Consciousness and Levels of Awareness

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Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Feb 13, 2018 - 05:29pm PT
These are the times that leave me trusting in transcendence. Peace be with him and you.
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 13, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
Atom this eve?

A single strontium atom with what level of consciousness?



https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--EFNrnAww--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/hyejinr2kjmfu74vfqrz.png

It can be read about here:

https://www.techly.com.au/2018/02/13/stunning-photo-single-atom-wins-prestigious-science-photography-contest/

Just as there are 50 some words for snow among Eskimos (how do they talk about that to a guy who lives in the desert?), how many words are there for atom among physicists?





Meanwhile back at the lab.

While reports of EEG correlates of psychiatric disorders date back five decades, clinical sensitivity of the EEG to psychiatric disorders has been greatly enhanced with the advent of quantitative methods of analysis (QEEG). Using a QEEG methodology known as neurometrics we have identified distinctive electrophysiological profiles associated with different psychiatric disorders. With this method quantitative features are extracted from 2 minutes of artifact- free eyes closed resting EEG data, log transformed to obtain Gaussianity, age-regressed, and Z-transformed relative to population norms. Using small subsets of neurometric features, multiple stepwise discriminant analyses were used to construct mathematical classifier functions, the values of which are different for members of different a priori defined diagnostic groups. Using this approach, we have demonstrated high discriminant accuracy in independent replications separating many populations of psychiatric patients from normal as well as from each other, including major affective disorder, schizophrenia, dementia, alcoholism, and learning disabilities, as well as high accuracy of discrimination between known subtypes of depression (unipolar vs bipolar). The use of classification accuracy curves (CACs) which allow one to assess the sensitivity and specificity achieved by the discriminant functions is discussed. In addition, using cluster analysis, neurometric subtypes can be identified in several clinically homogenous populations. Preliminary results suggest that baseline membership in some neurometric subtypes may be highly correlated with response to treatment

Caveat

That very same discrimination analysis is able to derive a discriminant function on the criterion classes Male and Female based upon driver's license numbers data.

Caveat 2

Preliminary results often remain just that

What in the heck is Mind, preliminarily.

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2018 - 10:58pm PT
Reality is all about vibration and frequency, as pointed out by Nicola Tesla with implications and techniques long kept secret.

(Einstein was supported and promoted by the Rothschilds to obscure some of the core issues from the general scientific community.)


Light behaves as waves in 'empty' space, until bent by magnetic fields.

When the light waves are bent by magnetic fields, the interference between the bent light waves produces interference fringes between the conflicting wave patterns.

So that the nodes between interfering wave forms become what we understand to be particles of physical matter.

It seems what we perceive as the physical universe is constructed of frozen light ... analogous to a hologram.


Our minds can not directly perceive the physical universe, but depend upon our senses.

And our senses are not nearly good enough to build the internal visual world that we perceive as reality (i.e. The Matrix).

Our senses transfer electromagnetic signals along nerve bundles into our brain. These EM signals are transformed within the brain to guide the creation of our holographic world of thought that we relate to as reality.

Thus a complex pattern of light waves are conveyed electro-magnetically into our brains by our senses and translated into holographic realities within our minds. We relate to these holograms as if they are real ... which they are to us.


However there is no solid physical reality out there. There is light and magnetism and our perception of it as hologram patterns.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 15, 2018 - 06:29am PT
Thanks Tom,

your posts remind me HOW GRATEFUL I AM! to have both a general education and a physics, electrical engineering, and neuroscience education; otherwise I couldn't keep up!

Mind your nodes and frequencies. Damn those Rothchilds too! :)


...

Dang it, Dingus, I went for the coffee and you beat me to the post!!!


lol
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Feb 15, 2018 - 06:31am PT
The vibrations and frequencies (with long kept secrets by the Rothchilds) cause other vibrations and frequencies.

Reality is all about vibration and frequency, as pointed out by Nicola Tesla with implications and techniques long kept secret.

(Einstein was supported and promoted by the Rothschilds to obscure some of the core issues from the general scientific community.)

You claim this is reality. But then you assert

Our minds can not directly perceive the physical universe, but depend upon our senses.

And our senses are not nearly good enough to build the internal visual world that we perceive as reality (i.e. The Matrix).

Our senses transfer electromagnetic signals along nerve bundles into our brain. These EM signals are transformed within the brain to guide the creation of our holographic world of thought that we relate to as reality.

