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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Feb 13, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Feb 14, 2018 - 08:43am PT
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Ojai Alex,
I do not remember the name of the climb, but as I recall it had maybe 4 bolts and was a little to the left of the central area that was being climbed in those days. It was put up by the late Rick Moser. There is a faint chance I could identify it if I had a guidebook. It was in the early/mid 1970's.
All the best,
Michael
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Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
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Feb 14, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
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it looks like a half hitch (overhand) on a bight. Better than girth hitch because once cinched up, it doesnt loosen like a girth might. And girth hitches put mechanical strain on the webbing in a 2:1 fasion as they bite into themselves when loading. The overhand is almost as strong as a figure eight and can be adjusted to snug fit easily. Chainsaw, thanks. I think you are right. Upon close examination, the knot does look like an overhand on a bight. I'm aware that girth tends to loosen when not weighed down, so I like a knot that can cinch down for that use (as shown in the photo). I'm not too concerned about strength as I've yet to hear about such a failure. However, based on my experience, you need to have nimble fingers to tie an overhand knot with a small nylon loop and still be able to cinch it down satisfyingly. Removing the three slings and untying the knots can be difficult too.
I think clove hitch might be the best knot to use come to think of it.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Feb 14, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
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Oh, God, Alexey, not Supertopo. All my Supertopo friends who have become partners are wonderful. This was someone from rockclimbing.com. Does that even exist anymore?
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 14, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
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I once set up a belay on El Cap with one fixed horizontal pin that was driven straight up under a roof.
I asked partner if he was willing to die on this belay.
He shrugged and clipped in with the haul bag.
We both stared at this one pin anchor we were hanging on.
My partner then proceeded to do a giant pendulum off our one pin behaving badly anchor.
We made it and didn't die ........
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2018 - 01:20pm PT
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Sometimes pins driven straight up can be surprisingly good.
I got caught by a 1/2" angle driven up halfway only. Thirty foot, fall factor 1.5 !!!!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 15, 2018 - 04:39pm PT
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1986 Zion. No idea what climb but something you could see from the road... P1 was fingers and Hard. Belay was a tat death triangle with both drilled angles completely loose in their holes. We did a 2nd pitch because we wanted a better anchor. Charlie made belay in a wide crack with my#10 hex and a rusty button head with rusty home made hanger... We did not want to rap from the single buttonhead in sandstone so Charlie tried to get us to the top though I have no idea how we would have found t the walk off if we had made it. Naturally it got wide and Carlie walked our single #3.5 Friend up the crack until he got too scared so he sent a loop down for my hex. I sent that up and he kept going back cleaning, running out of gas and eventually aiding on the two pieces. I have my knee jammed in the crack stareing at the single rusty 1/4incher, Charlie is 70 or so feet above me with zero gear in between us thrashing away looking like he is going to Air mail at any second..... Finally the friend and hex max out and start slideing backwards.... Charlie bails on My hex, we then rap from the button head, and the loose drilled angles.....
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Mike Honcho
Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
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Feb 15, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
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uuuhhh, sorry, but dangerous johnny threw me off for a second....
..well put TV, keep this thread rolling folks, chime in with your "bad-belay" stories, I'll share one of mine here soon, gotta run for now..
I thought that was hilarious for someone who only has ONE post ever on Supertopo, then I was like, dude, you came back and call yourself Mike Honcho now dumbass!
OK, so, I was in Eldo in my Sophomore year of High school. I was casually, yet attentively belaying a partner and it occurred to me that the two parties next to me both had a partner named Scott..
In the same 10 seconds, a person named Scott was leading and a person named Scott was belaying and about the same time one yelled "OFF BELAY SCOTT" and the other yelled "BELAY OFF SCOTT" and neither off these two parties were related. So I drolly looked over and was shocked to see a climber from both parties taking the other "OFF BELAY/BELAY OFF"!!!!
Trying to explain and unf*#k these 2 parties and not scare the crap out of them was truly a memorable moment of all time for me. Really 1st rate communication on my part, which is hilarious..
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Feb 15, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
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I once set up a belay on El Cap with one fixed horizontal pin that was driven straight up under a roof. YIKES
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 15, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
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If it was horizontal how was it driven straight up? Is that like new math?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 15, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
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hey there say, mike... :O
as to this quote... i ACTUALLY have wondered if stuff like this
has ever happened... :O
your quote:
OK, so, I was in Eldo in my Sophomore year of High school. I was casually, yet attentively belaying a partner and it occurred to me that the two parties next to me both had a partner named Scott..
In the same 10 seconds, a person named Scott was leading and a person named Scott was belaying and about the same time one yelled "OFF BELAY SCOTT" and the other yelled "BELAY OFF SCOTT" and neither off these two parties were related. So I drolly looked over and was shocked to see a climber from both parties taking the other "OFF BELAY/BELAY OFF"!!!!
