5 of the Nose shared with three other people.
Did I mention it fits in a daypack?
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Mar 28, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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Very cool idea and great implementation of an idea. I see it kind of as a " bomb shelter when you're getting pissed on" and a "Nice flat spot to rest on" when the weather is nice on a wall. My Cliff Cabana is sitting gathering dust as we speak. The thing is so heavy I hate moving it from one side of the garage to the other.
Really enjoyed your episode on The Enormocast by the way.
Scott
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
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Thanks Scott!
New hat design: "Make Portaledges Portable Again"
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 28, 2018 - 03:37pm PT
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For solo big walls in winter on Baffin Island....yikes! Does it come with a holy water font?
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
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yes, Marek Raganowicz is soloing with one right now in Baffin. Really looking forward to see how he likes it. True test of the ultra lightweight vertical bivy shelter...
you probably need one too, Jim...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 28, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
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You can put me up in one when I come to visit...they look comfy!
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 08:23pm PT
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I will make you one for your next climb of Torre Egger. Then you can take your time up there... :)
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2018 - 12:55am PT
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First production batch shipping this week.
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duncan
climber
London, UK
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Apr 14, 2018 - 03:40am PT
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John, this is really cool.
It might be obvious but your biggest market could be folk trying the crowded Alpine walls like The Nose, who want insurance against not making it to the next natural bivi or finding all the good spots occupied.
You really don’t want to haul a BD monstrosity on these routes yet many now do.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2018 - 02:11pm PT
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Hi Duncan
Yes, I agree, it is the ultimate lightweight weather insurance policy for the Nose.
Two people could escape any storm, anywhere, in relative comfort.
Plus it would be a decent extra bivy when the team gets to the crowded ledge camps.
Personally, I would take it on the Nose to camp on the belay after the Great Roof—probably one of the most spectacular portaledge spots on El Cap—whenever I guided the Nose back in the day, I would bring a portaledge and camp there just for the spectacularness of it all.
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duncan
climber
London, UK
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Apr 17, 2018 - 04:18am PT
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Thinking about this some more, it would also work really well for a two person team on many of the moderate El Cap. walls too: Zodiac, NA, Aquarian, Lurking Fear, and probably others, have decent one-person ledges. If you're happy with one cozy night together you could include The Shield.
You still have the option of both of you using the Trapezium you are slow, or the weather unexpectedly deteriorates.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
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^exactly right, Duncan. This is a tool I wish I had when I was in my prime...
Just got word from Marek, who has been soloing new routes in Baffin with it the past couple months. He says the Trapezium is “super cool”, but hasn’t been able to send more feedback yet because his satellite reception is poor.
Production batch shipping out this week from the Tasmanian D4 headquarters!
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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Lots of interest from all over the world for all sorts of adventures...
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Apr 24, 2018 - 02:33pm PT
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John,
What final dimensions did you end up with? How about a decent pic of a real sized human sleeping in one? Kids are cute and all, but some of us haven't been that size in several decades...
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
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I've posted this one several times before--shows the size.
I've slept in it a bunch of nights now in the Tarkine Rainforest. When it's not raining, I just poke my legs out the side and can fully stretch out--the bar is on the lower part of the thigh, and not really that bothersome to have the feet hanging out in space. To be fully under cover, though, you gotta get snugly.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Apr 25, 2018 - 10:48am PT
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Got it. Only packed dimensions available. I'm keeping my money.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
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Moof, have posted a few dimensions before. It is just that it is hard to measure precisely with curved corners, and also I have still been tweaking the final design +- few inches with each batch.
Right now they are about 66” wide at wall side, and 46.5” wide. About 35” at airside.
About 2400 sq. Inches of space.
My original vision and introduction of this concept of a 1.5 ledge was about offering survival and adequate rest for two people in a minimalistic way. But found that it is so stable, easy to set up, and fine to sleep in, the small packed size makes it fun to take on all sorts of adventures as a personal bivy system as well.
Once people try it, they immediately see what it’s about, and how it can be used. Reminds me a bit of when I invented the concept of the ball and grooved wedge, which later became the ball nut. Even though I had discussed the idea and shared drawings, it only became “visible” to others once I had made a prototype (then it promptly got copied). It won’t necessarily be a tool for everyone, but will make a difference for some.
My interest is mostly to offer this concept to those who see the opportunities this new tool presents, and to help foster new possibilities of human endeavor in the vertical.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2018 - 11:03am PT
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huh?
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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All you big guys just pissed that we skinny small guys are getting the benefits of the new toy.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
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What’s a guy gotta do to keep a thread alive by starting a slamfest?
Just kidding.
Gotta get out more...
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2018 - 04:31am PT
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From Brandon Adams:
“Slept 2 guys over 6 foot tall
Super light hauling. Felt almost like a push bag but we were camping. Super fun.”
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