Thus a complex pattern of light waves are conveyed electro-magnetically into our brains by our senses and translated into holographic realities within our minds. We relate to these holograms as if they are real ... which they are to us.

Electromagnetic signals, you assert, are transmitted from our senses to our brain where they are used to induce holograms as if they are real.

My dear scientist, if the universe is as you say, vibrations and frequencies then how can anything within this universe also not be vibrations and frequences? I know for a fact, for example, "electromagnetic signals" are vibrations and frequencies.

Frankly what you wrote above is self-contradictory and poorly constructed, like some sort of fantasy hologram.

Now about these secret vibrations and frequencies, hidden by the Rothschilds, how is it you are aware of them? And while you're at it, how about you list out a few of these secret frequencies?

It seems to me, in a universe awash in vibrations and frequencies, our hard sciences are dedicated to their study. So if you could just point out these missing vibrations and frequencies, the one's you just claimed were hidden by the Rothschilds, then our sciences could take them into consideration as well, and study them.

How about it?

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Feb 15, 2018 - 06:39am PT
Don't get me wrong here Tom Cochrane, I dig the whole vibrations and frequencies riff. I get it that energy and matter are part of the same whole. I'm with you there. But so too are millions of others.

I also get that more simple frequencies can be beat together to get more complex pattern; our music is a perfect example. And that other, long wave frequencies are at play with the seasons, and in how life permeates, and the boom and bust cycles of populations, gold towns and stock market prices.

All vibrations and frequencies. I find it fascinating. So I am your eager student here
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 15, 2018 - 06:47am PT
Yeah. It's only the basis of radio, eg, or light and vision, or hearing, or quantum mechanics. Or physical chemistry. Or... That's all.

But I suspect this link between Einstein and the Rothchilds has long ago been destroyed?
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Feb 15, 2018 - 06:52am PT
Well I hope that Tom's secret frequencies have a little more meat on the bone than say, Werner's Wang Chung, apparently used to travel the universe is ages gone by. Maybe Tom has got the beef here. I'm listening....

DMT
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 15, 2018 - 08:31am PT
Secret frequencies, holograms, light waves, little green men ... you're still arguing over WHAT we perceive, are still one step away from perception itself, which does not necessarily hinge on our sense organs.

For example, get a pair of those noise canceling headphones that people use on construction sites, which make it so you hear nothing at all. Put those on. Lay down and pull a thin blanket over yourself. Put a dark cloth over your eyes. To a large extent, almost entirely, you have eliminated most all of your physical sense data, especially once you have relaxed for a bit and remain still. Now, settle into simply experiencing what is transpiring and being as alert as possible. At some point the duality between he who observes and just observing will melt away, and so does the distance, duality between you and it. So does the duality between awareness and what you are aware of. And so dies the illusion that "you only think you are perceiving" in whatever manner you are because thinking has already become background phenomenon. This is not "intuitive" exploration because you are not focused on some thing or phenomenon "out there" which you can be wrong about.

Then you stop and start working up rational models, not from bits and pieces, but rather from the whole mo fo.
WBraun

climber
Feb 15, 2018 - 08:37am PT
you're still arguing over WHAT we perceive, are still one step away from perception itself

They CAN"T do that.

They ARE soooo brainwashed with their boxed up limited selves in their tiny little limited sterile world.

If Pinker or Sam Harris says they will come running like monkeys and eat those bananas like they are god himself ......
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 15, 2018 - 08:43am PT
Or just use isolation tanks and do repeated 6-12 hour sessions in them to cut straight to the heart of the matter. However, what 'rational models' and general mo fo you then come away from the experience with is clearly quite subjective.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 15, 2018 - 09:58am PT
All vibrations and frequencies. I find it fascinating.

Me too, and I would elaborate on it, in private. The KGB, being more open minded than their
crankloon American counterparts, did lots of research into this ‘stuff’.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 15, 2018 - 10:27am PT
Or just use isolation tanks and do repeated 6-12 hour sessions in them to cut straight to the heart of the matter. However, what 'rational models' and general mo fo you then come away from the experience with is clearly quite subjective.



I warned about conflating. The two most common ones are conflating content with awareness, and subjective with objective.

For example, you have a subjective experience of sitting quietly and simply observing your experience without trying to define or describe or quantify it in any way. This is the exploration phase. It is the existential equal of "listening" to reality as opposed to yet defining it.

Later, when you start rationally interpreting your experience, you are building a cognitive and logical map to same. We can clearly see that the process of building said map, and the subjective territory that it seeks to explain, are not selfsame. That is, the map (interpretation) itself is an attempt to objectify subjectivity, and is not, itself, subjective.