NOW, i know, :O
whewww... glad it ended well, and most likely they all learned something, :O
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Feb 15, 2018 - 10:03pm PT
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Worst belay I know of is the 6th pitch of "forbidden fruit" in NC. Topo says to "assume a firm stance"
Right on.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
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tradesman, horror for sure, but who gave the bad belay. (That said I wouldn't mind seeing that photo of Dale and the 5 rurp belay)
Mike Honcho, dangerous Danny is known to me, and has decades of experience, including numerous FAs with big name climbers. He was likely occupied, but doubtless has great stories.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Feb 16, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
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I seem to recall trying to link pitches at end of Crest Jewel and running out of rope. Instead of a brief bit of simul'ing (which we actually did a lot of on Royal Arches during the approach), I wedged my knee or thigh in a crack and that was my anchor. I like to think slab falls wouldn't generate that much force... sort of like the magical thinking of a mom sticking out her harm to hold back a kid with no seatbelt in a car crash.
Obviously didn't die from that, but screwed up the on-sight of north dome gully. Spent the night back-to-back with teeth chattering somewhere in the manzanita east of the proper descent. In the morning woke up to sound of a jet flyover, but it was actually a big rockfall from high on Half Dome. Filled the valley over to Glacier Apron area with a cloud of dust.
Another time, on an FA near Via Aqua and Aquamist, I reached a mossy wet dark alcove, and couldn't find a single bomber placement. I ended up equalizing a few crappy cams any one of which would pull, but at least half the belay was my chest squeezed in the alcove. When I exhaled, I slid down a little bit. Got pretty slimed on that one.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 16, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
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Toker. I felt the belay with me jamming my knee in the crack and a single aincent button head was pretty usless considering Charlie had led the entire pitch with just the hex and friend pushing them up with him. when he started aiding about 60ft above me and both pieces were maxing out I had us both written off... that's a bad belay in my book....
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Risk
Mountain climber
Formerly TMJesse
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Feb 16, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
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When I was about 13 or 14 years old (1970 - 1971), we set out to conquer Sunnyside Bench. Goldline, bongs, angles, and all. We successfully went up several pitches not knowing where we were, and finally decided to retreat. We randomly rappelled down to some ledge held up with dried selaginella moss and crumbling decomposed granite lacking any features to set up an anchor at all, and we didn't have a bolt kit. Stupidly, we retrieved our rope, or ropes, and found ourselves marooned on a featureless ledge about 150' off of the valley floor. But, there was a nice oak about 18 feet over, with full, unprotected exposure to get to it. After much contemplation (fear of embarrassment, and after at least an hour), we decided to go for the anchor-less belay traverse from the ledge to the tree. Needless to say, it worked out. I remember doing an unanchored hip belay as my partner made the perilous traverse, knowing that if he fell, I would either follow him or let go. It was flat-out stupid and taught me a lesson. Regretfully, I've found myself in similar circumstances in life; fortunately, all such occurrences have so far turned out similarly.
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Mike Honcho
Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
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Feb 16, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
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Mike Honcho, dangerous Danny is known to me, and has decades of experience, including numerous FAs with big name climbers. He was likely occupied, but doubtless has great stories.
Yeah Ron.. that guy has 1 post on the Taco, that was all I was saying. Glad he's in your "click". Wasn't really what I was trying to convey, but fine............
Hankster
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The internet is a never ending??? Thing..
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Feb 17, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
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A fairly recent sample of the genre:
I was taking out a relatively young climber--about 18. He'd been gym climbing, and we'd done some top-roping the year before this event. My plan was to take him up Cathedral Peak. We climbed at Clark Canyon, working on technique and signals--leading, belaying, lowering. He seemed like a fairly bright kid, and he'd hiked the whole John Muir Trail when he was in his early teens--pretty badass. Oh, but were his brightness not so dim. We get to the base really early--first ones. Nice. I lead the first pitch and bring him up. No problem. I start up the second pitch and get about 30 feet up and realize I've left a piece I want on the ledge, so I tell my protege that I'm going to down climb. "Just take in the slack as I come down," I say. Easy ground, no problems. I get down about 20 feet and look down to my belayer. He's standing there, arms limp at his sides, hands empty, staring at me like a dumb cow, the rope starting to pile up on the ledge. I was not going to fall, but holy sh*t! How does he not understand the basics of how all this works? Brake hand, belay, don't let go, life. We'd gone over it. I yell: "What the f*ck are you doing?" He stares dumbly back: "But you're right there." I read him the riot act, grab the gear, and head back up. Later, I have show him how to tie a loop in the rope and clip in the pack to work through the chimney section. Here's the clincher: HE'S AN 'EFFING EAGLE SCOUT!
We got to the top safely, and I was damn glad to get off in one piece. He actually did a pretty good job with the scrambling to get off. I'm good friends with his mom, so I was feeling ultra-careful. The kid went on to work full time for the Church of Scientology, which may tell you something. Ugh.
BAd
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Feb 17, 2018 - 05:14pm PT
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+100 Tad. I read a GREAT book about that whole slag heap: Going Clear by Lawrence Wright. Friggin' fantastic. Not much about bad belays, however.
BAd
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
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Pretty harsh Hank, you and DD have likely shared a rope with some common partners.
You weren't in such great shape the last time I saw you, hope you're doing better.
I started this thread, not so much for stories of poor anchors, but rather poor judgement that affects others. That said, when a partner yells, "on belay" when the anchor is schit without warning his partner, then that applies.
Belay skills vary, but when it falls below a certain threshold,.....
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