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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 15, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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If the good mayor was really interested in safety he would see to it that the antiquated
Midi-Helbronner telepherique gets replaced with a design less than 60 years old, n’est ce pas?
The week after I was there in August 2016 there was almost a major tragedy with the exact
scenario that occurred near Grenoble about 30 years ago. But stupid hikers/climbers are
much easier (and cheaper) low-hanging fruit for our attention whore maire.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 15, 2018 - 09:13am PT
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Degaine, thanks for real perspectives on the situation.
It is, as you say, impossible not to at least subconsciously factor in the availability of help when deciding what risks are appropriate. But the fact that, perhaps at great expense and considerable risk to others, we can be extricated from the results of bad luck or bad judgement surely rattles the foundations of mountaineering as a purely individual enterprise that utilizes just experience and skill against the dangers of the mountains.
But in case there is any confusion on the matter, I think the mayor's regulations are dumb, probably only enforceable after a rescue has taken place, and unlikely to make a noticeable dent in the accident rate.
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Michael Browder
Mountain climber
Chamonix, France (Oregon originally)
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Jan 15, 2018 - 12:41pm PT
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I think the thing to realize about the French is that they have regulations for everything. It's just that NOBODY follows them including the French. This includes skiing off piste. There is no freedom here except what everybody takes.
They certainly don't follow U.S. regulations when visiting. I remember one time attending a slide show presentation about a disabled person climbing El Cap when the park was closed due to Congress not authorizing funding. She was in the company of a French gendarme whose very words were, "Sometimes one has to break the law." I've also seen advertisements in Snells catalogue of guides guiding in Yosemite or on Denali. You know they weren't part of a concessionaire.
The thing about Jornet, is it's not the first time he's got into trouble in the Mont Blanc massive going 'light and fast'....
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Degaine
climber
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Jan 15, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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@Reilly,
FYI - the Midi-Hellbronner gondola is within Chamonix's city limits and not Saint-Gervais, so it's the town of Chamonix's problem (actually it's the Compagnie du Mont-Blanc's problem since they have the concessions contract to run the lifts).
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Degaine
climber
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Jan 15, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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@Rgold,
Like Yosemite, most of the PGHM's rescues in Chamonix are hikers and not climbers/mountaineers. In the winter, most rescues are due to knee injuries or collisions at one of the ski areas.
In spite of the PGHM, plenty of people still unfortunately perish in the Mont-Blanc Range every year, whether falling into crevasses, buried in an avalanche, rockfall, etc.
However, in France, a lot more emphasis is placed on personal responsibility when it comes to hiking, climbing, backcountry skiing, etc. Jurisprudence reflects this.
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Degaine
climber
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Jan 15, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
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@Michael Browder,
Honest question, when was the other time that Kilian got into trouble in the Mont-Blanc Range?
As far as regulations in France go, off-piste skiing is allowed, and unless patrol did not do their job and an avalanche comes tumbling down onto an open groomed run, jurisprudence clearly demonstrates that it is the individual's responsibility (and not the ski area's) to move safely through the mountains.
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GuapoVino
climber
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Aug 15, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
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River runners have had to adhere to a list of required items for years if they want to paddle down riviers controlled by the NPS, BLM or USFS. Sometimes, if it's in the middle of nowhere and isn't a very popular river, no one is there to check you or ask questions and it's on the honor system. Sometimes they just ask if you're familiar with the regs and if you have everything. Some times there is a mandatory equipment check by a ranger at the put-in.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Aug 15, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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If you climb in the domain of SAR then you must submit to regulation.
If you want the mountain to be dangerous, disband SAR.
Dingus, this is really a sign in Disneyland?
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perswig
climber
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Aug 15, 2018 - 04:15pm PT
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A point of theology, I guess. The NY Times quotes a New York State Police sergeant who works as a liason officer with the Amish and Mennonite communities on traffic safety issues. He says that some think the orange color signifies the devil or hell fire.
I'm pretty sure Maine has an exemption from the 'hunter orange' requirement during deer season for certain religious beliefs.
You pays your money and takes your chances...
Dale
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