In perceptual or mind terms, the former (exploration) is best carried out with a wide focus (note that in wide or panorama focus, you can't interpret). Then later, we narrow focus and our rational minds kick in.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 15, 2018 - 10:32am PT
Crikey, you really are an arrogant sob. There's no 'conflating' going on and you've whipped the poor content and map horses to bone powder. That and your commentary on 'proper' methods and what can and cannot be done now borders on just another mindlessly arrogant rant of [subjective] opinion.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Feb 15, 2018 - 10:59am PT
The Zionist secret society angle adds a wonderful insight into what is “on” your mind, Tom.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Feb 15, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
OP-
It seems what we perceive as the physical universe is constructed of frozen light ... analogous to a hologram.
would this include fire?
This is not to cross examine- just wanting you to elaborate. Frozen light refers to the trapping of photons. Our perception is based on an electrochemical signal produced by the reflection of light.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 15, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
Healje, if I was presenting this information by way of equations, I wouldn't be an "arrogant SOB." What you and others take issue with is not the particulars, but rather the tone most take with science, when it is applied to the subjective adventures. Of course I'm doing it on purpose.


But lets look closely at your claim that there is "no conflating going on with the following sentence (yours):

"Or just use isolation tanks and do repeated 6-12 hour sessions in them to cut straight to the heart of the matter. However, what 'rational models' and general mo fo you then come away from the experience with is clearly quite subjective."

"Rational models" are build by way of a cognitive exercise in which we try and objectify a given phenomenon. Workable models in this regards aim at being objectively accurate.

For example, I have the experience of climbing Crack of Doom. Later, reflecting on the experience, I attempt to cook up some rational models in terms of describing particular features on the route the belays, the difficulty of the crux bits, and finally chart out a map, in this case, a topo map.

That is, I "come away from the experience" of climbing Crack of Doom, start building my "rational models" by way of objectification, resulting at last in a topo map loaded with quantifications (ratings, etc).

Now you are free to say said topo ITSELF (an external object full of quantifications) is "clearly quite subjective" in terms of the ratings ascribed to the topo, though we can't possibly say that either the paper the top is written on, nor yet the data on the paper itself, IS subjective. Subjective in this case only refers to methods used for quantification, and some of those are not subjective.

If for example, I arrive at the belay at the marked mid point on my 70 meter rope, I know the pitch is basically 35 meters long. What's more, my approximation of the grade might be based on a norm derived from 1,000s of other routes I have experienced. Though peer review we arrive at a rating that is not strictly subjective.

What is also conflated ("combining two or more ideas into one") in your rant is the business of inductive and deductive reasoning, which more accurately captures what I believe you are driving at.

Either way, if you want to make a point about this slippery slope, it has little chance of sticking unless it is very specific and logically coherent. Otherwise the key stuff gets conflated and its just one big gumbo. The slipshod way you have it, it is impossible to derive any objective data from subjective experience itself, which is partially true about WHAT we experience, but not at all true about perception itself. It's just that the methods of building our rational model are primarily inductive.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Feb 15, 2018 - 02:56pm PT
you're still arguing over WHAT we perceive, are still one step away from perception itself, which does not necessarily hinge on our sense organs.


Your noise-cancellation blanket-over scenario does not take into account that your perception is affected by your memories. If you had no sense organs from the moment of your birth, what would your perception be like? Would it be like the isolation tank?

It is a trick question.

You are yourself still working with bits and pieces, just like the rest of us. However, you could improve on how you put those bits and pieces together.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2018 - 03:20pm PT
Hey, folks, I really appreciate all of your contributions to this discussion!

I didn't start this thread in order to set myself up as a resident expert on these subjects. Rather to simply express my high level of interest. I have done quite a lot of study of a wide range of materials in attempts to improve my understanding of personal experiences. Your experiences may differ! LOL

One of the best things about my life has been the amazing people I have come to know and who have become friends and colleagues. From my perspective, many of my friends are much more intelligent than me. I have been following the 'What is mind?' thread with fascinated respect. So I was just hoping this thread could explore a bit further beyond the mechanics of the physiology of the brain/mind system, and that does seem to be happening here.

When I have been making a statement in this thread with some apparent degree of certainty, it represents my attempt to understand and paraphrase writings from scientists and philosophers with way more knowledge, research, and credentials than myself. Clearly this is challenging, for various obvious reasons.

