The problem with boycotting Utah, Etc

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Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 20, 2018 - 01:52pm PT
I applaud Patagonia, and other companies re OR, and the subsequent, consequent, decision to move the show out of Utah. That is a responsible statement that hurts the extraction monkeys responsible for the situation being protested, where they feel in the most in their wallet.

However, the people who think they are doing the same thing by boycotting (abandoning) the natural wonder of this state, seemingly in "protest" are doing just the opposite, and aligning themselves with the "scrappers and rappers" and monument Shrinkers.

I don't think that's their intention.

"But we can climb in other states that respect the land more" have you seen the open pit mining in Western Colorado? Ever climb in Kentucky? Did you ever ever climb at the "Carefree Boulder pile" in Arizona, now a golf course? Do you really think this is a problem confined to the state of Utah? This is an ongoing problem pretty much Everywhere there is climbable rock. And we need to address it in every one of those contentious locales.

Giving up on the climbing and outdoor opportunities in Utah especially southern Utah, is throwing a bone to the developers of all stripes. It's showing that you don't care, any more than they do.

In the recent 'NPS Trojan horse' thread, that seems to have been axed, I took 510bforme to task, when he said that he personally would boycott Utah, apparently to help the situation here.
Nothing could be farther from the truth! Such moves are misguided and not thought through.

"why would I spend money in a state that has policies I disagree with?
Jay, I know you live there, but you are not being objective."

Do you know of any states that don't have polices you disagree with? I don't.


I'm being Very objective. Boycotting the state by those who have a stake in being involved in the value and beauty here, is showing the politicos, developers and administration that you don't care, and on the contrary, throw them the keys to theland, because you don't value it.

This does not help in the struggle we have to maintain what we have got here. Quite the contrary. It actually reinforces the extractive cause.

Boycotts can be useful, productive and powerful. But think through who you need to boycott and who you want to "punish."

Giving away the best crack climbing in the world is not an environmental advancement.. Come to Utah, cherish what we share here, and remain politically active!
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 20, 2018 - 01:55pm PT
Jay, dude, we all know that UT is culturally flatlined, the climbing is 100% tapped out, and that the Kennecott pit is really just because Utahns use copper.




Bullshit aside, IMO you are spot-on. Boycotting UT is not going to get things done. Boycotting or reasonably increasing tax and royalty on goods extracted from public lands, on the other hand...

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
Yup, the need is to put the breaks and restrictions on the extractors. Not to give up and serve them up what they want without a fight.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 20, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
We all end up paying for the diminished air quality, etc., one way or another. Why not just pay a little extra cash at the pump to subsidize more responsible extraction and exploitation of the resources that we all use?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
Bingo
Psilocyborg

climber
Jan 20, 2018 - 02:10pm PT
Unfortunately, most people are really really stupid.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jan 20, 2018 - 02:26pm PT
That's why I spent a week in Capitol Reef in November 2017.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 20, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
Yeah, I'm not boycotting Utah, but there's a lot to hate, and Utah's government by right wing-nuts, is not at all environmentally friendly

I wouldn't be surprised if they paid a stipend to Rio Tinto Corp. for enhancing SLC's sunsets with their Kennecot smelter, about 20 miles west of the city.

Kennecott's copper mine concentrators, power plant and smelter is the leading facility for toxic releases in the state of Utah, according to a 2017 report by the US Environmental Protection Agency.[15] The company's combined operations are believed to account for 3.5 percent of Salt Lake Valley's air pollution, according to Utah Department of Air Quality statistics.[16] Editorialists continue to criticize Kennecott for the amount of lead the smelter puts into the air each year: 6,250 pounds.[17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennecott_Utah_Copper
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 20, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
Giving away the best crack climbing in the world is not an environmental advancement..

You're right, it's not an environmental advancement, it's a message...
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 20, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
I'm pretty sure Jason Chafetz emits more toxic bullshit than Kennecott, Fritz. :-)



blanket boycotting UT hurts the livelihood of small cool companies like Back of Beyond and righteous dudes like Jaybro. kind of a shitty message to send to the folks out there standing for, what they stand on, seems to me
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
LOL, this whole exercise in virtue signaling is a riot. I don't even understand why so-called climbers are for the monument, let alone blindly condone the unprecedented 1.35 million acre land grab in the name of environmentalism. Does the federal government have a good track record in this regard? All they seem to do is pave roads and increase traffic in order to make themselves look more important, environment be damned.

I didn't even know about Patagonia's hissy fit until now, and I highly doubt many outside the "outdoorsy" category would even know it was a company, or even a place.

It smells like a partisan bitchfest to me.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 20, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
you don't spend a lot of time in the area do you Ballo?
Dave

Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
Jan 20, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
"Yup, the need is to put the breaks and restrictions on the extractors."

Mining is probably the most heavily regulated industry in the country.



"Kennecott's copper mine concentrators, power plant and smelter is the leading facility for toxic releases in the state of Utah, according to a 2017 report by the US Environmental Protection Agency.[15] The company's combined operations are believed to account for 3.5 percent of Salt Lake Valley's air pollution, according to Utah Department of Air Quality statistics.[16] Editorialists continue to criticize Kennecott for the amount of lead the smelter puts into the air each year: 6,250 pounds.[17]"

TRI is deeply flawed and the data asked for ever year change.

Considering the amount of material put into the smelter, a car's worth of material coming out in a year, could be worse.

What comes out of your tailpipe? Oh, yeah, its not reported....
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
If we outdoors recers avoid Utah, that makes it just that much easier to for the outdoor wreckers to do their work.

But someone like a major trade show avoiding it sends a message. Of course, if the money the trade show brings in is small in comparison to the money that extracting does..... not going to mean much to the people whose job it is is to get money coming into the state.

Any idea what the numbers are? Comparing outdoor rec tourism and related to extracting?
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
you don't spend a lot of time in the area do you Ballo?

What's a lot of time? I've spent many falls in the area climbing towers and at Indian Creek.

Maybe you should read some of the more thoughtful comments to Patagonia's grandstanding:

http://disq.us/p/1g2ut56
http://disq.us/p/1fcdwsf

Then we have a lot of these companies throwing money at the DNC, but not necessarily because they're environmentalists, but do enjoy green:

http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2016/12/20/wreckreation-oligarchs/

There wasn't a problem the Monument solved. Most of the people supporting it are just partisans who are being hysterical. Look at the emotional posts throwing invectives like "climate deniers". What a circus
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
Furthermore making it a federal monument just builds another industry on the eroding sea scape that is federal solvency. Look at the craziness that happened during the last shutdown in Utah. Why make these parks federal?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 20, 2018 - 05:16pm PT
so you have spent a "few falls" out here but you're unfamiliar with gayle Ruzicka...


they were not parks to begin with and they were already federal...
steve s

Trad climber
eldo
Jan 20, 2018 - 06:03pm PT
Wait. What? Climbers are boycotting Utah ?? Where the heck are the multitudes going then ?
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Jan 20, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
Can’t boycott the state I live in, but it sure is fun to watch places like Ferron and Monticello drying up while I blow right through them without spending a dime. Even better if I can run up there costs in the process(always be sure to leave your trash, top off your water, anything to drive up costs while contributing nothing, like they do to the rest of the state).

As for monuments not solving a problem, go talk to the Redd family (scumbag Dr Jim, not the honorable Heidi and her gang) about why he decided to off himself rather talk to the feds. I’m sure he was just enjoying carefree walks in the ruins and he untimely death was purely related to SAD.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 20, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
watch it there trashman, that sounds awfully seditious. at least for Landfill County.

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