There are two domains of knowledge that I have been avoiding bringing into this thread. One is material that I think may have merit, but hasn't been assimilated into my world view, sometimes labeled 'woo woo'. The second is material that I believe to be relevant, but is too controversial and distracting from the conversation I'm hoping to continue here...sometimes labeled 'conspiracy theories'. I am not trying to make these a restriction for you, but from my perspective these could derail this discussion.

I am also not trying to judge your world view or levels of awareness, just that I am interested. I am trying to lay out the map and modes of transportation and improve my understanding of such things

Once aspect that is very clear to me is that all I have managed to learn in a lifetime dedicated to my 'individually directed study program' is a small fraction of the wider domain that I have not yet been able to study or assimilate into my own domain of supposed understanding. So I hoped this thread might catch the attention of some of you to join a conversation that has been going on between myself and my shadow. So thank you very much for participating!
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
OP-
It seems what we perceive as the physical universe is constructed of frozen light ... analogous to a hologram.
would this include fire?

Yes.

To the extent that I think I understand such things.

The simple [no doubt over simplified view] is that the entire material universe consists of complex vibration patterns in the ether [substitute your preferred wording flavor]. So anything material, including fire or any other effect observable as part of the material universe, is included in this cosmological concept.

So the material universe with a loud allegorical clang, is contriving to keep me honest in my 'expanded perceptions' of all this. Looking out the window past my computer is my view into dense forest currently with a flock of chickadees and juncos flitting about and competing for my bird feeder and suet block.

And yesterday I stood on a bluff ten feet above a small clear pond, reflecting light from the sky, dropping rocks into it ... fascinating to watch the concentric rings spread out from the center, spreading to the rocky shore and reflecting back on themselves clear across the pond and once again back on itself, from all sides except where the blackberry thicket absorbs all the ripples on one side ... and water splashed up falling down and starting other rings on top of the main rings... on and on ... and then a gust of wind adds to the patterns ...

So my thinking [not exactly my own original thinking] is that what we perceive as the material universe is one layer of a multi-layer construct, sort of like layers of an onion.

when you light a proper camp fire, you scratch a match, use it to light a little tinder bundle, which lights some kindling, which lights some small firewood, and which heats up and eventually lights the larger logs of your camp fire.

This brings to mind how you fire off the space shuttle booster rockets. I went through an intensive course at ATK in Brigham City, Utah on how these huge booster rockets are constructed and activated. So it starts with a little squib inside a tiny match box with a scattering of what look just like the heads of stick matches. The bottom of this tiny match box has a grid of holes that are blocked off by a thin metal plate that is pulled out by the close-out crew as the last step on their checklist just before they race to the safety of a bunker away from the launch tower. Once the main engines are cooking nicely, the booster squibs are fired [heaven help the crew if one booster fires and the other one doesn't!!] ... the match heads light up and squirt a little fire down into a little rocket engine about the size of a small jam jar ... which fires up and squirts a jet of fire down into another rocket engine about the size of a trash can ... which shoots a big jet of fire igniting the 150 ft length of the main booster rockets and the mechanical hold downs release this whole nightmare contraption which will now hopefully be in orbit in about 9.5 minutes with a crew of our friends sitting on top of it...allowing those familiar with this whole ridiculous process to start breathing again...

An H-bomb ignition sequence is all too similar ... a computer chip activated squib(s) smaller than a pencil erase ignites some high explosive fireworks in a quart jar, compressing a fist sized lump of fissionable material (A-bomb), creating the environment for activation of a hall-of-mirrors of fusionable material (H-bomb)....not giving out any secrets...LOL...

So back to our oversimplified material universe ... a seed of (fractal geometry) thought form drops into a sea of (created) energy and sets off a process sort of like how a lake freezes up on a cold night ...

Except this seems to be again in a sequence of layers such as the levels of awareness referenced above. Another representation of this that I am aware of but haven't assimilated into my understanding, says there is the physical layer, the etheric layer, the astral layer, the mental layer, and then a causal layer. However it is represented, there do seem to be layers to all of this ..

Another representation might be the classical concept of ether, then a layer of electro-magnetic-gravitic vibrations, then the fourier transformation creating the 'holographic universe' in our minds.

...not trying to give anyone vertigo ...

Ok, ok ... i did say this was dramatically oversimplified ...

Oh ... and to confirm any of this requires enhanced levels of awareness ... and as others have pointed out so eloquently ... a mind transmitting thoughts is not listening ... a very aware mind is a very quiet mind ...
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